Commodification and Assault

advocate Tik Milan. You know, I have had throughout my many many years as an activist, as an advocate, as a policy wonk, have had a of hate relationship with Pride and because of the capital list nature of it, right what I'm finding and we're seeing it right now with Juneteenth, Juneteenth becoming a federal holiday means that corporations want to dig their hands into how they can make money right off of the something that is about the sanctity of our freedom as black people and the travesty

that Juneteenth, even as a holiday, needed to exist because it was the last of the enslaved Africans that would hear of their freedom. Right and now you have fucking corporations turning around and making ice cream and T shirts to sell back to the very communities that they extract from, right,

and so with pride. You know, I when I first came out, I was so excited to attend, you know, my first Pride per raid, my first Pride parties because you know, as a young queer person, and the times are different now, but I just want to imagine, you know, bring you back to a time and imagine what it was like before there was marriage equality, before you saw you know, corporations lifting up rainbow flags, before you know, you had politicians even uttering the world gay or lesbian.

You know, I grew up in a time where Donas don't Tell was hailed as progressive, right. I grew up in a time when you know, Ellen DeGeneres had lost her job because she came out and said that she was gay and on the cover of a magazine and then you didn't hear from her for well over a decade. So when that is the kind of imagery that's being reinforced to you, you know, through acts of policy, through

your church, through your community. The whole idea around Pride was to take you from a place of being invisible to visibility, take you to a place where the world is telling you that you should be ashamed of who you are, of who you love, of your humanity right,

that you are an embarrassment and an abomination. You know, the other day I said that there was a self proclaimed Christian fascist mob that rolled up on a gay bar in the gay neighborhood of Dallas, Texas, and that one of those disgusting house members, Lauren Bobert, you know, the one that wants to wheeld around her nine millimeter gun, had the audacity to tweet and say that those kids shouldn't be at a you know, be at a drag bar, be at pride celebrating with their families. They should be

at church. Bitch. I don't know if you haven't seen what has happened to the church over the past twenty fucking years. You mean, all of the pedophilia and actual grooming that has been done at the hands of religious figures who were given children as a way to guide and love them and didn't. And then come to find out that Lauren Boubert's own fucking disgusting ass husband serve time in prison for what you ask, will let me tell you. Come to find out he exposed himself to

a group of teenage girls at a bowling alley. Don't believe me, go ahead and google it. So what comes up for me is that these people who have the audacity to tell queer people that we should be ashamed, that we should be the ones that are kept away from civilized society because we are the ones that are

harming children. Well, I want you to pull back the fucking cloak, right and look under what it is that these people actually stand for and who they stand with, like the Matt gates Is of the world right, like the Jeffrey Epsteins of the world Daily Coast has done. I think maybe now they're in their forty part series of sexual abusers, pedophiles and harassers that have been charged

and convicted within the Republican Party. So I say all of that to say that we are at a time going back to a really dark time in our society where the LGBTQ community, particularly trans people, have been made a target of the right, and we are being forced during our Pride month and celebration to be worried about our safety, to be worried about whether or not our children are going to be able to be safe talking

about their families, their community, in their schools, right. And so I have this love hate relationship with pride now once again because I see the commodification of it right without any of the integrity behind it. I see these corporations that are so quick to rainbow up their websites and you know, and their Twitter feeds and all of these things, but then they give money to the Lauren Beaubert's, the Donald Trump's and the Matt Gates is of the world.

So I'm like, you can't have it both ways. So I would love it for all of us for pride to go back to a space where it originated from, which was there is the society at large that has deep problem with people owning who they are and challenging the fucking status quo. And because of that right, they are trying to force us back into the closet, to

criminalize our very existence. And so this month, in speaking with so many bold, brilliant queer people, I just want to remind all of us, you know what pride is really about. And sure it is about the fucking glitter and the thongs and the music and the rainbows and the good time, because that is our way of saying fuck you to heteronormativity, of saying fuck you to those who tried to coerce us right into believing that there

was something wrong with us. And so I want, as you know, we are seeing the continued commodification, the continued assault against the trans community in general, right that all of us, whether you are a part of the queer community or an ally, used this month as an opportunity to learn more right about our origins, to learn more about how you can be and active ally. And it doesn't just mean attending a Pride parade right or going

to a Pride event. It means that we are under assault once again, that we are being placed with targets on our back, stuffed and put back into a closet. And so if you have a platform or in a position of power to offer your voice, then please, please, I urge you to do so. Coming up next, my

conversation with my friend, activist model author Tiq Milan. The Damage Report with John Idarola is one of the most popular shows on the TYT Network that serves as your daily breakdown of the genuine threats and challenges facing our country and world. These days, we're confronted with an overwhelming

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I am very happy to be joined on woke af today by longtime friend, activist, speaker, writer all the amazing Things Tique Milan Tique. We you know, are living in extraordinary times. I don't even know some days where to start with the interviews that I'm doing, but I want to start with this. We know through the history of our community that Pride began as a riot. Pride was about black transwomen leading the charge to fight back against

police brutality in New York at Stonewall. And since the inception of this fight of resistance, Pride has kind of become personalized. It has become a part of the capitalistic cog in the WHEELM what do you think about Pride now versus what Pride began as. Yeah, I mean I love Pride, I really do. I love Pride Month. I love Pride Season. It's a great time for us to get together as a community and to celebrate, you know, how far we've come as as as as a community

as people, right as LGBTQ people. Anyway, it did start off as a riot, and I think I think it

has lost some of that edge. I think, you know, I really do love the celebratory spirit of pride, but what really kind of pisces me off is how can you get to exploit it all of the rainbows everywhere of companies who don't give a damn about LGBTQ, people who are not really invested in like diversifying their candidate pool, who are not interested in making sure you have an l LGBTQ people in positions of leadership and decision making positions,

and it's just kind of displacating and just it's just turned into a product. Right, So that is kind of disheartening that would start off as a protest and as kind of like our freedom song, our our our cry for freedom and equality has turned into has been commodified and packaged in rainbows, and it's being sold back to us. But I think that is the nature of this country.

This is what we do, you know, and you know that we see the for Juneteenth, we saw with you know, Black Lives Cream Girl, and and they have place that said it's the freedom for me girl, whose ideas that you know, there are no black people in the room where they decided to do that. Right, So this is kind of disheartened to see that that's happening with that that has happened with Pride. It's going to continue to happen. But I think, you know, so with that being said,

so then what so then what do we do? So? I think for those of us like you and me, who are considered leaders in in you know, in our communities, how can we leverage those privileges that we have, How can we leverage our influence, in our power and our leadership capabilities to make sure people don't forget that this startoff has a fight, that this was a riot. So we could celebrate, okay, but go ahead throw those punches

with a smile on your factually throw those punches, you know. So, I think it's up to us as leaders in the community to make sure that we don't forget where we came from as as as a Pride community, and also to lay out some better blueprints for the future of Pride. When you see tiak all of the policy attacks that are particularly being waged against trans youth in this country in places like Florida and Texas and Tennessee and Oklahoma

and Mississippi, right, It's happening across the country. Yeah. Do you think that this, unlike with marriage equality, which was its own fight, do you think that these attacks, particularly around don't stay gay right, trans kids can't participate in sports? Do you think that this will be the galvanizing force or forces to get us back to the roots of what pride was about our resistance or have we just become too comfortable and complacent. I think we've become too

comfortable and complacent. I'm really it's I'm really scared about this, all this legislation that's happening right now, particularly you have like Roe v. Wade actually being on the chopping block, and this the prescedent that that can set, and how that's going to trickle down and then not for nothing, even if the Supreme Court doesn't Even if if the Supreme Court doesn't make these bad decisions, these the states

are already empowered to take away people's rights. And I think people are really complacent, And I think there are too many people in the queer community who are not invested in the lives of trans people, particularly that of black and brown trans people. Because they got their marriage equality, they got their house alt of Fire Island and they're having a good time. Um, and you know, and I think what we have to understand it has to be

all of us or none of us. And the thing that really that's that's like that's really frustrating about it is that people can be people who are gatekeeping in these organizations who are not necessarily who aren't really doing the hard work and the nuanced work that needs to happen.

And that's why I implore people that are who are allied that if they're going to donate time and resources, donate your resources to grassroots organizations like I love the Human Rights curR of Paign, and I love Glad, and I love all these organizations that are doing this, but they sucking in millions and millions of dollars and are

just on the surface. We have other organizations like the Marster P. Johnson Project and Anti Violence Project who are really like doing like groundwork, and those are the people who need are funding and those are the people who we really need to be listening to. But I think just a lot of people are just really comfortable where they're all where they are and are really comfortable with

like turning away from it. Turning away from it and maybe I don't know, retweeting or you know, hashtagging or whatever and calling that solidarity when it's just like performance. Nobody's really ready to get their hands dirty, and it feels like folks aren't really ready to get uncomfortable. And the only people that are really doing it is us. It's the black trans folks who are out here doing it, in the black queer folks who are out here doing it.

I'm tired, really, you know. It's it is really interesting because I've been thinking about this a lot, which is the fact that I don't think that within the LGBTQ community, we've done a really good job of continuing to embrace and the trans part of the community. I think that these attacks are able to be waged at a statewide level, at a national level because the trans community is low

hanging fruit. Oh yea, because we and so what do you where do you see the breakdown is that we have had amongst ourselves that has allowed this kind of set up to be what it is right now? Yeah, I don't know, I mean, how have we allowed this to happen? Again? I think that folks are not necessarily putting all the resources in time, to the organizations and to the people who can really speak to this issue. Right.

But I also think it's it's bigger than the queer community, because what's happening is this is sault on trans bodies. Is because it's because we exist, transgender people, us being self determined in our gender and us saying that we can.

We're gonna live the way we want. We're gonna look the way we want, despite what gender we're assigned with, despite what our body parts are, despite how people say masculine and femininity, if feminite supposed to look in the world, when we do that, we are kind of just turning patriarchy on its head. Makes the United makes America America? Is it's patriarchy, which gives all of these old white

men all of their power. Is patriarchy, right, And so what we are doing just by existing, we are we are dismantling the patriarchy, just by existing in our skin, and they can't take it. And that is something that's bigger than the community. So it's not even it's not

necessarily just about the LGBTQ. This is an assault on gender and trying to tell people, trying to legislate us out of existence in order to hold on to this like heteronormative nuclear family, this very white, absist kind of life, and that's in us being in the world is saying that that's not it, Like that can be some people's lives, but it's not all of us. We really complicate the human experience to the point where people just can't take it.

They can't take us because the thing is is that you have people in power, and the only reason that they are in powers because they're standing on the next of us. The only reason people are in power because they create this binary system of gender, these binary systems of sexuality that are just power structures. These are made up power structures, and we are chipping away at that power structure and they would rather kill us than lose power.

That's what's happened. So I think it's bigger than just the LGBT community. This is about This is about this country. This is about just the power structures or the performance and the performance of gender and what that looks like. This is about talking about gender in a different way and understated that gender is something that is self determined, it's something that's not imposed. And I think if more people understood that, I think the world would be a

better place. You know well understood that. It's you know, the more people are that are understanding it, it's getting really scary for those who don't. You know, I want to dig into what you just said here because I think that it was present in just the right way. That gender is something that is not imposed, that you

don't impose your will on other people. And so when we think about what we were taught and how we were how we were subscribed to heteronormativity and to cist culture, it is through this idea that men do this and women do this. The biggest pushback that we hear from the opposition, and I don't even want to call them the opposition, because these people are truly evil. It isn't just it isn't just like an opposition we have a difference of opinion. You literally are trying to kill us.

So the thing that I want to say is that the common refrain is that they don't want people just doing whatever they want, right, that the desire here is about it is about control. So can you connect the dots for folks as to why if they are concerned about Roe V. Wade which they should be because it's dead. Why they should also be concerned about the pushback and the assault on trans people and trans bodies and trans lives because there is a connection there, because it's about power,

that's right, It's about power. The assault on trans lies is a stepping stone to an assault on CIS lives. So as all of us are none of us like this. They know folks are our play and are playing chests

and other people are playing fucking Candyland. You know what I'm saying, Like when they're assaulting trans people and this is they're dismantling these rights as a way of controlling people, particularly controlling women's bodies, as a way of creating more power for men, and absolutely destroying and legislating trans people out of existence. So all these things are happened with trans people before we got you know, before somebody's built the tea about Roe v. Wade. It was leading up

to that, so they're setting a precedent. You know, this is this is very scary stuff that's happening, and people have to be able to connect those dots. That's what I'm saying. Well, we all have to be fighting for for for one another because if because one day they're gonna come for you, the next day they're gonna come for me. They're going to come for all of us

in order to keep power. So I think it's really important for people to really be if they're involved with what's going on with Roe v. Wade and are fighting for that. They have to be fighting for the lives of trains people. You have to be fighting for the lives of black people, right this is about And that's the thing, like change really happens when you start with the needs of the people on the margins quote margins.

We start to get the needs of the people on the margins, and you start to feel that up it is going to trickle in. It's going to help all

of us. And I don't think that people understanding, even like people who are organizing don't understand that people in our government don't understand that it's really important to start looking at what's happening in the trans community, what's happening with black people, Listen to us fill these voids, see what our nuanced needs are, and rest assure the culture

is going to elevate for everybody else. But people are always starting at the center of the power and it doesn't work like that because the power structure is just going to keep just calling in everything to stay in power, whereas folks who are on the margins, we're staying listen. We are talking about how we can make things equitable quity. Yeah, so that is like what is needed for all of us, that we could all have an equal playing field. And we are the ones that people need to be listening to,

but they're not, you know. And that's and that's the connection here. And I don't think that people are necessarily making you know, you have been able to both live in the United States and outside of the United States, and I want to get just your your your perspective on what you have been able to see in other places and the acceptance or lack thereof of trans people, what we could potentially learn or not And are you thinking this is a question that I'm asking in this

these interview series about leaving. I am definitely thinking about living. I was just talking to my daughter's mother about that yesterday. I was just in Coasta Rica for three weeks. That's a month in Coasta Rica. A few a few years ago. I was just down there recently thinking about buying some property down there. Um, and my ex wife and my daughter just moved down to Texas, which is really scary

from Toronto. Yeah, so they're in Dallas now. So but when I was in Toronto and we were going through our divorce and we you know, it was it was a pretty like nasty, customy battle. But we're here now. Um, I was really terrified that my transition is going to be weaponized and they were gonna try to take my child away from me, right. But but the courts in Ontario and in Canada, they say they don't play that at all. It was like, we do not do that here.

You'd be a trans has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to be a father, like they like they shut that down before I can even really get into it, you know. And I really really respected that about how they were legislating around with with trans folks and living in Canada, It's just it is very different. It's very different. It's not there. There isn't like this vicious, aggressive attack against transfolks. I mean, you're gonna have people who are transphobic.

But for the most part, when I was in Canada, the Canadian government, um, really had a better understanding of the humanity of trans folks. There's tons of tons of resources there, um and and and this is the thing I think a lot of people, particularly black folks, we need to start getting out of the United States. This idea that the United States is the only place for us is bullshit. This idea of the United States is exceptional.

That's a bunch of bullshit. I was just down in I was just start of Costa Rica, and I had a and I had an injury. You know, I got an X ray for sixty dollars. Maybe get X ray United States would cost some one hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Like this, This country, ain't it right? They're they're they're

like playing in our faces right now. And I think it's really important for us to kind of just on a global scale, be looking at where are the other places that we can go and stop believing it's like drinking the kool aid that there are no other places on this planet for lgbt to Q people or black queer people, because there are. I was just in Costa Rica. It's tons of queer people there. It's it's just it's nothing.

We're just living. It's just it's the powers in the United States, and it's not The thing is the United States in the in the in the form that it is and where it's going is not sustainable. And it does work. Two years father, I have a four year old daughter. What it's going to be of this country in thirty years when she's thirty four years old? What's going to be here for my baby? Like, I don't know? And it, you know, it's one of the things that

can keep me up at night. You know, I want to switch gears because you have done and you continue to do a lot of work on unpacking masculinity right, understanding masculinity in both its value but also in its toxicity. And I want to get your thoughts on what we have seen or how I particularly Fox News and Tucker Carl Simon have been weaponizing masculinity with these very fragile white sith men, straight men who you know, believe that

testosterone levels are going down. And this is why I need an a R fifteen And I got to tan my balls and I got to do I mean, this is actual like actual things documentary documentary. I use that with air quotes that they have done and it's all wrapped around this idea of replacement right and the idea of the low birth rate. And so I want to get your sense of how all of this is being used and discussed. So you want to get I'm sorry

you went out a little bit. You said, you want to get my sense of what now of how masculinity is being talked about and how toxic masculinity seems to be running rampant on these networks like Fox News and with Tucker Carl sim Yeah, but it's desperate. Is this looks so desperate. It's a desperate power grab. And here's the thing. When I talk about masculinity, always talk about an organic masculinity, a masculinity that is tethered to your spirit.

And what how masculinity has been defined is you are a man because you are not a woman. You are masculine because you're not feminine. You are a man because of who you can't control, because of who you have power over, because of who you're competing with. But when you take away all of that, what is left of you? And that's that's what's happening. Women are taking work with women saying I don't need to heterosexual women, particularly, I don't need to be married, married marriage is is a skim.

I don't need to be married. I don't need a man. I could do all these things on my own. So men are like, oh, these you know the insults, like oh these women they so independent? Then don't you know that? Like like marriage is like marriage is the prize and a lot of women are saying, no, it's not. And these men don't know what to do, and they become and they become repressed and become zetful, they become angry,

and they become violent. It is because the only way they have ever been able to define themselves is in relation to everything they can control and what happens. We have more people who are self determined in their gender and self determined in their life and take control over it. That takes away control from them, there by taking away their personhood because their humanity is based on control. And

that's the thing. And it's like men need to do some soul searching, like just take this, take all of that away, and just look inside yourself and define yourself for yourself and for me, I think this is another thing. I think being a healthy man for me when I realize as a trans person, I was looking for all of these I was looking for heterosexual men to tell me how to be a man. Yeah too. I was drinking the kool aid, and I was like, the way these they I don't like this, like nothing the job.

And I had to really check myself and say, take you know, you forty years old, you've been in queer community of fourteen. I was raised by butches, stone butches, gay men in these communities, right, So like I got my You know, I think I'm a good man. I think I have a healthy masculinity. But my healthy masculinity came from the blueprints that came from masculine women, and that came from gay men and came from the queer community.

Watching how we did masculinity, you know, you know what I'm saying, Watching watching gay men love their their platonic friends, watching people and if their own emotions, you know, Watching watching butch women like they stand up and be nurturing and take care of their families. AMBI providers and biing protectors. Like I learned masculinity from from these folks here, you know. And I think, and I think that that's important to look at different modes masculinity, looking at different ways in

which it can exist. Because I think that heterosexual, heteronormative sister or masculinity. I think it's sociopathic. I think it's toxic. I think it's tell me, come on, sick, I really do. There's a sickness there and I and it's and it's just so bizarre. It's just so bizarre, you know, And it's just I don't know. But that's but that's the thing. I think it's really important to start to define masculinity outside of what we can't control. Men need to do that.

But then also, but the thing is the flip side of that. In order to do that means you have to be vulnerable. But here's the thing. What are ment taught? Mentaught? Men are taught to be vulnerable. It's just a weak and to be feminine exactly. So you can't. But the thing is is that's a bunch of bullshit because actually vulnerability is the other side of courage. Yeah, it's not a bravery. You gotta be vulnerable enough. So you have to be courageous enough to be vulnerable. You gotta be

vulnerable enough to be brave. They're saying, like, you can't. These men, they can't win, they can't win. Last question, for utake. We are in the midst of a culture and political breakdown. Do you believe that there is an opportunity for a breakthrough or this is just going to be a breakdown and the pieces are gonna fall, the people are gonna fall, and from that dust something else will come. You know, I don't want to be a Debbi downer, but I just don't. I don't see you know,

a breakthrough. If a breakthro's gonna happen, it's going to happen after something really really bad happens, like you know, like like this country is hard headed. You know, you gotta really feel it, you know what I'm saying, So something bad is going to have to happen, like worse than what's happening now. I'm like, what is where? I'm like, what are you doing? Something bad it's about to happen. We've had three mass shootings in three fucking weeks and

people still like people still. I want to get the air of fifteen, Like it doesn't like this. It's just like common sense, it's not that common and it's really scary when when we don't have common sense legislation in this country, where are we going here? You know? And then and I was just reading this article to day about how the sentis in Florida has like just jerry mandering and re move things around to disenfranchise black voters.

This is just is happening all over like it's where this the country is on the slippery slope downward now. Even read an article and they said the United States, there's a I guess there's an index where they rank all of the countries, and I think it's the healthy democrats. See it's the first time that we're not healthy, where we're actually a backsliding democracy exactly. And it's it's we're going downhill and this is going to go faster and faster because people aren't really to do ready to do

the vulnerable or courageous work. And people want to hold onto power. And if that means and if the few people, a few of them will hold onto the power at the expense of the rest of us. Yeah, And that's just it like it is in our culture, Like it's not I think it's even like passive legislation. But this is like in our culture. And I don't know what kind of breakthrough we need. I know, I think you know what I think I think black folks, I think

we just need to lead. Yeah, I mean, in all honesty, this is the consistent refrain that I'm hearing from black queer people, that I'm hearing from black straight people, that I'm hearing from those that occupy different identities, marginalized identities, are getting to the point where they're just like, yeah, I'm starting to do my research, figure out where I can go, what kind of work I can do. If we can all be remote, then I don't need to be here, right Like, And so it's like, so that's

the thing. It's like, if I can be remote and I'm still pulling in a salary, I don't need to live in violence, I don't need to live in fear, And so what does that look like? And where can I go? That's right, when you have the means, And that's the thing, And that's privilege. Like having option is a privilege, right, and so I think it's important if we have options, then take and then take advantage of those options. I know it's black lesbian couple that just

built a house in Mexico. They're out, They're gone. You know what I'm saying. I'm looking at buy a property in Costa Ricos just talking to somebody other day, cheap, I'm out, Like it's yeah, if you can, if you can leave, and then think about the ways in which you could be in solidarity with those that that that can't. And I think that's saying that, you know, just leave. I know that feels big and it could be like hyperbolic for some people. It may if it seems doesn't

even seem like feasible. But that's because we have been taught that this is our only option. But I think people are realizing that we have other options. We have the freedom of movement. If you have freedom of movement, I employ you see the world, get your passport, see the world. See if there's another place where you can live a good and healthy life, like even like health, like like our souls here are conscious, Like it's so

much anxiety, Like I'm anxious. I started going in therapy in twenty twenty because I was like, I don't know what the fuck is going on? You know what I'm saying, Like this is like it's it's a it's a toxic to our physical health, our spiritual and mental health. And if you can get out of here for a little bit, if you can you're working well, even take a month and get away to come back, but just do something. But this, this is not it. This is not the

only place for us. There's there's we belong anywhere in the world. But we are gonna be treated as human beings and are going to be under under a government that is democratic and it actually cares about the needs of the people. Miss is to the people in the United States? Is not that? Take Milan. Thank you so much for making the time to join will Gate after. We appreciate you your voice, your activism, your power, and your truth always so good to Daniel. Good to see you, honey.

Hey there, I want to tell you about another podcast I think you'll love. The Brown Girl's Guide to Politics, hosted by a Shanty Goehler, the president of Emerge BGG, is the one stop shop for women of color who want to hear and talk about the world of politics. Join a Shanty this season as she talks to incredible women of color who are changing the face of politics and tackling some of the most important issues facing the United States, from reproductive justice to voting rights, to climate

change and more. Tune in every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke app as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck. Get a behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The Daily Show on Beyond the Scenes, an original podcast from The Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Every week, host Roy Wood Junior goes deeper with the notable guests

and experts from the Emmy Award winning series. Together, they use comedy to tackle current top fix from gentrification to gun laws, and take a closer look at how and why these topics matter. Listen to Beyond the Scenes from The Daily Show with Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes every Tuesday.