Patriarchal Forces

And you know, during this Pride Month where we on woke f or celebrating Pride as a riot, talking with activists, leaders and just folks about how we are comprehending this moment of a considerable backslide in acceptance in this country, not just for LGBTQ people in general, but for trans people specifically. And in my conversation with Amra, what she offered for me, which was very eye opening, is that she said, Danielle, it isn't just over three hundred anti

LGBTQ bills that we're seeing across the country. It is specifically anti trans bills criminalizing trans people in some places, disallowing them from being able to access healthcare until the age of twenty one, targeting trans youth right and their families for helping them to get the kind of medical care that they need in order to live full and

complete lives. And you know, I've been thinking about this a lot, and what is the impetus behind this evil that we are seeing, which you know, in some ways what is happening in America feels like you're watching a horror movie from the outside right and then recognizing that no, no, this doesn't change. She doesn't go away after two hours. That feeling of anxiety of fear sticks with us. And

what is at the core of it. It is the fact that white supremacy is also steeped in patriarchy, and those two things in combination with themselves at its core or about control. It is about control and it is about oppression. When we talk about patriarchy, we could talk about control of women and people who occupy those female bodies and how sis men in particular are threatened right by women who are powerful. And what do I mean by powerful, I mean understand their power, their worth right.

What always gets me, you know, when I talk about the fifty two and fifty six percent of white women that voted for Donald Trump, what gets me about it is their own submission to white siss hetero men and the belief that they don't have power and that the righted order of things, as is their interpretation of the Bible is that men are the heads of households, and men are the ones with these guns that are saying, we're protecting our families, you're protecting your very fragile egos.

But what is the connection between the assault on trans identity and that of everything else we're seeing unfold Well, Amar and I will get into this conversation, but it is trans people represent the absolute truth, the truth that no one else gets to define you for you, right, no one else gets to assume place their beliefs on

your body, on your spirit, on yourself. And so by virtue of trans people living right, their lives out loud, unapologetically and dare demanding for equity and justice, They as people pose an absolute affront to the white supremist patriarchal structure right, because in that structure they are telling you who matters, where you can be, what you can do, how they can control your body, how they can control your lives, your money, your existence, all of these things.

And trans people who are so courageous in and of themselves because they push back against gendered stereotypes, against the idea that we occupy a binary place, and they represent expansion right, allowing and not even allowing. Allowing is not the right word, but demanding of us to really think about what we know to be true and whose truth that is. We are taught from birth, from birth about gender. You know, it used to be the pink newborn outfit

and the blue newborn outfit. You walk down and I use this all the time, and maybe it's changed over the years, but I would go into targets and walmarts, and not walmarts because you know my politics, but targetate that better. But go into these places to go and buy toys for kids, and it's like, you can't just

buy a fucking toy. You got the blue toys over here with the primary colors which are supposed to be for boys, with the trucks and the science and this, that and the other thing, and then you have even the fucking legos were turned into pink and pastels for girls. You're supposed to be this way, You're supposed to be this way. We create these lines and the question is

why for whose benefit? Right? And the thing that I keep like pondering as we are just seeing the world be turned upside down is who was this supposed to help right? These gendered forces, this binary Who is this created for and it was created for men, for six gendered hetero white men, to remain on top of every food chain, of every pyramid of everything, to perpetuate the lie right that women are weak, to perpetuate the lie that there are only two genders, to perpetuate control in

our society and to hold that control. And so the reason why these very fragile white sis men hate trans people so very much is because they refuse to comply with the bullshit we have all been fed and instead choose to live their lives and their truth. So how is it that if somebody is telling you this is who I am and to respect that your audacity, your response would be no, you don't deserve to exist in the way that you choose to exist. Just think about

how fucking insane of a thought that is. Like when somebody says to me or hear people say, you know, I don't get the trans thing. I don't understand, and I'm using air quotes I don't understand. It's just like, what is it that is so hard for you to understand? Everyone's existence isn't made for your comfort, and the only thing that you have to understand is what the fuck is coming out of somebody else's mouth when they say who they are and how to treat them, and fucking

model that for you. The only thing that you should be doing is saying, Okay, I got it. I don't understand why it's so difficult to treat people with respect and dignity. But what I realize for Republicans, for these white evangelical Christians, is that they don't dignify anybody's existence but their own, not even that of their fucking you know,

straight white cis head or wives. They don't respect them, their choices, their ability to control their own bodies, their minds, curriculum because it's a majority of white women that are teaching kids in the classrooms. So we don't choose you, We don't trust you to be able to know what's right for your own students, but we're certainly going to give you a gun these days in these states and

say go off, be a warrior. But at the same time, you're a week I just like I feel insane when you unpack all of the fucking mixed messages that are presented. And so in the conversation that I have with a Mara today, we get into a lot of things and also talk about our democracy and the illusion of safety.

So I hope that you enjoy this conversation. Coming up next, let me know in the comment section what you think about the myriad of anti trans bills and if you're paying attention to them, and if not, why aren't you paying attention to them, because let me tell you something that that is It is this community that is the low hanging fruit, but they come in for everybody else as well. So coming up next my conversation with Amara

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I am very happy to welcome back to woke a f for another wonderful conversation. I'm sure. Amara Jones, who is the host of trans Lash, a podcast that is dedicated to talking about issues that are facing the trans community. Happy Pride to you. We start We'll start with so we'll start with something good, which is happy pride? Amara, What does what does pride mean to you now? In the kind of climate that we're in. Pride began as a riot, it moved into kind of a capitalist celebration

of stuff. And now we're at a time when we are having to fight for our lives in our existence again. So what does pride mean to you this year? Well, I always tell people, actually give the same answer every year, which is that pride is actually a renewal of vows, and it is a renewal of our essential first vows to be able to create space for ourselves first and foremost, and then by doing so, to create other spaces for

other people throughout society. And it's a fundamental commitment to a world in which people get to live out their lives without oppression and with the support that they need in order to thrive. I mean, that is the essential rationale, basis the fundamental bedrock of pride. And so I think that every year we remind ourselves, we recommit ourselves, which is why I call it a renewal vows. And of course it's like the people who were at Stonewall, we

don't do so without joy. Joy is a tactic. Celebration is a tactic, and so around that it makes sense that the people who started the riot were also fundamental in terms of finding I'm sorry founding pride parades, which we're meant to do that and to commemorate the original riot with a celebration. And so we're meant to celebrate, We're meant to have a good time, we are meant to connect, we are meant to form community. But it is also our duty to remember. And as I say,

to renew our vows, I love that. I love the idea of renewing vows. I love the idea of recognizing that, you know, joy is incredibly important, and I think that you know, I oftentimes get caught up in the rage right because moments, the times that we are living in are so rage inducing, right there is so much harm that is being done. But the importance of being able to celebrate one another, celebrate who we are, how we

show up, I think is also important. Right now, there are hundreds hundreds of anti lgbt Q bills across the country. Most of them are targeting specifically our trans youth. What how do we as a community process where we are right now and how much backsliding is happening in terms of the respect and the acceptance of our community. Well, I think a couple of things I want to be very clear about nomenclature. There are three hundred anti trans

bills in this country. Of course, there are important things such as don't say gay and the way that that's being replicated across the country, but I do not want to erase the fact that this is essentially an anti trans attack. And there are three hundred bills, mostly targeting trans youth, but some of them sweep up trans adults, saying that trans adults. Some of the proposed bills don't want to allow trans people to be able to have

equal access to medical care until they're twenty one. So I think that we want to be very clear that this is a broad ranged attack, of course centered on trans youth, but at the core of that are three hundred anti trans bills. And you know, me and my entire team at trans Lash actually have spent the last

several years investigating what's behind these bills. We learned so much that the only way that we could tell people about it was to be a separate podcast, which is called the Anti Transhate Machine, A Plot against Equality, which is now going to roll out in its second season in October. And we looked at the money, the people, the organizations, the politicians, the nonprofit groups that are fueling

this anti trans backlash. And I think that one of the most important things about this particular moment, that's really essential for us to realize is that it's not an accident. This is the result of a very well crafted plan that conservatives and specifically the Christian nationalist movement have had for the past ten years. And they have put not only time, but hundreds of millions of dollars behind this

specific effort. And so what I tell people is, if you are waking up on books fuck to the fact that these bills exist, you're already ten years and a couple hundred million dollars behind the right, you're late. And the thing about it is that they put so much energy that they've been able to scale this up in

a short amount of time. So there were a handful of anti trans bills in twenty nineteen, maybe at anywhere between a half dozen and a dozen that then moved to one hundred and ninety eight last year to three hundred this year. And the state legislative session isn't out of session yet. Across the country, the state legislatures aren't and you don't get from six to three hundred and

three years because there's something that's natural and organic. And I think that one of the things that we have to understand is that this anti trans attack that the right is executing is very much a part of their salt on democracy and an assault on a vision of

America that they believe is fundamentally anathema. And so for them, the reason why they put this time and this money behind this effort is because for them, anti trans bills, anti abortion bills, critical race theory, and voting rights are all equally important. They see them as a unified way to cleave and to destroy this vision of America that

they don't want. And I think that one of the things that progressives know, and you know this because you've worked in democratic politics and pressive circles for so long, is that they tend to still be white insists centered, and so they tend to think that issues such as trans are marginal and that will eventually get to them whenever we get to everything If yes, exactly, when we get through everything else, maybe we'll circle back. But what the right wing does is the exact opposite. For them,

this is not a marginal issue. It's a central issue in their fight to take and to destroy that vision of America. We can get into the mechanics of how they're doing that and how it ties into voting rights, because it's very much linked. But I think that we have to understand that. And so while the left and progressive talk intersectionally, the right fights intersectionally. That is to say, they see the link between trans issues and gender issues

specifically abortion, and race and voting rights. For them, they see it as a unified ecosystem that has to be dealt with and pressed upon at the same time, whereas progressives are not thinking that way, which is why right now, when it comes to trans issues and even some others, they're winning. The momentum is on their side right now. You know, I love what you just said about the fact that Republicans created an ecosystem, right and they are

funding that ecosystem. And I've been saying for so friggin long that Democrats do not have coordination. They look at the White House as it as if it is like the Holy Grail, and look at nothing else. Meanwhile, Republicans literally do the opposite, which is looking at everything else.

What can we hack away at? Right? And now they're going back to this place where they're making this about children, right and saying that we are groomers for wanting to allow young people to have the medical care that they need in order to live full and complete lives. And so, what what is it that the Democratic Party needs to do in order to recognize that this isn't just a

circle back and we'll come deal with you later. Well, the funny thing when you study the right, I spent a lot of time looking at how they operate mechanically, is that they're not invested in the Republican Party. They see the Republican Party as a means to an end, and they make it very clear that they are willing to support the Republican Party, or take over the Republican Party, or undermine the Republican Party. Whatever they have to do in order to execute their vision of America is what

they're doing. Which is why we've seen before our very eyes the Republican Party literally become a tool. You know, everyone's asking, well, what happened to the Republican Party and what happened to these values and what happened to the things that it stood for. It's been transformed into a tool of the Christian nationalists and the and the and

the right wing of it. And so I think that we have to start stop thinking about these parties as the embodiment of values, and rather what they're becoming and specifically have become on the right and far right is and as are a means to an end. And the problem is that the Democratic Coalition writ large, let's just say that is still playing politics according to these old rules where the party is the embodiment and all of

these things, and we're not there anymore. And I think that one of the things that people who are values aligned on the left or progressives have to think about is what has to happen in order to advance values and to counteract this movement on the right, because the Democratic Party as an institution is still buy and large playing for in an American political system that is quickly disintegrating.

You know, there's the middle is quickly leaving, the ability to compromise are fading, and so the values and the ideas that the party is trying to hold onto with the in regards to the way that it works in Washington, not what's in the platform, of course, but the way that it works in Washington. Right, the trade offs, the eventually ability to get to the deals, letting this go so that you can get this other thing. That essential form of politics is becoming a thing of the past.

And so I think that what we're looking at in the Republican Party maybe the where politics is going, where the party is actually a tool for a set of interests that are trying to advance themselves throughout the country, rather than the repository of values, which the Democratic Party still is. So we have two very different visions right now. I mean, we have so many different visions right now.

You know, you brought up voting right, and the fact the coordinated attack with regard to the anti trans bills, the anti you know vote, the voter suppression bills, the fight with CRT, and then the conversation with rumors at all of these things. What the Democrats continue to say is, Oh, we just need to vote, We need to vote, We need to vote, we need to vote. And I'm saying, so where right, And I'm am I still voting for

the same person. That is marginal right, because you all don't want to run any new candidates, because you don't want to actually build a pipeline. You want to keep people in Congress for thirty forty fifty years, so that we can have the same conversations. What do you what is your pushback to the constant refrain of we need to just vote, We just we just need to get out there and vote. When we do, it's in historic numbers, and yet things are continually backsliding. You know. I think

that it's it's again, it's this separation of interest. What I mean by that is people need to vote. And throughout our long history as black people in this country, we've understood that what we are doing is trying to minimize the harm that the political process does to us, and that voting is a tool to do that. Right. So, by and large, for African Americans, for most of our history in this country, since we've been able to allowed to vote, voting is a defensive play. So I think

that we need to think differently about voting. As marginalized people. We vote in order we do vote in order to stop things from getting worse. Right, that's the voting, that's the voting part. But in my heart, I'm like, is it are we stopping it from getting worse? Well, here's the thing. I mean, that's a really good point so we'll come to that because it's related to the other

things that we've touched upon. So I think when we vote to stop things from getting worse, I think too, it means that we put just as much energy into figuring out and mobilizing people outside of the political process, because that's where the pressure on the political process to actually change will come from, if that makes any sense. Right. So, because what's on the right, what they've done is they went out and they organized and identified what they call

our super voters. And the super voters, on their part, are overwhelmingly we're white mail voters who once you activate them, will vote. I think the number is ninety three percent of elections, right, and they vote in elections that federal election, not state elections, not just local. They every election that's

coming up. Those people get to the polls and they have figured out that those people you know, have certain views on race, have certain views on gender, have certain views on gender identity, has certain views on immigration, and they figured out an agenda to superserve those super voters.

Now they're they're not the majority, they may be twenty percent in the population, but because they vote in such extreme numbers, they're able to actually force multiply their numbers, which is how that small number of people can have such an outsize impact on our political process because they

have figured out how to do that. And so then what that ecosystem of organizations on the right does is they then turn to the Republican Party and they say, we've got these voters, and here's what they care about, and here's their agenda, and here's how often we can get them to come to the polls. Now, do y'all want them or not? And if y'all want them, you have to start then saying and doing the things that they want and that we want to get them to

the polls. So they organize outside of the political process and then turn to the political process and says, is

this what you want? And so I think that similarly there has to be thinking about this defensive play through the political process, and then there has to be a lot of energy and thought about how to organize, similarly on the left and progressive circles to make that same offer on the Democratic Party, because that's the only way that you're going to get a fundamentally different view of politics and how you stop things from getting worse, because

you know, that's that's the tie in. And I think that until we figure out how to mobilize in that way, until we figure out how to get fifteen twenty twenty five thirty percent of the population of progressives to show up in nine out of ten elections, then there's gonna

be this mismatch and there's gonna be this backsliding. And I think that we don't think about that because people always say, oh, well, eighty percent of the people support abortion, or eighty percent of the people support trans rights, or

eighty percent of people support climate change legislation. But what the Republican Party and in the right has figured out is that, yeah, but your eighty percent isn't willing to go to the polls on those exactly and hours are and that's how and that's how our twenty percent beat

your eighty percent every time. And so I think that there has to be a fundamental there needs to be some really intelligent brain work to reconceptualize you know, non oppressive, non right wing, you know, non white supremacist spaces and politics, because because the idea that we'll just vote and we'll vote in the White House and that'll be okay. You know, one of the goals of the Republican Party is to

win enough state legislators. Yeah, I'm sorry. To win enough state legislator legislate tours across the country, enough state houses across the country is an easier way to say it. So they can call it countstitutional convention and we write the constitution. You know, That's why is there a bid on the left to counteract that? Or no? You know?

So you anything beats nothing all the time. And until there is a similar intelligent brainwork on how to mobilize and how to counteract this, then we're going to be in this space where it looks like things are getting worse because the momentum is on the side of the people who have a plan. Amar, Do you think that our democracy falls in the next couple of years? Do you?

Because I'm telling you that the more conversations that I have, the more fear I hear in people's voices that I didn't hear two three, four years ago, and the more conversations that people are casually having about leaving this country right, and only those that have privilege and have the resources will be able to leave right. And so what does what does the future of our democracy look like to you, I think a couple of things, you know, I have. It's so funny that you asked me this. Um, I

had this conversation. I was in La recently. I should have reached out to you, but I was, you know, um uh, I was having this conversation my friend's backyard. They are a progressive activists and and if I get more specific, it'll be apparent who they are. But I really I was going to say one thing and I was like, well, everyone's gonna know who that is. And this person was like, oh, well, you know, one of my escape plans is to go to Mexico, Mexico City.

And I was talking to them and I was like, do you honestly think that if America becomes, you know, an anti democratic, white supremacist, fascist state, that Mexico City

is going to be your refuge? Like do you know anything about the relationship between these two countries, And like the Mexicans won't care, the Mexican authorities won't care about you know, if this becomes a part of the writ closing the border, throwing all Americans out, there are all these things that can happen, right, So I and finally, one of our prints who was listening after I had this conversation, was like, yeah, I don't think that your

condo in Mexico City is going to save you. And so I think that one of the things that we have to think about is that if the United States goes this route, there is no hiding place. You know, the United States still has um you know, thousands of military installations across the country, across the world. The United States still has the center of the financial system. There are all these things that the United States still has that if this happens here, there's kind of no hiding place.

And I think that we have to disabuse ourselves that that's a real option. That's the first thing, no matter how rich you are. So I mean, look at what the United States is able to do to Russian billionaires when it put its mind to it. So, you know, So that's first thing. The second thing is that, you know, I do think that there are you know, there's always this thing that there are a third or third or

third in these revolutionary moments. And I've been reading a lot about the French Revolution recent so I've become obsessed with this and that there are a lot of people in the middle who are kind of tuned out when these things are happening, and they continue to focus on their lives and they don't really know which way they should vote. And those people are embodied in those like Trump Obama voters, you know, those people who went like Obama,

Trump Biden, right, those people. And I do think that those people largely are asleep. And I do think that we could get to a point where things get so bad that they freak out and we do get last minute real change. Do you understand what I mean? Like, I actually don't think. I do think that it's not

inevitable that this happens. What I think is possible is that we get to the precipice where it feels like everything is literally about to come off the rails, and then in the last minute, those voters and a lot of the elite in this country, the billionaires, say we can't go down this road. But that means that things are going to get in ye And I think that that's the thing that I'm preparing myself for. I don't know where it's going to end, and I don't know

how it's going to end. I know it's going to get a lot worse, and it's going to get a lot scarier. And I think that we have to prepare ourselves to be on the drop in the on the roller coaster, and at the same time, just like the drop, the drop can also provide momentum to get over the next hump. And so I think that we need to begin thinking about what is the country that we want

to live in. What are the things that if we pull back from the brink, what are the things we're going to ask for to create a fundamentally different country. And we know that things can change. For example, during the COVID crisis, the political elite, the money to elite, got together and was like, this whole country is about to fall apart due to COVID. What are we going to do to save it? And literally, just like that, money began to move, resources began to move, you know,

things that were once impossible started to move. Direct income support for small businesses, direct income support for families, all the rest of it. And what that is translated to is that in two years we've been able to cut the child poverty rate in the United States to its lowest level in twenty five years, just off of mobilizing around direct payments to households. So there's the capacity for things to turn around really quickly once we get to

these points of things getting very scary. So what are we going to ask for in that moment? I think we have to be thinking about that, and I think that we have to prepare ourselves that we are in the elevator and it's gonna it's dropping fast, and it's gonna drop even faster. Oh marsh, But there's hope. Okay, you want to end on a hopeful note, Yeah, you know what's okay? Tell me, because let me tell you something. I'm in the elevator. I'm going down in the elevator.

So please, where where do you see the hopefulness? You can't get to the new one, to the old dissolves. That's the hope. The hope is that whether it be a long period or a short period, that we can get to the place where we do get to create

a fundamentally different society. You know, as I tell people all the time, whatever happened to our ancestors, you know, in their last moments in Africa and in the long voyage over and in the long history over, they understood that that wasn't the end of the story, and we are here because they saw a different vision for what's possible. So in this movement moment of dissolution, we need to rely on that. What is our dream of what's possible, what is our dream of what the next thing is?

Because whatever happens, it's not going to be the end of the story. You know. Fundamentally, white supremacy is a nihilist vision. Left to its own devices, it will destroy itself. It will It's like Nazi ideology, right at some point the internal logic was going to take hold and it was going to end in devastation and destruction. It was going to collapse in on itself because it was essentially a nihilistic and a dark vision. So that's true for

white supremacy. So if that's true, then the hope is that there's going to be something new that eventually comes up, and so what are we doing to bring that about and what's our vision for what that is? And that's the hope because they might win temporarily, but they're not gonna win. I mean, God willing, in all honesty, God willing. Amara Jones, thank you so much for making the time to join Woke. F to break down so much that is that is happening in this country and also providing

us with a little bit of hope. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Hey there, I want to tell you about another podcast I think you'll love. The Brown Girls Guide to Politics, hosted by a Shanty Gohler, the president of Emerge BGG, is the one stop shop for women of color who want to hear and talk

about the world of politics. Join a Shanty this season as she talks to incredible women of color who are changing the face of politics and tackling some of the most important issues facing the United States, from aductive justice to voting rights, to climate change and more. Tune in every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke f as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power, Get woke and stay woke as fuck.