Flint Still Doesn't Have Clean Water - with Hill Harper

PM Mood. The whole idea behind the show was to talk to folks like yourself in order to understand how you utilize your social platform to increase your social impact. And I think that now more than ever, as we're all living in the midst of a global pandemic, we need folks like you to be on the ground doing the work. And so you are and you are coming

to us from Detroit, Michigan. And I think that in the midst of all of this, with the sheltering at home and the quarantining and the social distancing and the washing your hands, we're forgetting about those folks who haven't been able to have the ability to do any of the things I have just listed. Ever specifically, you have been working with folks in Flint, Michigan. Who, if I'm not mistaken, we are going on what six years with

them not having water? Six years? Yes, so in a with a pandemic that acquires us right in order or to stay safe, to wash our hands, to um to do, to wash our surfaces, and all these things explain to us. Give give, give me the picture of what is going on in Flint, what has been going on, and now what has been exacerbated by the pandemic. Okay, so wow, that's a huge and long story. I'll try to be as concise as possible. But about five years ago I was invited to Flint to do a community event in

the city. Um it was Ryan Kugler. This is previous Black Panther. Yeah, Jesse Williams and a group of singers and other folks. We came in to do this event to basically support the community. His brother came up to me after as a hill opera. Man, I read your books. I love you, brother, and I know you're committed, but but but you got to promise me someone. I was like what man? He said, Man, we got so many celebrities coming here. They come in, take a selfie, and

then we never see him again. Yeah, they're using us for publicity, but they're actually not staying around to see if anything happens. He said, promise me you'll come back, and I said, brother, I promise. And so I've gotten more and more intrenchimauty because you become friends with the peat,

with folks there, you become rooted in the community. So I've gone back and back and back and held a number of events and all sorts of different things started doing, using which my mother was very happy about, using my

law degree. Finally, we created a Social Justice Law partnership to get folks to register for the lawsuit where we're trying to establish a Flint Victims Fund, much like the nine to eleven Victims Fund, because you don't know how led impacts you over time, and all of these kids have been poisoned and we don't know when certain learning disabilities make crop up. They may not be showing symptoms. Now we need a victims fund so you can so

there's money available. If there is special needs, you can be able to come to the victim's fun just like the nine eleven victims, the first responders. A lot of the medical problems didn't show up the first year or two, but they started to present themselves. So same thing. So doing that work, meeting a lot of people. As soon as this crisis hit, started getting a DM on my Instagram. Hey Hill, you know we've met a direct message on my Twitter, some emails, some texts. Yo're there's a crisis

within a crisis happening. We need help. This is a water desert. So just for instance, just I need to paint the picture. Flynn is one of the poorest cities in America. Forty one percent of the folks who live there live below an already very low poverty line. Most of the people who are that make up that forty one percent or African American women age twenty three to

thirty five, many of whom are single moms. You're talking about folks who are still there, and people have the audacity to hit me and say, man, you're doing more a flint. Why are people still living there? I mean, if it's that bad, they should leave. And it's like, I want to be leaving. And it's the same thing

that people said during Katrina. Leaving requires resources yeah, in order for you to flee, whether whether it's in the wake of a hurricane or a global penn and people fled New York and our out all over the place because they have the ability to do that. People don't understand it requires means economic mobility and mobility period but based on economics is one of the biggest privileges that anyone can Yep, if you're in a war torn country,

why don't you just leave? If they're a refugee, if you're in a refugee camp, why don't you just leave? You know, it doesn't work that way, It doesn't work. So the people who had the means to lead Flint have left. Okay, the people who are still there it is. It is sad, and it's hurtful. And not every single person there And I'm not casting. There are people there who are really trying to Like I'm from Flint, I'm gonna stay here and see it recover. And even though

I could leave. So there are those folks, But there there are many people there that just don't have the ability to and and and also a water desert happened, you know, much like we talked about food deserts. Why doesn't happen because even in wealthy communities, you saw that folks were having trouble getting water at a point, right, so just think about a place like Flint. So we decided to put together I decided to put together very

quickly a gofund me campaign. Um the initial raised was twenty four thousand to try to get about ten thousand gallons of fresh water there. Um Ian levan Zant challenged me and said, you didn't shoot high enough. You got to raise that to fifty thousand. She helped with a lot of her supporters to give, you know, relatively small amounts because it was all about you know right now is you don't want to ask people to over extend

because there's a lot of economic uncertainty. But right because and give, and it's a lot of people giving, it adds up. And so we've made it up to fifty seven thousand dollars. We just had this morning another five thousand gallon giveaway on the east side of Flint, whereas there's a large Latino population and you know, again two and a half hour line of cars. The need there is so extreme h and obviously this is triash. So we're doing these things there's like get water there because

they need it now. Um. And we want to create more sustainable solutions over time, and that's part of the work we want to do. But right now it wasn't time to just have a form to talk about sustainable solutions. It's about, hey, folks need water right now. We got to get it there within this crisis. He'll tell me, you know, what is Governor Whitmer doing? What? What? What is? What is? What are you know? And look, I watched

the news. I have to do for so for my living. Um. But Governor Whitmer, she's being held in a lot of ways, you know, uh, dealing with the shutdown, dealing with these arm militias that are storm in the Capitol building, these arm white men. Um. But this flint problem, like I said at the beginning, has been going on for sixty six years that we know about. So let's just say that because people been drink and poison water there. But it wasn't until you know, six years ago that it

became a national crisis and national situation. Um, what if anything is the state government doing to help the people, because wonderful like we you know, I I there's a leader of an organization called Color of Change Rashad Robinson, and he says that we can we cannot, you know, we cannot use charity as a way to get us out of systemic problems. Right. You are doing wonderful work as a as an incredible philanthropist, as an activist, but we can't. We can't goodwill our way out of this. Right,

this is this is a systemic policy problem. So what if anything is the government doing there? You know, I asked that very question and very frustrated. You know, there's a wonderful Lieutenant governor here named Garland Gilchrist who's a brother who I know, and I text him about these issues because clearly there's the lack of political will to solve this problem is abhorrent and it's and it's evidence

and it's it exists over two administrations. And part of the platform of the campaign platform was look Governor Schnyder, look what he did to this community. And then now you've been in office long enough to solve it. The same problem happened, and let's be very clear, and I know we're not you know, and listened, the same problem

happened with the right to literacy case. Then and I don't know if you know much about it, and a lot of people don't know about this case, but tell me here in Detroit there was a group of young African American scholars who were under educated in terms of just they filed a brilliant lawsuit all right to literacy. I have a right to be taught. Wow, right to go to a school that educates me. We have a public system, and I went to a system that did

not do that. The previous administration and other folks fought it. It ended up going moving into way through the court system, and the governor said, hey, um, you know, I support these brothers. I support I support the scholars, but they did not settle the case since she's been in office. And then finally, because of pressure last week, she said,

I'm going to settle the case. Problem is she waited so long that the Court of Appeals, which we know has been act with folks that may not be that supportive, have have have picked up the case. So they're gonna they're gonna rehear the case that these these young scholars won in district federal district court. Because of dragging feet on these types of things. So I never want to do I don't do comparative harm. Well, I'm not. I'm not.

I'm not comparing harm, but I am comparing political will in this example I'm about to give in very short order, in the state of Michigan, when the horrific acts of Larry Nasser at Michigan State gained attention around I believe it was thirty two or twenty eight gymnasts or I'm not sure the exact number, but it's in around that number.

Horrible acts that was settled with those gymnasts. I believe the number was around five hundred million dollars within a matter of I think three months, national attention, a spotlight. Obviously there was political will. A city of one hundred thousand people that has been poisoned has not gotten a settlement, and it is shameful. It's shameful on all of us that have allowed it to continue. I look at I put myself in there too. I'm not saying, oh, you know,

everybody else. You know, I'm just as at fault for not pushing and and and and sounding the bullhorn hard enough and loud enough to create political will. But it is a shame. There's no question these people should be suffering the way they are, there's no question that there shouldn't be some type of remedy already in place. I believe we are very close, very close to a settlement. But the numbers I've been hearing are abhorrent, abhorrently loved.

Can you tell me the level of harm? Can you give um, give us a snapshot as to why it is so difficult to take out these horrific pipes, and why that kind of construction infrastructure building has not been underway? Or am I wrong? Has it been underway? And it's just not it hasn't gotten everywhere yet. But I mean again, you bring up very good examples of cases that we look at and we say, how did that happen so quickly? Right?

Why was this expedite it? Why is it six years and we haven't seen massive infrastructure development happening to help these sick people? Okay, so well, it's obviously it's because the people there are poor and are people of color. And you know folks that get ignored the most are poor people, period, no matter what race. Right, If you don't have power, if you don't have the economic ability to support candidates and all of those things, you get ignored.

Now you add on to that issues around race, these around justice and all of that. Now there has been piecemeal work done. Part of the problem. I mean, if you really want to talk about the real, the real injustice and the real diabolical issue goes all the way back to General Motors. General Motors had a plan in Flint, and they were noticing that their engines were corroding. The engines that they were building were corroding, and they switched

water supply. They noticed that after Flint switched the water supply to the Flint River, their engine started corroding. They were like, we can't have corroding engines we're building, we're building parts. So they switched. They got their own water supply. But rather than actually notifying the community, rather than actually going out there and say, hey, there's a problem, that's all they did. And who knows who they told or

didn't tell. But then, knowing the engine's corroding but not the internal organs and systems of huge human beings, it's more concerned about the engine than the people. And that that's a shame. And clearly so was State and of of of Michigan, and clearly many other politicians and whoever's so you have all of that leading up, so now

you have an extreme lack of public trust. So even though folks have been told that they've switched back to the Detroit River water supply, they still have the same pipes in their house, and they know that there was corrosion with that other water supply. So just because of the different water supply, what makes me trusted? Now? I did get a text or I got a text from a woman named Ebony whose daughter has exema and the

water burnts her face. Okay, and her daughter's so, and it's a shame you talk about these and you hear that whatever all these stories to. Ultimately, the folks in Flint don't have zero trust in what they're being told. And so independently, you know, we've had some water testing done, we're doing what we can, but they have been piecemealing, taking up pipes and putting pipes back out. They haven't done it in all the houses. Part of the issue to me is is for not a huge comparatively amount

of money. I believe we ran the numbers that around seventy million dollars in terms of they could put whole house filtration systems in every home, so it would make it agnostic to what even the water supplied that was coming through the door is. Right, So at least you have a filtration system that's attached to your main waterline, it's treating and filtering the water that's coming through your whole house. And those are the types of things that

would engender public trust. But again those are the types of things that only get done in wealthy community these where people have the political power to increase the political will. You know, I'm interested to see what's going to happen

with this settlement as we're tracking the case. The other challenge we've been we've been having is getting people to sign up, because again it's like those studies where you shock a dog and they jump the first time you shock them, keep shock them, they keep jumping, But after a while you keep abusing them and shocking them and they stop jumping. Yeah, in Flint, I've had all these town halls and different things saying hey, let's sign up,

you know, sign up for this lawsuit. The more people are signed up, the more sense of message that this fund should be bigger. And folks are like why just because they I mean at some point in time, right, like you're saying, you you just give up, right, And it's and it's not, And it's not through the lack of trying and the anger and the screaming and the protest, and you know the amount of celebrities that come through. But at some point in time, right, like I have,

I am exhausted. I have exhausted every effort that I can put forward. And to that extent, hill, how do you get other celebrities like yourself, other folks that have the platform, have the means, have the bullhorn to be consistent with their work in Flint and not just doing what the gentleman had told you, popping in for the selfie, popping in for the hashtag and then going back to

their lives. And look, I appreciate you know, any bit of time, any bit of effort and money that people put in, but we know that consistency, especially in politics and policy, is what wins the game. Consistency, right, and consistent voice and bullhorn, even if you have to pass the baton. It is a relay race, a marathon times you know a million, So how do you get people to stay involved or come back? What do you do well, to be honest, you know, folks need an easy runway

to do this kind of work. I'll be honest because because celebrities are so called celebrities or people with platform, they're no different than anybody else. And for the most part, most people aren't doing You're like, most people are lazy as hell. Well, people doing what they want to do, which is take care of themselves and their family and out Once those bands start extending outwards, you'll do what

you can. You'll write a check, or maybe you put in a tie, you know, a church, or there's one part to care about that's more local or what have you. So I never begrudge to anybody for doing anything or

not doing anything. You know, I never begrudge that. But it's not you know, at the end of the day, I encourage people if if my whole thing is what makes your heart be faster, If you hear something when you read about it, or you hear about it and your heart starts to kind of and the hair on your back of your neck starts to stick up, that means you're passionate about it, and therefore follow that passion and do something around it, and then maybe you get

deeper because it happens organically. The flint. Me getting involved with flint happened organically. I didn't go searching out flint or a cause around water. It happened because the more I started to learn, the more of the hair stood up on my back of my neck, and the more mested I got. Because you started to see the level of injustice and just the level of harm. You know, there are people who bought houses for sixty five or

seventy thousand dollars. Their whole life savings went into that house, and now the house toreth five thousand dollars, you know, And so there's this old adage where people say it's expensive to be poor. These are the people that, you know, when when when the rest of America catches a cold, they catch the coronavirus, you know, they catch the foot yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, they aren't asymptomatic, you know, carriers. It is.

So that gets me, and so I can't do it all obviously, and people say, well, how come you're not over here there? This is I'm doing this And then and then I got because of this work. I got engaged in Newark because Newark has a lead poisoning problem. Right, No one's really talking about it. But the kids in New York are experiencing lead poison, okay, you know, And that's that's that's a real tricky thing because people are like, hey, there's a great African American mayor who has a history

of being an activist. How are you going to talk bad about the Newark situation. It's like, you just got to tell the truth, you know. I mean, if the kids have lead in their system, doesn't matter who, it doesn't matter who. Yeah, you gotta stop it. And so the so I think a lot of the activism, least for me, happens organically, and I think the same for everybody else. But part of it has to be an easy entree. So it has to be the first touch or the first touch point is like, hey, it's a

low lift, could you do this? And maybe they get engaged and get invited back and they get deep more deeper game. Just like what happened me at Flint. I got invited to an event that I did not put on. I decided to take the time to go because I cared about that community and I cared about the issue. But then once I got there, I got a little deeper.

You know, you have been involved in advocacy and activism since probably the beginning of your Hollywood career, right, Yeah, it started in college, so for me in college, so it just continued. It just became a part of my life. So it started college, then in grad school and then

just continue. And I know that you don't like to tell people what they should do, but but do you think that it is do you think that there is a responsibility specifically for you know, those in Hollywood that are people of color, that are black and brown folks that have made it to use their platforms to do more so then you know, um celebrate and uplift themselves. Like do you think you know there is a responsibility that is there or it should? It should? This just

be to each their own. Let me let me Okay, I'm of two minds and so and I know I know you're gonna be like, well, now I'll choose to I'm of two minds. One is I say, follow your heart, right, whatever your heart is, follow that. But but saying that, I know that if you're even a semi conscious black person in America, that your heart is telling you to get involved and be and use your platform to make some type of change, right, even if you're just even

relatively aware of the world. You know. That's why when you hear you know, and this is related to the last dance, when you hear something that's you know, come up again because of the documentary, you're Michael Jordan's say, even conservatives by shoes. I was not going to get involved in Jesse Houns versus Harvey Gant Senate race where Michael Jordan could have turned the tide for Harvey Gant

and to replace Jesse House. He was so popular in North Carolina that to have Michael Jordan come out for Harvey Ghant and the race was so close it even angers me to this day he would have the audacity to even defend that choice, because when you talk about the power of allowing abject racists to hold office because you need to make a little bit more money selling one more pair of shoes, shame on you man. That

it's it's it's not defensible. That's a shame. And and Harvey Gatt is somebody that my family has known for years. My grandfather had a pharmacy in a small town in South Carolina called It was called Piedmont Pharmacy. But the town was called Seneca, South Carolina. And I used to spend my summers there. It's about four miles from Clemson University. And they called him doctor. They called him Doc Hill. That's how I got my name, you know. He was

he was Dockhill, and my mother was Maryland Hill. And and I would spend summers there looking popsicles and and reading common books in the pharmacy. But Harvey Gamt was the first African American to desegregate Clemson. And he was called all types of n words and word go home signs everywhere. And on the weekends he would come stay in my family's place, Doc Hill's place, and became friends

with my parents and my aunt. And he's somebody who has represented a fight good for inclusion and justice his entire life. And for you, someone who has a platform to not be able to do. And it's a soft lift, man, I mean it was, Jessica. It literally it was what showing up in hand And yeah, some interviews soft lift And you're like, I'm not political, what what? No one's asking you to go out and talk about the President

United This is from North Carolina. This is a one state, one center race against two specific people, and you can't get involved. So that's part of my point. So I agree with you from the standpoint of absolutely there is a responsibility. But at the end of the day, I'm not telling you what you should be responsible for. But if if, if it's if it's clear and cut and dry and it's right there in front of your face and you don't do anything, then that that's your your

selfish mf and and that's all you are. Yeah, I mean, but that that's you know, and that that's kind of my feeling in general, which is that you know, and the world has changed a lot. Look, I'm not gonna tell uh Michael Jordan how he should have acted. Well, no, I would have because I you know, again, it was about money, right and at the end of the day, you know, when you think about like, you're not gonna take at all with you, right, Like at that point

he'd made a lot of money. So what you're gonna piss off white people for for what, you know, maybe maybe a year or maybe a cycle. They're still gonna buy your shoes. Michael Jordan, as great as he is, will never be considered the greatest athlete of all time like Muhammad Ali become because Muhammad Ali was literally willing to sacrifice his years in his entire career for people, and Michael Jordan wasn't even willing to sacrifice selling another

pair of shoes. It wasn't even the choices were you know, Muhammad Ali lost three years of his prime literally because he took a stance he would not allow himself to go shoot uh some Asian folks who never called him the N word, you know as he put it. So you know, it's it's a shame, you know, for that. I don't want to get bogged out on that because no, I mean no, no, no, but I down the more becomes a distraction. To be a distraction, you know, I don't think is I want people to do what's in

their heart. Yes, and and and if if what's really really really in your heart, I need to sell another pair of sneakers, then that's just you just got to lick yourself in the mirror and say, really, how did that mentality come in? You know, It's like if you told me, like I don't want to miss a game, like that's I'm a basketball player. I don't want to miss a game to go do a rally. I got you. That's that's what you do for a living. Don't miss

a game. But this is sounds sneakers is the reason you justify, you know, and and to your point, how much money do you need at the end of the day? I think, I mean, you know, honestly, at the end of the day, who's the bigger you know what I'm saying. Colin Kaepernick, you know, is arguably a bigger name now that he's act then he was then honestly than he was when he was gone. Yeah exactly. Yeah. Um, So before I let you go to questions, Uh, one, you

have letters to a young brother, manifest your destiny. Um, tell us a bit about that book and specifically now too, because you know, trying to manifest anything right in again in the midst of a global pandemic. We you know, these young people that are supposed to be graduating heading out into the world. You know, we're for the first time, we are not leaving a world that is great for young people to be inhabiting, right um, uh, to be

taking over. We're leaving them with climate change, We're leaving them with a wider racial wealth gap. We're leading, leaving them with a broken healthcare system, broken education system. So just talk a bit um about that book. Everybody feel better. I'm just honest. That's what I right, That's what I'm saying. That's why it's it's it's it's it's you have to laugh sometimes, because if you really don't in your years,

Oh I'll just cry all day. Yeah, there's that meme or whatever it is where they have I don't have you ever seen it, but it just makes me chuckle. Kermit the frog is talking to a little girl and she says, oh, you're a cookie monster, and then he cut to him throwing himself off a building. I've worked my whole life. I'm Kermit, you know. And you also saw me cookie, you know. So you gotta just the

safe they got, vitel, whatever it is. We we have all these ills, but the beautiful thing is we still have breath in our body and life and ability to think, and we can do this together, y'all. I truly believe that. I really believe that as people get more conscious and more enlightened about their power, understanding their power, we are

we are powerful together. But but there have been forces at Bay and social media and technology has been used just like propaganda back in the day, to divide people, to divide us and make us think that our interests are are different. It's not true. And so we have to do more. We work together, and and and and and really work hard together, we can solve many of those problems you just talked about. That is my That

is my hope. That is my hope. So the final question that I always ask people that join PM mood is this, how do you get in the mood to change the world. I breathe, I read, I opened my ears, and listen to the people who actually number one already know the answers. We don't have to go into any community and solve a problem for somebody. They already know

the answers in their community. We just have to listen and then help them get the leverage or power that they need to get the resources to implement the solutions. So and then I have to energize. So breathe, suld center, read, educate and understand, listen to the people, and then get

the energy required to make a change. The reason why I always reference physics is that I truly believed when you talk about physics that you know, the only way to move a mass that is stuck or in stasis is with an equal or greater amount of energy to the mass. Right. If we're talking about solving big problems, we need big energy to do it. And and and I'll say this quite honestly, and and and and somewhat sadly, is that the people who have completely antithetical values to

myself have out energized most of us. They talk louder, Yeah, they they out energy you. They lie more, tall, louder, and bully you and push you around. And we have let it happen. We've allowed it to happen, and we've tried to come no, let's just be conciliatory. We had eight years of conciliatory behavior in sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue and basically everything that's that was passed during that time is gone. Yeah, that's a deep and judges are gone.

They they they have out energy, out of energy. Um, good people, and it's time for those of us that I did a talk at at a retreat called Mind Body Green, called Revitalized, where I called it now my stay m F. I won't say it on here, but now I'm a stay you can. I'm gonna stay, motherfucker. And and that's what the title of speech was. I said, you know, there's a lot of us walking around saying, now my stay going to yoga class. Oh yes, I

blessed the God, and you be spiritual, be strong. But while someone else is just like Malcolm said, put that knife in your back nine inches. If they pull it out three that's that's not progress. So it's time to I don't mind the now my stay because that centers you. I need to breathe, and we need to let people's blood pressure come down what they need to be healthy. So and the Noma stay is great. But after you don't then my stay get up and say hmm no, no,

this ain't gonna work. We're gonna do it this. I'm not gonna let you, you know, punch me in the face right, left and center. Just like you mentioned that the Governor's legislative, you got people showing up there with gums, being aggressive, chasing down reporters, you know, coughing on people, doing all these aggressive things. All that is, if you want to boil down, is energy. Energy, and I'm not saying it's energy directed in a very certain aggressive type

of way. I'm saying, you don't have to be that type of energy, but you have to match that level of energy. Yes, you know you say that, and I'll just say this, you know, is that when Michelle Obama said when they go low, we go high. My feeling, you know, was more on the Eric Holder side. When they go low, kick them in the knees, like when they you know what I'm saying, like, you can't. You know, you cannot rationalize the behavior that we've been seeing exhibited

over the last three and a half years. You cannot rationalize it. You can't ignore it. But you have to match it. To your point, you have to match energy with energy because the belief that we have that this is all just going to go away, right, it isn't right. And so you know what we do now to dig in and to restore and to reenergize is really going to be what makes what makes our future or breaks up. And to your point, this has been going on a

long time. This is the organization around putting the mechanisms in place of what we're seeing right now has been going on a long time. There was a guy that I was in Harvard Law School with who I'm not going to say his name, but he would go away to these conservative I always had arguments with him in class over policy and all sorts of things, and he

would always go away. But we were, you know, outside, we were cordial and he would ob would say, man, where you going to say, oh, man, I got a meeting, And he'd be going to these meetings in Boston with different think tank groups literally plotting how they're going to Jerrymander eight overt State House, Ye legislature. I mean, this

sup court system didn't happen like magical. This has been energized planning a blueprint and then also certain things the use of technology that they didn't even anticipate before to to to actually heighten the your ability to spread message and get in galvanized support, so through lies, through mis misinformation and all those things. So we have to match. It doesn't have to be the exact same way, but

they have to match the energy and the amplification. Hill Harper, thank you so much, Thank you so much for the work that you do. Thank you so much for joining me on PM mood Um and I hope that you can continue to keep up your energy because we need your passion, your grace, um and your work to continue. So thank you. I'm not going to stop, Please don't. I keep doing shows like these discussions is so important. I believe in it. It's what I can do, and it's what I do do, so I will continue. Thank

you so much. Stay safe out there, all right, thanks so much. Thanks for listening to this week's PM Mood. My political podcast, woke AF Daily is on Patreon for just five dollars a month. That's five new hour long shows every week for just five dollars a month. Join the conversation now at patreon dot com slash woke AF and you can continue listening to PM Mood every week

absolutely free. Now more than ever, we see the importance of independent media, so thank you for your support, and as always, stay in the PM mood to change the world.