THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR

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Subject to availability. Participating stores only. 18+. Full terms and conditions at starbucks.co.uk slash rewards. Disgust Cause nothing's more Relaxing Than the cries of death So spend a tender hour With boiling and rest Welcome! I couldn't think of what to say, Paul. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Take it. Oh, let's just get it out now. I'm lousy with COVID. We talked about this on the mailbag episode, but if some reason it won't go away. So we're Zooming. And this episode...

It's going to be what it's going to be. Now, Matt, I think I've been watching too many conspiracy movies filled with intrigue. I believe now, and this isn't some fevered, paranoid notion. You've been poisoned with COVID by the higher ups to silence you so you'll stop talking about these conspiracy movies. It has to be. Someone, instead of a poison-tipped umbrella, they had a COVID-tipped.

umbrella. You're in too deep. You don't know how high this goes. Yeah. They didn't want to kill me. They just wanted to lay me up enough that I couldn't record, but they completely forgot about Zoom. That was the one dangling thread. Zoom. Zoom. Oh, man. And so apologies to the baby xenomorphs because you're not being able to live stream this episode, but we'll be back at you next time. Yeah. So I'm Paul Rust and Matt Gourley is here.

Now, Matt, and this is Intrigue We Trust with Grieg and Rust, a.k.a. with Gourley and Rust, the podcast that gives a nice, cozy treatment. to some very non-cozy, thrilling movies. Although I got to say Three Days of the Condor might be one of the most coziest movies we have ever watched for this podcast. Did you just call it Three Days? did and i thought you wouldn't notice three doys of the condor that's like the three stooges version of a conspiracy movie three doys of the condor three doys

Oh, so cozy. Christmas movie. Lots of sweaters and Tweety coats. Oh, my God. Worrying computer machines with a... I was having a hard time deciding what was cozier, the sort of non-digital sounds of old, what would you call them? Like tape computers? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like... Magnetic tape. Acoustic versions of computers. Analog. Analog, analog. What's more cozy that you're listening to in those moments?

Analog computers or Dave Grusin score? Dave Grusin might be the coziest of composers. This was like proto TV procedural investigative jazz. I mean, that kind of like. Beretta, I don't know, like Kojak, Quincy kind of jazz. So it's a little bit more premium, but you can see what's coming in the like when they got to get it done faster and cheaper. Yes. From this. Yes.

And if I could just, oh my gosh, a slow zoom in on a freeze frame. That's where I want to live the rest of my life. A slow zoom in on a freeze frame. The only movement is in post. That's my life. But give some context for our listeners here, Matt. Three minutes of the context. Here we go. And you've had 12 days of the COVID. I know I have. So for people who don't know, who don't subscribe to our Patreon and listen to the mailbag, it's February 2025 right now.

Five years, nearly five years after the age of COVID, when COVID ravaged our country, this is the first time you got it, man. As far as I know, and we did a lot of testing, yeah, this is the first time anyone in my family, my immediate family has got it. And then we all three got it. And boy, when I get it, I really get it because I have had it for seemingly so long. Both Amanda and my daughter, Glenn,

tested positive after me, which leads me to believe I brought it to them somehow via the poison tipped umbrella and have since tested negative and I'm still positive. I don't know what's going on, but man, I got really got a knack for it, but only. Selectively. Once every five years, I get all my COVIDs at once. Yeah. Hey, you know, it might not have been early, but when you got it, you went hard, man.

I, man, yeah. I just feel like I had to make up for lost time, but I had a, you know, a little bit of... It's not pride is not the word because it's just random, but just that kind of thing of, hey, I'm the guy that's never had COVID and now I'm just like everyone else. You're like somebody who... In 1983, never went to a discotheque. But now that you've gone, you go every night.

I still do, even with COVID. I don't care. You can't keep me off those lighted, multicolored floors. Well, like you said. We do have a Patreon and people, you can, long story short, subscribe and do live screaming. You get mailbag episode, feature length commentaries. We just did Friday the 13th, part five.

All kinds of fun stuff going on there. Check it out. Yeah, that was fun getting to do a commentary for Friday the 13th, part five. That's a party movie, man. It is. Yeah. Talk about multicolored. Yeah, I don't know what was more multicolored. The... the cinematography of Friday the 13th Part 5, or those winter coats in the shop where Robert Redford went and hid and found Faye Dunaway. Did you see those winter coats he was hiding behind? Of course I did. That's all I saw when that happened.

Technicolor. Eat your heart out, Joseph. We got some real Technicolor dream coats here. But his name is Joseph. Joseph in the Technicolor. Winter coat? Yeah, raincoat. Were you ever in a production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat? Have you ever seen a production? No. Are you familiar with the music? No. I did a lot of...

but I only did one musical my entire run of theater. What musical? Oh, just the one that I happened to be cast as the lead in, even though I couldn't really sing at the time. What was it? It was an updated version of the Moliere's The Doctor in Spite of Himself called Quack. What the fuck? I know. Quack?

It was written by this esteemed and controversial theater figure. If anybody's really into theater, they might know this name, Charles Marowitz. And he... was this visionary kind of avant-garde theater guy that was such an asshole that he burned all his bridges and was relegated to teaching. and directing theater at Cal State Long Beach in the late 90s when I was there. And so he directed, and a lot of his first words were like,

all right, I don't believe theater is a collaborative art form. You will all do what I say. You're my robots. You, the old hag, come up here to this one lady. And he was just like a cartoon villain. And I was... I was scared out of my mind because I was, what, 23, I think, and a lead in this musical. I had no business being in it. I got it, I think, because of comedic sensibilities.

I had auditioned with this guitar cowboy song that sort of faked that I could sing, but I couldn't sing musical style theater. And I was shitting my pants the entire time. But you know what? Attacked it head on and I wish I could have another go at it and really show Chuck Merowitz what for. Did you guys hit it off? You and Chucky?

No, no one hits it off with this guy. He can even find like a little part of his heart that he's like, you know, I got to say like on the night, but on opening night, he comes into your dressing room and he's like, I'll tell you, I like you. I don't like many people. It wasn't that. I guess there was a little bit of a like, you did all right.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's a good thing, you know, but there's no way to know. And I don't, I think I did do all right. I think that's exactly what I did. I did all right. You're making me realize like in retrospect, I didn't. When you're, well, for me, doing like stuff in theater and theater departments and stuff where it's not a comedy theater and it's not an improv show where everybody's doing it is.

you know, there because they're seen as funny or something. But if you're in a theater department or a theater class with a lot of people who aren't funny. And then a comedy is getting made by the theater department. I didn't realize what an asset it is probably. Yeah. And this was a small pond too. Grad school repertory program. There was about 10 of us.

And that's seriously lacking in funniness. Yeah, you could say that. I mean it. Like, I mean, I'd go to grad student productions and the acting was always like blew me away. I'm like. You should have come to Cal State Long Beach. Really? I don't know. I bet it's good. The timber of somebody's voice, I would be like, they sound like actors. Or the way they would move their body across the stage, I'd be like...

How do they do that? That's like real acting. But then, yeah, they might not necessarily be funny. No. Yeah. And I think I've mentioned this before. This was the grad department that was chaired by the plagiarist dean who... plagiarized Calvin and Hobbes in one of his plays to China. And it was just, everything was just, it was so right. The production was called Calvo and he bees.

Calvo and Hebeys, a totally original piece of art. I think you're protesting too much. Can I tell you? I wrote that as well. I think the Technicolor Dreamcoat stuff got brought up organically, so I wasn't sweatily trying to... put in this anecdote, but can I tell you a very romantic thing that happened to me in high school? Please. I worked at these spotlight in our community theater production of, um, Joseph and the amazing technical spotlight.

Spotlight. The follow up to quack. Was it quack exclamation point, by the way? I believe it was. Yes. Yes. So. This production had been going on, you know, they were rehearsing all summer. And then like early August, mid-August, the community theater is going to finally put it on. And I had done a couple plays there and they needed somebody to run the lights. So they asked me and there was a girl who ended up becoming, this was.

the summer before my freshman year of high school and uh there was a girl in it who acted in it who ended up being my steady high school girlfriend this is how we met I saw her on stage. I thought she was so pretty, so talented, loved watching her on stage. And I was friends with the guy who was the... backstage, uh, stage manager, the person who had like a little headset and would come and tell people like, okay, you got to get ready. The ASM. Okay. The ASM. Yes. Yes. And I had a little.

microphone headset thing. So we would talk to each other because he would let me know, okay, you know, stage time is happening in five minutes or whatever. And... in a sort of something that should, a moment that could have taken place in a romantic play on stage, Matt. I was like, he was talking to the girl I liked through the headset and we were talking to each other. And he said, he knew that I liked this person.

And over the headset, he was like, hey, I'm talking to Paul right now. You have a crush on Paul, don't you? To her, knowing that she knew. He was talking to me. Yeah, he wasn't fooling anyone. He was just brokering a deal for a buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it wasn't like, oh, he's spilling the beans here. She knew that he was talking to her and this was being communicated.

And he said, but you have a crush on Paul, right? And then I heard a little silence. And then he came back and he was like, she said yes. It was like the sweetest thing in the world. Oh, my God. I was over the moon. You must have been. Oh, my God. Also, for anybody who hasn't done theater that's listening.

You've probably heard of the term showmance. I'm here to tell you, brothers, sisters, it's a real thing. Oh my God. It's like a turbo compacted arc of a friendship into a relationship that then... Sometimes ends with great sadness because the play is over and you miss all the people. But man, there's something about the lights and the makeup that you see the person in this glamorous...

you know, way, unless they're like playing Nosferatu or something. I don't know. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, especially at that age. Right. Right. And the excitement of the stages of a. Production coming together can kind of also correlate with the stages of a romance. Because it's sort of like, hey, we know that there's going to be a couple months here until the show comes on. So there's no rush.

But then once the show starts coming together and it's going to be showtime, then it's like, well, now we got to start letting each other know that we like each other before this plays over. And then we went to separate schools, too. So the pressure plus safety of knowing that when this ends, we could just go to separate schools and maybe never the twain shall have to meet. But yeah, and then...

The cast parties after the show starts. Forget it. Then it's fun to hang out afterwards. Look, this is how our great president, Richard Milhouse Nixon, met his wife, Patricia Nixon, in the Whittier community. community theater in my hometown. And that's where they met in a play. Is that true? Yeah. And all of this is to say, it's not unlike when you get your whole work set of work colleagues gets assassinated by a offshoot of the CIA and you kidnap a woman and you just have your own kind of...

natural romance that would absolutely happen when you kidnap someone. I didn't know Stockholm Syndrome could happen that quickly. Yes. I loved Three Days of the Condor. My one... gripe would have been the is the I felt like when they the lovemaking scene I wanted it earned Yeah, and I think even Sidney Pollack feels that way. He mentioned, he didn't mention, but...

Well, I guess he did, but in Brantley's notes, thank you, Brantley. Thank you, Brantley Palmer, for the amazing notes. Yeah, even Sidney Pollack was, it sounded like more like he didn't like how he shot it, that it was a little too artsy and stuff. Yeah, it's my only gripe of this movie too. And I think too, because there's also that scene where she starts apologizing to him.

And he never really apologizes to her or says thank you or anything like that. Yeah. I guess if you cast, like, whoever, Ali McGraw. Her set of characters and what she means to audiences. Hey, she gets a... She gets cancer in her body in Love Story. Sure, she could also come under. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like seeing her as somebody delicate who's thrown into a situation.

That she's in over her head. Yeah. I can see Ally McGraw playing that part. But Faye Dunaway, she ain't no slouch. She's like, in most of her movies, the smartest person in the room.

You know, she did Chinatown maybe, I think, two years before this movie. And Chinatown is like perfectly built for who she is as a character because when you introduce her, you think she's... behind the eight ball but near the end of the movie she's in front of the eight ball and she's just trying her best to get her find her level of status and sort of this hierarchy of different people who are powerful. With this, it's sort of like...

It's not like she's a mole or something. She is really just kind of like a bystander that gets like pulled into this. And at no point does she ever, outside of the point where she's like, I'm going to help Condor here. But that's more just like her kind of dealing with whatever's been... If she's going to be in a spy movie, you'd think she'd be better as the double-crosser.

You know what I mean? Yeah, it's interesting to see her in almost a damsel in distress role. And in Bonnie and Clyde, how she was introduced, she's... maybe sort of first presented as a damsel. And then the movie, as it unfolds, you're like, oh, Clyde is the guy who's like impotent. And... is in over his head and she starts being able to like, um, be at the wheel of how Bonnie, like, it was just, I would say no exaggeration, Matt. I think Faye Dunaway is my favorite actor.

Favorite actress, you know? In this movie or in general? In general. Oh, wow. She's fantastic. I love her. And she's like kind of the perfect film actor where... Her eyes give you, you can see with very little, see what she's thinking and feeling in a moment. Right. And also she's... all her characters are really like bright. Yeah. And she seems to be like a bright actor. And so watching her is like, you know, Michael Douglas is my favorite actor. And I think she's like the...

A sort of Michael Douglas type. Michael Douglas. Yeah. Somebody who can be like gray, have grayness. And, but it's. There's clarity to how she's playing it, even though the characterization might be great or something. And she does, through, I think, a credit to Sidney Pollack for fleshing out this character more than... the book or the original draft of the screenplay, I think, and also her performance. She does get agency and as a part to play in all of this. I think it's...

We'll move on to all the good stuff, but it's just the initial part that I had a trouble of just kind of like her turn to help him. And maybe it's just something of that time that's... It's not to say that... women were like that, but that people would accept that more in movies, maybe. Yeah. And this isn't, you know, like me being like, because I want the world to be a better place. I think she should, her character should be this way. It's more just like, oh, she's a great actor.

A character that has three dimensions is better than somebody with two dimensions. Just on a character level is why I, you know. But, and obviously there are two, like... gorgeous looking people. And so there's natural chemistry between two beautiful human beings, but just like the chemistry between them didn't reach a pitch.

before their love scene where I was like, oh, I'm dying to see these two get together. I want them to get together. It was sort of like, oh, it feels like on a plot level right now, they just kind of have to hook up so that... There's stakes later to when they do the other stuff, you know? Yeah. And I'm, I'm like mildly conscious too, of just knowing how involved Robert Redford gets in his roles in the productions of his roles.

but that Sidney Pollack is obviously no slouch. I just feel like Joe's character has some crossover with what I imagined Robert Redford doing on set those times too. And that like, there's a... upside to that. But then there's maybe also, I don't know why I'm imagining there's a tiny bit of loss of chemistry between he and Faye Dunaway, at least initially, like you said, that I don't know. Yeah. I mean, and then...

Right. You bringing up Redford and his performances and stuff. This butts up against quite possibly a controversial statement, Matt. I don't like... Robert Redford. Really? Interesting. Any movie? I love the movies he's in. I don't love it. Even Gringo? Was it Old Gringo? Old Gringo? The old man and the gun. I love the movies he's in despite or in spite of him or despite him. What's the... He's a little, yeah, he's a little dispassionate. He's always a little disconnected and...

I also see the acting classes with him. Like when he does something with his eyes to show that he's tired. I'm just like, yeah, that's how you would indicate that you're tired. Yeah. Or like when he eats, he does the schmacting thing of like loves working with props and food. And it's just like, it's too, he's. Trying to be like acting in a post-Brando world, but I'm like, you're...

Clark Gable, you're pre-Brando. That's interesting. I like him, but I wonder if it's just because I find the person very charismatic and I can't even see to his acting. I'm trying to think. I feel like in sneakers, he has a good chemistry with Mary McDonald. Yeah. Maybe he's just relaxed a bit by then. And he's also passed that kind of matinee idol. phase of his career so he could just kind of have some fun. Because I feel like that's one of the most fun performances by Robert Redford.

I've never seen Sneakers, man. Oh, really? I think you would love that movie, Paul. That seems like a Paul movie to me. I should have chose that for this. Well, just so you know, I'm at the movie. I've seen Sneakers. Oh, I'm talking about the entire type of footwear. I can't believe you. No, Robert Redford's in every shoe used for an athletic. But you like sneakers? You like it? I do. I really like sneakers. Yeah. It's a really fun heist ensemble. Hey, look.

I didn't want the first things we're talking about, Three Days of the Condor, to be my gripe about Faye Dunaway's characterization or Robert Redford's acting. I love this movie. Sorry, sorry, I got it. We covered that because me too. I was getting into that too. But when's the first... First time you saw this movie? For this podcast. Oh, that's right. And I'd only seen it once before and didn't remember much about it. I just remembered mostly the opening.

And that there's no movie in which Cliff Roberts doesn't play, doesn't have like a heel turn. Yes. Is it Cliff Roberts or Robertson? I always forget. I think he's his son. He's the son of Cliff Roberts. He's Cliff Robertson. Yeah. Cliff Robertson sort of had his own real life. heel turn right yeah what was that why I knew there was something like nagging at me that I couldn't remember what was it he um uh believed that his

agent who later became the head of Columbia was taking money from his checks. That he was cashing some of his checks and taking his money. I guess it's not a heel turn. It's maybe a heroic turn. Cliff Robertson blew it up and was like, hey, this guy's stealing from me. But because... His, God, David Beigelman, trying to remember the head of Columbia's name, got fired over it.

But because he was a hit maker, they brought him back like two years later. And then sort of, well, heck, it's kind of the end of the three days of the Condor end of any kind of conspiracy movie, which is like. You can make your little efforts to bring down the system, but the system is powerful and it wants to keep operating as is. They brought him back to be the head of Columbia and Cliff Robertson.

was on a blacklist essentially where people were like, Hey, we didn't like that. You blew up this powerful guy's spot. You should have kept quiet. I was doing this. Yeah. Oh, wow. So yeah, it's not, he's. It is like a conspiracy movie. Yeah. It's the Robert Redford in this. Yeah. In Cliff Robertson's life, it ended on a freeze frame. Of him being like, huh? What? What did I just do? Am I going to get what I want out of this? Oh, my God. But I know him. He's a...

In Obsession, a De Palma movie in Star 80, he plays like the Hugh Hefner type part. Oh, that makes sense. And then I guess contemporary audiences would know him from the Spider-Man movies. Oh, right. Yeah. As Peter Parker's uncle. Yeah. What are your Robertson connotations? I don't have any other than I just know him to basically.

usually play this role. But now that you mentioned Spider-Man, that's probably... completely changed the like cultural lens on him yeah but I mean like he's the first half you said you remember the opening of this movie the first like I could see myself rewatching the first half hour of this movie infinity times for the rest of my life. So did you just experience this for the first time? So what did you think about that whole? assassination scene. It's so crazy and so good. And the atmosphere.

And the vibe is just, oh my God, it's a rainy day. Yeah. And it's people coming in from the rain into like a cozy place to do, quiet. It's like CIA, I want his job where you just read books and make notes of like, hey. this could be a technique we could use or are people stealing this from us? And he's reading nonfiction, but also fiction. Yes. Job. That job is amazing. I mean, it's every like book readers.

dream job. It's like, oh, I would get paid just to sit in warm clothes at a warm place and read books and let people know. There was a point where somebody says to Redford near the end of the movie, like... Because he's like, oh, I think you're going to do this and that. And that's why I'm doing this. And they're like, wow, you have read a lot of these books, these spy books. That's what it clicked for me. Like, oh, this movie is kind of like...

Like the last action hero with the kid who's seen all action movies. And so when he's in it, it's like the idea of like, what if somebody who loved spy novels? And read spy novels, found himself in a spy novel and can kind of use what he knows about those books as a way to like, I mean, that would be like Matt Gorley's dream.

I know. Yeah. It's cloak and dagger. Yeah. Or cloak and dagger. Right. Right. Yeah. Like, oh my gosh, I'm actually in one of these. That's so fun. I know, but they never, they never like make a meal out of that. That's true. It doesn't become like. Him going like, well, I remember in this book I read, they did this trick or something. What did Harry Palmer do in the Ipcris fight? And there's no like, I mean.

All spy stuff probably has to operate in some world in a post-Bond spy world thing, but it seems like... There seemed to be some sort of like Bond deconstruction stuff of like, he's like, I'm not a spy. I just read spy books. It's kind of like, or like the new Hollywood version of a. Of a James Bond movie. Yeah. Yeah. Or a new Hollywood of Hitchcock and the man. Yeah. Little. Yeah. But yeah, with that opening.

seeing him come in on a rainy day and then go out the back door to like go to a diner. And then, yeah, the, uh, the. titles being in that like groovy retro computer font like in television computer font yeah is that what it like I know it from like Gary Newman, like album title fonts and stuff, you know? So I think the first movie to use computer graphics for titles.

Yes, I read that. I thought it was so funny that it was like, wait, you need a computer to make that font? I guess you can't just like make it on your... By definition, I know. Well, I think they could, but it had existed first because that's what a computer font would look like. And so that's why they used it. And I know it is kind of like...

I was really into that band, the rentals and the rentals would use that font and stuff for like their album. And so, but yeah. What do you think of that opening, Matt? Oh man, it's so incredible because there's no music and there's no glorification or judgment on the violence. It is really, you are just like a... aesthetic distance, attached observer of a group of people being assassinated. And there's no romance to it. It's kind of sloppy, but it's efficient.

And it's methodical. And they're just taking one floor at a time. And nobody knows it's going to happen to them until they see the person. And remember the one guy, his first words are... Wait, wait. Yeah. That seems so real to me. You wouldn't be able to compute at all what was happening, but you know you're being faced with a man with a gun.

you can't even process all you can do is just like at your base level say just like stop try to stop it wait wait and then he's just shot dead it's it's harrowing and it's so it's so well shot it reminds me a bit of like a coppola assassination scene too because there's a lot of people being shot through doors or like when the receptionist woman is shot and she's still holding her cigarette and the cigarette's still burning. Yeah, it's incredible. And were those squibs? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. What did you think of the squib work? Squib work is, it's just like this scene. It's not like overdone. It's just very simple and straightforward. But that guy's, you know, sporting. a Mac 11 or a Mac 10 yeah things fire like those things have such an insane rate of fire there's something like like

I can't remember what it is, but it's ridiculous how quickly those things fire. And you could just see the line of bullets like on the staircase when the old man gets shot. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. that like whatever is the I like how his character is set up that he's like

17 minutes late for work. It's very like whatever sort of of the time that people are going to be interested in this person if he's like a square like yeah it is this sort of like anti-authority person in an authoritative business or line of work And so it is like post hippie or something. It's like. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's got this thing of like.

Hey, man, devil may care, man, flying by the seat of my pants, but I still have a very responsible, important job. Yes. But all the older people in the office are like, oh, Joe, except the younger people. Is it Janice, his friend? Yeah. I mean, I take this outlook too often. It probably isn't always right, but it does feel a little bit like, oh, that's what the...

Robert Redford and Sidney Pollack must have felt being in the studio system. Yeah. There's kind of this old veteran group who's still calling the shots, but you can find your own little position in there to do. interesting work that's satisfying you but you're still like working for the system um and I looked at the um list of um uh A lot of the conspiracy movies that were popular during this run, there's Executive Action, Clute, Chinatown, Cutter's Way, Telephone, Winner Kills.

Telephonomy. The Conversation. The Parallax View. Three Days of the Condor. The Domino Principle. Good Guys Wear Black. Twilight's Last Gleaming. Hangar 18. Capricorn 1. Night Moves. And then the year after this is all the president's men, which is like, if all these movies were coming partly out of Watergate, it eventually just got to like, let's just do the real conspiracy here that we're all sort of...

referencing with these, but I thought it was interesting with like blowout, which is our next movie is like 1981. And it's like the end of these conspiracy movies. like this run. And I wonder if it's like after Reagan is elected, it's kind of like, well, whatever that era of Nixon, GOP. politics is done we can't do these conspiracy movies anymore they're just like not relevant because we have a different it's not Nixon anymore it's Reagan yeah but they're just like not as

Popular for the next, I don't know, 15, 16 years? Yeah, because it really gives way to blockbuster entertainment. There still were like vestiges of these types of movies that were kind of like almost more TV movies. They kind of went to TV movies. Yeah. And then they come back a little bit in the 90s. Yeah. Remember there's the remake of The Manchurian Candidate.

And then even all the way up to Michael Clayton, which I was very close to picking for this series as well. And Michael Clayton uses a line from this movie that... just because you got away with the didn't get caught it's not the same as not having lied or something like that little line is used yeah Yeah, it does seem to be like, oh, the blockbuster action movie was what replaced this. And maybe it is just like the idea of a conspiracy happening wasn't as...

potent or interesting for a decade or so. Well, I think also this Watergate was like basically the nation losing its innocence. And so it had a lot to process. And I think it processed it all. And so it wasn't like people didn't believe there were conspiracies anymore. I think they just all had accepted it. 10 years after or something, you know? Yes, yes. And I guess along with that, if you feel like Vietnam...

It's a conspiracy of sorts where you're questioning. Certainly. Yeah. People's lack of trust in the people making decisions for you. And I love that little. conversation between um with John Houseman when he was talking about like oh I used to like how wars had clarity and um This was during a time before we knew we had to start numbering the wars. We just called it the Great War. We didn't call it World War I because we didn't know.

And John Houseman's great in this. I wanted more Houseman. That was so good. Well, you should check out the Charles Bronson film St. Ives. He's in that. Which is adapted from the book, The Procane Chronicle. You know, Robert Evans, who was the head of Paramount during this time, I think he was pro-cane. So was Orson Welles. Yes, he was too. But you know who was not? The shark in Jaws 4. Was there a character? He was anti-Cain, Michael Cain. Oh, yes, that's right.

You wait that long. There was a not since Jaws to have I seen a 70s holiday in logo in wintertime and loved it more. I know I was even looking at that. And just the lights under that whole awning and a bunch of them are out, not working. It just felt so real. Yes, man. I loved the lights underneath the Holiday Inn awning as well. It looked so beautiful. The interior of the...

what is it? The American Historical Literary Society. Is that the front? The company? Yes. Interior design of that place. It's so good. It's like, that's... Kind of like, you know, we watched Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and they did this kind of retro industrial thing with that. But in the BBC version, it looks more like this place, except even, you know, it's England. So all the hallways and rooms are smaller.

and a little older everybody's a little cramped you know yeah it's funny with like um this with the holiday and logo and then in all the president's men they go to mcdonald's at some point and eat mcdonald's and um Like, it's, you know, it's very easy to be, like, nostalgicize everything, but, like... It's funny that in this time period, corporations had a charm. that they don't have anymore. The Holiday Inn logo now is just so depressing. I know. But during this time period, it...

It meant something. And in Poltergeist, when they like reference Pizza Hut, I'm like, yeah, because Pizza Hut was like special during that time. They're not just this like... owned by PepsiCo and split in three different ways with a Taco Bell and what's the other? Carl's Jr. Yeah, just like, it's gross now. And it's like...

McDonald's when we were kids, and maybe it's just because we're looking at it through a kid's lens, was like one step shy of going to Disneyland, basically. Yes. I don't think it's like just... through our eyes because in all the president's men, it is like they go to McDonald's to have a little burger and fries to talk while before the next scene happens. And I'm like, yeah, in 2025.

two investigative journalists whatever that would mean in this time like yeah you wouldn't set a scene in a McDonald's to be like a cozy place where they go eat it would be like like Panera bread or something. Yeah. And it would be a sign that like the characters are like bottoming out. Yes. Oh my God. They're eating at a McDonald's. I mean, I love McDonald's. I still eat there, but.

It doesn't have the same warmth. No. The same Disney style warmth. Yeah. You're right. When you were a kid, like on a Friday, I'd get picked up from school or something. And I'd be like, could we get McDonald's tonight? And my mom would be like... Maybe. And she's thinking, I don't have to make dinner, but it seems like I'm doing him a favor. Yes. I get to kill two birds. I don't have to cook dinner tonight. And I get to seem like the best mom on earth. And I get to myself.

Eat the cheeseburger meal. That's right. My mom, my parents were one of those maybe means yes. Oh. And there was sometimes you go over to a house and maybe meant no. Yeah. Do you remember what your parents were? My... Dad, I don't recall registering on that scale at all, but my mom was a maybe means yes. I found out a couple months ago I'm a maybe means no parrot.

Is that right? Yeah. Mary asked if we could do something. And I was like, maybe. And she's like, when you say maybe, it means no. And I'm like, oh, no. Maybe it means no parent. Well, I should say this. My mom was a. A maybe means work at her, but you got to put in the work and you'll get it. Yes, yes, yes. Be a good kid. Don't. It wasn't even be a good kid. It was like wear her down, lobby her.

which I was too good at. Every lobbyist now, when they were growing up, they were a kid who had to work to get their parents to take it. I know, I should have been a lobbyist because I remember once lobbying my mom because... When we'd get clothes for back to school, my sister loved clothes and I didn't care. And I kept making these legal arguments to her of like, why? If I just buy a pair of pants and a couple of shirts and...

She gets all this stuff that she wants because it's school clothes. Why can't I have the cash value of the clothes I wouldn't buy to buy toys? Because that's what gives me joy. That is a great argument. No, it's not. I had two older sisters and I would feel that way back to school shopping where I'm like, oh, this sucks that this is more meaningful for you. Yeah.

Going back to school and getting clothes is, is taking the edge off of going back to school. Yeah. Right. For me, it was kind of like, eh, this isn't taking the edge off getting new pants. If anything, it's reminding me that. The end is nigh. Yeah, I would get a book at the beginning of the day of back to school shopping. We'd go to the bookstore. And so I would get to sit with a book I liked and read it while...

clothes shopping was happening. And for like three, four years in a row, they were the Bill Givens film flubs books. A whole book devoted to movie mistakes. Oh, that's so great. And I would plop down and I'd get through a whole Film Flubs book by the end of the day. And then you're like, maybe I got time for some Sniglets.

I wonder if Bill Givens and Rich Hall know each other, Mom. Is the writer of Film Club's friends with the writer of Sniglets, Mom? I'll tell you on Christmas, honey. Maybe. Maybe. I can't wait to go back to school and tell the gang. Cheez-It has arrived. A cheesy new snack that's packed full of intense cheesy flavour. Get your hands on a pack in stores now. Fancy a cheese hit?

If you already prepay for your energy, a smart meter means you can top up at the touch of a button. Whether you're on the sofa... With your little cherubs. At the shops, after the shops have closed. Or when you're cosy in bed, and it's raining cats and chicos. Top up anytime, anywhere. In-store, on mobile or online. Search Get a Smart Meter. Eligibility may vary. Consumer action required.

When we were talking about lobbyists a moment ago, it reminded me, and this fits in with the intrigue movies we're watching where people find out the dirty business of those in power. When I was in fifth grade, I made a video for a contest for the smoke-free class of 2000. which was like a campaign to, Hey, let's kick off this next century class with that. They make a vow. They're not going to smoke cigarettes. Okay.

Wouldn't that be funny if they were just seeing, they just meant like, just go with edibles. the smoke-free class of 2000 we want you to be pro edible start with a nicotine patch yes but i feel like it i made a video And then I got to go down to Des Moines, Iowa, my state capital, to meet our governor, Terry Branstad, to...

accept this award for making a video for the smoke-free class of 2000. And when I got there, I remember we did a tour of the U.S. Capitol and it was the first time a lobbyist was explained to me. And they were like, a lobbyist comes in and they want the elected official to take a certain position. So they come in and they talk to them to convince them to vote a certain way.

And I remember when I first heard that in fifth grade thinking like, that's legal? I thought that was a bad thing to do, to give money and to coerce. somebody devote a certain way just like the sound of it felt right wrong um so that was a little like it was funny like they were supposed to be giving us a tour to make us like

oh, maybe you'd want to work here. And I'm like, this seems fishy. And then we were sitting there and they were like, ready to accept the awards or something. And they said, Terry Branstad can't be here today. He's out and he can't give out the awards. But as they're saying that, everybody's looking over and seeing Terry Branstad walk out of his office with a group of people.

And he heard his name being said like, he's not here today. And he realized Washington in a nutshell. It's so funny. Like what I learned and then. He realized he was caught, so then he came over on the microphone where he was supposed to be standing to give the awards. And he came over and he was like, sorry, everybody, I got called into this other thing, so I can't do this today. And then he left.

It was so fucking disappointing. He was probably going to some like back room, smoke filled lobby, like prostitutes and steak. And then he was like. Yeah, and eating steak and smoking big cigars while he's getting fellated by a prostitute and screaming while he's climaxing, I hate the smoke-free class of 2000. Anyway, that was my own little, you know, the end of a conspiracy movie where I'm like, oh, it is all rotten, isn't it?

So I read that this Paramount logo was the last time for them to use what's referred to as the Canon Canyon logo. Oh, really? That was, I think, made in 1956. A little logo loco here. Yeah. But they said they would use it during... This was the last Paramount movie to regularly use the 1953 Canyon logo. Some later movies, such as the Indiana Jones series, have used it for its retro feel.

So that's a little Logo Loco. This is Logo Loco adjacent, but when the title comes up, the credit, Dino De Laurentiis, I think he should have, for all his movies, gone with Dino De Laurentiis Presentis. It says Dino De Laurentiis presents, but. Yeah, he messed that up. He should have also played Dino in the Flintstones movie.

I know that made me be weird to see Dino De Laurentiis in a purple dinosaur costume, but I would have liked it. I'm all for it. I'm all for it. Also, that this movie is based on a book called... Six days of the Condor. I know. I have that note too. And that they were just like, I think we should just cut it to three. It makes it more tense. That's true. I was trying to think of other...

books that have been adapted into movies that have... Well, Six Days and Seven Nights was originally 133 days and 134 nights. It was a long-ass book. One night at McCool's was originally two nights at McCool's. Eight nights in Bangkok and the joint is jumping. I really loved Brantley's, always loved Brantley Palmer's notes. Loved the notes about Sidney Pollack. I learned a lot about Sidney Pollack.

Oh, yeah. There's some great... And I also love... Let me have to bring him up because I should mention that my little system of judging movies is good movie, okay movie, bad movie. good day okay day bad day right and like tinker taylor was a perfect sunday rain this movie was came on a day when i like was really sick with covid and um our internet went out. In fact, we are supposed to record on a different day, but our...

something short-circuited outside. Interesting. What made the internet go out? COVID and no internet. So I was like trying to deal with that in the rain. It was a bad day. So I feel like this movie deserved. a better day than it got. I still love the movie, but I watched it on a rainy day, which really helped add to the, to the atmosphere. Yeah. I felt like a little, little Redford in my pajamas in bed.

Watching this. And you know, if you subscribe to the Patreon, you get to read all of Brantley's notes too, because they're very thorough. Fantastic. Yes. Like a lot of... behind the scenes photos and stuff. And yeah, the stuff I learned about Sidney Pollack that I didn't know, I didn't know that he like was a total... Everything he learned, he learned from Sandy Meisner, the acting teacher. Yeah, yeah. That he was taken under his wing. And then that essentially he points to Meisner as like...

The way he views art, the way he directs, the way he makes things was all influenced by him. I took acting classes that was taught by somebody who learned under Meisner. Oh, you did? Yeah. You were taught by Sanford Meisner. I did Meisner classes at Cal State Long Beach Grad School Repertory Company, and they were awful. They were awful. I don't think they knew anything about them, and they still taught them.

Before I took the class, I remember seeing two people in a lobby, like doing that Meister technique of like, where you get into each other's faces and you're like. you're blinking, I'm blinking, I'm blinking, you're blinking, I'm blinking. And when I saw it, I thought like a fight was going to break out. It's so intense. I was like, what the fuck is going on? These two people calling each other out about what they're doing.

But I also liked that little detail in the notes about how Sidney Pollack was recommended to Lou Wasserman. Yes, that's what I was just going to bring up. Was Hitchcock's agent who became the head of MCA and Universal. And he paid Sidney Pollack for six months just to...

Be there. He wasn't interested in him as a director because he lacked directing experience. These are according to Brantley's notes, but he nevertheless offered him a salary and the run of the studio for six months in order to learn and observe. And then I love. Brantley's interjection here is, can you imagine if Hollywood still operated like this? What a time. I know. What a time indeed. I mean, Sidney Pollack must have been, I mean, I can only say as an audience member watching.

his movies, but particularly his performances, he must have had some verve to him that made you just want Sidney Pollack around all. Every day of your life. He seems like he seems both avuncular, but like very wise, but also kind of probably has a very fun side to him. Probably. Yes, avuncular and wise is a very good way to describe him, Matt. Who wouldn't want avuncularity and wisdom around you all the goddamn day? Right.

and I you know I know that later Sidney Pollack would cast himself or he would you know he began as an actor and then got in directing and then sometimes would act in other stuff like Eyes Wide Shut that we watched previously but He could have been the Cliff Robertson role. Oh yeah. He would have been so good. He's in Tootsie, right? Yeah. He's Tootsie's agent. That's right. I also noticed. I really like him as an actor. I wish he had done.

Oh, me too. I mean, remember how much we were talking about how great he is in Death Becomes Her? As the doctor. When she's like, I fell down the stairs and he goes, ooh, whoopsie. Maybe he's the same character as in Eyes Wide Shut, the same doctor. Yeah. And he's great in Husbands and Wives as well. I've never seen that. He like... Yeah. I mean, for somebody who is a actor turned director, he's got the goods that most actors would want to have, which is his ability to like any.

he says, sounds like he's saying it in the moment. Like it's popped into his head and he's just saying it naturally. And you believe his authority completely too. He is an actor turned director, but I only... I don't only think of him as a director, but I think of him as a director who acts, but it really is at least equal, if not the other way around. Yeah, he became less interested after...

because they start getting a little too like serious with like out of Africa and Havana. I mean, the firm is pretty good. Uh, yeah. Um, but like done that for this for sure. Yes. Um, I like he directed They Shoot Horses, Don't They? Which is really great. I've never seen that. Don't tell me. If they do or don't. Yeah. But the... What was I going to say? That he... And he did seven movies with Robert Redford. Wow, that's right. I noticed that he has like a...

It seems like a trademark, which is in The Way We Were and this movie and Tootsie, having like two actors have a very intimate scene. on a busy New York street. Yeah. Which is like dramatic, like seeing two people in a sea of other people moving around them, like have a heartfelt conversation is, is moving. Yeah. Yeah. But the other detail that he took legal action against some country because they were cropping three days of the condor wrong. Did you read this?

No. Was that in the notes? No, it wasn't. But he lost the lawsuit. But it was like the first time somebody was trying to be like, you panned and scanned my movie wrong. Oh, wow. And he lost it. Yeah. We should have been his lawyer. Especially with your like, hey, my sister gets clothes that make her happy. Why can't I get some toys?

I would have thrown that in. Not only would you need to stop cropping his film that way, but for punitive damages, you have to give me a hundred thousand dollar toy budget. And then the last credit here that's cool of this movie is the Lorenzo Semple Jr. Yeah. That screenwriter. He's cool. He wrote like the Batman. Yeah. Yeah, Condor Man and Batman. And I think he did Never Say Never again. Yeah, I believe so, yeah. He seemed to be good at writing genre stuff, but not doing it in a...

typical or boring way. Yeah. Like giving it some sense of like fun or like idiosyncratic-ness. Right. The idiosyncratic touch to this is I think what really makes it. Don't you think so? I think so too. Yeah. And like that Max von Sydow isn't. written in a classic villain way. No, and that's how it is in the book. And thanks to Brantley's notes, Sidney Pollack wanted to make him... In the book, he doesn't... He doesn't not...

They added the thing where he's not going to kill Joe because it's like, I'm not hired to anymore. I've been hired to kill the people that were originally to kill you now. Yeah, I love that. Not only that, but... Hey, you should consider doing this job. You seem pretty good. Uh-huh. He's so good in this movie. Oh, so great. He's always so good. Love Lonsaito. And then just having touches like...

When he's in the hotel and he's painting little models while listening to like classical music. I know. I mean, right up there with Michael Lonsdale and Ronan. The choice to not make a villain a brute. And he seems also like he's doing it. He's like the natural extension of what Robert Redford is in the beginning. He's a guy who like shows up late and. Doesn't really know his code name, has to be reminded of it. He's like a guy who's not into the trappings of espionage. He's just...

doing work or doesn't seem to have like necessarily a political affiliation. Right. And so that he found good work as somebody who gets paid well to use his skills, but he's not necessarily doing it because he believes in America. No, none of that. Yeah. If only we could all be like little Vonsaitos. Okay, do you want to talk about Redford's glasses? Yeah. I had a friend who told me he saw Three Days of the Condor and he loved Robert Redford's glasses.

Because they are cool looking, right? And he said... He went to a glasses store and he was looking at them and he found some kind of like it and he put them on, but he didn't buy them because he's like, there's no way to wear them now without looking like a pedophile. I know. I worry about these. current glasses I'm wearing are pedophile adjacent. I don't think so. But I, you know what? I just went for it anyway, but I know what you're saying. Yeah. That there's certain glasses out of time.

Like I would love to wear some of those George Smiley glasses, but you just end up looking like, speaking of Lou Wasserman. Yeah. Why do you, do you think there will ever be a time where you can wear Redford's glasses from? Three days of the Condor, they're not pedophilic. I think they are now back. I've seen a lot of people wearing those kind of glasses. And you don't get those vibes from them? You're like, they seem cool? No, but there is a whole new...

Gen Z vibe that, you know, if ever there is a, not to generalize, but a generation that wears a uniform, it is Gen Z. Not to generationalize. Yes. And those glasses are quickly becoming part of it. So they're erasing the pedophile connotation. But for better or for worse, there's good about every...

and bad about every generation, but I'm now associating those glasses pretty heavily with Gen Z. Yes. What were... I remember a pair of glasses that were popular when I was in high school and college that you don't see very much anymore is the Tina Fey. Yeah, kind of like small rectangle, like narrow rectangle glasses that kind of look a little like techno. Oh, yes. Like Edward Snowden. Yes.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I want an era where like the main glasses that everybody wears are like one of... Elton John's novelty glasses. Or the New Year's glasses, but 2025 would have no discernible eye holes except for the zero. And those are just prescription lens glasses. I should take those into my optometrist and go, I'd like to get these fitted with prescriptions, please. Well, I don't have much more notes. So if there's anything general or specific you want to talk about.

Yeah, let me just, you know, as what happens, I think while we talk about it, most of the notes I keep are covered. But let me see here real quick. Like Faye Dunaway's apartment. Yes. And I love her look post the morning after. She's so pretty. She's so gorgeous. She's got like... She could be Beverly D'Angelo's sister or something. Oh man, I would love a Dunaway D'Angelo sister story. Oh my God. I thought you were going to say something else.

Do you know, I saw Faye Dunaway in a movie theater that I was at. She sat in the same row as me. Really? What movie was it? Orphan. Oh, wait, you did? I think I might have told this story and she was taking notes during it. Why do you think she was taking notes? To vote on it or something? Oh, for president. She wrote an orphan.

Was Orphans the one where they adopt a little girl? I've never seen it, but I think it is. Yeah. Vera Formiga, I think is in it. Yeah. Because she was taking notes mainly when Vera Formiga would pop up. It was almost like... Oh, I want to write down what I see that she's doing and take notes. What do you think Fear Farmiga said? Will you give me notes on my performance or something? Oh, yeah. I mean, I saw it as like...

I mean, Faye Dunaway, like any established actor, is known, I think, to have an ego. And so I was thinking, like, if she... Goes to the movies with the hoi polloi. Does the way she distinguished herself by going like, I'm actually here because I'm an actor and I go to the movies to see what cinema is.

in its present day and I take notes on it or something? Maybe it's an all about Eve situation where she's like, I've decided Vera Farmiga is coming from my career. Yes, and how can I take her down? Oh, I'll bring up how she always has to hold a pen. in her pivotal scenes. Like I am right now. Oh my God, I've become what I'm... The... Oh, I loved that big globe, glowing globe on the wall of the headquarters desk. Yeah.

as long as we're talking that we love Faye Dunaway's apartment. If she had a big glowing globe in her apartment too, that would have been good. That can only help. When she talks to her boyfriend on the phone. I like that guy's voice. I found out later it is Sidney Pollack. Oh, really? There is a bit of an actor cameo there. And I guess he's the guy who says hi to her when she's walking in and he says hi.

And then Robert Redford is like, you should have said hi back to him. Oh, really? I didn't catch that. My Sidney Pollack dar is way off. Well, it was because I read it later. I didn't. Still, I'm disappointed in myself. Some images of the Twin Towers here. Yeah. And then later it was found out that there are like...

There was sort of CIA offices in the Twin Towers. Is that right? Yeah. I guess that doesn't surprise me. There's a lot of office space in those things. Yeah. And it was a good place for people who were coming in from another country. They could go there to do... business, but then stopped by the office. And then I guess when they were attacked, field agents came in and made sure that there wasn't anything left over that could be incriminating. Oh, wow.

So maybe there was something to this inside operation. It was inside the CIA, inside a CIA, inside the CIA, inside CIA job. A Russian, an American nesting doll. Yes. I like, though, that Robert Redford, he isn't just like an everyday guy because he's shacking up with the woman that he works with. in the office. Was that confirmed or just implied? Janice? I felt they felt pretty intimate. Yeah, it seemed like it. The woman in the office at the beginning who gets killed, I mean. Yeah. And then...

When Sam is getting put his bulletproof vest, they were like, hey, do you ever think Redford like boned your girlfriend, your wife? Do you think he was like, was she? Do you think she was the Condors girl? They asked Sam that when he's putting on the bulletproof vest. And then Sam's like, huh? Yeah, wait, what? What are you saying? At least I'm going to live the day out. I did think with like when he kidnaps Faye Dunaway and to get her in the car.

Robert Redford looking like Robert Redford really helps in that situation. Yeah, I think so. Can you imagine if it was like a little skeezy guy with like a pencil thin mustache being like, I'm a spy and I'm going to kidnap you. You'd be like, uh, please. Yeah, that's why I guess. Especially in this time, everybody's just like, well, I'd get kidnapped by Robert Redford. I'd apologize. He doesn't have to say it. He can call me flower if he wants to.

And then I liked her job as like this kind of Diane Arbus style black and white photographer. That was cool. I know. I like the thematic connections between all that too. Yeah, and the little moment when he's waiting for the news to start. Yeah. And he's commenting on her photographs while they wait. Yeah.

My nightmare would be somebody being like, I'm going to take a nap and you have to lay next to me until the nap is over. That was awful. Because she couldn't sleep. She's scared for her life. Yes. I mean, when I was a kid, my parents or sisters would sometimes try to pull that with me. They're like, I'm going to take a nap. Just lay here with me and we'll watch TV while I take a nap or something. I'm like, are you kidding?

I hate bedtime. Now you want to have bedtime happen during the day and I'm next to it? No, thank you. Now I get why my daughter doesn't want to do that. Oh, I know. I try to pull that with Mary sometimes. I'm like, let's just rest here. I'm going to lay down here. She's like, no. And I'm like, oh yeah, I hated it when I was a kid. Yeah. People try to like get those little stealthy naps in. I know. I'm trying that all the time. She's so wise to it.

Stand up. Yes. Stand up. I mean, I remember going to my cousin's house once. I was like long past nap time and my cousin's. Mom, my aunt was like, okay, it's two o'clock or whatever. Nap time. You guys go back and either take a nap or you don't. And I was like, are you kidding me with this shit? What am I? Have I been sent to prison? Yeah, am I being punished for murder? Because that's what it feels like. And then I would just go into a room with sun coming in through the window.

sitting next to my cousin who does fall asleep. It's like, what the hell world am I living? Upside down world am I living in? Yeah, that was always weird when you go to someone else's house and their customs are just slightly off. Oh, you guys eat macaroni and cheese as a side? What the fuck house is this? Oh my God, an aristocrat. That time I spent the night at my friend's house and his parents kissed me goodnight.

Is that true? Yeah. And it wasn't like, I mean, it was creepy, but it wasn't creep. They weren't doing anything creepy. They were very sweet. And just like kissed me on the forehead like they would their own kids. But I just remember kind of going, oh, okay. So you're that kind of family. Yeah. And they bought me a...

Battlestar Galactica action figure and I was like, oh, steep price I gotta pay. I see. I had a friend who was friends with somebody who every other weekend would like... stay with their divorced dad and the divorced dad out of guilt would like occasionally take his daughter to like a toy store to buy her. toys and my friend realized like hey I could get some toys out of this so like when they were spending the night would go hey do you think your dad could take us to a toy store yeah

That's when it works in your favor. I know. I like the... little scene in the elevator between Vonsaito and Redford where he's like, is this your glove? And then the perfectly executed... goofball in the elevator who comes in with a group of friends who's like happy birthday to grandpa and then is hitting the buttons like funny oh my god I want a whole movie based on that guy he's fun How many times do you think Robert Redford has listened in on a woman?

Breaking plans with her boyfriend to spend time with him. I know. That's a regular occurrence. Absolutely. Pulled from his life. Even when he's dressed as the electric horseman. Mike Nichols tells a story about how Robert Redford was being considered for the graduate or something. And he was like, well, you know, this scene would kind of like...

Well, let me ask you, have you ever been in a situation where you're putting the moves on a girl and it's not working? And Robert Redford was like, what? Look at me. It's funny how much Redford has come up as a casting thing for Day of the Jackal. He, of course, was considered for Michael in Godfather for Benjamin Braddock and The Graduate.

He's just like the go-to, kind of the Brad Pitt, obviously. When somebody's that famous and good looking, yeah, taste goes out the window. Whether something's right or not, just goes out the window because people are too dead. Yeah. What do you think would be the, like, if he was cast as like, like if they did a Dolly Parton biopic and he's cast as Dolly Parton?

Have you seen any of his later stage movies? Because he kind of tried to get back into this mode of movie with The Last Castle and Spy Game. And Spy Game is almost like as if... Joe went on to become a spy, you know? Yeah, you're right. I don't know. I'm fascinated by that stage of his career because I kind of like both those movies for what they are. Also, when somebody tries to make a movie later that in some way kind of harkens back.

An enemy of the state, I guess. Yeah. Gene Hagman's supposed to be playing this conversation character. Right. But even recently, I was thinking about, you know, second favorite movie of all time, Matt, for me is Shampoo. Never seen it. Town and Country, that Warren Beatty movie from like 2001 or so. Wait, you've not seen sneakers, but you've seen the actual bottles of hair soap.

Ironically, I've seen the movie Shampoo, but I've never seen actual shampoo in my life. It's because I put in conditioner first and then it gets in my eyes and I can't open it up to see the shampoo in the shower. All right. That's pretty stupid what I just said. But Town and Country feels like it's sort of like if Warren Beatty's character from Shampoo was now married.

But Town & Country is really bad. If you have a choice between seeing Shampoo or Town & Country, go with Shampoo. Okay, I will. My favorite sequence, I think, Matt, was the mailman sequence. Oh, yeah. That guy's, he's good casting too, because he's not like a typical henchman, but there's something sinister about him.

Yeah, he was perfectly cast because he looked like a mailman when he had to look like a mailman. And then when it was revealed that he was a henchman, he looked like a henchman. How did they find him at her place? Wondered the exact same thing, Matt. I don't have an answer, and maybe people can tell us. The only thing I can think of is Max von Sydow. They took pains to show that he was looking at his driver's...

or his license plate. But I don't know how that would get him to that apartment. And I guess later he does say to Von Saito, you sent the mailman after me. So we're supposed to think it was Von Saito's doing, but how he did it is... Yeah, I didn't catch that. Let us know in the comments and smash that like and subscribe button. Yeah, that...

How Vonsaito knew actually reminded me of my favorite line from the movie when he's like, Redford asked Vonsaito near the end, like, why is this happening? And he's like, I don't concern myself with why. Only when, sometimes, where, and always how much. Perfect. Oh God, I love that. But I also love the mailman thing, just how it unfolded. where it seems normal, then the audience becomes suspicious. And then when that fight breaks out, that was some like from Russia with love, no score. Yeah.

all sounds, and then kind of this clumsy, like the rug pushing up and then sliding and falling into the couch. That was a great action sequence. It's a great, great sequence. The... Yeah, I didn't. Part of my problem with the Kathy character was that sequence where she goes into the Twin Towers to help him. I'm like, it's too risky for her. It's too risky for Redford.

This felt entirely like a plot contrivance. It might have worked in six days of the Condor when they had more time to do that. But three days? Come on. And this was sort of, I thought this was just a cool little parallel that they were making this movie about. hypothetically, about a CIA inside the CIA. But then...

While they were making it, and then whether the New York Times would print the story, the Pentagon paper story is sort of unfolding during that time. Yeah, and there was that other issue too of like a little... scandal within the CIA. I forget what it was. And so it was super timely by the time this came out. Yeah. But it wasn't planned. Yeah. What a neat little parallel there. Yeah. Another thing I liked is...

what the technology of that big blue phone that he uses to like hack into the phone system. Yeah. Those are the, I want one of those. Those are those things that phone men used to carry around. Yes. Yeah. I know. What are those called? Big blue phones? No idea. No clue. I also thought the technology that was all of this stuff I like bought, I would like believe in.

The one that I thought was a little like was when they watch like a weird blue tinted surveillance video of a car that Von Saito had previously like blown up. Yeah. Is the idea that they just have cameras everywhere recording? I know that there's a little bit of, you can feel the seams because they changed a lot of the story.

it feels a little bit like they're doing some of it on the fly. And so certain things don't fully add up. And the conspiracy at the end of it being about oil with Atwater and all this stuff, it works, but it isn't like... It is perfect. I wasn't looking for a twist, but it wasn't 100% satisfying. But I don't know. You can count on one hand these type of movies that have that kind of satisfying.

True. To them. They're not about that. They're about the Byzantine plot and the machinations and stuff. And so almost... you almost should be disappointed when it's revealed because it has to be revealed through 18 different levels. So you never get that one Eureka moment. And I think there's something I like about that because the pressure of a twist is off. It's more...

the journey that you're going on, usually with the person who's caught up in the conspiracy. And so the resolution isn't about... a satisfying plot reveal. It's about the release of being safe, kind of like the danger being over. True that. That's well said. Yeah. Cause like I liked the, the oil explanation, like. That it was oil wasn't necessarily satisfying, but then Cliff Robertson's explanation of why they're doing it, it's like...

believe me, if people couldn't get oil and they couldn't get heat and then they couldn't get their food, that's what would really... Yeah, like they'd be happy we're doing all this to make sure. That was the thing that felt most... Timely, living in this era of tariffs and stuff. And true. It's only a conspiracy because it's happening before the fact. And like he's saying, if it's happening out of necessity, no one would have any issue with it.

Yeah, right, right. And that people, when their needs start not being met, is when people are more inclined to be like pro... American empire. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Whatever, whatever do you mean? When COVID started, I was like, uh, and. The threat of not having toilet paper was so real. That's right. I forgot about that. I'm just now getting COVID and all our toilet paper just disappeared over and over.

This is a real connection here. You look over and you see me like spaghetti noodle style slurping up toilet paper into my mouth. With chopsticks. I thought it was weird. Did they say Chevy Chase Maryland at some point? Yeah. I think I must have had a different version because I could read the lips saying Chevy Chase Maryland, but they said Fletch Lives Maryland. Isn't that weird? My version said cops and robbersons.

In Glendale, when I go to the Americana Mall, I drive by the car dealership from vacation. Oh, is that where it is? Yeah. Which one? Well, there's so many, but you can see... And everything's been remodeled, but you can kind of see the corner of where they drive out the... The family truckster. The wagon queen family truckster. Yeah. And where that corner kind of connects, not the corner of a street, I mean like the corner of the building where the mechanic...

garage connects with the dealership area, that's still, you can look at it and go, oh yeah, that's where Clark and Rusty are. Do you know which dealership it is though? What brand? Let me find out. The funny part is it's right next to like Chevy Chase Avenue in Glendale. I bet there were some real laughs on set. I know. People being like... God has ordained this movie. Chevy, did you see that? Fuck you. Oh, I just wanted... Your name is on the... Yeah, fuck you.

I've said the F word a lot in this episode. Have you noticed, man? I'll mark this episode explicit. Yeah, E for... exciting. Oh, you should get those glasses. I'm looking it up. Here we go. Here we go. Okay. Well, you know, while you're looking it up, I'll do a couple of quick, read a couple of quick xenomorphs. Oh, awesome. Please do. All right. Michael Sivins. Shout out for...

Oh, no, sorry, Allie Sivins. It's being shouted out by Michael Sivins to Allie Sivins. And he got that gift for his wife. Oh, how nice. He got that gift for her. Hey, that's nice. Oh, and it's supposed to happen by me, the Southern lawyer. Today, I'm not going to argue on behalf of a killer or a murderer. I'm going to argue on behalf of a little Mac Oily getting a hundred dollar toy budget. All right. This is Dennis Farina.

And I'm doing a shout out for Frank, Nick, and Derek, who are the sons of Greg Czerwinski. Shout out. Oh my gosh, this is a long one. Okay, we'll come back to that. Will Sisko would like a shout out. Hello, this is Melvin Bragg. And this is an episode of In Our Time. I'd like to introduce our next guest, Will Sisko, who's the Fulbright Scholar and the Toadstool Fellow at Cal State Long Beach. Welcome to the show. And I'm sorry, Will, you asked if...

You could have met me because I was at the TJ and Dave show in Chicago this week. No, I've been homesick with COVID and have not been in Chicago. That was not me. Somewhere out there is my doppelganger. Going to improv shows. Look out. And finally, Seth Pidot. Oh, boy. Oh, this is for... Flip, his brother, who's a new baby Xeno subscriber because of the gift that he gave him. Oh, that's great. Okay. Shout out to you, Flip. All right.

What was the one you skipped, Matt, that you wanted to go back to? Oh, this is the one I'm just reading. Oh, he wants it done in the style of Mr. Mom's Huffy tirade when Michael Keaton gets defensive about his beard not growing in in an unwashed... Do you want to take that? Yeah. What's the name? Flip. Oh, okay. Well, you have been wearing that same flannel shirt.

You haven't shaved. You remind me of Orson Welles, unlike Flip, who's got his life together. There we go. Did I sound exactly like Terry Garr? You nailed it. Terry Gamos, Terry gone, Terry Gimos. I'm conjugating Terry Gar's name in Latin. Yes, in case anybody didn't understand what it is. I have the address. Okay, good. It's 900 South Brand Boulevard in Glendale. And it's the Dodge Chrysler Jeep Ram Lot.

Oh, okay. That makes sense. That's where you can see the family truckster emerged. I'll do it. The... Last... I really also loved that Atwood sequence where he woke him up by playing a record loudly on the record player. And... Oh, and this is when he's got his peacoat on too, Robert Redford. Yes. Which he takes from what we now know is Sidney Pollack's collection. Peacoat collection? Well, because Sidney Pollack is the boyfriend of...

Kathy, and he takes it from her closet. Oh, yes. I also thought it was a little like Pollock-y in that... encountering a guy who was part of the conspiracy at home at night in his den felt very like eyes wide shut. Like I wanted like a big pool table there while they were talking. And then when Von Saito comes in and appears behind him and shoots him, I was like, that could have been a pretty good ending for Eyes Wide Shut. Oh, yeah. Von Saito comes into the pool table, the billiard table room.

shoot Sidney Pollack's character and then says to Tom Cruise like, you want to hang out? You're a lot like me. And then... Yeah, I really loved that ending. That last scene was pretty incredible. Yeah, and it does have a satisfying semi-reveal of that there in front of the New York Times building, and that's... And the kind of slight open ending of Cliff Robertson going like, are you sure they're going to print it? Meaning...

like we can control them too. You like, so there, he's not out of the woods at the end of this movie. Totally. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, like Chinatown or Raiders or whatever. I like those. You won, but you didn't fully win endings. Yeah. I guess in Chinatown, the win is very small, but like... I don't know. Those endings feel very true. Yeah. I like them. Yeah, me too. All right. Well, what are you going to give this baby? I'll recap.

What so far has been one of my all-time favorite seasons here. The day of the jackal, you gave it a 12, I gave it a 13. Tinker Tailor, you gave it a 13. I gave it a 14, which makes it the highest rated movie we've ever covered. I still feel like I somehow inflated that. No. And then... What are you going to give three days of the Condor? I'll give it 11. That's what I'm doing. Yeah. And then next week we got Brian De Palma's blowout.

Can't wait. I watched for the first time a few years ago and really enjoyed. So I'm looking forward to that again. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Very excited to watch. Me too. Rewatch it. That ends the Matt Gorley portion of Intrigue We Trust. And now we're on to the Paul Russ selections. Yeah, it just worked out that way in terms of the chronology, right? That's right. And then does that mean we will do... Are we going to do it before Crimson Tide came after?

In the Line of Fire. In the Line of Fire, but Patriot Games came out before In Line of the Fire. So yeah, we'll do Patriot Games. Blow out the Patriot games in the line of fire. All right. Thanks, my friend. Thank you, Matt. Oh, also, that reminds me. I once ranked the movies I liked and it was a shampoo was high up and then it ended with blowout and Scott Aukerman pointed out that.

My movies rank as the same thing that happens when people go to a beauty parlor. Oh yeah. Shampoo and a blowout. Oh my God. And then Die Hard's in there, but D-Y-E. No, that's stupid. What about, is there a movie called like Soul Survivors? All right, friend. All right. I went from shoes, from hair to shoes there. But you can tie your shoes. The guy that's never seen a sneaker.

You got to watch sneakers. Yeah. You know what? This is my vow. Before we record the next episode, I'm going to try to look at some sneakers. Oh, no. Watch the movie. Alright buddy. I'll see you next time. See you next time. Bye. For more Gourley and Rust content, head over to patreon.com slash with Gourley and Rust to get episodes ad-free and a whole week early. Plus, monthly mailbag episodes and feature-length watch-along film commentaries of your favorite horror classics. That's Patreon.

And your questions might be featured on a future mailbag episode. with Gourley and Russ theme song by me, Matt Gourley, and performed by Townland. You can find us on Instagram as Townland Band, as well as Paul's fantastic band at Don't Stop Or We'll Die. And why not rate and review with Gourley and Russ on Apple Podcasts? It'll help us grow the show and keep us trucking through the Jasons and the Michaels, the Leatherfaces and the Chuckies, the Aliens and the Candymans.

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