Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with me your girl Daniel Moody recording from the home Bunker. Folks, look out your window, because apparently hell has in fact frozen over. Mitch McConnell has said that he will step down as the Republican leader in the Senate. While his term does not finish until January twenty twenty seven, he will not be seeking reelection, and he will be stepping
down in November as leader in the Senate. Let me tell you something, as soon as I read that fucking headline, I was like, bye, bitch, bye. As you you know, because you've been listening to OKF for quite some time. I cannot fucking stand Mitch McConnell. I think that Mitch McConnell is indicative of everything that is wrong with America, with white supremacy, with patriarchy, and with white men having power. Mitch McConnell is the reason why we have a six
to three Trump Supreme Court. You know, when I think about it now, and I posted a video yesterday talking about his decision to step down, I get so fucking angry sometimes when I think back to the Obama administration, particularly the last term, where Barack Obama said that he
was choosing Merritgarland to be his Supreme Court nominee. Mitch McConnell then decides, well, I'm not even going to give you a hearing, and Barack Obama just says, okay, doesn't decide to take Mitch McConnell to court, doesn't decide to fight for his right as President of the United States to seat a Supreme Court justice, and just fucking acquiesced to that son of a bitch who would then not only jam Brett Kavanaugh a fucking rapist down our throats,
but then also Cony Barrett. So when I think about Barack Obama and that moment, that is just indicative of how the Democratic Party has been. Republicans will pull every single fucking punch that they can, just egging, just waiting. You won't call my bluff, You gon'a try and take me to the mats, and Democrats say no, no, no, no, oh, it's okay, boss. Imagine where we would be right now. It would still be, in all honesty, a five to
four court. Again, if Barack Obama had actually tried to fight in court for his right to seat a Supreme Court justice. And then when Joe Biden won the election and Mitch McConnell decided to ram again Amy Cony Barrett down our throats. If I'm Joe Biden and I'm coming in and I'm saying, no, I won the election, you do not have the right to seat this Supreme Court justice.
And I would have fucking fought it, because what do you lose at the end of the day when you fight for the country, our democracy, and the base, what do you lose? You lose a whole lot when you decide to try and compromise with the fucking devil that laughs in your face. Republicans been playing in our faces for the last fucking eight and nine years under trump Ism.
They were playing in our faces with the Tea Party and the fucking Birther movement, and we don't take them to the mats on these issues, and then look and are surprised when our rights are taken away and rolled back one fucking Supreme Court decision in one state at a time. It is just as much Mitch McConnell's fucking fault. But you know what he was going to do. He was showing you. The Democrats decided to lay the fuck down and thought that that made them look like, what
the bigger person, Fuck your bigger person. The country is fucked because of it. So let me tell you something. Mitch McConnell couldn't have announced his retirement soon enough. He should have retired back in twenty twenty or twenty eighteen, or I don't know, fucking six decades ago. Also, if I'm the state of Kentucky and I'm looking around and I'm looking at your education numbers and your healthcare numbers and your obesity numbers, exactly what is it that Mitch
McConnell did for the state of Kentucky. Not a fucking thing. You know. I saw a mean the other day that was so accurate. It was so accurate when it said the biggest trick that the Republican Party pulled off was convincing the American electorate that the party that was trying to give you healthcare, bodily autonomy, right, and access to the vote were the bad guys. So, you know, good
riddance fucking Mitch McConnell. It clearly means if that motherfucker is letting go of power, then he must be on death's door and he couldn't get there soon enough. Coming up next, dear friends, my conversation with our in house doctor, our friend, doctor Jonathan Metzel. We are checking in with him to see how his book tour is going. If you have not gotten a copy of Jonathan's new book that is a New York Times bestseller, that is in the New York Times editors lists and editors picks What
We've Become, go out and get yourself a copy. That conversation is coming up next, folks. I am so excited to be back with our friend, our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, who's been doing the tour devorce around the country with his new book, What We've Become. Jonathan, So tell us you have been in all the places. Tell us about some of the experiences, the conversations that you have had, and what's coming up for people as they as they read your book.
Well, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be back talking to you. I've missed you so much. It's been it's been a whirlwind. The book was on the cover of the New York Times Book Review and was an editor's pick from the New York Times, and then it just kind of took off from there, and so it's been it's been fantastic. I've been just came back from New Orleans last night. I'm actually doing my day job here for a couple of days, which they want me to show up and do every every once in
a while. And then I'm heading to Kansas City to be a speaker at my old medical school, actually my my my alma mater. And then I'm going to be in North Carolina, and then I'm going to be back here in Nashville doing a book club. And so it's been a it's been a whirlwind, lots of different audiences. It's interesting time to be out there talking about politics, as you know, obviously as a non politician. But I'm finding, you know, obviously that there's a lot of hunger out
there to talk about guns. And my book is about guns and mass shootings and race, but it's obviously a metaphor for a bunch of bigger issues also, and so it's been great to have those conversations. The best one by far was at green Light Bookstore in Brooklyn, New York, where you and I had a lovely, amazing conversation. But I'll post after this, I'll post to the show. Some of the images I sent you yesterday because it's been great. I was in d C talking to Neam Malika Henderson.
I was in Boston talking to Beth Novak. I did a reading with my softball team in Brooklyn because we lost a teammate two years ago now to gun violence. And so it's just there's, you know, going out and talking about this issue people relate to in very personal ways. So parents of victims have come, conservatives have come, liberals have come, tons of crazy people have come and so and so it's been it's been I think it's been
good to have these kind of conversations. It's for me reinforced my not what I know, which is that when you get off of social media and off of cable news, that you actually can have real conversations with people. So
that part's been really nice. And again the book is quite provocative to conservatives but also to liberals, and so the other I think interesting part of it is that I was a bit nervous about what it would mean to challenge liberal dogma out there, but that part has been going really well.
Also, I think too, whenever I have the opportunity, which is not often frankly, to get out and actually speak to real life people and get a sense of what the sentiments and feelings are on the ground. Like you said, we're in really precarious times as it pertains to our politics. You're not running for office, so you're not trying to convince people you know, of something, But I mean you are trying to shift their ideology around guns and how
we approach them. So what have been some of the thoughts that people have offered that have, you know, maybe kind of give you pause, or thoughts that they have offered where you're just like, Okay, maybe we are making some headway here.
I'll give you the opposite and then I'll answer that question. But the opposite for me, as people who've read the book now, I challenge the idea that's kind of core knowledge in the Democratic Party that guns are a public health emergency. I mean, they are a public health emergency.
But I argue that what we're doing is not going to get us anywhere because things like background checks and red flag laws, if they're the core of our entire agenda, we're not going to shift some of the bigger things that are happening to us about the other side using the gun issue to put judges in place, and to for me, a huge issue is we have no real answer to permitless carry, which is the story of the
story of the book. And so as much as I think background checks and read flag laws and all those things are important, I feel like they're always going to be protest issues against authority if we don't have a theory of power. And conversely, the Republicans or the NRA or whoever for them, guns is a conduit to power. And so I really am trying to say that, Now that's a hard thing for people to hear, sometimes, certainly people who have been involved in gun violence themselves. You know,
I try to be very clear. I'm not saying guns are not a public health issue. It's just that framing them as a public health issue is not going to give us the kind of power to counter the power of the controlling the Supreme Court and things like that that we need actually a different strategy. But that's very personal for a lot of people. So that part has been I think hard and productive. You know, I always urge people to please read the book, because it's not
like I'm saying I don't believe in gun laws. I just think that they're always going to be for structural reasons, a protest against power if we don't have a model of power. Also, so that part has been hard. But I would also say that there are just a lot of people who have a lot of and maybe this is how politics works, but a lot of alliance, a lot of alliance to the kind of every town line, which is background checks or a flag laws, all these
kind of things. And so for that there's been a lot of pushback from the left in a way that is like, you can't say that because that's not what you know, that's not our position. So that part has been hard. But I would like to think that the hard times are the I would like to think that the hard times are the ones that are the most you know, when you challenge people, that's when the real conversation happens. So I would say that that would probably be my answer.
And I wonder too, like, as you are going around the country now talking about your book, where you think that gun violence gun reform ranks in Biden's reelection campaign, like where you know, where do you think that those conversations are they being had? Are they being had enough? And frankly, are they being discussed in the right way.
Well, they matter a lot to Biden's reelection campaign for the reason I talk about in the book, which is that Trump went to the NRA and he said, nobody's going to touch your guns, I'm and so he told people they could keep their guns and keep their power. And that's what NRA people like to hear, and they vote on this one hundred percent of the time. Like I show that Republicans vote because of Trump's line on guns,
but Democrats don't vote based on gun related issues. And so our line is based in regulation and common sense laws and trust in public health and mandates. But that doesn't drive Democrats to the polls. And so even if people don't vote on guns as a wedge issue, which it shows is not the case with Democrats, they vote on other things. But you can be sure that Trump voters are going to be voting on guns as a wedge issue. And so that's part of the issue. Is
I'm not saying everybody needs to vote on guns. People vote on a bunch of different issues. But I would just say that whether or not it's an issue for Biden, it certainly is going to be a driver for Trump voters, and so we need to at least recognize.
That, you know, I'm wondering, Jonathan, Like you know that we have several months right now between now and November, and sadly, in the way that things work in America, I'm certain that there'll be multiple mass shootings that will happen. I'm not quite sure. And you tell me, because I know that there are conversations around how we measure mass shootings now because there are so many that how we
measure them needs to change. But I'm wondering. You know, we also know that the former head of the NRA was just charged, you know, with massive amounts of fraud here in New York. How does any of these things like, I don't know, Like, like I believe Democrats are not single issue voters, and we have so many things that are coming at us right now, and I think that there is a sense of being worn out. But like in your mind obviously, you know, you just laid out
the difference between Biden and Trump. But I'm just like wondering, outside of the headlines, do you think that guns are front of mind for people?
As you know from my time piece, I think the bigger issue with guns isn't just about guns. It's about the threat they present to democracy and democratic governance that gun politics do. And so I would say that whether or not Democrats feel like, oh guns is my issue, and I'm going to go to the poll based on guns, which is true for some people and not for other people. Your future freedom depends on what's going to happen in that election. And there are ways in which the Republicans
mobilize around the gun issue. And I'll give you an example. We get are furious after mass shootings. We protest after mass shootings, we demand change after mass shootings. The Republicans don't do that. But South Carolina and Louisiana now are passing what's called constitutional carry, permitless carry. We now have the states in the country. Pretty soon here they're going
to allow people to carry guns without any training, any permit. Now, the story I tell in the book is how permitless carry makes it impossible to stop mass shootings, but it also creates a kind of sense of lawlessness. I mean, these guys know that flooding guns into cities leads to more crime, and then they point to crime as an issue. And so in a way, while we're out there protesting, the Republicans have been the cops with n RA is
probably important. But the fact that we're not focusing enough on the rise of just armed people in society right now. That's what happened to the Kansas City Super Bowl parade. I was going to say, yep, you know, two guys got in a shooting and then nine hundred other people whipped out their guns. And so in a way, the Republicans are using the gun issue to change society, to change how people feel about the public square, to change how people trust each other. And so I just think
I agree. I mean, people are going to vote for Gaza or for climate, or for age, or for they love Robert F. Kennedy Junior or whatever, you know, like they're going to vote for a bunch of crazy, weird reasons or real reasons or urgent reasons. But but the issue is we're up against an opponent that is not not broad like that, Like the opponent is going to
base vote. Guns is one of the court issues that people are going to vote on, and so it's not you know, I just think we need to be a lot more disciplined in the face of what it suggests about what we're up against. Does that make sense?
Yeah? And I you know, I just want to go back to something that you said, which was, you know that the Republicans they're using the gun issue as a
way to change our relationship with guns. And I would argue there was something that I saw earlier this week in Texas, for instance, where Greg Gabbott is, you know, creating a policy that essentially has people turn in their neighbors, right like, has people turn on their neighbors as it pertains to their like potential immigration status or what have you. And it's really what I realize from that is that like the whole love thy neighbor part of you know,
Christianity and the Bible is lost on these people. There is no love thy neighbor. It's fear thy neighbor. It's you know, turn on thy neighbor. And I'm wondering for you, like, how does the proliferation of guns really go hand in hand with our lack of ability to build community with other with people outside of that look like us, you know that are considered quote unquote other.
But also it's got you know, you go into the public square mistrusting people fearing the worst, pulling out your gun just in case. And so it certainly has tribalizing
functions that are very self perpetuating. But the other thing is I write about in that time piece is like, because of the Bruined decision, it's also incredibly anti democratic And by that I mean that By that, I mean that people have voted for gun policies in places like Oregon, for example, or Virginia, but the judges now can overturn the will of the voters because of the Bruined decision, And so it's also a model for anti democracy because
people vote for safety laws that can then be overturned. So Republicans are also using the gun issue to put power in their lifetime appointed judges in a way that overturns the will of the voters in ways that I think is another big issue obviously this if this whole election is about democracy, guns are a really core component to that and people. So hopefully for people who read the book, they'll see what I mean. But I have a lot of very concrete examples of that.
What are your hopes for this book and how it shapes our conversations moving forward, Like there is a sense and I you know, we talk about this all the time here of just hopelessness around this issue that just continues to get worse. Republicans get more savvy. You're laying out all the ways in which you know, they have increased gun proliferation and changed the laws and bought the
judges and done all the things. And so for a lot of people, as they're listening to this, they're just like, fuck it, it's a lost cause, you know, And so I want like, so yeah, so please.
The rebindless is true for every issue, but the twenty four election honestly is make or break for this issue. You I think that if we win the twenty four election, we have the ability to totally upend the American gun debate. It's not you know, my students think it's about are you four against the Second Amendment? That you know we're
thirty years past that. It's really can we invest and rebuild in community infrastructure in ways that make people feel safe and like they don't need to carry a gun every time they need the house? Leave the house? So I think, you know, that will depend on who's sitting on the Supreme Court. It depends on who's sitting in all the other judge, judge ships. I just think power will create the ability to change that conversation. And so the stakes of this coming election, like for everything else,
could not possibly be higher. I just think that people, you know, people's great grandchildren will bear the implications of whether we have nine NRA Supreme Court judges or we whether we take back power on the Supreme Court, for example, And so guns are obviously one part of that story, but I think a pretty considerable one.
So you, I mean, you come at this from an angle of we need to change course, but you still have, what I hear in your voice, a sense of hopefulness that like there is still fight to be had, and I think that, and I think, but you know, and I want to I want you to talk about that because I think that where this issue but a whole host of issues where people are feeling, you know, drained, and they're just like there is no hope. Every every
day is another horrible headline. Every day is another policy that's being passed that goes against the will of the people. But Republicans don't care.
Well, here's the thing. We have an ability, like you know, a year from now, we won't have the opportunity that we have now one way or another, so we actually have an election where we have a say in how things are going to play out. Now. I understand a lot of people are not thrilled with the two options, but there is I think Charles Blow was right about this over the weekend on Instagram. We have a really clear decision about the future of our country. There are
two very radical decisions and directions. And not that like anyone is perfect, but these are the two decisions that we have, the two directions that we have, and so I think that either we're going to either we're going to kind of keep working towards the project that we're on, or the whole thing is going to kind of evaporate. And so at least right now, I'm optimistic because we have a voice right now. And as you know, I have a lot of I have a lot of liberal
friends in Israel. And it's funny, but I was in Israel before Nitta Yah was elected and they were feeling like, oh my god, we're going through this again. We're exhausted.
The problem in Israel was the other side, the right evil side in Israel, was totally mobilized, and so what happened in the Israel election, and I'll tell you why I'm telling you this, But what happened in Israel election was that the left voted in the same numbers that they had for every election, kind of their average sixty one percent, but the right voted seventy nine percent, totally energized, and Nitanya, who has overtaken the courts, got the country
into a war, threatened the existence of the entire country, all these kind of things. And so when I talked to my friends in Israel now, they're like, oh my god, I wish we would have done more. We felt so blase before this election, and it cost us everything, including like our essets, our existence. And for me that talking to the guys like that, it's just such a it's such a wake up call for me, because it's kind of like the left kind of figured, well, we need
to shake things up. I don't trust the people I'm against. But being detached was the strategy of the right. They wanted the people on the left to feel like it doesn't really matter, your vote doesn't matter. And I feel like the same thing's being done to the left here. And again I just always think back, I have a piece I'm writing about it now. Interviewing Israeli leftists a month after that Nitan Yahoo election, and they were in
shock about what it meant for their lives. They realized this is going to lead to a war and international isolation and the end of their rights. But even in a place like Israel, where people are pretty attuned with democracy, the strategy of telling people their vote didn't matter was really effective. And I feel like the same thing is being done here. I really do feel like, who, you know, there's obviously very real issues. I'm not trying to step
away from that. But the strategy of convincing people their vote doesn't matter is what's being pumped across social media to everybody right now. And the question is how we're going to mobilize around them.
Yeah. And the funny thing is, and you know, we'll close on this, is that you know, in twenty sixteen, in twenty twenty, in twenty sixteen, twenty eighteen, twenty twenty, and you know, and twenty twenty two we've had the highest turnout we've ever had, right Like, So it's a point of yes, that is their strategy, but the people of this country have also been responding every year since with their action and their turnout at the polls, and so I don't want that to be lost on people
as well as always, my friend Johnathan, We're so happy, proud and excited for you and this book. We wish you continued success as you continue your tour.
Really, thank you so much. And let me just say that some listeners to the show reached out to ask if I would do a book club, and I would be delighted anytime anybody wants to just let me know, but if you're if you're a WOKF listener, I would be delighted to do a book club.
Absolutely wonderful. Thank you. That is it for me today, dear friends on Woke a F as always, Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck. MHM.