How We Activate and Engage

that esteemed position in the United States. Now for the rest of the bad news, which is that, my God, do I wish that Katanji Brown Jackson was sitting on any other Supreme Court than one that I have no no mixed feelings, will go down in history as the most corrupt, weaponized, radicalized, far right wing Supreme Court in the history of these United States. Now I say that, dear friends, I am not a legal scholar. I am

not a lawyer. And as you have heard me joke before, I just watch a lawn order and pretend I know a thing or two about a thing or two about our legal system, because I surround myself with really smart people.

But the fact is this, the Supreme Court is taking on in this session some of the most fundamentally life changing cases that we have seen, same sex marriage and the ability of businesses to discriminate against same sex couples, affirmative action, and the ability of predominantly why institutions to once again turn away people of color and women voting rights.

Finally doing what it is with the Supreme Court that John Eastman wasn't able to do with his PowerPoint presentation during the Trump administration and their attempted coup, which is turnover national elections and the outcomes of national elections to state electors, just totally dismissing the will and the voice of Oh, I don't know, hundreds of millions of fucking Americans, These nine justices, we're not voted in by the people

of these United States. And so, finally, with the Dabb's decision last June, and with the fact that abortion is damned near illegal and criminalized, not even just the legal, but criminal in a majority of states in this country, would have you recognized that, h are we going to go about the business of abiding by laws that we know are made by corrupt people in order to keep

the masses in check and under their thumb? Or are we going to begin in particularly in blue states that actually believe in the Constitution and believe in precedent, and believe in the will of people to say fuck the Supreme Court. Because here's the thing. When the body that is making the laws of this land becomes corrupt and corroded,

those laws become corrupt and corroded. And so the question then that we all have to ask ourselves is that we do we just continue to go along for the get along and think that, oh, we'll keep getting at this democracy apple, bites at this justice apple when they are not even are they have laid the groundwork. They own the courts, the far right, white wing in Evangelical Christians, and I use white wing. I meant that it was

not a mistake own the courts. They're about to own the House of Representatives, and in less than two years may in fact own the White House. So all that being said, you don't really need to have a law degree to figure out that Jim Crow and you know, repealing a woman's right to vote and making it so that you have no legal recourse if your boss decides to fire you because they don't like your hair, they don't like your skin color, and they don't like who

you're married to. Where you going with that case nowhere? Because if it's kicked up to the Supreme Court, there is no longer any precedent that says that you have any rights in this country if you are a person of color, a woman, a queer person. Right, you know, the majority of Americans. You see what has happened, folks,

is that when we started talking in progressive circles. And I know this because I was working at the Center for American Progress as a senior advisor, and I was also working for an environmental organization at the same time. When we started to talk about the demographic shift was in the early two thousands, and we started to talk about the fact that this country is getting browner, not necessarily blacker, but browner in terms of the Latin X

population growing bigger and bigger. It is the fastest growing that And then Asian when far right wing racist began to hear that, what they actually heard was my privilege

is going to go away. My ability to oppress, my ability to just show up and be white and male and straight is no longer going to have the same currency that it did if these people, if those people become the authority, because you see, white people always believe that when people of color get into positions of power, that we have the same sentiment and desire to oppress and be cruel and vicious in the way that they are. That's because they don't know us, because that's not how

people of color actually operate, not in this country. What we have tried to do, and what we have worked to do, and what we have fought in the courts to do, is to level a playing field for people of color in a way that allowed us to move aside the purposeful obstacles that were put in our way by virtue of white supremacy and capitalism and patriarchy. So when the far right and the radicalized white supremacy groups began to see this, they said, well, no, we got

to roll back abortion, which they've been saying. But what we weren't listening to is that they wanted to roll

back abortion because they wanted more white babies. You see, if women are out here, you know, being heads of households and having their own financial stability and their ability to forecast their own futures, well then they're not relying on men, and then they're going to decide to wait to have children because we haven't created the conditions in this country that make it easy for people to want to actually have families who want them. It's not as

if we provide universal PreK or universal kindergarten. It's not as if we provide regular childcare tax credits. Right, It's not as if we allow for parents to have maternity and paternity leave that lasts more than a couple of months, and then the rest of the time you're cobbling together your disability in order to stay home with your new fucking baby. For all of these talks about being pro life and pro child, they don't give a fuck because

just look at our public education system. But I digress. The fact is that this has been a long sought after plan. We'll start with abortion and then we'll go back to voting rights, because remember they tried. They fucked with voting rights in the beginning of the two thousands again when they said, oh, these historically and notoriously racist Southern states, Oh, they don't need to have preclarance anymore. They can go ahead and change their voting rights. Oh

we're past racism. And what did those motherfuckers do before the ink was even dried on the opinion. They went ahead and started jerryman during districts and started a pressing votes and started throwing out registrants. So here comes to Supreme Court once again for the final death blow to the Voting Rights Act. So you get rid of affirmative action, you've gotten rid of abortion, you overturned same sex marriage, and you finally got voting rights. Really, there's nothing left

standing except to initiate a new Jim Crow. Right. You make it so that black and brown people are forced into one cast system, so that you create a permanent underclass. You give them no legal recourse to have even their basic needs met, meaning that you know, if they're working in factories, say like Amazon, you know that they can pee in an actual functioning toilet and breathe in air that is actually fresh, and have medical insurance right and

have unions. But no Republicans will make sure that you have none of that, and that you are in such a desperate place in your life that you'll just take what is given to you. This is how authoritarianism and fascism works. And then when the people are so desperate, when they have no choice, no options, what do you think happens next, I'll tell you violence. This country is going the way of Iran, way faster than it took Iran to eradicate women's rights over forty years. We are

moving in the absolute wrong direction. And the question that I will ask again is the one that I ask at the top, is that when the people who are making the laws or they themselves corrupt, is it our responsibility as citizens to continue to follow those laws or is it a requirement of us to wake the fuck up and realize that something got to give and it

ain't going to be my back. These are the questions that we need to start asking ourselves and each other, Our friends and our family are colleagues, because time, dear friends, is actually running the fuck out. And I'm not just talking about midterms. I'm talking about the sun setting on

America's democracy. Because when we take into consideration what happened in Italy with Georgia Malone, When we take into consideration what just happened in Brazil with Bulsonado, When we take into consideration what has already happened in Hungary with Orbon and all of these other nations. What's going on in Sweden, What is happening in the United States, what almost happened in France but didn't. But Lepine, they're far right candidate,

She continues to raise her popularity. There is a reordering of the world right now, and it is behind dictators and authoritarianism, and without a strong democracy, without a strong United States, how do you think that this goes? Once they subdue the masses, then there will be a major paragrab that will end up in, yes, a world war. I am not chicken little, and I do not claim to be a soothsayer, but I'm pretty sure I can read the signs, and I'm pretty sure I'm a good

student of history. When I say we are running out of time, this is exactly exactly what I'm talking about. For far too long, the people of this country have been asleep. Some have been purposefully ignorant, meaning, oh, I don't like politics, I don't talk politics. Oh I hate you, I don't even vote. You know those people, right, any of other people that say I'm too busy, I got

too much going on, then you got those people. Many of the few that are activated, well, it is up to us, the few who are activated and engage on a regular basis, to do our best not to bereade, but to connect the dots for people who do not

see themselves in the crises that are unfolding. So, whether it is family that you may have in Florida that is not connecting the dots with the fact that what has happened with Hurricane Ian isn't a quote unquote natural disaster, but one that packed a greater punch because of climate change. But you keep voting from motherfuckers that aren't don't even vote for you to get the funding that you need

to rebuild. Come on, come on, help them connect the dots. Right, Oh, you got hurricane insurance, but guess what you didn't get flood insurance. And guess what is the cause of most of the damage that has taken place in Florida. Flooding

intense rain. So when these people turn around, and I'm not talking about the fucking millionaires that got their second, third, or fourth homes in Coral Gables, I'm talking about the everyday American or the poorer American that was living in an RV or a motor home and that's all they got. They ain't getting the money to turn around and rebuild because insurre it's going to turn around and say, oh no, that wasn't hurricane. It wasn't the winds that caused that.

It was the water. You don't have flood insurance. We got to wake people up. Yelling at people does not always activate them. But I'm telling you that finding ways to connect with people on a very human level and just bring to them, bring to them the tapestry, the

narrative that is going on right now. That is why I am bringing you and so happy that I had our friend A nat Schenker A Saudio on woke F Part one you heard yesterday Part two you were going to hear right now on the importance of messaging, on the importance of understanding the psychology behind the people that you are speaking too. There are some that are activated by rage. I am that some. There are others that

need different tactics in order to activate them. So coming up next part two of my conversation with A. Nat Schenker a Saudio. Hey there, I want to tell you about another podcast I think you'll love, The Brown Girl's Guide to Politics, hosted by A Shanty Gohler, the president of Emerge. BGG is the one stop shop for women of color who want to hear and talk about the

world of politics. Join a Shanty this season as she talks to incredible women of color who are changing the face of politics and tackling some of the most important issues basing the United States, from reproductive justice to voting rights, to climate change and more. Tune in every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm David Plots of Slaves Political Gabfest. As another election season accelerates, it can be tricky to sort through all the noise and the news.

Each week on The Gapfest, John Dickerson, Emily Bathlon and I decipher the headlines, break down the races, and tell you what issues really matter. We do not always agree, definitely do not always agree, but we always deliver thoughtful debate and we always have a good time. So subscribe to Slates Political Gapfest new episodes every Thursday. They need to understand this as a choice election and not a

referendum on the incumbent party. How are we doing though, and by we I mean the democratic establishment in terms of making that distinction, Because again I've said this to you before. When you paint it, it's as clear as day. When I listened to other Democrats, particularly talking heads on cable news. It's as clear as mud. Right, they can't articulate like and this is what I have often said.

They the radical right co opted the word freedom right, and and their idea of freedom is wrapped in their ability to abuse and oppress. And we've allowed them to continue with that narrative. I mean, they storm the Capitol Building on January six under the guys a freedom, Danielle. They've taken freedom, the word, the concept, the notion. They've taken family remember family values. Yes, they've taken life from us. And all along Democrats, I'm just gonna get very candid,

have heated exceptionally stupid advice that fails every time. Under Clinton, it was called quote triangulation. When Trump came to ascend, and see Mark Lilla wrote the op ed that became, you know, the think piece that is now a genre which is white man finger wagging at people that how dare you mentioned race because that is the reason why we're gonna lose, which is just such utter nonsense, And honestly, how dare you to what is now this notion that

the only way to win is to talk about popular things? Well, let me tell you about popular things. What's happening right now in all testing, and it is, it is permeating, it is penetrating both this freedom idea. And I can hold up examples Gavin Knewsom trolling to Santis with the freedom ads released on fourth of July. Absolutely all very intentional. Pat Ryan winning his special election in New York. Freedom's,

freedom's freedoms, freedom's freedoms, freedoms. The Kansas referendum intentionally called the ballot initiative constitutional freedom. So they are I mean, maybe this is just me needing to believe that, like my work is not in vain, and yeah, I got to believe somebody like, Okay, so this is my own magical realism because otherwise, you know, I just can't function. They are doing it. They are doing a better job of drawing the contrast. They are doing a better job.

I mean the Joe Biden speech that you mentioned earlier was part of that, and that was all very very intentional. And let me tell you what else. The airing of the January sixth Committee. I just really want to be clear. March April, when we looked at pulling January six voters were like, I don't care about that. I care about money, I care about economics, I care about jobs, Like, why

are you talking about that? You're wasting time. And there were folks in the Democratic establishment who understandably were like, we shouldn't do this, We shouldn't have hearings, we shouldn't you know this. Voters will feel like we're wasting time, we're you know, not focused on the right things, etcetera, etcetera. But if you actually understand persuasion, you know that the job of a good message isn't to say what's popular. The job of a good message is to make popular

what we need said. And because we knew that we would lose, we will lose this election. If it is a referendum on the incumbent party, we will lose it. The only way to win it is to make clear is to reactivate the energy, the fuck you energy that we had in eighteen twenty, to use the technical terminology. And so what that means is that we need to

retap that vein. And the purpose of having these hearings, besides the fact that some things are just wrong and some things are just right, and certain things you do because they are the correct thing to do. If you're a leader, you need to go first. That is literally what leadership means. And so it is the right thing to do to hold these hearings. And in addition to that, what we see is that this being continuously in the media and the DABS decision, really, the DABS decision have

changed people's mental calculus. It's not a good idea to reason off of anecdote evidence. But let me just share with you some examples of focus group green Bay swing voters white, like not even green Bay proper, but like outside twenty minutes of carping, I hate Democrats. Uh, my gas tank prices, the Democrats taxes bla bla blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah. And then this man, white man, burly guy looks like the Boxer refrigerator comes in, sort of your classic like with Northern Wisconsin, with person says, you know, my wife and I we had a he called it a pregnancy incident. He didn't explain more, but clearly he was very upset, and he said, and I will be damned if there's going to be a politician that's going to come into my bedroom where I am consoling my wife and tell us what we can and

cannot do. You know what, I prices go up and prices go down, but if they take our freedoms, that's forever. Woman in Texas, same thing Democrats blah blah blah, she says. After the prices, the money, the inflation. She says. You know, at the end of the day, I can learn to live in a budget. What I cannot learn to do is not get raped. People come on, are turning, and I realize I've said so many things, but this is

what is so frustrating. Reproductive rights, health and justice advocates have been saying for a million years, talk about abortion, talk about women's rights, talk about our freedom, talk about talk about these issues, and Democrats have been scared to even utter the A word right in twenty eighteen. There was barely any ads about abortion in twenty twenty, despite the fact that the year before twenty nineteen, twenty five states passed abortion bands. Still twenty twenty, you know, like,

we're not gonna talk about abortion. That's not where we're going to go. Suddenly everyone has their head out of their asset and are like, oh, it's Rovember. Obviously, abortion ads are testing off the charts, and so had we been actually fighting all along. If you want people to come to your cause, you have to be attractive, and that means that you actually have to stand for something, and it also means you're going to repel some people.

So I think we are getting it. I am cautiously optimistic that optimism doesn't come from sort of a fake place of hope. It comes from determination, like I've been, yeah, like we have no choice, we have to do this last question for you are not because I mean honestly, I genuinely could speak to you all day because I think that what is really important and I said, I said this a couple of shows ago is really understanding

this psychology behind the decisions that people make. And that's what you do with the focus group and listening to people is understanding what motivates them, what drives them. Like you said, you know, I think about my own you know, life and work through politics, and you know, I remember being I think I was like eight or nine and I asked my parents what political affiliation we were, and you know, and at the time it was just like, well, Danielle,

what do you think? And I said d because Danielle and I think we're democrats, right, Like I'm I was like eight, so that seemed logical. But then you know, my parents explained to me, you know why we were democrats, right, your child of immigrants. We came to this country to make a better life, and they explain the process. And so for me, why am I a Democrat? Because of that, those foundations that my family had instilled, but then also how it was tested, you know, over time, Like you said,

people they are defined by their families. It doesn't mean that they can't change, but they're defined by it. So if we're not understanding the psychology of what moves people, and I would you know, frankly, I would have written off the guy from Wisconsin like you said, you know,

blah blah blah. I guess this then the other thing until he said I'll be damned, right, I would have assumed that those were his people, that the anti abortion, you know, pro life, that those were his people, because I'm like, you know, what was interesting is that gay people said I'll be damned if you tell me what the fuck I can do inside of my own bedroom.

You know, that was the Lawrence case out of Texas, right, So you know the question for you is how do we continue to really try And I don't mean understand in the way that I'm trying to understand white supremacis and why they became white supremacist, because I don't care, But how do we understand you know, white Americans in particular, who every political party puts all of their eggs in

their basket. But like you're saying, this abortion overturning abortion in this country has opened up people's eyes to the fact that for the first time, the Supreme Court is taking away rights as opposed to granting them. So how do we use Is it fear? I guess it's a question that I'm asking, Like, is fear the motivator the losing of rights? It? Is it anger? Is it passion? Is it determination? Like you said, like, I'll be damned right? Is that our mantra? What is it? Yeah, it's a

great question. So fear is an inhibiting emotion. It is not an activating emotion, and that is true among progressive and sort of the progressive parts we need to pull out of people. So there's a fundamental confusion that a lot of people have where they will say to me, how why are you saying we can't use XYZ message. That's exactly what the right does. We need to remember that their task is to rile up and keep engaged.

And I would argue enraged people who are fundamentally wired to be right wing and raised in order to persuade the middle towards destructive aims. Our task is to rile up and keep engaged and connected people who are fundamentally left wing progressive, in order to persuade people towards aims that create that connect that bring greater freedom, greater unity, greater acceptance that, Hey, the world's complicated and people come

in all sorts of different forms. And I know that you never grew up with someone that was like that, or you think that you didn't, and so that scares you because the unknown is scary to people. It's scary to all of us. There's an evolutionarily beneficial reason why why a certain bit of being neophobic is makes sense. But the way that we overcome that is by equipping our choir that base with fundamentally progressive things to say.

Fear is very effective. It is a motivator of right wing people, but it is not of left wing people. Now that's not true of activists, and this is our fundamental problem. Left wing activists. People who are like doing the text in doing the don't you know twenty seven dollars a month. They like talking about politics, being on Twitter, etc. We love fear. We are like, please provide me another problem,

Please show me like darkness and horror. Oh I'm so excited to board the Titanic, Like could I get an extra ticket for my friend? Like that's our love language, like harms and horrors. Thank you ms. Normal people, normal progressive people who are not engaged, ie, we need to reach them. You know, they got ninety nine problems and they don't want yours. It turns out, boy, if I got a problem for you, is not that indicing to them, because they're all set for problems. So instead, what we

have to inspire in them is defiance. There's a big difference between they're coming for your freedoms and they're going to harm you, and they're gonna hurt you and it's gonna be horrible and not on my fucking watch, not this time. You know, we banded together before in twenty twenty, we came together to defeat Trump, and now we're coming together to defeat Trump is m No. One election is

the solution. Yep. Every single election is a crossroads where we decide whether we are going to move this country forward, because it is we the people that move the country forward by making a decision that liberty and justice has

to apply to all, no exceptions. That's the choice that we are going to make together, that all of our children should be able to have the freedom to learn the truth of their past, that all of our children should be free from boxes that tell them what they have to look like and who they have to be, and what they have to do. And that's the choice that we're going to make in every election. And it's

not going to solve all of our problems. We're not going to get everything that we possibly dreamed of, but voting is one part, and it is one fundamental part of who we are, and the minute that we get on voting, we come straight back to fight, to come together, to march, to protest, to pressure our lawmakers, because we're the ones who make the future a hundred and fifty

thousand percent. Anatchenko, Osario, thank you so much for your work, for your words, for the encouragement, for the reminder of why we need to fight and that what we are after right now is a defiance to the radical right that wants to reshape who we are fundamentally as Americans and what America stands for folks. Her podcast is host She is the host of Words to Win By. If you are not listening, you should Anatchenkosario please come back and join us on Woke f again. Appreciate you so

very much, Thank you. That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke f As always, power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.