Waiting for Justice

Two weeks after Congress UH sent a memo right to the court in California saying, oh, yeah, there's definitely enough evidence here for us to go after criminal charges for Donald Trump and John Eastman comes on the heels of learning about Jinny Thomas, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, and the fact that you know, not only did she attend the insurrection, but now it is also found that she funded the insurrection by paying for buses to go

to the Capitol Building, so essentially paying for those people to come up to DC and storm the Capitol Building because they believed in election fraud, which leads me to believe that Clarence Thomas, a sitting Supreme Court justice, also believes that there was election fraud, even though every single report is to the contrary. Clarence Thomas hasn't been asked to recuse himself. Clarence Thomas hasn't been investigated, and so far neither has Jenny Thomas. How did we learn about

the fact that she was at the insurrection? Oh, I don't know, because of by her own volition, she was doing an interview for the Washington Beacon. Right, I don't understand how these people who are at the top echelons of our government and our society have gone unscathed. But then I answer right my own question with the description, if you are attached to power and to wealth and

to whiteness, you'll get off scott free. I'm sitting here and I was thinking, right, and I've been making this this equation, right, putting this equation together in my head because everyone says like, oh, we need to have accountability and justice will prevail in all of these things. Right,

sitting and thinking to myself again. Jesse Smollett, actor who was just released waiting on appeal for his sentencing for lying to police back in twenty eighteen, Or twenty nineteen, was sentenced to one hundred and fifty days in jail for lying to police, who we know lie all the fucking time to the public. They lie about unarmed people,

unarmed black people that they kill. They lie about evidence that they did not find, but then want to make sure that their buddies get off scot free, or they can put together a character assassination, right so that no one delves into the report, the police reporting, so they're allowed to lie, and again there's no responsibility had whatsoever.

And then you have members of Congress who have lied, they've lived about their involvement, they are pleading the fifth they are doing whatever it is that they need to do in order to cover up their tracks. And no prison time, no indictment, no even open investigation. Because to me, right, like, go back to Donald Trump in Ukraine, what did he want from Zelenski back in twenty nineteen. He wanted Zealnsky to open up an investigation into Hunter Biden because he

wanted the appearance that there was wrongdoing. Because all Donald Trump understood to be true about media and how it works is that it doesn't matter if it's actually the truth, It matters what appears like it is happening, right, So again, if you are using the Republican savvy right for the for the betterment of oh, I don't know, pursuing justice, then why would our Department of Justice be opening up investigations into everyone that was in and around the insurrection.

So whether it is Josh Hally that gave his fist of support and also I apparently gave tours right of the Capitol building, whether it's Marjorie Taylor Green, whether it's Jinny Thomas, why aren't these people Why isn't there an open investigation? Because we are trying to pursue justice and get to the bottom of exactly what it is that happened on January sixth, who knew about it? And from when Glenn is going to tell us that, you know what, Danielle,

He says, there's more than enough evidence. There's more than enough evidence to indict. And at this stage in the game, I can't even come up with a reason as to why we are still in the position that we're in, which is stalled, other than the fact that Merrit Arlon, like Joe Biden, like the rest of Democrats have no fucking spine, right have no desire to ruffle anybody's feathers, and they believe that ignoring the problem is how it goes away, as opposed to dealing with it. Folks, we

are in terrible shape. We are in terrible shape as a nation. As we profess to you want to uphold democracy around the world while ours is crumbling. We are in trouble in so many different ways. And you know,

I wish that I could press fast forward. I wish that this was like a Netflix show or Hulu or whatever fucking streaming platform, where I could just press forward and know whether or not we get a Hollywood ending, whether or not those of us who have watched how our justice system arbitrarily chooses who is innocent and who is not based on what their complexion and their bank account, we've watched as politicians now at the state level are rolling out some of the most egregious abortion laws that

we've ever seen that don't even that don't even make room for the health or wellbeing of a child right or for the mother in cases of rape incest. Nothing. You're having that baby, regardless of what position you are in. You are being forced into labor climate change of police reform, no voting rights. But yet this administration wants to congratulate itself on passing an anti lynching bill, which should have

been passed fifty years ago. It wasn't resigning the Violence Against Women Act, which is great, but not allowing women to have abortions is also violence, right, but we're not. Let's not talk about that. So you're doing all of these low hanging fruit like things that look good or sound good but don't actually have any teeth to them. Put Maya Angelou on a coin, Harriet Tubman on a bill.

Juneteenth is a federal holiday. Meanwhile, Donald Trump is telling his supporters to lay down their lives to stop critical race theory, which isn't happening. And because Democrats didn't have a defense for the pushback in Virginia on critical race theory, we know, and Donald Trump knows, and Republican knows. It doesn't matter if it's true, It just matters if you can fucking sell it. So, folks, we are at a place in our politics, in our quest for justice, on

our march for the perfecting of this union. And I'm just gonna be honest with you, I don't see it going well. And I don't know what this means. I don't even care about Democrats right now. I don't know what it means for us. I am really, really incredibly worried about America, like staying up at night worried about America because the people that are supposed to be in

charge of our well being are not. The people that are supposed to care right and protect our rights are not there is now the latest is a law to what persecute people who travel out of state in order to seek an abortion, So meaning that in this democracy that we supposedly live in, there's actually no freedom of movement for women or people with uterus is because this is China and we can dictate people's movements right and threaten them with persecution. There's no pushback at the federal

level from this. We have no mention whatsoever of all of the harms that Republicans are doing at the state and at the federal level. So I'm sitting around waiting for justice to prevail from the Department of Justice as it pertains to the insurrection, and I'm like, but there's no desire. I think that we are the only people left who actually give a damn, And so what does that say. You know, folks, I really hope that this coming weekend that you take a deep break, that you

take a break from all of this. Turn off the news, turn off Twitter, you know, go enjoy the birth of spring, Go see some tulips, some you know, versioning of tree bulbs. Like I don't know, but take a break from all of this painstaking, heartbreaking nonsense, because I find that I feel crazy these days, even more so because I keep trying to make sense out of things that just plainly don't make sense anymore. They just don't make sense. You

can tell me why Democrats have an action. You can tell me why they want to throw progresses under the bus as opposed to the Conservatives that are the ones that are stopping the Biden agenda. You can tell me all of these things, but it just doesn't make sense. And so I'm left wondering. You know, what the next couple of months look like when the Supreme Court lays out all of their decisions that are essentially going to

change the landscape of America for the worse. I am deeply concerned, and so I ask all of you to take a break, you know, send us in the comments section like what are you doing? What are your plans for joy? What is your plan for happiness? Like are you going to go visit grandkids? Or you go into a park, You're going on a walk, you go into a concert, whatever it is, share it, Share your joy so that we can marinate in something other than the

bullshit that is happening right now, folks. Coming up next, our friend Glenn Kirshner, MSNBC Legal analysts and host of Justice Matters, will walk us through the latest and greatest in legal news. Folks. You know that when I have the opportunity to speak with our friend MSNBC Legal analysts and the host of Justice Matters, Glenn Kirshner, I am always overwhelmed and excited to delve into the latest legal news because we're sitting around wondering, waiting. Is the Department

of Justice in operation? Is it working? So Glenn, where are we? Where do you see things right now? We last spoke a couple of weeks ago. We heard about the House Commission and their pronouncement in court about the possibility of their being criminal charges. We've kind of left it there, so let's pick up from there, which was two weeks ago. One would think it would have been bigger news, but then you know, Europe went to war.

So where are we right right now in terms of the gathering phase and thinking that the Department of Justice is going to begin to move on the higher ring of the insurrectionists. Yeah, it was pretty interesting when Congress filed a brief in court saying that there's ample evidence

to charge Donald Trump with a number of crimes. You know that at least we now see two of the coequal branches of government going on record as saying Donald Trump committed all sorts of crimes and should be held accountable. Congress has now said that in a formal legal filing, and the federal judges have been virtually screaming it from the rooftops, saying things like, as Judge Mata said, Donald Trump's conduct on January sixth was the very essence of

a conspiracy Judge Mata's word. The problem is it is the third branch of government that has the power to prosecute, the executive branch through the Department of Justice. They've been prosecuting, but they haven't been working their way up the criminal ladder as quickly as we would like them too. There have been some important developments, Daniel, since we last spoke, Guy Reffitt was convicted. Not only convicted on all counts, he was convicted on all counts by the jury in

record time. Lest anybody make the argument, and I try to shoot it down every time I see it, that we can never impanel a fair and impartial jury to try these quasi political cases, we can, and the Department of Justice just did, because in less than four hours a jury convicted Guy Reffit of all counts, including abstruct

the congressional count of the electoral vote. And the most important takeaway from that is Guy Refit didn't even make his way into the Capitol that day, and yet he was convicted of obstructing the congressional count of the electoral vote. Now we see on the heels of that, the Department of Justice indicting Enriquetario, who wasn't even in DC on the day of the insurrection. So Merrick Garland at least is making good on his promise to charge people whether

they were at the Capitol that day or not. Enriquetario was not even in the city that day. He's been charged. And I think even more importantly, there's a Tario development that I'm hoping there's a sign of things to come, because in a twenty page motion for detention, they want to keep Tario jailed pending trial. The prosecutors quote Donald Trump's come to DC on January six will be wild waked as the motivator. The day after he sent that tweet,

the Proud Boys mobilized. Here's what is coming into full focus for me, Danielle. We see a Donald Trump conspiracy in three steps or in three acts. If we go back to September twenty ninth, the debate with Joe Biden. That was the day Donald Trump recruited the Proud Boys. He said, Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. That's Act one, yep. On December nineteenth, he activated the Proud Boys and set the date of the attack. Come to DC January sixth, will be. On January sixth, he deployed,

the Proud Boys. Go to the Capitol. Stop what's going on in the building. Fight like hell, or you won't have a country anymore. That's a conspiracy indictment in three acts that rights itself against Donald Trump. Danielle, and I've been I was on with Zerlina the other night, laying out this timeline and what I think is compelling evidence of Donald Trump's calledpability for the crime of seditious conspiracy and inciting an insurrection. I still believe DJ is going

to get there. They're not going to get there quickly enough. And the reason I say they're not getting there quickly enough is because Donald Trump had another one of his hate rallies last week where he endangered the lives of our nation's teachers by telling his supporters, you need to lay down your lives. Donald Trump's words to fight critical race theory being taught in our schools, which it really isn't and frankly it should be. But he's endangering teachers

because think about it. When he said you have to go to the Capitol and fight like hell, or you won't have a country anymore. Look at what his supporters did. Now he says you have to lay down your lives to fight critical race theory or you won't have a country anymore. What do we expect his supporters to do behind that directive. So that's why I say not quickly enough, because Donald Trump needs to be neutralized as the threat

to the nation that he is. You know, Glenn, what's frustrating to me, and I think that many listeners as well, is the fact that Donald Trump is a present threat, right, that there has been no time since he has left office where he has opened up his mouth and has not put people at risk, whether he's talking about COVID, whether he is, you know, three weeks before the invasion in the Ukraine, he is, you know, applauding Vladimir Putin right in as the kind of leader that this country needs,

and now attacking teachers. I mean, none of this is new. My thing, though, is this when you Act one has been something that has not been addressed publicly for quite some time, that you laid out Act one when Donald Trump when all of us were watching the debate and a gas because everyone could see very clearly what that was, right, stand back and stand by. I don't need a criminal degree right to understand what it was that Donald Trump

was signaling. Except I keep being I keep being told right that, you know, we have to be judicious about this. We have to you know, be able to show evidence, we have to do all of these things. And I'm saying, Glenn, how is Donald Trump, in his own words on videotape at rallies at debates not enough to move forward? How is it that I continue to hear that, Well, we have to, we have to be able to explain intent.

As if a jury of twelve people are that aloof that, they would have no idea what Donald Trump is directing people to do when he is very clear at the debate and at rallies up until last week, about what he wants his supporters to do. So tell me what is it? What is it? What is the magic what's the magic binder of intent that I'm waiting for here? I can't answer that question because we have enough evidence to move forward. We have had enough evidence to move

forward for a very long time, Danielle. The fact that we're not it's it's part of DJ's culture, unfortunately, to be too circumspect, to be timid at times, to fear doing something that is unprecedented. There's one thing that prosecutors, federal prosecutors hate, it's to take a maiden legal voyage where something has never been done before, because they don't like to lose, they don't like to be criticized, And

unfortunately that creates a culture of hesitation. And you know what, I can only assume because intent is not an issue here. When Bill Barr out on his reputation rempartation to says, I told Donald Trump, and I'm going to use Bill Barr's term, even though I'm I'm sorry to see that media outlets are giving him voice. I really am sorry to see that. But what he's been saying is I told Donald Trump to his face that his claims of election fraud were quote B s. And after that, Donald

Trump continued to lie about election fraud. So you can prove his criminal intent in your sleep. So I get so tired of the naysayers, Oh, intent is so hard to prove. No, it's not. I did it for thirty years with far less evidence than we have against Donald Trump. The only thing I can there's no logical explanation, right, thirty years I told, I told my juries for thirty years.

Then ye, ladies and gentlemen, don't fall into the trap of trying to make the defendant's crimes makes sense, right, because if we had to prove they made sense, no body would ever be convicted because crime doesn't make sense. Well, it doesn't make sense that DOJ is waiting this long and putting our nation at risk The only thing I can think of is that they are looking to drop an enormous conspiracy indictment on everybody, so in part they

can do what we call a coordinated takedown. The one thing I will say is, prosecutors, if you're dealing with a huge gang investigation, and I've handled cases like that, you need to time a coordinated takedown because if you arrest one person, then the other ten or twelve or fifty people are going to scatter. They're gonna flee, they're going to destroy evidence, they're gonna go after witnesses, they're gonna warn their co co conspirators, they're gonna So you

try to do it all at once. Maybe that's what DOJ is waiting to do. They're gonna drop the hammer on everybody all at once, to a coordinated takedown with coordinated search warrants, and then we're gonna have a big old conspiracy case in court. I don't know that I even buy that a sufficient explanation, but it is one possibility. You know. Here's my other question too. How many books have come out of the Trump administration, right, Like, how

many people have denied subpoenas? Have you withheld information? So that they can make a buck. Right now, Bill Barr's book is number one for New York Times nonfiction, right, and Bill Barr knew exactly what he was doing. I'm going to sell my secrets, my thoughts to the highest bidder, make a couple of million million off of it, and be on my way, right because the Department of Justice isn't doing anything. He knows good god damn well that

they have enough evidence to do anything. So how is it that Bill Barr, a man who stood up before the American people lied about the contents of the Mulla Report, then was able to capitalize on his lies that he did, being Trump's personal lawyer, is able to do a book, not be indicted, not be investigated. How does this happen, Glenn? I don't know. But the only thing lower than Bill Barr's credibility is Bill Barr's self respect. I mean lower

than whale droppings. Because Bill Barr actually said in one of these interviews Donald Trump was unhinged and dangerous and I'd vote for him again. So you can't explain a human being like that, nor can you. Other than all you care about is money and power and building the theocracy. You always wanted to build in the federal government. What I can't explain, though, is the Department of Justice is in action, presently in action regarding all of it, all

of the crimes that we've seen. I don't understand. You know, if you fail to hold criminal politicians leaders of the country accountable for their crimes, you know what you get. You get Vladimir Putin because he's committed crimes, including against his own people, and the machinery of his government will not hold him accountable because he's a dictator and an autocrat and a murderous thug. And that is where things lead. If you don't hold Donald Trump accountable, we're going to

go the same way. It couldn't be more obvious. So at some point DJ is going to have to step up. I still believe they will, but I thought they would a year ago. And you know, I keep being told that, you know, the Department of Justice is not operating on

the midterm election. You know, calendar right that although the rest of us are looking around and saying, I'm not quite sure what Democrats are running on because it cannot be law and order, because you haven't done anything right to preserve law and order or to reinstall it, frankly

in this country. And so you know, is your feeling that if Republicans, which is more more likely than not, take over the take over Congress, take back the House in the Senate, that if we didn't get things done at this time by the Department of Justice within the next eight months, is your feeling that, oh, well, we have two years left? Is that? Is that the Is that the upside that oh, okay, well we didn't get it done in time for November twenty twenty two, but

we have until I guess November twenty twenty four. Like, is that is that the feeling? Yeah? So, first of all, the Department of Justice does not operate on a political calendar. It doesn't do business by upcoming elections, and that's the way it should be. What I and I happen to believe the Dems are going to hold a House. I'm sorry, but that's the way I felt. I feel I could be wrong. Lots of political pundits and experts believe the

Republicans will win the House. If the Republicans win the House, technically, the Department of Justice will still be headed up by a Democratic appointee, whether Garland or if Biden makes a change somebody else, so the Department of Justice and theory will continue to grind on and indict people in prosecute cases.

But if the House is controlled by Republicans, they can make so much nefarious mischief in the Department of Justice by holding frivolous or even worse nefarious oversight hearings, carpet bombing the Department of Justice with congressional subpoenas, and then as Nuke Gingrich promised us, all they will find reasons to say, oh, all of these Democrats did not adequately

comply with our congressional subpoenas. Locked them up using the power of inherent contempt that Congress has that the Supreme Court has said as lawful, but that the Dems refuse to use presently. Gingrich went on TV and said, oh, the J six committee members will find themselves locked up. I assume he was talking to talking about the power of inherent contempt that Congress has, because the Department of Justice is not going to lock them up because it'll

still be controlled by a Democrat. So in theory, in theory, DJ will have until twenty twenty four. In reality, things may come to a grinding halt courtesy of a nefarious Republican controlled Congress. I you know, Glenn, I I try each and every week that we have the opportunity to talk, to offer people some hope, to say that like all is not lost, that we should be you know, God

willing pleasantly surprised in the next couple of months. But even the news of the wife of a sitting Supreme Court member being at the insurrection, the fact that she funded busses, right, like, these are things that are coming out because I've said from the beginning, follow the money, right, you'll know exactly who was supporting what when, Like follow

the money. If the Department of Justice in a week can seize all of the finances of Russian oligarchs, and you're telling me that I'm sitting around and it's just supposed to be normal that a Supreme Court justice is a spouse. It is a part of trying to overthrow the government, and we're all just supposed to look the other way. That's okay. I you know, I don't know how you keep faith, but I have to tell you

that mine has as sorely weighed. And I don't know if if even Biden would replace Mary Garland, who I believe should be replaced with by virtue of inaction at this point if that would even matter. But the last question for you is just you know, what are you what are you paying attention to in the coming weeks as it pertains to this news around Jinny Thomas, around others that were not at the insurrection but they're being indicted, other people that we knew were there or funded. What

are you paying attention to? So you know, I read the evidence that I see publicly reported and I try to assess how I would do things if I were involved in the criminal investigation and the prosecution. Of course, many of my predictions have proven to be inact. You're in at the end of the day, because even though I saw enough evidence to proceed, and I would have proceeded and indicted and prosecuted people, DJ is not doing

it on the timetable I would expect them too. So it's hard for me to make predictions based on the reliable evidence because it doesn't seem like DJ is doing business as usual or as it should. In my opinion. You mentioned Ukraine, it does seem like we are doing a better job protecting Ukraine. Than we are protecting America. But here's one thing that I guess is in the news today and I'm going to keep an eye on it.

You know, Bannon was in court yesterday continuing to try to make good on his threat that his criminal trial will be the misdemeanor from Hell, because he's got all these ridiculous lawyers making all kinds of outrageous claims. And the judge, Judge Nichols, handled the hearing yesterday and ruled in favor of Bannon on some issues, in favor of the government on the prosecution on some issues, which is

entirely normal for these kind of pre trial motions. But here's what I think you're going to see, and I'll make another prediction. We'll see if it pans out. You know, prosecutors never go to trial in a one charge standalone case if they can bring other charges that are properly brought in one indictment together with that one standalone charge contempt of Congress. I think in fairly short order you're going to see a conspiracy indictment brought at least against

the Bannons and the Roger Stones. And you know, Enrique Tario was Roger Stones right hand man, and I have a feeling the next stop up the sort of command structure of the insurrection will be the Bannons and the Stones and perhaps some others. I suspect because we have a July trial date in the Bannon contempt of Congress case, we're that that is not going to be a trial date.

It's probably going to be converted into a status hearing once the government starts returning larger conspiracy indictments against Ben and others. I actually think that July trial date gives DJ a de facto hard deadline to start bringing some of these other conspiracy charges. So that's kind of the big picture thing that I'm looking at and I'm banking on.

And I also think the public hearings that the House Select Committee has promised us this summer will also be an opportunity to kind of move the needle with respect to both public opinion and DOJ action, Because once we see all of these crimes prove to us for the testimony of the witnesses that the House Select Committee has thus far been listening to behind closed doors, I think that will also be a potential blockbuster moment. We will see, Glenn,

we will see. Thank you so much as always for making time and trying to make sense out of criminal nonsense. We appreciate you all the time. That is it for me today here on Woke a f as always. Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.