Keeping Up the Fight

in twenty fifteen two. The fact that the only Democrats as of the time of this recording coming out and calling for his resignation inside of Congress or John Fetterman and AOC And I'm like, so, y'all want to talk about the Republican Party supporting grifters and lawless criminals, but you don't want to call on your own fucking senator the second time around that this motherfucker is indicted to say that he needs to resign or step down right

like so right now he's no longer holding his chairmanship inside of the Senate, but is saying like I will fight this and I won't resign, and then wanting to use his Latino heritage as a way to say that what you're being persecuted, bitch. No, you're being persecuted because you're a fucking criminal. And that instead of taking the twenty fifteen indictment and hung jewelry as like oof got away with it this time, won't do it again, decided to fucking double down. That's why. So don't talk to

us about, oh, this is happening because you're Latino. This is happening because oh my god, I'm being persecuted. It's happening because who the fuck holds half a million dollars in cash stuff throughout their home and gold bricks in a safe No one, no one who is up to actual good is doing that, right, Those are the actions of someone that you know, what, if I got to be on the run, I could be on the run for quite some time. That's what the fuck that looks like.

And the fact that right now that there is silence coming out of Schumer's office is wild to me, absolutely wild. But I want folks to understand that this is a product of Trumpism, right, This is a product of the normalization of criminal activity and grifting and breaking of the emolument's clause and breaking of oaths and no one being held to account. So, hey, Democrats are like, well, if

Donald Trump isn't going to lose favor, maybe Menendez won't either. Well, news flash, motherfuckers, Democrats actually have a different brain in their head. And we are people that I actually want to say, in large part, not everybody, but in large part are directed by a moral compass, which is why we are Democrats and not devoid of values and of laws and of rules like the cult white supremacist Republican Party.

And so when you see that there are members that are not upholding those same values and morals that you are trying to show case as quote unquote the way, then you look like a bunch of fucking hypocrites. And now is not the time for people to be saying, well, both sides are the same, because by not condemning Menendez and going after him, what you were saying is that his behavior and Donald Trump's behavior are acceptable behaviors for

politicians to have, and they should fucking not be. And I cannot believe that we are in a place right where this is even the case. But I'm telling you this is why it's important not to just have quote unquote norms, but to have things enshrined into law, which is what Menendez and Trump have broken, as well as Oh, looking at you, Clarence Thomas, because apparently this type level of grift is only a pro and acceptable if you're

rocking a black robe. Just you know. This is why it is behaviors like this from Thomas, from Trump, from Menandez and others that have regular Americans want to throw up their hands and say fuck politics. If we do not, dear friends, rid ourselves of the bad apples, if we do not find a balm and assault and an antidote to this poisonous orchard, we are going to cease to have the will to keep fighting for what is right. Coming up next, dear friends, my conversation with Sky Perriman,

who is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward. Democracy Forward is the is leading the legal fight against the extremist policies you've seen in the headlines recently, from defending President Biden's student loan forgiveness program to keeping medication abortion available and others. This is a really rich conversation and I hope, dear friends, you enjoy it. Folks, I am very excited to welcome to OKF Daily for the very first time, Sky Perryman, who is the president and CEO

of Democracy Forward. Democracy Forward is an organization that is leading the legal fight against some of the extremist policies that we talk about regularly on this show and that you see in the headlines. Sky, you know, bring us in. Tell us what it is that Democracy Forward does and why it's so critical at this juncture.

But after the twenty sixteen election, it became clear that the struggle was getting harder because it wasn't just about being able to move forward and fulfill that promise of democracy, but there was a real need to protect our very democratic institutions because of the movement in the country that was epitomized by former President Trump that was really seeking to undermine our very democracy, and so our organization started.

Our principal tool is the law. We bring lawsuits and we help people utilize the legal process in order to fight for the promise of democracy for all people. In our first four years, we brought over one hundred substantive cases against the Trump administration and took over six hundred and fifty actions and stopped a range of harmful policies, including work that led to the disbandment of the Trump Pence Cobok Voter Commission and Trump's voter suppression efforts, with

a variety of other things. And then in twenty twenty one, we saw in January sixth that the threats to democracy were not going to leave when Trump left the White House, but were in fact had spread throughout the country and there was a range of regressive actors that were really seeking to break down our democratic processes in states and

local communities throughout the country. And so since that time we have been focused on making sure that people and communities and democracy has a really good lawyer in court and in the legal process every day seeking to work to bring about the promise of democracy.

forward some of their most extreme agenda. And the question that I have for you is, I mean, it's like playing whack a mole with the policies that are coming out across this country. If you're looking at Florida and the book bands and the abortion bands and the changes in curriculum, and you know, if you're looking in Wisconsin at the threats to throw out a Supreme a Supreme Court justice that was duly elected before she even has

the opportunity to hear a case. If you're looking at Texas, how does your organization decide when and where to hit the ground running.

end with Trump. But many of them are the brain children of extremist legal organizations that have for many years been seeking to roll back the progress that our country has made, seeking to try to roll back progress made through the law. You see this epitomized, of course in the Dobbs decision, but there are many other examples as well, and so at Democracy Forward we do a lot of work to understand what these extremist groups are doing and

the patterns of their activity. So they will attack anything that seeks to amplify or provide voice to all the people in this country. This is a movement that wants a democracy for some and not for all. So when you see that pattern, you can see that it's no mistake that the same groups that have been behind seeking to perpetuate the Big Lie or seeking to undermine the ability of people to vote, they are the same groups and networks and funding networks that were behind trying to

deprive people of reproductive health care and abortion care. They're the same groups that don't want truthful history taught in our schools, that are seeking to ban books and ideas because really the theme there is they're seeking to build a society in their own image for some and not for all. So once you understand that map and that pattern of behavior, it allows you to be more strategic and to understand where the fights are going to be and to be able to get prepared. And so that's

really what we seek to do it democracy forward. We don't have it all figured out, but we do know where these patterns are and we know that there is a vast majority of the American people believe in the promise and potential in democracy, and we're seeing them use their power and platform, and we're really seeking to equip

people in communities with legal tools to do so. I can give you some examples of that, but that's sort of how we break through the whack a mole is through really understanding that power playbook that these anti democratic extremists are operating from. They will actually tell you what they're going to do, and we need to believe people when they show you there, ye yeah, and we take

at their word. Just like we took trumpet as a word, and we get prepared and go fight in court and in other aspects of the legal process.

using in the twenty first century. But the playbook is not new, and so you know, I do want you to provide some examples, but things that I'm interested in, and I wonder if some of your examples are around this are with regard to the way that school boards have been taken over and have become schools which have always been on the front line for social justice and racial justice in this country since Brown versus the Board of Education and other fights that we have seen, you know,

the prayer not being a part of school that was a legal battle. And so when you see their push to take over school boards, when you see the push to ban books and criminalize librarians, I want you to take this school's piece and tell us how you know your organization, Democracy Forward is fighting a back against this movement to basically ban critical thinking and indoctrinate our children with false ideals and expectations of America.

Have represented teachers in a number of you know, a number of of of actions, including one in Florida which was not successful. I mean, we win some and we lose some. We do win a lot, but it's really important that even in the times where we're not able to win every time, that people are using their their

voices to push back. If in Arkansas, we're representing a number of librarians alongside a coalition of booksellers and others to and have successfully blocked the States law that would criminally penalize librarians and then in local communities, which is what you're raising. These this hyper local effort that we see which we're equipping community groups and parents as well as teachers with tools to fight back. What we know is that this is a movement that does not represent

the majority of Americans, the censorship movement. That is that they are seeking to make it look like that they're organic movements within communities across the country that are concerned about books and ideas. What it really is is a coalition of national groups that are trying to make headway

in local communities that they target. And so a lot of our work is working with communities and people to request records, to request public information that has to be made public under the law, in order to figure out who is behind these efforts. Guess what, It's not an organic movement of concerned parents. It is national groups that

are speaking that in by democracy. So we do a lot of that exposure work and then based on that there sometimes can be substantive legal challenges, like what we've done in Arkansas and like some others that we're working up in other states. So that is what we're doing. We also do a lot of education, which is making sure that people that are going about their everyday lives, folks that didn't go to law school, understand the legal

tools that are available and that can be used. Because the law is for all of us, it's not just for some of us, and so we do a lot of work to make sure that whether it's folks on school boards or parents or teachers, understand the types of tools they have to fight back.

and fight for for other marginalized groups. What we saw, however, Sky during the Trump administration was this, I mean, all out assault on our judicial system at the hands of Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump to place as many extreme as judges right across the country in lifetime appointments as they possibly could. Can you talk to us about that tactic that has been very successful on the right and

what your expectations are as. We really reckon with the fact that there was not any pushback to the placements of these judges, and that the Republican Party has always known and has been creating this strategy for the last forty years to stop progress dead in its track.

That's unfortunately, you know, we're seeing that there is a legal movement to seek to make the courts not a place where people can go and expect that type of protection of their rights. So we say that the courts are both a front line and a last resort. We see in our work every day where judges, including judges appointed from all different perspectives, will side on the on the side of the Constitution, on the side of the

rights of people. And we also see an unfortunate trend, including at the highest court, where in many cases that is not the case because of the composition of the judicial branch right now. It's important to remember that President Biden has now appointed more judges than President Trump appointed, and so the judicial you know, composition is changing. Uh, but there is still a real need for for uh, the law to really act for all people. And so let me let me say what we do in response

to that. Because we're a group that's what uses the law as a tool, and we have a really difficult landscape. So, first of all, because we recognize that the courts are a front line, we know we have to be there whether we like them or not. You know, I believe in courts. I believe that it's important to have a court system that's protecting the rights of all, that's making

sure that rights are protected. But regardless of whether you're disillusioned with the courts or you know, upset with them or whatever, you've got to be there to make your voice heard, because that is where this right wing movement is seeking to go. Every time something wins in the ballot box, whether it is a minimum wage law or a reproductive justice law at the state level, you see

an effort to roll it back in the courts. Because of these right wing groups going to court, And so what we try to do is make sure that people on the democracy side of history, people that believe that our next, our best days can be in front of us, that believe in the promise of democracy to all have tools to fight back, that they're filing briefs in cases that they're weighing in at the court, that they're making sure that they are represented in that third branch of government,

just like they're supposed to be represented in the other two branches of government. So that's kind of how we have dealt with that at Democracy forward, as well as continuing to use the law and continuing to use the courts as a tool to disrupt unlawful and bad activity.

And we see in our work every day that change can still be made through the courts, but we also see in our work every day that it really takes all tools available, and the law is not the only tool, but is one of so many tools that people need to be using in this time.

twenty one, a backsliding democracy. Sky the one of the last questions that I have for you, you know, in that right that report that had come out I believe it was twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two that said that for the first time ever, that America was

a backsliding democracy. Do you think that people, truly the citizens of this country recognize what that means and that this election, this time, this moment is one of the most consequential that we have ever faced in the two hundred and forty plus years of this country's existence.

to not vote, to think that progress can't happen. They want you to abandon the court, to not try to go make your case in court anymore, because they want to say, well, you know, we've got this, We've already won this fight. And so one of the major things that we all need to be doing is to remind each other and to remind ourselves the ability that we have as people in this country to push back and

to fight for that future. We've seen that in some recent elections where folks have you know, issues have won on the ballot and people have really voted out their principles and their belief in democracy. And so we have to hope that is what will happen in twenty twenty four and in all the elections to come, and to work really for that.

reach out. We work with folks all over the country and want to have you involved in our work.