Persistent Unease

well being. What I am realizing, just within my own friend group and also professional circle, is how many people are having a difficult time right now, including myself. I you know, I was, I was talking to one of my best friends and I said, you know, I'm just not feeling well like I You know, for those of you who know, I broke my toe about two months ago at the beginning of the summer and haven't been able to work out, haven't been able to do any of the things that I really enjoy that helped me

alleviate my stress. Right, and you know, doing this work and being embedded in politics in this type of way is no longer joyful, right, And so being able to find different ways to offset this stress and offset the rage is really important and for me that was working out. So for two months I haven't been able to do that.

And I have noticed that not only has my weight increased, as many people have gained a lot of weight during this time, and that is one of the things that happens with me when I am under a lot of stress, but also just this kind of consistent feeling of this

It's kind of like this fog of dread. And so Jonathan's in our interview today, he talks about the fact that he's being asked a lot from different media outlets to talk about mental health, to right about mental health, and they're asking for specifics like what is the right dosage of this antidepressant versus this antidepressant, and you know,

microdosing and all of these things. And the reality is is that initially when we were having really open conversations about you know, different types of mental health medications was probably around like the mid to late nineties, when you had prozac nation and all of these books and kind of articles and people really for lack of a better term, you know, opening up or coming out of the closet

in a way about talking about mental health. And what I am seeing now, And what Jonathan says in our interview is that it really isn't about a chemical imbalance anymore, right, It is about the stressors of our outside environment, the collapse of our democracy, rights being taken away, the planet being on fire. You know, the stress if you're a parent or a caregiver of sending your child to school and not knowing if they're going to be able to

come home. I mentioned to Jonathan that I was watching television the other day and a back to school commercial comes on. And I can remember throughout the years and back to school commercials that would come on, even though I'm well removed from back to school time. It was always like a joyous time. Let's get new notebooks, let's get new pens and pencils. And the first thought that came to my mind as I was watching this commercial

was a mass shooting. Because the school year ended with Uvaldi, right, And so I can't imagine thinking that just in a handful of weeks, you're going to be sending your kid back to school across the country and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if they're in a rural area, it doesn't matter if they're in a suburban area, doesn't matter if they're in a city, right that they're just not safe.

We're not safe anywhere. And what does that feeling of persistent unease due to our bodies, to our brains and Jonathan will you know, talk about the fact that there are times and we're living in them, we're outside. Stressors do create a chemical imbalance, do really disrupt our mental state, our emotional well being and the ability to be able to deal with all of these stressors at one time.

And so I do think that it is important for us, you know, right now, friends to be in deep community with other people, right to really you know, seek out, whether it is the help and assistance of a medical professional likeotherapist, like a psychiatrist, or you know, to really reach out to your friends, to your family, to really be in regular communication and contact so that you know

that you're not alone. And you know, I took a couple of days to come and visit my really close friends and you know, just to be outside, to be in nature, to just have a break. And I can't tell you how important it is for me to be able to do that. And I know, again it is a privilege, right, It is a privilege to be able to say, well, I work from home, I can pick up and I can go and just take a break,

have a change of scenery. But I think that we're going to need to be incredibly proactive these days about articulating what it is that we need and then going after it. So if you need to take a mental health day right from work, if you need to just stay on the couch or stay in bed, I want us to be able to do that and detach ourselves from the guilt that we should be doing like we should be doing better, or I should be stronger, I

should be this, and I should be that. And I'll go and say one of my favorite lines from Sex in the City, not the remake, but the old versions that I actually liked. You end up shooting all over yourself right about all the things that you should be doing, And there is no should in this moment, Like it's so fucking overwhelming everywhere that you look. You know, it was enough for us to be able to deal with

and try and wrap our minds around fucking COVID. And now you have monkey pocks right where Jonathan is going to tell us, by the way that it's going to get worse, and that it's not an airborne disease, and it's not one that is only going to be targeting one community right in the way that it was initially thought.

It isn't. And so when you're dealing with all of these things and you're just on this emotional roller coaster, I think that it is really important to tap in to strengthening the networks that you have around you, strengthening your friendships, your familiar relationships, checking in on people, asking people to check in on you. Hey, you know, there are some days where I just want to be insular and I'm just going to you know, dive into a book or dive into a show, and I just need

to detach. But if you don't hear from me for you know, a day or two, please do drop me a text, Please do drop by my place, Please do give me a call. I think that we all need to start to set up for ourselves what our mental and emotional care looks like, and then let our community in on what that care is. Right. You know, I know that a lot of us, you know, don't want

to put our needs on other people. But if we're not looking to those that love us and care about us to help bolster us in this time and us to be able to do the same for them. We're not going to make it. We're just not. And so I want to encourage you, you know, this week, as we move through this week and there's so much going on as per usual, to really think about what are the mental and emotional tools that you are using. Who are you going to, what is your tribe, what does

your community look like? You know, who are you checking in on? Who are you asking to check in on you? Because I think that we need to be more intentional about how we are moving so that we don't fall through the cracks, right And if you do need more aid in terms of medication, then please make sure that you are visiting a psychiatrist, visiting a doctor and talking through, you know, the feelings that you have so that you

can get the best treatment that you can. And I just you know, I will leave you all with saying that we're all living through difficult times. It's unprecedented and we don't know the best way and we're kind of stumbling through. And so in the comment section, if you have found something that works for you and you want to offer that, you know, up. Please do I know that a lot of you have taken on plant babies like I have, or adopted animals, or you know, are

volunteering or doing something that makes you feel connected. If you're doing something that is working for you right now, please do drop it in the comments section and maybe you can help. You know somebody that is silently struggling, but will look, you know and say maybe I should try that. We need to give ourselves grace. We need to give those around us grace because we're not going

to make it otherwise. Coming up next, my conversation with our friends and our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Get a behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show. Beyond the Scenes, an original podcast from The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the notable guests and experts from the Emmy Award winning series. Together, they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to gun laws and take

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and streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Folks, you know that whenever we have the opportunity to speak with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, we get to talk about a range of things, our emotional well being, monkey pots, COVID, you know, all of the things that are giving us

anxiety these days. Jonathan, I want to start out today with the World Health Organization's designation around monkey pox and if you can break down some of the misconceptions, right because I think that initially, much in the same way that political parties didn't care about HIV and AIDS because it was predominantly in the gay mail community at that time, they kind of just set up, we don't need to

really have conversations about this, it's not harming everybody else. Well, the who came out and said, actually, it isn't just in the gay mail community. Now we have two children that have contracted monkey pos as of the time that this is recording eight women and there are sixteen thousand

cases around the world. So I want you to tell us your understanding of these designations, not necessarily understanding the deep dive into monkeypox, but like why certain things and this is only the third disease to get this designation outside of polio and COVID. We live in the worst time. I mean, like we we live in a time where like so I'm just having wonderful fast flax to our conversations about the beginning of COVID and everything else like that,

where it's like people aren't taking this thing seriously. It's real and uh, and it's just it just feels like, I don't know, I'm sure other ages have end of days kind of feeling, but it does kind of feel like how many different major ass threats can we deal with at one time? And this is going to be another one. This is unfortunately going to be another one. Now, First of all, change the damn name. I don't want to have to say monkeypox everydy, Like it's just embarrassing

enough to say monkeypox. So I think part of the issue of keeping it seriously is like call it like the killer tomatoes or something else. But I just think that they put the wrong name on this thing for people to take it seriously. That being said, I thought, actually, Jason, who's filling in form do I read, did a great segment on this last night, and his point was basically, so what is monkeypox. Well, monkeypox is it causes lesions all of your body, tons of pain, different systemic effects

in other locals. It could potentially be fatal, particularly for people who are immunocompromised. It's really painful, it's really obvious. It's not like a kind of thing of like, oh, it's just like the flu. You're not going to have like red inflame vesicles all over your face and tell people, oh,

it's just like the flu. And so part of the issue here is that as this thing starts to spread, there's going to be a lot of panic because, as Jason and other people were pointing out last night, um, it's it's quite it's quite visual, right, and so it's not like you can say, oh, this thing is fake

or anything like that. And so if this thing does start to spread, we're looking at just go watch a movie about like the Middle Ages or something like that about like you know who, you don't want to date in the Middle Ages or something, it was the people with like the pustules and the vesicles and all that kind of stuff, And so what do we know so far? Now that that's my that's my preamble. And I didn't mean to laugh. It's serious. It's serious. It's just like, no,

it's but it's just so But I get it. It's just so U like, you're not laughing at the you're not laughing at the illness. It's just the absurdity of how many friggin things are we going to have to talk about, how many viruses, how many issues, like in one lifespan of two years, are we going to have to go through? So I get it, and let me let me give you another aside while we're assiding. Today

today is a side Wednesday. But I've been getting tons of calls from media about mental health stuff, which I haven't gotten in years, and so I got a call from Forbes yesterday to do a piece. I'm doing another piece with Showtime about all this kind of thing, and everybody, all these interviews are asking what's the right antidepressant for people to be on, how should they know when to change antidepressant? Blah, blah blah, like as if like we're

living in the nineties or something. This interview or yesterday was saying like what's the right dose and stuff like that, and I'm like, I just kept saying, I understand why people are depressed right now, Like there's so much anxiety that in a way it's important to get help, to go to therapy, to get medication. But there's also just a lot of despair in the air right now because all these things just keep I mean, planetary destruction, end

of democracy, monkey pox, you know, COVID, everything else. It just feels like it's all happening one time. And so in a way, I kept wanting to say, I'm happy to do these interviews, but there's just so which despair in the air right now that acknowledging that we might also be having a normal response to like a really

stressful moment I think, is okay. Also, yeah, I'm sorry, you know, no, no no, no, no. But the thing is, you know, I actually was having this conversation with another friend of mine yesterday because we were all sitting at brunch right this is over the weekend, and saying, you know, we're talking about I was talking about the rise in how many people are on medication for mental distress right whether it is you're taking add a roll because you

can't focus, whether you're taking you know, pack sale because you have this, whether you know, whatever it is. And so we were all sitting around and saying, are you on medication? Are you on medication? And right now none of us were, And we're like, we're an anomaly, right, Like we're an anomaly of people who are currently you know, I'm in therapy, have been for years. I didn't just

start because of you know, because of the pandemic. But it's just this idea that I think that everybody is going to be medicated in some way, shape or form. Microdosing is a is a term that we weren't really talking about five years ago, and it's now in everyday conversation.

And so, you know, I am happy that outlets are calling you to say, can you talk to us about mental health, But then at the same time really concern about what kind of you know, generations are we setting up with people that require so much assistance to be able to get through their day to day. And the thing, the funny thing was, so I'll just say that it'll

come out today. But the Four's piece. The reason they contacted me was because one of the they just they write a lot of articles about what are the most searched terms on the internet, and like the top five for the past week is how do I switch antidepressants? That's like what top five of what people are searching for in this country. And I thought, you know, that's

really interesting. What does that tell us? And she kept wanting me to say like, oh, you know, don't take twenty, take forty and stuff like that, which I was happy to do. And you know, I was actually thinking maybe I should go back and get my psychiatry license again to start practicing again. There's so much need. But I would also say, like the fact that people so many people are thinking like should I switch anti precedence, it's just it's just like medications aren't good enough right now,

Like you need a village, right yeah. And so part of the issue is what I kept telling her, even though they did this isn't what they wanted to hear. Is the reason I think a lot of people are thinking should I switch medications is because there's a lot of despair. And it's not just because there's a chemical

imbalance in their brain. It's because people are living among a lot of stress about all of these existential threats, including monkey pox and so and so I just think that in a way, I just think we need to acknowledge that, like there's no there's we can't even mourn like the COVID desk because they keep happening and there's

another crisis every day. And that was kind of what I thought was, you could, we could, we should uhould be on the right medication, but you could switch medication until two weeks from Tuesday, and it still wouldn't change the fact that there's just so much external stress. It's almost like a you know, Durkheim that you used to talk about anomic stress, like the fact that like the world is collapsing that people felt around World War two,

and it's almost like we're in that era. And so I feel like psychiatric drugs are made for nineteen nineties level stress. So either we need better drugs or we need to fix some of our social and political problems. You know. But it's I think what you just said is is really interesting. So I want to stay there for a moment, which is that initially when you're going on medication, right, you just said it is about a

chemical imbalance, right it it's about your serotonin levels. It's about you know, being able to regulate and have some I'm assuming some type of neutrality or you know, or at least a little bit of a bump in terms of um your your serotonin levels. But that's not the case right now, like you're saying, it's it's external factors. It's not to say that there's still a significant amount of people that are on medication because of a chemical imbalance.

But Jonathan, when it's not a chemical imbalance, right when you're saying, like, you know, I was looking at a report from express Scripts, who does you know, the pharmaceutical company that you know, kind of keeps tabs on how many prescriptions are are going out in the country. They said forty there's a forty two percent increase of kids between the ages of thirteen and nineteen. There is, you know, a forty percent increase between you know, those that are

you know, in their thirties and forties. And so when it isn't, when it isn't about internal imbalance, it's like, you're right, how how are you? How how would a doctor?

How would a psychiatrist then evaluate what it is that you need if it isn't about your own internal you know, navigator, and and just to complicate that a little more, because I think that's exactly that's exactly the point, right, Um, external factors can cause internal chemical imbalances, right, I mean I don't really often use the term chemical imbalance because it was made up by a marketing company, but I would say that external factors. But that's fine, it's very useful.

It was a good phrase. But I would say that external factors um create chemical imbalances in your brain. Right, It's not like there's just either it's internal external, Like there's always a relationship between external and internal world. And so again I do think people should get medication if they need it, And again I think we need much better medication to deal with the shit we're dealing with

right now. But I would also say that there there's it's also like an important time for community and community support and re ignizing that Like I'm not going to

call it depression. If you're worried about sending your kid to school because of a mass shooting, for example, like that's a that's a reasonable response, Like anxiety is actually a normal response in that, you know, And so the answer is also maybe political engagement or hope or all these things we kind of feel like we can't have right now about thinking about, gosh, how can we make the world better and safer for us as opposed to UM,

as opposed to not. And so the question I've been kind of running in the back of my mind is like, once the met gate side feels like they're winning, right, more guns, no abortions, you can be sexistent public and you know, all these kind of things. So I would be it would be interesting to see if they're feeling depression now. Also, you know, in other words, is it your friends? And why would they because they're because they're the ones winning the world's there's monkey box for everybody.

There's climate change for everybody, whether you acknowledge it or not.

But I don't know. I guess the is this The other question I had about this changing antidepressants thing, was was it that just me and you and the people we know and the people in our circle, if I went to the middle of the Panhandle or Arkansas or something like that, would people would feel feel euphoric and uplifted and stuff like that, and so I don't know the answer to that is, are we also feeling like political despair because our side is not doing very well

and the issues we care about are not doing well. So it's just I think a mental all This is very complicated, it's very relative, it's very political, But I don't think it's an abnormal response right now. You know, that's a really interesting question because I would say this right I was watching like a clip of one of the right wing you know, rallies, and obviously you go to these places all the time and you talk to these folks, but I would argue that they aren't feeling

more at ease. The more they actually win, the more unsettled and angry they become. It actually doesn't make any rational sense to me. But what I have what I'm watching is like I'm seeing you're getting all of the things that you've ever wanted, and somehow you still feel

like you're under attack. Somehow there's this sense of like, you know, deep knees, and they're still coming to take my guns, even though you are able to get a gun, like you know, as easy as you are a slurpee, Like they're coming to take X Y and Z. And you have Marjorie Taylor Green talking about Christian nationalism like the Nazi she is. And you know, and yet these people seem more unsettled and more unhinged. So what do you what do you make of that? Well, it'll be

interesting to see what I mean. It's it's almost like a kind of OCD that like, no matter what the stressor is, it's we're under attacked by liberals and reframing everything is like we can't say what we want, we can't have our tradition, we can't have our country. And so it's a state of constant resentment and and and and it's powerful. I mean, as I showed in my book, you could be dying and still still be blaming other people. Um,

and so I don't know. I guess, you know, I hadn't really thought about it until our conversation today, But I guess what's the mental health of that? Right? In other words, do people across the board this is a total generalization. Do they feel you for it because their owning libs? Is that? Is that a kind of euphoria? Is the is the masochism of always feeling like you're the victim? Does that? Does that create your own mental health, Like what is mental health? What is mental health in

the context of that version of Bread America? And I don't know, God, what an interesting research question, right, um, because because you know, in a way, your mental health is dependent on continually casting yourself as the victim and being under attack. And does that make you you know, misery is happiness or something. But at the same time, like you kind of can't and I that there is monkey box, but we'll talk about a sec here or climate change, like, you know, it doesn't really matter what

your view is. Those things are happening and so and mas and mass shootings, right like, all everybody is still sending going to be sending their kids to school come you know, the end of August and September, and you know,

funny enough, not funny. But I'm was watching you know, a TV yesterday and I'm seeing the beginnings of the back to school commercials, and Jonathan, the only thing that I see is like you have this you know corporation, and this corporation like, oh, sending the kids back to school. All I kept thinking about was mass shootings, right Like, I don't even look at these you know commercials that are trying to sell people backpacks and pencils to their kids.

All I keep thinking about is, oh my god, like they have to go back to school soon. The only reprieve that you have from thinking that your kid isn't going to be shot up is like the fact that it's summer break, but you could still take them to a parade or the grocery store, and that's still be the case. So regardless of whether you're in the reddest of red states or you're in you know, the bluest of blue suburbs or cities, like, you still have the

same level of fear here. Right. It's just that it's just like, what's your narrative around that fear? I think it's kind of the issue, right, So, I mean, I know before, like I was interviewing people who were losing family members to gun suicide, and their salvation was like getting more guns, which makes zero sense to me or you or probably anybody listening here, but for these guys, it was kind of like any threat, the answer was more guns, and so getting more guns was kind of

how they how they tell with it. And so we say go get therapy and like microns and they're like, let me buy another a R fifteen and that'll make me feel safe. I mean, I follow a lot of very conservative people, and I talked to a lot of very conservaive people, and every time there's a mess shooting, they're like, and this is proof that everyone needs to carry a gun and knows how to use it, Like

that's the answer to every single thing. Um. And the fact that there are places that they've never been that they can't carry their guns they find to be like an affront to their whiteness and stuff and so um. But again that side is winning because it's a very developed, um political I don't, I don't like. I'm like, I don't, I don't even know. Um, let's go let's go back to um to monkey pox for a second and the context Yeah okay, yeah yeah, so okay, so monkey pox,

so basically monkey pocks. The frustrating thing is there there has been some version you know, we eradicated smallpox as a society. There's been some version of something like monkey

pox circulating around Africa for quite some time. Um, but it didn't like come over here, and we had all the means to defend ourselves and blah blah blah bla and all of a sudden, there's a version of monkeypox that is not playing by the same colonial rules, and it's spreading, and it's spreading more than we even know. It's spreading through unprotected gay sex. Is as you were saying,

was the first version. But the problem is, social designations don't really matter to monkeypox or viruses, you know, treatments like that, illnesses like that. So it turns out, how can you get monkeypox where you get it from close skin contact? You get it from if it's true like smallpox surfaces that have not been clean because smallpox could like live on surfaces for you know, seventy five reruns of The Golden Girls, and you get it from animals.

Animals were also reservoirs, And so in a way, if it's following the same rules roughly as smallpox, then this thing is not just going to be a gay people's disease within like four minutes ago. And so the problem is, and this is really different from COVID. There is a massive, massive, massive short shortage of treatment. There's only one company that makes the vaccine. It's Bavarian Nordic something they you know, New York has seventeen thousand doses that we're gone in

twenty one minutes. And so the difference is if you think about COVID, I mean, beside the difference of the illness itself. With COVID, it was like there's vaccine for everybody, everybody, please get the vaccine. But that's not what we're going to see with monkeypox. I'll tell you right now. Monkeypox, there's going to be like a war for the vaccine, like there's nowhere near enough vaccine. And so it's the

exact opposite. It's the austerity narrative of the treatment. And so as this thing starts to spread and people start to kind of see the impact and people might see it in their social circles, there's just going to be a lot of anxiety. And I'm just predicting it's going to be the said of the COVID narrative, where actually people are going to be fighting for the vaccine because treatment aside, it's just it's an austerity narrative. Now, what can people do? UM will certainly be careful right now

because we don't know how much of this stuff's around. UM, wash your hands a lot, clean your hands a lot. UM, don't go to a bathhouse, um don't um, you know. And it's funny because like I'm not saying anything about sexuality, Like I love the bathhouse and Williamsburg. And after I got COVID, literally I it too. Yeah, me too. Know, it's super fun. It's like it's like all these fun saunas and parties and hot tubs and everybody just kind

of hangs out. Don't do that because now it just sounds like And the thing is, I was excited after I got COVID. I'm like, Okay, let's go to the bathhouse because they've read this cool dinner party. And now I'm like, nah, I'm not going to do that. But but I would just say be wary because actually, remember we remember when we were careful of like wearing riever gloves and washing our hands for this kind of thing.

That's what you want to do. Also because it's it's spread through contact and so it's not airborne, so just be careful about surfaces. And I would bet there's going to be a lot more information about about this coming out. But the problem again is there's a massive short shortage of vaccines and anti viral medication, and so it's going to be more like the Hunger Games than it was, like, you know the thing and I remember we said it

on this show. If there was only enough COVID vaccine for half the people, all these white people would have been like killing people for the vaccine. So it wasn't about the treatment. It was about the fact that everybody could get it, including people who were not white. But in this case, that's not going to be the case, and so at least for a very long time, and so in a way that we're going to see the opposite social phenomenon as we did with COVID. That's my prediction.

I mean, is this do you think, Jonathan, that this is going to end up being something one where a couple of months from now, we'll be like, remember when we said there were only three thousand cases in the United States, and now there's three hundred thousand cases in the United States. Is this going to be something that like the Biden administration is going to have to think about, you know, instituting the Production Act in order for us to be able to get more vaccine. Yep, yep, yep.

I mean the thing is, so we're going to need to get more vaccines somehow, and the vaccine treats it, right, So it's not like we don't we have a treatment. It's just because we didn't really give a hoot about this. Only one company makes it, and it's like mom and pop and grandma and so and so we're going to need to change that as quickly as we can. But that takes a long time, right to just make a vaccine.

You can't just you know, flip a switch. Yeah, you can't just dy it, you know, like you actually have to do it. And so it takes a long time to make that production. And then companies are probably going to wonder, are like, oh I got burned by COVID, you know, because like vaccine company stock went way up and then they went way down. Um so so there's a lot of reasons why it's not just like making

a lot more vaccine. It's going to be complicated. But but I would say you're right that we are going to see a lot more cases and people are going to get quite nervous. But again the reminder, this is not an airborne illness, right, This is not an airborne illness. This is a surface illness. So it's a totally different mode of transmission than covid uh, and so the things people do to stay safe are going to be are

going to be different. Unfortunately, it's about touch touching things, you know, that kind of thing, Oh, Jonathan, another uplifting conversation. I mean coble we cover the wee. Yeah, just like monkey boxes. Uh. Donam as always, we deeply appreciate you and pray to God that the next time that we talk next week, that there won't be yet another virus

for us to be talking about. And if we are talking about this, just call it something else so we don't have to say the word monkeypox for the next year, like MP yeah, something like yeah, the rambo virus, I don't really care, or just something else. Oh, Dear God, we appreciate you. Indisputable with Doctor Rashad Ricci is one of the latest shows on the TYT network and also

the fastest growing news show in America. On his show, Doctor Ricci plays no games regarding policy, delivering a heavy dose of fact based truth and penetrating analysis on all the top news stories focusing on racism, criminal and social justice, politics, police brutality, Karens and much more. Listeners can also expect interviews with fascinating guests, political leaders, commentators, and even fiery debates with conservatives on a wide range of policy topics.

In the Bullpen, it is an indisputable fact that you will love this show. Listen to Indisputable with Doctor rashad Ricci on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss a new episode. That is it for me today, Friends, as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck. Get a behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes, an

original podcast from The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the notable guests and experts from the Emmy Award winning series. Together, they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to gun laws and take a closer look at how and why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from The Daily Show with Trevor Noa on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes every Tuesday,