I Am Not My Hair

I'm really excited about today's episode. Once again, we are celebrating Pride this month as we knock out the next couple of days of June that is left and today's episode, I am talking with the host of the podcast Edges, which is all about black hair and healing from my guests, Chantey Howell, and we are doing this kind of mash up crossover episode where you know, you may hear news stories about me as well as things that she asked

that I shared with her and vice versa. So I hope that you will enjoy this episode as always, um side note, side note. If you want my hot takes on the latest installment of the one six commission the hearings, head over to Twitter at D two cents d E t woc E N T asked. Because I am there and I am live, you know what I will say about that. And then coming up next is this conversation

with Sean Tay Howell. It is really disturbing to me to continue to listen to all the ways in which Donald Trump and everybody around him, all of his There was no fucking team normal and team not Normal. They were all on the same team, which was Team Trump and Trumpism, which is about destroying democracy, which is about

creating fundamentalist Christian you know, state and authoritarianism. And so there were some people that were willing to break the law for it, and there were other people that were willing to bend the law. But the reality here is that I don't think that anything is really going to come up this. I think that sure the Department of Justice has asked for you know, all of the testimonies that they have seen, the thousands of pages of documents.

You heard the commissions say that they will cooperate so as not to interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation. We all see that Donald Trump is going to throw John Eastman under the bus, but Donald Trump throws everybody under the bus but himself. We know the same thing is going to be true with Giuliani. But the clear mastermind behind this is Donald Trump. And do I think that white men in power are going to hold other white

men in power accountable? Like I said on Twitter this week, No, the fuck I don't, right, because that's not how this legal system was created. The legal system was created for white men with power to hold that power and to preserve their property right, whether that be an actual fucking person, as was the concept when the Constitution was written, or be a fucking building. But I don't see how this

is going to turn out to benefit really anyone. And what we continue to see as the Supreme Court makes decision after the decision, and as we get down to the Rugby Wade decision, is that they are willing to erode any separation we had between church and state, any autonomy that women and people with uteruses have been able to attain. That they are willing to gut the voting rights that they're willing to prescribe everyone in America within

AAR fifteen. That that seems to be the only constitutional amendment that matters and the only thing that they are

willing to hold up. So as we watch our country continue to just enter into its dismal demise, the America turns to the dark ages, as the rest of the world will begin to lap us in terms of creativity, innovation, and all of those things, because that doesn't come from oppression, right, Those things don't come from oppression, but they will learn that the hard way, as is with white fundamentalists radicalized America, that the only way that they do learn is the

hard way. So if as you're listening to these Pride shows you're wondering what is Danielle thinking about X do check me out on Twitter and on TikTok. I took a brief respite from TikTok, but I will be back this week. And speaking of respites, I will make an announcement here and then tomorrow on Instagram. I am taking a break from Woke Wednesdays for the summer. I am putting my mental health on top, back where it belongs. And I realize that how raw and how vulnerable and

how angry I get on Woke Wednesdays. While it does provide other people with a place to share their own grief and their angst, and it is not healthy for me. And so I'm giving myself a little mini vacation. I'm not ending Woke Wednesdays forever, but I'm giving myself a summer vacation right now because I need it. It is a lot to record five shows every week, six if you count Democracy Issue, my other podcast, and so adding in a seventh, which is Woke Wednesday, half hour of

just ranting. Something had to give and I'd rather not be my mental health and wellbeing, and I don't want to take away anything from Woke a f or from democracy ish, So I'm putting Woke Wednesday on the shelf. But know that I post all the time on all of social media, so I'm still there. I'm just giving myself a bit of a break, all right, friends. Coming up next my conversation with the host of Edges, another

DCP entertainment podcast, Shante Howell. Hope you enjoy, folks. I am very excited to welcome to Woke f We are doing a cross over two podcasters, two black queer women during pride doing the most, trying to heal, trying to get ourselves together and keep ourselves sane. I am joined by my fellow podcasters Shante Howell, who is the host of Edges. Shanta, tell everyone, your folks are already know.

We're introducing you to our will gayf audience. Tell us the premise of Edges because I just love it so much and I love your title. Oh, thank you so much, and thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here, and yeah, so Edges basically was born out of all the things that I've dealt with with my hair. When I was sixteen, it caught on fire and I was like, I finally got to just like cut this

shit off and come out. And things did not happen the way I intended it too, and it kind of unveiled into this whole story of how I came into myself and my understanding of who I am and what I want in the world kind of through this lens of my hair, and it being this kind of yeah, almost like a conduit for that happening in ways that

I didn't expect. So told a little bit too much of my own business, told some things that I still haven't talked to my mom about, so we'll say when that happens, And then also got to talk to other folks who identify as square, who have had their own hair experiences and just had a ton of solidarity for the kind of shared love of the Rhanna pixie cut and all of the different things in between that kind

of lead us to where we got. You know, it's so funny because my hair I've always considered as being really a part of my identity as a black woman, but not necessarily as a part of my queerness. I didn't cut my hair off, and I always understood even you know, white women who were queer that would come out and they would cut their hair off as like an affront to patriarchy, right is I mean I'm saying that that That's how I saw it, And I know a lot of queer women who have always been like, yeah,

I don't I don't need this hair. This is not my crown and kind of, you know, the pushback from the biblical understanding of what was femininity and what was womanness? So for you, what is what? What was that kind of part and parcel outside of the tragedy of your hair catching on fire? Because good God, but like, what was how was your blackness and your queerness tied into your hair? Yeah? I think for me it was almost

wanting for it to be something that was unspoken. I think that I grew up kind of having to explain a lot of different parts of myself. So my family's also Jamaican. In my younger years, I used to have an accent. Oh my gosh, I who kid in what part my family is from? Trelawney Okay, I grew I was born in the United States, but my parents were born in Jamaica, as my grandparents and everybody else, Okay, same. My family is in Saint Thomas where all the goats

kind of where I'm like squirrels. So yeah, that's something that I'm doing, hair into it in my heart and then something that I had to explain a lot. And so I felt like at that point in time, with kind of the excuse of my hair caching on fire, I wanted to be myself without having to explain that. And I felt like, you know, it was a time in my life where if my hair was longer, if I did have my frow, it would be another thing that I would have to explain to people about myself.

And I wasn't necessarily consciously thinking of like how do I feel my most self in general and as an artist and as someone who like to make things. So I think that's something that I've had to come to terms with, and the just regular process of coming out over and over again, like starting a new job and someone asking like, who is your husband and having to explain like I am not merely to a man, and having that conversation over and over again. You know, I

can remember the conversation as clear as day. Both of my grandparents have since passed away, but I remember when when I was graduating from college, I had I had two strand twists that I was getting ready to um my stylist to turn into locks. You know, we were starting it from two strand twists. And my Jamaican grandparents were beside themselves that I would think that I'm getting ready to enter into professional society and this was the choice that I was making. My grandfather was like where

are you going to work? Like where? Like who is going to accept you as like a professional if this is what you're doing? And I, because I was like their own, their only contextualization of locks at that time were Rastafarians, Like that was it? It was like the this counterculture you know, um understanding for them it was counterculture. It's not, but for them it was. And so they were just like this association like I just don't understand,

like how you're going to go about that? Um? And so I remember growing up with there being a lot of judgment around hair, right, like the good hair than not good hair than this, and the that, um what was it? Was? It? The same for for you was that was was there were there fights? Uh? Yeah, I didn't have some fights. Um. I would say I had more judgment on my mom when I got a weave and she called it horse hair. But I think a lot of the fights that we have were just around

me wanting to express myself through hair. So I did braids, I did all the things, um, and I would often just like take my hair out and put it in affron. It was different than how she sent me to school. And I think that kind of form of just expressing myself in a different way through my hair. Like right now, the red twist, they're not as bright as they've been

in the past. But you know, my family calls me a fire engine at times, and I think just the sense of wanting to see yourself as you see yourself within it's definitely something that can be a conflict with the ways that family see that. Yeah, And I'm curious to know, like, what what was your decision process like going into locks despite having that kind of societal impression from your grandparents. Well, I'm going to be honest with you. Initially it was laziness. I was just tired. I was

tired of doing braids. I was tired of the perm. I was tired of figuring out what to do with my natural hair. And I had always loved locks and I'd seen you know, so many different iterations from micro's. And I don't even think at that time, because I'm older, that they had sister locks, so maybe they weren't called that, but UM, I just knew that I always thought that they were beautiful and that it was something that I remember my mother also saying, well, what are you going

to do if you want to change your hair? And I was just like, I'll cut it like everybody, like everybody else does. Um. And so for me, it was just that feeling of I knew who I was becoming, and I knew what I wanted and what I didn't want to prescribe to anymore. But the reason why I had done two strand twists to grow you know, to grow out like what was left of a perm that I you know, that i'd had, and um kind of get away from the damage that also the braids had

caused my hair. UM I wanted I didn't start my locks from like you know, little tiny tiny um uh twists. They were they were down to my chin. So I also think that that was like a different So when my grandparents and my family kind of started to see how the process was coming along, they're like, oh, it's still long, which again associates with this idea of like, oh, you know, she's still feminine, right, but you know me coming out as well. To my family, I have always

been you know, feminine presenting. So for them it was never like, well, what is she going to look like now? It was just like, no, you still know me. This is what I look like. I just happened to like women, so yeah, yeah, And I think just the room for that to change as well as something that I'm contending with a lot, Like I think I get a lot of questions from my family about like as relationship things kind of progress through life, like oh are you are you? This?

Are you that? How do you define yourself? And I think what I heard a lot too and having conversations with people is like, the hair decisions aren't necessarily always about identity. Oftentimes they're about convenience and ease of life and having other things that are priority and not wanting for hair to be something that is a burden, as our hair is beautiful and we want it to be something that reflects us, but it also can take time.

And that's something that I just sense, like a weight off my shoulders in that acceptance of self of like not needing to put that much, like prescribe that much meaning to it, but also letting it mean that much to me and not being okay, it's no secret that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca Freer and Tiny for a lighter take on the heavy staff.

Each week, The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, and activists to break down the issues in a way that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get The Bituation Room on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and streaming on YouTube and Twitch. Get a behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes, an original podcast from the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the

notable guests, an expert from the Emmy Award winning series. Together, they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to gun laws and take a closer look at how and why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from The Daily Show with Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes

every Tuesday. Yeah. I think it's always so interesting because I have so many black women friends, some queer, some straight, some non binary, who all have different you know, understandings of their connection to their hair. Some have had the same hairstyle for twenty thirty years, others change it up literally every week, right, And I think that for black women, ultimately,

it is about freedom. Right, It's about the choice to be able to present how I feel like presenting, whether I change that from Monday to Wednesday or it has been the same, um, you know, for for decades. I think that it is about the freedom of expression. And so like now that I'm thinking about it, and I'm like, oh, maybe there was like a deeper connectedness to you know, when I was coming out. I was also when I

was coming out for like the last time. I always say the last time because it was I consider my parents the last people that I came out to. Like throughout life, I don't really care about recom you know, recoming out. But when I came out to them, I was twenty one, and that was the same time that I was going on this the beginnings of the Locke's Journey.

So maybe there was correlation that I actually have an unpacked um to that sense from me of independence, independence from who I was, who you thought I was, and now I'm defining myself in these different physical iterations as well as like identity wise about who I am. So maybe there was a reclamation and that I never thought about that. Shane so much beyond that too, Like at some point in time, I dyed my hair red and that was a huge career trans transition for me too.

And I think there's so many ways in which it's like we have the conversation about the big chop or locks or whatever have you, and all of these little decisions that we make with our hair actually means so much more than we could ever realize. And that kind of makes me curious about where you've gone since the Bob, because he started with the bomb. Yeah, and I'm gonna tell you so this is so funny because I don't think that I've ever talked about this on the show,

so my locks used to be. For the longest time, I'd never cut them. From when I started growing them in two thousand and one until twenty nineteen, I never cut my hair. So my locks were literally and I used to wear them curly, so they were you know, I used to do the flexy rods and you look at older pitches of me, it looks like they're past my shoulders, but my hair was actually down to my butt.

And what ended up happening is, you know, as folks do know, UM, I got a divorce two years ago, and a part of that divorce, UM, going through that separation process, I cut twelve inches of my hair off. I was like, I'm like looking at my hair right now, and I'm imagine I'm like, I cut twelve inches of

my hair off. I remember my stylus and I we did it in like two sessions, right, because I didn't want like the shock, right, So we did like six inches, and then I came back and we did another six inches. And then I've cut it since. You know, I've cut it again since, but more so to like even things out, and I stopped doing it curly. So it was like for me, that was the kind of the death of that version of me, um of that of that person that was married. Of what what the preconceived notions were,

what all of that weight? Because I do believe and this is something that again didn't come to me as a young person when I was starting the journey. But you know how you would always hear how your hair holds energy, and how in certain cultures they wrap their hair and all of these different things because of you know, because of the energy that it holds. And that was very true as I was going through my divorce. It was a shedding that really need that I really needed

to have of this other version of myself. And I referred to her actually in a short creative writing piece that I did last year with this group called Generation Women, I referred to her as all to D and so the alternative Danielle, the alternative D. And yeah, I just it was time to put her to rest. And that's what it and that's what it looked like to me. It looked like changing, you know, this outward appearance that

had become a signifier. People would recognize me, you know, from TV, from whatever because of the curly locks and you know, in the long, big hair, and I was, and I was done with that. I wanted I wanted to reinvent. Yeah, you're like, I am I am not just I am not my ye, but I'm not my hair. Yeah, and yet it's such a big like I am, I feel very much the opposite where I'm like, if you see me in these streets, if you see my red twist,

you know it's me. Um. So it's just interesting to think about that like spectrum of yeah, just relating to what it means and what you want it to mean to you and if it's okay for me to ask, I'm curious to know, like, what are the parts of you that you shed when you cut those twelve inches? Like how did that look in your day to day life and your spirit? You know, I'm going to be really vulnerable and honest, it looked like a lot of letting go of pretend. I had a very a very

public marriage. We were my ex wife and I were one of the first couples to be married. We were on the front lines for marriage equality. We were national spokespeople for marriage equality, and so, you know, part of the beauty of having the privilege and the opportunity to move in these spaces to be able to present another idea of what it means to be queer, what it means to be a part of the LGBTQ community. Well

that's the upside. The downside is that all of a sudden, you start to become hashtag couple goals and hashtag black couple goals and hashtag this, that and the other thing, and you become you are then a prisoner of the success that you've been able to create for yourself. So for me, the shedding was just like I'm going to stop pretending like shit is not always instagramable, everything isn't

always great. I'm not going to watch what I say in politics when I'm upset because I'm chasing this deal or that deal, Like if either you want me as who I am or you don't. And I think that

I have finally arrived. And also I'm in my forties now, I think that I've finally arrived though through this process over the last two to three years of you know, so much happening in the world, but happening you know, in my own family, happening with myself, that it's just like either take me or leave me, right, But recognizing that I no longer have to pretend to be somebody else's version of me, right, And you know, and I think that that was true in my marriage, it was

true in the movement work that I was doing. It was true in a lot of spaces. So the letting go of that hair was was the energy but the weight, right, because all of that hair was also really heavy, right, So I'm carrying all of you know, all of this around, and I think that the letting go allowed me to really figure out, well, who am I now? How do I even like to look right? How do I even feel? You know? And so yeah, it was it was a

lot of that. There was a lot of that. It's so interesting to me because we met at what is a transitional space in my relationship life, and it was so powerful for you to share that with me because I feel so much of that and that when you are in certain kind of formats of relationships, what success looks like to other people and what is worth setting

a boundary for to other people is very different. And folks like to say things like, oh, you are this beautiful X Y Z couple, like you're such a puller of the community, and I see you and I see you know a couple that works on X Y Z, and I'm like, you don't know what it's like to live in the everyday life. You don't understand what these

little cuts do to take you down every day. And I think to allow yourself to decide to be happy and to decide one is enough and what is enough and not care who thinks it's enough or doesn't is

really it's really powerful. So thank you for that. Yeah, you know, I want to for you too, Like you know, in your coming out and you said this at the top, that you've you know, you come out all the time, and I think that particularly if you are feminine presenting, that is just you know, that is that they're there because people still even in the in this day and age in twenty twenty two, still have this idea of what gay is, right like what it looks like, and

it's still wrapped in stereotypes. And so I wonder for you, like how how your journey in this You know what I always say, it means to live to occupy these dualities right which for us we embody it so it isn't but the world does not see us as that. It's still either you're gay over here, or you're black over here and you're a woman over here. It is

you know, it is this part and parcel. So how have you been able to like bring those identities together for your for yourself and what and how has that been part of the process of the continuation of the

coming out. Oh gosh, it is still a part of the process, I will say, Like for me it what has been particularly hard is that my most serious queer relationship was interracial and there was a lot of things that happened in that relationship that I had to challenge as a black person, and so that made it very difficult for me in the conversations I was having with my family about my identity and what my careerness meant to me, and then also have to have conversations at

work all the time about you know, what microaggressions I'm dealing with, and then after logging off, have to have those conversations about how I might be dealing with that with extended family. So I think I am still coming into that and I see myself becoming more myself still more and more each day in the ways that I'm not having to be considerate of folks feelings for the sake of a relationship yet, because if you know, my

being honest with you definitely so respectful. But if I'm being honest with you, that is an act of love, and if you can't receive that as such, then I don't know what we're doing. And so that's I'm getting to that place. I think more and more each day. That has allowed me to be more myself and I'm very, very excited for the next chapter of things. Yeah, I'll tell you that they're coming into yourself. For me really

came through the pandemic. I don't know how you experience the beginning of COVID, because you know, we're still in COVID, But for me, it was even though I was with my family in the beginning, it was a lot of solitude. It was a lot of like reflection. It was a lot of walking, you know, going out on you know, on long walks on my own and just really kind of digging into my why of things, not how or why did this happen to me, but like why am

I being given this opportunity to reinvent why? You know, Like what is it that I want out of this, out of these next chapters or if this is it, right, because at this time, you know this is the beginning of the pandemic. We didn't know what the hell was going to happen, right, So if this is it, then like, how do i want my life to be of meaning and a value? And can it be of meaning and a value if I'm hiding behind an avatar that I've

created for myself that isn't actually me? So how did you deal with Like were there any revelations or are you continuing to have revelations because I feel like I have them every day of you know, of what you've learned about yourself during these like really pivotal and consequential

times that we're living in. Yeah, honestly, I think the starting of EDGES was that for me, having conversations with folks who had very different experiences than me but also shared some like similar pinpoints in their journey was really helpful. And I think that sense of self came from And I'm someone who is like a pisses. I'm Jamaican, so I'm like very passive, aggressive, I'll joke everything away, but I will do my best to let stuff go and

it will fester. And I think going back and reflecting on moments and really seeing the times that I was hurt and the ways that I did not allow myself to repair was so crucial to that coming into self. And then honestly, like being at a point in time where I was so depressed and so stressed and so on myself that my hair was falling out was something that made me look inside of myself and say, your body literally needs to fall apart for you to see yourself.

You need to stop and do some reflection and care for yourself and not think about what it means to be a good sister or a good wife or a good daughter and have that be at the risk of yourself. Because that's where I find myself a lot. So I think that has been my why, and I'm still kind of searching for additional wise what I'm curious to know what yours is, because I need some inspiration what my wife, you know? The For me, I just want to be

of service. And I think that like just by virtue of the work that I do, Like what is my why? Like I just my life is about being an educator, right And you know, I had started off my career as an education lobbyist, as a classroom teacher all of these things and how I understand education now has evolved, right, Like I use media as a way to educate and

enlighten people. But I will say that, like you know again that why that allowed me to reflect during the pandemic was like, am I doing this to like Chase likes? Am I doing this to Chase a contributorship on Cape News? Am I doing this like for the fame of the thing?

Or is there something that's deeper there? And that's what I mean when I say on wokaf all the time about self interrogation, right, like we're never if we're not asking ourselves like the why of things like when we're having mood swings or you know, our energy is shifting or things are coming up, it isn't the first emotion isn't coming out of nowhere, right, So if we're not asking, like where is this feeling coming from? For ourselves, like the why? And keep going until you hit right the core,

until you hit that foundation. And that comes from years of therapy that I went through in order to get to the place where I felt strong enough to get my divorce. But also just like really understanding that we all have our compass the thing that guides us, and

it is for us. It's up to us to tap into that guide and and for me, for so long, it was other people that were tapping in and kind of charting my path and me not you know, and me just kind of following in the direction that they turned me and then recognizing that no, this is this is actually the same way I want to be. This is this, ain't it right? And so I think that

it's really important to have self interrogation. It is really important even when we say to ourselves, you know, I don't know, I don't know, it's just like do you really not know? Or does it just seem scary to unpack it? Yeah? Right, And so I'd rather be scared in the unpacking than in the ignorance of it. Yeah. Absolutely, Well, this has been an absolute delight. This is the woke f meets Edges mashup that we have been working so hard to make happen and finally has. And so I

just want to say, Chantey, I appreciate you. And and folks, if you have not checked out Edges Chante, tell people how they can check out the first season of your show. Oh yes, just search Edges or wherever you get your podcast, it's the one with the black woman with the red hair, so you can't miss it. Love it. Thank you so much and I hope that you'll come back again soon. Thank you so much for having me. Dap you fry, Happy black Fire Coming, Happy Blackway. Hey, I'm David. Plots

of Slights, Political gab Fest. As another election season accelerates, it can be tricky to sort through all the noise and the news. Each week on The gap Fest, John Dickerson, Emily Bathlon and I decipher the headlines, break down the races, and tell you what issues really matter. We do not always agree, We definitely do not always agree, but we always deliver thoughtful debate and we always have a good time. So subscribe to Slate's Political Gapfest, new episodes every Thursday.

That is it for me today, Dear friends, Here on Woke a f as always. Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck. Get a behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes, an original podcast from the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the notable guests

and experts from the Emmy Award winning series. Together, they use comedy to tackle current topics from gentrification to gun laws, and take a closer look at how and why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from the Daily Show with Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes every Tuesday.