Normalizing Diversity On-Screen

or appreciate you. And it's particularly in a society that doesn't want to see trans people or appreciate trans people

and instead creates policies to shrink them. And so in this conversation, Alexandra and I unpack a lot of recent news around homophobia and transphobia within hip hop culture that we have seen, and we talk about the responsibility that you have as an activist to uphold and hold an entire community and how that presents both a burden but also a privilege to be able to do that work. So I hope that you enjoy my conversation with the

fabulous and beautiful and brilliant Alexandra Gray. I am so excited to welcome to okay A for the first time actress activists, just amazing all around person. Alexandra Gray, who I had the pleasure. What feels like girl, Oh, I don't know, it feels like a hundred years ago. When we met at Sundance, I guess it was it twenty twenty. Yeah, it was January twenty twenty. So we yeah, yeah, we we were the start. We were the Petrie Dish is what everybody says. You know, we were the one that

you know, got her body inspected. We literally had no idea that in but two months the world would be turned upside down. And it was so wonderful to get to meet you, um in that panel discussing you know what it's like to be young black queer um and navigating you know, this this industry, this this this work, doing this work. Um, you have been doing so much. I don't even know where to begin, but I actually just want to start off with Alexandra, how have you

been feeling these days? You know, like there has been I mean in the midst of living in this health pandemic. You know, they haven't stopped killing black people, haven't stopped killing black trans women, Um, you know, there is so much good that I have seen through this pandemic, so much I have gratitude for, but then so much that makes me so deeply grief stricken, and so I just want to, you know, start off by saying, like, how

have you been managing during this time? You know, I was doing okay for a minute, like after we got the vaccines, are thought things that we're going to get better. And then now and just in terms of COVID now with the delta variant coming around, it's been it's been a lot because it's it feels like things are not progressing and we haven't really learned from our mistakes and

so that has that made me feel uneasy. But in terms of the social issues that are continuing to plague our country, UM, yeah, it's just it's trash at the end of the day, and I can't. I mean, just today I saw another black trans woman murdered, Um, you know and bye bye by man, and it just you know, it feels like it's hard to kind of stay hopeful, but I mean you have to. But when you see stuff like that, you know that's someone that's just like me. So it just it's scary. You know, I can't. I

can't live my life and here. But it's it's it's tough because every time I feel like I'm always looking over my shoulder because I'm like, well, I'm Alexandre Gray. You know, people may know that I'm trans, right, and if they decide to have an issue with me for whatever reason, that could that be me. It's like so a lot of anxiety, um, but just really trying to stay positive and hopeful that you know, we're gonna keep

talking about these issues. We're gonna keep calling people out on this stuff homophobia and transphobia, and that it will change and get better. You know, how has it been because you have been gracing covers of magazine, We have seen you know, beautiful trans women of color, black trans women in Hollywood really rising? Right? What is it like to kind of be at this moment where there is both more of a positive right. I mean, I don't

want to put words in your mouth. I see it as more of a positive reflection of where society is trending. When we can celebrate artists like yourself and actresses like yourself as well as Angelica Ross as well as Laverne Cox, as well as Janet Mock and others that are creating such beautiful work right and and paving a pathway where I would argue five years ago, ten years ago was non existent right in in a lot of ways. And so what does it feel like to be part of this,

this incredible movement and moment. Well, I definitely, I'm obviously very blessed. I'm so every day I wake up. And two words that I live by our gracing gratitude. There was something an actress taught me on the set was to always have gracing gratitude. And so of course they're politics, right, So just because I am trans and I'm working in trans Hollywood, if you will, I'd be foolish to think that there wouldn't be politics, and there would be colorism, racism,

you know, agism, all those things. And so I will say that there are days where it's tough. I feel like Dorothy Dandred and Hattie McDaniel, like trying to do the impossibles. And then some days I am very much like, Wow, we're making a lot of progress. But I will say too that I'm honored. Right, I remember ten years ago when I got disowned from my family and I was homeless, and I remember seeing Laverne Cox, you know, out there grinding and really trying to make it as an actress,

and I said, I'm gonna be like her. And so I think to even be sitting here in this moment with you and for you to mention my name with the likes of her, it's like, wow, you know, full circle moment, Like that's really cool. But I will say

that I'm very humbled and grateful. I know, even just five years ago when I really got started do start TV that you know, there weren't an abundance of trans characters like there are, and now we're starting to see trans characters in series regular roles, leading roles, more recurring roles. And when I started, I can count on the time that I was the only trans person on time. So now it's a blessing to see that we're making so

much progress. So I'm super honored to I mean, you have been a series of regular on Empire, you have been,

you know, on leading shows on CBS. Do you feel like there is a um a lot more character development around what you're being offered, meaning that it's not just these you know, stereotypical roles like when we you know that it is You're able to really show the breath and depth of your talent now or do you still feel like you're breaking out of what the perceived notions and boxes are when people do know that you are obviously black and trans you know, do you feel limited

or do you feel like that kind of barrier is being released a bit? You know, I'll say, well, I've never been a series of regular yet, but I appreciate the foreshadowing. Okay, let me foresiate I did it. You know what. I did the same thing to lean Away and I said that. I said, oh, Emmy before she had anything, and She's like, I'm not there yet, Danielle, And I said, okay, so just say that. I appreciate

that you are speaking that to me. Um, but I have had significant recurring roles, like I've recurred on many many shows, so I know that it's coming, and so I really appreciate you saying that. UM, but I do feel I will say, the last show that I worked on, The Giver, which is an action adventure series. I'm like, what is this black girl doing in the middle of

this action show on CBS? But I really that that was the closest that I felt, and for the first time in any of the roles that I've done where I felt like an intricate part of the story, meaning that if I wasn't in the episode, that you couldn't tell the episode. Usually like on Empire. I loved it because I got to play a superstar, but my storyline was kind of working in conjunction with like the main storyline.

So it's like all the main characters have this world they're in and I'm kind of have my own trans black story over here. Got it. And with mcgeiver, it was great because it was like I was a part of main cast. Baby, Okay, she was in the war room solving the case. Come on, it was like you needed her. And so I love that because it gave the spread my wings as an actor and artist and so I and so I feel like that's progress. You know that I shot that during during the pandemic um

and I think we're making just more progress. So I'm excited to see the roles that continue to come because I don't mind plan trans roles. Okay, So that's that's what's gonna be that this is going to be my next question to you, though, is you know do you know you say that you don't mind? Do you is the do you want to mix right of just being able to to not also play your play your identity but just also just play a part. Or does it or or or do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy both?

I would enjoy both. I've only haven't played a non trans character once on How to Get Away with Murder shout out to Viola Day because it was her birthday yesterday. Okay home grass I now my goodness. Um. But so I've played a non trans character for the first time on that show, first and only time out of my entire television career. So faro um. And so I feel

like we are trying. Me and my team are trying to cross that kind of threshold of like getting people to be like, hey, she can place this, like cast her. But also I'm not dying to place this world's Like. I love playing trans characters. I think trans people are like unicorns, and they're beautiful humans, and um, we're so

unique and different and I love telling those stories. I just don't necessarily want to always play the murderer or the junkie of the prostitute of the horror, But I would love to play a trans doctor or a trans lawyer, you know, and you know, but we have to. I don't mind playing the Nazo glammorous role, so I appreciate that I've done that, but I also would like to go further and show trans people in all aspects of the world, because we exist in all aspects, you know.

I was watching a really amazing interview recently that went viral, and I don't know if I think I got it. I saw it initially on Angelica Ross's page on Instagram, and it was the writer and the activists alack men one and they were talking about just exactly what you mentioned about trans people being a reflection right of the freedoms that other people do not think that they have

to show up as they as their truth right. And what makes people feel those that are anti, those that are that are that are transphobic, and what have you feel a certain way is that you have the audacity to live in your truth right, to show up and be a reflection of the absence of that for the larger quote unquote mainstream community. Do you feel that way? Do you like the way in which there are so much transphobia and even within the lgbt Q plus community

that there still remains. And I tell people that because they're like, oh no, that can't possibly be. And I was just like, oh, well, clearly you haven't done any movement work um with the community, because I'm like, because I have, and I remember I found it absolutely shocking. I'm like, so we're gonna like either our own neglect our own, Like I just didn't understand that. But do you feel that way, like about people who are still so phobic right that it is about what they are

missing as opposed to what you need to be elevating. Yeah, I've been to lunch with like I was got lunch with the game and he was like, you know, I just don't really understand the whole trance thing, like and it was almost like he was reposed by I basically said to him, I was like dealing with a man that's not exactly cute either, if you want to try to get all me died, but you know, I mean I was a little bit more graphic, but I say,

I don't like, you don't get it. It's like we're both problematic at the end of you want to if you if you're gonna say that I'm problematic, but people look at us the same. But anyways, I think at the end of the DA day, I think there are some people that do this for like attention, all these Karen videos or people saying the N word and all

these people trying to keep chance people. I feel like some of these people, and it's a very small percentage of people are doing this because I think of the attention, they just want to bring attention. I don't think that some of these people are like actually like real racist.

I think that some of these people are like, oh, I know that the like I think some people perform it and it's like I don't know if it's to go viral or if it's just like I have nothing else better to do with my life, so I'm gonna go to Trader Joe's and like, call you the INN word, like I just wish somebody. I wish somebody would. But than that, I think exactly I can't remember that person's name, but I saw those videos that they posted, and I

thought that they laid it out so beautifully. I'm like kind of like disclosure, Like you need to watch that video in order to understand because the fact that people have a problem with Little nas X. Yeah, and all of this. It's like, to me, this is just a reflection of you, you know what I mean. The men that I've ever met that were repulsed by me or try to this gender me or make me feel bad ended up trying to get in my bed later on. So it's like the day, it's probably a reflection of you.

And to see people living in their truth and then their authenticity. To walk out our doors every single day. To see Little nas X on the b EC Awards stage saying, f you, I'm going to kiss a man because that's my rights and I deserve to. It's like, of course that's gonna bother people because it's like, how dare you? You know, live your truth? That is it for Today's Woke, a f daily podcast to hear more from today's show, including my full interview with Alexandre Gray.

Support me on Patreonton dot com, Slash Woke. Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck. I'm back live tomorrow, folks, so buckle up.