Democrats' Fake Outrage

what do I mean by that. I mean that we're not bought or sold by corporate interests, right whose interests are ratings above the sanctity and the preservation of our democracy. You see, as I'm watching the news come out with regard to what is it that Democrats are going to do about codifying the right to an abortion in this country, which,

by the way, is nothing. They're not going to do a fucking thing, just like they're not going to do anything about voting rights, just like they're not going to do anything about police reform. Just like as they can see and as was uttered out of the President's mouth,

this is not where Republicans are ending. They are starting with abortion, and then they are going to attack every single constitutional right that we have been able to achieve over the last fifty to sixty years in this country, which, mind you, is pretty much every civil right that was given to everyone that was not six white straits and mail. Okay, So the reality here is that the media is complicit

in the demise of our democracy. I say this all the time because they have an obligation right to awaken the American people to the truth, to inform them of the truth, right so that we have an informed citizenury that can make decisions about who it is that they want to choose to be representative of their voice, right

of the issues that matter to them. But instead of us focusing on the fact that, for the first time in American history, we are not about the expansion of rights in this country, we are about the rescinding thereof That means that everything in this country is on the table, and we are still fucking sitting around talking with and two Republicans as if they are a legitimate, fucking political party instead of an authoritarian regime that is chopping at

the bit to get power which they will never relinquish. Elections are a fucking suggestion to them when you start to idolize people like Putin and Orbon and MBS and others. You are saying all of the things that we need to know by virtue of your support for these people, you do not believe in the foundational principles of democracy. Now, I am the first person to say that America is an imperfect, imperfect fucking place, that there is nothing that

is perfect or should be admired about our democracy. That we have better ideology, ideology and theoretical beliefs around our democracy than we actually do the practice of said democracy. But given that, even given that each generation has had an obligation to bend the arc further towards justice, and what Republicans have signified with this move and they're rapid Republicans on the Supreme Court, which they stacked because they stole seats, But they stole seats from people who didn't

want to call out the thievery. So if you make no real big uproar about Mitch McConnell against the Constitution and denying a sitting president the ability to seat federal judges as well as a Supreme Court justice, if you just allowed that shit to slide, then don't turn around and be shocked that the very people who stole from you, right in front of your fucking face, then turn around and say that we're going to start checking off of our list how we turn America into an apartheid fucking state.

Why are people acting shocked? Why am I hearing things from the likes of Lisa Murkowski and fucking Susan Collins about how dismayed they are. Bitch, sit down, go clutch your pearls someplace else. Because you see, we all knew

who Brett Kavanaugh was. You know why, because doctor Christine Blaisie Ford told us who Brett Kavanaugh was, and Brett Kavanaugh told us who he was when he was screaming right in the face, spitting, showing any thing but the dignity, right and grace that an actual Supreme Court justice should show, which is what Judge Brown Jackson showed us a couple

of months ago during her confirmation hearings. So why is it now that Republican women are turning around and saying, oh my god, I had no idea that these people would lie under oath. You supported a president that lied from the podium every day. You supported a president that cleared out Lafayette Square so that he could go and pose with a book that he doesn't read in front of a church that he doesn't attend. You stood by

the liar in chief that asked for protesters. You know that First Amendment the right to assemble to be shot in the leg or in the foot. Can't you just shoot him? Though? So, why is it now that you want to turn around and you want to act like

a fucking leak out of the Supreme Court? Is the biggest problem that we have, where in fact, the biggest problem that we have is fucking apathy in this country is the fact that we continue to support and watch a media apparatus that legitimizes the cult that is the Republican Party, that we're not talking about the fact that abortion is where they start and not where they end, and that by virtue of people like Marjorie Taylor Green using conjuring up the name of Satan right saying that

these people, the Democratic Party and our leaders are pedophiles. Right, where do you think that this is going to go? It is going to go towards violence, and then they are going to justify that violence by saying that they are warriors for the Christian faith. And that we need to just beat the gay out of these people, We need to beat the progressivism out of them, we need

to beat right them into submission. These are the same people, descendants of the same people that use the Bible in order to justify slavery, the torture and the terrorism directed at black people in this country that still persists. So why is it that they turn around now and the media is going to legitimize their shock as if they didn't know what the fuck they were doing and weren't complicit in it. I'm tired of the lies, folks, I really am. I'm tired of the lies. I'm tired of

the euphemisms. I'm tired of the mincing of words. Republicans want one thing and one thing only, and that is power. And when they get it, when they steal it, they are never going to let it go again. Like I said in my article for the Daily Beasts with regard to Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the asking by Obama of her to retire, what I said there is that you do not get a second bite at this apple, so you better make the bite that you take really fucking

deep and big. But the reality is is that Democrats do not have that kind of energy. The energy that we saw from Senator Elizabeth Warren. That's not the energy that we've seen come out of Biden and come out of Kamala Harris's mouth. Oh, the Vice President wanted to say that she is outdone right by the fact that these that this court would take away the rights of women. You have known that this is coming down the pike. You knew that this case was up. But then when

we turn around and we say, what's the fucking strategy? Oh, well, elections have consequences. Well, guess what. We had a historic turnout in twenty twenty. So you're telling me that even though we had a historic turnout in the midst of a fucking pandemic before there were even vaccinations available, you want to tell me now that elections have consequences. I'm still looking for the consequences that insurrections should have. Dude,

that does that have consequences? Are No? I just did a hit where you know we're talking about what are the issues that matter to the American people? I don't know. How about truth? How about believing and trusting and having faith in our governmental agencies to do what it is that they say that they are supposed to do. How about having faith that when you do things that are wrong, like violently try and overturn your country's election, that you

are persecuted to the highest extent of the law. Except No, We're more concerned with folks inside of the Supreme Court that want to alert the public to what is coming down the pike as opposed to what insurrectionists did in broad daylight and face no consequences for We have report and report and headline after headline talking about all of the egregious ways that Donald Trump and his acolytes went to extreme lengths to try and overturn this election. As

Don Trump Junior said, we have all the paths to power. Again, I say, where are the consequences for this? Who is been indicted? I'm told no one cares about the insurrection anymore, Damielle.

They care about kitchen table issues. Well, your kitchen table issues won't fucking matter when you're being chained to your home because you can't get an abortion, when you're being told that you can actually work because you were queer, when you're no longer able to receive the benefits of being married because you're in the same sex relationship, when you are being denied access to federal benefits because now we're going after interracial marriage, when your kid is not

going to be able to get the kind of education that they need because oh, guess what, we're going back to segregating schools that have nothing to do with equity. This is where all of this is headed. This is not hyperbole. And Democrats are sitting around staring up at the sky like they didn't know this was fucking coming, and as if they didn't know who they were dealing with. But how could they because they don't identify the villain.

They don't call these people out. They keep trying to call them fucking in, call you into what and so that you can shit in the Capitol building again, in so that maybe this time the guilty and that you bill will actually be successful in hanging the vice president of the United States, Like, what the fuck are we doing here? You want to talk to me about kitchen

table issues. I want to talk to you about places who were once democratic that are no longer, countries that are riddled with fear and anxiety and depression, where only the richest of the rich are doing well and everyone else is living in some version of the fucking Hunger Games meets the Handmaid's Tale. That's where the fuck this is headed. But once again Democrats seem to be caught

off guard, folks. Coming up in today's show, I'm really excited to welcome to the show for the first time Kaivon Shroff, who is a Democratic commentator, and he's going to talk to us about the use of social media with you know, platforms like TikTok, Instagram and others, and how we get our message out and what it is that he thinks that Democrats should be doing to rile up our base. That conversation is coming up next, folks.

I am so excited to welcome to the show for the very first time Kaivon Stroff, who is a Democratic strategist and commentator who I discovered on TikTok. But we're in the tweets together as well. Let's start with the disaster and catastrophic political climate that we are living in. You cover a lot of the same topics that I cover here on the show on Woke app and so I want to talk first about McCarthy this week. Kevin McCarthy pretty much is I think that Kevin McCarthy may

flip flop more than a pancake. I think that he may flip flop more than like I do in the summer because the way in which these tapes that the New York Times reporters have been, you know, kind of drip drip dripping out. And I'll talk about journalistic integrity in a minute, because I believe that those tapes should have been released before before they wanted to use the contents of it to hawk a book. But what did you make of his reception by the Republican Congress post

these tapes coming out? He walked into a standing ovation, right exactly. And I think it's honestly, it's nothing new, and it's just the latest example. And I know you talk about this a lot of Democrats constantly wanting to have this good faith change and engagement and political discourse and like the other party is so far beyond that and it's not even on the table. And so I think it's yet again, you know, the shamelessness that that's

present there. And also I think it's it's sort of an indictment of the media because you know, they're also playing this role in not effectively communicating what is happening in this moment, and to your point, maybe even you know, playing a role in covering it up and perpetuating it. You know, I think we're having a crisis moment in democracy, but it's very directly related to an industry crisis that

the media has been having for many years now. You know, I can recall, and I've said this before on the show. I can recall being on MSNBC walking the halls of MSNBC and people telling me, you know, Trump is so bad for the country. He's great for writings, though our numbers have never been higher. And so when you are faced with the I guess it is the like the siren call of integrity is what gets me to do my show in the way that I do it every

single day. But when you are part of these you know, media conglomerates who are addicted to ratings, It's where they get their sponsors from, it's where they get their money from. What should what do you think they should be doing? Or is it the responsibility of folks who go on air right to bring to light the fact that we

shouldn't be having both sides conversations. We shouldn't be referring to the Republican Party as if it is worthy of being an ideological adversary when they have turned themselves into pretty much a cult. Absolutely. Actually, I'm so glad you asked this because I'm in the midst of a big research project for a program at Harvard where I'm studying.

You know, what I am going to argue is the shift of incentives for media in the past few decades, and I think one of those big shifts has been social media and the change in it's about integrity, but it's also about who's called to be a journalist. Like when I was in high school and growing up, you know, we were raised like that was a public facing role

with like you know, almost a civic duty. And today I feel like the goal is to become social media famous and get a book deal and then go talk about your book deal on cable news, and all the incentives that come along with that aren't good for the truth, they're not good for democracy. And I think also they draw the wrong people into media and journalism and then you know, it perpetuates, So I think that's part of

the problem. I also think, you know, the function of the media typically is to be that fourth the state that's you know, the check on our government and powerful people. And now you know, there's so much overlap in the

media and elitism and power that who's checking them? And I think, you know, it's a difficult issue because I'm sure people that are on Twitter like us, you know, I've been following the backlash to that political story where they call Vice President Harris Kamala and you know, debating the sort of you know, institutional sexism and racism that might be reflected in something like that, and the fact that it keeps happening across organizations again and again, right like,

this is not a one off, um, And so I do think that, you know, that's a huge part of the issue. You know, it's so funny because and I you know, I commented on the political story because I was like, what the hell is this? Was anybody you know at Politico referring to Mike Pence as Mike right when he was when he was vice president? No, they weren't.

And so to have a title of an article that goes through several layers of approval before it goes up to have nobody question right like that that that I don't even want to say that it is casualness, because I actually think that it was done as a dig. How how did it land for you? Did it land as something that was done as a dig? Or was it casual writing? I think so. As part of my research for this product, I've actual been talking to a few reporters who I respect and asking questions like how

does a failure of this nature occur? And how does it occur so often? And you know, I think they really are missing it to some extent, you know, I think that it's truly a people problem because that lack of diversity that you know, like you wouldn't need a protocol in place to catch that issue if you just had a diverse staff, because they would have the background and lived experience to catch it right away. They would see it right away. Like when I'm reading the story,

I see it right away. When you're reading the story, you see it right away. So who isn't at political or whatever organization to catch that already? You know? And then I think it triggers this really dangerous cycle, which is that what form of accountability is there not one? So what does the public do? We yell on Twitter?

We have a huge backlash and then the media feels attacked and because they don't quite get it, they want to respond and they want to you know, like I saw whatever some exchange, like some Democrat I think someone journalist from Politico called out that, you know, like Democrats had used Kamalaine an email or something like that, and the person that everyone's responding like, it's not the same.

You're the media, you have a specific role. Other people have a different role, right, So, like we need some other way to check people other than screaming online because I do honestly think it's not that effective to some extent, Like I'm glad again called out because we need to educate more and more people to understand what's why is it a problem. But I do think that's missing into me. One of the solutions, in an honest conversation would be

media checking each other. And you know, they don't want to do that. I feel like there's this complicity where it's like their team journalism against not against the people, I want to say, but to some extent it is against the people because it's like if I seed here that you know so and so from this media outlet did something wrong. The next time the Twitter mop comes around, They're not going to depend to me. But what if we all just did a better job? You know, Like

I don't know, isn't that on the table? You know? I let's talk about Twitter for a moment as well, because I've been raging against Elon Musk now for at least two weeks, and you know, because my feeling is that Twitter, the advent of Twitter was about creating a digital town hall space. Right, we know that Twitter is also a very toxic place filled with lots of trolls.

Some of the things that people say in the comment is saying comments and post they would never say to somebody's face, right, it is bio And particularly if you're a woman, if you're a queer woman like I am, if you're a black woman, that kind of hyper vitriol also happens as well, with Elon Musk saying that the reason why he wants to buy Twitter is to increase free speech, to have a full on free speech space. What do you hear when you hear somebody like Elon

must talk about free speech? Yeah, so I think it goes hand in hand when I hear the sort of if we're pissing everybody off, which he just said yesterday, Right the left and the right, we're doing something right. And this idea of like some you know, catchall free speech definition that I think, you know, they have a very limited working understanding of what free speeches in this country is. It sounds like you're walking into a freshman

political science seminar, honestly, and it's embarrassing. I mean, this guy, you know so much more. You should have so much deeper insight into these issues if you care. And I do feel like also there's this like urge that somehow society has again probably driven by some of our you know, non diverse institutions, to call people like Elon Musk or even Jack Dorsey a genius. It's like these people had one skill they have like a very technical, very sort

of you know, hard skill. They don't know how to design social systems. They don't know about you know, politics and democracy and how to design a platform. Like they're just free wheeling here. Like so, I don't know why we would ever defer to this group of individuals to make these decisions. And I do think that, you know, I tweeted out and like I was actually like surprised.

I'm you know, doing a bunch of work and just was like distracted from Twitter for a little bit, put out a tweet saying, you know, Twitter's gonna get worse for minorities and women. When Elon Musk stakes over because of the things he said, right like, if you're going to stop content moderation, obviously things that were being moderated will stop being moderated. A lot of the things being moderated, we're attacks on minorities and women. And then the backlash

thousands of comments. You know, I think it's so ironic because it's like why, why does me saying that drive you crazy? And also you know, like I know you use Twitter to get your message out. I'm using Twitter to talk to people and share ideas that like are on team sane, team want to get things done. Yeah, Like I'm not even trying to like something like if a bench Shapiro or somebody's engaging me, Like, I'm not

trying to engage that. I'm trying to like talk to my people who want to listen and have discussions and maybe disagree on some you know, things within a range of reasonableness. But you know, I'm not there to convince some quan On conspiracy theorist of anything. And I think there's also this level of white mail privilege in that like debate me meme of like you know, everyone wanting AOC or whoever to debate them. It's like, I don't know you a debate. I don't know you a conversation.

Like you're not even doing the bare minimum here. You are yelling at me online like in response to something that it's not even addressed to you. So you know, yeah, I find it very odd. I do think, and I know you know you're also on TikTok now, and I've been experimenting there. I think I do notice a little bit of a difference. You know, people aren't as willing to go as crazy or say, you know, as intense things because you're on video and you're recording it and

you are sort of having that human element. And I think that's a very interesting transition that we might see happening more and more as to continues to dominate. Yeah, and you know, I do. I think TikTok for me, and I've been telling the audience here at woke af you know, if you aren't following on TikTok, you should because initially, um I will say I am older than the TikTok than the TikTok audience or who I perceived

the TikTok audience to be. So when folks were like, Danielle, you should take you know, you should take pieces, you know, bite pieces of your show and put it up on TikTok, and I was just like, do you think thirteen year olds care about politics? I mean I did when I was thirteen, but I was a weirdo. So I was like, you know, what do you find How how have you changed I guess or maybe you haven't, or how have you adapted your Twitter conversation and like repertoire to this

TikTok landscape? And what drove you there? Right? Like, you're at Harvard, you're finishing your you know, your your your research. There you're in like these elite spaces and circles. What drew you to a space that was deemed you know, for for teens and twins? Yeah, of course, you know. So actually it's very similar to what drew me to Twitter. So I went to Brown for undergrad. I then got

my mba Yale. These very sort of elite I think, you know, like there is a bubble sense to these spaces, and also this idea that these tools that are taking over democracy should not be considered seriously or they're not academic,

and I just fundamentally disagreed with that. So I felt like there was a lot of the time rare and really actually went to business school hoping that I could study how, you know, big datas in these civic tech tools could kind of you know, bridge divides and lower barriers to conversation, and of course it hasn't really gone that way, but um, that's what drew me to it. And then I got really interested in the twenty sixteen

campaign because I was a big Hilo supporter. Um, I don't know where you were on that, but I M but you know, yes. But anyways, so right, like coming out of Brown, very liberal area, and all my friends online were like very different Bernie, and there was so much internet content because like that's the generation that knows how to make a meme and what to tweet and

all that stuff. But I actually knew that there was this group of like fervent Hillary supporters, typically like older women who were online and a lot of people get their news online and they're reading it and they might not be producing content, but they're they're consuming it, and so like I want to create content that you know,

they could resonate with and people like that. So you know, I just started putting stuff out there and eventually, like I feel like you learn, right, like what what conversations do people want to have? And it's the same on TikTok, like which I again think you know a lot of people that are on Twitter or older are very nervous about TikTok and you're there worsom dating I guess so found out right that like Facebook was funding Republican lobbyists

to push some of that narrative. Um. But anyways, you know, I think like when I have my little cousins come to me with like something that's either like not necessarily true or you know, something they learned on TikTok, I'm like, wow, this is a powerful tool. Um. They're people are getting so much information from here, whether it's good information or bad information. So I thought it was interesting to be on there, and you know, to try to put stuff

out there. And frankly, you know, there's a huge incentive in that. The reach is insane, Like I it's so crazy doing Twitter for years, and I think I have you know, like one hundred thousand plus followers or something like that minus thumb given the recent days whatever, something happen. But you know, on TikTok, like I put out, I'm

kind of a newbie. Millennial dams follow us. But um, you know, you get millions of views on you know, a video without much of a following, and so the algorithm and just the access is so much greater the potential. So that's what's pretty intriguing about it. Yeah, and I find I found the same reason the reasons that you provided to when I was being convinced right um, to go onto TikTok and like really, you know, just play around. They're like, don't take yourself so seriously. You know you

will figure out like your rhyme and rhythm. But see what is going out there. I was so shocked. I was shocked by, you know, the spiritual content that comes up in my feed. I'm shocked by the political content and how thoughtful it is, because I just thought that it was really bad dances and bullshit, right like, And I think that as we are seeing, you know, these spaces pop up if we are if we are committed to democracy, and part of being committed to democracy is

educating the public. Then you have to go where the public is right. We can't just you know, say to ourselves and you know, like, oh, I'm gonna pooh pooh that and stay within my bubble to your earlier point, because then we're just talking to each other. I don't need to convince a bunch of folks at Harvard and Yale, you know, who are who are who are democrats like

about what's going on. I need to convince people who basically stop watching the news or have opted out of you know, out of the political discourse because it's become too toxic. But if they see a sixty second or a thirty second video on TikTok, they're like, oh shit, you're right, you know, like it's something well. And also I think like two things, Like one, that's the reason, like I'm not going to be leaving Twitter no matter who's owning it or whatever, because we have to change.

Oh good, I'm happy. And then second, you know, I think it's also like it's not just like about convincing other people that aren't in these places, it's about learning from them too, you know, like I feel like so many times on Twitter, I will gain perspective from whether it's a couple of hours that comment in responses something nic say or whatever, and I'll be like, you know, well maybe I'll rethink that, or you know, wow, like this is really resonating with people, and this other thing

that I thought like was super important people cared a lot about, Like maybe isn't resonating as much, and like that's just like instant data and feedback. And I do think that like one thing, unfortunately, that Democrats aren't as strong again and like I love that viral you know video of that local senator for Michigan, but yes, yeah, go on, and you know that was going on offense

in a speech in person. But I do also think, you know, there's a way to within the bounds of you know, reasonable discourse, operationalize these tools in a much more effective way, Like don't be just putting out pictures and graphics with like you know, bubble words and whatever. Like engage. You know, Republicans really do engage. And I think like, obviously they're doing things that I wouldn't recommend, you know, Democrats do that, I do think across the line.

But like why aren't they superstars on you know, across social media. It should be. So you know, that's interesting too that you talk about the superstars, because I think that you know, I have all long been advocating for Democrats to take a page out of republicans playbook, but for good right, like, we don't have to make up stories, We don't have to make up lies. The facts are on our side. But hitting people over the head with

your bullet points is not selling right. Part of the other work that I do is I do media training for a lot of democratic organizations, nonprofit organizations, movement leadership and what have you. And I keep telling folks like I need you to tell compelling stories. I need to

hear anecdotes. I don't need to. If one more fucking person tells me that eighty percent of Americans are on the side on the side of row, I will scream because it doesn't matter that eighty percent of Americans believe in abortion when we're going to lose abortion in the when the decision comes down in June, it doesn't matter. And so yeah, no, go ahead, because talk to me about how you tell like, how you tell stories, how you're taking these headlines but you're not just giving people

the facts, you're saying more than that. Well, also, I think there's like it's part of this conversation of the short term versus the long run, and I feel like Democrats are always like coming to this logic of like, oh, well, I learned that whatever school that like in the long run,

doing this is that for democracy. But it's like, we're about to lose the whole democracy, so you better focus on the short run because it's not tip for tad at this point that you know, if you do this in four years when Republicans control all branches, they might do it back. It's like we're not going back, you know. If we're not gonna get we're not going to get another's.

And like, by the way, mid terms, Like I don't understand like there should be daily freaking out about what's going to happen in midterms one way or the other, frankly, because we need to win that Like it should be no question, no debate, Like and are there things that I think Biden should be doing? Absolutely? Are there things

that the Democrats should be doing? And like, while we even you know, sort of criticize some of the tactics, Democrats are using here like everybody listening, go make a plan to vote for Democrats right now, you know, like it doesn't matter at some point, like yes, what I wish there was more energy, And do I think we have better people and better options to be filling some

of these roles. Absolutely, but Team good and Team bad right now are so far apart, Like I can't even begin the conversation, you know, about somebody not voting, you know, and really not voting the Democrats, Like that's what we're voting on in midterms. You know. Somebody had said to me in a comment I think it was earlier this week on Twitter where they were like, you know, here you have Donald Trump, you have his acolytes like Ron de Santis who are coming up right behind him, who

are savvier, right, but just as vile. And there's a bench of these people, right. The mini de Santis is that they have all around they are building a bench, right and have been. What is it? Why don't you think that Democrats build a bench. Why is it that I'm hearing right in the in the twitter Ville that Bernie Sanders hasn't taken running for president off the table yet, And I'm like bitch, you're this is who is asking

for that? And also like and again I do think like that is one where I'll say, like I think the media plays a role because why is that a headline? Nobody cares? Like who asked him the question? Like he probably wasn't even ready or response because it's such a stupid question and it's like game playing, Like we're not playing games right now, We're trying to save the democracy.

So like, if you are a journalist and I think it was like you know, a pretty big outlet too write that led within whether it was the Hell or something like that, Yeah, you know, like you're literally just being a troll and you want people to click this and you want people to share that, and like, I don't know. Then like that's if first of all, I think we have to be a lot less giving. We

have to say, these are how people are acting. Let's take them at their work, right, So if the media is ridiculous, we have to take them at their word and say, all right, well you want to be trolls, So then we aren't gonna you know, afford you this sort of level of grace and um, you know, this very deferential way we've been treat the media for so long, so I think it's you know, frustrating to see absolutely,

But I do think another issue. I'm watching this Pennsylvania race, right, this Pennsylvanias Albania Senate race, and I think, you know, in a different world, and I don't want to, you know, like get into the policy specifics necessarily, but just like bocusing on the architects and personalities that we're seeing, Like to me, Malcolm Kenyata would be a superstar in the Republican Party, like somebody with that ability and talent, Like

they've got Madison Cawthorne over there that they're celebrating, Like this guy is like five hundred times better, smarter, like legit And why why isn't that somebody that like we can coalesce around it. And I think it's because people are so afraid to take a chance, to take a risk. But it's actually not a risk because we've seen I think, how you know, the same old, same old has gone

and it hasn't gone well, and it hasn't excited next generation. Now, I do think young people, um, we're very vocal online but haven't necessarily shown up at the polls in the way that we should be to be demanding that credibility, and I think we'll do that level. You know, it's our future to inherit, and you know, decisions should be made very much with us in mind, and we should be showing up to make those decisions. So I do think that's a little bit of an issue for us.

But I absolutely agree with you. I think that, you know, the way that Republicans focus on rising stars is not happening for us. And I think also part of it is because Republicans fall in line really quickly, so your rising stars are really willing to say whatever and do whatever. And so to the extent, that's the issue. Like I'm proud that Democrats aren't going to, you know, like just foot flop and say whatever Kevin McCarthy tells them do or whoever is you know, in charge and in control

and apologize for this or not. But I do think that is one dynamic at play, yeah, Because I mean, when I look at the defensiveness within our own party with regard to the squad right, you would think that you would lift up these firebrands, these young people of color, and say like this is our future, and you would make them stars, right, instead we we we they shake

their finger at them. Instead, they tell them that, oh, you're the reason why we lose on legislation, and I'm like, no, that would be Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema's job as to why we don't have things that pass. It is not these young bright stars that you're actually afraid of. But you see the right embracing the Lauren Boberts, the Cawthorns and MG and and Marge and like even like even for us. And I don't know, do you watch

Rupau's Drag Race. I don't, but I watched the clips, But go ahead, Okay, it's okay, I will still tell you might feel like I'll still tell my story, but I think it's such a good analogy. Which is so if you remember our crazy primary we had like twenty plus people running, yes, brutpause drag Race, they managed to run this reality show where even the biggest losers, the person gets off season season one, you know, episode one is made a star. Like they talk about that person,

they bring them out. They everybody knows that person's name, you know, And so why can't we do the same thing with the twenty candidates running for president. You know it should be you know, a win for everybody and part of a conversation where like Democrats are loving this from this person and this person had a great Bible moment and we celebrate that, and you know, this is the person that ultimately won the nomination. But this is

our team, this is our party, and everybody wins. And I think that's really the model that we have to shift to. And it happens to sync with what's happening in the world right now, which is that reality teaming model. And if drag Race can do it, I think the Democratic Party can do it. Um. So that's I love it. Kivan. You must come back to willke f. This has been so fun and like, honestly, I think that people like yourself are absolutely the present and the future of the party.

And I just I need for there to be more right, Like I need more more people, more energy, Like I want to see my TikTok and my Twitter feeds filled with people with passion and who are thoughtful about what is going on. Because I'm actually as the same thing that you just said about RuPaul's drag race and the Democrats. I think about people on television and I'm like, where are the next stars? Like we're still bringing out James Carville. It was also it's it's it's ridiculous. But thank you

so much for making time you so much. Would love to come back and I'll follow you on TikTok in the meantime. Appreciate you. That is it for me today. Friends at wok f as always power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.