Our Voice, Our Power

Over the past several weeks, since that piece of shit in Selle Elon Musk has taken over Twitter and has basically, you know, thrown out the window all of the protections that were provided and should be provided by a social media platform of its stature and of its importance, we've seen a lot of think pieces and critical analysis around the importance of the Internet, around the importance of a global town square, and the fact that our government, by

virtue of not understanding really truly how technology works, the importance of social media platforms, and just you know, sheer ignorance has allowed a maniacal, egomaniac billionaire to take over this platform and to do with it whatever he wants. Today's guest on wokef bridget Todd, who you may know from the podcasts There Are No Girls on the Internet Now,

has a new podcast, The Internet Hate Machine. Her and I get into a conversation about the importance of regulation, around the importance of seeing platforms like Twitter as a public utility, and the missed opportunities that our government had and still has and is still making in regard to

how they decide to regulate this force. The theme that I want folks to understand is that I feel like, you know, in the advent of social media, truly right, like it taking hold in the early two thousands, Facebook being I think the first, if I'm not wrong, outside of chat rooms and those things, followed by Twitter, and then you know, later on Instagram and TikTok and you know all of the other ones that would bubble up

in between. Twitter has stood alone in terms of the power that this platform has had, The power it has had for community organizers, the power it has had for activists, for potential elected officials, for elected officials, for the presidents of the United States. It has been a place in real time where you go to find out what is happening, not only in this country, but around the world. We learned about activations like the Arab Spring that took place

in the earlier two thousands. We learned about what was happening in Ukraine, in Iran, in China. Because of social media, journalists have been able You've been able to follow them in real time as they're on the ground in crisis

situations like in Ferguson. You know Ferguson and what happened there is a prime example with the murder of Mike Brown that had it not been for on the ground eye reporters tweeting and people beginning to follow in live recording and periscoping what was happening in Ferguson, it would have never been picked up by cable news and national

news outlets. It would have been yet another violent act that was contained to the community that it was happening in, as opposed to being blown up as a national crisis and incident. You look at George Floyd, right and the fact that this begat an entire summer of activism because of the ability of those on the ground to film what was happening and then to be able to send those videos out into the universe. Without a robust Twitter,

we would have never had those activations. And so when people say things like, well, Elon Musk is stupid and he doesn't know what he's doing, Elon Musk knows exactly what the fuck he is doing. He is a white supremist,

in sell fucking misogynist, patriarchal piece of shit. I wish I could form an opinion he took over this platform because like the greedy ass billionaire he is, he, much like his ilk, do not want the people to organize, do not want the people to unite, do not want those that have traditionally been marginalized and oppressed to have a voice and to develop a community of followers, right, Because then you know what that means. It means that those that are at the top lose power because the

power is being taken back by the people. And how do you stop activations like we saw in the summer of twenty twenty, how do you stop push back against fascist regimes like the Republican Party and Donald Trump and Maga Dum. You take away the town square, you take away a key to their organizing, right. That is what Elon Musk has done. And so when you look at it through that lens, you recognize that he is being

incredibly successful. Because when people like myself right and many many other people with millions and millions of followers, decide that they no longer want to spend time on this platform, that they no longer want to deal with the inundation of racism and misogyny that is now part of Elon Must's free speech plan, then it ceases to be the powerful machine that it could be, and then people need to disperse and then figure out where they're going to go next to unite. That was the point of Elon

Must's takeover. So my conversation coming up next with bridget Todd delves into that and what it is, if anything, that the people can do to hold onto their voice and their power. That conversation is coming up next, folks, I am very excited to bring to Woke. F bridget Todd, who is tech guru extraordinaire, is the host of the award winning podcast There Are No Girls on the Internet, and of the new pod, which my God couldn't have

dropped at a better time, The Internet Hate Machine. Bridget let me just tell you that first, congrats on all of the accolades with There Are No Girls on the Internet. It has been It's so wonderful when I see black women winning in spaces that we don't normally win in and creating room and space for conversations about people that look like us that exist in this tech space. So I just want to say, like, shout out for that.

But your new pod comes at a time when the billionaire troll Elon Musk has taken control over the world's town square. And now all of a sudden, it seems over the last several weeks that people are like, oh, my Twitter actually is important. It isn't just a social media you know platform that it is really a source

for organizing and activism and journalism. So, you know, before we dive in, you know, I want to get a sense of, you know, why you started this new pod, right and is it and was it provoked by the impending you know cell that now has actually happened of Twitter. Yeah, thank you for having me and that for that world,

welcome the podcast. So it was already in the work, and because I feel like I could sort of see the writing on the wall, I was already you know, pitching and thinking about some of the concepts that we that we discuss on Internet Hate Machine before Elon officially

bought Twitter. But I could sort of see the ways that our social media platforms were primed or takeover in some kind of way, you know, whether it's by bad actors and like charlatans and extremists, gamifying conversations and hijacking conversations about its sensitive topics or topics that people really need to have conversation on, Like I could sort of see that happening, and I could sort of see the ways that these platforms should be designed and set up

to have folks really be able to come to them, to organize, to connect with one one another, have community, and that makes them these these spaces that folks do want to you know, hijack and disrupt. So I could sort of see the writing on the wall even before Elon Musk actually bought Twitter, when we were in production for the podcast that that deal actually went through. So I was like, oh my god, perfect timing for show,

right right. You know, It's just I think that for far too long, the folks have said that, you know, Twitter is toxic. Twitter is a toxic space, and you know, and and there were there had been moments where major things would happen. You profiled one of them, um on the Internet hate machine, Leslie Jones, and you you profile and and I want to allow you to the space to tell the Willkaf audience about exactly that, which I'm

sure many you know, everyone remembers. But Leslie Jones, you know SNL, big huge star comedian had Ghostbusters coming out, and she had been one of those people that were using Twitter in a way that was enjoyable, right, Like, we all wanted to follow her because, you know, her commentary was fun and funny, and we felt like we were in real lifetime of like an SNL skit, right whenever she would cover sporting events or you know, just do something fun and it kind of you know, her

presence at that time reminded us of like the good naturedness of what it meant to build social media platforms. Then here comes along this motherfucker, Milo, the white supremicist I never pronounced his last name, right, and I don't ever care about pronouncing his last name right, comes along and creates an entire campaign to target her for no

other reason than the fact that she's black. She's a black woman who is famous and wealthy, and you know, so I just want you to go into using her story as kind of the kind of anchor story as to what regular people, regular you know, folks that happened to be from marginalized communities have the experience at the hands of white supremas, of misogynists, of these horrible trolls.

I'm so glad that you put it that way. I think that so often people hear the story of what happened with Leslie Jones on Twitter and say, well, she's a big star, she's a celebrity who cares, Like, what does this have to do with anything? But that's exactly the point that I posited in the episode about her, which is that Leslie Jones was someone who was a as you said, like a Twitter super user. Everyone loved

the way that Leslie Jones tweeted. She was got global fame for her hilarious live tweeting of the Olympics that year, and she was like beloved by Twitter and frankly got Twitter a lot of positive attention. Right. And so if someone who is this big celebrity, wealthy and also like a Twitter super user, who is like beloved by Twitter, if they could be harassed and abused in these ways and in ways that are criminal. Right. So it wasn't just her being you know, people saying mean things to

her on Twitter. They hacked her website and and and put intimate photos of her on her website, which is which is a crime, you know. So it's it's these ways that are that are go so far beyond people saying mean things to her. But if someone is famous and well connected as Leslie Jones, that can happen to her and people can say, big deal. What does that

mean for the rest of us? What does that mean for all the other black women and girls out there who are using social media platforms and are also being targeted for this kind of harassment or LGBTQ folks who are being targeted for this kind of harassment. And so I'm so glad that that's how you put it. I also think that the story of Leslie Jones being harassed and a targeted harassment campaign by Milo, it actually doesn't

start with Milo. It starts with Steve Bannon, because Steve bann was really one of the first people to identify this the powerful force of like disaffected white male gamers and say like, oh, this is a force that we

can really like weaponize. And it was him who really empowered Milo at the time, working for Breitbart, his his publication to you know, separ had these kinds of attacks, and so again like it's so it's it's wild to me how how often this gets sort of sidelined as a celebrity story when like Steve bannam went on to be in the White House, right, So like, obviously this is a story that has deeper roots than just something

bad happening to a celebrity on the internet. Yeah, and I think that that's right, And I'm so glad that you lifted that up on your episode, because what I think is is becomes really problematic is when we're being disingenuous about the actual problem. And the problem here isn't just you know, a bunch of white guys that are sitting behind a computer screen that you know, never go outside and are just using their trolling as a way

to you know, to lift up their masculinity. That this is actually tied to a larger political movement that we have seen that has been wept an eye. Whereas where Twitter, for instance, in particular, of all the platforms, has been weaponized um by really fragile white men such as Donald Trump, such as Elon Musk m and others who get on there are their grievances, stir up their and their inseell you know, uh bots to target and to shut down discourse.

And so one of the questions that I want to ask to you is the past couple of weeks that I have gone on you know, to your former your former outlet to MSNBC and you know, and been and we're talking about Elon Musk and they're like, oh, Danielle, so you know, he's a spectacular failure and all of these things. And I said, what is it that makes

you all think that he's failing? Right? And so my question, my question to you is, you know, as you're watching daily the headlines and following the headlines about Twitter, about advertisers pulling out, about you know, different attack tweets that Musk is putting out targeting you know, whether it's a representative Alexandria Cassio Cortez or others, what do you make of the narrative that is being spun around what he

is doing. Yeah, that's such a great question. I think that that idea that oh, this must be like can you believe this spectacular failure? I do think that that in part is rooted in this idea that we need to challenge that a white guy who's a billionaire is automatically a co genius. Musk is a genius. I also think I agree with you. I think that the reason why we see Twitter specifically as this battle ground for who can have a voice, and who can have power

is because people who are traditionally marginalized. Twitter is our is our domain, like we have been able even we have been able to build platforms and voices for ourselves using Twitter when other, you know, more traditional outlets and

places have not always helped us amplify our voices. And so I think Elon Musk sees that like, Okay, this is a place where black folks, brown folks, women, queer folks are able to build up a voice that can sometimes even challenge traditional power structures, right things like meet to you, where you can start a hashtag and have that be something that actually allows for accountability from power structures.

I think that Elon Musk wants to cozy up with extremist right wing types, and part of that as being

is dismantling Twitter's power that marginalized people can use. And so if you chip away at that power, if you if you make it a place where you know, the kinds of people who are like creating and shapers of discourse aren't really there so much, if you make it so that like if you do hang out on Twitter, your mentions are going to be full of like nazis tweeting garbage at you, and this make it a place that no one is going to want to hang out. I think that is imparcel to how you take away

some of a platform like Twitter's power. And I think it's not surprising that we saw, you know, when Trump was deep platformed, the platform that really hurt him the hardest was not having Twitter, because I think that Twitter is a unique kind of platform where you can really get a message out there and get it to travel quickly.

And I think Elon Musk is trying to tip the scales so that more folks on the extremeist side of things, on the right wing side of things, have access to that power because they're just not as they're just haven't been as good at it as we are, I guess. And so I think that he is. So when people say like, oh, he's really failing, he's really like, you know, ruining Twitter, I'm not going to say that's not by design.

I think that he wants to make it so that Twitter is a place where folks like you and I aren't gonna want to show up and aren't gonna want to be able to build up power and voices on a platform do you think that government, though Bridget failed

here by not making Twitter a public utility? Do you think that because we have essentially and I'll be super agist and not care optinagarians who don't actually understand how social media in a lot of ways works, do you think that there has been missed opportunities where they would bring in, you know, Mark Zuckerberg and scold him with regard to allowing misinformation whether it was about covid or the twenty sixteen election, to fester on Facebook and depress

like democratic voices and ads and campaign ads and what have you. They bring them in to chastise them, but don't really understand how like how this platform is used. So do you think that government and has missed an opportunity here? Yes, this is just I mean, this is my opinion. So speaking for myself, I do think that government has missed an opportunity, and I think it's really I think that we're really seeing the impact of that.

I think that when listen, when your community wants to get information out there about an emergency, they don't go to Facebook, they don't go to Instagram, they don't go in a snapchat, they go to Twitter, Right, so Twitter is how most a lot of us get information about what's happening in our communities right now. The fact that a billionaire could wake up one day and outright by that platform essentially on a whim for a laugh, and you know, do what he's done to it is a

real problem. I think that you're exactly right. It pains me when I see, you know, people who I know did not who are not digital natives, who did not grow up on law, who don't know the way that the Internet can really impact our real lived experiences, kind of dropping the ball when it comes to regulating and making sure that these platforms are actually able to be the kind of public utilities that we know that is

the purpose that they serve in our actual lives. The fact that the fact that we're having this conversation after the fact really does tell me that our elected officials have really failed us and dropped the ball. And frankly, I don't know if I see it getting better. You know, I've the hearings that you were just describing, like I've solved some elected official chastising Mark Zuckerberg, and he was like, will you commit to ending finn stuff? And Mark Zuckerberg

was like, what are you talking about? Right? Like, I think it's I think it's also a testament to the fact that we need younger folks elected officials. We need to the ones who aren't younger folks need to have more younger folks in their circles that they're actually listening to, because we've got people making legislation about technology that frankly, I wonder if they truly really understand the impact of

that technology. No. And I think you know what was funny is that during the Obama years, I think that people really took for granted how how much Obama understood about how the world works, but also how to use, how to utilize technology. He created the Chief Technology Officer. He courted people from Silicon Valley to come in as if it were they were doing their public service right here.

Don't take that, you know, half a million dollar job at Google, come and work for the government for scraps, but you're going to be doing something good for America. Because he understood that we needed really bright, sharp minds

to catapult us into the future. And I'm not quite sure that that energy that thinking, even with this administration being a democratic administration, gets that, and so I wonder what you think, bridget are the implications then moving forward, when we have billionaires that are legitimately playing monopoly with our lives and our voices, and then have a government that is ineffectual in their ability to stop that from happening.

What does this look like down the road? What does the internet, this hate machine that it has become, as you cleverly have titled your pod, what does it look like down the road a couple of years from now? Oh, recipe for disaster. Like I hate to put it like that,

but absolute recipe for disaster. And I think even looking at the Biden administration, there are some things that I'll say like, oh, good job doing this or that, but it's it often feels like too little, too late, like we're playing catchup on on issue right that we has gotten so far, you know, far afield. And so I think unless you have elected officials who truly understand what's happening and are already and willing to act in meaningful ways,

I think it's a recipe for disaster. I really, I think, you know, I especially look at like the younger generation, so many of them, what it means to show up as like an activist or somebody with a voice, or somebody who was really civically engaged means showing up online, right, And so if our online platforms are not places where they can where they can all do that meaningfully and safely, where whether you're a black woman or a white man, and you can meaningfully show up and like make your

wayte heard and be civically engaged online. If our platforms aren't places where that's possible, what do you think the next generation of like elected officials or people who are physically engaged is going to look like we're leaving an incredibly unequal, unfair playing field for the next generation. And I think unless we do something meaningful to change that, I don't I'm not. I'm concerned about what it's going

to look like down the road. What are your hopes then, bridget for your new pod and what you hope to bring or highlight to your audiences about this really important space, right, Like I think that you know, for at the beginning the advent of the Internet, it was considered like this kind of fun thing, right, you know, chat rooms and websites and blogs and all of these, you know, it's feeling it literally feels like, you know, little house on the Prairie times when you know from how it started

compare to like where we are right now. But where we're headed seems so bleak and stark. And I think that you know, you raise such good alarms and questions. You know, what are you hoping that people take from your pod? Yeah, I'm so glad that you asked. The biggest one is probably that the state and the well being and the health of our internet is connected to of that health of our democracy writ large. And so these are not issues that are just quote happening online

or things happening on Twitter. You can't tell someone just just turn off your computer. It'll be fine. When all of us are not meaningly able to show up on our our digital communications platforms and make our voices heard and you know, express ourselves, that means that that is the connected to the health and well being of our democracy, and that you know, folks are not going to show up online and sort of like your voice their opinion about politics or our democracy. Folks are going to be

We've already seen. The research is very clear women and women of color and black women especially are much less likely to do things like run for office when they know that they can be harassed online just for trying to serve their communities, right, and so we can't have a representative democracy. If that's the case, we can't have

a fully functioning democracy. And the health and well being of our democracy is innately tied to the way that women and women of color, and black women specifically are able to show up online. If we're not able to show up, then we don't have a healthy democracy. The two, in my mind, are very much connected. What do you think? Last question for you, like, what do our elected officials? Again, because these are the overseers, the ones that we place

the importance of representing our voices and our needs. What do they need to understand one coming out of this midterm election, going into a presidential election where the Internet is like the most critical infrastructure in order to get out information to as many people as possible. I mean, yes, I believe in door knocking and I believe in phone calls, but we know that tweets and ads and campaign videos, the ability to go viral is what allows people to

have a fighting chance in our democracy. Right, So what do you what would your advice, your message, your warning be to them. Yeah, I would say, I mean, what a good question first and the foremost, I take it seriously.

I do think that we're still We're coming out of it a little bit, but I do think that we're still in a place where for a lot of people, like what happens on the internet is not real life, and we need to really get away from that notion because the internet and real life are one and the same in twenty twenty two, and I would say, really start being able to speak to it when a woman of color or a black woman is harassed or abuse on the internet, right, Like case and point, when I

remember when Kamala Harris was first being talked about as Biden's VP pick, I really I was obviously excited about that, but I was a little disheartened to see that there weren't a lot of folks in the administration who were willing to openly talk about the kinds of harassment, like racist, sis harassment that she was going to face, right, and so they just say like, oh, well, we want to support her, like we like her leadership this and that

talk openly about it, normalize talking openly about the reality that you are setting Black women up to face when you are supporting their leadership. Same thing with Katanti Brown Jackson. I was a little again, a little disheartened to see the kinds of obvious racialized, sexualized, gendered disinformation, misinformation and harassment that she was facing online. I was a little sad to see that folks in the administration weren't calling

it out the way that they should have. And so I would say, first and foremost, start talking about it. Don't dance around it, don't use ethemisms, call it out directly and normalize it. Normalize calling it out, and normalize saying like, we're not going to tolerate this, we see what it is. Your little dog whistles online aren't going to work. We're not going to stand here and allow for racist, sexist harassment of our elected officials. And so I think we're not even there yet. We're still in

a place where people they don't openly acknowledge it. It's just like this thing that we all have to see happening and do not have verbalized in a real way. Well, Bridget I just you know, I continue to commend you for the work that you do in this tech space to elevate the issues that are facing marginalized communities to give voice and to the needs right and also to just engage more women, communities of color, queer people to get involved and to take up space in this digital space. Folks.

The pod is called the Internet Hate Machine and you must check it out wherever you get your podcasts. Bridget, thank you so much for making the time for woke aff We appreciate you. Oh, I appreciate you so much, and thank you for all that you do, and thank you for your You have a very engaged audience that you've built, so thank thanks all around. Thank you. That is it for me today, dear friends, Aunt woke f

as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.