The GOP's Personal Army

Brooklyn Bunker. Why because later on in the show, with our friend doctor Jonathan Metzel joining us for our continuation of the last two years of living in a pandemic, the thoughts of del Macron and Flerona entering my system keeps me wanting to, you know, self, quarantine, just be on my own personal fucking lockdown at this point in time, because I find then anytime that I start to muster up the strength to say, yeah, I'll go out and I'll hang out with this person, then I find out

that I have been exposed in some way former shape. So far, so good, But trying to avoid COVID right now is like being a ball in a pinball machine

trying not to hit the size. Before we jump into the latest with COVID, we are coming fastly, fastly approaching the anniversary of the one six insurrection, and according to the New York Times and a couple of other outlets now Politico, Axios and others, there's a new far right group that apparently all of us hadn't heard of, hadn't been privy too, and as the one six Commission continues to quietly do their investigation, as the media is saying, I don't know how quiet things can be when it's

on national television, but I digress. A group called I Believe A One, not like the steak sauce because that would provide flavor, but A one is a group of former military, former intelligence agents of former Coastguard National Guard. It's essentially made up of ex military folks. They are a far right wing group that has been in close contact, close community with the Trump administration, with as many are referring to as MAGA celebrities. They apparently acted as their

own personal bodyguards, and right before the insurrection. On January fourth, two days before the insurrection, tweeted out from their official Twitter account that some young National Guard captains are going

to have to make some very tough decisions. On January sixth, I want us to sit with that for a moment, because now, of course there is more investigation into the rise and the prevalence, right, but it's not even the rise, because the Rise continues to assume that these groups are somehow blossoming out of nowhere, when in fact, and we reported on this show a bunch of times that the FBI was very well aware of the spreading right, the

exponential spread of white supremacists, far right nationalist groups blossoming with their multiple cells all across the United States for roughly the last ten to twelve years. They did a whole fucking report on it, except you know, they decided that they were not going to put money or resources into those kinds of investigations. Instead, they were going to put power, intellectual power into black extremist groups, because they

are the ones that are rampant. Right, Because we have to understand why were these agencies created in the first place, and what was their function right as a tool of government, well throughout the history of these United States, at least in modern times. Right, and when modern times, I'm talking you know about the civil rights movements, I'm talking about you know, the nineteen fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, I'm talking about the crack epidemic, I'm talking about all of these

different things. Well, these intelligence agencies were functioning as a tool of government to assassinate civil rights leaders, to intimidate, to put wire taps, to figure out how they were organizing, because if they could, in fact get rid of these prominent voices, then you know, black people would go back to keeping their heads down, saying yes ma'am and no ma'am and moving off a sidewalks for white people and

for whiteness. So it should be of no shock to any of us that there are a multitude of people that exist inside of these agencies, that exist inside of the branches of the military, in large numbers, right, who

are proponents of white supremacy and far right ideology. What is mind fucking boggling to me, though, is that with this information mounting in front of us over the last four to fucking five years, now, why isn't that we are just still pushing paperwork instead of in guiding these groups, instead of locking these people up and calling them what

they are, which is a group of fucking terrorists. Right, Like, this is what is getting my blood boiling is the amount of oh, well, we need to be told we need to have like all of our investigations in a row, We need to have all of our paperwork, all of our ducks in a row, needs to be meticulous to do what exactly because you didn't need any of that

type of note taking and paperwork and data collection. When you decided to use facial recognition on Black Lives Matter protesters, you didn't need that kind of energy when you were going after the Angela davis is of the world, and the Martin Luther Kings and the Malcolm X's at the Fred Hampton's none of it right, you just went in. You took those people out because you did not like what they stood for, which was liberty and justice for

an oppressed people. But when it turns out that you don't want to take down your neighbor and your buddy and your fucking pastor and your cop and your chief, right, this is the problem. The problem that America continues to want to turn its back on is white terrorism. That's it. All of this stems from the eight the purposeful ignorance to the fact that this country is bred and born white domestic terrorism. And not only does it breed it, right,

it celebrates it. It celebrates it with fucking statues, right, it celebrates it with naming these traders after schools and hospitals and our own fucking FBI agency. So how is it that you can even begin right to deal with a problem that is so indistinguishable from Americanism. Americanism is

violence perpetuated by white, aggrieved, rage filled people. Because when you have set up a matrix and a system that tells you that the rest of the fucking world owes you something, that somehow you are special just by virtue of your lack of melanin, then trying to paint the picture of where all of this ship has gone wrong

is like trying right, but what is it? Even? Like, I don't even know what it's like, because like, eventually kids stop believing in Santa Claus, right, Like, eventually they recognize that that is mommy, or that is Daddy or whomever it is. Right Like, eventually the things that we believed right as fantasy is as children begin to dissipate over time. The problem with white supremacy is that it exists, right like. It isn't the boogeyman, right, It isn't this

fictitional figure. It is very real. It is very insidious. It is a cancer, and a cancer that cannot be isolated. It infects a tissue, every cell, every fiber of our being, everything that we put our trust and faith in, every agency. When we are pledging allegiance to this country. This is why Colin Kaepernick and others were taking a knee, not just for police brutality, because when you pledge allegiance to this country, you are pledging allegiance to white supremacy and patriarchy.

You are pledging allegiance right to their ability to oppress people. And then guests like the fuck out of them. You know, I remember, and this is not going to be popular, and I don't give a fuck. In twenty fifteen, and I've told this story before, in twenty fifteen, I had the great fortune to be able to go on a journalistic retreat to Israel and Palestine. I am not a foreign correspondent. I am not somebody that has been steeped in and educated in foreign affairs, let alone the complications

and the layers of complications in the Middle East. But I was invited on this trip because I am an activist and I am somebody that has fought for social justice, racial justice, LGBTQ quality, women's rights, all of these things

for a my entire career in different capacities. And I remember talking to and head of an organization who was in Israeli and he spoke about Israel and the conflict as this place that, in the minds of Americans is like a moral Disneyland, right, where the picture of Israel being this democracy that is above reproach and that needs to be protected at all costs because it's surrounded by

these savage Middle Eastern countries. Right, And he goes, how is it that your country that America provides billions of dollars for us to displace brutalized and oppressed and not even make into second class citizens, right, treat Palestinian people like fucking animals. How do you call how do you call Israel a democracy in the Middle East when half of its population have no rights and not only have no rights, but are brutalized and placed and beaten and

shot and killed on a regular basis. And he referred to it as moral Disneyland, this place where Jewish people around the world are able to go to, right where they are the majority. And I can imagine what that feels like, right to be able to go to a place where everyone is like you, where you're not the only one. And how much pride that that can provide you with? Right, how much joy the feeling of safety?

Right you don't have to explain things. They just are Except that isn't Israel, right, just like the United States claims to be a democracy, claims to be a country that is about being the home of the brave and

the land of the free. Except if you are a person of color, if you are a queer person, if you are a person of the Muslim faith, if you are Jewish, if you are a woman like you are not free here with each and every one of those groups, and God forbid you embody multiple identities that are marginalized. Your experience is not a freedom. Your experience is not necessarily of thriving. It is surviving an institution, a complex system that was created for at about your subjugation. This

is not like conspiracy theory. This is like, learn your fucking history here, so you have the realization, once the fucking gain that it wasn't just this crazy man Donald Trump standing up in front of a crowd telling them to go take back their country. That it was an organized, tactical, strategic, almost successful strategy to overthrow the government. It wasn't just And what pisces me off even more is the constant of chattering in mainstream news as if it was about

overturning an election. No, it wasn't. The election is fundamental to a democracy that is about being for and by the people. This was about overturning democracy right and ending free and fair elections. Like language fucking matters. And I can't presume any more that mainstream media just doesn't get it. I think that they absolutely do. But they are also

part of the fucking problem. You know, when I interviewed Congressman Jamal Bowman right before the holiday break, you know, we were talking about how much money is in politics, and how both groups, Democrats and Republicans both serve the same fucking master, which is capitalism, which is money. Right, And so when your interests right are not actually about the people, when your interests are better aligned with profits, then you get really hazy and the types of things

that you're willing to support and admit. Mainstream media isn't going to come out and do the quote unquote right thing. And I say consistently and tell I'm horse in the fucking throat, like tell the truth, because where do they get their money from other people that are invested monetarily, emotionally, spiritually in white supremacy. So it does not behoove them to tell the truth, because then they'll lose their sponsors, they'll lose their ads. This is the line that they

tell themselves. I don't want to see more headlines about extremism unless we're gonna be honest about who the fuck the extremists are. I don't care about their sob story of how they fucking got that way. They got that way because America has created a public education system that is more about propaganda about how great America is rather than telling the fucking truth that we are able to build upon. We sing hymns and songs, right, we talk

about apple pie and baseball and football. We waive flats on the fourth of July, without actually having any fucking context as to what it means to be independent, about what it means to be free. So now you're in a situation where you have these white far right extremist terrorist organizations that are co opting language about patriotism and freedom and the choices about how they're going to fight and show up, and they are fucking telling us in

broad daylight what they are doing. They're telling us on every social media platform what their plans are, what their desires, are, and we're still sitting around going, oh, we need more information. It's like we're waiting for the bullets to fly and from the bombs to drop, and then in that dusk coming down much like and don't look up, it'll be like,

oh shit, we should have done something. Every day, every day that goes by that the architects behind the attempt to overthrow our democracy are not in jail, is another day lost, and another day they win and gain on their side. Right now, there is a court case in North Carolina about the Republican parties lying as jerrymandering that they are doing to ensure that North Carolina remains a Republican by adding additional seats right and taking away democratic

democratic seats. Three panel judges right, who are elected by God knows who get to decide. We still think that we're functioning in this place where justice is actually blind, where these judges are beyond reproach. When I am telling you these same judges, these same people are a part

of these fucking groups, y'all. I can't you know. Some days I tell you that I feel crazy, like I feel like I am seeing the end, and it's like you are just screaming into a black hole for people to wake the fuck up before the comment actually hits, and everybody is just staring at the goddamn floor. We are in serious fucking trouble. We have but a handful of months, and I'm listening to Joe Mansion. Talk to me about the filibuster and how he is beyond changing

the rules of the Senate. Then start calling the man the fucking grim reaper of democracy, the executioner of democracy. Start using language that expresses the urgency of the moment that we are in, and it presents to the public exactly what this man is doing. Don't ask him questions about the childcare tax credit and build back better. Don't ask him bullshit policy questions. Ask him why he doesn't

care about democracy. Ask him if he's caught a deal with Republicans that when they take over with their Authoriturian regime, right when they take over with their fascism and their kleptocracy, was he cut into the deal. Let's just get real about what the fuck is going on and stop pretending like we don't know or that we need more information.

I don't know how much more information the Department of Justice needs in order to take action, or Joe Biden needs in order to get the fuck rid of Merritt Garland, who's sitting around like doing what exactly unclear. If the people that we elected are not going to take action, then it is time that the people start to take action.

That's where we are moving. Coming up next, friends, is my conversation with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel to bring us the latest on COVID nineteen, on Omicron, on Flerona, on del Macron, and whatever the fuck else is going to be coming down the pike. Folks. It is the new year, but we have some of our favorite familiar faces. Doctor Jonathan Metzel is back with us for another round of who's got COVID? Coming up in the year twenty twenty two. Jonathan, Happy new year to you,

Happy happy New Year, and happy new year everyone out there. So, Jonathan, we ended last year with talking about Omicron and you giving once again. You're very and you know, I want to tell you this. Folks who listen to the show woke a f audience members DM me or message and they say, you know what, Jonathan hasn't been wrong in two years. They and they're like, I listened to him. I pay attention when he says this is going to take over. I pay attention when he says folks need

to change out their masks and wear better masks. I listen to him when he tells us that we need to, you know, self test and like be a lot more conscious of who we're engaging within house. So I want you to know, just as we start this new year, that you have been giving some sage advice, some funny jokes, and just like helping people feel a little bit more

sure in this very uncertain times. And I just want to appreciate you for that and continuing to ride with us here on woke app So let me let me just say before you go on, well, thank you everybody. I mean, I've been getting nice messages on Twitter DM also that are just about that. But you know, it's it's we're all dealing with the same information, they all

same uncertain and stuff like that. So it's such a function of like our conversation, right in other words, I feel like between you and I we come up with reason, We try to make reason out of all this chaos. And so right back at you, because I think it's really a function of our of our conversation and the way we're kind of on the same wave length about

just trying to make sense of all this for people. Yeah, I mean, and I think that you know, as we're moving on, what are we seeing that, like, things aren't really getting that much better? Right? And so the most sense that we can make to give you all that are listening a little bit more peace of mind or at least feeling like you're not alone when you're feeling crazy, I think is going to be key to our emotional, physical,

and mental well being. So, Jonathan, at the end of twenty twenty one, just a couple of weeks ago you came on, omicron was not in our lexicon the way it is now. It also didn't infect three hundred thousand plus people a day in the United States the way that it is now. I want to ask you first, I mean, for you, for your friends in the medical community. Are you just like dumb struck by how fast this

variant has moved. It's funny. When I first saw the mutation profile of this, this one mutation, in other words, having over thirty mutations on the spike protein alone, I knew we were in trouble. Like, this is the kind of this. It's not the worst case scenario. It's the next or worst case scenario that people have been worried about, which is the spike protein is kind of like where it hooks into your body, right, And so all the vaccines that we have target for the most part, the

spike protein, not the body of the virus. And so when I thought, man, this spike protein is so changed that it's just, you know, we don't have a defense against this thing quite yet, right. It's it's it's almost a totally different virus. And so in the very beginning when I first read about it, I thought, oh, that's not good. We're in trouble. And the other part, of course, is with that many mutations, it also it hangs in

the air longer, It is much more. It just hooks on to any mucosa much more intensely, and so you don't just have mucosa in your mouth, you have it in your eyes, you have it in your nose. And so it can also kind of not to be too graphic, get in different ways. And so part of the issue is this was just like a monster mutation. Now that you know, the relatively good thing, which doesn't feel very

good on a day to day level. Is it's non lethal, right because it happens to the mutations made it less likely to hook into your lungs, but it still can get into your brain, get into your heart, get into all these other areas that do make you worry about long COVID, which I think is the main issue. But it's not going to suffocate you, and so that's a good thing. But I will say, oh micron just you know, that's what I call it, still the big oh Oscar Robertson.

It hangs out, it hangs in the air, it's transmissible, It takes hardly any contact to spread, and so in a way, it's kind of a perfect storm of a bunch of different things that make it just I mean, look at the infection ratio in a place like Nashville right now. It's it's we're at Bangladesh levels, We're at Measles levels. So yeah, it's it's one of the more

transibissimal things we've ever seen. Really, So when we you know here in the media right that O macron is spreading, and at the rate it's spreading, it's going to burn itself out. And you and I have had this conversation offline about it burning itself out, meaning that it's spreading so fast. There's only so much any hosts, right, so many bodies that it's going to be able to enter

before it has infected everything. Talk to me more about this, and also about the fact that you know what the news has been is that, well, the symptoms are mild, but the symptoms are only mild caveat if you are vaccinated and boosted. Correct. I still don't think we know what it means to have mild symptoms. We all know people who have COVID who have had a headache for three weeks and can't catch the rest quite yet, and stuff like that. So I don't think we quite know.

I don't think we quite know what mild means. Certainly people are I mean I follow hospitalization rates and those are going crazy, and I want to know how many people who are hospitalized are vaccinated and boosted. I bet you it's not zero. And so I think we're still in the same calculus in a certain kind of way. I mean, it's certainly better to have than the other versions if you weren't vaccinated, but there it raises as many questions as it answers how long is the booster

good for? How long has the vaccine good for? Will this thing find escape mutations, which I'm sure it will, that will get around all that, what's the rate of infection vaccinated versus non vaccinated people? And so I don't know. There's a lot, there are a lot of questions right now that I think we don't know the answer to. And I still am going to say. I mean, for me, the existential question is should people just run out and get it because it's mild and then have some body defense.

That's kind of what rents through my mind all the time. And I still think, if you can help it, it's better to not get it until we know some of these answers and until some other better treatments come along the pike, you know, And you know, to your point, one of the things that you had been saying on this show, and it sticks with me and I regurgitate it often is that when there's so much virus that is in the air, right, when so much virus is in the air, you say that it's more likely it's

more likely to mutate like continue like we will. It's more likely that we will get a new variant quicker than if not. So can you just speak to that again, that like that rationale of how much virus is in the air and what that actually means. Well, I get the most terrifying, daunting and just kind of awesome part of all this, right, is that the virus. I mean,

think about it. When we started talking six weeks ago, there was like one pellette of omicron in the world, and now it's in every room in every house on the entire planet. Like that's some pretty impressive lilypad math, right, And so part of the story is this, this thing is dividing so quickly, and it doesn't always divide at a perfect copy of itself. It divides with a little you know, when I got eighty percent there, or the

whole thing didn't download there. It's that's always happening, and and it's mt It's mutating all the time right now. M But the issue is every once in a while, one of these mutations will will give it a strategic advantage in terms of what it it's main goal is, which is to um more people. It infect more people. Yeah, I was going to use the dolomite ffa mother efforts but I think that's that's kind of that, that's what it does. Um. And so when it gets an advantage,

then it pushes out the other one. Usually usually that's what happens. And so it's more like the engagement of the virus and the host. We're the host. Um, you know, we should put out cocktail napkins. Yeah, that kind of thing. So so yeah, so it's always mutating, and the question is does one mutation give it an advantage over over the other. And the reason I say that is because think about other terrible virus as you know, al stuff

like that. Um, they mutate to the point where they become super lethal, but they become so lethal that they just kill the host and then they don't they don't spread, they're easier to contain. In a way, the fact that the big oh Oscar Robertson is not lethal and is mild actually gives it an advantage because it's not killing people and so it has zillions of different hosts and stuff like that. So that's kind of the trade off.

Uh huh huh. Either way, it doesn't sound really great. Um. Okay, so I learned two new words yesterday, UM that I never actually wanted to learn. Wasn't looking for new words

to stop my vocabulary at all. I thought I was fairly good, But yesterday I learned about del macron and flew Rona, both uh discussed in the Daily Beast and in the Israeli Times where flew Rona was found and flew Rona, folks, as I said yesterday, is basically a combo effect of the flu and covid, and then delmicron is a combo effect of having both delta and amicron at the same time. Jonathan, can you shed any light

on these combo variants that we're looking at? And right now there was only one case of flu orna in Israel and they have also, at the same time, are rolling out a fourth shot, a fourth shot. They were the first to roll out the third shot, the booster shot. Now they're rolling out a fourth shot that was just approved for those that are over sixty five, I believe,

and those with serious immunodeficiency. Can you speak to what you've heard thus far on that, well, it's not surprising, and I think I want to just say to everybody first, this strategy really should be the same, which is, if there's a way to night get this stuff, which is to trust the people you trust, wear a mask around everybody else, have a good mask and N ninety five mask, or what I do when I go out, which is an N ninety five with a K on ninety five

on top. Surprisingly not that hard to breathe, relatively speaking. In that wash your hands all that stuff. Now it seems like, oh my god, that crap advice again. But the point is that there, as I was saying before, there flu is seasonal, right, so we know that flu is going to get bad for the next couple of weeks and then it'll dip down, and there are there is hope on the horizon. One about the speed at which the Big O went up and then went down in South Africa, and so it seems like it burned

itself out in South Africa. That might be happening in the UK also, And so in that sense, this isn't like a permanent state of emergency. It's something that should be improving this part of it by by mid February. And the other part that's important is that there are new anti viral drugs coming out from Visor and other places that actually could be effective treatments for people who get it and then can take the pills and it

won't lead to serious illness. And so if you can hold on for another couple of weeks, I actually think there's going to be you know, some some better news coming down the way. And so again it's it's it's almost impossible for a lot of people to avoid this because people are in and out of their house and they have kids going to school and stuff like that. But if you can just hold on for another couple of weeks, I do really think that we're going to turn the corner on a couple of these things. Now

getting to your question, why why is that important? Right? Um, there are a couple of reasons. One is because again we're going into flu season. And as if you need more good, cheerful stuff, I'm and again I love puppies, peonies smell wonderful. I love you know, a sunny day. But I don't love the flu vaccine this year because they got the wrong strain of the flu, and so the flu vaccine is important to get it, but it just ain't going to work, and so and so we

really don't help work. Well, it's like a crapshoot. It's kind of like the lottery the flu vaccine like they're nine zillion. It's like trying to predict how the flu is going to mutate, right, and it's changing all the time, but you're trying to do it in advance of the flu. And so our flu vaccines, kind of similar to our covid vaccines, are trying to anticipate what kind of mutation is going to be and then targeting just that one

specific mutation. And now there are new kinds of vaccines that people are experiment rending with that are PAN category PAN coronavirus PAN flu vaccine. So there might be a new kind of vaccine coming as soon as next year. But in the meantime, but they just have to guess which which strain it is, and this year they happen to gets wrong. Now it's it's like a crapshoot, right, And so we don't have a ton of defense against

the flue. We do have, you know, lovely things about our species again, you know, um, black light posters, um, you know the el Um you know ced nightclubs, the Elton John ninth Reunion tour. All these things are all great about humanity, But predicting the flu vaccine this year was not our strong suit. And so the point is we don't have a ton of defense. You should get the flu vaccine, but it's not it's going to be like thirty percent effective as opposed to better than that.

So this is a totally different virus. And so it's not surprising that you could get the big O and the Big F together. UM. And I bet we'll I bet we'll see more of it um neither or lethal. But I hate to think what they're like together now, Um, Delta and the big Oh, that's a different story. UM. And again the advice is the same, get vaccinated because the vaccine is super effective against Delta UM and it has I think the potential to be helpful for against

illness for Oscar Robertson also UM. And so I would say, you know, I just I bet we'll be seeing more of this kind of thing because all these vas, all these viruses are circulating. Now. If you want the take home point, that's the pessimistic takeome point. Sorry, was I was I supposed to be looking for good news and things? You just said over black light posters? Got it? Yeah? Um?

And uh I've got over here after we're done I've got a jar of peanut butter and jelly mixed together in the same in the same thing, virtually symbolizing the end of humanity. What I mean, I'm like, this is, this is not a high po This is human ingenuity. This is what people can do when they put their minds to it. I mean, we made this as humans, you know, like we we did this. So we did a bunch of great things, but predicting the flu vaccine was not one of those great things. And and the

other thing is I guess the other concerning thing. Again, I'm not sponsored by Goober, Goober Goober, I'm not sponsored by Googer, but I will say that just like peanut butter and jelly coexist in Goober, apparently Delta and the Big O can coexist out there in the world. And to me, the concerning part about this, and they're very different viruses, so we have different viruses circulating all the time.

But what's concerning is that you would think the Big O would come and push out Delta Delta, but that's not what happened. They actually can co exist. And so that's the concerning part is we're actually seeing a twin twins, right now again, get vaccinated and wear masks. I just I like, at some point, at some point, this all has to stop, right So okay, so here's the question for you. Oh yeah, let me say I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic mid February mosh pit. You know, like I'm I'm optimistic.

You know that until the next variant comes, we're developing a lot of species immunity, and we are also working on pan pan category vaccines that I think will also became changers. So yeah, I think, I think believe it. And how how often am I optimistic? Like once every three years, and I would say I'm actually optimistic right now. Okay. So the last thing is the CDC, who I no

longer have faith in and can't fucking stand. And the reality is to me that the CDC is, much like every other place and space, a bunch of humans that are pushed by capitalism and you know, and are making decisions based on capitalism and politics and not necessarily the

public health. I say all this to say because the decision that Wilenski and others made to make a pivot from the ten day quarantine to five days so that Americans could get right back to work to me, signals that we are not as the Biden administration told us when they took over, following the science, that instead we are following what CEOs need? What were your what are your thoughts about the move from ten to five days?

And also right now thousands of schools are out of session, but thousands more remain in and we know that there was no barrier that was created between the massive gathering holiday season and our kids are returning to school and folks are returning to war. I tweeted earlier in the week. I don't understand this shouldn't have been rocket science. Why

didn't we just have remote learning for two weeks? People be at home for two weeks for work and then like lesson right, even if you were sick, you would have been home and then you test in to go back. Yeah. I mean I think we got caught with a kind of exponential spread that we did not anticipate. Right. We were our system was great for the last for Delta.

We were we were just rocking Delta, right, and so everything we built, everything we strategized was for Delta, and then um oh Microme came and it just it was like a I just don't even think, you know, you put you put ten thousand virologists in a room and tell them to predict what's the next mutation going to be.

I bet nobody would have predicted this. It was just so out of the blue, out of the ordinary, unexpected, and so I think there was a scramble because they were and I'm saying this, you know, is the positive spin. And I have no idea that the CDC was being forced to be experts about a virus that it did not know anything about. It just didn't It didn't know the spread, it didn't know the incubation period, it didn't

know the infection ratio. And so I think there's a lot of ketchup because on one hand, people demand answers, you know, these are existential issues, and on the other hand, people the CDC is flying. It's it's flying blind in a way, and it's also decimated from the years of

neglect and everything the Trump administration did to it. And it's also terrible at messaging, right and so and so it does seem to have made the same mistake that it did when it just told everybody masks and then no masks, like these these announcements come out of nowhere,

and they seemed to. They seem to just catch everybody by surprise and have and there's no lead up to it and things like that, And so I think really that's the issue is if you can transparently explain to people what's happening, I think you'll just get a lot more support, because without that it opens the door to all kinds of concern, resentment, conspiracy, you know, valid and and in this case, I do think it's fair if the CDC said to people, we're balancing the economy versus

the health or something like that, and we can't have one with the other, and they both go together. And if somebody is asymptomatic and test positive, and five days after they test positive, if they can then test negative, they can come out of quarantine, and that's our plan. Something like that. Just you know, what would Trump do. He'd have a big, big carnival, you know, press announcement or something like that. And so they didn't do any

of that stuff. But again, the knowledge is changing every day,

so I think I can see why it's hard. But I would also say I with you at the end of that long preamble that I do think that their messaging is still bad after all this, I mean, I just think it's atrocious and I and I also it does not help that then you have the AP and and routers, you know, coming out with the letter that the Delta CEO wrote that says I'm losing my staff, right, So it's it's not as if we're we're and I keep telling people, we're at a time when you need

to be intellectually nimble, but the CDC is making it really difficult for you to trust them, right and trust that they have your best interests in mind. And I'm like, we're already at a time when misinformation has won over, right, when lies are just are rampant, and we have distrust in all of our agencies thanks to Trump. I think that the reality is is that you it's not okay for us to keep saying like, oh, their messaging is

just bad. Messaging is everything. And that's that they that like Democrats don't get the CDC doesn't get this administration doesn't get is like messaging matters. This is the thing that Republicans are really great at. And it doesn't matter that they don't tell the truth because they know how to get the information out, And I just I really worry because one, I do think that you're right. I think that by you know, mid February, early early March,

I think that Omicron will have burned itself out. I think that, you know, we will have a better understanding of the booster rate. Do we need them every four months? Do we need them every six months? You know, if you get a booster once a year, like, you're good

to go. But I also know that if we're following the patterns from twenty twenty till now, that by the time summer comes, there will be another fucking variant, right, Like, that's the way that we have been working, is that we have these short couple of months of good times are here again, and then we fall off a cliff. Yeah, I mean, this is what happens. This virus is becoming endemic, right,

So that's what happens, right, That's the pattern. And I do think that if there's anything of what we're saying right now that we can do as a species in a country is to improve the science communication. Like I think there's a kind of universal need for that. Now. It's hard, of course, because if you're in New York, if you also have state communication, whereas if you're in Florida you have you know, the Coco Pebbles organization or whoever.

And so but I do think that the need for I mean, it's weird because like when I interview conservatives and Trump supporters and everybody like that, they all say, we want objective, we want objective communications. So I do think there's a need for communication right now that there is better. We need to improve our science communication infrastructure.

I don't know how that happens in this environment. But again, because this is because because this is an endemic situation where this is not our last rodeo, I think you're you're absolutely right well, Jonathan, as always, we appreciate you so much. We are happy to have you back in twenty twenty two. We will continue this conversation as we learn more. Folks. And I haven't said this in a while, but if you're not following Jonathan on social media, you

should be. He tweets, he shares articles, he writes articles, He pushes out content on a regular basis so that you can keep up to date outside of just our weekly wonderful conversations. Jonathan, thank you, thank you, thank you, and and let me just say in closing that I

think it's such a weird time for expert knowledge. Like three years ago, it's like you go to the doctor, the doctor diagnoses you, you get the treatment, you'll even now, it's kind of like we have to be very humble about what expertise is at this moment right because there are so many paradigms and there's so much uncertainty, and expert knowledge changes every five seconds along with every mutation and everything that happens, and so humility is I think

the key right now. And again we'll just keep figuring this out together because again, this issue unfortunately is not not going anywhere anytime soon. No, it is not. That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke app, Let's take a collective breath. Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.