Patchwork of Protection

and in community with one another. And I can't express to you all enough how grateful I am each and every day that I get to wake up and do what I love and do what I feel called to do, which is to be in conversation with all of you for as long as you will have me. So I just want to say that on this day, it is my birthday week, my birthday month. I'm a Scorpio, so I go hard all year long, basically all month long, I should say it should probably start going all year long,

but all month long. And so I just want to say that I start out this new year filled with such a deep gratitude coming from a place of abundance. You know, folks, that regardless of the state of the world. It all really does begin inside of all of us. And so if we can, you know, live our lives on purpose, if we can have impact in our little corner of the universe and then lay that down at the end of each day and rest but reflect on what we have done, then you know we'll continue to thrive.

And you know, just recognizing we in this country have been through a lot of hardships. We have never seen anything like what we're dealing with these days. But I believe in the strength of all of us, and I believe in the strength of community, and that's what I continue to try and build on woke f and I continue to try and build across social media platforms, Twitter excluded because I am paying that fucking money. But again, I just want to thank each and every one of you.

This show and this audience have been a blessing in my life, and so I just want to say thank you to you all for that. I'm excited for you all to hear today a really powerful voice I really enjoyed.

I got to say, I have been really fortunate that my fantastic producer has been pulling together such just enlightening enjoyable guests to be in conversation with, and today I will say that Gina Brione, comedian and podcaster co host of the State of Women, is no different the series of folks that I have been fortunate enough to be in conversation with on Gena's podcasts that she co hosts with journalists and TV corresponding Kimberly Brooks. They tackle during

the series. You know what women are up against in this country and how different the laws are for women as we have witnessed a patchwork of protections, and you know, we will vacillate in this conversation between deep frustrations and hopefulness. We will also delve into as I said, Gina is a comedian, to talk about the role of comedy in times of despair and instability and the role of art during these times, and you know what the role is in terms of how far you can actually push things.

We know that comedians, very big names that we've talked about on this show still punch down, as Gina will talk about in terms of what they're making their jokes about. And can't we move on from a place where anyone community is the butt of anyone's jokes because I don't think and particularly in this instability and political climate that we're living in, that those jokes are helpful and or funny.

So we will talk a bit about that. So I hope that you enjoy this conversation with Gina Brione, comedian and co host of the podcast The State of Women that is coming up next, folks. I am very excited to welcome to Okay app Daily for the very first time, comedian and the co host of the State of Women podcast, Gina Brione. The State of Women is an insightful and timely podcast that looks at and explores US state which

US states are getting gender equity right and which are failing. Gina, I'm assuming it is all of them that are failing. But you hadn't tell me to pretend that we're going to be hopeful. Yeah, Yeah, that's pretty much. Okay interview over. I'm just gonna go you nailed it. Outlook is bleak. We found a few favorable states, but I'm going to tell you, honestly, you nailed it. There's a lot of issues with the laws going on right now, and that's

kind of what we discovered the podcast. We wish we would have discovered a gold mine of hope, but a lot of it was just, Hey, this is what the struggle is going to be. This is what the struggle,

this is what the fight is. You know. After rov Wade was overturned in June, Yeah, we saw an outpouring of outrage of women across the country, and women and people with uteruses across the country marching and Kansas gave us hope in terms of having anti abortion measures on the ballot and people showing up and saying no, not in my state. And you know, somehow, some way, Gina,

that enthusiasm for bodily autonomy seems to have faded. So I want to get a sense from you, you know, in the conversations that you are having, you know, why do you think that that is and what is it? Because I you know, maybe I'm I'm I'm naive. I often don't like to think so, but maybe I am that I believe that bodily autonomy would be my It's my number one, you know, voting reason. It's my number one as a black queer woman in these United States. I'd like to have control over my entire body, how

I think, how I move, what kind of job. I want all of these things, but it does not seem to be a sustainable issue. Why do you think that that is? I mean, I feel the same way that you do that it should be number one on everyone's mind right now. And I think a lot of it is people being easily distracted by other hyped up issues, which I personally believe it done intentionally to distract from the bigger issues that will end up dividing us and

affecting us greatly. It's easy to get caught up in what the news pushes in your face, where it's like, no, no, pay attention to this, forget about that other fight, pay attention to this, And I think a lot of people end up falling prey to that. Between that and just generally being disappointed in the fact that they have to fight for something like this, and that can easily deflate someone's will and someone's fire in them. Just the constant

hitting the wall, the same wall constantly. And I think that's why we need to continue having these conversations, because we need to keep lighting that, relighting the fire over and over again till we can really fix the issue at its core. You know, it's so interesting because the media is very much about following. You know, the bouncing ball, right it is, you know, they throw a bunch of craft up and they're like, look over here, right, it's like dangling catnip and so that you don't see what

is happening over there. And you know, as a person that is in media, you know, I recognize it. You recognize it. What do you think that we are getting wrong or could be or could do to shift that wavering attention span that we know that people in this country have. Be relentless in our conversations, be relentless in what we are putting out on social media in terms of this information that you need to have, be relentless

and discussing the history of all of this. And I think that's a big part of it too, is people don't have an accurate history with what has been going on. And I think that has a lot to do with miseducation, and that's like a whole other issue. But I think that's why it's really important to continue to in almost an obnoxious way, and I'm sorry, but it needs to be this because this is a big issue. Push this upfront and go no, forget about all the flash that

people are pushing in your face. This issue is still having a trickle down effect, and it's going on behind the scenes, and nobody is paying attention to it anymore. You know, you're a comedian, and you know comedy has oftentimes been used as the way to soften the blow, right, but to bring very real, stark issues through the through the lens of storytelling and humor, to deliver to people

what the news straight straight up news can't. So can you talk a bit about like comedy humor, particularly in these times Gina, that are just so dire and feel so heavy, the role that you think that comedy plays well For me personally, comedy has always been very healing, and I've always believed that it can be healing and then it can be a point of connection for people.

So I think it's important, especially for a lot of female comics, to cover issues like this and to talk about what it's like in whatever voice they have on stage. Nobody I wouldn't want to force somebody to be something that they weren't, but I do think that it's an important issue for all of us to be tackling, especially in comedy clubs, because we end up reaching so many people. You have an audience at any given point. I can perform in New York for a couple of hundred people

over the weekend. We're talking to three hundred people at the weekend. That's two or three hundred more people that could leave having more information. And in the form of a joke, it doesn't even seem like you're learning, or in the form of a story or a bit, it doesn't seem like you're gathering information. But people will walk out of a comedy club going, oh my god, remember that bit that she talked about. I'm going to go

check that story out, or isn't that crazy. I'm gonna go follow her and I'm going to follow what she does. And I really agreed with her point on X y Z. And I've even had men come up to me after a show and be like, you know, I've never thought about things that way. And it's important to put to give people as much information as possible because a lot of people fear what they don't know, and they won't

go into what they don't know. And I think comedy is a great avenue to get people at least curious about some of the topics and some of the history

that they're not aware of. How do you think that comedy has shifted as we have moved into a place of more I guess, for lack of a better word, social awareness, right, the awareness that you know, there were communities and still are communities that are made to be the butt right of of jokes that are made to you know, which which I think in many ways is the way in which you do humanize people. Right, Um,

you laugh at them, you make fun of them. I know from from listening to many comedians, you know, their stories are of the ones that were bullied, right, but then using comedy as kind of the avenue to move out of that place of of of despair. Right, I'll make them laugh, right, as opposed to laughing at me,

I will make them laugh. But what do you think about kind of this this friction place that we have seen with comedians, you know, who are still in this vein of saying everything is on the table in terms of the jokes that they make. How does that how does that land with you? And what and what do

you think about that perspective? Oh, it's so funny. We're actually having this discussion last night about the world of comedy and the artistry versus the business, and I think what comics argue and fight for is always going to be the artistry of comedy, the freedom to do whatever they want on stage, and the freedom as an artist and as a comic. I can understand that, but I do believe that even in the beginnings of comedy, even the artistry was sort of based on what was the

easiest joke you could make at the time. And I think, like everything, everything evolves, and comedy went from one liners to stories to this, and I think there comes a time when we do have to admit that the foundation at which we started this wonderful artistry that I love was often built on low hanging fruit and punching down. And now, because the climate is changing and the world is changing, comedy will have to evolve because it cannot

survive the way it is in this climate. You really have to question if you're going to continue to do then how can you not grow in the current climate. How can nobody is tolerating low hanging fruit anymore? Comedy audiences are becoming more and more savvy to the business itself, and so as somebody who loves the artistry of comedy but sometimes gets tangled in the all the problems with the business, because the business of comedy is where we

need that control in terms of cancel culture. That's sort of you know, to use a term that I'm probably sure in no ways everybody, but it's where we need to fix that issue. That's the issue that we need to start respecting a lot more of the underdogs that we've attacked for so many years and that made it so easy. It's time to step up and go, no, there's a there's a better way of doing this. There's a way that we can. Actually, I always loved comics

that were socially conscious. I always love comics that had something to say. I'm a huge Carlin fan. I love Eddie Izzard. I love the people that put stuff out there that was like, hey, I'm going to hold a mirror up to this and show you the systemic issues, the personal issues, all the things. I've always loved comics like that, and I'm actually I think it's a point of view shift for a lot of comedians where stopped looking at this as an attack and look at it

like an evolution. And you'll have a better time adjusting if you can look at it as an evolution of

a business that we all at our core. I hope love I love that you say that because I think that, you know, oftentimes I am in the vein of I don't want people to have to temper their art right because I think that art, regardless of what medium you use, whether it's comedy, whether it's photography, you know, whether it's athlete content creation, just in general, that you should have the freedom right to be able to imagine outside of re outside of reality, or use reality, uh as a

way to tell a deeper story that other people may not experience. But at the same time, you know, when I hear people saying that they feel quote unquote shackled by the inability to punch down, by the inability to you know, use stereotypes and slurs as a way to to to tell their to tell their jokes or to

express themselves. You know, we're seeing this, you know right now with Kanye West and his entire devolving right that we're we're watching in real time, which is well, he's a genius, he's an artist, and he is thinking differently, and you're like, or he's an anti semi an anti black, and like a or he's problematic and all of these things, and so you know what, what how do you how do you structure this idea of evolution with people feeling

like they are shackled and also some audience members that are just like, oh, it's just a joke. It's just a joke. It's just this. It's just a song, right, Like, get over it, you snowflakes, You're so sensitive, right, it's like the constant refrain. Yeah, that's it's funny because I feel like the comics and the audience members that are like that, it's this is this is I feel like something that a lot of people might have a problem with. So um, there's a level of adolescence in that reaction.

There's a level of you have not evolved or matured as an individual, because really, the only people who should be bothered by this evolution, the only reason you would be bothered by this is if you are misogynistic, or if you are racist, or if you are problematic, because

I don't. I never looked at it like oh my god, they're coming for me and I'm going to be in trouble, and no, I was like, okay, yes, in the past, I may have used language that now I regret using because when I started in comedy, the environment was a free for all. We never we worked in an environment basically without rules. We've worked in an environment where nobody told us we were like the misfits of the entertainment business, and everybody loved that because we were unregulated for so long.

And that's you know. I don't put a moralistic good or bad on that. However, it was a problem creating situation because now that we are being held accountable as an artist. Yes, of course, do whatever you want as an artist, but now there are bigger consequences to pay if you decide as an artist, I am not going to evolve. I'm going to continue to punch down. I'm going to do what I want. Well, then don't complain

about being canceled. You know the current vironment, and you know that we are, in the end trying to protect the rights of so many people and respect so many different people and their views and different topics and talking about things in a well rounded way where you're not just being completely selfish with I just want to say this, and thoughtless with what you're saying. Put some real thought into how you are putting together your opinion on everything.

What is your opinion? What do you want to say? And is it the kind of opinion that pushes us towards progress or is it the kind of opinion that has been holding us back? And that's really something about self awareness. How you are talking about something, How where are you of the implications of what you say. I think I've been going over the phrase in my mind recently where people say, you know, sticks and stones can hurt, can break by bones, but words can never harm me.

That's funny because I can tell you I remember every negative thing that's ever been said to me. So how can you say that words can never harm you if half of us are traumatized by the things that were said to us about ourselves when we were younger. Instead of foundation of such low self esteem and self hatred, of course, where its have an effect. And I think we need to start paying attention to the words we use in communication with each other and also when we're

talking about things and comics. Feel like that's limiting, but I don't think it's limiting at all. I think if you change your perspective on it again, that's where the evolution comes in. You have an evolution of thought you have an evolution of feeling when you really sit back and go. I mean, I had to tackle things that

made me uncomfortable. I had to tackle and I'm still in the process of tackling internalized misogyny and the things that I grew up with and breaking those down for myself working in a business that is dominated by men and having to become one of the boys to survive in the first place. And I think a lot of people don't realize that that's what the business was founded on.

This is a male run business, and women coming into it changes the game automatically because we do have a different perspective, because we do have to navigate through the world differently, and I think that changes the game. And now that we are really banding together and fighting for so many different rights and so many different voices, and

I think it's wonderful. I'm excited by it. And it makes me sad to see some of the people I considered brothers in comedy not understanding how important the shift is. I'm so glad that you because I was wanted to ask you this question about the male dominance right in comedy and about what what kind of persona women have had to take on in order to survive in this male dominated oftentime, misogynistic oftentime. What do we what do we say? Um? You know, locker room uh type of

type of environment. So can you you know, I don't want to retraumatize, but if you could, if you could, if you could just paint a picture of, you know, of what it has been like. I mean, there are more women right in comedy now, um uh. Then you know then they have been just like there are more women in more and in more spaces and industries that they have been traditionally locked out of, which is why we are seeing folks, uh, the kind of pushback into

bodily autonomy and women's rights for that very reason. So can you just paint the picture of of of what what that has been like? Um? And you know, and how far or maybe not how far the industry as a whole has come. I mean, it seems to me that a lot of comics are still divided, are still very like they don't know what they're fighting for. I think I think a lot of comics are confused as

to what they're fighting for. Once you're fighting for is the artistry and the right to say what you want to say, and as an artist, I can respect that, but you don't understand that what needs to change is how we navigate through the business of comedy. That is what needs to change, and yes, that affects the artistry. But you can look at that as negative or you can see it as a very positive thing in terms of pushing you and challenge your challenging yourself towards growth

and understanding. There's a lot of amazing comics that I think if they didn't look at this as some form of attack, would be brilliant voices in this fight. And there's some of my favorite comics and this, you know, being a male dominated industry, I think what the men need to understand in this industry is that, yes, we do need your support. Yes we do need your voices because y'all run shit and we can't change shit without

your support. Without your voices, we cannot change shit. We need you to be as effective in this and push for this as much as we do, because this is a thing where we need to band together and realize that on a systemic level, things need to change worldwide, like this needs to change, like particular in this country, like it needs to change. But in the business of comedy, without the support of the men in the industry, it

is going to be a very difficult fight. And that's why we have to kind of get them to like, ky like, this isn't supposed to be scary for you. This isn't supposed to be scary. Why is it scary? Is it scary because you refuse to change the things that you want to freely say on stage that are hurtful, disrespectful, insulting, and just lazy writing. It's just stop stop going for

the easy and start trying to evolve. You know, you look at people in this business that we're legendary, like somebody like Carlin, and you watch his evolution as a performer, being a Carlin fan myself and watching him go from silly, goofy Carlin to political commentator to this person who's just blowing our minds with the information he gave us. And I'm like, how can you not be for evolution when your favorite comedians, the ones that were legendary, went through

such an evolution themselves. And I think we can get there. I think we can get there, but it takes a lot of being real with each other about how lazy the industry has been in terms of writing. It was of course it was easy before. Of course it was easy. We made the obvious jokes. We went from you know, telling basic schoolyard knock knock jokes to one liners to know that take my wife please type jokes, that humor that lasted for the longest time. That was the foundation

for the business. And what we're looking at now similar to people growing up and fixing the foundation of their childhood, which whatever damage in trauma they had there, we're going to therapy and you're healing yourself. Comedy needs a healing. It needs a healing, and it needs to sort of admit that we can evolve without destroying the artistry. But it's going to take some incredible self awareness and admitting certain truths to ourselves about how we've been and how

we've interacted. One thing that I will say that is a good thing, but I wish it wasn't it didn't come across so negative, is that the fear that so many people have of being canceled is now trying to starting to control their behavior. It's like, yes, watch how you speak to me. Yes, pay attention to how you talk on stage and in interviews and other things, because now there is now we will not just okay it, and now it will not just roll off our backs.

Now something will be said and you will be held accountable. And that's for everyone, for men, for women in this industry. You will be held accountable for the things that you say. So you can say whatever you want again goes back to you. Ready for those consequences, because they're going to come back. They're going to come at you hard now, and are you willing to put in the work for the growth to survive in the current climate as the

industry changes, you know. It's it's I'm so glad that you that you said that, because I have such issue with the term cancel culture because it's called accountability, right, Like that's that's all it is. I mean, they came up with a new term like, oh my god, I'm being canceled. No, you're being held accountable for your bullshit, right, And people are no longer just going to sit back and tolerate it because there is power in community, right,

there is power in numbers. And the more people that we recognize have been harmed right um and continue to be harmed um by people's words and their actions. You know, then it's like, yeah, we're going to need to make an example of you, because that's what accountability is supposed to it's supposed to do. It isn't meant to silence and grab somebody's mic, but it's it's supposed to make you think twice about what you're doing with the platform,

the microphone, the network. It is that that you do have last question for you, Gina, is you know, with the State of Women, what are you hoping that people get from from your pod and like this team up between comedian and you know, news broadcaster, and what are you hoping people walk away with? Well, at the very base knowledge, people will walk away with more knowledge and in their pocket, and more knowledge is ammunition to affect change because we're not just telling stories, you know, we're

giving history. We're giving outlets that can help people. And I think that's the biggest takeaway is that there's there is hope in this situation for women. There is hope, but we do we do need to be ready and we need to be prepared with all of our resources and all of our connections. And it is the time where I think we need to ban together, and I think that that was part of what me and Kim

loved about this entire project. And Kim is amazing. She was an amazing co host, and we learned so much together and you know, even formulated new opinions ourselves just based on the knowledge that we had. So what I hope that people take away from this is not only newfound knowledge to them about the history of everything that's going on and what really needs to change at the core,

but also a means of which to affect change. We need to give people, Hey, here are the avenues that you can use to help us in this fight and to protect yourself and to know state by state what rights and laws you have, because unfortunately they're different in every state, and you have to be aware of how you are protected in each state so that you know

what's your fight is going to be. And that was important to both of us to make sure that people knew here are all of your options, so that you don't just fall into this devastated hopelessness pit and spiral and think this is the saddest time. No, this won't be a difficult fight, but I believe that we can

really make some things happen. So, Gina, what do you hope that people take away from the State of Women pod and this kind of marriage between you and Kimberly in terms of the news broadcaster and the comedian coming together to paint this picture of where of the state of women, of where we are as rights are turned over in every single state and there is just a

patchwork of protection. Well, I think the most important thing that I want people to take away from this, aside from actionable steps that they can take to really start to affect change, is also a feeling of you're not alone, of togetherness of we understand what is going on for women right now, and we understand the importance of us all being on the same page about what our fight is for the betterment of Jesus, for the betterment of humanity, for the love of God, like Jesus for love and

whatever God you believe it, we care. It's important that you know that in order to affect change, we will need to all kind of band together to fight the good fight. And what I loved about doing the podcast with Kim were the actionable steps. Because I'm the kind of person who I'm a person of action. So we can only talk up into a certain point before actions need to be taken. And I think that's what you can take away from this is like, hey, we're not

just telling you bleak bleak, bleak, bleak bleak. We're like, hey, here's also how we can fix this, how we can begin to really fix this issue. But you know, it's going to take a lot of strength, and I believe in us. I do believe that women can really switch this up. But it's going to take it's gonna take a lot, but I think we can do it if we can stick together and continue to fight. Just continue to fight, Gina Brionne. This show is the State of

Women Podcasts. Folks, do check it out. Gina, thank you so much for making the time to join Woke F. We appreciate you and hope that you will join us again. Absolutely, thank you for having me. That is it for me today. Friends on Woke F as always, power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.