Alarmed State

I will say. I'll start off with this Fox News not playing the insurrection and not only not playing it with sound, but doing their whole you know, livetime maneuvering and editing to try and shelter their audiences from reality, right, and then having the audacity of that piece of shit Tucker Carlson going on and saying, Oh, this is just

all propaganda. You're the only network. And I know that you guys think that it's like a badge of honor to be the only network that isn't covering reality because you're so terrified right of what it is that your viewers are going to think that you have to think for them, that you have to shield them because they are a bunch of radicalized children, and God knows what they will do or what they will say when you start to create a monster, and then eventually that monster

will turn on you. It is only a matter of time. But now I just want to go to the contents of what it is that we saw. First of all, to see these video images at these at these different endles, to see the brutality, to see the force with which this white domestic terrorist mob took and descended upon our capital building, and watching the faces of these capital police

officers is particularly the one that gave her testimony. The Republican Party is supposed to be the party that believes in blue lives, that believes in the military, But I realize that everything about them is as fraudulent as Fox News. Everything is just about like they think that patriotism is going to Old Navy the day before the fourth of July and getting themselves donned in had to tow American flag gear. That's to the extent of their understanding of

patriotism and the Republican Party. They don't understand at all the Constitution, the context of it democracy, and what democracy is actually supposed to look like, which is that Hey, you vote, your candidate doesn't win, you say, oh that sucks. You go back, you figure out what it is that you need to do to engage the American public. You do that, and then you get another bite at the apple.

You don't do what Donald Trump did, which would say, nah, fuck it, I'm just not going to leave, spread an entire lie, put up over sixty court cases that get laughed out of court, and then when that doesn't work, create your own militia and then have them descend upon the Capitol Building in search of your vice president, who you believe is treasonist because he refuses to go along with the big lie, as does your own fucking daughter, the Attorney General, and the entire circle of people around

you who said you lost right. I just don't understand like the character of these people, and they just they don't have any And I guess that's what gets me to this place is that we continue to refer to Republicans as if they are a legitimate political party, as if all that they have is a difference in ideology. This is not about a difference in ideology between two groups.

This is about one that refuses to deal with reality and instead creates their own is terrified of people of color, and the fear extends so greatly to the shifting demographic that you foresee that all you need to do is descend upon these communities with abject violence, have the courts in your pocket, and then all is going to go. Well. I'm looking around this place and I'm saying, America is a fucking tinderbox, and we are about one step away

from just a full out blown civil war. And you know, I don't think that these people, if in fact, they will ever be reflected, reflection, ever reflect excuse me over what it is that they have sided with, if any of them will ever have an epiphany, Like I didn't know that you could get brainwashed into a cult. And I don't even want to say that they're brainwashed, because Frank, that doesn't allow them to hold responsibility for the decisions

that they're making. You know, I did TV over the weekend, and you know, Katie Fang on MSNBC, she said, you know, do you think that Liz Cheney, who voted with Donald Trump ninety percent of the time, is going to be remembered in history as this great person of courage? And I said, here's The thing that pisces me off is that Liz Cheney actually agrees with every single abysmal, racist, misogynistic, you know, anti American policy that Donald Trump put forth.

The only thing that she didn't agree with was that our election was stolen, and for that she was turned into an incredible villain. This bitch is a Cheney, do you know what I'm saying. So it's like, how is history going to remember her the way that we remember everyone in history, regardless of how terrible they were, how horrible their parents were, all of their connections to the demise of our democracy into limiting the voice of the people. She'll be remembered as a hero if, in fact, by

then we have history books that tell the truth at all. So, you know, I want to applaud on one hand, you know, Liz Cheney for what grasping reality, But at the same time, I'm like, Liz Chaney was terrible for America, right, Like, she has not done good for this country outside of

this one thing. But our attention spans are short and our memories even shorter, which is why you know, I hope that the one six House Commission goes out with the same energy that they came in with meaning that I hope that the closing it's in primetime at seven pm. You know, today's edition is going to be at ten

in the morning where people work. So I'm just like, again, do this thing right, Have it, you know, not every night, but have it weekly seven pm for the next you know, six weeks or however many weeks that it's supposed to be. But do it in primetime, and do it when people are sitting down with their families at home and everyone can gather around and then pummel it all of the days in between on social media, on radio, on every

single television show, on every single network. It's the most important thing that people should be watching right now, right. And so where it leads us, folks, I still don't know. Our friend Glenn Kirshner is coming up next and he's going to walk us through everything that we saw why it is important in what he believes that the Department of Justice will be doing. But I don't know. I will say that it was jaw dropping, right, jaw dropping.

The fact that we know that the oath Keepers and the Proud Boys met ahead of time, the fact that they weren't even in attendance at the President's speech at that time because they were getting ready to lay out their plan to take over the Capitol Building. Right, Donald Trump absent for a hundred and eighty seven minutes and Vice President Pence is acting as president calling on the National Guard. What is Donald Trump doing for one hundred

and eighty seven minutes? Well, I said on Amin Mohadean show that Donald Trump wasn't in charge of the White House or America for that matter, in that one hundred and eighty seven minutes, because he was leading the insurrection from inside of the White House. Right, people like, what was Donald Trump doing? He was in coordination. I am one hundred percent sure with the Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys, you know, the group that he told to stand back

and stand by and who after saying such. What we learned from the first hearing is that membership within those organizations tripled after Donald Trump called them into arms and into action. So you know, when we say, oh, well, we have to prove in the court of law this that and the other thing, I mean, this country throws innocent black and brown people in jail all the fucking time for life sentences for shit that they did not do.

So you are telling me that again once again, for a wealthy white man who is powerful, the burden of proof is outside of our stratosphere. Donald Trump told these people after his entire inner circle told him that he lost the election well before January sixth, decided that he was going to continue spreading this lie. He knew, he knew, and how do you tell him? Because his Attorney general told him, his polster told him, his own family members told him that he lost. He just refused not to

believe it right, but to accept it. And those, to me, are two different fucking things. Donald Trump didn't choose to believe it because he believed an alternative thing. No, he refused to accept those results. And I think that that's the language that needs to have a shift here. I just am tired of living in this alarmed state where I'm wondering whether or not everyone is just in cahoots and the only people who aren't right are those of us that are black and brown, low income, or from

other marginalized groups. We're the ones that are not in on the joke. Because I'm like, is the Department of Justice just waiting for this documentary series to be finished? And then they're going to rain down with indictments. Because I gotta tell you, the twenty million Americans, and that's not even the real number. That's just the Nielsen number of like one screen in one home. You're not talking

about the people that were watching on streaming. I guarantee you that that number of people that viewed the first day of the hearing is much higher. They saw all of the evidence, all of these things unfold, and you're going to tell me that everyone is just going to accept the fact the Department of Justice isn't going to do anything with the actual architect. Donald Trump, I think that you're setting up more dangerous precedent than investigating and

indicting a former president. So we will see. Coming up next, my conversation with our friend Glenn Kirshner about the first first installment of this very long summertime series Blockbuster Hit Insurrection. Who Done It? Hey, I'm David. Plots of Slights Political Gabfest. As another election season accelerates, it can be tricky to sort through all the noise and the news. Each week on the Gapfest, John Dickerson, Emily Bathlon and I decipher the headlines, break down the races and tell you what

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fact that you will love this show. Listen to Indisputable with Doctor Rashad Ricci on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whereever you get your podcast. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss a new episode. Folks, you know that when I have the opportunity to speak with our friend, host of Justice Matters and MSNBC legal analyst. I am always thrilled. Although we often talk about things

that are terrible, Glenn, it has finally happened. The first public hearing episode one of America's reminder of the insurrection. Give us everything about what it is you saw picked up and is this just infotainment or is it going to turn into something of substance like charges if Daniel. Last night was a phenomenal opening statement that the jury heard of. The jury, of course, is the people. To the extent we the people tuned in, and I think

a lot of folks did. It was a remarkable opening statement setting out the evidence that the J six Committee has amassed, showing that Donald Trump was at the center of this conspiracy. That's what Representative Thompson said, That's what Representative Cheney said. They said it was a sprawling, multiple step conspiracy to deny the voters of America. And what I was most surprised by was that the evidence we saw last night, through the video clips of witnesses, they

were almost exclusively Republicans. They're going to prove this case in large part with the voices and the testimony and the evidence provided by Republicans. That help helps draw the sting out of the criticism that will come that this is just partisan politics. You know who the first witness we saw a clip of what Bill Barr. I didn't expect that. Bill Barr. They put him up there, and I will go with the unredacted version, even though I

don't ordinarily cuss on TV or on podcast. He said, I told the President his claims of election fraud were bullshit, and I told him over and over again. The reason it was so important that they start with that was one, that's incriminating evidence from his own attorney general. And two, it provides direct evidence of the only minimally open question we have. It's really alcohol. It a foe open question.

Did Donald Trump do all this with corrupt intent, with a guilty state of mind, with criminal men's raeth, Yes he did. And Bill Barr, right at the beginning of the hearings told you he did. And then they continued to play clips but incriminating clips by Jason Miller and Alex Cannon who knews who Alex Cannon was a Republican poster who walked in and pull Trump your loss and Mark Short and you know all of these Republicans who are proving the case against Donald Trump and Ivanka of

all people. They played a clip of Ivanka saying, I'm going to paraphrase here, I believed Bill Barr. I did not believe my father. No, that was the only clip they played of her. They were asked. They were asking her and videotaped testimony. You know, what did you make of Bill Barr, you know, contradicting your father and saying the election was not stolen, was not fraudulent. And she said, yeah, I took to her what Bill Barr said. In other words,

I didn't believe. And of course Trump has now truth social, not tweeted, but truth social. I call it sending out a lie, not a tweet. But when you do it, when Trump doesn't, you lie something out on truth social. And he threw Ivanka under the bus. Ivanka Trump had checked out, she didn't know, blah blah, blah blah. She's just trying to be nice to Bill Bar. I mean,

she's just trying to be nice to Bill Barr. Bill Barr is not her dad, right, Bill Barr is the Attorney General of the United States at that time, And what she is saying, I'm not part of this conspiracy. I'm not part of this big lie. I'm not like my brothers who have continued to be on social media upholding my father's lie. And the other thing that Liz

Chane Liz Cheney told us was that not only Scott Perry. Now, remember Scott Perry was pushing this true reasonist lawyer Jeffrey Clark from the Department of Justice on Donald Trump, saying, Hey, make this guy your attorney general because he'll weaponize the Department of Justice and he'll lie and say the election was stolen. Take him, take him, take him. So Trump wanted Jeffrey Clark. Yeah, and then what did we learn while Scott Perry begged for a presidential pardon? And it

wasn't only Scott Perry. Liz Cheney told us other Republican members of Congress sought presidential pardons for their role in the insurrection. And pocket pardons are about to make a comeback and hit the news in a very big way, I predict. And here's the other thing we heard about pardons. They played a clip of Jared Kushner, who, if you can't imagine a scenario that would make him even more distasteful to you that clip did it? And here's the

clip they played. They said, the Chief of the White House Counsel, Pat zipp Alone, threatened to resign because Donald Trump was trying to corruptly overturn the elections results. That's a big deal. When the White House Council threatens to resign because the president is trying to kill the democracy. And who did he report this to trying to make

his way to the president, Jared Kushner. And you know what the one clip they played of Jared Kushner's testimony was he said, yeah, yeah, pat zipp Alone, you know, saying he's gonna resign. I was busy working on getting as many pardons out as I could before Trump, before the end of Trump's turn. So I just took Pat zipp Alone as whining about stuff. So here's the good

news day, I'm out done. Here's the good news. Last night, Jared Kushner moved closer in my estimation to becoming a charge defendant in the conspiracy to commit offenses against the United State. It's based on that clip alone. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. And so I think pocket pardons are gonna make a comeback in a big way very soon. And I say that because of another important data point, which was when Kelly Ann Conway wrote

a book. I don't know if it's alternative facts or not, but in her book she said at the end of the turner, in her very low selling book go On, at the end of Trump's turn he turned, he ambles up to her and says, this is her her word, Hey, honey, you want a pardon, And she's like, I don't think I did anything wrong. Just take one. Everybody's going to need one, right Like it's a party favor. It's it's

it is. It's a parting gift. You know, you hit and take your box of rice Seroni and thanks for playing. So but here's the thing, Danielle, if he unsolicited offered Kelly an a blanket pardon, do you really think he didn't give everybody else pardons? Those people who were closer to him is family members, his criminal associates. So pocket pardons, which I've been yelling and screaming about for more than a year, are going to make a comeback in a big way. But last night, Danielle, it was a pitch

perfect opening statement. And let me hasten to add I you know Benny Thompson, who opened the proceedings and who has this brilliant, understated, earnest presentation of information to us. I could listen to him talk all day. And then Liz Cheney, who has this direct in your face, unflinching. These are the crimes Donald Trump committed. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the people fighting their asses

off to save our democracy. An African American man chairman of the J six Committee, a white woman vice chair of the J six Committee, and they are fighting against who Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, Mike Flynn, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, Jeffrey Clark, John Eastman, John Jr. Moe Brooks, Jim Jordan, Kevin McCarthy, Ted Cruz, Josh Hollywood, A whole bunch of corrupt, egomaniacal, power hungry, grubbing white men. Now that just is what

it is. But there's something very important about those two people who are fighting their asses off for us, and that batch of men who are trying to destroy our democracy and propping up a criminal former president in the process. Glenn, I mean, this is one of the most earth shattering things that has happened in this country. This presentation lays out everything that we've been talking about for well over

a year, everything that we have known. The question that I have is is And I can't stand to say this is it enough? Is this just speaking to the choir who has been disgusted by what they have seen, who has been disgusted by what we know and continue to see the bar be raised higher and higher, the threshold get larger and larger for proof that there was willful intent to overturn the government. It's more than enough. It's more than enough. And Danielle and I'm with you.

I did a piece I think it went up yesterday or the day before on MSNBC Daly, and it talked about, you know how it seems like the investigation is turned on its head, at least as compared to the way

federal prosecutors normally investigate, you know, enormous criminal conspiracies. DJ wants to go first, and then they want Congress to go second, because DJ needs to get a hold of these witnesses, put them in the grand jury, lock in their testimony so they can be used effectively in future prosecutions, and then they give them over to Congress if at all to do congresses legislative investigation. So the premise of my piece is is there a method to this investigative madness?

And I try to answer that in as deep a way as I can with the word restrictions. But I went on several thousand words and got cut down. But that's okay. I love the editors, I really do, because they polish up my work something fierce. There is a method to this investigative madness. The show we saw last night and that we will see for six weeks running is so important on the transparency front for the American people to see with their own eyes before criminal indictments

are handed down and we're now watching trials. The reason I say that is because had the Department of Justice gone first with these thousand plus witnesses, put them all in the grand jury. First of all, I know my brother and sister federal prosecutors, they couldn't have done it as quickly as J six Committee did it. I am confident of that. So they would still be trying to

grand jury witnesses. Every single witness who testified the grant before the grand jury that would have been secret by law forever unless than until they testified at a trial, which could be three years down the road, and the American people would know nothing about what those thousand witnesses saw or knew, or did or tried to stop Trump from doing, because it would have been buried in the

secrecy of the grand jury for years and potentially forever. Now, with J six going first, we get it all, We the people get all that information, and then the criminal prosecutions will commence thereafter. I'm convinced, And that's just one

of the benefits. Other benefits is if we took all these knuckleheads like Don Junior, Ivanka Rudy, and Jared, all of whom testified to the J six Committee, and we now know some of them incriminated Donald Trump, if we took them instead of putting them in front of the J six committee, if DJ delivered them grand jury subpoenas first, they would have invoked their Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination.

They wouldn't have testified at all. So the fact that J six went first because J six, when you get a witness in front of that committee, we don't have to tell them, hey, guess what, You're a subject or a target of this investigation. You have a Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. You do not have to testify if you don't want to. But we are legally obligated to tell those same that precise thing before we present them to the grand jury. That has a chilling effect.

It shuts them down. So the fact that Jay six went first created incriminating information that would never have been created had the Department of Justice gone first. Give me one more. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm running on no, no no. Because JA six went first, people incriminated themselves in dramatic ways. And what by people, I mean Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon, Dan Scovino, and who's Peter Navarro. For just those four people, Danielle,

what they did was they defied congressional subpoenas. They committed the crime of contempt of Congress. I know only two have been indicted to haven't their mystery cases. I don't care so much about the two who haven't been indicted. That doesn't mean Meadows isn't clear. By the way, that means for policy reason, they didn't want to indict a chief of staff for the president. I disagree with that, but it's small potatoes. Those four men Air quotes because

they don't deserve the title. They committed the crime of contempt of Congress in their determination to cover up the crimes of Donald Trump. That constitutes additional crimes of accessory after the fact of this prison of the felony. It

helps prove their co conspirators. Those four men provided to the government, whether it's prosecutors or J six investigating investigators, powerfully incriminating information about themselves and by extension, about Donald Trump that never would have happened if DJ went first because of federal Grand jury subpoena. One, they wouldn't have blown it off. They would have just gone in and

pled the fifth. And two. If they did blow it put off, the US Marshals would have knocked down their door, dragged them by the struff of their neck into court, and they would have been presented to the Grand jury, and then they would have pled the fifth. And none of that incriminating information that has been developed by the J six Committee would have been developed if the Department of Justice went for I don't know if this was the plan. I don't know if it's serendipity. I don't

know if it's a combination of those two things. But I can make the argument that it was a smart tactical move. Now my complaint and I think you and I are lockstep on this is it's taken to law law to charge people with the crimes they committed. But that doesn't mean this investigative model unorthodox though it isn't isn't going to be the right model in the long run. So is J six right? Let's let's say this is J six this presentation. Do you believe forcing the Department

of Justice's hand? Have we moved to the place where we're no longer where the world now is front row to the crimes that we're committed, is front row to all of the actors involved, front row to the fact that Donald Trump from election Day twenty twenty until January sixth, was told by multiple people, you did not win the election. There was no fraud. Does this force the Department of Justice's hand to say we have enough to indict because there was will and it is it willful intent because

he knew. So they can't play devil's advocate for his attorneys. What are you saying that Donald Trump did not know that he lost? Like, how would you deny the reality that we're all seeing. Yeah, you can't deny the reality. Now, defense attorneys try to deny reality every day. And that's

not a criticism of defense attorneys. I honor and respect them for the work they do trying to protect people accused of a crime, trying to hold the government to its proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and trying to guard against process a tutorial and police overreach and miss conduct. So I love, respect and honor defense attorneys. But when the facts show their client is guilty, they don't go into court and say, yeah, you got me, he is guilty.

They go in and they distract, they miss characterized, they miss direct because that is their job. Their job is not to lie, but it's to do all those other things. Do they do it convincingly? No, not most of the time. Sometimes, But but you ask the question is this enough for DJ?

Is it going to pressure them? And the answer is yes and no. But it's the answer is all good because now that we had a front row seat, like you just said, the world has a front row seat, and we're going to see all of the evidence that will give DOJ the added comfort level that it needs, not the added evidence, but the added comfort level that it needs to be able to bring these charges and not be credibly accused of doing it for political reasons.

Because one we see Republicans laying out the evidence in these hearings against Donald Trump for the crimes he committed. We see a bipartisan committee of Congress laying it out. It's going to be a bipartisan committee that refers Donald Trump for prosecution. And here's the thing, Danielle, let me go back to the fact that the grand jury is secret.

If we didn't know any of this evidence that we are going to see with our own eyes history in the making these next six weeks, these public hearings, if we didn't see it, you know, when we would begin to see it, maybe two or three years down the road, when we finally had public trials kickoff. Not indictments will come long before the trials, obviously, and we would see it one witness at a time. We wouldn't see the whole picture. We wouldn't see the whole movie. We wouldn't

even see the trailer. We get an opening statement, but that's not as compelling as seeing the witnesses with our own eyes. And with this is what happens during criminal trials with each witness and isolation, the defense forces will amass to beat that witness and that witness the story to a bloody pulp and try to get people to

disbelieve Witness one. Now tomorrow, we're going to try to get you to disbelieve Witness two, then Witness three, then Witness eight hundred and fifty, then Witness thousand, and we would be beaten down when the information about Donald Trump's crimes dribbled out incrementally over the course of months and months and months. Here we've got the whole story that is being presented to us in living color. Then the

indictments will come. That's why I'm saying, although it's taken too long, and although democracy hangs in the ballance, and that's the part I will never be able to get past, this may be a smart tactical approach to this whole big criminal ball of wax. Last question, Gloom, What happens if nothing happens, What happens if this is it? All it is is a docuseries six part You know that

the world is captivated by and nothing happens. That's the most important question right there, and that's the one that's easiest to answer. Our democracy dies. And the reason our democracy dies is because we have seen and we will continue to see the crimes, the seditious conspiracy, the inciting and insurrection, and the treason, flat out treason. Donald Trump, having an allegiance to the United States, waged war, levied war against the United States. And I wish we had

hours to talk about what we saw last night. That supports that conclusion, like he wouldn't call for rein enforcements to defend the capital, so Mike Pence had to assume the duties of the presidency and call for reinforcements. That's pretty damn dramatic. That doesn't make Mike Pence a hero. But Mike Pence did what he could, overstepping is the bounds of his authority to protect and defend the people

in the Capitol. When Donald Trump abdicated his responsibility to do that, he waged, he levied war against the United States. That's treason. So we've seen all this, We're gonna see it all with our own eyes. If nothing comes of it, if no one is criminally held accountable, then ron Da Santis in the horrific event he becomes the Republican nominee because he is a mini Trump. He aspires to be

all that Donald Trump is. On the criminality front end, then some, and on the weaponizing of government front end. Then some. DJ will be giving ron Da Santis and those of his ilk not just permission but encouragement to do everything Donald Trump did. And then some that represents the end of our democracy. DJ will indict Donald Trump and company because one hundred and ten thousand employees there

are not interested in seeing our democracy end. From your lips, Glenn, we will follow this, follow you, and follow and see what comes. If it is at the end of this six part presentation, if it is midway through. But my god, if this happens and we are crickets, don't I don't know if midterms matter, right, is what is what I will say. I don't know if anything matters if there is no movement. So I pray that what this is

is forcing the Department of Justice's hand. Maybe they've already been we know, you know that they've been slowly indicting the foot soldiers, But my god, they have got to act after this. Glenn Kirshner, as always such a pleasure. We appreciate you. Thank you so much for your time. I'll see you next week, Danielle. Thanks. It's no secret

that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca free Er and Tini for a lighter take on the heavy staff. Each week, the Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, and activists to break down the issues in a way that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. Get the Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and

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