A Seat at the Table

called onto the scene. They got there within three minutes and killed the suspect, but not before he could do so much fucking damage. And if you've been watching the reports come in, one of those that were critically wounded was an officer who this I believe was like their tenth or so day on the job. They just graduated from police academy. It's just, you know, folks, it is. We live in the wild, wild West, we really do,

and it is really difficult to come on here. Every feels like every other week there is another mass shooting. And you know, funny enough, but not funny. We are in I believe that this is the one hundredth day of the year and we have had over one hundred and fifty shootings like that. It just doesn't even make

any fucking sense, you know. And what is what is worse about this one is that it is in a red state that has all of these fucking you know, wild wild West laws for ceiling carry and anybody and everybody can get a gun with a slurpee and you know, and they're gonna blame it on oh, this person was mentally disturbed. Do we think other nations don't have people that are mentally disturbed? They just don't have access to

fucking guns in the way that we do. Do we think that anyone else doesn't suffer from some type of you know, mental trauma people do all around the world. That you just that in America you can get a

gun easier. Well, of course, now then you can get like anything, including an abortion which on Friday, six PM, we had two conflicting rulings come down on myth of pristone, the abortion pill, which if the judge in Texas, the Trump backed judge in Texas, if that ruling holds, then myth of pristone, which was approved twenty years ago by the FDA, is another way for the GOP to say, fuck precedent, we don't care, right, so they can pull

anything down, bring anything to court. Law and order is just it was their terminology for the Republican Party and they clearly don't care about it anymore. And so I don't know where we find ourselves, dear friends, but I don't feel like we are in a good place, and it feels like things are getting aggressively worse on a passing daily basis. So I'm trying to look for something hopeful,

Hopefully something good will happen this week. I hope you all had a RESTful weekend, if you celebrated the holiday or you just you know, took some time to do something that was joyful and very much needed. And yeah, because we need to ground ourselves in something, because this ship is just it's increasingly wild every single day. Coming up next, my conversation with my friend and co host

of Democracy ishwjahat Ali. We get into a really good conversation about religion and politics, and you know, talking about the weaponization of quote unquote Christian white Evangelical Christianity, and we talk about Ramadan, which was jahat is in the midst of celebrating and you know the fact that you have this Islam right has one point seven billion followers, and you would think in this country, you know, that says that we are you know, open for all people.

There's not a mention, right, not in the same way that you hear about Passover, not in the same way that you obviously hear about Easter. No acknowledgment whatsoever. And I talk about that with Wasjahat and what it feels like to be in the religion that is so very large, right, with so many followers and practitioners, and not have that acknowledgement. It's pretty much you know, invisible in the United States, and what that feels like. So that is coming up next, folks.

I am so excited to welcome back to Woke Appa Daily my friend and co host of Democracy Ish Wajahat Ali, who is also the author of the book Go Back to Where You Came From and other helpful recommendations on how to become American one. It is Ramadan, So happy Ramadan to you. I realize that while Ramadan is in my calendar, right, it's I have all my holidays that come up, and you know, I reach out and you know, share well wishes to my friends of different religious affiliations.

You get no love in this country. Huh andy, Nobody mention it anytime. No, it is not, it is not. There is no edmurbach On like on any network. No nobody maybe other than Amen or medi will mention anything. Um So, I just like, what is that experience like to be a part of a religion that is like a billion plus strong, right, Like, it's not a small religion. Uh, and yet there is no recognition in this in this country. It Yeah, we've got numbers, we've got challenges and problems,

but we've also got numbers. So if other religions are struggling right now, like I have Jewish friends, they're like, you know what we enview about Muslims. I'm like, what, there's a lot of you, there's only except million of us. It's one of the situations that even though it was born and raised in this country, right and you know this as a black queer woman, we're not trying to

replace anybody. And I mentioned this because the white supremacist and I always want to mention to people it's a white supremacist conspiracy theory that came from the swamps of the KKK Nazis that now over a third of Americans believe because one political party in particular, and one network in particular, Fox has mainstreamed it that we are trying to actively replace and weaken Western white Christian civilization. Right. And I always joke with folks that if you only knew,

we didn't want to replace you. We just wanted to invite to the party. We just wanted some acknowledgment, We wanted a speaking rule. And I say all this because we wanted to be a character with a background. Yeah, character like I don't know, an arc, a name, an arc like something, just a few lines, you know. And I say that because when you grow up in this country, you know, you learn the Christian songs, you you learned of about the Jewish traditions, and Jews had to mainstream themselves, right,

even with Judeo Christian. That's a recent innovation that's only like one hundred years old. Before then, it was very clearly Christian. You would never add the word Judeo, right, Like probably even fifty years ago you would you would have done that. So that's new. The fact that America says, oh Jews welcome, pass over, you know, wonderful Hanuka. Nothing for Muslims, even though, like you said, one point seven

billion people over fourteen hundred years of Islamic civilization. So growing up, you know, we were just like, we're doing eds for something called rama, and your teachers like, what's that? Are you making something up? Like I swear to God we're not. I just need to take a day off. Which day, well, you know, we have to look at the moon. So some people are gonna do Tuesday and some people are gonna do Wednesday. Like what the hell are you talking about it? Like I swear a teacher,

I'm not not a con. And then a few years ago, coinciding with our Muslim brothers elevation of the White House, Barack Obama, you saw a slow you know, our brother who prays towards Mecca and says Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior and celebrates Easter and had a reverend in each sport openly. But I digress. You saw a small trend Danio where you saw the stamp and people are like, well, what is this? Who cares about the stamp?

Like the fact that there's an eat stamp, the fact that Lego in Sesame Street over the past couple of years on Twitter or Instagram, say Ramadan Mobark or Eve Mobark. The fact that Barack Obama and Joe Biden and others in the State Department and the White House iftar. Excuse me, the White House do an if thar right like a Ramdan iftar, and they do a State Department like eat celebration, which, by the way, I want to remind people, the Trumps when they came in, they ended that. Huh, I wonder why.

So that's one of those situations where you asked a simple question. But even if you look at what I just said with Trump, why did he continue the other celebrations and went out of his way to say, now we're not going to do the ead celebration because Muslim even though the first I would say, even though Muslims have been here for four hundred years, a third of the slave trade that was brought here forcibly against its will was Muslim. Our blood, our sweat, our tears, our

labor have fertilized this country. Muhammad Ali, one of the most well known athletes of all time who's given the honor of lighting the Olympic torch for the ninety six Olympics. Muslim even though we're part and parcel of America, we're still seen as foreign, as the other and as them. And it's one of those interesting situations is how do you love a country that doesn't love you back? And how does it feel to be American when your country

says you're both us and them? And that is how it is to be a Muslim and to celebrate Ramadan growing up in this country. But concisely to answer your question the last few years, if you build it, they will come. If you teach people, they'll understand. People ain't dumb. Slowly but surely people are like, Oh Ramadan, Muslims are fascinating, not even water, not even water like. They become more aware, they become more empathetic. If you teach people, becomes part

and parcel of the fabric. Oh halala meat. Oh Muslims

eat really well. Eat Parties are the bomb. So just one of those situations that now at the age of forty two, I feel like my kids will finally get an America where Ramadan and ed and halal is an integral part of the American experience and not seen as something as villainous evil foreign and other you know, it's it's and I love you for giving that his kind of historic breakdown of your experience, because what I experienced over Passover with one of my best friends who is Jewish,

and what she has found. You know, she was raised in a kind of hybrid religion household, but as she is experiencing and witnessing the rise of anti Semitism in this country, she is choosing actively choosing to really really ground herself in in Judaism in a way that she hadn't you know, ten years ago. And what I'm finding is that there are lots of people, whether they are Jewish or Muslim, Christian, even of like in spiritual practices, doubling down and grounding in faith as the world around

us becomes more tumultuous. And so I wanted to get your thoughts because we love to believe that we are a country that has separation of church and state, which I always find so interesting when even on our money it says in God we trust that at the end of each president, regardless of parties, you know, speech, that they will God bless the troops and God bless this country.

Like so it's it's interesting, like we don't pray at school as of right now, I'm certain that a second term President Trump or a president to Santis would have that change. But what do you what do you think about this grounding, this kind of doubling down of faith that seems to be taking hold, you know, human beings since the beginning, since the chromagnet times, ever since we've developed the capacity for you know, language and communication and

higher thinking and art. The latest, the artwork, the earliest artwork of our human ancestors, right depicts some belief, uh, some idea that we're not alone, that there is a metaphysical other. Right. I think it's fundamental to most humans to not necessarily subscribe to an organized religion, but to be spiritual. I remember David Bowie even said, like you know, even though he wasn't religious, but like you know, even

he finds himself like praying in times of immense crisis. Right. So, I think when it comes to humanity, there is it's just something they're always ingrained within our narrative and our storytelling that wants us to believe that there is something, some benelevant force, some being, some and some ether that that is made of love and will will protect us

and comfort us. Okay, organized religion is getting a bad rap because organized religion has been used and abused by many of its practitioners as a sword against the weak and as a shield to protect their power, as a bulwark against modernity and progress. Which is why we shouldn't be surprised n that with gen Z and millennials, there's so many nuns, not the nuns who wear the habit, but n o ns. That's an actual word. So these

are people who unaffiliated. They're like, I'm done with Christianity, I'm done with Islam, I'm done with can lose any organized religion? I'm done. And coming from a religious community, you know, you see all these uncles and aunties freak out. We're losing them. We're losing them. Why are we losing them? It's like what Scott Walker did recently, right, we need to do religion in doctrine. We basically was saying, we

need to do indoctrination skills. How are these Tennessee youth you know, doing these protests and how come they're they're so upset? Ah, We've failed them. Maybe because they realize what you're selling them is toxic and it's killing them and they're rebelling against you. Maybe women want equal rights and maybe quote unquote minorities want to be treated respectfully. And they've seen organized religion used as a weapon, and they've seen the prophets turned into political mascots like Jesus

in this country. So that explains the rise of the n O N s. Now, this what's interesting, just because gen Z and Millennials in particular have rapidly Daniel, like the last fifteen years, like shift. If you look at the numbers, it's it's fascinating. Bobby Jones of pr R I does this. He's like the shift of people moving away from religion and one generation in America, this very

religious country, that's separation of church and state. But you and I, you know, you know you and I know that's bs because the white Evangelical Christians have always been their own party, if you will, and unfortunately that has been a party of violence and a party of white supremacy and not at all. But I'm just keeping it real. But he says, the shift is stunning, But those nuns are still spiritual, Daniel, that's what's interesting. You're still searching.

So it's like people say, oh, they're all leaving. I'm like, they're not. They're leaving you, right, But they're still searching for meaning, for purpose, for community. And I think what the pandemic has done, Daniel, and with the rise of incomm inequality and the rise of isolation and social media,

people desperately want belonging, They want community. They see that materialism and the likes in the Instagram posts and the tiktoks don't give them that sense of fulfillment, which is why I think you're seeing some of these folks double down. The other reason you're seeing people double down is in the face of modernity and in the face of crisis and the face of challenges, instead of expanding themselves, they're

restricting themselves. Instead of creating a store where the tent is bigger and has shade for everyone, they're like, I'm going to make sure my tent protects me and my tribe.

And this is where you see religious chauvinism and white supremacy in Jesus being used as a mascot for you know, for white supremacy and white Evangical Christianity, where it's like I will reject minority, I will double down, I will bury my head in the sand, and I will I will use religion as a sword against my perceived enemies, and I will use it as a shield to protect my power and privilege which is under threat by forces

I cannot comprehend. It's too confusing. And so this is, you know, my explanation of the doubling down in which in one way which is negative, which I hope is clear, and the type of return to it's just laugh all the time, fige it. I always feel bad, like like I never get on the grift because I'm not a good businessman, like like the Gwyddeth Paltrows and the goops of the world are now like frigging charging ten dollars for Tumeric. I'm like tumeric, the stuff that my grandmother

has that we eat every day. That shit is being sold at like whole food for twenty bucks. Remember bone broth, They used to like give away those bones for free, and like Jamaicans and Muslims are like yay, And now freaking white women have discovered bone broth, and now this

crap sells like thirty bucks. You're like mother effing Gwyneth Paltrow and like the whole wellness industry is so amusing to me because all the stuff that we've been doing Daniel for a thousands of years, meditation, gratitude, intermitted fasting, which is I'm doing right now like rich White, So like, you know what we just discovered intermitted fasting and meditation

and tumeric give us a thousand dollars. So that is like a succinct way of saying the return of people in modernity who rejected organized religion but are now going to these old school rituals to find peace. Ain't that something? One?

It's hilarious and you recognize it so much. I mean, I will say, my mother owns a yoga studio on Long Island, and you know, a lot of what has grounded her has been like from her childhood, right and obviously like you know, uh, Buddhism and Hinduism, and then like the recognition that you know her mother was half Indian because my great grandmother was from Calcutta, right like, and so there is just like this connection and interwovenness.

But there's always when it comes to whiteness, there is always this like Columbus saying of shit um and not necessarily an integration. It's like we have found this, and so we're offering your stuff back to you at higher value tumeric for example, oxtail. Okay, well, let me just put it out there, oxtail. I think that what is really what is really fascinating, and this has been my kind of journey, is that I have always been intrigued

by various religions. And you know, I went to a Catholic university and had to take religion of the world, as you know, as in order to graduate, and it was one of the most eye opening. And I think that because I was raised as a Protestant, but not really because I stopped going to church when I was ten and then don't had never subscribed to any organized religion because I thought that it was oppressive by nature. HAVE always been a person that is very interested in faith.

And you and I joke about this weekly on democracy issue when I say I have a mustard state of faith. I have become increasingly more spiritual and more practice and more linked to tradition over the past several years. And I couldn't decide whether that was coming out of the fact that, you know, I'm getting older, or like the fact that the world feels like it's going to ship, and I need to around in something a combination of

all of those things. But I think by virtue of not subscribing to one religion or the other, I have kept this this sense of wonder and interest, and I I have what I realize while celebrating Passover with one of my best friends and our husband, is that that's what Republicans don't want people to have, which is this sense of wonder, this mutual respect and community building and connectedness that allows me to want to be interesting in what your experience during Ramadan is like and what the

principles of Islam teach about that, right while still holding the fact that it's not my religion, but I'm interested to know how one of my friends is grounded in practice on a regular day. Like does that make sense that? Like it does make it? Because Yeah, precisely what it became an aha moment for me is exactly what they're

trying to denounce in a race. I'm not surprised at all, because you know, God is love and God is truth, and all paths lead to God and not everyone is meant to be Muslim or on the path that's according to Muslims, right, But God and nonetheless is the creator. And so what's the role then of the code quote believer or the person who ascribes to the religious tradition. What it should be is that you are on your way and I'm on my way, but you walk this

world and service to God and to others. So when you see how religion, specifically say Islam and in some parts spread, never through the paw taking, never through the sword. Really, how I'm talking about how it really entered heart standing all like, how it really inspired people. It was through men and women who did their rituals, followed their path, were surrounded by non Muslims, and they treated them with kindness, compassion, and love. They gave him shelter when they had no shelter.

They gave him food when they were hungry, They game water when they were thirsty, and they expected nothing in return, and they fasted, They gave charity, they prayed, they had a discipline. And then folks saw that and said, that person seems content, that person seems happy. I want to taste what that person's drinking. And that's how it entered

into people's heart. That's how it stuck. And when you see people like who, then you know convert to religion or become more religious as they get older, and who are stable people? And you're asking me, like, what did it? And they said, someone was kind to me. You know, someone was generous to me. Someone had a type of discipline that I really envied, someone had some balance in their life. It was very attractive to me. It was

very beautiful. The reason why so many people turn away from religion is because what they're offering, and I say for all organized religions right oftentimes. I was having a conversation with the reverend who's also a PhD doctor, and you know, he's Christian, and he said, you see, you're talking about his own church. Corruption, the misogyny, the abuse of power, the taking of the wealth. And I'm like, oh,

sounds like most mosques, sounds like most synagogues. You know, people using an abusing God, the language of God, the prophets to maintain power for themselves and anyone and everything that is hostile to them or threatens that power can be erased. And this is how religion is so powerful, is that you don't with religion and the abuse of religion. You could say I have the celestial stamp of approval to put my boot on your neck? Who are you

to go against God? And by the way, I just happen to be a vice region of God just because I say it right. And so when this happens, Daniel, you see the disconnect as you were mentioned that here you are, that you you know, grew up on a way, but you're not religious. You don't scrap it organized religion. But you find yourself at this day of your life finding benefit and solace and comfort from religious communities and practices.

And you're trying to reconcile how these things work. And I think that's the reconciliation is because this has been around for thousands of years. That wisdom, whether you believe in God or not, has been passed on from thousand years Buddhist Monks, Hindus, Jews. They must be onto something, Daniel. People are saying generation after generation like meditation, breathing, giving

charity helps you. But then once that has been packaged by Republicans as a vehicle of domination and white supremacy and hate, you see what happens when fear and loathing replace love and service. And you see it in the United States of America where they're literally denying children from low income families food and lunch. And you sit there and go, how do you reconcile that with the teachings and life of Jesus, who gave us life for the

most poor and downtrodden. And you don't, because for them, Jesus has been hijacked into a white supremacist mascot with an air of fifteen, who's not even writing, who's not even driving the pickup truck he's writing shotgun. Let me tell you something. You are. You are a prophet in your own right. The way that you're always able to intertwine so many different issues and fabrics of our being to bring clarity to the situations that we are living

with and these complex crises. It's just so beautiful, my friend. I talk too much, but I made today. You did, and you do and I love it and it's why

I love doing a show with you each week. So, folks, if you have not, if you have not what you should have picked up watch this book, go back to where you came from, and other helpful recommendations on how to become American, get it everywhere that you get your books, and make sure that each Thursday you were checking out us our dynamic duo on democracy the Ish, which goes up every Thursday. My friend, I thank you so much for your time, your brilliance and insight. Thank you so much.

I'll be talking to you in a few days. In a few days, yea. That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke a f as always Power to the people and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.