The System is Burning

citizens and our safety are being eroded. And in today's conversation we take a look at the hearing that just recently took place in Tennessee that was supposed to be about how to make schools and environments more safe after the Covenant shooting that took the lives of several children and adults. It was the shooting that would spark massive protests in Tennessee and then have the Tennessee Three with two the Justins being expelled from the state House for

daring to stand up for and with their constituents. And so what you will hear in the conversation with Jonathan and I today is just my exasperation at the fact that people are trying desperately to work inside of what is a failed fucking system right where we are beginning to understand that the gerrymandering that has taken place in Red States. Hasn't just suppressed the voice and the vote of Democrats and people of color, but it is now right suppressing the vote and the voice of white people

as well. And what happens right when those that have readily enjoyed privileges in this country because of the color of their skin are now all of a sudden being lumped in with everyone else that they were fine to ignore, whose rights were being violated as well. And so you see now this broadening, as Jonathan will put it, of a coalition of people who want safety. And the fact is is that we have very different siloed conversations about liberty and freedom in this country and safety not being

a part of that. And for me, living in a free society means that it is free from violence and free from harm things that we can actually fucking control. But what the Tennessee government shows, as well as the entirety of the Republican Party, is that there is no negotiation with terrorists. There is no negotiation with people that see their Second Amendment rights as a zero sum right.

But every other right can be chipped away at and essentially eroded, so long as you can carry a gun you see in a video that is now going around on social media of white mothers sitting silently and holding up signs that say kids over guns, and they were forcibly removed by the sheriffs in that courtroom, a courtroom that allows people to carry guns, right, but can't carry

a fucking sign And we think that that's okay. So, you know, what Tennessee is showing, what Ohio has shown as it pertains to abortion in Wisconsin, as it pertains to abortion, is that they the tables have indeed turned in a very real way when it isn't just the people of color right and the quote unquote lives that are being silenced. When you recognize that now they are coming for you as well. And so now what are

you going to do? Jonathan and I get into this conversation and so much more on this week's chat with our in house doctor. Folks, you know that whenever we have the opportunity each week to sit down with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Mepzil, we are always leased.

And you know by now you have all probably seen a clip from a Tennessee hearing where moms women, white women who are holding up signs quietly holding up signs were forcibly removed from a courtroom that readily allows guns and people's activated Second Amendment rights, but clearly not their First Amendment rights, the right to assemble, the right to protest,

and do so again. I want you to understand, quietly just sitting and holding up a sign, Jonathan, give us a picture into what we're seeing in this video that has now gone viral.

And the reason that that special session was going to come up was that Governor Lee, our governor who was among the most strident and you know, unflinching supporters of guns everywhere and gun rights. He's signed a bill to allow gun rights everywhere in a Burretta factory a couple of years ago. He's done everything to overturn state gun laws. He's as pro gun as it gets. We had a mass shooting at the Covenant School in Nashville last year. People we talked about and it hit home for a

lot of people. It was a Christian school in the middle of our town. A lot of people knew people there, including Governor Lee, who their family lost some friends in that shooting. They were friends with some of the educators. I think the assistant principal or one of the principles was killed who they knew, and other people, and it was a moment of reckoning. Right. It's different to be politics on one side, but when it hits home, people feel often differently about these kind of things. And so

in the aftermath, there were protests. Remember there were people in the streets, and Governor le said, it's time for us to do something, and so he proposed a couple of things. He proposed a watered down version of what's called a red flag law, let's get hands out of the guns, out of the hands of danger people. And he proposed a special session, which was what was supposed to happen earlier this week. And so he said, we're

going to set this thing for the end of August. Now, when he said, we're going to have a conversation about gun safety and see if we can find some common ground. This even for this guy who's so pro gun, put a target on his back. And all the pro gun people started coming out of the woodwork. The Tennessee Firearm Association, the Proud Boys, the Youth Keepers, everybody who we've seen on TV here this week started saying, no compromise whatsoever.

That's their position. No reform. Government has no role whatsoever in this issue. And so finally he pushed through, we're going to have this session. And so point number one is this was part of that quote unquote special session. Number two is that the whole thing was a sham.

So I don't mean to laugh, it's very serious, but it's just as we got closer and closer to the date, what was being proposed really was pretty clearly just not going to It wasn't about background checks, it wasn't about rent flag laws, it wasn't about gun safety, it wasn't about keeping guns out of school. The things that were being proposed was increasing the mandatory sentence for juveniles conflcted of crimes and not mandating anything and all these kind

of things. And so as this thing started heading toward what was going to happen, people started getting upset because they were like, wait, this isn't a session about anything except for incarcerating young adults of color. Basically, that's what that's what it was looking like. And so people started

getting mad. And then the third thing is, as that started happening, the right wing conservative you saw them on TV Tennessee en passed all these bogus bills that said there'll be no expression, no conflict, no voicing of anything, no loitering. They actually won't let anybody stand. They have to be walking in the hallway. All these like ridiculous bills that were clearly aimed at anybody who was coming

out in support of gun safety. And so initially people were bringing posters in I mean, and the posters were heartbreaking. The posters were I lost a child in the Covenant school shooting, or please let's save our children and stuff like that. But they said no posters anything like that. So people started wearing T shirts and holding up little you know, stuff on their iPhone or little pieces of paper. Now again, as you say, this is a place where you can carry a loaded gun into the chamber, but

not a piece of paper. So somebody held up a piece of paper and they were escorted out, and ultimately what we're seeing in this special session is the whole thing was in fact to sham. The hearings that really matter lasted thirty seconds or less. All this mobilization, all this work, youth groups had come out in support of gun safety, all these people had written briefs. I was part of a brief, all these kind of things, None of it really mattered. It was all a kind of

false front. And so we're left with this, which is that at the end of the day, the rules against protests are now stronger, the gun safety feels farther away, and it really feels like a moment of boiling over in Tennessee, honestly, because there is so much anger and frustration that those moms holding up those signs represent seventy five percent or more of the population who want people

to do something. And so I don't know, I've rambled on a lot, but I do have one more take on point here, which is I think the takeout point is the government is not working for the people right now in this regard. And everybody thinks of jerremandering as like a Republican's win and Democrats lose, which is true. But what we're seeing here is germandering also doesn't work

for Republicans. Right, seventy percent of everybody wants some kind of gun safety, and that includes Republicans across the state, but their political leaders are not beholden to them either. In other words, there's no way that these guys are going to lose their seats, and so in a way, even Republicans now, even conservatives who are gun owners but want some kind of regulation, so the next mass shooter can't go to nine stores and buy nine guns. Kind

of similar to what we saw. Their political leaders are not beholden to them either, and so in a way, germandering destroys our system in a million ways. And it's not just Democrats Republicans. It's also that elected leaders are not beholden to even Republican voters who want some change now, and so in a way, it's kind of a mirror of the larger dysfunction of the American system. Now I

realized that was a fifteen I just went on. But I feel very strongly about this and it's the topic of my next pert.

the goal. But I think that as the Republican Party has shifted into an authoritarian, white supremacist, patriarchal cult under the leadership of Donald Trump, the goal is no longer just to silence Democrats. That to your point, it is to silence people in general, and to make you know, fiefdoms of the state seats and city council seats, and so that these people can govern without reproach, without having

to fight and work for people's votes. I want to ask you, you know, you could see it partially from the video. You could see these women shaking, right like I'm assuming, shaking and anger, shaking in fear, you know, for having to, you know, put up this this fight for kids, right, What is the mood when you say that seventy percent of the people in Tennessee want something to happen and thirty percent much as is mirroring the nation,

thirty percent are instituting minority rule. What is the overall mood when you say that Tennessee is at a boiling point right now?

session was in some people. I mean, if you read like the op ed in the New York Times earlier this week, there's a Tennessee based columnist from the New York Times who said, I have guarded optimism. And the optimism wasn't just that there would begun reformed. The optimism was that the system would actually work. The system would work.

And so I think part of the issue is you have this build up to saying, look, we've had all this really messed up stuff happen, but now now in the halls of Justice and the House of the People, the system is going to work, and we're going to show how we're responsive and the fact that then you gabble that close after thirty three seconds. I think that people are left with a couple of options. I mean, one is to tune out and say, man, the system,

there's nothing we can do. My new book that comes out in January actually looks at Tennessee gun politics, and I argue that we need to reboot the gun control movement that arguing for red flag laws and trying to convince people of background checks is always going to be a loser. And so I argue that we need a new approach to gun reform that is built on community

building communities that are safe. But I worry that the frustration leads to people either checking out or getting frustrated or not working within the system in a way that creates this perpetuating cycle. And I honestly don't know. I don't I get asked what's the answer all the time, and I don't know if the system I mean think cause I'm.

within the system. Right, when you had the Justines that were expelled from this state House for daring to protest and show support with their constituency, they fought withinside of the system to get their rightful seat elected seats back, right, you have these people that are saying, I have a right to protest, I have a right to stand up for children and safety in my community, and they're being expelled right in the same way that the Justins were

being expelled. So how do you how do you tell people to continue operating inside of a system that is not representative of the people and not interested in collaboration. They're not interested in coming to the table because they're saying there is you're trying to negotiate with terrorists. That's what this is.

this country. It does not work for the seventy percent of people in Tennessee that want to be able to go to houses of worship and send their kids to school and like go along their daily lives without like

the potential of being shot and killed. And so I'm like, so if the system, if you're trying to tell people to vote, tell them to get elected officials that matter, and the system has been rigged so that those elected officials are no longer beholden to the constituents, I'm like, what is where's the recourse?

reaction to what Republicans are going to do. Because regardless of what the people do, if they do it peacefully with a sign, if they burn down a fucking gas station, if they you know, haul out into the street, if they boycott, Republicans are going to do what they're going to do. And so I just I guess I'm at a point and I feel for the people in Tennessee, just like I feel for people all across this country that just want to live safe. You know, that's what

freedom should look like. Freedom should look like safety, I.

serves interests that are not my interests. Maybe after twenty four when what we're seeing in Tennessee is everywhere, maybe down the road or something like that. But I just

I still feel like elections matter. Maybe not this particular Tennessee a thing, But so the question for me is, how can you say the system sucks and we all feel disheartened and clearly here's an example of how it's weighted against us, and also show up and vote for Democrats in twenty four because having Trump as president would be a material difference to people's lives. So that's kind of I don't know. Do you see that question?

people don't vote in twenty twenty four. I think people are very well aware that this is going to be you know, they thought twenty twenty was consequential, that twenty twenty four is life or death, and so I think that that is clear. But I'm really talking about people who are living inside of these red states where their

votes and their voices don't matter. And so my point being, how do you continue to tell people to show up at these meetings and like work within a system that is absolutely rigged like I you know, and of course what would the normal recourse be take these motherfuckers to court? But the court system is also rigged. And so I'm like, at what point right in these states do the people say we got to find another path because this path

is blocked. And that's what I'm saying is just like if seventy percent of people in Tennis believe that freedom is equated to an equal to safety and the people that are in power is saying fuck you and your safety, and you're saying, well, I'm going to come to your next meeting and I'm going to protest, and they're going to say no, because the next meeting, we're locking the doors, right, And there's nobody for you to vote for, because we've rigged and you know, and put our tipped our hand

on the scale. I'm just like, so, what are they supposed to do? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, they walked out of schools, they took over the state capital. What the fuck else are they supposed to do?

there are centrist traditions in Tennessee. Now I'm not like, oh, let's go back to the good old days, but I do know that the ways that the right wing, this is what I'll show in my next book, The Ways the right wing took power in Red States, was a fifty year movement that started from grassroots elections for school boards and zoning boards and election boards and all these kind of things, and it became inevitable. But it wasn't

always inevitable. The NRA was a grassroots movement for a very long time, and so I do want to highlight that there are movements like the Young Leaders program that David and other people are doing that is specifically looking at having people under thirty run for local positions in red states, for school boards, for zoning boards, stuff like that.

And I guess I know that's in the system, but I think that's a great idea, which is like, let's see how the other side took power and let's reverse that, which is building a power base from the bottom up, which I think think would be really challenging to the power structure of a place like Tennessee because it's, as we saw from these things, a bunch of older, conservative

white people. But I think if young people start running for all these offices and really start mobilizing, I would think I would think that that would have a real impact. So that's my centrist in the system statement of support for this new organization. But for me, I think that that's a strategy that I would support. Does that make sense now?

at the state and local level. At the same time, I'm just like, so, then what the fuck does the next fifty years look like?

Like I just I guess a part of me is like, this system needs the system is breaking, This system is burning right in so many different ways, And I don't know if we have fifty years, right, I don't even know if we have five, right, So like that's that's kind of and you know, for people listening to this, they'll be like, oh, danielis you know, being hysterical? But I'm like, no, I'm like, if you've been paying attention

to what all is happening. Everything that you said at the beginning is right, because the gerrymandering didn't just stop with Democrats. It didn't just stop with black and brown people. It is now white people that are being affected by the things that they have you know, since been like, oh it's fine, it's fine, I can still vote, I still have my rights, and now they're like, oh wait,

this was about me too. There is a very big racial element to this that is now affecting white people, and I'm wondering, is that something that has not been tapped into and should be.

was happening and spoke very powerfully. But the movement is much broader now because it also had these just the pain of these covenant mothers, like a one who lost like a daughter who's like seven or eight or nine, years old and stuff like that, like within this year. And so I think that I think that and I'm going to answer this very pollyanna ish. The broader the coalition,

the better. So even if it took a lot of people to get here, I think that if we have a coalition that is the waffle House trauma and the Covenant trauma, that's a broader coalition, and I think it's a more powerful coalition. And so I do think that there's this thing of it. And then they came for me and I want but hey, welcome to the party, you know, honestly, because the issue is not just who's

impacted by mass shootings. It's also that what's happening in Tennessee is what will happen in New York and Boston and Los Angeles if we don't if the next election puts somebody like Trump in power. And so in a way, the strategies of resistance in Tennessee are going to be important for New York and for other Blue cities because look at what the Supreme Court's doing. They're nationalizing a

lot of these things. And so in a way, I think I think that that circle broadening is what needs to happen to get people on the same boat of look what we do right now matters and we have connections that we didn't realize.