Regressive Nation

some type of federal prison for political prisoners. Friends, the decision that came out, that was leaked by the Supreme Court to erase Rov Wade, to undo fifty years of work of equality of justice in this country as it pertains to women and pregnant people, is beyond a wake up call. Because here's the thing that I have been saying, and you will hear me, Delvin, to this conversation with our friend today, doctor Jonathan Metzel, is that this is

only the beginning. This is only the fucking beginning. If Roe v. Wade can fall after fifty fucking years, what do you think isn't on the table? Do you understand? Because they are going to come for contraception, they are going to come for same sex marriage, they are going to come for social security, they are going to come for desegregated schools, they are going to come for immigration, they are going to come for every fucking right that we have ever won over the last sixty plus years.

We have a case that I talked about last week with regard to prayer in schools. Right at the same time that we are having a conversation in Washington State about a fired coach's ability to organize prayer for his football team to do so on the fifty yard line, we're having that conversation. We're rolling back abortion rights, we have already gutted voting rights. We are allowing cops to kill black and brown people have been right with impunity. Where do you think the fuck we go from here?

You know, on my other show, Democracy Issue that I do with my friend ja jahat Ali, you know, he always would say, he's always saying, Daniel, they want to take us back to nineteen fifty two. He wouldn't say nineteen fifty three. It was nineteen fifty two, right, Because the front lines of the conservative, white, even jelical Christian cult movement has always been in our schools, but it has also been right at all levels too. What is the word I'm even looking for, Folks, I'm struggling. I'm

struggling today, So please bear with me. I am struggling. I stayed up overnight, I did not sleep. I wrote a piece in the Daily Beast, which I will share with you now. The anger and the rage that I feel has driven me to tears more times today than I can count, because I am worried. I am worried about the lives of all of us. I am worried about our lives for people who are not white, who are not straight, who are not Siths, who are not Christian.

In this country, they have declared war, they have long since declared war. And I'm reading strongly worded fucking statements by the Biden administration, by the Harris by Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris, I thought was a fucking prosecutor of the largest goddamn staying in the country. Where the fuck is she?

This administration is too busy hiding the fact that a black woman, right an Asian woman, is a vice president of the United States, that they think that what if they keep her out of camera shots and Mike shot that what the rabbit white racist will forget? Folks. I am so fucking tired of Democrats running scared. I am so fucking tired of watching Chuck Schumer wag his fucking finger and say, this is infuriating, as if you didn't fucking know what Republicans have been doing out in the

open for fifty fucking years. This ain't new. They didn't come up with this plan overnight. They have been activated at the state and local level for decades, waiting for this moment. When I watched Elizabeth Warren, Senator Elizabeth Warren enraged as she's walking to her car. Senator Elizabeth Warren has said, they have been organized, they have been catalyzed.

What the fuck have we been doing patting ourselves on the back for Democratic presidents that turn around and then we realized that the executive branch under Democrats doesn't have as much fucking power as it should. I won't tell you that we don't have a leader in this moment.

This is a thing that troubles me the most is that back in the nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, before they were all assassinated, we had fucking leaders that were out front, that were speaking the truth, that were organizing people. People were willing to sacrifice because what they have understood, what they have always understood, is that freedom is not free. There is a cost to freedom. People have given up their lives on the way to bring

us along to the path to freedom. We couldn't even stay in the fucking house for three months and watch Netflix when we were asked to quarantine. They want to open up the country, open up the states. Do you think right now that we have the fortitude to do what needs to be done, to go out into these streets and not to leave. Do you think that we have the ability to collectively decide that we ain't tapping

into fucking capitalism. We're sitting the fuck out that all that is left is to figure out what is going to hurt them and hit them where it hurts, instead of thinking that we're gonna go to the negotiation table and negotiate our humanity, negotiate our fucking lives. Fuck them. This is the place that I have been at. I ain't somebody tweet at me talking about I hate wokeness, right, I am so against wokeness. Oh so you want to live your life asleep because that's what the fuck you

just said. Oh, I'm against woke culture. So you're against consciousness because what you prefer is what George Orwell had laid out for us in nineteen eighty four. You prefer somebody else to do your thinking for you so that you can just sit back and what be in depository for their bullshit, because you think that that's what's going to keep you safe. Folks, we are not in a good place. Things are going to get much worse. And I don't even know if the rest of us will

live to see things get better the first half. Right, I'm thinking of my life. I have no idea what it's like to live in a country that doesn't have access to abortion. You see, because everything and people will say, and you tell me in the comments section. My life, my lifetime has been about progression towards progress, right. It has been about us moving the needle generation by generation.

We had never reached a point in my lifetime where the needle was just ripped out and thrown away, where it wasn't about expansion of rights, it was about trying to regain them. You see, once you lose constitutional rights, they're just gone. Once you lose democracy, it don't just come back. Right. That's the thing that I believe that folks, especially the democratic establishment, are still sitting around and believing that they're going to get another bite at the apple

post mid terms in a handful of months. Are they crazy? Are we all watching the same things unfold in the confirmation hearings you had any COVID Barrett, you had that rapist Kavanaugh lie tell the American people that, oh, what is law? What is precedented? Will stand? Do we understand now that these motherfuckers will just tell you what it is that you want to hear when you want to hear it, and then do what and then do the opposite?

Do we get that now? Do we get that these people that Joe Biden still considers his friends would rather see him hung from a tree alongside his vice president? Do we recognize that violence is what it is going to come from the actions that they are taking right now, because you see, there is never going to be enough. They are going to gobble up each every single right

like they are a bunch of fucking pact men. And then if we don't power in their presence, if we do not submit, what do you think that they're going to do? You think they're just gonna leave us all alone to be and to brood. No, they are going to take us out. They are going to make examples of those of us that decide to continue to speak out. They are going to terrorize and dismantle communities and organizations

that have been working for and towards equity. We are living in the most unstable and unjust times that any of us have ever seen. I want to read to you a part of my Peace with the Day Beast, which is upright now. And you know I posted this. It was posted, I should say, at about one o'clock in the morning after the decision was leaked, because that's what happens. My mother said to me, so, I guess you just can't sleep these days, And I said, what

does that look like? No, I can't. The title of my piece has caused a lot of people to be very upset, and I said, you know, what I would love is that if people would actually look past the titles of things and read articles. But you know, alas they don't do that either. But what it does is lay out the ways in which this could have been avoided.

How we could have maintained a five to four split in a Supreme court if Democrats had any strategy or a fucking backbone and didn't think that, you know, the world was just filled with an unlimited amount of chances. It's entitled. Ruth Bader Ginsburg could probably have saved Roe by retiring. Yeah, I said, what the fuck I said? But she earned the right to make her choice. Point a finger instead at Democrats who've proven they will give in while Republicans will fight to the end to protect

their power. The death of Ruth of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg in twenty twenty was almost two on the nose for a year marred by unimaginable tragedy and trauma whose impact was sorely felt. Monday night, when Elite drafted the majority decision written by Justice Alito in the highly anticipated Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization case, appeared to seal the fate of Roe v. Wade, the nineteen seventy three

decision that legalized abortion nationwide. As one of the most esteemed liberal justices to sit on the bench, Ginsburg had scoffed at the idea of retiring before she felt that she could quote no longer do the job following multiple bouts with cancer and a broken hip. Her ability to conquer each health obstacle with perseverance and strength turned her into a living feminist, folk hero and rock star until her death at the age of eighty seven. She seemed

indestructible until she wasn't. Now the question must be asked, could her retirement at the age of eighty and then President Obama's second term have deterred America's now inevitable backslide into a neo dark age's where the freedom to control one's life and destiny no longer exists for those dwelling outside the womb. In that alternative future, the Court would still have a conservative majority, but a narrower five to four split would have at least given a semblance of hope.

Now here's where is here in the piece? Is my t be sure? Because folks, you know I am not an attorney. I am not a lawyer, but I understand how policy works and I understand politics. So I go on to say this. Ginsburg alone couldn't have saved the Court, but in giving up her seat, she could have stalled its transformation into the conservative juggernaut that is about to

achieve the Republican's holy grail. Then President Trump was able to seat three justices in a single term thanks to the diabolical strategic maneuvering of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who aided and abetted Trump in the hijacking of the courts, and with them our democracy. Folks. You know that when it is Wednesday, I'm always grateful to be joined by our friends and in house doctor doctor Jonathan Metzl, author of the book Dying of Whiteness. Jonathan, you know, let

me tell you something. I don't know where the fuck to begin, and I'm just gonna curse a lot because I feel I can't say that the leaked Scotus decision in the Mississippi abortion case has caught me off guard,

because that would be a lie. I can't say that I didn't believe that, after fifty years of hammering at the same nail, that I didn't think eventually that white evangelical Christians and the rabid Republican base wouldn't eventually send that nail through the uteruses of women across this country. But what I can say is that Democrats have as a whole, have woefully underestimated the Republican Party and have

woefully underestimated white evangelical Christians and their power. Tell me how you are feeling today, um as a medical professional, as a progressive um. Waking up to and having absorbed this news, well, I don't curse very much, you know. I usually let you do the cursing, and I'm like the voice of reason. But today, like Smegma, you know, what the hell I'm going to say every cursor? I know, like, because because it's a it's an insane moment. It's an

insane um for a couple of reasons. Number one, of course, is it just in of itself is horrible. Number Two, there's this leak. We don't know, I mean, the league, we don't know the story of the leak. Was it somebody on our side, somebody on their side? Was it the Russians hacking? Like we don't know. So there's also the bigger story about the you know, also a story about the institution. But also this pretends a lot of

really bad shit. I mean, if if that is the decision, which we don't know what, I mean, the one thing is what will the final decision look like? But even if that was a draft of a decision, I mean, that was pretty close to like let's keep women at

home baking pies, M kind of deal. Yeah, And so just the assumption about just that people think about gender that way is so upsetting and and so you know, even if you study this, so shocking and so unbelievable that that we're going to go to this red you know, retrograde gender kind of stuff. But of course that's what happens when societies go through you know, Tehran was a totally vibrant place, very route, totally vibrant place, you know,

Russia fifteen twenty years ago. I mean, so when societies go backward, they go backward on race and gender. That's kind of how they go backward. I mean, they go backward on a maddow their stuff. Two. So I think the issue is, you know, I think people are waking up today to the realization that they can't really take it for granted that really, when societies go backward, this is what happens. The rights that people have are not etched in granted forever. And so these are things we're

going to have to fight for. You know, here's the thing that I want to talk to you too about, because you are essentially an investigative reporter. Excuse me, when it comes to understanding whiteness. Talk to me about white women, right, now and the fact that we think that this is going to wake white women up. I mean, that's for me is the hardest thing, honestly is I mean the two hardest things for me in terms of that narrative. First, of course is pain and anger and fury and sadness

of what this means. But beyond that, I'm surprised how many people are surprised, Like where you've been, Um, you know that they've been. This has been quite predictable. And number two, I think it's important for people to realize that this moment right now took fifty years for these other dudes to do, and it was fifty years of starting at the bottom. They lost, and what they do. They ran for local elections, They figured out how to

seat judges at the local level. They ran, as we've said a million times on here, for school board and election officials, and they figured out what kind of deals they had to make with odious businesses and stuff like that. So it was kind of like an eyes on the prize momentum that as we know, and involves a lot of people. And so really the question right now is did the Democrats the Democrats have it in them to sustain the fight that this is going to take um.

And I think that's a fair question. I mean, I think that there are a lot of women who agree with this decision. Obviously, there are a lot of people who feel on many sides of this. So the question

is can Democrats and mobilize what this is going to take? Um? No, Okay, they can't because none of this was a shock, right, Like you're taking fifty years to write the same playbook and literally just roll out different volumes every single year over five decades, and Democrats have come up with no plan, no plan whatsoever to comeback this which was to control the courts, to expand the courts, and then to control them, meaning that every single time that there was a Democrat

going back even before Clinton, that that should have been the main goal, but it wasn't. But the thing is our base, that's never been our the argument of our base. Right. In other words, like the one thing I was thinking when you asked me about spending a lot of time interviewing white people, when you interview Republicans, like their goal is control the courts, get power, and everybody be like, well what about your healthcare and what about your thing?

I mean that's what I thought, and they're like, no, we want to control the courts and get power and implement our thing. And so, you know, mister McConnell is like the perfect illustration of that. Everything just just about getting the course and Democrats we've had. Think of all the random issues we've had over the years that are hot button issues for five minutes and then they go away, and stuff like that, and even stuff that really matters.

I mean, I study guns, and after mass shootings there would be like two weeks of fury and marches and never again and that kind of stuff, and then people would go home and do their own thing. But I've just stay studying Republicans, like I don't know, these fuckers slept in front of women's abortion clinics for fifty years. They're still out there tonight. And so in a way that you know, it's hard because the Democrats are, as we've said here, a confederation of a lot of different interests.

So the question is will this be the one that mobilizes people, that creates a common cause. And the reason I'm skeptical of that A is because of history, as you say, but B also is because a lot more bad shit is coming down the pike. So this is this is you know, if you're going to use this logic, then there's a lot more bad stuff coming. What do you think that the bottom is? Where do you think

that it goes? Um? In studying, in studying these people really understanding how their brains work, what is their end goal? Like literally like this this was the holy grail. Abortion, I believe was the holy grail. In the decision that we have that some of us have gone through that was leaked, there is mention of the Lawrence case which was about which was about decriminalizing sodomy. There was reference

to marriage, there was reference to LGBTQ marriage. There are reference points to all of these things that have been one over the last fifty years. And so if they belief you, if this can fall, then everything that we thought was quote unquote codified into law, it's done. And so in your conversations and in your research, what does what does the utopia of white evangelical christian Hood look like?

It's weird because there's no consistency right. Nobody's ever lost a constitutional right in this country until yesterday apparently, and so all the things like states rights and the Constitution and all this kind of stuff. It's really just a smokescreen for power. But I think it's important for people to realize that a lot of the stuff like with like you can't get an abortion in Tennessee, for example, pretty much like a lot of this stuff, you can

get a gun anywhere in Tennessee. Republicans dominate the states. So if you want to know what this is going to look like, just imagine Tennessee of America, because that's

that's already happening. And I guess one of the frustrations for me why I wrote Dying a Whiteness where I'm writing the book I'm writing now, is because it was too easy, honestly for coastal liberal people to say, oh, this is this is just happening in the red state America, and we're it's like whatever, and we don't have to deal with it, like but it's coming for you, you know.

And so that was kind of the point of Dying of Whiteness was if you want to look at what's happening, look at what's happening there, and then intervene there, because that's that's the focus of where this is happening. Really try to figure out what would it mean to turn the tide, not in New York or Los Angeles, but in rural Tennessee. What would you mean to gain influence, to talk to people, to do all these kind of things.

And I can't tell you how hard that argument has been for many, many years, but I would say that that's kind of the issue is if you want to look at what this is going to be, just look to my home state, because that's kind of what it is already. And so this idea that New York is safe, I mean, you know, it's it's it's sadly tragic that people think that they're they're just going to be abortions

in Connecticut and Los Angeles and New York. Like have you not been paying attention, dude, Like you know, you think people from Tennessee are just going to get to come here and have abortions. It is not going to work that way. And so I don't know. I hope this is a wake up moment. I really do, But like I guess, I guess when I when we say things like that, and I'm not like attacking you, it's just I you know, I spent all of last night on Twitter and writing my piece that's in the Daily

Beast today that dropped, you know, in the morning. Like we say, like I hope that these things will be a wake up call. It's kind of the way that we say, you know, when a loved one dies, Oh, they're in a better place. No, they're not right, because that better place I wanted to be with me, right, not you know, in the ground or in an urn. Right. And so it's like these are things that we tell

ourselves too, I guess, make ourselves feel better. But in reality, I think that the wake up call is too late. Jonathan Well, I mean, I do think there's something palpable about the anger this morning that is different than what I felt. So I'm willing to keep the possibility open that this is a turning point moment. I mean, certainly it's a turning point moment in our country, that's right.

But I would say I can give you nine zillion examples of times that people have been angry that have been anger for the expression of anger sake, and not anger for the let's seize the mechanisms of powers stake. You know. One great one is the Women's March. It happened right when Trump was elected, very powerful, tactile, angry, coordinated event happening, But it wasn't tied to voter registration,

it wasn't tied to any specific demands about judiciary. It was very I mean, it was democratic, which was great about it. But I kept thinking, like, why aren't we doing like voter registration at this march, or why aren't

we doing something that? And so I think, you know, and it's I guess for me, it very similar to a lot of the marches we had after mass shootings where people were protesting and saying in the NRA or expand the Supreme Court, all these kind of things, and it's like, yeah, to do that, you actually have to you have to like understand how power works and they gain power like Republicans really understand that. So a wake up call and anger is not going to be enough.

It's actually going to be understanding, like I don't know, just like understand the system. We're not going to unfortunately, we're not going to expand the Supreme Court. That's not going to happen right now. That's a step wise process. And so to say stuff like that, you're just in a way risking repeating the same problem that got you here in the first place, which is not understanding top to bottom how the American political system works, which is really kind of what we have to do from here.

You know. One of the things that I've said in the piece that I wrote is that, you know, Republicans have been going at this four fifty years. They have never given up. They have fund raised off of it, they have and candidates on it. It has been much

alike with gun rights. It has been the litmus test that they have used to be able to show how conservative a candidate, whether at the school board level or um for president, has been, has been whether or not they agree with abortion, whether or not, you know, they believe in gun rights. And we don't have that kind of litmus test, right Like, we sat around and believed Susan Collins when she told us that that the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh wasn't going to mean the end of

Robie Wade. And I'm like and and people believed her, and and I'm like, are you dumb? Right? Like again, I go back to the fact that Joe Biden is a is a statesman from another fucking century, right, believing that these people are his friends, and that he's going to sit down over a glass of scotch and just hash out these you know, these big issues and then go about his day. This is they played to win. And I don't think that we're getting another bite at

the apple. I don't think we're going to get another opportunity to pick up the ball. I think that this is it right for women's rights. I think that what's next is lgbt Q rights. I think that what comes after that is, you know, is the d is a resegregation of schools. I think that they are coming for everything pre nineteen fifty two. That's a sad I mean, that's a sad world. Um yeah, I mean, but not for white not for cis agender had a row white men.

It's not it is the world. Well yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's what I mean, clearly, that's what we're facing. I mean, in other words, when you read that opinion, even if it was just like notes to myself, I'm dictating on the treadmill, you know, and maybe that'll stuff

a log get taken out of the final. But if the leaker was on our side, I think people wanted to see, like here's the here's the here's what's at stake here, And so if the leaker was on our side and not like a Russian packer, I think I think it's important to see this draft, even though it's you know, antithetical to how we think about the court. Um but um. But I would also say, I don't know. I just think of all the democratic things and now is not the time to be critical Democrats, not now

the time to unify. But I've said on this show a bunch of times like, um, like, oh, you know, we hate Management and Cinema because they don't vote for the Social Safety Net plan and therefore, I mean they're douchebags too, but uh but um but they're But you want people to vote for your judges basically, I mean, like, you know, you know, people and Management and Cinema have voted for every one of the Democratic judges, and so I feel like in this like, oh, like, let's let's

replace that. They might it might as well be a Republican And I'm like, no, it's actually worse of it's a Republican because Management, Cinema vote forever have voted for everyone of Biden's judiciary nominations, and so you know, it's just just something about how power works that Democrats don't quite understand. It's much more about it's much more about I don't know. We're gonna have to change how we think about how power works. I'll support it that way.

I mean, we're going to change how we think about how power works because we ain't never going to get it again. Jonathan. Final thought to you about what is the one thing if you were to say to Democrats about their understanding of the aggrieved white voter, what is the one thing? And I use that in quotations, but what is the one thing that democrats are missing about this voting block that Republicans know and hammer it's weird.

I interviewed a bunch of people last night. I was up all night also, and and a lot of people who I was interviewing, they you would think they were like, oh my god, fifty year fight, we won, let's go celebrate, but they were They were feeling incredibly aggrieved even now. So they were like, oh my god, this league it had to be liberals who were doing this to undermine us.

And this is going to be just another twenty twenty and Black Lives Matter is going to loot and burn and stuff like that, Like there's this constant casting of yourself as the victim, even in a case like this where you won and you're the aggressor, and so the question is how do you how do you combat that? Right? I mean, there's a constant narrative even now that is casting this as we're the victims of this thing that

we just won. And it's NonStop, It's literally NonStop. And so the only way you fight back on that is unfortunately, by taking power, And the only way you take power is by building coalitions. And the only way you build coalitions is by broadening the appeal of what you're doing. And I feel like Democrats have not done that right in other words, we did it like again now like centrist versus progressives right now? Really you really would have

that fight right now? What about like every voter under our tent and stuff like that, And so, I mean, right now we're still in the American democratic political system. That might not be the case going forward, but it's the same answer. Run for school board, run for election officials, Like how where's the massive campaign to have Democrats running for election officials that are going to be like Trump nut jobs and stuff like that. Like that, that's got

to be kind of where you start. Yeah, where you start is where they have been rallying and where they have been organizing for the last five decades. Yeah, and you know, it sucks that Elon must took over Twitter, but like, I don't know, we've spent a lot of time tweeting and not a lot of time running for school board. So that's got to change. Well, I will say that my role is not to run for office. I'm not interested. I'm running for you, for you, and people ask all the time, no, you all go run

for office. Like I have no desire to be in political life. I have desire to be in policy world. Yeah, right, which I have done throughout the entirety of my career. But I'm not going to be beholden to constituents. But there are people out there who need this push to say, you don't got to be a congressman, you don't have to be a city count. You could run for your kids school board, even if you don't have a goddamn kid.

Go run for school board if you care about education, equality and justice, because that's where the front lines are right now. I think it's like the thing it is like I don't have I don't have a kid, like I want to run for school board, and so I mean, that's actually the only thing that I would run for this is a school board. If I were to move back to Long Island. That's the only thing that I

actually would run for because I believe that education actually matters. Yeah, Jonathan, dear friend, thank you so much on this terrible day to make time to join us. The thing. The thing is, um, you know, I guess there's just I mean, there's some point that I'm trying to say here, which is just you know, I do hope it is a turning point. I really do hope it is a turning point. And it's not like everybody has to run for school board. But people have to understand how the political process works.

We have to understand how the political process works, like we need a coherent strategy, which is how we got versus way in the first place. Yeah, appreciate you, and I hope that you'll be back next week, unless you know, we're in some type of political prison somewhere and you know, Tennessee. That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke f as always power to the people and to all the people power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.