Forced Birth Nation

the age of eighteen. I want you to understand and grapple with the absolute fuckery that is the bullshit Republican cult right now. And if women and people with uteruses in this country do not stand up to this fucking fascism, I don't know where we will be a year from now, let alone in twenty twenty five, right when a new president will be sworn in, because I have to tell

you that, you know. Coming up is my conversation with our good friend Danielle Campemore to talk about the latest with regard to the stories that she's been writing and has been hearing about what has happened to this country in just a matter of months with denying women access to abortion, stories of you know, pregnant women going into their doctor's office because and finding out that their fetus is not compatible with life, but being forced to turn

their womb into a fucking graveyard. Can you imagine having to carry a child that you know is not going to survive, but needing to walk around, go to work, go to school, go to church, synagogue, the mosque with a dying fetus inside of you. What kind of fucking gruesome medieval society do we live in? And what is it going to take for people to get into the fucking streets and realize that they need right now to fight for their lives because that's what the Republican cult

is forcing us to do. This country is in such harm's way right now. There is just so much. And yes, I lifted up the other day that the Inflation Act was past major win for the Biden administration. Lifted up that the gun legislation, although it's not going to stop mass shootings and doesn't reinstate an assault rifle ban, but you know, it's something for people to hang their hats on.

But this issue of abortion and reproduction and the ability to have freedom right, because this is what this is about. This is about women and people with uterus is having access to freedom, the freedom to chart your path, the freedom to establish your dreams, the freedom to have access to an education. Because this is the other thing that I will talk about with Danielle, is that you don't need to look really far for the correlations between poverty

and child pregnancy. Right, you don't need to look far to understand that the expectancy right of success from a teen mother is not high. So for again, for a country that says that they care about children, we're really doing a shit job because soon we'll probably have child brides and child labor again, because that's how much we just need more cogs in the machine, and the capitalistic fascist machine. That's all we need. You know. I saw a meme the other day and I said, wow, goddamn.

And the meme said something to the effect it was two cartoon characters, two white cartoon characters staring at each other, and the first one has a sign on it that says capitalism, and it looks at the other cartoon character and points and says, who are you? And the other cartoon character has a sign on it that says fascism, I'm fascism. I'm what happens when times get tough? Right,

We wonder how the Holocaust happen. We wonder how these issues happen in countries where you see governments overthrown and you see vicious violence right at the hands of government and state police. Usually comes during times like this, and

we are seeing it day by day. So what's going to happen when all of Congress is filled with Marjorie Taylor Greens and Lauren Boebert's will cease to be Congress because their whole goal will be to do what Donald Trump began, which is a dismantling of all of the agencies and government as a whole. But they'll continue to bolster up the military, which they will use against the people of this country. If we don't wake the fuck up, right, if we don't wake the fuck up, we are going

to lose everything. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend, abortion advocate and writer for The Today Show, Danielle Campomore. Hey, I'm David. Plots of Slaves political gadfest. As another election season accelerates, it can be tricky to sort through all the noise and the news. Each week on The gap Fest, John Dickerson, Emily Bathalona and I decipher the headlines, break down the races, and tell you what issues really matter.

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so you never miss a new episode. Folks, Whenever I have the opportunity to speak with our friend Danielle Campa Moore, who writes for Thetoday dot com and many other outlets on the issue of abortion, reproductive care, and health, you know, it's a trying time and it's hard conversations, but it's

important conversations to have. And Danielle, I just want to start off with, you know, since the DABS decision, which was the last time that we had the ability to speak, there's just and awful headlines after awful headlines with girls that aren't even teenagers, teenage girls living in states that are now abortion deserts and being forced forced to give birth, being told like what just happened this week from a Florida court that a sixteen year old girl isn't mature

enough to have an abortion, but apparently she is mature enough to become a mother. And you know, these stories are weighing on my soul and so many people, and so I just want to start off with asking you know how you are doing and how these stories ones that you are writing yourself and then also reading are landing with you. Well, one, thank you so much for having me. It's always such a joy to speak with you,

even in these types of circumstances. It is always I'll always start by saying it as a privilege to hold space with people who trust me with their stories, especially in some of the most dire circumstances that they've ever faced. I've spoke with a mom to a two year old who had to travel out of state because her fetus was incompatible with life, but she was denied an abortion. I spoke to another mother who had a four year old.

She was forced to travel out of state for an abortion because her fetus had half a skull and half a brain, incompatible with life, but she was denied an abortion. Covering stories of a ten year old rape victim who had to travel out of state. Now that state has banned abortion in cases of rape and incests, So what was available to even that rape victim that child is no longer available to people in that state of Indiana

or states nearby. And then, of course, as you mentioned the sixteen year old, I'm now working on a story speaking with other people who had to beg in a court when they were children, who because they either didn't have parents or they didn't have parental consent because their parents weren't safe people for them to speak to about having an unwanted pregnancy and what it was like for them to beg a judge to grant them access to healthcare.

They had to speak about their GPAs they had to say that they had good enough grades that it talked about their extracurricular activities to show that they were responsible. Children talk about their dreams as if they were their dreams worthy enough to be pursued, as opposed to be enforced to become a parent. So again, it's always a privilege that people trust me with their stories. But I'd be lying if I said there aren't tears shed on both sides, that it isn't difficult to hear the harm

being caused. And this harm, make no mistake, is not an accident. It is on purpose. The even the exception language in these bands are vague. Purposefully they get in the way of doctors being able to care for their patients adequately and in a way that they know how to do how they're trained to do. I mean, one of the conversations that I had that I think about Danielle all the time I spoke with a physician who

a woman who is pregnant comes in. She's in labor sixteen weeks, her membranes are gone, she's bleeding out, she's in extreme risk of infection, in going in a sepsis, in shock and dying. This doctor knows exactly what she needs to do. She needs to perform an abortion to remove the remains of the pregnancy to save this person's life. But she steps away from her patient. She goes out

in the hall. She calls her lawyer, who now is on speed dial, to make sure that she won't go to prison and her children at home won't be left without a mom because she's stripped of her job and she's going to go to jail. And she talked about I don't know how I'm going to live with myself if someone dies because I don't do my job, but my child loses a mom because I go to prison

for doing my job. These are unbelievably cruel circumstances that doctors and patients, children victims of rape are facing now

and it will only get worse, unfortunately. You know, Danielle, that's the stories that I know that you share and cover are absolutely heartbreaking and They're heartbreaking, and they're necessary because people need to understand what their ambivalence causes, right, because this isn't just an issue of people didn't vote right, Like this isn't just an issue if people didn't show up and quote unquote do the right thing. It's the idea that we believe that something that had been always

in our lives was going to remain. And I don't know how to express to people now that if you were not voting with a level of fury. I still don't understand why people are not out in the streets every single day demanding that this country recognize women and people with uterus is as full human beings. I don't understand. But I wonder, you know, what if anything, did the turnout in Kansas signal to you? As you know, the country was pretty much stunned with the people of Kansas,

in a red state who are quote unquote conservative. I don't even know what that means these days, but they voted no against the state's ability to strip away abortion. What if anything did that signal to you? It really has signaled three things to me. And I've been thinking about this a lot leading up to Dabbs, but definitely once Dobbs ruling came down and Rowe was no more one the failure of the media. This is not surprising to anyone who ever paid attention. Abortion is incredibly popular

in this country. Seventy plus percent of Americans believe that Roe should have remained intact. Republicans get abortions, Democrats get abortions, Catholics, Christians, Baptists, Protestants, Conservatives, liberals, atheist, you name it. Everyone gets abortions, and it's incredibly popular. The idea that those decisions need to be made between a pregnant person, their medical care provider, and their family

and if they have won their religious leaders. That's an incredibly popular Yet we've framed this for decades as a contentious issue, a debatable issue, when it's really just being debated by people in positions of power who have benefited off the idea that this is contentious and we shouldn't talk about it, because it really isn't. And that was for an out in Kansas, in a quote unquote red state where again people want to make their own healthcare

decisions regardless of who they vote for. And we're also seen and this was born out in one woman that I talked to in Texas who had to travel out of state for an abortion because the fetus wasn't compatible with life. She's talking to her family members and they didn't understand that what she needed was an abortion. They didn't comprehend that what they've actually fought for, they were happy to see row overturn actually harmed one of their

loved ones. And so, you know, people thought, well, what was for they was never going to hurt me and mine. Well that's not true. Will absolutely hurt you and yours one way or the other, whether you ever considered the possibility of having an abortion or not. And so we're seeing that galvanized voters in a way that perhaps has

surprise Republicans and Democrats alike. I think Foxnews just came up with a polling in the shift of people turning towards Democrat leaders on the stance of abortion alone nine point shift for white women, ten point shift for non white women. Shifting dads was over twenty points. Dads don't want people making decisions for their daughters, for their wives, for their girlfriends, you know, mistresses. Even so, I mean, we're seeing what happens when the media could cover this

more adequately. We're also seeing what could have happened if the Democratic Party never ceded the quote unquote moral high ground, never did the safe legal rare, but instead would have done the safe legal and whenever it is needed in

conversation with a patient and their doctor. And now it is I know, disheartening to the people that I've talked to who are being impacted to see access to abortion care still being considered a political chess piece as opposed to a dire human rights violation that is harming people in real time and will continue to do so. And so hopefully the Democrats don't just see this as a political talking point, but really a call to action to

better support and protect their constituents. And that doesn't just include, as I mentioned, Democratic voters, but every voter in the country.

You know, Danielle, There's something that I've been thinking about since this decision came down, and it's the fact that what happened around the same time, if not within the same year, as Roe v. Wade becoming law of the land in the mid nineteen seventies is that women were actually able for the first time the alleged the courts to be able to get credit cards, to be able to get mortgages, to have financial independence. That didn't happen

in this country until the nineteen seventies. And I wonder if you see as well the correlation between what we are seeing roll back in terms of bodily autonomy and the correlation between moving this not just with the body, but to every facet of a woman and a person with a uterus's life, where we could possibly see women have all freedoms taken away from them and no one bad an eyelash. Do you see that correlation? I do.

I mean we saw it in the Dobs decision, in writing from other justices who suggested that we need to go back and look at at laws that protected access to birth control, for example, same sex marriage, interracial marriage. But I'm also saying that in conversations that I'm having with people. I did a story for Today dot com and people who look they want to have babies, they

were planning on starting their families. Then they lost the constitutional right to abortion care, and now they're reconsidering that not just because of the potential physical ramifications. Again, what that they have an ectopic pregnancy. What happens if there's a pregnancy complication. Is a doctor going to pick the life of potential life of a fetus over their own?

But also what does this mean in terms of their ability to go back to work if they're a mother, what happens to them if they come into some sort of financial difficulty they lose their job. Are they going to be shackled to someone who, yes, loves them now, but their own financial and freedom, their independence is important

to them. And that was put on in real conversations that couples are having about this could extend to my financial security, This could extend to my ability to still be a member of the job force, my ability to

go to work. So when we already have a country that doesn't mandate paid print to leave, that has limited access to affordable childcare, that has a rising maternal mortality rate, and a maternal mental health crisis, all these things they all go together, and people are stopping and pausing and considering whether it's even safe for them to start families physically, financially or otherwise. I just, you know, the ramifications of

all of this. I don't even think it's only been a couple of months right since this decision came down, and what we are seeing across the board is just how fundamental the access to abortion is in our lives, right, and you know, and it isn't in too all of the stories that you started out with. It isn't just about you know, oh that what Republicans like to say, Oops, I got pregnant and so I'm using abortion as a

birth control. It's like, no, I wanted this baby, and the baby is not and the end, the fetus is not viable. Right, So I'm supposed to turn my womb into into what a graveyard because of politics? I just you know, I wonder, Danielle, what do you if you were, you know, marshaling people together, what would the actions that you would want to see taken? Like, what should people who are angry, who are sad, who are grief stricken? What would you have people be doing right now? And

that is regular people on the ground. And then the democratic establishment in this moment. Well, I've had a lot of those conversations with people that I've interviewed, because so many of the interviews has ends with really candid questions where they'll ask me, I just don't know what to do? What do I do? I believe in the power of storytelling,

and we've seen how that works. I mean, Matt Gates attacked abortion advocate in Texas of regarding her weight, try to body shame her, tried to say that everyone who's upset about the end of row are all overweight, no one would want babies with them Anyways, she turned around and raised over two million dollars, and that was off of her storytelling, off of her experience, off of her uplifting other stories of people who have abortions. And so

I think there's power in talking about it. I think there's power and talking about it openly and honestly and candidly with friends and family members as long as you're safe and supported. And I fully believe it in the power of that, and we see that born out time and time again. I believe that that's why Kansas the vote came down the way that it did and the

citizens of that state decided to protect abortion access. That was led by people sharing abortion stories, sharing stories like the people that I've interviewed, And there's power in that. People see themselves in that. As far as those of that we've elected into office who have made promises about protecting access to abortion care, look, we don't need to point out that we lost Roe v Weight after our fifty years when we had a Democrat and the president,

a Democrat controlled House and a Democrat controlled Senate. But you can't protect something if you don't name it out loud. And thus President they in his cabinet won't even say the word abortion and their stigma associated to that, and that really is a huge signal to people who have abortion and who need abortions for any number of reasons, in any number of circumstances, that for some reason they should be ashamed about it. And that's not what we need from those who in the in the same breath

avow to protect abortions. So I think it again, it starts with even just saying the word out loud, and that's that's the smallest of things that those in positions

of power can do. You know. One of the other things that I've been thinking about as well, and again just stories and correlation between what is happening and what we've seen in other countries is talk to us about, you know, the correlation between education, right like being able to have access to an education and these young girls that are being forced into motherhood that what do we think is going to happen when a sixteen year old

is now forced into being into parenthood? What do we think is going to happen when a ten year old is forced into parenthood? So I want to know if in your research also you see the correlation between you know, lack of access to education, poverty and what and kind of the cycle that will come out of the denial of abortion. Absolutely, I mean make the mistake. The stories

that we're hearing now, they're not new stories. These stories have long existed, but they've existed in primarily black communities, brown communities, poor, rural and LGBTQ plus communities. So there's a lot to be said for why they aren't covered at the capacity that they're covered now. And that's again something the media needed to reckon with. And we would have covered abortion the way we're covering a post row

people wouldn't be as surprised as they are now. It wouldn't be this shocking that access to abortion care lack thereof can harm everybody because we would have covered it adequately. But that those stories came from predominantly black communities and therefore for overlooked is a big reason why we are here now, in this moment. But to your point, look, tons of studies have shown the harm that has caused by people who are denied access to abortion care. They

have a higher risk of living in poverty. The majority of them are already mothers, so their parents are so the children that they already have hit milestones later than kids from other families. Their kids are more likely to live in poverty, more likely to suffer via their education. It causes exponential harm. And this isn't just when it

comes to abortion either. There are studies that show that young girls and people who get periods miss school because they don't have access to adequate period products, because they don't understand what's going on with their body, and they're afraid because their stigma associated to that too. All these themes are interconnected. The more education we have, the more the media actually informs the public instead of both sides issues under the guise of neutrality, but just informs the public.

And then we expand access to education, childcare, to other reproductive services, the more that people will be able to make better informed decisions that allow them to pursue their education, their career goals, any number of things that they can do but without those things, without access to reproductive healthcare, including abortion, without access to other services, and without the stories from the most marginalized, so many people are going

to be harmed. Women are going to be missing from the workforce, from higher forms of education, from positions of power. We're going to lose voices that we need. That includes in the House and the Senate, in local government. It will be that much harder. I mean, I'm a mom, I love my children. I have been able to pursue a career that I love with my children in tow.

But it is not a lie to say it's much harder and without access to support that I am lucky enough and privileged enough to have, would I be where I am now? I don't think so. That's not, you know, a lie, It's not anything other than the truth. Raising children is hard, especially for working moms who still face a disproportionate amount of work inside the home, where we're still considered primary parents by our employers and by schools.

They call us first, they rely on us first, and if we have an assist male partner, they are considered secondary. Until that changes too, it will always fall on moms, and that's why we need that additional support, and that includes access to abortion, and unfortunately, we're seeing that taken away state by state, clinic by clinic, and it's not

seeming to slow down. You know. One of the other things that I have been saying, and this is something that at some point I need to write about myself, which is the creation of a permanent underclass, which is what allows fascism to grow. Right, You need a permanent underclass. And how do you get that. You take away people's education, you take away access to abortion, you take away, you know, any protections in the workforce, and little by little you

rob people of their hope and their future. And that's what and that's what allows you know, this type of authoritarian regime to thrive. And so I want people to be able to connect the dots between all of the things that are happening and what their vision right, what the opposition's vision is for the future, Daniel. For those who are listening, that are feeling powerless, that are feeling hopeless, what do you say to them, Well, one, You're feelings are valid, and I think that it's okay to sit

in them. Toxic positivity is also real, and I think that to deny how burdensnesses have difficult it is, how disheartening and heartbreaking it is, especially as we hear more of these stories, is to deny yourself a part of that humanity that keeps us capable of possessing empathy and sympathy, and those can be galvanizing. So your feelings are valid.

But then I would encourage you to listen, to listen to the people that this is impacting the most, to read those stories, to listen to people, to have those conversations. And I mean it can be challenging at times to say, vote, and I can understand that that can be very frustrating for people to hear when so many did vote and they put the people that they wanted an office. And here we are anyways, but making your voice heard is

incredibly important in a variety of ways. Voting is one of them, but it's not the only one, but I do think it is an important one. And then, yeah, have those conversations, support the people who are sharing their stories,

especially in some of the most heartbreaking of times. And in all the conversations that I've had with all of these people who have trusted me with their experiences, one resounding lesson that they've taken away from what they've endured is to support and protect your people, your community, show up for each other, because no matter what, we do, have each other. You have your community members, you have

your neighbors. And the more that we show up for each other, especially when people are being encouraged to tell on each other in states like Texas and Oklahoma and Ohio and Louisiana, the more that we're told that we need to be pointing fingers at each other and distrusting each other, the more harm we're causing our communities and therefore ourselves. So show up for each other, trust each other, help each other, support each other, and in that I

think we'll find power and hope. Danielle Campamore, as always, thank you so much for making the time to join woke f and continue the good, valiant fight that you wage every single day. We appreciate you. Thank you, my dear friend. I appreciate you. That is it for me today, Dear friends on woke f as always, power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.