Policing Trauma

pre you the listener. But today we have a special two on one conversation with the hosts of the serial podcast Obscured, and I get into conversation with Emily Previty and Stephanie Marudis from Kuvenda Media to discuss the first season of Obscure, which dives into Folks, I'm going to say a phrase that I've never said before, policing trauma, those that have been abused and experienced trauma at the

hands of police. You know, whenever we cover state sanctioned violence police brutality on this show, we are often trying to humanize the person that was and then became a hashtag because of being shot, choked, killed by police officer or white vigilante. We never then go back for those that maybe didn't die, but were emotionally and physically harmed. The effects that that kind of trauma has on larger community and just the questioning of our unjust system as

a whole. And so this series Obscured looks into this issue in their first season, because these are two media veterans that wanted to bring attention and spotlight issues that legacy media leaves behind on the newsroom floor. And so they've done a ton of research and a ton of interviews, and this conversation really brings to light all that we don't know and all of the work that is left

to be done. So that conversation with the hosts and founders of Kuvenda Media, Emily Previty and Stephanie Merude, is coming up next, folks. I am very excited to welcome to OKF Daily for the first time, the creators and hosts behind Obscured by Couvenda Media, a series that dives into underreported complex issues often missed in the daily news cycle.

Their inaugural series, From Words to Weapons, centers on the harrowing tales of law enforcement trauma survivors and the intricate web of challenges, solutions, and hope and resilience that comes along with that. So I am so excited Emily and Stephanie to have the both of you on the show please so that my listeners can get used to your voices. Please introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about your your backgrounds and how you came together in Couvenda Media.

but then got back to radio. I had gotten into journalism initially working for WXPN, which is a music focused radio station in Philadelphia, but worked for the morning new show when I was an undergraduate, and I was working for the Press of Atlantic City covering city hall and casinos when Stephanie and I cross paths initially, but then you know, several years later, each working for NPR affiliates based in Pennsylvania, collaborated with some other journalists on a

long form podcast series called Grapple, and we really hit it off. Felt like our you know, approaches and interests were aligned as far as reporting. Stayed in touch. It's some side projects together, and I joined Stephanie full time at Kuvenda in twenty twenty one to launch Obscured. Awesome.

on my hometown. And then I made the switch to whroy Y in Philadelphia, where we're based, and spent my time as a general assignment reporter, you know, covering education, healthcare, immigration, and just continued to, you know, try to hone the craft as much as possible and got really into oral history on the side and reading about personal accounts and thinking a lot about how public policy impacts our lives flash Forward, went from being a reporter to a producer,

started working on audio documentaries and eventually did another deep dive study into oral history and that really catapulted to that really catapulted me to start Covenda Media as a production company to produce narratives through social change. And as Emily mentioned, we came together on Grapple and uh that was, you know, just an extraordinary experience with a wonderful team, and then insight into the collaboration with Emily and thinking

about how could we do this again? And this is where we are today day.

is where we are needing right. We need more of that in order to understand why policy matters, like why

it matters to your day to day life. So let me let me ask you this, and and Emily if you if you'll kick us off with the response, which is, you know, tell us about Obscured and that first season, because let me tell you that, when I think about all of the names that kind of rattle through my head of unarmed black people, children, women who were killed by police, when I think about those people that would become hashtags that then came from communities, families, you know, schools,

and the loss that kind of is a ripple effect. We don't really ever dig into that kind of trauma and the fact that you even named it as you know, people who were victimized by police police trauma. Just talk to us about that first season and really your why behind it.

first season of Obscured. I was researching an episode for At the Core of Care, which is a podcast that predates my time at Kuvenda with Stephanie, but that she has produced with a nursing advocacy organization for years, and was researching an episode for that about standardizing sexual assault exam procedures. And you know, I came across nurse who was on the schedule for a conference for forensic nurses specific and the title of her presentation was developing a protocol.

I don't remember the exact title off the top of my head, but it was about developing the protocol for caring for people who were survivors of law enforcement trauma, developing a forensic model for doing so. And I asked her about that sort of as a warm up, but then that's where the conversation went, and it was clear to me immediately that her story and her work could be part of, if not the focus, of the first season.

And her name is Maya Anderson. She runs the undergraduate and graduate nursing programs at Morgan State University in Baltimore.

playing jump rope and doing all of these things. So why was it important for you to show that the trauma side.

noticed so many redundancies. You know, you really see the same story kind of over and over again, and uh, you know, your listeners and you and us, you know, we're just consumed in content.

an issue. And I think, as Emily mentioned when she spoke with Maya Anderson, you know, that struck us as, Wow, that's an angle of this topic we've never heard about.

You know, that forensic nurse who has seen people present in the emergency department who need care and they need to have a protocol, uh, you know, and that it's it's controversial, and there's a lot of pushback, you know, around this, and you know, as she lays out in episode seven of our series, and and some of the other nurses who are interviewed, you know, it's this dynamic of calling the police on the police, and that's really hard to do. And so we thought that this is

a story that needs to be told. And to Emily's credit, you know, she spent the last few years digging deep, doing a ton of research, developing sources, you know, really trying to tell this story that's not told and so that fit with our mission of Obscured, and you know, it's it's difficult to report, and you know, Emily, you know, and I would identify some potential sources and you know, try to connect with you know, sources and they might be ready to talk, but then in some cases they weren't.

And we totally get that, and it's a thank you for considering the time. You know, we we we understand. So it took time to develop trust and and sources. And I think in Emily's reporting you can see that we took a trauma informed approach. In our narrative episodes.

that they're guilty, and that is something when the police are making a calculus of whether to pursue someone, whether to arrest someone, whether that's going to be considered justifiable or appropriate in the court of law, running is not a good enough reason, essentially, And basically, you know, I had been talking to a capital defense attorney and she

sort of reminded me that about that case. I noticed that no one had interviewed Jimmy, and end of the articles that I could find, his attorney that handled this case at the appellate level had never met him. And both of those things struck me as highly unusual. None of the stories that I found said even something like, you know, we tried to reach Jimmy and we couldn't or anything like that. And so, you know, it seemed to me that if we could find this person whose

case was, you know, it made a major statement. Basically, of course, it's the state court, so it's not the law of the land, but it certainly did have an impact, as we discovered through further reporting. But you know, I mean, we did talk to Jimmy and he immediately agreed to you know, sit down with me. I went to Boston.

We had a pretty lengthy interview and he's a fantastic storyteller, and you know, was just a great interview, and we felt like one the attention on the case could serve as a good entry point for listeners who follow this issue. They may remember it because it did make national headlines, but then also the nature of the case, it's not rooted in any kind of physical injury. But and as he speaks to in episode one of the From Words Weapons series, just this long term like over policing and

the effects of that. And we hoped that that would establish the ubiquity of law enforcement trauma and the true high relevance of this issue, you know, again looking at it in a way that we don't often see in the news.

prison for a murder he did not commit. And just the fact that there isn't support for people who've been wrongfully convicted in the way that there should be, given the fact that the state, the government has already essentially admitted their error and the harm that it caused by virtue of this person. It's wrongful conviction. So you know,

there's not a lot of support. It's all over the map as far as state by state, Pennsylvania is one of about of a dozen that if you don't go the route of litigation, you aren't compensated for this harm that you suffer. Which why should someone have to go through that again or file a lawsuit? I mean, it should be a choice, right, And so recognizing that most states have an alternate path that's more of an application process and it's all over the map. As I said,

it's very different. There are states. Systems for this are not all created equal. But you know, I would say that I don't know if i'd use the word surprising, but I thought I was certainly outraged to discover that.

you want to get job training. I mean, the list just goes on and on, right and your family, if you know your family was supporting you through this, and you know they may be in debt from trying to pay for attorneys to try to overturn your case, I mean, yeah, it was just kind of shocking, Yeah, to see the effort that people have to go through to be compensated for all of that, and Stephanie.

And so that was also illuminating, besides the whole story, you know, of what happened to Chester Home in the third I would also say in an episode that we released on December twentieth, it is a conversation with a physician who has worked in public health and it's about post incarceration. Excuse me, it's about post incarceration healthcare and

navigating mistrust within the medical system. And uh. Doctor Deva Vencatt is the co founder and co director of an organization in Pittsburgh for people after they've been incarcerated, and you know, she's very candid about what happens, you know, in terms of healthcare for people while they're incarcerated and afterwards, and how they're treated and how they can't get the same access to care and are viewed differently, really without humanity, and that that really just opened my eyes again just

sort of stories that you don't hear and you know she has, you know, that first hand experience, and you know, is part of a group of healthcare professionals who are trying to change that. And they're they're taking a harm reduction approach to care, you know, right after uh people are released, you know, they're they're meeting them right away, you know, trying to say, can we connect you with healthcare?

Because she told us and as we've learned from a nurse navigator who's you know, part of her staff as well, that formerly incarcerated individuals are at higher risk of dying right after release than those first wow.