The Writing on the Wall

Commission will be finally presenting their case to the American people. Now, I am praying on everything and every stone and every bundle of fucking sage that this presentation is a hell of a lot fucking better than what was presented to us with the Muller Report. Unfortunately, in this country, you need to entertain people. They need to be brought in, They need to see video clips, they need to hear outrage, they need to understand the urgency of what is still

a slow moving coup that's not that fucking slow. Coming up next my conversation with our friend MSNBC legal analyst and the host of Justice Matters, Glenn Kirschner. We'll talk about what we are going to see this week, what we are hoping to see, and of course, once again, you know I asked the questions about is Merritt Garland paying attention, is he operating on the same fucking timeline for the demise of our democracy, or is he, like

Joe Biden, still operating in twentieth century reality. The things that we have to understand and what Democrats need to do is present the facts. Republicans are a dangerous fucking cult. They have ex community dicated two of their own because of their refusal to participate in the big lie. And the fact is that if we do not take action, if this Department of Justice continues to move at a fucking sloth like place pace and not take action, we're done.

You know, for the past couple of weeks, I've been speaking with so many people who are saying to me things like, I think that New Zealand seems nice. I'm looking into Portugal. I'm looking into leaving this country because I believe that it's going to become increasingly dangerous. This is what people who a couple of years ago, a year ago, would never have uttered these things, who wouldn't

consider themselves to be hyperbolic. But the reality is is that if you're paying attention, the writing is on the wall. Look at what just transpired over the weekend. There were mass shootings in multiple cities, and we're doing nothing about it. We continue to say in the media, Oh, we're going to be having these bipartisan talks that will go nowhere, like they always do. We'll be outraged for a little bit and then we will move on to something else.

I believe that things in this country are going to get bloody or before they get better. I believe that there are attacks that are being planned. I believe that what is happening with the rise of white supremacy and white domestic terrorists violence is that it's going to hit a fever pitch this summer, which is when shootings tend to go up anyway. But now we have in the next couple of weeks, we will learn the fate, the

final fate of Rov Wade. We will learn if the Supreme Court has decided to just make it open fucking season in New York City and allow allowing assault rifles

right to be a part of the equation. Just over the weekend again, our governor here in New York put together a list of gun restrictions, raising the age to twenty one years old, red flag laws, doing all of these things in anticipation of the Supreme Court thwarting states as rights, because it's okay to have states rights when it is about what abortion and control in that way.

But if you try and limit guns and violence, then all of a sudden, we have a fucking problem if we do not, if Democrats do not begin to connect the dots and stop imagining for themselves that there are some quote unquote rational Republicans that are left. If they don't understand that sixty five percent of Republicans believe that it is okay to use threats of violence against the government.

New Poland came out, we hadn't seen those numbers. So these people not only see the insurrection as something that's justifiable, they see it as the blueprint for how they plan on moving forward. So what are the rest of us going to do? I pray that this week is the beginning of real change, changing of people's minds and belief that they still have the power to shift our government from turning into a full on autocratic state. We are

in so much fucking trouble. And if they just think that it's going to be enough to just show people what happened and not connect it to what is continually happening since the insurrection. It's a rap. Our democracy is a fucking rap. I am becoming more and more concerned having serious conversations with my family about what it is that we are going to do in order to be safe and to keep ourselves safe, and does that look like remaining in this country that is finding ways to

kill us every day? So I don't know. I know that I will be watching on Thursday. I know that I will be in the tweets as this begins a six week rollout. But I would be lying if I said I wasn't scared that it won't be enough. So coming up next my conversation with our friend Glenn Kushner to unpack what we think that we will see in the coming days and what we're hopeful that it will do. Get a behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes, an original podcast from

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miss a new episode. Folks, we are gearing up for what is going to be, I don't know, another blockbuster week in America. At the end of this week the hearings the one six Commission has finally, after thousands of interviews, thousands of documents, subpoenas, back and forth with Republican House members that are defying their own rules that they took an oath to, we will begin this hearing. I don't

even know what a primetime spectacle. Who knows, but to prep us for what we can anticipate at the end of this week is our friend, host of Justice Matters and MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirshner. Glenn, A couple of

things percolated up last week. I mean, in between multiple mass shootings that I know that you've been covering that I've been on TV discussing that I've just been losing my mind over there has been movement, more movement than we have seen and heard from the Department of Justice since the insurrection January twenty January twenty twenty one, I want to start with the you tweeted, and I'm a terrible person, but you tweeted and said that it seems

as if Donald Trump is under investigation with the Department of Justice. Why is this leaking? Why are we hearing about this now after so many I guess well over a year now, well over a year of relative silence outside of the presser that Merritt Garland gave on the year anniversary of the insurrection. So what makes you lead to that assumption and and what do you think is happening? Yeah, I've got an opinion on this, Danielle, And I guess

the opinions are like elbows. Everybody's got a couple, and they're often no use to anybody else. But I'm gonna take a stab at it because we have been waiting and dying, and you and I have been talking every week. When are we going to see some movement from the Department of Justice opening a criminal investigation into Donald Trump?

Not that DOJ should announce it, we get that, But anytime we have a big old investigation going take it from a former federal prosecutor, that information leaks out into the public square, typically by what I call the leakers, the lawyers and the liars. Right it comes out. It just comes out. But we've heard nothing, and that's frustrated

the heck out of us. Now all of a sudden, this avalanche of information is tumbling into the public square about dj criminally investigating Trump, and we'll talk about what that evidence is. But I have an opinion as to why it's coming out now. First of all, I do think the Department of Justice has been doing a lot behind the scenes that we haven't known about, but all of a sudden it's becoming very public. Well, what is

about to happen In just a few days. We are going to see with our own eyes the evidence of Donald Trump's crime, the crime of his co conspirators. The January sixth Committee is going to pull back the curtain on Donald Trump's insurrection, and as Jamie Raskin has said, it's going to blow the roof off the house. I believe that. And before I go to the evidence of why we know Donald Trump is being investigated criminally, I've

said this before, but I think it bears repeating. The chief investigative counsel for the j six Committee, leading a team of former federal prosecutors, is one of the best rico prosecutors we've ever had. He also happens to be a former colleague and a friend of mine. His name is Tim Heafe. And let me be let me hasten to add I have no inside information I wouldn't ask

him a question even if I could. He I saw him give the opening statement in the biggest Rico prosecution we ever brought in the courts of Washington, DC, and I got justice goosebumps, And I kind of reluctantly say that because I don't want to pump Tim's head any bigger than it already is. He's a very good man, but he's remarkable at putting together both the evidence of the crimes he's prosecuting and the message the way it's delivered.

And I have every confidence that what we are going to see beginning on June ninth will look like the most compelling presentation of an opening statement to a jury that anybody has ever seen. Quite frankly, I'm that confident in the way the message is going to be delivered. Now, the difference, the difference between how one would present to a jury, obviously, and the presentation that we are going to see beginning on Thursday, is different because there is

no representation or Donald Trump. This is not a court of law. So just explain to folks how this different, this one may differ from what we experienced with the Mueller Report, and how this differs you know, with our television law and order criminal you know show fantasies that we all watch on a regular basis. Two great questions. It differs from the Mueller Report in that it's going to come to us largely unfiltered Bill Bark and not

block the truthful information about Donald Trump's crimes. This time, I go back and my blood pressure instantly rises when I think about how Bill Barr lied to us about what Bob Muller found regarding the crimes of Donald Trump. And one of my personal heroes, Judge Reggie Walton, is the federal judge who ruled and announced that Bill Barr lied to us about the Mueller Report. We don't have

that problem this time. But the other way it's going to be a challenge, I think for them to present it to us is twelve jurors in a box or a captive audience. They can't go anywhere. They have to sit there and listen to us, and it doesn't matter. You know, they don't have to change the channel, and you know, no different news organizations or broadcasting it, and they can pick and choose. So they're going to need to present this in a way that grabs hold of us.

I always tell my prosecutors, when you're arguing to a jury your opening statement, you want to grab the jurors by the throat figuratively speaking, and you never let go. I don't care if you're opening statement lasts an hour or a day, and in big regal prosecutions they run many, many hours. So their challenge is to grab hold of

us and not let the viewer go. And this team that has been working this investigation is as adept at delivering a message to the jury in this case the American people, as I think any team that has ever worked as part of a congressional investigation. So you know, buckle up, because I think we're going to get what

we've been longing for. And then that transitions me into well, why, all of a sudden are we hearing that Donald Trump is being criminally investigated, Because we are hearing that all of a sudden, we've got information that, oh my goodness, they're using grand jury subpoenas to investigate Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis,

John Eastman, and Donald Trump's fay collector's scheme. They delivered a grand jury subpoena to you know, mister green Bay sweet Peter Navarro, who I'm sorry is a stone called clown. I saw him on Ari again. He's a stone called clown. The arguments that he makes are absurd and juvenile and specious. But the grand Jury subpoenaed him and they directed him to provide all evidence of communications between he and Donald Trump. The Grand Jury is criminally investigating Donald Trump. There's no

two ways about it. Why are we all of a sudden hearing about it? Because I believe the Department of Justice knows precisely what the January sixth Committee is about to unleash on the American people. And when we see in those public hearings the evidence of Donald Trump's crimes with our own eyes, and when we learn that there is evidence that can prove those crimes beyond a reasonable doubt, you know what's going to happen. We're going to explode.

There's going to be a public outcry about why has a DJ indicted Donald Trump for these crimes that we've just seen broadcast in prime time? And I think DJ is trying to get ahead of that coming public outcry. I really do so. I think they've been investigating him methodically, perhaps slowly, and behind the scenes, But now it's all going to start to come out, and I'm going to use the O word optimistic. I'm feeling more optimistic right now.

I have to. I have to kind of separate out the mass shootings, which drags me down to a very dark place. And I'm happy to talk about those if you want. But I'm feeling more optimistic right now than I have in a while. So here's the thing that I'm thinking about right because to me, all of this is for the public, is mostly about pr and branding right now. For the last six weeks, unfortunately, you had had the great displeasure of commenting on Johnny Depp and

Amber heard right. Only one time. I was forced to go on Aaron talk about that the world had been captivated right all over social media on this celebrity and I call it celebrity crap. That's what I will say. There are too many important things going on for us to be delving into, Oh, who's going to get hundreds of millions of dollars from whom? Right when people can't even put bread and gas in their house. At the same time, what do you make of the sensationalism that

that trial had, that captivated people. It kept people tuned in for six weeks. And what is it that the hearings that we are going to see in prime time need to do in order to have that same captivation that? Say I and I'm sorry to say it. We are a reality TV celebrity junk junked up culture, right, and so if there is going to be any real movement here, the people need to be spoken to as if we

are all collectively the jury. So what do you make of what we saw with the depth and heard and what we can anticipate in terms of how this is going to be presented and discussed to keep people in engaged? Yeah, so there are three things I think that captivated people, you know, regarding the depth heard circus trial. One, we love celebrity, we just do, and so we're always going

to be drawn to a good celebrity story. Two, when those celebrities are struggling in their lives and fighting and feuding and it's ugly and there's all kinds of salacious stories about what one does to another, we love both the celebrity and I'm sorry to say, Danielle, we somehow it makes some people feel better when when rich celebrated people struggle and suffer, so there's that added bonus to those who are attracted to the tragedy of a celebrity

relationship going bad. And then, third, I think it's the distraction because you know what, whatever Johnny Depp and Amber Heard did or didn't do to one another has nothing to do with the health and viability of our democracy or our day to day lives, so we can plug into it as escapism. So I think those three things in combination is what drew people to that coverage. But you know, this story we're about to see beginning on June nine, is all that, but a whole lot more.

It's got celebrity, it's got ugliness, it's got you ugly feuds between and among people who used to be friends and family. But it also directly impacts our lives and the future of our democracy. So I do think it's a challenge to present it in a way that captivates

people because I'm sorry, we need to be entertained. But I am going to go back to I have complete confidence in this team, both the team working as the investigative team, the former federal prosecutors, and the team in front of the cameras, the you know, the Jamie Raskins and the representative Thompson's and the Cheneys, who I believe know how to deliver the message in a way that

it's going to resonate. So right now we know that there have been several subpoenas, right Petter Navarro, as you mentioned, and he I don't even know why the man goes on television. I guess to make himself look good, but he fails. He has been subpoenaed. We know that there are proud boys, there are still where I'm still waiting for an investigation into Jenny Thomas. What do you make

of what we know about who has been subpoenaed? Who is also being requested to come for this prime time viewing to actually speak now in front of the American people, essentially reiterating what they did in their private interviews with the committee. Yeah, that's an interesting question. Who are we going to see? Who will the witnesses on our TV screens be beginning on June nine. I don't think we

have an answer to that question yet. But if I investigate a pretty significant crime, let's say significant, something that you know has lots of witnesses lots of evidence, lots of damage to the victim and to public safety. I'm a grand jury. I'll just give you a ballpark. I'm a grand jury. One hundred people. I may only present twenty to the jury at trial because I have to winnow down the witnesses that will tell the story, will present the evidence, so I can prove every element of

the charged offenses. But that won't bore the jury, won't distract the jury, won't be straneous, won't be perhaps inconsistent with the message I'm trying to deliver about the crime that was committed. So that is where again, the expertise of this team of former federal prosecutors in presenting information in exactly that way is why we're gonna see a very different presentation. I believe we don't know who the witnesses will be, but think back to the first impeachment.

This is what I was thinking, because I was the first impeachment was pretty compelling. It was pretty compelling. And you know when you had Ambassador Marie Ivanovitch and Bill Taylor and Fiona Hill and even that, you know, ridiculous human being Gordon Sondlin, one of Trump's lackeys, even he testified everybody was in the criminal loop, right right right. That was pretty compelling. And that was the time when we had a Congressional staff that consisted of Republicans and Democrats.

So we still got the stupid dog and pony show by the Republicans who were questioning the witnesses. We're not going to have that this time. This time, the entire panel, the entire J six Committee, is lockstep marching toward justice, trying to save our democracy. That's why I say we're going to see a very different presentation, perhaps unlike anything

we've seen before. Let's remind folks too, with a couple of minutes that we have in terms of what the criminal charges could be that come out of this presentation. The whole point, just to remind everybody listening, the whole point of this investigation was to get to the bottom of who was involved with the insurrection, who knew what when?

Was this something that was premeditated, preplay or was it just people getting quote unquote as many of the infut soldier insurrectionists have said that they just got caught up, right. But what we know from the PowerPoint presentation, what we know about phone calls back and forth to Mark Meadows. What we know about the oath keepers having stationed people in Virginia and different places who eventually take over all

of the other congressional buildings. This was not just a caught up in the moment, And so that is going to be what I believe is laid out to the people, that this was a coordinated plan. That's what I hope that they say still is continuing. Right. So what if we're looking at this and the people are going to reach a fever pitch with regard to how could all of this criminal mountain be in front of us and

there be no indictments? What are the possible charges Glenn that we are looking at not just for Donald Trump, but for all of the lackeys surrounding him that allowed this to take place. This is a criminal conspiracy, and there is a precise law in the United States Code, my big, ugly blue book of federal laws, the US Code, is across my office. I'm tempted to run and get it and hold it up as a prop, but I

won't do that. In that book, the United States Criminal Code, there's a crime eighteen United States Code, Section three seventy one. We call it shorthand a three seventy one conspiracy. It's a conspiracy to commit offenses against or defraud the United States of America. That is the precise federal statute that was used by Bob Muller to indict the Russian Internet Research Agency for interfering in our election. This is what Donald Trump, Mark Meadows, and a cast of thousands did.

They committed that crime three seventy one conspiracy, crimes against the United States or defraud the United States. And I can say with complete confidence and certainty they committed those crimes because the federal judge has already found Donald Trump committed that crime and another crime, which is a felony, and that's obstructing an official proceeding the certification of Joe

Biden's win. Judge David Carter in California made a ruling after an evidentiary hearing that Donald Trump and John Eastman is one of his treasonous lawyers together committed a conspiracy against the United States and obstructed an official proceeding. And he found by a preponderance of the evidence that they

committed those crimes. Preponderance of the evidence is a fancy way to say fifty one percent of the evidence support arts the conclusion that they committed those crimes, and Danielle to arrest somebody and indict somebody, you don't even need fifty one percent. You only need probable cause, which is well below the finding that Judge Carter made about how

much evidence there was that Trump and Eastman committed those crimes. So, once you have somebody involved in a conspiracy, every other crime that is committed by every other co conspirator, whether known or not to the other co conspirators, as long as it was committed during the course of the conspiracy and in furtherance of the conspiracy, even if Donald Trump didn't do it himself, he gets charged with it. So there are going to be bookoo crimes. That's a legal

term that can be charged against Donald Trump and the others. Now, of course, Congress is investigating for a couple of reasons, to legislate to make sure this never happens again, and to make criminal referrals to the Department of Justice. So,

and there was one other thing I wanted to touch on. Oh, Mark Meadows, for example, we just saw CNN report that there are some three thousand, I think almost three thousand texts that involve every branch of government involved in Trump and Meadows and Eastman's conspiracy to overturn the elections results. So I think for Mark Meadows, the only question left is is he best characterized as Donald Trump's underboss or consigliari because he is a martee member of this criminal conspiracy.

So I keep saying buckle up because you know, I actually am starting to feel again like justice is coming. Last question for you because as you're playing this all out and I'm remembering what the federal judge said, I'm also thinking about our gutted, compromised Supreme Court. Yeah, I'm thinking about how this if the Department of Justice begins their paradi of indictments following the presentation by the House won six Commission, it begins in what court I'm assuming

the DC Circuit Federal Federal DC Federal District Court. The trial court is where the first challenge will be launched. Then it will go up to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, then the Supreme Court. I mean, Glenn, I'm going to ask you to read some tea leaves. I mean, we have a compromise Supreme Court. We have a justice that is sitting on there, who I believe him, along with his wife, was working to overturn our free and fair election. That being said, what does justice look like

when we are compromised? So the Supreme Court is compromised, it's lost much of its legitimacy. And you know, they're busying themselves going after their own law clerks to see who might have leaked the Roe Vweight opinion when they should be going after one of their own justices, Clarence Thomas, and his insurrection is quite Jinny Thomas. So yes, they are determined to take away our constitutional rights, women's right to privacy, and I'm convinced that contraception, gay marriage, and

probably desegregation will be next, mark my words. However, on the election challenge front, the Supreme Court held strong they could have accepted review of any number of cases when the election results were being challenged, and Trump's lawyers lost sixty four of sixty five federal court challenges because they were end state court challenges because they were all bogus,

But they didn't. They didn't do that. And even more recently, Danielle when Donald Trump was trying to hide the incriminating evidence that was in the possession of the National Archives, hide it from the j six Committee, the Supreme Court, all of them. But Thomas ruled no, that information goes over to Congress, even though it is likely to be

deeply incriminating of Donald Trump. Think about it. What the Supreme Court will not do, I believe, is turn our nation into a dictatorship by corruptly ruling for Donald Trump. Here's why I say that they're going to take our rights away unless we fight to retain them. Unless this administration gets serious about increasing the number of justices the thirteen, so it will mirror the thirteen federal jurisdictions that have grown over the years. It's just the right thing to

do forever, every reason. Plus it would ideologue the Court a little bit. So hopefully the administration will start to pay attention to that in Congress will as well. They'll take away those rights. They will give people even more weapons of mass destruction in the Second Amendment arena. So I am not confident with the direction of our Supreme

Court except on the election front. You know why, if they turn our nation into a dictatorship by the legal fiat, if these cases bubble all the way up to the Supreme Court. Then they are cutting off their nose to spite their face, because one of the first things the dictator will do is say, I'm no longer recognize Supreme Court supremacy. I don't. In fact, I want all the Supreme Court justices rounded up and put in prison. And the Supreme Court will have given the dictator the ability

to do that with impunity. So the Supreme Court, motivated by their own self selformation ye, will not turn us into a dictatorship because then their power is at an end. Follow the money, follow the power. That's what motivates people. The Supreme Court is not motivated to do the right thing.

They're motivated to save their own fat sorry asses. All right, I'm going to hope right that word that I say sparingly, I'm going to hope that you are indeed correct, because as you are saying this, I'm thinking, oh, well, maybe we don't relitigate loving the Virginia, because then Clarence Thomas and Jinny's little love story would just crumble before us. So it is really about people's own self interests and their ability to hold power above all else. It isn't

about the good of the country. It is about the good of them. Well, Glenn, this is going to be a blockbuster week. I look forward to our conversation as these hearings unfold, because I know, like me, you will be glued and be on our television screens and on your own show, Justice Matters, covering covering this, and keeping us all up to date. So I look forward to our continued conversation, as do I in part because Danielle, you always bring the Brooklyn and Jersey guy out, and

I love that. I don't get to unleash that all that often, but I love that well, I appreciate. I appreciate that, thank you. It's no secret that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca Freer and Tiny for a lighter take on the heavy stuff. Each week, The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, and activists to break down the issues in a way that won't

just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get The Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Scottify, Stitcher, and streaming on YouTube and Twitch. That is it for me today, Dear friends on woke app As always power to the people and to all the people. Power. Get woke and stay woke as fuck. Get a behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes, an

original podcast from The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the notable guests and experts from the Emmy Award winning series. Together, they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to gun laws, and take a closer look at how and why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from The Daily Show with Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes every Tuesday.