Walls Closing In

Georgia grand Jury. So here's where we are. Donald Trump has so many fucking cases against him right now. But the issue that we are having, and the issue that has always been with the Trumps, is that while they are sued numerous amounts of times, they were never really convicted of anything. And that's the problem. And this is how when he was, you know, the King of New York in the eighties and the early nineties, why Donald Trump had the name teflon Don because nothing ever stuck.

He was like the fucking mobster that you always tried to pin the murders on, but you would turn up

with nobody. And that's the thing is that Donald Trump I believe that he entered into the presidency with the belief that he knew that he was hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, that he could use the presidency as a way to hustle, right as the grifter that he is, which he did a monument's clause what, and that he also could use it as cover for all of the cases and the trials and the things that people had said. I mean, remember, folks, like just go

back in your mind. Donald Trump has over twenty women that have accused him of sexual assault and or harassment. Right, Donald Trump has a numerous amounts of photos with Jeffrey Epstein and Jesse Elaine. Right, Maxwell, you know who this man is. You know that the Trump Foundation and University was shut down by Attorney General Letitia James, new York Attorney General, right because of fraud. And so the investigation

that continues in New York is on fraud. Now moving down the line in the Trump shell businesses to Trump organization as a whole. But that case is a civil case, and Glen will walk us through obviously, the difference between civil charges that could possibly be brought and again they have yet to happen. But what was said out of the AG's office is that there is mount team right quotes, air quotes, mounting evidence that there was fraud that has

happened and was the norm for the Trump organization. In a civil case though there's no jail time. But the recent movements down in Georgia by Georgia A. G. Willis is different because we're actually talking about criminal charges. And the reason why she has now asked for there to be a special grand jury called in is because Georgia law does not allow for regular grand juries to be able to authorize subpoenas with any force. And what do

we know about Trump and company. They don't give a fuck about subpoenas, right, They don't care about congressional subpoenas. And unless it's coming down from the Department of Justice, which Glen will tell us about, then there really are no teeth to these subpoenas and so they can just shrug and say, oh, I didn't see it, maybe it went to spam. Right. The interesting thing though about the Georgia case is that Trump is caught on audio again.

Can you find me eleven thousand seven hundred and eighty six votes. I mean, you do not have to be a rocket scientist to be able to infer what the intent was there, right, Like, Oh, I wonder what he meant by that, Just like I wonder what Donald Trump meant on January in January before the January sixth insurrection when he said that January sixth was going to be wild.

I wonder what he meant by that when he was sitting around for a hundred and eighty seven minutes while police officers were brutalized, right while after six people end

up dead, and does nothing right? Does nothing? We know that his spawn, Ivanka Trump was asked right because apparently the one six Committee, the one six Commission in the House is still in the vein of like playing nice and asking right for information as opposed to recognizing again who these people are and treating them like the criminals we know them to be. So Ivanka Trump is going to do what she's been taught her whole life. Sidestep

the law. Play just really close to the margins and if you go over, well, you're a Trump and it'll be covered up. Anyway, When I say that the walls are closing in I hope to God that they are. But what I will add is that this Department of Justice, I don't give a fuck about what press conferences Merritt Garland wants to hold. He the man has no spine,

he has no teeth. Tell me why with the walking in, with the Mulla report, just sitting on your desk, right, and the ability to go after the ten ways in which he laid out that this administration obstructed justice. How there is no parallel fucking case being brought by the Department of Justice which actually can enforce subpoenas that if you don't show up right, you are thrown in jail.

I mean, if you are a fan of law and order, and again that's the only place that I get my legal degree from, then you always see like sell bench warrants here and people being thrown in jail. But as we see, if you are wealthy, if you are white, if you are male and well connected, then you are in fact above the law all of the things right that the Democratic Party has been saying, and the Commission has said, and you've heard from other people, and we

heard Merritt Garland a couple of weeks ago. Nobody is above the law. Well, then prove it, prove that nobody is above the law with a mountain of evidence that you have in front of you, knowing that the administration was crooked, knowing that Donald Trump is a fraud and a thief and a grifter, knowing all of those things

to be true. Again, where is the case? Right? And Glenn for the first time will also say that his feelings about the Department of Justice and giving them more and more time more in or our room is starting

to frustrate him. And these are colleagues and friends. So you think to yourself, if folks like us who are engaged on a day to day basis and actually have some skin in the game here because politics is our work and want to uphold democracy and do our part to do so, and we are feeling spent, We are feeling like we are over right the administration over the Department of Justice. How do you think that regular Americans

are feeling? Right? You know, I asked at the end of last week on social media, and I've asked all of you here what is the grade that you would give to the Biden administration? And I include the Department of Justice in there, right, because Biden appointed Merrick Garland. I initially thought that it was as a big fu to Mitch McConnell and the Republicans, like Meerka is going to get in here somewhere, right, and we knew that

the confirmation would go relatively smooth. But then now I look around and I'm just like, you could have chosen anybody, anybody with some force, with some grit, to be your age to show that you would go after the former president because we need to close every single loophole that Trump was able to worm his way through to protect

our democracy. This isn't a partisan attack. This is that wow, you really essentially, I didn't know until Donald Trump's refusal to show his taxes that that wasn't part of the law. That was just a political norm that every single president all forty four before him abided by Donald Trump is just like, well, if it's not the law, and even if it is, I'm going to get my fucking you know, crackerjack box of lawyers to slow walk this so that I don't ever have to show over my papers. Well,

the only people that do that are criminals. But we allowed that to slide. That was one of the first initial political norms that we allowed Donald Trump to disrupt and that was before he was president of the United States. Every other candidate for the Republican Party had shown their taxes,

but Donald Trump. So again, what does that say about our ability to just continue to sweep things under the rug and then turn around and realize that we have Mount Everest in front of us, and now the Department of Justice is just like oooh, the climb team seems too steep, seems like too much work to even get to base camp. So we might as well just not bother. We'll just go after the low level folks at the bottom, and then that should satisfied the masses. Well, guess what

it fucking does not. We are not satisfied by the three years over here for insurrectionists, or a couple of months over there, or just a slap on the wrist, and oh, I hope you don't do this again as they're building up their arsenals. Folks, we have nine months

roughly right give or take until midterm elections. And again, if you look at what people are saying about the Biden administration, even Woke aff Nation, if we were to take the average of the grades that people are throwing out this administration would get what I offered on Woke Wednesday and on here, which is a D plus. A

D plus C minus is what folks are saying. So if that is really how the American people feel, right and these are progressives folks like you and I, If they're saying D plus C minus, then what about those people who are not engaged on a day to day basis? What do you think they think about this administration? So how does that look as we head into midterm elections when Democrats literally have nothing to run on. I mean, you listen to you listened last week to you know,

Principal Deputy White House Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre. You listen to her offer what she believes are some of the high points of the administration. And I said to her, but the American public, their memories are real short. So if you're talking about a COVID relief package that you were able to push through in January twenty twenty one, you think anybody is remembering that come November of twenty twenty two, Probably not, because America is always looking at

what have you done for me lately? And we know that the game is always stacked against the party of the sitting president. So they're not doing themselves any favors right now, and this is the problem that we are facing. And so coming up next, Glenn will walk us through the difference in these two major cases that are coming down and what the timeline he believes that we are going to be working with over the course of the next several months, God forbid the next couple of years,

which I believe that we actually do not have. We are running out of time because as soon as Republicans sweep in the midterm elections, all of this commission work, all of this digging is going to grind to a halt, and we are going to see frivolous hearing after frivolous hearing at seven pm Eastern every single day to make Joe Biden and the Biden administration look as crooked as the Trump organization actually is. So folks, that conversation is

coming up next. Folks. You know that I am always so grateful when we have our friend MSNBC legal analyst and the host of Justice Matters, Glenn Kirshner, join us to talk our way through the mess that is going

on in Trump's world. The other day, Hailey Jackson put up a slide that had to be in such small font on MSNBC of all of the infractions because there are so many, tell us what's happening in Georgia, because you offered reading of the tea leaves last week to tell us what was what was going to be coming up. Now we have an order for a special grand jury. What does that mean? Daniellis is a mess and we're all in this mess together, you know, Georgia. I think it's a good news story, only one of a few

good news stories in the last week or two. But so, Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis has been investigating this case for some time. Presumably she's been investigating it with a regular grand jury in Georgia. The quirk about Georgia grand jury practices the regular grand jury doesn't have the subpoena power, so apparently, and I see parallels between how the House Select Committee has been conducting its investigation and what we're now learning in Georgia, and I'll talk about

those in a minute. But she has applied to the Chief Judge of the Fulton County Superior Court asking that a special grand jury being paneled so she can issue enforceable subpoenas. Why because not everybody has been cooperating voluntarily with her investigation. Doesn't that sound a lot like what's going on in Washington? The House Select Committee has interviewed, has taken testimony from, and received evidence from more than

four hundred witnesses. Those are the people who are voluntarily cooperating. Then there are a handful of people who won't. Those are the members of the cover up Caucus, right. That's Jim Jordan, oct Perry and Mark Meadows and Steve Bannon, and hopefully we'll talk about Ivanka in a few minutes and whether she's going to want to join the cover

up Caucus. So, just as lots of people have been cooperating with the House Select Committee investigation, but some have not, I think Fannie Willis is experiencing the same thing in Georgia, which is why she finally said, now I need a special grand jury so I can start banging out people with subpoenas and forcing them to testify. So it's a good step forward, and I am hoping that Fannie Willis is closer to an indictment than she is being on the front end of her investigation because we all heard

the criminal phone call that Donald Trump made. Just give me one more vote them I need to win and corruptly declare me the winner of the Georgia state election. So the Georgia story is a good news story and a good development this week. So let's you know, because thankful, thanks to you, the listeners of woke f have their uh you know, minors in law right in Trump law,

in Trump indictments. What is the difference? Like, what what is it that we are looking for and hearing the rumblings about with Tish James ag in New York where I am, and what it is that a G. Willis is looking for? So you just brought up the fact that we're going back to the give me another vote, right, which sounds a lot like Zelensky do me a favor though, which sounds a lot like how Trump has operated for his entire life. So what are these two parallel tracks

that are being run? And I and I will would be remiss if I did not recognize that it is black women that are leading the charge in these two different states to get justice right for Georgia and for New York in the ways in which Donald Trump and his criminal enterprises have been able to maneuver around these places. What's the difference between what is happening in New York

what is happening in Georgia? And do you think Donald Trump right now is getting more and more nervous He should be because the investigative circle is tightening around him. That is indisputable. That's a matter of fact, I would contend. So to your question, what's going on in New York. Tis James Attorney General's Office is a civil investigation into potential fraud by the Trump organization, including by Donald Trump, Ivanka,

Eric and Don Junior. And we somewhat deliciously saw in a court filing, which was appropriate because the Trumps are fighting in court the subpoenas that they've been served with to testify in that fraud investigation civil investor stigation. So nobody will ever go to jail in connection with Tiss James investigation. That's civil fraud. She could sue, she could recover damages on behalf of the state of New York, and she could shut down the Trump organization, but that's civil,

not criminal. So she disclosed in that litigation that well, when Eric Trump fought the subpoena that she served on him, lost that fight and was forced to sit for a deposition. He invoked this Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination more than five hundred times. Now, let's set aside the yeah, more than five hundred times, that's in the court filing. Let's set aside the comedic value of Donald Trump saying, now, apparently this applies to his son. Only mobsters plead the Fifth.

The really important thing for us to remember is when you invoke the Fifth you have an absolute constitutional right under the Fifth Amendment against self incrimination. And I will fight for your right to do that, regard hardless of how cruddy you are. But when you do it in a criminal case, it can't be held against you. In

a civil case it can. So when and if this case goes to trial, when I predict when, not If Tish James drops a big old civil suit on Donald Trump and his organization, they will be able to take those five hundred invocations of the Fifth Amendment by Eric, and they will be able to present it to the civil grand jury. And the civil law is such that the judge will instruct the civil jury. You can take Eric's invocation of his fifth amend privilege against self incrimination

into account in the evidence. You can draw adverse inferences against him based on it, and you can use it as a basis as part of your verdict and your judgment against Eric and perhaps by extension, the Trump organization, depending on how the case is handled. So that is what Tish James is doing ugly consequential, but it's civil not criminal. What Fannie Willis is doing is even more consequential because it's criminal and people could go to prison.

So let's talk for a moment, because what Tish James is doing sounds a lot like how we were able to shut down Trump University, right and Trump Foundation. This is a similar situation in which they were able to uncover the fact that the Trump Foundation and the university were basically swindling people, right, Like, they were basically swindling folks using the university and the foundation as some type of front right to be able to funnel in money.

So that was shut down. Was there a fine associated with that, like did they have to pay back the people who they swindled out of their money or was it the big aha with Trump? You know, was just

shutting it down. So I asked that because I'm like with if it's the same road that we're walking down in New York with the Trump organization is the biggest issue just being shut down, but they can pop up with another name in another place, or are they going to have to owe back back fees, back taxes, back whatever financial gains that they had, they'll have to give

it back. So I don't know the answer with respect of the Trump University case, how that ended up and what happened beyond Trump University being shut down put out a business, And I don't want to guess. What I will say is ordinarily in those kind of civil suits, it's all about the damages. So you have to pay back to the victims whatever fraudulent money you took from them.

You may have to pay fines and penalties, There may be back taxes, there may be court costs, There may be any number of financial implications as a result of those kind of kind of cases. So yes, I assume that will be part and parcel of whatever civil suit Tiss James ends upbringing. But remember she hasn't filed the civil suit yet against the Trump organization. She's investigating it. That's why she's issued Penis to Eric that one is behind us now, to Trump, to Ivanka, to Don Junior.

And that signals to me that she's at the very end of her civil investigation, because you don't go at the targets until the very end, when you have all of the other evidence you can confront them with when they are compelled to sit for a deposition. And it is at that point she'll probably drop a big old fraud lawsuit on Trump and his organization. What is the likelihood that the fraud right would turn into the fraud in New York could possibly turn into also a criminal investigation,

like isn't fraud and committing it like an actual crime? Yes? So let's and let's remember the Manhattan District Attorney who was Sivance and it's now Alvin Bragg who has taken over, and I suspect he's going to do even better work than Sivance. I was not all that impressed with Sivance's tenure, given some of what we learned about how he dealt with Trump and the organization. But there already is a

criminal prosecution going hunt of the Trump organization. Alan Weislberg, the chief financial officer, and I suspect there are more indictments to drop in that case. And remember there is a piece of the investigation involving the civil fraud that is partnered up with the Manhattan DA's criminal probe, which is a blessing and a curse. It's good because you know, two organizations are better than one when you're attacking large

institutional organizational crime and fraud. But it does give Trump a little bit of a challenge to make against the civil subpoenas, saying, wait a minute, this is just a ruse to try to get me under oath and then use it against me in the criminal prosecution. Because the AG's office is even working with the Manhattan DA's office in that way. That's a that's an allegation that will

ultimately be rejected. And I predict these subpoenas will be enforced and Don and Don Junior, Ivanka and Trump will have to sit for these depositions. What I also predict is they will all invoke the fifth and him at right against self incrimination, just like Eric did. This is just wild to me. So going back to Georgia, now

m willis asked for a special grand jury. What is the timeline of the ask the approval, then we go through the process I'm assuming of putting together a grand jury, So just quickly walk us through that, and then we'll transition to the one six commission. But I you know, it's always grand jury, special grand jury. What are these people? Well? Who are these people? How do we go about them? And how long that processes? Is it six weeks up

they're sitting? Is it twelve? And remember we had a special grand jury impaneled in New York the district at twenty two, But that was because the grand juries in New York only sit for about four weeks and they needed consistency, so they asked for a six month long

special grand jury. That was more about timing than it was about the authority that that grand jury has to issue subpoenas or cott issue subpoenis so down in Georgia, I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of Georgia grand jury procedure, because all fifty states have their own procedures when it comes to grand juries. I could tell you generally how it happens. If you apply to the chief judge to impanel a special grand jury, the

chief Judge will act on that very quickly. I mean it literally could be within a day or a week, because there's no legal debate or litigation that has to go on. It is a one sided request, what we would call an ex parte request by the prosecutor saying I need this, and here's why witnesses are not voluntarily cooperating, and I need to compel their testimony with grand jury subpoenis. So I predict the judgual act and very likely grant the request to impanel this grand jury. Then they will

send out jury notices. That's a process that can take a few weeks before they can get Now, they probably have standing grand jury notices that have already been sent out for other cases, for trials, or for other grand jury matters, So all of this can be done pretty quickly. I would say within thirty days or maybe less, you'll have that grand jury sitting taking testimony. Then the question

becomes how long does the grand jury investigation take? That depends on how many witnesses have refused to voluntarily take part in Fannie Willis's investigation. If it's only I mean, think about let's go back to the parallel, the one sixth committee. I know we're going there in a minute, four hundred witnesses have cooperated, half a dozen have thumbed their noses at congressional subpoenas, the Meadows, the Jordan's, the Perrys.

So if there is a parallel between how few witnesses in Georgia have told Fannie Willis, take a flying leap, I'm not coming in, then they can actually move through that pretty quickly. Okay, if I'm Donald Trump, If you're Donald Trump right now, right, this announcement comes out midweek on top of tissue James saying, there's a lot of evidence we're going to move into Ivanka Trump now being asked, not subpoenaed by the one six Commission, but asked to

come in for questioning. How nervous am I? On a scale of one to ten if I'm Trump, Trump's lawyers and circle, if you're paying attention to what's going on, you're getting more nervous by the day. This investigative circle is tightening. You know now what Ivanka will end up doing in response to this request for voluntary cooperation. I suspect she'll decline and then she'll be subpoenaed. The important thing for people to remember is there's no daddy daughter

legal privilege. Right, sure, there's an executive privilege, doctor patient privilege, attorney client privilege, priest parishioner privilege, there's a spousal privilege. There's no daddy daughter privilege. So she can be compelled to testify. The question becomes, what will she do when push comes to shove. She undoubtedly has information relevant to the one six Committees investigation. I suspect, I strongly suspect

she has information that is incriminating of her father. Why because we know she was part of the inner circle during the capital attack. There are reports that she was in the room talking with him, listening to what he had to say. When we investigate crime and we need to prove criminal offenses, there are two things that we have to prove. A criminal act and corrupt intent. Criminal intent guilty, men's ray a state of mind. Now, ordinarily that's not hard to do. Why because we infer intent

from conduct. Donald Trump's conduct is criminal, we can infer his intent was criminal. Give me three hours in front of a grand a trial jury in DC, and I'm pretty darn sure I could convince them of Donald Trump's crimes.

Hopefully we get there someday so, but what Ivanka can provide is she can say I was in the room while Daddy was watching TV watching officers be assaulted property and his angry mob hunting for elected officials, and I said, Dad, you've got to put a stop to this, and he said, A B NC, A B and C is going to be direct evidence of his intent, probably his criminal intent, because we know he didn't call off the attack for

more than three hours after Mark Meadows said not. Mark Kevin McCarthy said, I told him about it at the very beginning, so he knew even if he wasn't watching it on TV, which he was. So Ivanka has a question to ask herself, Danielle, and I assume you and I know what the answer will be. But the question is do I want to be a patriot? Do I want to provide relevant, accurate, truthful information to the House Select Committee about what my father did on January sixth?

Or do I want to cover up his crimes? Do I want to refuse to provide this information? Do I want to become yet another member of the cover up club together with Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan, Scott Perry, and Steve Bannon. It's a small club. It's not a terribly elite club. But you know, we have a term for what these people have decided to do, which is hide in criminating information about the conduct of another. It's called a cover up. Have these people learned nothing of the

lessons of Watergate. If the crime don't get you, the cover up will. And I want the Department of Justice to go after Trump and his criminal associates for their crimes against democracy. But I also want them to go after everybody who covered up those crimes. You know, It's so funny because I want to believe that people you know, ultimately will do the right thing. I want to believe that ultimately justice will prevail, because if I don't, you know, then I don't know what I'm doing for a living.

But at the same time, I'm thinking to myself as you're saying this, I'm like, well, patriotism doesn't provide diffidends, right, it doesn't. It doesn't work, It doesn't give you a return on investment. And these people are led by money, they're led by greed, right, And so I think. And the funny thing, and this is I just am cracking up in my head, is that didn't Junior have to call Mark Meadows in order to get in touch with his father. And now we all know that Ivanka was

in the room. Why wouldn't you have just been able to call your sister and say, put dad on I just this family is so bizarre to me. Was your brother? Would you take us? Wouldn't? I wouldn't either. You're right, I'd ignore um. You know. So the question that I have about the one six commission and and and not subpoenaing Ivanka? Why are we still in this period? Glenn?

Do you think where the commission is still playing? Uh, mister and missus nice guy like we how the half a dozen people or the dozen plus people that have refused their niceties right, are the ones that are integral to this commission being successful in its investigation and uncovering for the public. You know who knew what when? About the attempt to overthrow the government? So why aren't we subpoenaing of Anka Trump? And wasting time? I guess is

what I'm saying. I feel like time is being wasted when these people keep showing us who they are, it is being wasted. And here's my assumption, we don't know why they're going this route. But usually when there are coequal branches of government embroiled in disputes, if that dispute is ever going to move into the courts to be litigated, there is something called accommodation, and accommodation is actually one of the factors that the courts will look at before

they decide a potentially political question on the merits. The courts will ask in litigation, you know, where one coequal branch of government is trying to get something or trying not to provide something to the other, and the courts will first say, did you try the ac amodation process, because if you didn't, then maybe you didn't make a good faith effort to get this short of upping the

legal ante. And so it's literally a factor in any number of legal tests when potentially political questions move into court. So it's kind of in the legislature's blood. It's part of the na of Congress to try accommodation first. Now, when the house is on fire, you don't, you know, test the temperature of the water on your risk before you try to put the dang fire out. So I'm

with you, righty, we're burning democracy daylight, let's go. But I don't think, and especially the Dems, I don't think they have it in them to go hard, to go fast, and to depart from processes like accommodation. First. So, and here's the other thing. When you talk about congressional subpoenas, can we do a minute on how all subpoenas are

not created equal? Because this is becoming more important by the day as we continue to see doj do nothing at least overtly that that would make it seem they're criminally investigating the command structure of the insurrection in the grand jury, which is where they need to be. All subpoenas are not created equal. So we have congressional subpoenas, which we have all seen can be disregarded and defied and locked and derided. Did you see Jenna Ellis's tweet?

I had to double check her timeline to make sure it was really her. She said, yeah, the committee's just angry because they can't date me. I'm not making that up. Check her timeline. She's mocking and deriding congressional subpoenas. And you know what congressional subpoenas are toothless? Why because Congress has extracted its own teeth by refusing to use its inherent power of contempt to compel obedience to subpoenas. They could do it, they choose not to go back to

the timidity of congress. Right, so congressional subpoenas are largely toothless. Let's talk about Tish James subpoenas in New York, right, those are subpoenas in civil investigations. They're not toothless, but they give rise to lengthy legal battles. They will never be enforced in it, they will rarely be enforced in a timely manner. And with the Trumps, you know they're gonna file nefarious lawsuit after us try to run out the clocks. So those are not the most efficient subpoenas.

Let's move down to Georgia, because grand juries in Georgia don't even get the issue subpoenas unless you ask the chief judge, may I please impaddle a special grand jury so I can start using subpoenas. You have to ask permission of the judge for that, So that has been a long time coming. But you know what, the mother

of all subpoenas is the federal grand jury subpoena. Because you can't you can mock and deride, but let you defy, because if you defy, I've issued more federal grand jury subpoenas that I could ever remember in my life time. And if you defy it, you know what happens. We immediately get a bench warrant from the judge to enforce the subpoena of the US Marshals are at your house six am. The next day. You're placed in cuffs and you're brought before the grand jury. You're brought before the

judge first and then the grand jury. And guess what. You have a privilege you want to raise to try to avoid testifying. Whether it's a bogus privilege or a viable privilege. You know what we do, Danielle. We immediately

walk into the Chief Judge's courtroom. The chief Judge has supervisory authority over the grand jury proceedings, and we litigate the issue instantly in real time, and the judge issues are ruling promptly, like I mean, within a couple of days, and orders the witness to go appear before the grand jury if he or she has no viable privilege to prevent their testimony. This is how the insurrection Ronald Trump's

conspiracy to end our democracy should be investigated. Apparently it's not being investigated that way by the Department of Justice. They're going after the foot soldiers of the insurrection. They brought seditious conspiracy charges, so we know they're in the grand jury investigating and indicting these matters, but we haven't seen any evidence that they're in the grand jury aggressively

going after the command structure of the insurrection. And if they don't take down the command structure of the insurrection, these idiots are going to be recruiting their second batcheld the soldiers seven d eight hundred people, no attack the capital. They can get eight hundred or eight in their place. That's why we should be in the dang grand jury,

federal grand jury where they can't play all these subpoena games. Yeah, I mean, I just feel like Glenn, we continue to have this sit and wait, sit and wait, sit and wait. We get these headlines that come out like this past week with Georgia, with New York, but it is a sit and wait game. And you know, Frankly again just saying midterm elections nine months away, right, and Frankly, you know, the Biden administration doesn't have a lot to run on, It doesn't have a lot to give Democrats to go

out there and say this is what we're doing. We hear the American people, no one is above the law. Justice will prevail. We're going to hold democracy, you know, with everything we got. That's not what we're hearing. It's not what we're seeing. M Glenn. Lastly, what what are you what are you paying attention to as we come to the end of this month going into February. What are some things that we need to have our eyes on.

So I look every minute of every day for some outward manifestation that the Department of Justice is actively and aggressively criminally investigating the leadership of the insurrection, the command structure of the insurrection, and I will continue to look for that. The other thing, I'm anxiously awaiting public hearings by the House Select Committee because I have a feeling

they have blockbuster evidence. We now know that the Supreme Court told Donald Trump shut up and sit down, because you do not have executive privilege to assert to prevent what we all know is deeply damaging information from going from the National Archives to the House Select Committee. That's important both legally in that case and atmospherically. For them to have largely shut down the executive privilege non sense. So I have a feeling those four hundred witnesses who

have appeared think about it. It really is only a handful of witnesses who have refused to comply, and those are the ones who are either intensely loyal to a fallen criminal president, and or they have their own criminal culpability, like Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan and Scott Perry. Of course they're not interested in cooperating because if they did walk into the House Select Committee, they'd have to say, I'm going to go the way of Eric Trump. I

invoked my Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. Give Roger Stone credit. He committed all kinds of crimes. He kind of walked into the grand jury and did what the law allows him to do. I plead the fifth, the Fifth. That's what these other knuckleheads should do. But they're even afraid to do that. So the Scott Perry's and the Jim Jordan's running a red run around, yammering all kinds of nonsense. Right, But there have been hundreds of witnesses

who said I'm not going that way. I'm going to tell the How Select Committee everything I know and what those four hundred witnesses know I'm sure is quite damning, and all of that is being it's being sort of coalesced down to what will be most important for us to see in public hearing. So I'm getting my popcorn and I'm going to be ready to go. I'm going to be ready in the tweets with you to watch that live and then come back on here and discuss

and unpack. Glenn Kirshner, as always, thank you so much for making the time to walk us through Trump's legal web, legal web of lies that we're all trapped inside of, and hopefully we're going to see the you know it coming down one string at a time. We appreciate you as always. Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.