The Fallacy of Equality

And you know what I'm starting to notice, and I've said this before, is that the comments section on my pages or starting to become quite intense in terms of their real anger frustration with the Biden administration at a SIP pertains to the stance in Gaza and their stands to be in solidarity with Israel, even though many of us believe and know with our own eyes that war crimes are being committed and that they are weaponizing their trauma.

And I am really starting to question a lot of things, which I will be talking about as I often do on this show and other places, because I want people to understand that my allegiance is not to an administration.

It is to upholding democracy that I believe is on the brink of collapse in this country, and that while we can consistently, you know, push back and be angered with this administration, understand that we're able to do that because this president still believes in the constitution and the rule of law and listens to people's voices. So us lifting up our voices, marching, boycotting matters in this moment,

particularly as we go into the twenty twenty four election. However, throwing caution to the win by saying that folks are not going to vote for democracy, which is exactly what it means to vote for Joe Biden, whether or not you're doing it holding your nose, closing your eyes and just pulling the lever has to happen. And we are not in a position to play games with Donald Trump his dictatorial fantasies. Right like, he is telling us out

loud that he wants to be a dictator. His followers are telling us out loud that they are going to clean house of any career right policy people, any career political people in UH to make room for the sycophants, to make room for those that will turn the other cheek so that they get the white Christian fascist country of their dreams. That is not something to play with and think that, oh, okay, well, if that happens, we'll just fight and fight and fight the way we did

in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty and all will be well. No, if Donald Trump gets in, he's never leaving. And to me that is more terrifying of a proposition for our stability as a nation and global stability than anything else. I am happy to fight with right a president that actually still believes in the rule of law, whether or not I agree on what it is that he is

doing with Israel, right, because I fucking do not. But as sure as hell know that I won't have a voice and I may not have freedom right if a Donald Trump were to come into office. And those are the things that I think that we need to be in deep consideration and conversation with ourselves and with those around us. Coming up next on today's show, I am excited to welcome on writer and author of the new

book Breaking Free. In the book Breaking Free, The Lie of Equality and the Feminist Fight for Freedom, culture writer Marcy Bianco persuasively argues that the very concept of equality is a fallacy, an illusory goal that cannot address historic forms of discrimination and oppression. And in our conversation we talk about what does equality actually mean and are we fighting for the right thing or do we need to reimagine write what freedom actually looks like. She says that

we've been conditioned for generations to want equality. It has become insidious in the mindset, locking us into the gender binary and reductive identity politics. So my conversation with the author of Breaking Free, The Lie of Equality and the Feminist Fight for Freedom, Marcy Bianco, is coming up next. Folks. I am so happy to welcome to ook f Daily culture writer and the author of Breaking Free, The Lie of Equality and the Feminist Fight for Freedom. In the book, Marcy,

you explore the notion that equality is a lie. And let me tell you something. I have said that phrase. I don't know. I've said that at nauseam. And I want you to explain to folks, because you know, we are taught right, yes, that we are. We are fighting for equality, we are fighting for freedom. This is what it looks like, right, and you know, and and there there are differences, I think in the way that you maneuver through history, through these different and moments and fights.

And I just want, what do you mean when you say equality is a fallacy? Equality is a lie?

I feel like it's this for like societal gas lighting of the world that we actually live in, because no one is born equal, No one has equal advantages in life, equal eco socionomic backgrounds, no one is born in the same conditions, and no one dies equally, especially in this country. Come on, you know, And so it's just kind of like in all facets of our life, especially when it

comes to institutions, which you know, in this country. I really focus argument on the politics and the sociality of the United States, But when you have institutions and systems built upon the genocide of indigenous people and the enslavement of black people, you are never going to get the full realization of any kind of equality, even if it's

so called constitutionally protected. Right. So even when we see, even when we have two constitutional amendments saying we have voting rights, what has actually transpired the past one hundred and fifty years? Two people you know, are as everyone able to practice that right exactly? And so I, you know, these were just general observations that I felt, you know,

had me asking why is it that feminist? And I think women in general we're taught to say we just want to be equal, or especially we heard with like gay marriage, like we just want this same, We don't

want anything more, we don't want anything else. We just want gay marriage the same as you, and I kept thinking the same as you, the same in these institutions that are woefully inadequate, right that we even see with gay marriage, sure you can get married, but how many anti LGBTQ laws coming on pieces of legislation do we have in the States and in this federal government right now, like being debated and even when equality is implemented and

you know, like exacted in laws and in policies, you know, like not only are they fully realized, but also like what is the endgame? You know, like what are we trying to achieve within these in these systems? And so I ask, why is it, you know, why is it do we want equality so badly when we see how it operates, when we see that it really doesn't you know, affect us all equally and rights and policies, and like,

what are we actually fighting for? I don't think to get to a world in which we can create meaningful and joyful lives and create a more just world, equality

won't get us there. And I pull upon this large history, often marginalized history of feminist thinkers, writers, but also freedom fighters like I quote James Baldwin at length right in this book, because people have championed equality for generations when it comes to their human dignity right, living authentically and caring for each other in creating a more just world.

their domination right falling by the wayside. They see people questioning, well, wait a minute, because why am I measuring my life, measuring my opportunities on what it is that they have. Because the fact of the matter is exactly what you said at the opening, which is that you can't talk about equality when you're talking past the way in which

this country was founded. You can't talk about equality being equal to when one group of people was forced off of their land, right, the indigenous population had their land and their children stolen from them, right, Right? Talk about making black people equal to white people because one of us was considered property for four hundred years, right and

the other was not. And so not even had we been provided the forty acres and a mule that were asked for from the jump, you are still talking about hundreds of years of a gap in wealth building, in educational opportunities that were robbed. So what does equality really look like when we're actually laying those things out to

be bare? When you're talking about women who were not able not only not to have access over their own bodies, but also the right to vote, right also the right to own a credit card, which I continue to tell people did not happen till the nineteen seventies, nineteen seventy four to be precise, Right, Like, what does it look like to be equal in the workplace where one of us were afforded all of those opportunities and one of

us was not. And so talk to us about what it is that you offer in contrast to this idea and this continued fight. Because the other thing that you said too, and it's in our constitution. Our constitution talks about happiness. You talk about joy. I now talk about joy because I say, as the world becomes increasingly hardened, what resistance begins to look like is softness. And that is something that has been a jump in my mindset

in my work that I've been doing. But talk to us about what you are introducing other than equality.

as discrimination. To your point, right, that equality fundamentally is impossible within institutions that were built by a white supremacist cisce heteror patriarchy. In contrast, what I really wanted to offer feminists but all people, right, because my what I'm proposing here is a feminism that is not based on the gender binary in fact, I really find a huge problem with the existing I think the predominant form of feminism in this country has been a quality feminism for

one hundred and fifty years. Elizabeth kat Stanton, those folks really champiing for equal rights two white men in particular, and that they you know, there is record Lucretia Mott, Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, everyone talking about how, you know, if white women have the same rights as white men, they will fortify white supremacy. They were not shy about talking about fortifying white see when it came to white women's

ecal rights and specifically the equal right to vote. So what I'm proposing instead is, you know, there's often talk about like practicing feminism and what feminism looks like, and sometimes it's been reduced to capital like capitalist commodification, like a cute bag, and you know, all of that nonsense right right right, right right, and it's like, what what does it mean in practice? And I really believe and this is again I and I want to be very

clear about this. Like my work, and I say this in the introduction and throughout, is informed and inspired by black feminism, the black feminism of self determination, and a freedom because what I'm saying is that practice of freedom if we think about you know, this freedom as the ongoing practice of self creation, which is my version of Black feminist self determination, but the ongoing practice of self

creation based and accountability and care. That is a type of feminism that you practice daily and how you live your values and how you respect the human dignity of other people by taking accountability for how you act in the world. And I really truly believe that if we center these values care and accountability, we can begin to change how we treat each other. Because on a daily level,

like what matters, it's how we treat each other. Right, It's even if you know there was some harm or harassment or infringement or violence the law, you know, like we see how the law functions come on who protects and who daily basis. I really believe collectively, you know, this idea that if we change how we treat each other, that can change, Like that builds and that grows, and that's a collective like that causes a collective change. It's

a world changing collective effort. But that becomes on a very individual level. I believe. I don't believe it's an either or thing, right, the personal or you know, the collective. I believe they're integrated, and so I wanted to offer a practical feminism one that really too because if you think about the issues today that are affecting us the most, that are harming us, these are not issues of equality.

There are issues of freedom, whether it's abortion, whether it's education, how we move in the world, how we identify right, our authenticity and becoming. These are not about being equal. These are about being free, right, the freedom to determine one's life. And that's what's you know, what's really interesting, and another reason why I'm trying to pivot us to freedom is that what have we seen, especially over the past couple of years, concerned rivatives weaponizing equality to further

write discrimination and oppression. They use the equality to end affirmative action, They use equality to end COVID relief funding for black farmers. They use the quality to prevent women and racially marginalized folks applying for PPP loans early right, not giving any real advantage. But like they keep using

equality to promote the racist agenda. And they're using equality too in their larger broader you know, movement to end abortion and to promote fetal personhood because they're espousing, right, here's the thing, equality begins in the womb. That was the right to life, you know, like marchist slogan, equality begins in the womb. And if that happens, who's who

is life? Like, we're trying to equate, equate two very different things, actual legal personhood, and you know, as I go, so I want to I'm trying to be conscientious too of how equality is being used and how it's leveraged

and how it's leveraged effectively in this country. And I also I'm trying to promote a kind of feminism that I feel we can all practice because you know, like I don't know about you, but I've never woken up my life saying I feel equal today, right right, like it's but I have definitely had moments where I've felt free and joyful and I felt fully embodied and express myself. And I feel like people know that intuitively in their gut, like I can feel free. Not it's not a continuous like,

it's not an eternal thing. It's a continuous practice, as Angela Davis has told us, Right, but you can feel it and it's real equality depends on you know, the current people in power handing it to us, and it's going to look like however they want it to look like.

male leaders of nations were doing. And the reason why New Zealand did not have skyrocketing COVID cases is because she just through the lens of compassion, let me talk to the people, let me connect us as this community that we are all in this together. Let me bring different people to the table because we all don't know anything.

know that they are not giving up their power. Right. We heard Brick Santorum after the election, after Ohioan's decided that they were going to enshrine abortion rights into their constitutions say democracies don't work. He said that out loud. He said that. He said that out loud and on news Maxine. So when we see what we're up against and we know what could work is care and compassion, what does it look like for us to get there?

your citizenship, which just into art. And actually, did you know accountability is for a form of care And it really is because if you decide that you're going to take responsibility for your actions and know that you are, you know, like Donald Trump, you are not the only

person in the world that our freedoms are interconnected. That the situatedness, the specificity of the freedom that I have in my life depends on your freedom, right like because other people make like they expand my capacity for freedom. And we saw that again with the COVID crisis, right like with the pandemic of you know, people deciding to be accountable to the situation of this global public health

the pandemic, and deciding to hold themselves accountable. In New Zealand, it only it didn't take that long because everyone decided. Everyone made that choice, and thanks to that leadership, as you said, they were able to then live the past couple of years very differently than how we've experienced it in the United States. This is something it's hard because

I'm a pragmatist. Like this is why in my book too, I like area of like completely saying like get rid of their Capitalism has a ton of problems, especially how it's used by people. But it's like I live paycheck to paycheck, you know, it's like I'm reluctant to take these very definitive stands in some regard because I'm a pragmatist. So when it comes to that that leadership. Politically, I think people need to begin to work within their communities.

But also like you know, you think about how like what kind of groups, what kind of communities, and what kind of networks do we operate in, and how can we promote the care and well being of all of us within those networks and communities, and for some people, you know, they can't necessarily take those stands, like it's a it might be too great of a risk to their own situation. But you know, like in the workplace,

what if you reimagined policies in terms of care. Yeah, and I think again it's at a local level that this change can build. It's hard for me to answer that question, because you're right, they have this, they had, these very old white men have this death grip on this nation, and they live by, as you mentioned, equality being a zero sum game, meaning that there's a finite pie and oh my gosh, if you have a benefit, then I must lose something. As a response, it's such

a white supremacist mindset zo zero some game. I don't think I have an easy answer for that other than what we've seen, you know, the past couple of days of people mobilizing and understanding that they really do have the power to go to I mean, if they are able to vote again, if they aren't impeded, if the if their districts aren't being jerrymandered, to go to the you know, the polls and vote and vote in that kind of change. But I do think more locally on

a daily level. It's trying to center accountability and care and how we operate in the worlds that we live in, in the communities that we live in. I wish I had like a clear now.

should work. And I think that what we come to understand is that nothing is easy, right, and that where we have to be though, is a place of moving beyond what has been given and dream about something that is bigger, right, and think about something that is more than just being anti the thing right. And so I think and I and I think that that is what you do. And so I just want to say thank you, uh for for for writing this piece, folks. The book is breaking Free the Lie of equality and the feminist

fight for freedom. And you know, Marcie, I really hope that you will join us again on on wok F because I love this conversation and I think that it's an important one for us to have and I didn't even get to ask you about, you know, the reframing of the narrative around feminism which has been weaponized. So that will be a part A, part two at some point, So.