The End of the Republic As We Know It

to rest. I found myself a bit feeling a bit guilty um at the beginning of last week when I was deciding to take off for my birthday, and then recognizing why not. We all deserve rest, we deserve joy, we deserve to tap out, um, and so I appreciate each and every one of you for allowing me to do so. I hope that you enjoyed the conversations that we put in place while we were out. But now we are back, and let me start off with this.

You know, I have not been following to the greatest degree all of the details of the Kyle Rittenhouse trial. And it is for a number of reasons. One because I know how it's going to end. Armed angry white men in America get away with everything. They get away with lynching, they get away with physical abuse, they get away with harm, they get away with intimidation and threatening. You know, we never talk when we speak about the KKK and we speak about Jim Crow, we never talk

about the domestic terrorist element of it. We never talk about what it means to purposefully decide like Kyle Rittenhouse did, to sling an AAR fifteen across his shoulder and intimidate those that were going by peacefully. Wanting to add the for you know, accountability for our police officers, that you couldn't just murder someone in broad daylight and think that you were going to get away with it. But alas every single one of these cases show us one thing

and one thing only. The justice system was not built for black and brown people. It was not built for low income people. It was built for the Kyle Rittenhouses of the world. It was built for the Dylan Roofs of the world. It was built for people who were going to get a pat on the back from police officers and offering of water a It's okay, son. From the beginning of this trial and as of this recording, we don't know the verdict yet as of this recording,

the jury is still deliberating. But one thing that we know to be true is that the gun charge was thrown out right, So you know that Kyle Rittenhouse and this case has already allowed for the fact that if you live in the state, if you don't live in a state that has gun permits, that you can do

whatever the hell you want. That what that judge just did was allowed now for all of the copycats to decide that they too are going to arm themselves, drive across state lines and do the work of law enforcement, that they too get to play cop, they get to murder people with impunity and possibly get off, more likely

get off. So that's number one. Number two, the judge was clearly so incredibly hostile towards the prosecution from the jump, not even being able to refer to the people who lost their lives into the one who did survive and was able to testify who himself had a gun, but then said that he's not that type of person, that he wasn't going to use it, that there was another way. And so even in that exchange right between the defense attorneys and the third assailant, the third victim, excuse me,

the third victim whose life was not taken. You could see America write a snapshot. You have those that are gun carriers, that are gun owners who subscribe to the law, who are not doing so because they are out trying to play army or g I Joe, or who are just a white supremacist on the hunt for their next victim. No, there are in fact gun owners in this country who want to abide by the rule of law but also believe that they should have the ability to protect themselves.

They don't do so as a threat. You know, the other day, I was home out east on Long Island and visiting my family, and I'm noticing and this is something that I never noticed before when I was growing up, so I believe that it is new. I see all of these pickup trucks like these, you know, four by four or I don't even know what you call those cars. But anyway, the pickup trucks with kicker is on the back of them with AR fifteen rifles that say come

and take it. Right. The sticker in and of itself is a threat, right, It's to signify that the person driving the vehicle is armed. And ready to use it and you come and take it. There is this toxic masculinity that is intertwined with this rights, this battle over gun rights in this country. You have those that are on the radical right that believe that there should be

no background checks, no waiting period, no nothing. You can get an AR fifteen faster than any woman in this country, and especially now we'll be able to get an abortion right. You can take somebody's life right with an AR fifteen, no background check, no nothing. And they think that one of those things is murder right and the other is following the constitution. The hypocrisy, it is not lost on me,

and it shouldn't be lost on any of us. But when I look at Kyle Rittenhouse, when I looked at his bullshit testimony on the stand, and again I say I was not following this with great eyes. And the reason is, and I tweeted it yesterday because I actually care about my mental health. And this is the difference between Danielle from a couple of years ago and Danielle now. And this is why I offer to all of you, all of the time to take a break so that

you don't have a breakdown. I remember following George Zimmerman's trial, because at that point, and this is back when in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, that I believed still right. This is only six seven years ago, but I believed still at that moment in time, in our justice system, even given all of the past cases that I had seen, I believe that there was no way, there was no way that this grown man was going to murder a child who was armed with nothing more than an Arizona

iced tea and a bag of skittles. That there was no way that our justice system was going to put the dead child on trial. And it was after that case, and after the not guilty for George Zimmerman, that I lost every single little strand of hope that I had in this country. Because if you can justify the murdyr not even by a police officer, but by a random white, fucking vigilante on the street, if that can be just a five, then there is no hope for the forgetting

rid of qualified immunity for police officers. There is no hope in you you will have a once in a millennium trial like Derek Chauvin right where it's just so heinous that we must do something because millions of people left their homes in the middle of a pandemic to protest against what we all witnessed collectively a murder in broad daylight at the hands of an unrelenting police officer.

So something had to be done in that case. But for the rest of them, right, I wonder sometimes what would have happened if there had been video of George Zimmerman. What if we weren't taking his word for it, just the word of some random white guy who was a want to be cop, who was a want to be neighborhood watch person and wanted to feel big, bad and strong, because it's this small, fragile white ego, right that what

would have happened? And frankly, you know, I don't even want to say that we got lucky with George Floyd, and I say that with all dripping with sarcasm, trust and understand that that it was because of Darnella Frasier. It was because of all of the witnesses and bystanders, including young children, that Derek Chauvin is in jail. But it had it been left to the police report, had it been left to just hearsay without video evidence, where

do you think Derek Chauvin would be. He'd probably be someplace with a promotion, because he had been consistently promoted over the course of his time in the police department. So here we have now fast forward, not even a decade removed from the murder of treyvon Martin, not even you know, a little over a year plus a year and a half since the murder of George Floyd. And

here we are. We got multiple cases. Right now. You have the trial of those who murdered Ahmad Aubrey saying that they were trying to make a citizen's arrest because white people feel that if they don't like a black person in their space, in their face, that they can just kill them, that they can corner you, run us down like fucking animals and do what they will. Because again, without the public outrage and outcry, we would have taken and by we, I mean America would have taken again

what the police officers wrote down. Even though those fucking brothers were covered in blood, they were allowed to go home that day because we believe whiteness above all else. So no, I'm not spending my energy sitting in front of the television taking consistent notes watching how our injustice system ruins the lives of so many black and brown men, women and children, and uplifts the lives of white murderers, known murderers. Cutlon Rittenhouse was out drinking beers in a bar.

He wasn't even romanded to prison, seen as a threat to society over the last year. No, he was at home, he was hanging out, he was kicking at It is

amazing to me. And I know that I say this often, the grace and the patience and the loving highness that the black community shows this country, because I got to tell you there are days when I do not have that strength to muster, and on those days, I stay the fuck home, Because I got to tell you that when I think just about the last four years, when I think about the fact that I believe America to be a just volcano that is simmering right, bubbling up

these different bubble points, just waiting to erupt, they have the audacity to call out the National Guard with Kyle Writtenhouse. You wouldn't need the National Guard if we actually believed in our justice system, and we don't even question that, right,

Why do you need to call the police? Oh? Because it's black people that are so fucking violent, or an entire white supremist injustice system that we know that we cannot trust, and yet you don't see us popping off on a day to day basis against this oppressive system that literally tries to murder us each and every day, whether it's a cop pulling somebody over on a highway, a white vigilante deciding to run somebody down, the dismissiveness,

or the constant calling of police by the Karens. Even if you are asleep in your own bed, like Brianna Taylor, even if you are in your own home, you can

be gunned down. So there is no safe space. And I want people to think about that about if you are not black or brown or from a marginalized community, think about what it means to be in your home, to be in your skin, and know that there is no safe space for you to exist in that At any moment, someone who doesn't like the way that you look, doesn't like how loud your music is, doesn't like the way that you speak, doesn't want your presence, can take you out and there will be no justice to follow.

That's what it's like to be black and Brown in America. It's amazing that we can find joy. And that's why I say what supremacy is not going to take my focus and attention away from me? All day every day, I do my work, I do my research and my analysis. But do you know where my focus and my center is in my friends, in my family and my loved ones. That's where I have moved to in these days. I used to stay in the state aid of rage, and what I realize is just how unhealthy and toxic it was,

because that's what they want. They want me fearful, they want me small, they want me to believe that I have no access and no rights. But even in the midst of the most cruel and unjust system of slavery, my ancestors were jumping brooms to commemorate their weddings. We're creating loving families and bonds and rituals, even if by day they're being lashed and beaten and raped. They refuse to have the entirety of their humanity stripped from them.

That is what I call generational strength. So these cases will continue to happen, and once this case is done, there will be several more. For every single headline that we all collectively know understand that there are hundreds that we will never and so do your best to put your focus and your energy where it is needed. And again that does not mean not to tap in, but it means to understand and know when to tap out. Because I'm choosing in these days not to fight fire

with fire, because I refuse to burn out. But I'm going to fight their hate and their fire and their vituol with my unrelenting joy, and I hope that you all choose to do the same. Coming up next is my conversation with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, where we will talk about what else but the failings of the Democratic Party and whether or not we've lost

the midterm elections before they've even started. Folks, you know that when it is a Wednesday, I'm always so happy to be joined by our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, who runs us through the gamut of COVID and democratic messaging and why, why why we may be headed off of a cliff, you know, the one that I'm trying I constantly scream about on a regular basis, Jonathan. So Democrats, we finally got an infrastructure bill passed I don't want to breathe over that and think that it wasn't a

big deal. It was what seemed like months of negotiations in order to get this bipartisan bill done. To me, to be honest, I could give a damn about whether it was bipartisan or not. I wanted it to be progressive. I wanted it to be as big as the New Deal. I wanted it to matter to the American people that risk their lives in a pandemic to vote for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to get things done, to switch

over from the Trump nightmare into a better future. What are your feelings about where we have landed right now with this administration, given that both the president and the vice president's numbers polling numbers not great. Democrats as a whole, they're polling numbers not great, and as we get ready to change the calendar year, we know that we are revving up for midterm elections. Oh man, where am I going to start here? I mean, we really have a lot to talk about. I mean, so I'll just say

a couple things. First of all, I'm doing a focus group project across the South right now, interviewing people about the stimulus. Right, So this is not the infrastructure. And as you know, I have strong opinions that they should have passed the damn infrastructure three months ago, but the stimulus. And the thing is, I've interviewed tons of people who are conservative who are here and I'm doing most of

the interviews in Kentucky and Tennessee. And the kind of standard interview is either I got money from the stimulus, but that's what tanked the economy and so I'm against the whole thing. Or I lost my job for four months. The stimulus got me through, but people are getting addicted to federal money and I'm against the stimulus. In other words, I've done like hundreds of interviews now where people are. They actually hate the Democrats for the free money that

they gave them. And so I think that's important for two reasons. Number one is, don't tell me that passing an infrastructure bill now without messaging is going to make any difference. It's not going to make any difference, I'm unfortunately.

And so when I see that the Democrats are going to run on the infrastructure bill, I'm like, no, don't do that without without without shaping the narrative, just because just telling people you're giving them in this economy at this moment is not a winning argument for a lot of people. And number two is I realized there's a lot of underlying ideologies. You know, it was pretty racist.

A lot of the stuff like people would say, oh, you know, I'm getting back on my feet, but those other people who are having twelve kids, they're getting addicted to federal money. The language of addiction goes back to like the welfare queen blah blah blah, that kind of thing. But leaving that aside, which of course you can't, the point is also the Democrats gave nobody an alternative narrative. They didn't frame the narrative. They were just like, here's money,

because it's good, and don't you want money? So the Republicans are great at like no matter what it is, and usually it's like here's a bowl of like shit stew, but right, But what they're doing is they're saying, here's the narrative, you can understand it. Democrats are like, well, of course, of course you want healthcare because we're all human and you're going to figure that on your own. So the issue is what I saw even with free money from the government when people needed it, without shaping

the narrative of what that meant. It actually it didn't. It didn't make a difference. It opened up for all the other crap. And I feel like we're doing the same thing with the infrastructure, which is yes, it gave people something to run on. Now. Of course, as you know, I think we should have passed the damn thing three

months ago so we could have shaped the narrative. But now we passed it at a time where we're behind the eight ball, and so I have strong opinions about how we could be messaging in swing states, and let me just say, it's not. It's not what we're doing now. So I'm I mean, of course you're it's good to be nervous. I'm glad like you and I have a lot of company in the nervous category right now. But people should be nervous because even at this moment where

we're doing something good, we're not shaping the narrative. And I think that's that's a major mistake. Again, let me ask you this so in these conversations, because I'm blown away, first of all, that even when you give people shit for free, that that the people that you are talking to are aggravated by getting their money right, because this is what it is when you got the bid stimulus, that is your return tax dollars that you work for getting it back, as opposed to it going to provide

tax breaks to the rich. So I'm confused about how many people were in economic downturns. Right. We saw lines of people wrapped around food pantries for miles and miles at a time. We saw millions of people lose their jobs. So just clarify for me, you know, how is it that these people I mean, like what I'm hearing, Jonathan, I guess with the folks that you interview, you know, across the rust belt around the country, in southern places, is that they really just genuinely are willing to die

of whiteness, like it doesn't matter. Like is there anything that you are hearing that would lend you to believe that there is a narrative that Democrats can offer that isn't just going to have these people cut off their nose despite their face. Because if I'm saying to you, you need help, and here is the federal government to help you, but you are more concerned with being a racist and making sure that no one else provides help.

There's no narrative I'm offering you other than oh, the only the only people getting the economic stimulus are white people, because you guys are deserving and no one else is going to get anything. And then they would come running

out and probably throw a parade for Biden. I mean, our goal is to win elections, and to win elections, you've got to convince the people in the middle and solidify your base right and so are if we just thought, oh, everybody's fixed in their racist ways, which they are, we you know we were not going to So our goal is to win elections, and so how do we address our core base right and particularly right now, particularly voters

of color. You know, Democrats are at risk of selling them out, to be honest, So how do you do that? But also, and there are a lot it's not just it's not just one race of people. There are a lot of people who are in the middle, who are worried about inflation, who are worried about the economy, all this kind of stuff. So how do you solidify that? Well, Number one, you have one coherent party narrative. You don't have seventy the way the Democrats do, right now, that's

number one. But number two is you kind of anticipate, You kind of anticipate some of this stuff with themes I mean I'm seeing this with I mean, we're going to lose abortion now. It seems like a gun deal.

But if you ask people, does a woman have a right to an abortion or if you ask people to do a woman and her doctor have the right to make a decision within the privacy of the doctor's exam room that works best for the women the second question, eighty percent of the people will agree with the second question, even if thirty percent of people will agree with the first question. Right. In other words, the way you frame

this stuff really shapes that you have to understand. Oh yeah, half the country they care about autonomy and liberty and personal decision and so how you frame it matters. And it's the same with free money, Believe it or not. Free money has a really complicated history, as does free healthcare. Well that's what I found in my research because it ties into government networks and r all these kind of things.

But the problem is, if you know that about your audience, you should actually work it to your advantage, right, so they'll vote for you and support you. That's the goal, so you can do more shit you want to do. And so part of the issue is I just saw with the Affordable Care Act, if we said, oh, we're building a big community network because health is a human right and all that, well, that shit works in New York. It doesn't work here in the South. It really doesn't.

If you say health is a human right, somebody's going to tell you to stick your human right up your petuity. I mean, that's just how it works on here because everybody's like, it's my choice with my doctor, and so what they should have said what the Affordable Care Act is, it's your choice with your doctor, medical rights like some crap like that, and we don't do that. And so I mean, I'm just saying, like, you have to market it toward your audience, right, if marketed towards your audience.

And it's the same thing with this infrastructure. It's like, if exactly what you said, it's your money, let's put it to work in your neighborhood in a way that works for you. That's a brilliant message that would work down here if you said infrastructure is a human right. I don't know, it's great. I agree with that. I mean, I study structural racism, but I would also say you're not going to win an election that way. So again, I feel like the Democrats are missing the message potentially,

I mean, not everybody. I'm being pretty broad here, except to say, like, let's learn from the failure of the Affordable Care Act and let's start telling the narrative in a way that puts the other side on the defensive, which is not what we're doing and not what we've been doing. You know, one of the things last week I had a conversation with washahat Ali Daily Beasts calumnists and calumnists with the New York Times, and you know, he brought up your book, and you know, I'm one

of the things that he was saying. It's just like, you know, in terms of his idea for messaging, and I want to ask you. He's like, here's the thing, We're never getting white people back in the Democratic Party. And the reality is is that we need to stop chasing the Karens, and we need to stop chasing all of these people. When ninety percent of white men vote Republican, what we know to be true. Is that close to sixty percent of white women vote Republican and have since

in nineteen fifties. Right, And so right now, when you look at the when you look at the Democratic Party, he said that you're looking at it roughly about forty five percent of white people, right, and everybody else is bipoc. Right.

And so I'm confused about why we keep going after these people and trying to convince them of the messaging and trying to contort ourselves into you know, dog whistle messaging that they will then get on board with because they're rapidly racist, instead of figuring out how we then continue to expand the party that is already expanding, Like we continue to message to the wrong people and deliver things for the wrong people time and time again. White

people are not the base of the Democratic Party. It is everyone else. And so I just don't for me, And as I was listening to watch and he's like going through the numbers, and it's just like, when are we going to wake up to this fact? And I know these are the people that you talk to, and you're telling me, you know, there is a way to win them over, And I'm saying, I don't want to waste the energy, and as sure as hell, don't want

the party to waste the energy. When in fact, if we had come out of the gate with voting rights, if we had come out of the gate with police reform, if we had come out of the gate with all of the things that the BIPOC Democratic Party wanted and voted for, then we would be better positioned than we are right now. But once again, we are chasing forty five percent. Forty five percent is the number that we're chasing around this country as opposed to the majority. Well,

I love Wi. I mean, he's the dude, and we're friends, and and I think there's a lot of truth to that. But I'm going to push back on his point a little bit if you don't mind. Which is a couple of things. I mean, number one is it's not like white people are some monolithic block right and and and it's not like it's like crazy ass right wingers on one side and people kneeling with Kentae cloth on the other, like it's that's you know, that's actually not the reality.

And so unfortunately, we like we just saw in an election two weeks ago, we lost a lot of white people who voted for Democrats a year ago. Right, And so I think the minute we start seeing this in a zero sum game of either we're voting were four BIPOC voters or for way, the minute we do that, we've lost, right, because then we're rearticulating the winner take all winner versus lou rus or tribalism that unfortunately works just much better for the Republicans. I mean, if it

was a winning strategy, sign me up. You know where's my can't take cloth, I'll join, you know whatever, Like I don't care, But my point is it doesn't work, right, I mean, we just saw in Virginia why it doesn't work,

which is the way the electoral system is. And you can certainly give national numbers that are true, and so the numbers you gave certainly are true for national numbers, but the US electoral system unless we want to change the whole system, which needs obviously I know what I'm saying,

Like you know, in our lifetime. Unfortunately, the system we're working and even to get the power to change the system, the system we're working in is you know, I wrote that piece The Politics of White Anxiety, before the election, which laid this all out that in a way, the structure of our system is that it overweighs particular states, particular demographics, and certainly generate jeremandering is making that point, and so I mean, I think the minute you say

to hell with all the white people or something you know, which I understand is not what he's saying, you're going to see a result like in Virginia, where it actually makes it harder to make change, not easier. Now, the point I'm making is not that we should kiss white people's testes. I'm not saying that. What I am saying, but I am saying is that the minute it's either

or we've lost. Right. So you can have police reform and criminal justice reform and voting reform, all those kind of things, and you can also do the things I'm talking about, which is articulate to voters who are in the middle, who have all the power and the electoral system. You can articulate to them in a much better way than we've done, a zillion times better way, why they should, why progressive policies might work for them, why we might

bring them along in a particular way. And so we're not doing that at all, right, we're not doing that. So it's not like, because we are doing police reform or we're doing voting reform, we have to give up on messaging to centrist white voters. We should be messaging more to centrist white voters. The last thing I'll say so let me let me push back, right, which is one, I do not believe that Democrats lost in Virginia because

of their messaging. Like one, I do think that infrastructure and the passage of infrastructure would have been something to run on. But let let us all be clear that Terry mcculloff ran a bullshit campaign, right. His campaign had no messaging. He was like, oh, I was the guy in twenty thirteen, so vote for me again. I'm not Trump Like that was his that was his message. Terry mcculloff didn't even run on his own accomplishments from twenty thirteen.

So I don't want us to confuse like his inability to campaign in this current moment and actually galvanize the Biden you know, allegiance that was created in twenty twenty and say like, oh, it failed in twenty twenty one because he didn't reach out to white folks. Because I'm like he didn't reach out to anyone, and that and that, and that was entirely the fuck up of his of

that campaign. But the but on the other hand, my feeling is this, when you go back and you said, you know, we're not a zero sum and when we start doing this either or right, we lose. But I will say this, Jonathan, that as a black queer woman in America, the only way that our government has ever operated is in a zero sum. And the people that are always at the losing end of it and will continue to be are people of color, namely black people.

It's always like, oh, well, we gave you a holiday that actually doesn't mean anything, right Juneteenth, because we can't teach it, we can't talk about it, and we can't you know, we have no context around it. But here's this little thing. We know that you want rights, right, but look, we're not racist. Here's a holiday. It's like, oh, we we know that you need, you know, job security and economic stability right to close the racial wealth gap, but we put up a BLM flag. So is it

isn't that enough? Black folks and people of color are always are always part of the zero sum, and we're always the group that loses in the in the choice that the Democratic and Republican Party make in order to turn themselves in contortion into contortionists to appease racist white folks. Well, I mean, no doubt every word you've just said it's true.

I'll start with the beginning. I mean, Captain Crunch would have run a better campaign than Yeah, I mean, and especially with free crunch berries for people and stuff like that boy in the box. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that was I think you're dating yourself there. But but but no, so one hundred percent that's true. One hundred percent that's true. It was not inspiring. But the point is the Democrats also lost ground in every election on

that same day. They lost ground in New Jersey, they lost ground in upstate New York, they lost ground in like a million other places. U And again there's a there's a wave all this kind of thing. But I mean, part of the issue is if the goal is winning elections, right, then you have to also be able to frame your frame your positions in a way that the Democrats have

done in a much better way. Now, as as we've talked about here, I mean, there was the infrastructure bill, and then there's the social safety net issue, right, And so I thought from the beginning they should have passed the infrastructure bill, even though it would have they would have lost leverage, that's I agree with that, but at least it would have given them something that would have been a wedge issue to peel people away, to say

we're giving you infrastructure, what's your what's your person doing? And I also think infrastructure is I mean again, I study structural racism. Infrastructure is incredibly relevant for writing historical inequities like um, you know, and it's putting highways through people's neighborhoods is like the least that's the beginning, redlining,

school boards, taxation, everything you name it. So I think they could have run a campaign, not not McCaul iugh, but Captain Crunch or anybody else could have run a campaign using infrastructure in a way that would have up the pressure to then bring back people to the table with pressure that wasn't like the lever pressure. But considering they ended up passing the infrastructure built anyway without the social net, they should have done it three months ago.

And so I think, I think, really that was a massive, massive miss, and I think we have to we have to take some ownership of that. I mean, I think, you know, I think we take some ownership of that, and because I think it was a miscalculation if you just judge it by the end result. Now, of course exactly what you're saying is true, but I think, you know, really the question is is I mean, let's look, let's be honest, is the change within the political system or

in opposition to the political system, right? I think that's really what's at play for a lot of people on all sides of this right now. If we're going to if we're going to do it the way of like win election and get power and make changes, which the infrastructure built does, then we should think about how can we win elections, which is solidify your base, don't sell out your base like they're doing yep. But also don't drop a bomb on people the way they feel like,

you know, don't don't you know what I mean? We've made Democrats more vulnerable to this inflation message by waiting and dilly dillying and all that kind of stuff. So it's it can't be. My point is it can't be either or if the goal is to win elections, you can't be losing New Jersey and upstate New York. I mean, you know, you can't. We can't be losing ten points on that. So mccaulough aside, I just think the warning signs are flashing red that we've got to do something differently.

And as I always argue, it's not like the outcome is different, right, It's not like the outcome is different. But I don't think again, I just think if we're saying to hell with you, we're just going to the danger. Just let me say this. I don't I'm not saying well. I mean, well, I say to hell with you, right, But in general, I'm not saying to hell with you. I'm just saying I'm no longer pandering to you, right,

And that, to me is the difference. I'm not saying oh, because frankly, if I am, if I am a white person, right, who isn't a rapid racist? I too care about voting rights, I too care about police having accountability, I too care about you know, quality education and climate change and all of these like I care about these things. Right, If I'm not a Trumper, if I'm not seventy five eighty million Americans in the United States that wanted to vote

for him to have a second term. Like then I care about the same things that the foundation of the Democratic Party cares about. And all I'm saying is, so, then let's get those things done that we know that the majority voted for, as opposed to going after and appeasing the few at the expense of the many, right, right, I mean there's no monolithic block now, right, I mean it's like there, you know, there's always like all white people are not they're not all voting as white people.

And you know, now we have herschel Walker. But I mean part of the issue is when when Trump for four years of the Trump administration, they were building a base, reaching out in very clan to sign ways to black men and conservative Latin X voters and stuff like that, Like they were basically saying, what the hell the Democrats

drink for you? And I feel like there's a playbook there that the republic that the Democrats should be doing, which is we never put we never put Democrats, and we never put Republicans on the defensive with their with their own base in a way. And so again, I just think we're doing the right thing in now. But I just think we're not being strategic, strategic enough about it. And again the goal, the goal should be to win elections. And so again I completely agree with what you're saying.

I'm just saying that. I mean, the danger really is is that we're building the Democratic Party as a resistance party in opposition to the Republican Party, which is being built as like a get a whole power at all cross party. It's a it's a model for how to get and hold power at all costs. And so to fight that, you've got to you've got to have power strategies,

not just resistant strategies. Last question for you, if you are reading the tea leaves, we are, you know, about a year away from you know, a little a little less than that, but about a year away from midterm elections. You're reading the tea leaves, how do we end up? I mean, the mccaulliff election, it's it's not enough just to say he was a crap candidate. He was a bad candidate, for sure, but but it's more like we

need to focus, we need to get disciplined. I mean, the reason Biden won in the first place is because we brought a lot of people under the tent, right, We won that election because we actually did have a coalition Centrists and progressives. And then I think both groups after the election misread the mandate right that no side would have won without the other side. And the only reason we won that election is because people came together

and figured out a way. And if we don't do that, if we if we have this inner party war, which again is misreading how we won the presidential election, then I think we're in big trouble. If we can turn that around, figured this out somehow. I mean again, like all the people who voted for Biden, it wasn't it wasn't any no one group was going to put Biden

over the top by himself. Many people were out there, certainly, I mean, I completely agree with you, but I'm saying that the message of the Biden election was also people did form a coalition which all of a sudden was incredibly damn formidable, Like a lot of people voted for it. And so if we recapture that somehow, if we figure that out, I think I think it. I think we're unbeatable. But if we keep doing what we're doing now, um, then I think we're in trouble. Yeah, I agree, and that.

You know, the last thing that I will say on this is that I do believe that one group put Biden over because had he not won the South Carolina primary, had Jim Clyburn not come out and galvanized black people in South Carolina, we I don't even know if we would be having this discussion outside of a prison somewhere. We're all heading there, We're heading there. Again. It's it's it's delicate to say because it's not It's not like what I'm saying is in any way disrespectful to the

amazing efforts. But there's no doubt about that. But I'm saying that, you know, the ten percentage point of people in swing states who now vote Republican, you know what I mean. Like, it's it's a million different things. And certainly, um, there's no doubt that if the South Carolina changed the course of history. There's no doubt that people standing in line into great perils of themselves in Pennsylvania changed the course of history. There's no doubt that all these things.

I mean, for sure, that's true. For sure, people of color saved the United States, There's no doubt about that. But I would also say that part of the story was also that it was ultimately like how many people seventy eighty million whatever voted, and so ultimately also that was also the story of people saving each other and we and we had a narrative that brought people under this in a way that brought people together. And right

now we don't have that. We're very tribalized. And I guess the point I'm trying to make is the minute we're tribalized, that works together side, it doesn't work for us. That's why I'm so against all this year or some stuff, because that's what they're trying to do to us. And if we don't see that that's the game, and we don't actually respond by taking care of everybody and as best we can figuring out a way to build a coalition, then unfortunately I think we're that you know, we're going

to again. We're going to be a resistance party, not a power party. As always, doctor Jonathan Metzol, we appreciate your insight, your analysis, and your passion. Thank you so much for making time as always to join Woke. App take care back to COVID next week. Everybody, that is it for me today, Folks on Woke app as always Power to the people and to all the people. Power, Get woke and stay woke as fuck.