The War on Critical Thought

in Trouble, streaming November seventeenth only on Hulu. Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA f Daily with Me Your Girl. Danielle Moody pre recording from my Brooklyn Silarium. Folks, Today, I'm really excited to bring a conversation to you with doctor Keisha Blaine. She's an associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh an author of the book Until I Am Free, Fannie lou Hamer's Enduring Message to America.

I get into a really great conversation with doctor Blaine about how important history is, particularly right now, and what it means to her to see such a pushback against the true history of this country. That she's dedicated her professional life to not only studying, but in offering to all of us pieces of that history through her work, whether it is her writing for MSNBC dot com or through her several books that she has. And I think about history a lot, because for me, it was one

of my favorite subjects in school. History, which would then turn into government. Into government and politics were always really interesting to me. I liked learning about the people that came before me, about how they what their role was in moving our society forward, or what their role was in thwarting progress. I remember my first time going to the US capital, and it was my first day working on Capitol Hill and I was coming up the Metro

Capitol South station in Washington, DC. When you come up that long escalator ride up the stairs, you look up and around you can see the Capitol, which looks like, you know, a three D pop up right, like a three member those three D books or cards that you would get. It looks like that. It almost looks, you know, super imposed on the landscape. And then all of these huge white, you know, congressional buildings, offices, congressional offices surrounding.

And I remember coming up those escalators and catching my breath, that I could not believe that I was going to be walking the same paths as so many of my heroes and heroines. And what I think about history now, and I particularly, you know, following the insurrection, which I remember crying that day, I will be honest with you, the day of the insurrection one six. And why was I crying? Because these people, that angry white mob ruined

something that I treasure right, which is our democracy. But these buildings, to me, are more than buildings there where lives are changed, made better or worse. There where this area is where history is made, where speeches that resonate

are made, where quotes are chiseled into marble. Knowing that it was enslaved black people that created all of this, right, and having that juxtaposition of emotion where on one hand, I am thinking, oh, my goodness, I'm going to be a part of history, and I'm going to be a part of creating legislation and working on bills, you know,

and shaping this country for the better. And then on the other hand really thinking to myself, oh, dear God, this place is filled with the skeletons of people that we will never know, We'll never know the names of the enslaved African people whose hands and bodies were broken so that this country could be formed. It's a really interesting place to kind of sit. And in my conversation with doctor Kesha Blaine, you know, we both lament about who we would be if our history hadn't been robbed

from us. That there are so many actors, so many people important, people like Fanny leu Hamer, who people really don't know, which is why doctor Blaine wrote the book. She said, as a historian, somebody that went to school to become a professional historian, she did not learn about Fanny leu Hammer until her senior year of college. And so when we talk about this fight against truth, this fight against history, it we never really delve into how it has been robbed from all of us, not just

about the whitewashing right. The whitewashing is a purposeful weapon, right to weaponize and to demean, right to demean other communities and groups, to say that they have had nothing to offer, that they are not really Americans. And this is why you have angry white Americans these days pointing

and telling you who is American and who isn't. Because it has been indoctrinated, because if they learned who who created the cotton gin, who created the light filament, who created the stop light, who created the hair press, who created this, that and the other thing, Then if that had been taught as a part of their history, not just during Black History Month, but had been a part of how they learned history, do you think that we would be in this tormented, hate filled place that we

are now. I don't think so. And that is purposeful because I've said this before. If you can profit off of hate, and if hate and fear are easier to sell than hope, and you're a snake oil salesman like Trump, like a Tucker Carlson, like the late piece of shit Rush Limbaugh, if you are going to be like the Rogan, you know, like, if you are going to be that person who is going to capitalize on misery, then it works for you to maintain that lie. And how do

you do that through education. That's why I say that education is one of the biggest ways that we keep white supremacy going. Just look through your child's history book. There is no mention of the contributions of really anybody outside of white men. So why then do you think that white men are the only ones that are ever in power, are allowed to have power. Why do you think that these people walk around and they get to tell you or ask you where are you from? Where

did you come from? If you are not white? Because our contributions, the myriad of contributions that are made by black people, Brown people, Asian, Pacific Islanders, everybody, Latin X people, Native Americans who we completely dismiss altogether contributed to the story of America. But as I have often said, history is told by the conqueror, not the conquered. That's what the cricket player said. History is told by the conqueror, not the conquered. But we have an opportunity because we

are conscious to the fuckory now. We are all aware about the gaslight and how deep it goes because we are watching it play out right now. We wondered, how did people think about, you know, think you think about back in the day when we were when we were burning women at the state right, because any woman that

had an opinion of thought leadership was considered a witch. Right, how is it that we think that we have grown when those same people who would have burned women at the stake right, are the same people that are burning books, are the same people that are telling women that you can't have control over your bodies? Right. We haven't grown, really, We just the tactics of oppression have just changed with time and technology. And I think that the reason why

it continues is because we don't know our history. We take these isolated incidents that the powers that be want to tell us right how to move, how they are, but we don't really ask questions because you see, we don't teach in a way that we want people to ask questions. We want to deposit information. We don't want to teach critical thinking. And that makes sense given the fact that we just initially wanted people to be on

lines at factories. You put in this widget thing, the person next to you puts in their widget thing, and there was really no interrogation of the process. Right. You never even saw probably the end result. You just looked at your piece. H there's no real critical thought. The world has changed rapidly, and we would do a service to each other if we actually asked more questions, if

we knew the truth. And so I'm so excited for you all to hear the conversation with doctor Kesha Blaine, Because one, there are some very horrific things that have happened in this country, that continue to happen in this country, And I believe that we are in the midst of an extraordinary and extraordinarily dangerous breakthrough. They don't call them growing pains for no reason. Growth is painful. Breakthroughs are painful. So are breakdowns. I believe that both of these things

are happening right now. We have an opportunity. Who do we want to be? What do we want the next chapters of our story of America's story to be the continued perpetuation of the lies, or an opportunity to reimagine the story not through the perception the prism of the conqueror, but through those that have been conquered, through those who have been invisibilized. What would that American history book look like? What would that story be? You know, in societies that

are on the brink, a couple of things happen. You begin to use the media as a tool for propaganda. You spread lies, you discredit truth, scientist academics facts. Do you wear people out emotionally with anxiety, fear of loss, which creates tribalism, and then you go in for the kill. We're in Act three right now, and I'm not quite sure how the play is going to end. I'm pretty sure it's not a comedy. I'm pretty sure it's not even a dramedy at this point. But there is opportunity

in the obstacles that we are being presented with. How this story ends, I think is going to be up to every single one of us. We will see coming up next, friends, is my conversation with doctor Kesha Blaine, the author of Until I Am Free, Fanny lu Hamer's Enduring Message to America. And then the reality is is that until all of us are free, none of us,

none of us are free, folks. I am very excited to welcome to woke f for the very first time, doctor Kesha Blaine, who's Associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh, also an MSNBC columnists and the author of Until I Am Free, Fanny lu Hamer's Enduring Message

to America. Doctor Kesha Blaine, let me first start off with saying that one of the things that I've always troubled me in my life is how little I know about some of the most extraordinary and exceptional black activists that are responsible frankly for the work that I do, for me even being able to be here and speak

out on behalf of injustice. Fanny lu Hamer is one of those people who, while the name may roll off the tongue, the real understanding of what she endured right, how she became an activist and why is something that you explore in this book. And I want to ask you, you know again, from my vantage point, this type of history is necessary because it's been purposefully white, It's been purposefully whitewashed and denied right from our quote unquote mainstream education.

We're watching this happen right now with the pushback and the white lash against critical race theory, which isn't even taught in K three twelve. But nonetheless, what compelled you at this particular time to really delve into Fanny Luhimer's life? Wow, so many factors, And you know, listening to you made me think about my own experience because it was not until senior year of college that I even found out about Fanny Luhimer. And I was majoring in history and

afrikan of Studies. I was taking courses particularly on the black experience, but it still took me some time to get to her, and I think this is true for most people. One of the reasons why I wanted to write this book in this particular moment was not only to introduce people to Fanny Luhimer, but more sort of to get people to start thinking about how Fanny Luhimer's ideas, how her political strategies, how her activism could in fact

provide a model for us. I think there was a particular moment where, you know, I was just sitting and reflecting on everything that was going on, and this was in the context of the Trump presidency. This was also the context of the uprisings that were taking place across the nation and also globally, and I think so many, like so many people, I felt discouraged. I was frustrated because I said to myself, we are constantly it seems like we're fighting the same battles over and over again.

It seems like we're not making as much progress as we think we're making, or even when we do make progress,

we're making steps backwards. And so for me, it was about centering Fannie Wiheimer's voice and her words, which always inspired me and I returned to Hammer, particularly during the pandemic, during the uprisings, uh, you know, reading more about her, you know, reading her speeches again, and I felt it was necessary to bring the story to a large republic, um that I believe needed to hear humorous voice, not only to find inspiration, but particularly to find political strategy

and to figure out how we could make this nation better and certainly this world better. You know. One of the things that strikes me in your book and in the in the Discovery is that sanny Lu did not become an activist until in her mid forties. Um. Can you speak to that, because you know, many folks when we think about activism, right, we think about marches and young people, um, you know, getting um engaged in our in our teens. Right. And and for some people, again,

there are different moments, there are different catalysts. And for sure, you know, during twenty twenty, when there was just so much horrific racial injustice that was transpiring. I mean, right now we're watching the Kyle Rittenhouse case. Right now we're watching you know, the murder trial of the men that killed Ahmad Aubrey in cold blood, all of this having transpired over twenty twenty sparked activism in people that hadn't

been before. What was the spark or sparks for Fanny leu Hamer at the age as you say at a forty four, Well, there are so many factors, you know. One of the things that I emphasize in the book that I think is so important to think about is the crucial work of the Student Non Violence Coordinating Committee. So this is an organization that we referred to as SMIKE. And what is so interesting about this is I think most people are pretty familiar with many of the activisms

in SMIKE. We're talking about folks like John Lewis, Bob Moses, and you know, as you point out, many of the activists who are involved were quite young. SNICK as an organization had been established on a college campus that many of those who were leaders in the movement were in their early twenties when they got involved. But one of the things that's so valuable about SNICK, which comes out of really the vision of Ella Baker, who was the visionary of SNICK, is that they were committed to this

notion of grass roots leadership. So they were going to communities and they would bring information, they would bring resources. Above all, they would be looking for ways to tap into the potential of people on the ground. And that's exactly what they did in nineteen sixty two when they showed up Haymer's community in Mississippi. They were there to share information, you know, to help with voter registration. They were there to talk about the constitution, to make sure

that they were giving information and empowering local residents. But they were also trying to you know, really see who was there who might be interested in joining the movement, who could in fact emerge as the lead. And they found that in Hamer, as so many others. And so Hamer attended a meeting, a mass meeting that was held at a church in August nineteen sixty two. As you

point out, she was forty four years old. According to Hamer, is the first time that she learned about her constitutional right to vote as a citizen of the United States. And I'll always pause when I think of that. It certainly helped us see really just the brutality, you know, of Jim Crow, because it wasn't just about I mean,

absolutely the violence. We have to talk about that, but the one of the other strategies, which isn't surprising when you also when you look at you know, the history of slavery was the effort to keep information from people, to block people from having access to quality education, to block people from just knowing what their rights and privileges are, you know, as citizens, in order to continue to keep them in a system of subjugation. And so Fanny will

Hammer learned in that meeting about her rights. She learned about the reconstruct from amendments. I mean, these were things that really I think transformed her. It was a political awakening as much as it was a religious awakening, you know. As I explained, she saw that it was God's calling

for her to join the movement. You know, it's so interesting because I think about myself and my own calling into activism, and I think that in hindsight, I would say that it really is a calling, right, that it is that that there is something to the extent that is divine about recognizing the struggles of other people of yourself and wanting to do what it is that you can with the talents that you've been provided, you know,

to advance equity. Right, and that is that is what I have always seen, you know, and looking at old images and video of Fanny lew Hamer is just that the indignation of it all right, um, which I think is extraordinary, um, because we should be indignant in the face of injustice, and you know, and talk about the fact that until I'm free, no one is free. Right.

Can you talk to also a part of our history in this country that we never really delve into, which is sterilization and the forced sterilization of black and brown women and poor women. And we love to say, you know, this isn't the country I knew. It's one of it's one of the most frustrating phrases that I think come out of the mouths of many people. This isn't who we are. Every time that we are faced with a mirror that shows us the brutality and cruelty that this

country was founded on. Talk to us about that legacy and why we don't talk about it enough? Wow, so much, I could say. In fact, as you were speaking, I thought of my own journey and one of the reasons that I came to the place where I realized that I needed to write books and articles that did not simply speak to you know, the needs and concerns of academics, as much as that's important within academia, but I needed to make sure that I was writing books that anyone

you know, could read and really find useful. Was because of that that very same thing. You know, hearing people talk about moments in the contemporary context and you know, saying, this is not who we are. That's shocking. We've never seen this sort of violence in a black church. For example, this happened, you know, I think in twenty fifteen with the Charleston shooting. I can't tell you how many people were on television saying, oh, this is you know, this

is so different, this is this is not American. You know, this does not happen in American history, and you're thinking, really, have you read a history book. Lately? Black churches are constantly targeted and have been targeted for a long time. And so back to this point about forsterilizations, it's really tracking to me. I think over the last year we've spoken a little bit about it, and every time it comes up in the news, people say exactly that, it's like, oh,

this is this is so different. We you know, where where does this actually happen? Well, it happens in the United States, and if you pay attention to the experiences, as you point out a black and brown women, impoverished women, then you see a longer pattern. It's a brutal you know, it's a brutal pat I mean, it's a brutal history, is a traumatic history. You know. Hamer in nineteen sixty one, one year before she joined the movement, had been hospitalized

to remove a small uterine tumor. This was a noncancerous tumor. There should have been a fairly simple procedure. The white doctor who performed the procedure I decided to remove Hamer's uterus. That was traumatic enough, but he didn't even tell her. He didn't even tell her immediately after. He actually told others and Hammer found out about it through the whispering network. When Hammer found out, she confronts to him and she demanded an answer, and he did not provide an answer.

And as Hammer pointed out, he didn't have to because it was not it was not unusual. It was actually quite common. It was quite common in the hospital where Hamer had the procedure done. It was quite common in Mississippi. It was common throughout the South, and it was happening across the nation where why doctors were taking it upon themselves to decide who they considered fit or unfit for reproduction.

And of course, we understand the history of racism, we understand eugenics, we understand how black women, how a women of color in particular, and impoverished women are often targeted in these contexts. And so Hamer decided to talk about it as an activist, and to do so because she realized that a lot of people had no knowledge. You know, there's a moment where in the book Hamer is giving testimony.

She's talking at this convention. She's talking about forcedialization. She's talking about how this is a pattern there's happening in the South, and it's happening in her community. And there's a doctor there from Harvard and he's he's asking her, you know, to clarify, because he's not he's not grasping what she's saying. He's not even understanding it because to him,

this doesn't happen in the United States. And she tells him and he says, I've never heard of this, and she says, well, you don't have to hear about it. I've experienced it. And so many people who look like me have experienced it, and I think to this very day you will find people sort of puzzled, like, oh, this is this is interesting? When does this happen? Well, it happens, and it has happened for a long time if you pay attention to the experiences of black and

brown women and impoverished women in particular. You know, Jeki Plan, I want to ask you something that just struck me as you're talking. And you know, I think that the biggest power, the biggest win of white supremacy in this country around the world, has been the ability to disrupt our history. Who we are, where we came from, what we know, how we learn ourselves. The fact that you went to school to become a historian didn't learn about

Fanny leu Hamer until your senior year in university. I also wasn't introduced to many different figures that should be names that we just know until college and after college, and in still discovering people like Paulie Murray, who I just learned about recently, right through the documentary that is out now. What are your concerns about the conversations that we are having right now, the debate about what kids learn, particularly white children because we don't care what black and

brown children learn. What are your concerns about this countries relationship to history, relationship to its history, and the direction

that we are moving in right now. Well, I think what is so disheartening at this particular moment is that, you know, there's so many people who have convinced themselves quite frankly, I don't know how else to explain, and have convinced themselves that somehow, if we teach the history and its fullest sense, if we talk about the experiences of marginalized groups in this country, that somehow is going

to cause division. And there's this bizarre notion that division happens because people learn the history and because people know exactly what led us to this particular moment. The irony is that the nation has already divided. It has been divided, and in fact, if you've paid attention to the history and you learned the history, you would know why it

has been divided. And part of I think what is sad about all these conversations, you know, as you point out for critical race theory, you know, I remember the first time I heard the discussion. I think I might have put on the television I heard someone talking about critical race theory. I stopped and I thought, are they're talking about critical race theory. That's odd. Who's talking about critical race theory? You know, I have a PhD in history.

I didn't learn critical race theory. I know my friends in law school do, but that's not something that I was, you know, taught in any class. I certainly read it, you know, critical race theory when I had an opportunity to do so, but that was on my own. This was not some sort of common practice, and I heard people talking about it as if it was something you know, common day. Everyone was talking about critical race theory, and of course, you know, within ten minutes I realized, Oh,

they don't know what critical race theory is. They think that means that whenever you talk about black history, you know, that's critical race theory, you know. And so it's I think it's so strange that at the very same moment that there's a lack of knowledge, as a lack of knowledge of the history in particular. Here I am pushing, as so many others, trying to get this history out into the world, at the very same moment people saying, no,

don't teach these things. Don't teach these things because it's going to cause problems in our schools. And I think that's disheartening because I, you know, I teach courses at the college level. I'm mostly teach students you know, who are white. You know, I you know, I'm always happy to teach students from any background, but but I teach

at the predominant white institution. Most of my students are white, and most of my students walk into the classroom with very little knowledge of even topics like the Civil Rights movement. They know Martin Kicking Junior, they know Rosa Parks, and then I mentioned Fan Luhimer and everyone stunned, right, And I talk about Ella Baker and never heard of her. And so I'm glad that they're taking my courses. And many of them have chosen to be there because they

just want to learn. But the fact is that most people could in fact obtain a college degree, they could go on to law school, they could go on to med school and not have even heard, you know about Henrietta Lacks, for example, how many doctors you know learned about Henrietta Lacks just recently. What does that tell you about the history, and and and that is dangerous, and you know, when you don't even know the history of medical racism and how you know, people's lives have been

shaped by by all of these developments. And so I just think it's so I think important in this moment to push against all of these efforts to restrict you know, um, the information that I think is so vital in knowing the history of black people, in knowing the history of every marginalized group in the United States. Yeah, it's just you know, you realize that it isn't none of these

things are done by accident. And I think that you know, even the word disheartening doesn't you know, doesn't really fully grasp what it means to know that we've been gas lit our whole lives, right, and that the intention behind that is to uphold a system of oppression that creates a invisibilized cast system in this country, because we don't readily articulate that we have a cast system, but we have all of the confines and the policies that say otherwise, right,

And you know, and I just find you know, for people like yourself or academics like yourself, that do you feel attacked in this day and age. Do you feel do do you feel do you feel more I don't want to put feelings in your mouth, but you know, do you feel more guarded, more attack, more on edge? As an academic in this particular discipline of history and American history at that of the twenty of the twentieth century. What what are your feelings and the feelings of your

colleagues in the field. It's not easy. And I have been, um, you know, writing I think just certainly been writing books, been writing opeds. Been You've been writing about these topics, uh, for for some time. I think a lot has shifted. You know. When I write about black history, now, um, it doesn't even matter, you know how controversial the topic. I mean, it appears that as soon as I even talk about black people at all, I will get hate

mail with it, you know. And I sometimes chuckle that I know when my opeds have have been released, because you know, like clockwork, the emails come in, the nasty comments come in. Um, And I'm thinking to myself, people are angry why because I am telling the history. I'm not making up stories. I you know, I'm giving you the facts. And all you have to do is be open to learning you know, click the links, read the books, and you see that this is not made up. This

is a reality. When I talk about racial wealth gap, I'm telling you, you know about history. I mean, I'm telling you about slavery. I'm telling you about Jim Crow. I'm telling you about all of these systems that were in place that ultimately contributed to this wide divide. And you have to know that. You know, how do you

address economic inequality if you don't know the history. And so there is so much resistance I think in this particular moment, and so of course folks like me are easily targeted and attacked by others who don't want these narratives told. And you know, part of what I have to do is pushed that aside and keep pushing. I mean, quite frankly, I have to draw inspiration from folks like

I to b Wells. I have the draw inspiration from folks like Fanny Lue Hammer, Annie who Hammer could have walked away a long time, you know, I mean quite frankly. You know, there are days when I say to myself, how did Hammer keep going? I mean, people came after her, you know, people tried to take her life. Why because she was trying to encourage people to exercise the right

to vote as a citizen of the United States. That was the crime that she committed, and she had to look over her shoulder, and she had to be constantly you know, you know, targeted, because she just wanted to play a part in building this inclusive democracy that we say we are committed to according to the ideals of the Constitution. Right And so you know, that to me is a reminder that what I'm going through, what so

many others are going through, it's not new. It's really part of the process, and quite frankly, it's part of being black in the United States. And so as troubling as it is to see, you know, a shift that I think in the in the general sort of you know atmosphere, it's also not surprising to me. You know, as a historian, you have such a deep and wide perspective of America, and I often find myself getting really upset and saying things like nothing has changed, and you know,

everything is still the same. If if if a black man, we can watch his murder happen, right eight minutes in forty you know, seven seconds, and nothing changes, right still, no law, right still still know nothing. We watch black people get cornered, shot down, you know, strangled, murder, I say,

nothing has changed. As a historian, how do you put spin perspective on where you think America is in its growth towards actualizing its values and creed that it's it purports around the world, but we don't necessarily feel it here as black people. Well, there are several things that come to mind. One of the things that I often reflect on, which in a way I think we have experienced it just in the last couple of months, over

the last year. But I find strange about and I'll say strange, you know, about American history or even just the way people respond. There is always a tendency to, you know, recognize the problem, then come up with some strategy, you know, and maybe that is the passenger for law. And so here I'm thinking about, you know, which I think is probably the best example, the Voting Rights Act. So you have the Voting Rights Act, which is past the nineteen sixty five. This is absolutely a pivotal moment.

It's one that people celebrated as they should have celebrat. It opened up the doors for so many people who could not cast a ballot and it finally cracked the door open. But what is interesting is that when when the door cracked open, a lot of people sort of stepped back and sit and said, Wow, this is wonderful. We've accomplished what we set out to accomplish. Now we're fine. And guess what, we realized that we're not fine. You know, for so many people, it took either Shelby Decision of twenty,

you know, thirteen to realize that we're not fine. But the reality is that the Voting Rights Act has been on their attack for as long as it's been around. And so what's interesting about American history is every time there is a particular gain or win, we know the backlash is coming, and we know that people are going to try to pull back in terms of what had been accomplished. And yet we somehow don't realize that we cannot rest right. We somehow imagine that we can celebrate

and and and and sit down. And so here we find ourselves constantly in this, you know cycle, because we see these moments and we celebrate and then we say, aha, we've achieved it. We're done. Instead of saying, aha, we've achieved it, let's make sure, we keep fighting to protect that right. Let's not give up, because in fact, every time there is a win, there will be an attempt to roll back right, all of them, you know. So it's just I mean, so this is what I find

so intriguing. And um, I think you know, have we made progress? Yes, we could talk about the ways we've made progress. But the irony is every time we have made progress, we've also taken steps backwards, right, And and that's partly why I think when it comes to activism, people don't like to hear this because you you know, you want to be involved in the struggle where you can see ahead of you that things are going to change. You don't want to be part of a struggle where

maybe you actually won't witness to change. Maybe it's not until maybe your children will see it, maybe your children's children will see it. Right, if we accept that this is, I mean that we have to be in this for the long haul. Listen, you're going to march on the streets, You're going to make demands. Folks are going to laugh in your face, and you've got to go back into the streets and make demands and they'll laugh again. And you have to be willing to go back into the streets.

You see what I'm going with this. You have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing exactly. And you can't just say, oh, well, you know, people aren't listening or it didn't work out, so we failed, you know. I mean I think even recently, I know, there was a lot of debate, a lot of critique about like defund the police. And I've heard people you're saying, oh, you know, this is you know, it didn't work and it caused people to get angry. And and I say, but take

a look at the stats. You know. For me, when I see that, you know, seven percent and voted against you know, changes that could have, you know, ultimately moved us closer to reallocating funds from a police department to actually opening up social services in a community. I see that as a step closer. Why because I'm thinking to myself, probably ten years before, I think a lot more people would have resisted that idea. The fact that you actually have people willing to vote and say, okay, we can

support this. Granted, yes, the majority opinion challenged it, but that's not the point. The point is that things are shifting. People are getting upset, but others are listening and others are being transformed. Right, this is a long haul. This is not a quick thing. It's a long haul. And so that's I think the way to view American history

is to understand. You know, when Fanny Luhamer in nine sixty four stood up at the Democratic National Convention, she did not know she could not have foreseen the passage of a voting rights act a year later. She didn't have a crystal ball. She walked away feeling really discouraged and feeling that she had failed. She didn't fail, but

she didn't know it then, right. So if we take that perspective, I think it will change a lot of how we approach political activism, and we'll stop often looking for the quick answer that quite frankly, may not come. My last question for you, and I have enjoyed this conversation so much, My last question for you is this, you know, learning more about America and uncovering so many ills, right, so many devastating things that have been done in this

country's name, right and hidden? Right? How do you maintain a level of appreciation and like hopefulness for this country when your work is too on earth? All of the things that were purposefully hidden, the cruelty, the trauma, the tragedies. How do you stay hopeful about who we are as a nation and where we're going? You know, I believe that it's my life's calling, and in fact, it takes me right back to why I wrote this book until

I'm free. Once I encountered Hammer and I saw how this disabled black woman from Mississippi with a sixth grade education, with limited financial resources could use her voice and could stand up in the face of injustice and make a difference. I stopped making excuses for myself. I stopped focusing on what I didn't have, and I started to focus on what I did have. And I believe that what I have is a gift as a writer and as a researcher, and so I set out to become a professional historian

to uncover those stories. I am committed to telling the stories of people who look like me, you know, and so I you know, I just I'm very clear about why I've devoted my life to this because learning that history transformed me, and I know it's going to transform someone else, and so that keeps me going. It keeps me hopeful because I believe that every book that I write could cost someone to change their perspective. It could cost someone to open up their eyes to the reality

around them. It could it could compel someone to be part of the effort to make this nation better. And if I've done that, quite frankly, you know I've accomplished everything then that I set out to accomplish. Takeisha Blaine, The book is Until I Am Free. Fanny lu Hamer's

enduring message to America. I can't thank you enough for making the time to join woke f And I can't thank you enough for your work, your words, and your continued effort to make us all conscious to who this country is and who we have the ability to be. I appreciate you, Thank you so much. That is it for me today. Here, Folks on woke f as always Power to the people and to all the people. Power. Get woke and stay woke as fuck.