The Next Generation Requires Hope

And so on today's show, I'm so excited to be joined by my friend, doctor Christina Greer, Associate Professor of Politics at Fordham University. And you know, I love having her on because, unlike me, she's a bit more hopeful about this current moment. And you know, she makes the good point that being a professor and working with young people the next generation of political scholars and leaders, requires hopefulness.

It requires that you can pass the baton to the next generation and hope that they take it further than you. The problem that I have isn't in my hope or faith in the next generation. It's the ship show. Apparently, you know that we are giving them to inherit. As I look at the current landscape and as I'm recording

this right now, yet another scandal unfolding about George Santos. That, of course, Kevin McCarthy either plays like he has amnesia or he is just that dumb, or he's just that conniving when it comes to holding on to his Fisher Price gabble, which is you know, sickening because I've said, you know, I used to hold members of Congress, those elected officials in such high esteem. I believe that, you know, they went into public service because they cared about, you know,

moving the country forward. They cared about the lives of the American people and creating policies and legislation that you know, would help make their lives better. But that's not where we are, and those days are long, long, long gone. But you know, you can't help but feel sick for it, you know, in your stomach. And you know, these latest scandals around George Santos and where he did he get his money from? Is that even his real name? Now?

He apparently was a drag performer in Brazil or you know, dressed up in drag and you know, frankly, I could give a fuck about whether or not he, you know, dressed up in drag. I just hate the fact that he's decided to associate himself with a party that is true trying to turn very magical, fun, joyful performers and

performances into something that is depraved. I hate the fact that you can't trust not a thing that that man has said, not about his own life or anybody else's, because he's lied about everything, and that he is a sitting member of Congress that is getting access to classify documents and we don't even know who he is, and that should make everyone sick, but apparently it doesn't bother Republicans, because how do they tell the difference between one grifter

and liar from another right. It's just that George Santos

is just so fucking bad at it. But regardless of that, I get into a conversation this episode with my friend Christina Greer about what she thinks about where our politics is headed, particularly, you know, the latest story around Solomon Pennia, the former Republican candidate in New Mexico that hired four hitmen to shoot up the offices of Democratic leaders, and the fact that that is not getting the kind of mainstream media play that it should an outrage, but instead

we want to talk about twelve documents found in Joe Biden's garage. It's like, can we pay attention to the things that are important, like the rise in political violence that is being, you know, fanned by the Republican White National Party. So, folks, you know, sometimes it is hard to muster the faith and belief that you know, young people are the future when the present is just so bleak. Coming up next my conversation with my good friend doctor

Christina Greer. Folks, you know that whenever I have the opportunity to chat with my friend, doctor Christina Greer, Associate Professor of Political Science at Fordham University, I am always quite pleased because she is, folks, much more optimistic than I am, and as a professor, I would assume first of all that you need to be. But Christina, this is our first show in the new year, so happy

new Year to you friend. I want to get your sense of what are you feeling and thinking about our current political climate and how we kicked off this one hundred and eighteenth Congress with a absolute shit show. Well, one happy new Year. I love spending time with you too. I think I'm always, you know, optimistic, because I teach young people, so I'm with the future of this country on a weekly daily basis. So I feel like we're

in good hands. And I love gen Z. I just think they're the Besneys, and they're interesting and they're heart scrabble. They're a lot more like gen Z like us, you know, because they're kind of growing up without everything. They didn't really have helicopter parents. Money is a little wonky, like everything's uncertain, and so they're kind of a transition generation the way we were, from technology and race and gender

and immigration. I mean, so many things were going on when you think about our childhoods, and same with them. It's a lot of tragedy, it's a lot of chaos, it's a lot of confusion. So I really feel good about them. As far as this new Congress, you know, yes, am I worried about our Democratic Republic. Absolutely? Am I worried about the world and other countries that are unfortunately following our suit with January sixth? Absolutely, do I think that,

you know, Joe Biden has done much better than expected. Yes, Do I think that Republicans have a good chance of overplaying their hands. Yeah, it's going to be a difficult Congress because the margins are so slim. You know, we have divided government where Republicans control the House now and Democrats control the Senate by a small margin. But you know, you have Hackem Jeffries, who's been under the tutelage of Lancy Pelosi for many years, and she's still there, you know,

sort of serving as a shadow mentor. Luckily for the Democratic Party, she's passed the baton and we're starting to think about a new generation of leaders. You know, Huckem Jeffries is early fifties, so it's not like he's a spring chicken. But like nobody is out into and octen nagarian. So I got a lot of octagenarians and septagenarians, you know, running stuff. You know Bernie Elizabeth Warren, Maxine Waters is eighty four, Like she looks fantastic, but she's eighty four.

You know, Nancy Pelosi eighties, you know, Joe Biden eighty. I still understand why these people don't want to spend time with the grandkids. But hey, that's just me right, Like I would think my mom's like I love being a grandma and she's like, you know, going to them all with my knees like whatever. So I think Republicans, because they've got so many factions and they've let the inmates start running the asylum, they have created not just a dragon, a series of dragons that they are now

trying to contain and quell. And these dragons have said, I will burn this country down to the ground if you don't give me what I want. And I believe them, right, I believe they'll do it. Um. But I do think that, you know, Democrats are at least trying to have a unified front, like we do have a lot of our own factions. But the blessing for Democrats is, you know, the progressive wing isn't ready to burn down the country

to get what they want. You know, they actually will sometimes, right, but I mean they're willing to come to the table with a good faith effort to at least compromise and try and have a more nuanced and adult conversation. You know, you also just have to look at the quality of candidates the Republican Party has come to. Please get what give us a rundown of the trail, Like, what's the long term strategy for them. You can't have a party with.

You know, Laura Bobert is one of your stars. Matt gets tiptok, like, you know, we we will get to the bottom of you and your predilection for young girls. Right, m You've got Marjorie Taylor Green, who's like a loon. I haven't even touched on George Santos, where you know, we don't know jokes about this man, but like he's clearly mentally unstable. If you're gonna lie about your mother, you're gonna you're gonna lie about literally everything in your CV.

And also, we're gonna get to the bottom of George Santos because you can't go from making fifty thousand or thirty five thousand dollars and being evicted every few months to all of a sudden having five million dollars and being able to loan yourself seven hundred thousand. Where is that money coming from? Now? Republicans aren't going to ask that question because we didn't ask that question of Marco Rubio when he was able to pay off all his debt.

We didn't ask that question of Brett Kavanaugh when he was able to pay off all his debt miraculously. And this is these are people who had hundreds of thousands of debt. So we know Republicans aren't going to do it. And the Rogerstone model for Republicans is just to like throw so many chaos bombs. We're just we're all over the police trying to grab truth and knowledge and figure out what's going on. And it looks like Democrats are just being petty and going after Republicans all the time.

It's like, well, y'all keep doing stuff, right, you keep breaking the law or potentially bringing the law, and we're trying to find out. But I think that like at some point Republicans are going to expose themselves for the fact that like they don't have any policies. But I mean, but Christina, we keep saying this, we do, we keep saying this, as Democrats said, at some point in time, you know, the American people are going to realize they don't have an agenda. I mean, they didn't put up

an agenda for the twenty twenty election. The RNC did not put up a new agenda, and they said, oh, let's run it back to twenty sixteen, like it was a mixtape. So you know what I'm saying. So it's like, at what point, because we keep way for people to be like, oh yeah, that's right. They really don't have nothing. They literally have nothing to offer the American people except a roll back to the nineteen fifties. But then it

doesn't happen. But here's the thing. I think you're talking about changing hearts and minds, which I don't think it is going to happen for the vast majority of Republicans, right because if you've been with this nonsense clown car since twenty sixteen, like you're in it, Okay, you clearly are comfortable in it, so be in it. But I think that the Democrats are getting more and more people who one or two things who either were like I don't really care, nothing really affects me. I don't know.

They're starting to pay attention a little bit more. And also younger people, not all young people, because we've seen Republicans are doing very well recruiting young people to their racist, fascist ideologies, but there are a lot of young people who are like, this is not what I want, Like I, you know, like I can have a complicated question conversation about a woman's right to choose like they are seeing nuanced conversations about the environment. They are seeing it's like

my education system did fail me. Wait a minute, like I could pay all this money to the government, and like my school wasn't like my friends school. Like that doesn't make any sense. There are a lot of people who were putting two and two together. They're frustrated that the quote unquote government looks a certain way, but they are also they are able to decipher the difference between these two parties because if you look at some of the disaggregated data for these close raisings that we saw,

which is really scary that they were close. Like I'm not saying like, oh, we're out of the woods, we were nowhere in it. I mean, we were praying about

herschel Walker. The man couldn't put together two sentences with a flashlight and some assistants, And we were praying to God that Reverend Warnock, and that not even Reverend Warnock, because we knew that he wasn't above average candidate, But we were praying to God that the people of Georgia, after all the gerrymandering, voter suppression and threats, that they would make it to the polls and be able to

do the right thing right. I just think, I guess for me, it's so, if we're not trying to change hearts and minds, because you say it's a lost cause, then what are we trying to change. I think we're trying to articulate a vision to get more people off the sidelines and more present and active because I think that we've put a lot of focus on national politics.

But what I'm seeing and I'm encouraged by, is a lot of people are getting a lot more active on local levels and paying attention on statewide levels because they recognize the pipeline. They recognize that these people hold a lot of power over their lives, and they also recognize that these people are in control of a lot of money.

So while I say, and I agree with you that the federal government and Joe Baia, nic Gamala Harris and the eighteenth Congress is incredibly important, I also would argue that on local levels and in state houses, people are starting to get a lot more savvy and pay attention. And I think that's what makes me a little more optimistic. I just wonder. I guess my feeling is, I do

believe that more people are waking up. I do believe that there is a collective consciousness of raising that has happened because I believe that Republicans are overplaying their hand. You have the job's decision, you have rollback in states' ability to have their gun laws right, like in New York City we saw them throw out one hundred year old bands. Right, it's all states rights as long as it is a state that is run by a Republican. If it's a Democrat, then there is no state rights. Right.

Then then the Republican stooges on the Supreme Court will ensure that we're all living in an unsafe environment. My question, I guess, is are we too late or is it that we are at a time in our politics where things need to burn to the ground. Do you know what I'm saying that we are We have gone over the cliff. And so what happens right in order for the next iteration to happen, is that the old one, the old systems, the old way of thinking, needs to

being totally incompletely decimated. So is it that, right? Is the hopefulness in that I just never thought in my lifetime that I would see the fire right? Yeah? And that's where we are. So you know, I think about this a lot, and I think this is where the two of us we end up in the same location, but we sort of come to the location from a

different different path. I'm more of an institutionalist and maybe even an increment lists right, So I don't think that it's helpful to burn things to the ground because we built some things right and like and also it's like, I think if it more of a house, it's like, but we're all in the house, so like if the house burns to the ground, like we're in the house where we actually don't have the luxury of standing outside

of the house. I'm cautious about like the burning to the ground theory because I'm like, no, then we all just burn to the ground. And maybe I just don't have the political imagination as an American politics professor to

imagine what that burning to the ground looks. I think if we look at sort of history and you know, Danny L. Hammer and Barbara Jordan and you know Cecy Abrahms, like you know, these three women that I'm kind of working on this book about right now, it's ways that you can you can uh take a part parts of the house room by room, but not the whole time, right, So for anyone who's ever done it's like, right, well, you know, I don't think we have the luxury of

doing a gut reno where it's like we just take down the whole house because we already have a second house that we can live in. We don't have that luxury. So when you do a gut reno and you don't have a second house, it's like, well, we all gonna live in the living room while we're doing the kitchen, right, and it's gonna be some growing paints. And I think we are in the middle of a gut reno. That's what I would argue. We're in the middle of it. And so how that new facade looks, how that new

room looks, is where we're feeling this tension. And you're like, listen, you know, if we've already always had this type of style, you're essentially I think you're burned to the ground. Is like, let's do something totally different. And I agree with that, but I'm saying, we got to be in the house while we're doing it. So how do we sort of figure that out? And I think for me, My strategy is to really pay attention to local and state level politics to help us get a better handle on federal

level politics. You know, to pay attention to these judges that come from these tiny you know, states or tiny courts that all of a sudden make their way up and their federal judges all of a sudden. You know, like to pay attention to these pipelines. It's like Matt Getz didn't come out of nowhere. You know. People who become members of Congress oftentimes you know, spend a little time in their statehouse. So if you're problematic, let's cut you off before you ever get to run for Congress.

You know, So like paying attention to the seedlings before they become mighty oak. You know. Speaking of which, I want to get your thoughts on Solomon Pennia, who yes to me, is a one poison apple from the poisonous orchard that is the Republican Party. Solomon penny Are, folks, as as you may be coming to understand, is the former GOP candidate for a House seed out of New Mexico who lost by a substantial amount, not a little bit,

but over thirty five hundred votes. Refused refused to to seede to his opponent, and then, as reports are coming out, has paid four different men as essentially hitmen, to shoot up the offices and the homes of his Democratic opponents and other Democratic officials within New Mexico. This man who had pictures at the January sixth insurrection, he was there pictures at Trump rallies, took a page out of Donald Trump's book not to seede his loss, regardless of how big,

and then as shifted to violence. Where is this headed, Christina? And how do how do your students right? Because when I was a student of political science, you're talking about, you know, things that were unlikely to happen, or political violence that was the norm in other countries but not in the United States. How do you talk about this moment? And the fact that I don't think that Solomon Pennia

is the last Oh absolutely not. I mean, listen, we didn't take it seriously when Gabby Giffords was right, right, And so the fact that we don't have a persistent, full throated denunciation by the Republican Party on a daily basis of like, we will not have this in our name, we will not have anyone affiliated with us doing this. We will not actually ignore this. We are going to see it again. And it's frightening and it's frustrating. We have a few deadly combinations. One, as you lay it out,

this is the Donald Trump playbook. I lose, I lose significantly, but I refuse to recognize the results. Right. Two, I get radicalized by the Internet that tells me that I'm

a victim and I should actually take what's mine. And then three, which is the deadly trifecta, is I also have access to guns on guns on guns, and everyone says it's okay for me to have guns in my party, and I should take pictures with them, you know, like how many female Republican candidates have pictures with them and their kids around the Christmas tree with big old guns, right finger on trigger, which every arms teacher will ever tell you never put your finger on the trigger unless

you were ready to pull it right. So these are people who don't even have proper training and don't they don't even know how to handle guns. So we have this, We have a man who, thank goodness, you know, the children who were in these democratic homes, you weren't harmed. No one was harmed, but we have Republicans are like, that's bad, but they're so afraid to say anything more because they don't want gun activists to come after them verbally or physically. Right, they want to keep that NRA

money going. They don't want Donald Trump to target them because he still can galvanize people in an Internet space. But also there's so many Republicans, going back to my earlier point, they have created dragons, and they are desperately afraid of what will happen if their own party turns again. And this is something we've never seen before. Right, we saw Donald Trump insult members of his own party. We never saw them It's like consulting people of your other party.

But there's so many Republicans now who were like, I help create this, I don't know how to control it, so now I have to tiptown to to around. And what it reminds me of Danielle, which is really frightening.

What so many families that are dealing with across the country is that you know, when you have these like radicalized sons who get radicalized on the Internet, and you've been buying them guns since their fourteenth birthday and then all of a sudden you realize your son is a threat to himself and others, but you're afraid to say anything because you're afraid that he'll turn on you. So it's like you just sent him to school every day

and just hope for the best. Like this is what we keep seeing around the country with families, and now we're seeing it in full own political party. And I

guess you know. My feeling here is the mainstream media fails consistently and connecting the dots and you know, wanting to both sides the situation where both sides are not playing the same game, right, And to your point about Gabby Giffords, and I have brought this up before, you know, it was Sarah Palin that had her Darren mccratic opponents in literal crosshairs, and it was the shaming of the media after Gabby Giffords was killed that then she took

down that website, right, And so, but if you live in a climate now where there is absolutely no shaming, where instead they're celebrating the likes of Kyle Rittenhouse, who is a murderer who is now a sought after speaker of the Republican Party right as well as as well as the mcclusky's that brandished their weapons on their front lawn right during peaceful Black Lives Matter protests during the uprising. Is it's just like, I just don't see this going anywhere.

So you tell me last question for you when we're you you painted the picture of this perfect storm, Where does it go? And how do we brace ourselves? Well, I think that you know a lot of people are like, oh, we had to towards civil war, and I don't think civil war's gonna look like what we think it looked like in the past. You know, I think that we're

in a version of it. And you know, I don't think that we can have like a unifying candidate president just because the right wing right now is in such a tizzy and such they're under such I would say, almost like a trance. You know. It's like they're like Donald Trump has excavated these locusts who have been there and we're kind of seeing like Reagan's dream become a reality.

And I'm glad you mentioned Sarah Palin because like, let's not forget you know, so much of this can be traced back to twenty ten and the Tea Party and John McCain introducing the world to Sarah Palin and how her handlers were just like, this is a perfect opportunity. She's the perfect vessel to say and do all these horrid things that we've just been wanting to say. But like, no decent Republican at the time would ever touch it, you know, like John McCain would never said those things

out in public. But here we are, right, and he chose her, So he's gonna he's gonna be linked to her in the history books. I don't know what the next few years looked like because we've been so each

election it's been on the brink. I was explaining. I went birding yesterday with a good friend of mine who's a literature professor, and you know, we talked about nature, we talked about politics, and I said, you know, politics right now feels like when you hear that story of parents where you know you're older now, right and your parents are like, hey, listen, you know when you were ten, we didn't want to tell you, but like we almost lost the house, you know, like Dad and I were

unemployed and you know we were behind in the mortgage, and you didn't we wanted to shield you from it, but you didn't know. But like we almost had to pull you out of your private school, and you know, we literally almost had to go live with grandma, right, and you had no idea and you were just a

kid living your life and you know happy. I feel like that's the way American democracy is, where it's like political scientists and journalists are like, oh my god, every election could be our last, and the vaster jury of the country has no idea that we're on the precipice. Right, don't forget for president cential elections, we've barely got sixty percent of the voting eligible population pay attention and participate.

New York City elections, we barely have twenty five that's like hot numbers in New York City for the most important mayoral job in the country. Right, it's an international position. And saying for governors races, you know, our participation is abysmal. Now, we can talk about sort of the obstacles and institutional barriers in systemic ways that we make it difficult, but that being said, we still have a lot of soil

that we could till. And the reason why I'm not like, oh my gosh, everything's terrible is because there's still a lot of people that can be awakened and there you know, anytime you teach young people, you recognize the ability for a different possibility. You recognize that they actually can steer the ship in a different direction. They will steer the

ship in a different direction. So we can provide a foundation for them so when it is their time to do it, they can figure out how to do the gut reno and they won't have to do it the way we've done it in the past, and they will have a different set of eyes and they will come up with a different creative vision. We just have to invest the time in them so that they know that we're not totally nuts and that we haven't given up.

So I think we're modeling behavior. I think your passion about the future and your concern is a different tone than mine, but it's still articulating a vision and sort of showing them a way of being as citizens in this country who care about this country. That is like, it's really necessary and important for them to see. You know that they can see two black women who are very invested in the survival of this nation and the

people in it. And we end up at the same destination, but it's like right, but we'll both ring the alarm in different ways and we get to work in different ways. And I think that we're giving them a vision and options of how they can get to work when it's you know, they're starting to realize it is also their time to start getting to work. And so that's why I'm not doom and gloom, even though I'm very concerned.

You see, It's why I always bring you on wokay f because we all need varied perspectives and recognize that we are in a historic moment and have the opportunity to have incredible impact as this country reorganizes, reorients itself to who it wants to be. Uh. And at the same time, you know, your folks, your your anxiousness, your frustration, your worry is in fact warranted. Um, but how we

process it uh maybe different. My friend, doctor Christina Greer, I appreciate you so very much, and you must come back throughout the year to calm times. I love spending time with you, absolutely do. So anytime you just say the word Larry Bird, I'm there. Appreciate you. That is it for me today, dear friends, on a woke app as always Power to the people and to all the people. Power, Get woke and stay woke as fuck.