The Reticence of Racism

your Girl Danielle Moody recording on location. Folks. Today, I get into a conversation with our good, good friend, doctor Jonathan Metzel, and I get into a conversation with him about how the gun laws and the gutting of states rights as it pertains to creating their own safe gun law measures like New York are a part of the larger Republican strategy to destabilize Blue states, blue cities in their quest one the gun labby for greed for increased sales,

but for the Republican Party to be able to and point to these cities that they have destabilized and say, oh, yeah, this is why you need to have us in power. This is why we need to be the ones in control, because these cities are raging out of control. Well, they're raging out of control, and they're not because I live in New York City and it is not raging out

of control. Yes, there is crime that is happening and has always happened, But what I get into with Jonathan is about the narrative that is used to discuss crime and why Democrats haven't found a retort to their message to the Republicans message of a law and order You know, we know that it's steeped in bullshit, right, they don't care.

If we actually cared about law and order, then we would invest in public schools, we would invest in communities, we would create jobs, we would do things that don't have people use crime as a last resort. Now, look, I am not creating sob stories for violence. But what I'm saying is that if putting more cops on the streets doesn't actually change anything, then what are at some of the alternatives that are not just get rich quick

schemes for the police budgets? Right, So, Jonathan will weave together the dots very clearly on you know, the issue that I have been talking about a lot, which is the rise of white domestic terrorism, the rise in this quote unquote appeal to white anxiety and how it is affecting not only the upcoming midterm elections, but frankly the way in which we're developing policies and how those how

and why certain policies are developed. I got to say this as we only have but five days until midterm elections. One of the things that is consistently pissing me off, as I know that it is pissing off many of you. Is this consistent narrative around the fact that all of the polls are shifting to Republicans. Once again, let me say this, I don't give a fuck about the polls.

I really don't. I never have. And I know that there are polsters out there that are like, no, there's a science to this, in a nuance to this, No, there is not. In all honesty. What it is is being able to ask questions in a certain type of way to be able to conjure out the outcome that you want. The only things that matter right now with five days left until the election until polls close is what I should say. Five days until polls close is

how many people actually fucking show up. So if you are listening to the media right now and allowing them to conjure up a state of anxiety or make you feel like your vote doesn't matter, then the Republicans are succeeding. Right then the media is succeeding. The only polls that matter right now are the ones that people are going to that they are putting their physical bodies in, or that they are mailing their ballots into That's what matters, folks.

So don't allow this conversations to deter you or make you feel like, all hope it's lost, because I'll tell you this, regardless of if Democrats win or lose, we're still fighting. This shit is not over. Just like how we thought that, oh my god, we line up and we bring Biden into office and then we can go back to sleeping well and taking deep breaths. No, because what we know to be true is that the Republicans are coming, and they are unrelenting, and they are not stopping.

They don't give a fuck about these elections, right, So, regardless of the outcome, what we know to be true is that we have work to continue to do. I am a big proponent in rest and rage, right. I rest so that I have the energy and the focus to be able to think ahead, to be able to create strategies, have conversations, We've narratives that get people bill activated. But what we all have learned since two thousand and sixteen is that the work is not done. Saving our

democracy doesn't just happen on election day. It is a daily practice. And so if we are not moving in that way if we are not recognizing that not one election alone is going to save us. It is going to be a series of elections at the state, local, and federal level over the course of years and decades that are going to save us. Right it's the layered strategic approach that is going to ultimately save us. But if there's nothing else that we need to hold right now,

it is this without vigilance. Without vigilance, our democracy dies. It is not enough to just tweet, It is not enough to just talk. We have got to vote, and then we have got to continue to stay vigilant to make sure that the people that we vote for continue to make decisions based on our best interests and not the interest that is accruing on their accounts. Do you

know what I'm saying? It is time that we recognize and we own our own power, because guess what, folks, they are getting ready to wield these gavels and wield these batons, and they are coming after every single one of our rights. So understand, election day is not when the work is done, it is when it truly truly begins. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend doctor Jonathan Metzo.

It's no secret that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comitian and commentator Francesca free Erantini for a lighter take on the heavy stuff. Each week, the Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, and activists to break down the issues in a way that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get the Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Scottify, Stitcher and

streaming on YouTube and Twitch friends. You know that whenever we have the opportunity to speak with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, to talk about all the things from guns to COVID, the rise of white resentment, it is a treat. And Jonathan, today I want to talk about one thing. You want to talk about another. So it's going to be dealer's choice. Which you are going to be the dealer today? So let's begin with guns and New York. Tell us the latest on the wild wild

West that is becoming America. Well, this is the you're actually the same topic, but you you'll only realize it of price start talking. So the issue is this, I've been living here in Tennessee. That's why I am today down in the South studying gun culture, and there's been a particular playbook that the NRA and other gun dealers

have used to basically spread. I mean, if you went twenty years ago in Nashville, for example, if you told anybody you could carry a loaded gun into a park or into a bar, or in the trunk of your car into a government building, they'd be like, that's frigging preposterous. That's like anarchy. And now all those things are like second nature, and anybody who says I'm gonna we should have restrictions on guns is run out of town, like there's no university of the allegation. How did they get that?

How did they do that? They started this narrative that basically, your stuff isn't safe and your liberties aren't safe, and

guns are the ways that you can protect yourself. And it's not just about like because of course, the main cause of gun death is gun suicide or partner violence, but the sin of subtle messages in conservative newspapers, for example, saying black people might come take your stuff, or you might get mugged, or you might get you a gang banger might come, or a card Jacker, this is all the NA language, and it made people really anxious, and it was overt and covert, and it was also really over.

If you look at like NRA advertisements, they show black, angry black protesters. And what happened was because Tennessee was run by very NRA friendly judges and politicians and governors, they were just like, yep, the white people want guns because they don't make it mugged by the black people. And it led to what we have now, which is, you know, many more guns than people, out of control

gun everything, ridiculous situation. But as you know, half my life's in New York, and I always thought like, well, that'll never happen in New York because we're safe in New York. New York has reasonable gun laws. New York has common sense, and people just know the importance of living collaboratively in New York because you've got to take

the subway to work. But there was a Supreme Court case that we've talked about a million times in the show called Group, and it overturned New york S gun laws really in a very fundamental ways, and so New York does not have that safety lever anymore. That it's had for over one hundred years, which is a background of like common sense gun laws, which dramatically, dramatically opens the market for the n RA. All of a sudden, New York is open for business for the n RA.

And what does that mean. That means that a governor who's running for New York, for New York governor can use the n RA playbook that I've seen here in the South a million times over, which is crime is out of control. Black people are doing property destruction. Look at this thing on the subway. Don't you read the

New York Post. You we need guns here. And so it's just crazy to me that the Zelden campaign New York is running an NRA style campaign which would have been laughed out of New York even a year ago, even a year ago, But now because he has the backing of the Supreme Court, New York actually doesn't have the fallback anymore. And so the point I want to make him, though this is a long pre emplom is that New York is actually in a lot of danger

right now and doesn't realize it. That New York doesn't realize it because this narrative of white racial resentment leading to fears about crime and property crime, leading to the same kind of shit I've seen happen in Kansas City and in Nashville and all these places, a dramatic exhalation and arms race. And they're saying, oh, we want to stop crying. But what happens is you see much more of every kind of crime, homicide, theft of guns, partner violence, suicide,

accidental shooting. It all goes up when there are a million times more guns. So New York is fertile ground. And every time I try to tell people that, they're like, oh, no, that would never happen in New York, and I'm like, yeah, that's where every place else that's tried to resist this is said. And again, the safety New York has had, always has been, has been its gun laws, which it doesn't have anymore thanks to the shitty as Supreme Court.

And so the point is New York is in danger right now, and it's in danger because of the Zelden campaign, and it's in danger in a way that it does not realize. It doesn't realize that the NRA is running the NRA game on New York. And even like people I know, like relatives of mine, have said, holy crap, there's way too much I'm voting for law and order.

There's way too much crime in the subway, or what if there's another riot where they smash the windows of CBS and steal all the you know, antihistamine or whatever like. So it's the same thing, but New York, New York. Because New York has no history with this, they don't realize what's happening. And so this is the narrative of racial resentment, this is the narrative of guns, and it's being done to New York right now, and I feel like people don't see it. And the fact that zelden

Like is even in this guy is so mediocre. The fact that he's even in the room right now, I think is because people are too late to figure this out. So that's my rant, But I want people to realist.

So one, Jonathan, thank you for laying the foundation for the conversation that I did want to have on white racial resentment and how all of these things are connected, because I think that I don't think anyone is really getting what is happening, let alone folks that are in New York that don't recognize that one hundred year old gun law was struck down in the last session of the Supreme Court. Let alone, what the Republican Party is doing all across the country is that they are creating

an environment where nowhere is going to be safe. There is going to be no understanding or real borders between quote unquote blue states and red states, right, because the reality here is that if everywhere, if we can stoke fear so much in everyone, if one of the things that went along with toilet paper during the beginning of the pandemic was also the rising gun sales, if you can stoke so much fear, like everywhere is unsafe, and if everyone has a gun, that means that I have

to have a gun, even though I'm against guns, because if my neighbor has a gun and the people across the street have a gun and they you know, and everyone is a criminal and no one can be trusted, right then, like then I have to be packing as well. And so I wonder, you know, one of my one of my first questions for you, and I know that we we we often volley back and forth on this is what is the end game here? Right? Because what

what what happens? And this is this was part and parcel of your entire book around dying of whiteness, right, which is the idea that here you have healthcare trying to be brought in, nationalized healthcare in a way that other industrialized nations have nationalized healthcare, but because of America's legacy and fucking you know, in the renaiscence of racism, that they're willing to vote against their own best interests

and literally die. Right that, I'm looking at articles that are talking about you know, Trumpism and these objector districts and places where their mortality rate is sky high. All of these people are literally dying. And so I ask, what is the end result? Because when everyone is living in fear, when there is no safe place to be, what is the hope on the side of the far right, on the side of these gun zealots that this country

turns into. Because not only are they not making it safe for themselves for everyone else, it's also not going to be safe for them. So I'm trying to understand, like the right, what their rationale is. Well, I think there are two main things to think about. First, of course, is that if you are a gun manufacturer New York

in Los Angeles, and other places are huge markets. So the minute there's a mess shooting in New York and everybody rushes out to get a gun in New York, your stock goes through the route, right, So these are untapped mark So certainly you're doing the bidding of the gun companies, which are of course then in turn feeding

back and supporting campaigns like the Zelden campaign. Zelden has had an A rating from the NRA since twenty sixteen, and he's on record saying that if he's governor, he will overturn the Safe Act, which is the assault weapons ban and magazine capacity band in New York. So it's financially a windfall. If people in New York all start buying guns. It is a it's like it's like the

you know, mona from heaven for the gun sellers. And so their agenda is very clear, which is that the minute people in New York start getting afraid and barting guns, it's like the one place in the country where their market is not saturated. So they have a very clear

financial interest. And then the other thing, of course is I think I can give you five hundred examples of destabilizing diverse blue cities and states from fighting over ventilators in the beginning of the pandemic to trying to overturn Obamacare, which would really only impact places that adopted Obamacare, which

is like New York. You know, the idea to destabilize blue cities and states and show that black people and woke prosecutors, you know, they're just living like whatever, is actually really good for red states, right because it makes them prove like, oh, we're the true leaders and stuff like that. So two really kind of dystopian. But I have to say, quite real agendas that are served by this, And again I just don't think people realize, like, look

at Zelden. Anybody can look it up. Look at Zelden's twenty sixteen A rating from the NRA, Like the support is very clear right there. But give me a break that that dude is going to make New York safer his agenda that he's fronting it actually benefits from destroying you,

making it much less safe to prove a point. And so I just think right now, I don't know, to be honest, I'm really fucking pissed at the excuse me, at the Democratic Well, the Democratic response has not been highlighting the stakes here in any way, shape or form, And I just think it's like a pants on fire moment. Like New York places like that have to hold on because you don't have the backing. I mean, the Bruin

case in the Surfing Court said, you have. Any gun law has to justify its rationale based on the intent of the framers and ratifiers of the Constitution, which, hey, guess what, there were no R fifteens then, And so New York's gun laws are really in danger right now. And actually, how we think about New York is really in danger right now. And so I just don't think

we've been sounding the alarm in any way. And the fact that the Zelden has been allowed to get away with these safety claims I just think is a kind of failure of leadership right now. Hey there, I want to tell you about another podcast I think you'll love. The Brown Girl's Guide to Politics, hosted by a Shanty Gooler, the president of a Merge. BGG, is the one stop shop for women of color who want to hear and

talk about the world of politics. Join Ashanti this season as she talks to incredible women of color who are changing the face of politics. And tackling some of the most important issues basing the United States, from reproductive justice to voting rights, to climate change and more. Tune in every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Here's the thing. Twenty to thirty three percent of the country is lost. Right, and we continually talk about the messaging dysfunction on the

side of Democrats on a whole host of issues. Right, whenever Republicans claim law and order, our rebuttal is like, oh, but we too are about law and order. And here's a billion dollars to the police forces that kill black and brown people unrelentingly. Right, And so you know, in your research, I'm not trying to convince the twenty five and thirty and thirty percent of the population that is never going to fall in line with what it is

that rational people want to think about. So if we're looking at you know, I guess like the sixty five to seventy five percent of the population that is less that is left and these two are people that are susceptible to fear and anxiety. What is the messaging that democrats need to be What is it? What is the rebuttal for law and order? Well, the thing is you

can co opt the crime narrative. In other words, I think we've we've had a reason with a very deep emotion that's being manipulated on the other side, which we've done all on like the right does all this stuff with critical race theory and instead of like fighting back with emotion, emotion that is equally evocative. I mean, that's kind of the field you got to play on right now.

We went on TV and said, well, critical race theory is just an obscure legal theory taught in the law schools from the nineteen seventies, Like we actually tried to reason it. And now they're saying crime, crime, crime, and we're saying, well, crime is actually much lower than it was in the nineteen nineties. Like that's not the right answer. You have to acknowledge people's fear. Right now, people are afraid of crime and crime is on the rise, and we,

you know, we don't. So I think saying you know, I just think that co opting the crime narrative and drowning them out by saying, you know, here's our big crime initiative and aren't you on board, like make them respond to us. That's kind of the only card you can have right now is to co opt the narrative and then turn it in your I mean again, And let me be clear, I think the Democrats have done a shitty job. Oh my god, I'm so bad today. I think the Democrats have done a bad job of

responding to people's emotional concern about crime. Like people are afraid on the subway. Now it's just an objective fact. And so I think, you know, it's like, we're taking your concerns seriously, and here's what we're doing about it. And why aren't the Republicans on board with it? And here's our ten part plan? I don't know. Unfortunately, that's

the terrain we've got to be on. It's not telling people that crime is lower now than it was in the eighties, because hey, we're not in the eighties right now, and so and so I just think we've had to reason our way out of it. And I can tell you, like, their construction of crime is ridiculous because it doesn't like the most gun death has gunn suicide. It doesn't account for mass shootings, even it's you know, it's all property

crime and shootings by black people. That's kind of what they're saying, but you've got to see the field they're playing on and then amplify it and co opt it. I mean, that's that's really what you have to do. And so we should have been saying, we take your

concerns seriously. The crime is the most important thing to ask, which the Governor's kind of tried to do, but not in a way that it was believable, but make them respond to you by co opting that narrative and then saying we're doing this like in a way people can see, and I just don't. I think they thought it was like, you know, it's something that people care about in their

really daily lives. So you need to be the one to set the terms of the debate, which means taking the crime story and then telling your version of that story and making the other side respond to your version. But instead, all of a sudden, two weeks to go in the election, we're playing catch up because we were not nimble enough when all this stuff on the subway

was happening and all that stuff. You know, what's really interesting is that for me right as a as a New Yorker, I won't one work from home, but also don't really take the subway anymore. And it has nothing to do with crime. It has everything to do with the fact that, like, I don't want to be around that many people. I don't think that it's no longer a novelty to be squished into a subway car, given the fact that we had monkey pox, COVID, like all of these things, and you know, like, for me, it

isn't it isn't safety. However, I do see the ways in which the New York Post and other conservative like rags, you know, amplify If there is a mugging on the subway, then it's all of the subways there are muggings. If there's somebody that has unfortunately been pushed to their death on the subway, then it's like every day somebody is being pushed to their death on the subway. I was at a wedding and ly of my friend and her you know, she has members of her family that have

never been to New York. Their question was, is it dangerous? Is New York? You know? Is it like? Is New York City dangerous? And I'm like, do do I look like I would live in a place that's like do I look like because some type of warrior to you that like I would be taking my life in my own hands every day, and so it is about the storytelling. And I still am, I still am uncertain about Oh, Lauren Order, Lauren Order. And you say crime is the

most important thing. And it's just like you know, Hope put cameras is putting cameras on every subway, which frankly they should have had before. Um you know is do you am I dragging you down with the with the with the invective here I love it? Um No, I mean the show is called woke af I just try not to curse with you on Jonathan, but like I curse on a regular basis. Um, But like I wanted, I do think that we always our narrative is always reactionary,

regardless of whatever the issue is. Democrats are and to your point, we never set the debate, we never set the tone and forced Republicans on their heels. And that's why we are consistently playing catch up. That's why we're consistently reacting to what is being said about us instead of telling people what we are about. Look, I was in New York last week. I had m bike with me. I played in a softball game, at Randall's Island. Then

I biked over to my friend in Harlem. In Harlem, we had a great drink on the street super Friend. Then I biked all the way down Manhattan and went over the willinsbri Bridge, and then I went to a party in Williamsburg, and then I went to dinner and green Point. And there were so many people out in New York, all different neighborhoods, all different stuff like that. And like I'll tell you right now, in Nashville, I could never do that. There's no way in hell. You know.

There's first of all, you can't even ride a bike here because there's no bike lanes and bike and the cars will run you over. We have the highest pedestrian fatality rate in the in the country. I think here there are no separate bike lanes. There's really very little foot traffic outside of downtown. So, like the things about New York are like awesome. So how can you go

on the offensive. How can you go on the offensive and say, here are the values of living in a place where it's really good gun laws, and here's where you can do and here's how we're going to make that cool. Like set the terms of the debate that way and say we respond to crime. But the great thing about New York is blah blah blah blah, like

set the term, set the term that way. Like I just feel like New York has stopped like advertising itself, you know, and the stakes right now are super super super high, and like, I don't know, I went to a Broadway show the other night and then walked around Times Square and then rode my city bike from Times Square back down to Brooklyn. Like there's there's no place in the country you could do that. And it was totally fine. But to say oh, it's totally fine, it's

not to dismiss people's fear of crime. It's like you have to take that concern and then tell a different story. And the other thing, of course that's frustrating is New York is safe because more people are coming back right now. So it just felt really unsafe during the pandemic because like everybody was gone, yeah right. So but again, you have to tell your story and then set the terms

of the debate, and we're not doing that. And I really think the governor has man I hope she wins, but I sure think she has not set the terms of this debate and let it be this other thing, you know, before we wrap up, I will say this, there have been a couple of people who I thought have done a really good job, but unfortunately it's only

a handful of people. I thought that Charlie Christ when he went against Ronda Santists in their debate, he was very clear about what Ronda Santists is doing to Florida, about how dangerous Florida has become, about how you're turning neighbor against neighbor. And I think that that is actually like a really important narrative. You know, we just had Halloween, right and I'm talking to my mother who lives in the suburbs, and she's like, oh, what, you know, how

is Halloween in you know, in Brooklyn. I'm like, it was. It was wonderful. I'm like, you see all of these neighbors sitting out on their steps and giving out candy, and all of the restaurants and the stores are open, and you know, my girlfriend was like, you know, this is probably the most community based holiday that there is. Right. All of our other quote unquote holidays are family, family oriented, they are container oriented, whereas Halloween is about the community

and about going out into space. And I think to your point that if you're not selling that right and saying why it feels safe, why you can walk around with your kids, why you can bike from one burrow to the other, Why there is like this sense of like camaraderie, right that even in the pandemic, there was a sense of we are New Yorkers, we will get

through this. We take care of each other, We're dropping all food to one another, and all of these things that if you're not, to your point, selling it right, then you're allowing somebody else to run away with the narrative about us and about progressive blue states in general that are just not real. I mean, because there's no one who wouldn't want to be able to hop on their bike and go see their friends and go, you know, go to a show and go do this thing and

that thing and feel comfortable and safe doing so. Yeah, thank guns in New York. That's not who we fucking are. Or get the fuck out of here, you know, Yeah, something like that. Like I'm just saying, like New York is not is not met that it's not New York has not met the challenge right now. It's really quite terrifying. I'm just saying, well, I will say this, Oh do we Lucy? Did I? Lucy? You know we're here? Um, I will I will say this that we need a motto.

We need a motto as a party, we need a motto. As a country, we need an entire rebrand. And I don't know if we're going to get the opportunity to do it right by the time that this episode airs. We only have but like you know, one hand worth of days until the midterm elections. Well, it's a reality. There's some clips from this interview, like, let's spread the word, let's get people out there. Man. I just I pray that the what we have seen is that so far,

over twenty million people have early voted. That always work both well for us. How many people show up on election day? How many people continue to hold their elected officials accountable. I hope that we have the opportunity to rebrand, and the only way we get to do that is if we vote. Doctor Jonathan Metzel, as always, thank you so much for making the time for wok F N four your rage today. We got f bombs in all. Sometimes we have to go there. I mean, I appreciate

that it's anytime. I mean, this is where we're we're at the uh you know, we're at the front lines here. We gotta you know, we gotta stand up right now. So yeah, that is it for me today, dear friends on woke a App. As always, Power to the people and to all the people power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.