SUPERMAN

Pam, pam, pam, pam. Bum, bum, bum. Pam, pam, pam, pam, pam. Well, we nailed it. I did anyway. That is my favorite piece of music from an already incredible score with amazing themes. But that little dawning on Krypton. motif or whatever that is. Hey. Speaking of the dawning of Krypton, what about the dawning of the soups on scene? What would you call it? Well, I think we were saying soups on, like Superman's on, and then it went to Susan, and now it's in Susan we trust with...

Gusan and Russ. Oh, and Groupon and Russ. That's what it was. Oh, hello, Mr. Groupon. In Susan, we trust with Groupon and Russ. And this time when I went down to the Norwalk County Recorder to legally change my name to Matt Groupon. This is the first time I really got some pushback. Oh, because they probably are like, we don't want to start a precedent where corporations and online companies can...

force regular citizens to change their names for some weird viral marketing. And so when I explained to her that it was a movie rewatch podcast, she was like, that's cool. And what's it called? I said, well, it's called In Susan We Trust with Groupon and Rust. And she goes, this all makes sense now. Stamp approved. I'm Max.

Groupon. And I'm Paul Groupon quotes Groupon Rust. That's the confusing thing. Groupon's my last name, but Paul, you are a huge Groupon hound, right? Yeah, my nickname has always been Groupon. Even before Groupon. Why would we have not switched? I mean. Well, it originally began because I loved Grey Poupon. That's right. And it was taking too long for people to say, hey, Grey Poupon. So they just.

Yeah. To Groupon. And then Groupon came along as a, you know. But when we do eventually cover the Human Centipede series, we'll call it Poops On with Gourley and Poop On. Well, as long as we're talking poop here right now, man, I will read to you the last note of the notes I took while I was watching Superman. You know, there's different, we have different.

insights and reactions and thoughts and feelings about this movie that will be fun to share. But I think the most pertinent one to share is do you think when Superman reversed the world at the end, some guy was taking a poop? And then when he reversed the world, the poop went back up into his butt. Man, that's a good question because that's...

That's just the least of the paradoxical problems with the... ending of this movie can you imagine though a guy just sitting there and then i don't know we're like what happened did superman just reverse the world or something and like someone that just ate a subway sandwich had to vomit it all up oh yeah actually i would prefer the reverse poopitude rather than the reverse barfitude if I had to choose. And what if people were having sex? Because the motion would still essentially be the same.

Yeah, think of how many babies are conceived every... All of those conceptions were reversed by Superman. And then re... spawned again and then respawned yeah So yeah, I guess it still happened. It's not like then the tape ended. He just rewound the tape and then the tape continued. But there's so many issues. Does it reverse time is like cellular and the same as cellular mitosis? Because even in that five minutes, I feel like...

A sperm that would have made it a different one would have, and you've changed the course of history, not heeding Kal-El's advice. So maybe the two people who were conceiving... the next Einstein. But then when the, when it moves back forward, it made Solomon Grundy or yeah, like a classic Superman villain, like Solomon Grundy. Yeah. Ooh, that would actually be a cool little.

Did you know, Superman, this arch nemesis of yours was created when you reversed the world and changed the sperm from Einstein to Mr. Oh, yeah. Look, we're just picking. admittedly, a huge nit. I feel confident in saying we both adore this movie. Oh, I adore this movie so much, Matt. Yeah. And... When we get to that nit to pick.

I actually adore the reverse. I do too. And just the story behind it, because it wasn't the original ending of this film, right? Right. It was going to be the end of part two. And then when they realized the movie was. getting over budget and they were going to have to reconfigure things and they moved it up. But I think it's a... It's a knockout ending. And it fits with what the movie starts with. I think it is a good ending for part one because you have...

Brando at the beginning and say, hey, you can't do this. That's forbidden. And then also the connection with the Jonathan Kent. What were my powers for that? I couldn't save my adoptive father from dying. this, he's like, well, screw that. I'm not going to lose two people. I lost my dad. I'm not going to lose Lois here. It's pretty great. So it even works. I think if it had happened in part two, you'd kind of be like, oh, the stuff that got set up in the, but I mean.

Well, there's so much to talk about. There's so much to talk about. Because this may actually be one of those rare times where we're getting new listeners because this is not only a break from the genre that we're known for in this podcast. But it itself has some legions of fans. So in fact, I am Matt Corley and this is Paul Rust. And I want to say welcome back to all of our old listeners that we love and adore. And then welcome.

here forward. Welcome forward. Welcome reverse Superman forward. Welcome post San Andreas nuclear earthquake. And welcome to those listeners. Yes, please. We're happy to have you join us. It's a fun hang here on this podcast. A little bit about us. Well, this podcast, we tend to take our time. It's easy listening. Cozy cast.

That's right. And we have a Patreon, actually. So this is just really the tip of the iceberg. We do the regular movies here. But you can get these episodes ad-free in a week early on patreon.com slash with Gorley and Russ, plus mailbag episodes. commentary episodes, and we've already decided either the next or the one after that.

commentary will be the Donner cut of Superman 2. Not the Donner party cut. You don't want to get cut by the Donner party. Nor a specific type of meat from a specific reindeer. This is the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2. We'll do the commentary for that. Otherwise, this season is a mini season of the four Christopher Reeve Superman movies. But we got...

commentaries on there. We've got all kinds of special stuff. Paul's been doing a lot of solo commentaries. I just did one for a body double. That's right. And, um, uh, On the trustees, as our friends on the Patreon are called, one of the trustees wrote, everybody always says nice things about the commentaries, but somebody said, Pause commentaries. are better than the ones on like...

Kino Lorber and Arrow. I believe it. I read that. Meaning like your, your depth of knowledge for these things, not just your joie de vivre and commentary style, which I'm not even joking. Details and information, like the body double one. I just read.

read this book double diploma that's about that's not published anymore but it's about the making of body double so I took some info from that and shared it but I don't want to crow You know, you want to have humility like Clark Kent and Superman himself. Comparing your humility to Superman's, is that in itself not a humble thing? That is the humblest of Braggs. I liked...

it felt good to read that, but I'm also, yeah, I'm proud of these commentaries. I like people listening to them and stuff. And you can listen if you subscribe at the baby Freddy level. That's right. There are four levels of subscription tier. And if you wanted to be listening to this, As it's being recorded live, we have the live scream. That's right. And that's happening right now. I live scream. Hi, guys.

Some fun folks here joining us. Everybody's stoked for the beginning. Let's just give some of them a shout out. We got Sonia, Chandle, Josh Legle, Sophia, Michael Lindell, Jeff. Josh, those are the people active in the chat right now. Welcome, everybody. Yeah, you can also get your name. Julius just joined us. Shout it out in a proper form by subscribing at the Baby Xenomorph level. Say your name. Baby Jason, Baby Michael, Baby Freddy, Baby Xenomorph. That's all over there at Patreon.

Come along. We're doing some great things over there. We're changing the world. Maybe just, it doesn't, we don't have to officially change it on the website, but maybe like the levels are like baby Otis. Oh, yeah. And then the three, the baddies at the beginning, the Terrence. Oh, yeah. Ursa, Zod, and Non. Look at you pulling out those days. That's cool. Well, I've long, long wanted to dress.

like this for halloween and i many times tried to wrangle specific friends into this me being zod not out of again out of like some lack of humility but i just have features and hair and everything. But now, especially, I want Amanda to be Ursa, I want to be Zod, and I want Glenn to be Non. My three-year-old daughter. And I also possess a sister-in-law who's amazing at making costumes and goes all in for Halloween. So I don't know what I'm waiting for. Like all 70s fashion, those things look...

So hot. I know. I mean, Sarah Douglas, maybe the hot temperature. Oh yeah. You put them on and you're like, there's no breathability and it's sticking. And it's like. Getting back from the Studio 54 and peeling off your pantsuit. Same with those. This is a big time. This is a big year for... like cinema screen reflective costumes in movies, this and Tron. Yes.

And a big time for miniature dams to blow up. 1978, Force 10 from Navarone and Superman. Speaking of a commentary, we did Force 10 from Navarone. That's right, we did. It was also the same year, 1978. I just watched a Siskel and Ebert special that's like the end of the year. A variety special of them just singing and dancing at Christmas. What would it be? It would be like a thumbs up. I really like his shirt. Thumbs down. He always talks during the movie. Thumbs up.

We're two Chicago film critics. But they did a thing that was like a review of 1978. And this is like that year it was Superman. There was one, oh, Greece. And Forrest 10 wasn't included. And Forrest 10 was actually the first. Is that one of the big four? I know that to be one of the big four of 78, the Mount Rushmore of 78. But it's really funny because they're in the middle of a sea change. This is three years after.

Jaws when people are like oh that's when you know the new Hollywood changed from like personal left to center, anti-authoritarian movies or anti-authority movies came and got swapped out by like the blockbuster movie that we know today. But they were like...

Oh, 1978 is when there were more movies like that, that were like escapist fare. They kind of do some little chin scratch and they're kind of like, Oh, why, why is America into escapist movies right now? And then at the very, very end, they say this, like. thing that would probably become the mantra for the next until Siskel died and beyond, which is like, we just hope that. Hollywood will continue to make movies.

for grown-ups and they don't get too far with the escape. I was like, boys, you don't know. But even the way this like sits in that like kind of weird, I mean, I think even more than Jaws and... Star Wars. You know, it's the writers of like Bonnie and Clyde wrote this. And like Jim Hackman and Ned Beatty, who are like huge. And Brando. And Brando, like people who were known for these like gritty New Hollywood.

It's not like Mark Hamill. They literally had to move filming from production in Rome to England because Brando had an arrest warrant out for his sexual assault on Last Tango in Paris. Oh, like for obscenity charges. Well, was it obscenity charges? It wasn't the butter thing? I don't know. No, maybe you're right. Because I think that butter thing came out later.

That sounds, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to make light of it, but that sounds wrong. Yes. But the point is, is that this is the Godfather kind of Brando grittiness. Puzo, Mario Puzo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apparently there's very little left of his script. Yeah. 300 pages, that thing. Thanks once again, if you're just joining us, we have the most wonderful researcher. Brantley Palmer yes thank you Brantley there are so many gems in there the production of this film is maybe one of the most

fascinating productions for me. Just in terms of casting. Oh my goodness. Alexander Salkind. Oh my God, what a character. Yeah, and they clearly want to be the... the broccolis for a new era or broccoli and who's the? Saltzman. Saltzman. Yeah. Salkine, Saltzman. Yeah. There's too much salts on my broccoli, man. What kind of salts, man? Oh, the Salkind. Close Encounters of the Salkind. But like, I mean, this

it does feel like its DNA is in the James Bond movie, don't you think? And didn't they want Guy Hamilton to direct it? Pinewood Studios, they wanted Guy Hamilton to direct. Yeah. Especially when we get to Richard Lester directing Superman 2.

you'll feel a lot more of the kind of... Mankiewicz writing this. Yeah, Mankiewicz is a big one. Who wrote the James Bond movies around this time. Just a creative consultant on this, but because I think clearly due to a technicality that he couldn't get a credit, but I think he's probably... he's probably got the most influence on this movie as a writer. And Richard Donner.

Uber mensch, Superman, goes around, kind of does his own world reversal, breaking the rules by even giving him the creative consultant. Yeah. He's doing out of his way to make sure Mankiewicz gets his credit. It's been quoted as saying after Puzo's draft and the Bonnie and Clyde writers that after he read the script is like... wait, I will do this, but I need to protect Superman. And he brought the sincerity back to it. He said also a million dollars wouldn't hurt.

But he also said a million dollars wouldn't hurt. But that's amazing that this... I think, truly fell to the right person at the right time. Spielberg was, Jaws hadn't come out yet. He wanted to do it, but was too, I think, untested for Salkheim to give him. And then by the time Jaws came out and Superman 2 or 3 came along, he was gone. And Richard Donner is following up The Omen with this. Yeah. Have you ever seen that cool Goonies?

teaser trailer where they spell the Goonies out by taking a letter from each. uh, from a production from a Donner movie and a Spielberg thing. And then they put them together kind of like a ransom. It's cool. So like the G is from gremlins. And another O is from Close Encounters. Oh, my God. And then a Raider's eye gets used and stuff. And a Superman S gets used and stuff. How great. If a guy...

Kidnapped somebody and could only use movie titles as a way to cut the letters out and send the ransom note. You're saying that teaser for the Goonies is a kidnapper's ransom note? It's the Fratelli's ransom letter to the Goonies' parents about, come pick up your kids. But yeah, the production on this is like, it was a major production. It's just the idea of like two European... movie producers who go and package this like behemoth of a movie by making all these.

Huge deals with actors. Apparently oversold the percentages. And like the producers, would have been absolutely... screwed if the movie didn't make its money. And then some amazing. This, I just want to read a book about Alexander Salkheim because I'm also very confused. And I understand intellectually what's going on here. Why Superman, the movie. is kind of almost a spare no expense. Put the money on the screen. It looks gorgeous. The production design is amazing. The music, everything.

And then the amount with which he cuts back on the budgets and how cheap they exponentially start to become as they go on. When you think- Like the bonds would do the opposite. They would get bigger and more lavish, you know, and you might argue to a fault at certain points, but this one.

It's just crazy. And then all the legal wranglings, he just seemed like quite a shyster. And then when you factor Marlon Brando into that, and I don't know, it's just fascinating to me, all of this and how... made in the time it was made but it was some escapist entertainment in post Watergate in Vietnam that

Even studios didn't think necessarily people were going to key into as much as they did. And then also that they had to deal with the restrictions that DC Comics, the newly named DC Comics, put. on this like 56 page document. This is all from Brownlee. It's amazing. Something like that. All the restrictions about Superman has to act and be a certain way. And their list of 25 approved actors, including Charles Bronson.

I'd imagine Charles Bronson as Superman in the Fortress of Solitude when he holds up those little tubes. Yeah. And he puts the little green crystal into the tube or the information into the crystal into the tube. if you held it up and it was like, what's this for? It's for jacking off. If anybody wonders what that reference is, go check out our 10 to Midnight episode. Oh, I shouldn't have corrected that.

We probably don't have any new listeners on this because all our new listeners came in on the 10 to midnight episode. What's this for? Jack it off? All the 10 to midnight heads. Yeah, that was a different movie with Charles Bronson. Ever seen Charles Bronson in this era without that. long, thin mustache. So Superman, it'd be like Cesar Romero is the Joker. They'd just have some weird flesh-colored lump on his upper lip. Like what Dan Aykroyd used to do with the...

early SNL seasons where he would just like paint over his mustache. It's like, we are so in the seventies. I know. I am not going to cut my facial hair. Are you nuts? And Eric Idle would always wear these short wigs, but they made his head look like a grape. Tuck his long hair up under there. I'm just, I don't know. I'm fascinated by this because also we can get into this too.

experience with this movie. I saw this in theaters. Please share, yes. I was about to ask. I've mentioned before that I... and basically told I saw Star Wars when I was four. I have vestigial memories of it, but I don't know if those are re-releases or what. I remember seeing, I was five and I remember this experience.

December, right? It's like December. I guess so. See, I don't have any. Christmas time. I know we went to this little outdoor mall called Fashion Square in La Habra, California. Yeah. And we went. I'm conflating this with another memory because we would go to this restaurant there called The Fiddler's Three. And I remember I was also wearing a plaid sport coat. Oh my God. And I'm pretty sure this was the same time because I remember leaving the theater in this little sport coat.

Cause I think it was a nice-ish restaurant and just like flying through the parking lot going whoosh, whoosh, like Superman. Yes. And I always talk about how formative Star Wars was, but I used to play Superman all the time. I had a Superman cape. I had. Yep. I was pretty obsessed. I would watch the old George Reeves. Tell us, tell us show.

Television show? Hey, the language is fluid. You just came up with a new word, the teleshow. And I mean, I would watch that in hopes that it would give me some glimmer of what the movie gave me. It never did, but still it was like... it was like methadone to my heroin or something. Cracked magazine to your mad. Yeah, basically. And I mean, I just, those days when I would stay home from school and I would just pile up the couch cushions and.

knock them over and just be Superman. And man, I loved this movie. Yeah. I mean, I can imagine for you as a kid. You're wearing a vest that feels good. You feel cool in it, right? The sport coat? The sport coat, yeah. No, I probably rebelled. Oh, okay. Because I was going to say, I have memories as a kid where if you were...

wore an outfit that you felt good in and then saw a cool movie, you're like, well, life is just like perfect. Yeah. I do know that feeling. Yeah. I, when I saw vice versa, uh, it was around like my seventh birthday. You know that Judge Reinhold movie, Fred Savage, the swap bodies? Did we do a potty swap season? That sounds like the guy who's the reverse who the poop goes up his butt. A potty swap. Usually we're not so... blue. We don't work blue. Fuckers.

It's funny, though, how I've noticed this in body swap movies. They always find a way to make sure that the other parent isn't around so they don't have to get into any like icky, weird incest questions. That's a good point. Fred Savage doesn't, and Judd Reinhold's body isn't required to like. Bed his own mother. I mean, it worked for Back to the Future. Yeah, why didn't they? And we got Freakier Friday coming out pretty soon, too. Maybe. Maybe it'll happen. Fingers crossed.

Oh, no. But I saw Vice Versa on my seventh birthday. It was springtime. And I went and rode my bike after the great winter thaw, which always feels so good. You can finally ride your bike down the sidewalk because there's not ice or slush. And vice versa is such a like big or anything. It really is just trying to be like, if you're a grownup being like, just.

Try to be more like a kid. Being a kid is cool. Or if you're a kid, it's like value the fact that you're a kid. Those are good times. Like I'm riding on my bike being like. It does rule to be a kid. It was like the best movie in the world. So I was just projecting into you the feeling of going and seeing Superman. Didn't eat at the Fiddlers. The Three Fiddlers? What's it called? The Fiddlers Three.

Fiddler's three. Yeah. What kind of food was it? I don't know. All I know is after it was either this time or another time, my sister hated going there because we went there once and I got sick and threw up. And my sister has this like.

absolute aversion not that everybody doesn't but it's a special aversion to people throwing up and so that place was tainted forever that's funny it your taste aversion but it's her like experience aversion or something like you should be the person who's like oh no more fiddlers are you kidding give me i'd love to go back there to this day and that the quad no the quad was in

near Uptown Whittier and West Whittier, Fashion Square, where we went, was this like, it was just like clothes on four sides with an open roof, but with kind of like... lush green planters and it was after the hopefully no lead planters no no because i was checking out people's underwear let me tell you The Whitwood Mall came along, which is the mall I lived a block from.

That was my mall. And when that one came, both the quad and the fashion square kind of fell into disrepair. It didn't last that much longer. But at the quad... they had the house of humor next across the street, which was basically like the magic store that Pee Wee Herman goes to. It was a full strip mall, full store of just- magic tricks and novelties. Souvenirs, novelties. My good friend, Gourley. It was amazing. If I could only go back there. I know. I mean...

For me, I same. Loved Superman. Had Superman. underwear you know like red with the yellow like underoos or well it's funny I recently had a memory of um When I was a kid, you remember underoos. The design was on the back.

Right? Well, this is the thing with Andrews that bothered me. There were two kinds. There were the ones that were full on... costumes so they just looked they just had the underwear and the shirt that looked like the costume yes and then there were ones that had like a graphic picture on the t-shirt which is like

I am here to dress up like a character in my underwear. Oh, I mean, I had the Halloween costume that was Superman with the like Superman mask, which is like the plastic Ben Cooper. Yeah. And then the vinyl. And the hair that's so black, it's like blue. Yes, yes, it was. Yeah. And then, but like then, you know, Superman likes to wear a plastic smock of Superman flying over the city. Well, that's what his blanket from Krypton.

Krypton. Krypton was made of. Krypton. Why? That alone. Oh my God. You couldn't tell Brando how to pronounce Krypton. Yeah. Because you know if he would have said it, it would be Superman. laughter I will name you Superman from Krypton. Superman. Superman from Krypton. and uh what was that movie with Johnny Depp where he's like Don Juan yes Don Juan DeMarco

Can we talk about Brando for a second? Yes. Is this the last legitimate Brando performance? Because there are other self-referential ones. You know, the freshman he's pretty good in, but... You feel like... I think Last Tango is the last. Is that before or after this? Before this. And that seems like to be the last time Brando is into...

soul bearing mode of like acting is about digging into the depths of your soul and presenting how you experience the world to like the audience. I agree with that. I'm just saying. I know he took just a mountain of money for this. And he had- cue cards planted everywhere, even on Superman's diaper. Dude, I can see his eyes. I love Rando in this movie. Okay, you can, so then you're right. Because I was saying, I do think he's doing a really good job. Yes. He seems to be...

Taking it seriously in some capacity? Yes. Where your island of Dr. Morose and the... What's the one where they do the digital smile that I love so much? The score. Is that the score? Yes. Because he wouldn't smile on camera, so they had to do a little. He hated Frank Oz, and so he refused to smile, which is the last shot of the movie. So they had to digitally make Marlon Brando smile. You know, I was thinking about the score, tab open, about the score.

Love Edward Norton. I was the biggest Edward Norton fan when the movie came out. So in my mind, of course, the lineage is Brando, De Niro. Edward Norton. Yeah. But now I look back on it, baby, that should have been Sean Penn. He's the true like holder of the like. method actor. Yeah. And he had been in a couple, uh, De Niro and he'd worked with Pacino and stuff. It's like, that's more of the lineage. I think you're right. And with, with retro, in retrospect, in hindsight, man. Yeah. Um, but so.

The underoos I had were the... The bottoms were red. The proper bottoms. Yes. But I also had the underoos that were the graphics on the back. Do you remember those? On the butt? Yes. No. That was more of like, I think, an 80s. Late stage underers. Late stage capitalism underers. Late stage capitalism underers. Oh my God, the fall of the Roman Empire. But a really, a funny memory at our house, Matt, is the time.

My mom, I finished going to the bathroom and then maybe I was having a hard time with like my zipper, my button. So my mom was helping me and she was like, uh, sweet pea. P-Wad. Yeah, did you know my family's name, little pet name for me when I was a kid was P-Wad? No. Isn't that funny? Is that true? Wad of Piss is their name for me. Oh, P-Wad and Sweet Pea like Popeye's kid. Yeah.

pee wad probably was said more than sweet pee. Wow. No hate. I like pee wad. It's affectionate. But my mom saw that the underoos were on backwards. Oh. And she was like, why are you wearing your underwears backwards? I was like, because I got to see the picture, ma. Oh my God. Yeah. But also like now.

40 years later or whatever. I'm like, I was right. You were right. What's the point of a graphic you can't see on your butt? You're right to be able to see it in the front and humans should pee out their butts. I mean. So keep the underwear how it is. I mean, probably at the time when I was wearing underoos backwards, I probably thought girls did pee out their butts because they sat down. They don't? They don't pee out their butts?

I think they do, actually. I'll take that back. They definitely do. But, you know, and liked playing Superman and pretending to be Superman. Of all the other... mythic pop culture figures that I loved as a kid or the movies I loved. I can remember the time I first saw Indiana Jones and then Tumble of Doom. And I can remember the first time I saw Back to the Future or Batman or the 60s Batman. All that stuff I can be like, I remember I was... I watched it on screen.

Superman is so mythic, Matt. I have no, it really, I was like born into is always there. Superman. And, uh, I had, um, superman the motion picture poster in my bedroom really the you will believe a man can fly where it's like the rainbow seal with the rainbow beam going through it in front of like a cloud, cloudy sky and stuff. But...

Yeah, I was obsessed with Superman. It was like Garfield. It was like always there. There was never a time where I wasn't aware of... I remember both pre-Superman and pre-Garfield. You remember the pre-Garfield time? I do. Do you remember Lyman? Is that? John Arbuckle's mustachioed friend. That's right. I do now. His Ned Flanders. Did you then, you saw it in the theater.

How did you keep up with the soups? Well, like Star Wars was probably re-released almost every year. And then I've mentioned this before, we had early cable TV for a while called Select TV and it would have been on there. And I do remember watching it at home. And that's, these are all the movies of these eras always come coupled for me with commentary from my mom, like odd little bits about things. And I just remember her remarking on Margot Kidder having like smoking wrinkles.

Or like, gosh, when the trains come and I sure hope he ducks his head. These things are just emblazoned into the movie. Is that so funny that your experience of a movie can be like 50% like what your family was saying about it at the time? The big... dialogue at our house about the Superman movies was that Superman 2 is better than Superman 1. That was always like a thing that was always said in our house. And as a kid...

I think that's true. I always enjoyed Superman 2 more. Critics too at the time when the movie came out in 81 or whatever, 80, they're all like... oh, this is a better movie. And I think it's also like... But it's not a better movie, right? We'll see, but... I don't think... I think it's my favorite of the two, but... I think critics also had a... because of Richard Lester's previous...

with like the Three Musketeers movies and the Hard Day's Night and stuff. He was a bit of a darling. Yeah. And Donner was like upstart. Blockbuster, like worked in TV, came up through TV. And so I think. the critical appraisal of each of those filmmakers kind of. colored how they saw the movies too so it was like

Well, this is a real movie. Richard Lester directing Superman 2. half of that movie is we'll get into it later but like half of that good portions of that are directed by Richard Donner that are still in there and you can tell Yes. You really can. And then in Superman three is when you're like, Oh, this is full Richard Lester. And I mean, I love it. I'm so curious to see that too. And I've been talking to Mike.

good friend Jay Cheel and I've heard him mention this before too that how much the influence of Jacques Tati's playtime is on Superman 3 and I think even a little on Superman 2 but That is a movie that has long been on my list to watch. And so I'm planning to watch it before I watch Superman. Oh, yeah. Playtime's the best, dude. I've never seen it. Oh, my God.

I'm not the biggest Truffaut person. I don't quote Francois Truffaut, but he has a great quote about Playtime where he was like, it seems like it was a movie made on a different planet because it doesn't. obey it would be like if an alien came and just learn like the tools of a camera and stuff and that you put actors in front of a camera and then just did something without seeing any other movies that are like supposed to be like

One main character or stories. It's awesome. I can't wait. The fact that it's all that plus the era. I mean, that opening of Superman 3 with all the slapstick. In particular. Yeah. That's definitely very Jacques Tati-ish. More than anything in those first three Superman movies is the thing that like most captured my imagination was like the Rube Goldberg, like slapstick stuff, which now is like, so.

superman movie fans like that's so malign that opening they're like what the hell is this like slapstick uh for me it was the it's the superman 2 showdown of the three alien Kryptonian villains in this fortress of solitude, because I just love any final thing where there are pits to fall into. So I would just play that over and over and over. And that big Marlboro truck.

Oh, yeah. The big Kentucky Fried Chicken ass and stuff. And the other thing... that was baked into my mind about seeing this was seeing it on tv and the added footage they would put in for the tv too of the like machine guns and lex luther's lair which i always found like a Mandela effect kind of thing of, was I remembering that in the wrong movie? Because the TV version of aliens has that automated machine gun sequence as well. And they're both for the TV version.

That's funny though. Theatrical release is like... We'll save the automated guns for the CBS screening. Yeah, we got to have some. Oh, by the way, new listeners, you can get our whole Alien series. That's right. for free. Well, if you subscribe for the Patreon, I mean, it's all there under the paywall. Besides that, there's Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Halloween. Yeah. aliens and chucky's and final destination oh my god all those kooky movies yeah

Well, let's get into the knit and the grit. Oh, and I just want to mention, Matt, my dear friend Matt, got me this hardcover for my birthday. Got me a Brian De Palma novel, Are Snakes Necessary? And what a nice gift. Well, happy birthday. We should mention it's your birthday. It was your birthday very recently.

And Matt also very sweetly on Patreon said, hey, everybody, wish Paulie a happy birthday. That was such a nice thoughtful gesture. I want to mention that you've been making these art collages too. If people go to your Instagram or maybe you have a URL. They should check these out because a lot of them have little nods to classic film and stuff like that. Yes, yes, yes. On Etsy, I sell some collages that I make with the... My hands, I guess. What they make with child laborers.

It's actually way more time intensive trying to teach children how to cut things and position them well, but I made my bed and I pay them a lot. Like, it's good wages. It's like $30 an hour I'm paying these kids. I don't know what I'm doing. But yeah, let's... Dig into the... I always forget about the comic book intro to this movie. Me too. This movie reminds me a lot of Star Wars in that it has this little intro that's not...

that's kind of serially. Should we describe it for people? It's like the curtain. Yeah, the curtain opens, which, you know, in the movie theater would have been significant because I would have seen this. In a theater, like if it wasn't at the Fashion Square, it would have been at the Whitwood Cinema, which had curtains that would open before a movie. Oh, so you'd get double curtains. I guess so. It's double curtains for you, see? And then it's got that like 4-3 box.

That's like old movie. I mean, it's, I love this like opening. When those first titles come out and then you go to widescreen with the music and the sound effect. It's amazing. And the look of the title. It's really like just a great little magic trick of like getting people's eyes to accept something smaller.

You just see these curtains open, this little square thing. And then when the words come out, I mean, the credits come out and they go beyond the small screen into the giant screen. It's like... Not poor man, because it's like the most expensive special effect in the world to like see all this stuff, but it's like 3D. Yeah, it's the same effect as when you'll hear like an indie song and they do lo-fi vocals.

for the first verse and then everything goes high five. Yes. That never gets old to me. No, I love it. I love that. And I... That's why I can't wrap my head around Alexander Salkine because so much of this movie is inventive. Not just the special effects, but the visual style and everything. And then just to squander it all, it's maybe one of the most.

I don't know, by the time you get to four, it's as far as I've seen a franchise go, maybe. Yeah, you make a really good point, which is like in most franchises- That started so strong, sorry. As the movies go, the budget gets higher and the spectacle like- As much as we like horror movies, we talk about franchise tropes and how franchise unfold and stuff. And this is like... a real ds this franchise is like a de-escalation in budget and effects and like

Wit and romance. You could make a real case that some of the Halloween and Friday movies fall to a dark depth, but they don't start at the same ceiling that Superman starts at. And even when you look at... Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny, the money's still on the screen, regardless of whether you think it's successful or not. By the time you get to the quest for peace...

There's pit stains on his uniform, if I remember correctly. And he's not working out as much. And it's a canon film thing. This used to be released by Warner Brothers. Oh, we got to talk about the Logo Loco. Yeah, yeah. That beautiful Saul Bass, wormy Warner Brothers. I love that they didn't wallpaper over the, you know, like they do with, I mean, The Shining, you can't.

It's hard to see the original Saul Bass red logo Warner Brothers opening. Now, you know, they... they put up the word our brother's shield over it yeah but um And this one doesn't have the like isolated black dots surrounded by the red. It's just the white. That's true. Yes. Yeah. It looks really cool. Yeah. See up there? Yeah, there it is. The Mac Corley logo. I just turned it upside down. But. Also, yeah, like to your point about like how inventive like this opening is, it's like really.

just ingenious. I mean, with the effect of like making the things seem small and then go to big is like cool. But also to like... I love it and it's kind of like oddball-ness that it's like it opens with trying to replicate like the serials that Superman started. And it is funny now with like, it's arguable, but I would say like whatever the modern superhero movie.

It started with the Richard Donner Superman in 1978. And after that, people kind of used like, oh, this is how they did it. And this is how. You get an established actor to give it legitimacy, like Marlon Brando or Jack Nicholson or whatever, Russell Crowe in the Man of Steel movie. But then...

You pick an unknown to play Superman. You populate it with either veteran actors who give it legitimacy or up-and-coming actors who are cool so it doesn't seem like a lame thing that they're making a comic book movie. that Superman started as like a black and white cereal. And then the 78 Superman comes, but then all these Marvel movies, you know, pull from what Richard Donner did in the late seventies, but that it kind of like went back around to like serial.

I mean, like to go to these Marvel movies is like the experience of a kid going and going to cliffhanger cereal. So it's so weird that the movie starts with like... Hey, we're going back to throwback times of the Superman serials, but it's filming a comic book. It's like filming the original Superman comics. So it's like, okay. So they're like acknowledging on two levels. This used to be a serial.

This was a comic book. And then starting it there with the kid's hand coming in and stuff. Yeah. And a kid's voice. Yes. Narrating it. But then they also go like. The 1930s, Metropolis was the center. It was.

facing things like all all over the country it was the great depression or whatever and then they're like and then while that was happening in space krypton shit was happening like We don't have to go full like Friday the 13th Kakamemi timeline here, but it is like the timeline is crazy because at the beginning they're like...

1930s metropolis. Meanwhile, on Krypton, and then when he lands, it looks like he lands in Great Depression era Smallville. I think it's 50s because the kids in high school have these like... more 50s cars. They're older cars, but they're... But if he had landed in, let's say, 1939...

Don't they talk about, Gene Hackman's talking about this in 48. Yes. He says Krypton exploded in 1948. So whatever. And he traveled for three years. I'm not picking nits or whatever, but it is like the difference between. The movie at the beginning says this is happening. Krypton explodes during the Great Depression. And then later, Gene Hackman says 1948. So, like, there's a gap of, like... Yeah, it's...

I couldn't quite wrap my head around that other than to say that the titles coming out of the screen are kind of like we're in a new era here, basically. That's cool. I like that. Just like we're wiping all that away. We're changing the aspect ratio. We're going into color. We've got a different music. It's not your granddaddy Superman. Yeah, that's true. Because he could have landed though, you know. Let's say 1939.

He's one. Yeah. And then three, when he lands, they say, Oh, he's three. Okay. So then let's jump. Let's say 14 years later. So it's the, when he's a high schooler. Yeah. That's like, So I think they said in the depression it was 38, I think. I thought they said so. He'd get here in 41. 15 years later, it'd be 56 when he's 18. Yeah, and the cars that they're driving do look like... mid-50s and the kind of like fashions.

But then it does like a weird, it jumps over the 60s when he gets to Metropolis. Like there's a whole, the timeline. Does he stay in the Fortress of Solitude? I guess they make it kind of sound like a university. It's like he goes there for a few years. I would think that'd be really weird. You're just hanging out with your dad in one place while he teaches you lessons. It's called the Fortress of Solitude. So maybe...

It's more like your fortress of solitude is like when you're a teenager in your bedroom and the dad is just like poking in his head. He's not like sitting. You hope he's not sleeping in your bed at night. Dad, when there's a Kryptonian sock on the door. When there's a cape on the door. Yeah, so there's a cape on Superman's roommate. Superman's got a cape on the doorknob. It's either Lois or Lana. But then, yeah, then the movie when they're in Metropolis, like that's full on.

late 70s. And what I love about this and you just don't see this much in movies is the fashions are 70s but the cinematography and the look is classic cinema. It's not 70s grit. There's no grain. It's all gauzy and diffused. The music, the color is saturated. You just don't see that much in the 70s. Maybe with like Xanadu or what else am I thinking of that was kind of like that? Maybe...

The Wiz, I don't know. Maybe Bond movies, right? Yeah. That they can have that like- Yeah, a little bit. But even those- International gloss. No, even those are grittier. When I'm thinking of The Man with the Golden Gun, they're just a little sweatier and slimier and you can see the makeup and the sweat. Yeah.

There's a couple of scenes when they, when they first land a metropolis that I do like that. It feels like a seven. It's like the French connection or something like, but still shot so much differently. I mean, the, whatever that. tonal mishmash that like only grows better the further we get from 1978 which is like The movie thinks it's calling out the...

Cornball-ness of the 50s Superman, you know, with her like, when he says like, truth, justice, the American way. And she's like, you're not going to want to meet these Watergate era politicians we got here, Superman. It has that sort of cynicism, but it's so... I mean, it's so charming, this movie, that it has French Connection car chases with guys wearing ski masks.

Like, okay, you wouldn't have seen this. And a cat burglar. But yes, that's exactly my point. Then when he gets the cat burglar, he reaches in to see what he's doing. It's not like. This guy's like dealing heroin. It's just like jewels. It's jewelry. So it's like, well, you're not exactly like this cool 70s revamp. That's what I love about it. There's no like bearer bonds or cocaine or heroin, like you said.

And my favorite part, hands down as a kid of this movie, is the run of episodic little crimes that he busts because it's just... true lift action and yes this movie's a little slow to get started it's like star wars when you watch star wars it's slower than you probably remember this movie's slower than you probably remember that's why i think superman 2 is

In some ways, more fun to watch because it's more action and stuff. But I just love when he gets into the little episodic moments. Oh, yes. I mean, my favorite. thing about the Superman movie in it. Surprised I didn't say it from the moment you hit record, Matt, which is. It's five different movies all put together. And I timed it. And it's basically at every major real change, every 23 minutes. Let me see if I can guess. So you got Krypton. Yes. Which is like.

Star Wars, Logan's run type movie. Like it's entirely, it's a space. opera. Really, an opera where it's like... And the fucking production design is incredible. And the style. I love, love the Krypton series. The best, the best, the best. Yes. And that it's like... It did come out a year and a half after Star Wars. And I imagine when you're a kid and you're sitting and you see a movie start with like space, you're like, Hey, we're back in, we're in a post Star Wars world where the, we're not.

This is the new Vanguard. But the effects are straight up like right before Star Wars. I mean, it's like UK. It's like Logan's run. Yeah. But so good still. So good. Oh, I love it. And I love that it's like kind of the... Last time before ILM decided what visual effects will look like, even like the.

offshoots like the people who did uh what is it called EEG or the people who did like Ghostbusters and stuff the people who branched off was that Dykstra no yeah yeah when he branched off from ILM It's still kind of using the mode of what George Lucas had created, but this is like... 2001, Logan's Run. I mean, like when... Krypton is exploding and all those people are falling down and stuff. That's like in Logan's Run, you know, that little like crazy thing.

throw the bodies in of the people who are over 30. That alone. So they're being shot in slow motion and superimposed. So part of their body's missing because they're only catching the light. Yes. Oh, I love it. Okay, so that's the first section. So Krypton, then Young Clark Kent in Kansas. Which is exactly another little 23-minute section. And that is like... 1950s, epic, big studio cinemarama.

giant. Or East of Eden. And the composition of the shots and juxtaposing these two people against a big wheat field. Oh, the most classic type of filmmaking. I mean... Dude, when you see that, the Kent's like a red truck against like a blue and white sky. They're all like...

Edward Hopper paintings or something like that. Is that what I'm thinking of? Yeah. So this groovy movie that like starts off by going like, Hey, this is a Superman movie. You know, Superman from the comic books and the old serials like that already is like. Kind of a wild way to start a movie. And then to do this really wild thing of like, okay, the first chapter is going to be a space opera. And the second chapter is going to be, it's almost like.

like a Western, the power and the strength of like those images of like the Midwest and fields and landscape. Like a John Huston. Yes, yes, yes. And then part, and the acting is sort of like, who's the guy? Oh. with the Strasburg. Um, no, the, uh, he did on the waterfront. Why am I playing? Elliot Kazan. Yeah. Like just Elliot Kazan, like acting like New York actor, you know, uh, uh,

And then the third chapter. And that's like, yes. Clark Kent and Metropolis meeting our main characters. Uh-huh. And that's like this cool. The New York 70s movie, like Sidney Lumet or something like it. There's stuff that like... oh, they're using the same corner that maybe Dog Day Afternoon was filmed. But then it like mixes, it's like this cross-genre pollination thing with like... what's up doc like uh who the writers um benson and um

Benton, the ones who wrote Bonnie and Clyde that wrote Superman, they also wrote What's Up Doc. And so this kind of like, whatever that like. throwback screwball. Yeah, the antic, little episodic. moments and in the stuff of the daily planet it feels like this combination of like all the president's been with like his girl Friday they're just like putting all like the best parts of movies all together it's true

I wonder how much manquets have to do with that. Just being a big movie lover and coming from a tradition. Right. And then the... segment is entirely a love chapter. It's about like, it's crazy. You can even like just see the. uh, like, It starts off with the first clear, like... Oh, there's something going on between Luthor and Tessmacher. And Otis even kind of seems like he's part of a thruple or something. And then it goes into the Daily Planet scene.

And where Perry White's talking and he has this like little flirtation with his assistants. You're like, oh, this is the love chapter. You're even seeing Perry White's little office romance. That happens right next to her getting a note that's like, would you like to meet me? Like a love note. And then Perry White comes by her and is like, does Superman have a girlfriend? And she like smiles. And then that goes into the whole.

I mean, that's just like the romance section then because then they go up and fly in the air. Yeah. Then the last part is like... James Bond movie, because it's like you go into... They get James Bond to come into the secret bad guy's headquarters. The most amazing layer, yeah. The Ken Adam kind of style layer. But it's like stealing missiles. It's kind of like a Bond villain.

scheme like we're gonna use missiles to like against the world and then i'm gonna use that so i can not become because i'm a bad guy it's just like i want wealth and power you know uh And then it ends with like a 70s disaster movie. So you get like five different like movies.

that somehow kind of go through the whole history of American filmmaking. It's crazy, and it's a long movie. It's two hours and 20-some minutes. It's an epic. And knowing that they were shooting a sequel at the same time, which... was fairly rare. Although I learned this in Brantley's notes, Salkine had shot the three Musketeers and the four Musketeers.

but only paid everybody for one movie. And so screen actors killed, devised something called the Salkind rule, where you can't do that. Don't be a Salkind rule, is what it's called. So he did this as well. And we've talked about this briefly when we started, or maybe it was before we recorded and we were just talking to the streamers about the ending for this. first movie wasn't going to be this. But I'm really curious why they left.

the General Zod stuff in because in the second movie, they still have to go back in time to show that the nuclear bomb that he takes up into the sky, into space, releases them. Yep. So why wouldn't you start the second movie with that? Because we never come back to them in this movie. You'd be kind of scratching your head. It wasn't like everybody knew about sequels back then. Because part one was supposed to end with the...

reverberations of the missile launch is the thing that releases the... If it had been released as it had been conceived, it would have ended with the... I think with... the baddies getting released from their... little flip screen. I'm surprised they didn't still end that way though. Okay. I have a hunch that they just were like, okay, we're moving the end of part two to part one. So we're just going to make that the ending. I think it's that they didn't want to like.

They wanted as much Brando as they could get. And because they had filmed that stuff of him being like. And it is so good. And it is so good. Yeah. And that opening, I mean, just the atmosphere of the like revolving hula hoops and the Epcot style screens on the wall. And all those actors. trevor howard you've got uh What's his name? Anderson? I can't remember. He...

The other ball-headed guy, the one that's kind of sympathetic to him. Right, right. In The Deadly Affair, which is the first George Smiley book. based on A Call for the Dead. He plays the character of Mendel in that and he's so funny in it. Oh, cool. So funny. I mean, like relative to the movie. But yeah, this like Royal Shakespeare Company version of like a space movie that's like the beginning is like, I think they didn't want to have to...

give that up. They're like, we paid Brando so much money for this amount of screen time. We're not going to give it up just because it doesn't work anymore. But what's cool about it is... the effect it has, even though they don't go back to it at the end, like they probably were planning, it just ends up kind of becoming this cool Star Wars style world building. Yeah. Of like post Lucas of like, we're going to just say these words. It captures your imagination and you're like, oh.

what's a, what's a Gundar? Yeah. Or, or what's the Kessel run? Like, it's cool that it just starts with like, yeah, this world is so big and this comic lore, comic book lore is so deep. We're going to just. Start this off with three characters you don't ever... I mean, it's a preposterous way to do a movie because no movie would spend that amount of time now. You wouldn't write it to be like... We established these three bad guys and then...

First 15 minutes of movie time when people are really like going like, okay, how is this going to? Where's the guy in the cape? Well, you're going to have to wait 50 minutes before you see a man fly in a cape. The other thing I like about that little. What is that, like a courtroom kind of thing that's going on? Uh-oh. Oh, hello. Oh, hi, Southern lawyer. Well, I'm not here to help these three very innocent people. Has anyone seen my hula hoops? Oh, thank you. Uh-oh, it looks like I forgot.

Creed, Ursa, Non, and Zod. Oh, no. That was not my intention, but rest assured, I would have done it through legal. Yeah, we know your schemes. I would have gotten them off. Here's my card. I've never let a client down. This car does three little hula hoos. That's right. I am three-fifths of the Olympics. Okay, I got to run. Are you representing Zod?

Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. But I got him off on a technicality in that those were my hula de hoops. But I do have to run. This planet is exploding. Kal-El is correct. You should listen to him. So you're not a... You guys haven't noticed the giant red sun getting a lot closer? You don't think that's going to be an issue? You're not part of one of those red sun denial people. Oh, no, no. But Krypton is flat. Because I know the big corporations have been paying you to... Oh, how dare you, sir?

I like that as a... Oh, I was going to say the part of the world that I like Southern Lawyer is the... Marlon Brando's white on... superman symbol on black yeah look that is so cool oh it's that's that's that's green Like movie screen materials, what they make it out of. Yes, yeah, yeah. Reflective. I like that with him being like, Krypton is going to blow up. Krypton. Red son of Krypton. You don't understand. Like the, you know, the metaphor of being like, this is God.

has Jesus in his image to go down into the world to be part God, but also part human who will. to humanity like that's a pretty obvious yeah he's just saying they just they're a good species basically but they lack the light to guide them yeah so i'm god and i'm sending down my only son to earth to save them is um so there's that metaphor but then there's also the metaphor of the like um The American immigrant experience. I'm leaving.

I'm a refuge from one country and I'm coming. Because Superman famously originally written by Jewish. Schuster and Siegel. Yeah. Exactly. So that's their experience. And then. also the experience of like oh what makes me special uh my background my upbringing I have to kind of keep it secret in order to assimilate like there's that stuff too with the like Kent's. But it's funny that as time goes on, this other kind of... Accidental metaphor of like.

ecology has kind of reared its head now in this beginning. There's a new dimension to the guy being like, hey, the planet is fucked. we got to figure something out to fix this. And everyone's like, no, no, no. We're not going to trust you scientists about this. I just love that their timeline is so escalated. It's like, no, 30 days. And the rest of them are like, oh, it's too far out. Can't see it. Can't imagine. Although, wait, maybe they do say something about...

Isn't when Brando's giving him his first lesson when he comes to the Fortress of Solitude is like, you've been there 18 years, but it'll be thousands of years. since I have gone or something like that? Oh, yeah. I don't know. But I do know that when he finally turns into that icy death mask. Can you imagine having that prop? Whatever that plastic prop is of Brando's face is an icy death mask. That rotates.

Yeah. I would love that. I would love that. Alongside the green crystal would be. Oh, God. There's so many. I want the. The satin red, yellow, blue baby blanket is so good. I mean, for people who are listening to us for the first time here. This podcast is all about the coz. Yeah. We love coziness and horror movies. We find cozy where we can get it. That with the mom. the Superman's mom is like walking through that like hazy.

sci-fi like those sci-fi glowing pillars and kind of like this hazy room that is like so cozy man i just like i know except what is it with future alien worlds that no one has any decor There's not a single ounce of... Maybe that's just a Kryptonian thing. Maybe they're pure minimalists. Maybe they're like...

uh, who's the one Marie Kondo. Yeah. Yeah. They run the Marie Kondo before, uh, earth leads were, uh, but I liked the, um, uh, uh, Yeah, the look of when they're walking through the little area there and then the like... The spaceship that they put him in, in that kind of like Christmas ornament looking like ice. Yeah. Like big snowflake, big crystal snowflake. That looks so dope. And then the...

The production designer, John Barry. I just clearly, any John Barry in the world, I'm going to love what you do. Oh, yes. Music production design. The tinfoil clothes, the reflective clothes that you're talking about. That looks so cool. But yeah, John Barry, right? No, is that what you said? It is. It's not the same John Barry, but... As the musician, but... Yeah. Do you think... One never used the other's name to like get with a chick.

Are you visual or are you oral? Oral. Oral. That's why I'm asking. I don't mean to jump ahead, but the tribunal of... judges the heads that look is amazing and in there you've got the guy from Call for the dead. Lobot's in there from Empire Strikes Back. Lobot's in there? Lobot's in there, yeah. John Hollis, yeah.

Trevor Howard. It's incredible. Oh my God. All the like little Elstree studios. I know. I haven't watched this movie in a long time and it's, it's only since that I've come to know some more of these actors, you know, and appreciate them. I never knew as a kid. gave a damn who Trevor Howard was or Susanna York, or even I was vaguely aware like, Oh, that's the Godfather. That's Brando. And my parents would tell everybody talked about Brando, but.

And it was introducing Christopher Reeve, but to me... It was introducing all these people. So Christopher Reeve was as big a star as any of them. Yes. Yeah. And he's so good in this. I wrote. And it's the ultimate version of the like, you know, Richard Donner did it before with the Omen by having. Good golly. Why am I blanking on his name? Gregory Peck. Gregory Peck. Yeah. Like, this isn't some devil kid movie.

You got Gregory Peck, Hollywood royalty. This isn't some exploitation direct. Like if Superman is like at this time, the biggest. studio version of a grade B concept in a way, you know what I mean? Like it could be a grade B movie, but like now Hollywood is making their own version of these like genre movies. Like the one-to-one of, well, we're Warner Brothers doing Superman. So if we're going to get the actor to like be the like.

I mean, it's the same thing like when we watch like Terror Trade and they have like an established actor just to be like, don't worry. Yeah, this is a legit movie. It's not just like having the actor of it like. it would either be like Marlon Brando or like Lawrence Olivier. I know. Two choices to like play Superman's dad. Yeah. But the, when the tribunal shoots them out. In the little square. The Phantom Zone. Yeah. We had a... record of, I think, Human League's song like...

Yeah. I'm feeling fascination. Yeah. The cover was like on them, like all jammed into the square. Yeah. When I was a kid, I was like. I think they're going to the Phantom Zone. They might as well be. I just love that. And every time I see Sarah Douglas from... five years old to 51 I'm just like oh Ursa she was so hot to me I know and we had a family up the street from me that lived around the corner in my neighborhood

And they had like five sons and they all looked like non. Like, Oh, that's that non family. This is what I love. Superman too. When you, when they first land in the, like. Clearly the Lake Arrowhead or wherever they shot that. Yes. And he's learning to use his little laser eyes. Yes. And it's funny that like. They're super... I mean, Ursula... What's her name, right? Ursa. Ursa has the same... super strength as Superman, as Superman. So why does non need to be like big?

It's like, well, I guess it's relative because I actually looked this up. I, it occurred to me to, I never had thought like, why is, why does something from Superman's home planet hurt him? kryptonite which is the meteor of the planet krypton and i finally looked it up and understood it it's because

Like Brando explains, they have a more dense cellular structure and everything. When he gets to Earth, it's going to favor him more because he's such a stronger composition due to their two different environments. And the earth has a yellow sun because it's like a more favorable environment makes him super strong. kryptonite comes, it emits a radiation of the red sun, which brings him back to just being a normal person, krypton-wise. So it's putting him back in the krypton...

which makes him a normal person. So yeah, I guess- non would be stronger than ursa on krypton because he's a big man he's a bigger guy so it's just all relative yeah that's funny it's pretty fascinating yeah i mean the um It's interesting though, because when Superman's dad, that's his name, makes Superman, he's also kind of going like, you're going to be the ultimate version of our species though, too. He's like, I'm going to give you all this.

But I guess it's more just like, you'll be powerful in relation to a human being, some puny human. Yeah. And I think to give him every advantage to survive. He's going to be... still probably excel more than maybe the average. Krypton teenager. I think so, yeah, because he's also the son of a great... Nepo baby. Like scientist slash...

District attorney? Crypto baby. Yeah. Yeah. He's the son of a high profile attorney. And it's interesting that he doesn't send him to earth to help earth. He sends him there because that will be the best place for him to thrive and survive. Yes. To save his son. And I mean, it's maybe my favorite notion in all Superman lore.

it can bring a i'll put a lump in my throat just thinking about it matt the beautiful notion that just the um humanistic notion that Superman wouldn't be a good person if he didn't happen to crash land next to the Ken. good people. And if he had landed in like... the backyard of some piece of shit. Yeah. That guy, that piece of shit, like a bad dad who like.

pushes his kid to play sports and compete. Or the mother of the kid that loses the cat in the tree that just slaps her. Slaps her. Yeah. Like a Superman happened to land in the backyard of like a stage mom. Uh-oh, look out. like some two people who want like their own reality show, like humanity, the world would be screwed. Then you just have this like selfish asshole, like bopping around. Super actor. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. But with this, I love that. Like, I mean, also coming from.

iowa i love that it's like hey midwest values baby that's like really what makes superman who he is like he could have just been a jerk but also kind of brings into some weird like nature nurture things it's like oh are people crypto like assholes like or are they nicer is what makes them super, their own, I guess, the dad. The dad seems more like just a good intellectual father, not necessarily like a mensch. Well, yeah, they do strike me as sort of more like Vulcans, even the mom.

Oh, I have to say goodbye to my son and she's serious. And then she just leans her head on Kal-El's chest, but it's not like she's having the worst time of her life. Dad, hop in the car. Like, what are you doing? You don't have to orphan me here. Like, couldn't they? Well, no, because he made the promise. He said, very strategically, he said to Trevor Howard, neither my wife or me will leave Krypton.

But he strategically did not mention his son. But why does he have to like? Because he's got Kryptonian honor, man. I don't know. I got to pee. We'll be right back. okay we're back we were talking to the streamers about um a superego sketch we did long ago where even none of us superego boys were in it, but it was Patton Oswalt and Chris Tallman doing Kal-El representing General Zod. But in his...

Prison chambers, they're having like discussions about the legal aspects of it. I'll put it on at the end of this episode. Oh, please do. Yeah, that's awesome. And we can talk about the little Smallville section now. Yeah. I was just going to say... because it gets such a great presentation in the beginning of the movie. I just really want to quickly talk about the John Williams score. Oh, God. Yeah. That Krypton theme, the Lois and... Clark theme or Lois and Superman theme.

And then the main title. Yeah. And then the main title even does that kind of like Indiana Jones thing where it could be either or. Like there's the... but then it goes into another like it's the same as and there's also then

You know what I'm talking about? The story of Spielberg is like... He liked both. He liked both. He was like, can you just do both? But with Superman, just that opening kind of overture... above that amazing like space photography like the stuff is so cool but like it's like uh hummable themes in this movie that any composer, film composer, would give their left hand just to have written one of those. It's insane in six years that...

Williams does Jaws, Star Wars, Superman, and Indiana Jones. And maybe there's another, well, he does Close Encounters as well. Close Encounters, yeah. But that's more known for that little... But these themes are...

Unbelievable. And I would even not take Jaws out of there. Jaws is more of like a... a motif and it's more of like the shark itself but these epic operatic yeah the indie the superman and the star wars orchestral just full yeah yeah incredible yeah and it's like really incredible how much you almost like take it for granted Like you're just like, oh, John Williams does this. But then when you compare it to other composers where it's just like a very short list of...

It's like when you walk out of the movie theater, you're like, you know, you can do it in your head. Makes you realize just like what a singular talent like John Williams is that really no other composer. It's hard for them to come up with one hummable theme, let alone five in one movie. I don't think there's any... composer that can even come close. And also just the way that the style of film scoring has gone towards that Hans Zimmer, like no melody, just this percussive.

I do not like at all. I really miss the lyric melodies of John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith. John Barry was so good at it too. Herman. Bernard Herman. Yeah. John Barry, every bond. theme is hummable and whistleable and even his non-bond themes like the black hole and out of Africa dances with wolves. us Christopher Reeves somewhere in time yeah beautiful score and it even does the James Bond style the little like

After the main theme is done and the credits are over, it kind of just does a little soft to get into the bed of the movie. Did you know that... You know, A Hard Day's Night ends with that little kind of like, I don't know if it's an ampeggio, like the... It's been a hard day and I've been working like a dog. And then at the very end it goes... It kind of just plays this little lick. I'm trying to remember. But that...

the Beatles have said, they did that at the end because it was the opening theme and they were doing their own version of the Bond thing. Oh my God. Where when the theme ends, you still hear a little... It can't be a conventional pop song where the song just ends. they have to have a little bit of more extra music so it fades into the opening scene. That came from their love of James Bond themes. Which is crazy because in 64 in Goldfinger, the character Bond says...

you know, about drinking Dom Perignon above or below a certain degree. He goes, it's like listening to the Beatles without earmuffs. It isn't done. I know he disses the Beatle. Come on, dude. I know. Yeah. What if he was just like a big Herman's Hermits fan? I know. It wasn't that he was a Stones fan. He's like Lawrence Welk or something. But yeah. Big praise to John Williams. I mean, he does like

I mean, if this score had been puny, this movie would be, I think, like a full letter grade down. Yeah. Before we get to the Smallville stuff, just a couple more things about Krypton. When Terrence Stamp is yelling at him after he's just walking away and he goes, you know, like, I will have revenge or whatever. on your airs, but it sounds like he says, your ass. I thought that too. I was like, I wouldn't do this video. It sounds like your ass. Yeah. They mentioned 28 known galaxies.

That's crazy. Krypton is that advanced, Krypton, and they only know of 28 galaxies. That's crazy. And yet they don't have decor. I know. Hey, come up with a potted plant while you guys are up there. Seriously, just a plant. Yeah, a plant. What are you guys eating? Each other? Snow? Crystal? All right. And then we're to Smallville. We got the Lois Lane cameo on the train. That's the Lois Lane from the TV show, Superman. Yeah. And in a deleted scene.

Have you seen that deleted scene? Oh, yeah. Where the little girl, she goes, mommy, mommy, look. And she's like, oh, Lois Lane, you little dreamer. There's nothing out there. So it would have been like... Right. The lowest lane of the Superman TV show. It's good they cut that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think because then it would also have like some like.

freudian thing is like is that why later lois lane is attracted because she had this like crazy experience as a guy as a kid see like a man run outside the train she's like I've wanted that my whole life. I've been waiting to meet you. A little Silence of the Lambs moment. Yes. My dad loved the Superman, the George Reeves thing. Oh, really? And he would tell me a story about like... I'm sure this for his generation, like a classic thing that happened, but that people would, the episode where.

clark tells lois that they're superman and they decide to get married and he was like oh my god happening and then the episode ended with like Lois waking up from a dream about it and he felt like so ripped off I remember when George Reeve was on I Love Lucy as Superman there's an episode where she goes out on the

on the ledge of the building to surprise the kid's birthday party, and she gets stuck out there. And what, does he fly in? George Reeves flies in. Yeah, George Reeve flies in. Here are the things. It's Christopher Reeve, George Reeves. Christopher Reeve. Yeah. Yes. George Reeves. So it's Christopher Reeve, Sally Field. People often say Christopher Reeves and Sally Fields. Yes. And it's Barnes and Noble. Not Barnes and Nobles. And Nordstrom. And Nordstrom. And Musso and Frank.

Not Musso in France. I didn't know that. Yeah. And Keanu Reeves? Yes. There's Keanu Reeves. Yeah, the... When the meteor lands. Also, I love like when he's in the little like spaceship and listening. Do you remember like in the 80s, there was like a really big thing of like, dude, you don't have to study. You listen to a tape while you're asleep of the note.

and you don't even have to study it just through like osmosis you'll learn that's like the ultimate version of like a book on tape that you listen to to like cramp for a test it's like marla brando's like soothing voice being like the isosceles triangle that reminds me we were going to do a super ghost catch i don't know if we ever tried it of those lessons where you're just listening to marlon brando's Kryptonian education where it would have gone. That's so funny if he's got a...

like a stake in making Marlon Brando sound cool. Like there's like a full five hours about like And an actor named Marlon Brando came and changed acting as we know it. They're like, what? Dad, what was up with all that Marlon Brando shit? Some of the stuff in his later years will be grossly misunderstood for a good 10 generations.

But then the island of Dr. Moreau will be revisited as the genius work of art that it is. I've got your horse right here. His name is Paul Revere. I sound like Bronson. I've got your horse right here. His name is Paul Revere. The guy that says if the weather's clear, can do. Can do. Jackmaster 5000. This is for jacking off.

Okay, I wish I hadn't just said jacking off with this next thing I'm going to bring up. But what do you think of that little kid's penis? Well, I remember as a kid. Me too. Going like, what? What is this? But there was also. I have Superman trading cards and there's a still of him with the blanket on. Oh. Like they took photo stills with a blanket, a little red blanket.

that he's wearing when he's lifts the car or something, you know, I might be conflating those. Nevermind. No, but maybe they, they were like, Hey, we can't be putting trading cards out of this. Like, yeah. When I was a kid, it was like shocking. And it's very like. 70s, 60s flower child thing, like the naked baby is the future of the, you know, whose penis? child, baby penis, do you think the world has seen more?

The Clark Kent kid's penis or the Nevermind babies? I think Nevermind. Nevermind? Yeah, because that's in stores. You don't have to watch a movie to see it. Right. How much more people's hard-earned money has gone to pay for the baby, for the boy penis? Which penis is earned the most? Yes, yes.

Probably the Superman kid. And you can only put the success of each of those things at the feet of the kid's penis. Like it has nothing to do with the songs. It has nothing to do with the special. Imagine having your penis peak that early in life. Also, I like that they don't make the kid like cherubic. He's not like, he looks like Damien. It's like Richard Donner just called up like the family that Damien is like, do you got another kid? Because he's like kind of weird looking. He's like.

Warlock-y looking, right? He's not like... I looked him up. He acts... He's in the... I think the Man of Steel as a cameo. Justice Peabody. Justice Peabody. He was in the White Lotus this season as Jason Isaac's prosthetic dong. But there's so much like...

to those opening scenes, especially when you're a kid. I mean, I like that this movie is like less... action movie and just more like fairy tale truly is more like a fantasy movie you don't you forget how much it is just a movie not an action movie yeah and re-watching the Burton Batman movies, which seems to have its foot more in like... the Superman movies and blade or, um, like,

I like how those feel like fairy tales, like the way Tim Burton shoots stuff. It has this kind of like Grimm's fairy tales. Yeah. It's like fantasy more than like. I mean, I love the Christopher Nolan Batman movies, but that like really began this thing of like, no. You have to figure out how a superhero would exist in this world. I'm like, I don't know. This whole stuff is pretty groovy and wild. Just embrace the weirdness. It blew my, oh.

Every Superman movie has scary stuff in it, I feel like. So like when they get pushed out into the forbidden zone and they're like howling, that was scary. And they're immediately going screaming, forgive me, forgive me. terrifying i know uh and then when lois goes into the crack of the San Andreas wall line that was also really scary as a kid but there's also very thrilling parts when you're a kid and there is no fucking greater wish fulfillment for your kid than like, I saved dad's life.

Like that truck is going to follow the dad. And then that reveal of like a baby lifting up a truck. I saw that when I was just a year older than that kid. I'm like, hell yeah, this movie rules. I can do this, but I can't too, man. I don't have his penis, but I would love his upper arm straight. I've got Non's penis in a Superman body. Yeah, Freud's concept of penis envy was actually about me as a kid watching Superman. I'd be like, hey! The...

Didn't they... glenn ford is so good oh i know and i wrote perfectly cast those two the parents well i've always always remembered when he has that heart attack and he fills his arms oh no oh no it just oh i think it might be like the best um on camera, death acting I've seen. I agree. Like that's not like in a battle. It always stuck with me. Oh my God. It is really just like a masterclass in acting that like.

subtle, like realizing it. And then the whore that's on his face. So sad. What's amazing about this movie is they got all these actors. And I think there was a sense of like, these people are taking a huge paycheck for this blockbuster movie. They weren't. doing on the waterfront or anything like that but none of them phoned it in and it's not like phoning it in didn't happen at this point you can watch movies of this era where people are phoning it in

Hackman. Christopher Reeve is so good as Clark Kent, not just Superman. Glenn Ford. All those actors love, I think, Richard Donner. Yeah. He always gets such a good rap from his actors. He seems like a guy. He started as an actor. Yeah. And so he has like a love for actors. Because what does he act in? What is he in? He's in a few... old like um well he directed twilight zones and stuff but maybe he was

He was in like 50s TV, Richard Donner, I believe. But he's in stuff as an older man too. Oh, as an actor? Yeah. I always forget what it is. But yeah, he... So much so that when Richard Lester took over, Margot Kidder and Gene Hackman were like, we're out of here, dudes. You can't fire Richard Donner. He cast us. We love this dude. He's awesome. But like, I feel like whatever. And whatever he does, like the magic, I mean, it's partly Spielberg because he's great with child actors too.

fairy dust that that dude sprinkles on those Goonies performances are like amazing like he really I mean, his big thing with the Superman movies, you see it on the special features, the making of. He had the sign put up with Superman like this. It's like an illustration. And in Superman letters, it says verisimilitude. That's right. Because his whole thing was like...

where can we find the reality of this? I was just listening to, before Gene Heckman passed away, David, I was listening to do a David Venture interview and he was like, I think maybe the best. film performance ever given by an actor is Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor in the first Superman movie because it is like... Somebody who's taking whatever that post-Brando...

new Hollywood naturalistic acting and like putting it in the center of this like blockbuster movie. And without the indulgence that something like that requires. It's a really, I mean, all the performances in this. And then, yeah, discovering Christopher Reeve and knowing to cast that guy who... I mean, you could say arguable, but I think it's inarguable. He's just like the best Superman Clark Kent that ever existed. Choices of Bronson and Heston are ridiculous.

Burt Reynolds, Eastwood, Redford, Newman. None of them could have done this. Yeah, you got to go with an unknown so it doesn't have the baggage. And then also that he's like this Juilliard trained. Yeah. So he's taking it so seriously. Oh yeah. It shows in this. Yeah. I mean that exquisite, other people have pointed out, but that exquisite bit of acting he does. which is already in this amazing effect shot where like superman flies off the

balcony and then the camera pans over and then somehow Christopher Reeve enters as Clark Kent, which would already be an amazing little in-camera trick. Wait, that's all one shot? Yeah. How does he change so? I don't know.

Is it a double flying off? It must be. Maybe. Yeah. I didn't realize that. But he comes in and then he does that awesome thing where he takes the glasses off and just in his posture, that's real. I didn't realize they seeded that in this first one. I know the second one's all about his. When it was happening, I was like, is this going to happen? This feels like a part two kind of thing with him doing that little transition. But it makes sense that they were looking at this as a two movie arc.

He does little cameos and stuff. There's an actor that looks like Richard Donner that I always think is Richard Donner. Who do you think it is? Well, ironically, it's the guy who plays the chief in Lethal Weapon movies, which are directed by Richard Donner, right? Yes, he does. I always think that guy's Richard Donner yes the editor for this it seemed like he had a couple movies like Tommy and stuff before this But it seemed to be like his entree into big...

Hollywood blockbuster is this guy, Stuart Baird. Yeah. B-A-I-R-D. And then he becomes like Richard Donner's editor. Then he becomes like Joel Silver's editor because Richard Donner and Joel Silver. buddies. They co-created Tales from the Crypt and stuff together and they used the same actors, same editors and production team and stuff. But Stuart Baird... And like the mid to late 80s became Warner Brothers. in-house editor for troubled productions. Like he was just like on retainer for like.

If this movie isn't fucking coming together and the previews are bad, we bring in an old Stewie bear to come in and sprinkle his magic on it. So there's a certain stretch of movies where if you see... Stuart Baird. I know that name so well. You're like, oh, this was a troubled movie. Tango and Cash.

Last Boy Scout, Demolition Man. These are all movies that had to be found in editing. I rarely notice editing in movies unless it's something flashy like a Tarantino or something. But I noticed it in this movie because it's so good because I can just tell. that they had really good special effects, but that will only also get you so far and that they're meant to be cut away from and come back to a different effect. The editing is so good in this movie about like...

cutting the reel with the miniature and back and forth and blending the two in it. You can tell he's a master editor. Yeah. The rhythm of it is like, we've talked about it before that like when you're a kid. Editing pre-Spielberg Lucas, the pace of movies just feel like... If you were born into Spielberg-Lucas editing, anything before it already kind of feels a little like Turgut. But this guy, Stuart Baird, was young at the time when he edited Superman. I think he was in his...

not even had turned 30 yet. Wow. So you can tell, oh, Superman, this movie is fueled by a young man's or younger generation's editing style. And it doesn't have this sort of like... pacing or something yeah although what's interesting about some of the Bond stuff is that it is there in the beginning Peter Hunt yeah especially that's true yeah it brought in a

in its own way. But I think that's why I go back to those Bond movies because when I watch other movies of that era, even though I love them for nostalgic reasons and stuff, even something like Great Escape or Guns of Navarone, not Force 10. you're watching them with a different understanding that this is a different type of movie experience. It's not as visceral. It's more experiential and journey based or something. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So with the Smallville section, then after...

After he's a baby and it goes before Jonathan's death, can we talk about maybe like the first... Bizarre slash mistake of this movie is the non-Christopher Reeve Clark Kent casting yeah it's odd because you feel like Reeve could have probably pulled it off even I mean and it's combined with the weird wig yes the running The nose. Gag that doesn't work. It's a fake nose. But is it Christopher Reeve's voice? Yes. Yeah, it's. It's.

It's a bizarre choice, but there's like five different reasons why it's bizarre. And yet I find the guy likable. I like him as an actor, but you're right. It just doesn't fully. That he's so close to even age. Those two actors probably only have like three years between them. Yeah, let me actually look that up because I was looking that guy up earlier. And he kind of looks like Last Starfighter or The Paramedic in Home Alone 2. Oh, yeah. Or Home Alone 2. Halloween 2, Lance.

guest is that his name yes when i was a kid they all looked the same but like yeah the fact that him and reeve Christopher Reeve. Jeff East is his name. Jeff East. He was born in 57, still with us. And Christopher Reeve was born. in 52. So they're five years. Only a five-year difference. Yeah. In another movie, you would have maybe just cast a 14-year-old, 15-year-old to play.

Because I know why they do it. They do it so that when you first see Superman in a suit, it's Christopher Reeve. Right. And you don't spoil Christopher Reeve looking like a milquetoast at high school. I think that is probably more important. But if they're going to make that choice, then just have like a puny 15 year old kid kind of play like this. Yeah. And so the fact that they're close in age is weird. That wig.

No fake nose thing is weird. It's a fake nose. Yeah. It's like a little, like they put something on his nose to make it look. Oh, I've never noticed that. And then the voiceover is weird that they, so you're doing all this. Just to then put the actor's voice, and I guess Jeff East.

Didn't like that, by the way. That wasn't in the cards. In post-production. How David Prowse didn't like that they dubbed his voice. Which connection here is David Prowse trained Christopher Reeve. He had six weeks to... to get him from puny to Bill. He does kind of have a prowess, like a physique, a prowess. A prowessian. Yeah. And then... Something that they wouldn't have known while they were filming this, like the goods that they had in Christopher Reeve as an actor.

But the thing that's amazing about Christopher Reeve and his career, but in the Superman movies is like the versatility. Like, oh, this dude can play Superman and Clark Kent. It would have just added to like his strength as an actor. You're like, and he plays. Clark Kent as a high schooler. He can do it all. He makes you believe in the high school version of Clark Kent. That would have been cool.

And then I hear you though, like to wait to see Christopher Reeve when he's first in the suit. But I think also if they had just cast Christopher Reeve in this part, like just do that. it would have bridged this really weird kind of gap that I'm sure in the script it's written this way and maybe would have been, is what it is. And maybe it's in the comic books, but like. to any of the Clark Kent Smallville stuff. He is just like a moody little bastard.

It could have been scripted that way. It could have been in the comic books that way. But if Christopher Guest had played that part, Christopher Guest. Christopher Reed. Hey, let's do that. I'm going to bite my pillow. Big Krypton. Big Krypton. Talk about mud flaps. My Krypton's got a... Nobody knew what they were doing or who they were or what they were doing. But if he had played Clark Kent in high school.

he would have found little comic moments. Yeah, that's for sure. To show him kind of be this like nerd lead or whatever he's supposed to be. Like, yeah, there's a huge. And you could put this maybe at the feet of like Richard Donner. There's just like a pretty big gap in who Clark Kent is in Smallville. And then this kind of like klutzy, silly Clark, like.

What happened to Clark Kent between those two weeks? Because then it makes you even go like, whoa. But the klutzy thing's not real. That's put on. I know, but then like. He decided that between like, it just would have felt more hand in glove if that choice to be kind of klutzy. I mean, I get that in the movie. It's supposed to be like the parents are foisty on them. I'm like, I want to.

score the big game, like win the big game. Why do I have to do this shit? Like that he wouldn't be, it's like after his dad dies, he goes, okay, I got to take the lessons from my dad and become like a clumsy guy. But like. This is something to track through these movies. By Superman 3, it becomes like... that Clark Kent is doing some of this klutzy shit. Because there's a part where he doesn't know Richard Pryor is a bad guy yet.

But like when he goes back to Smallville and Richard Pryor does that crazy thing where he like dresses up as a general. Oh, that's right. And he's like, we need plastic or whatever. It just feels like something Richard Pryor wanted to do. But like when. Clark Kent like gets out of a car. His klutziness, his demeanor is... to open up a car door into Richard Pryor. Oh, that's right. Richard Pryor was like, oh!

So it's like, okay, Superman, you're pretending to be klutzy, but now hurting innocent people to do that. Like it becomes like. pathological by Superman three of like, Whoa, dude, you've got to pump the brakes on this clutch stuff. Like you're going out of your way. That's causing harm to others. You psycho.

But if he had maybe like fumbled some footballs. Also, I really wish they would do like a George Lucas special edition treatment with the Smallville section and put the asshole from Superman three. Like digitally put him in the football team. What's his name? I have very little memory of Superman. That guy was like all drunk and stuff. He's like, listen, Clark. I don't remember that. Oh, if he had been like. No one comes to Paul Kent's funeral.

two other people were there. It's very sad. That's true. And just the like cemetery workers. Yeah. You think he would have had at least like a brother show. Yeah. I don't have any more Smallville notes. That's it for me. Then we get into... Metropolis. Brad, that's the jock. This is maybe my favorite. Other than I love the Krypton sequence, this is my favorite segment of the movie, just getting to Metropolis, getting to see Superman start to do his stuff.

Yeah. The helicopter scene, the dress and matching cap that Lois is wearing. The famous, you've got me, who's got you. Yes. Oh my God. I know. Cause what is it? It's the helicopter. It's the cat burglar, the boat, the boat car chase. And the boat's just there at the front of the. That's actually a lot of work to put on the cops to have to get rid of that boat. He could have just brought them in. Kind of a bit of a like.

Okay, we get it, Superman. Also, one of my favorite movie tropes where because he saw... a man wearing blue flying through the sky, that means he's too drunk. He was like, you go back to the bar and finish what you started. You know, when you get drunk, you see things. I know. But also, oh. that Smallville section. Yeah. Maybe the most egregious product placement in the world with that Cheerios box. Oh yeah.

The Cheerios logo is on both sides of the box. What have you ever seen a cereal box like that? I never thought of that. Like it's there in the kitchen, you see it and then they go outside and it's like flips. That's so funny. So you still see Cheerios. They should have a little maze on the back or whatever shit that is that you see as a kid. Transitioning between these two segments is when...

you get Christopher Reeve at a distance from far. And when he flies that camera and then that's when that kicks in. It's so cool. The Fortress of Solitude. Yeah. just lightly starts coming in when he makes the trek up to the snow and he tosses that thing. And then as the sequence goes on, it's like a... you start hearing it like get more and more powerful so that by the end that thing is just like blaring and he flies the camera and then yeah the um

Oh, the exterior shot of the Daily Planet before they go inside it. That gets like... to our point of like how these movies are a little diminishing returns budgetarily. They reuse that exterior shot again. So like in Superman three, which is in 1983, it looks, that world looks entirely different now.

they'll use that exterior shot of these like late seventies people like walking by and I'm like, wow, the same people, the same clothes. Look out for that. When he gets going as Superman and there's, I just remember that. everybody in the theater going crazy when he looks at the newfangled telephone booths that don't have doors, which is funny because... Telephone booths have glass doors.

And then the, say, Jim, whoo, that's a bad outfit. I have always loved that. Did you hear that when you... stepped out of the fiddlers three and your yes i did that's a bad same guy too yeah that um and in the original script like they kind of go like um they talk about like oh in the original script

Mario Puzo put in a Kojak cameo. Have you heard that? Yeah. He was looking at you. Who loves you, Superman? Who loves you, Superman? And they go, can you believe that? I'm like, this is the same movie that has a Rex Reed cameo. Like the film critic. Oh, yeah. And then also has the guy say, that's a bad outfit. Like this movie is entirely superior to the Kojak. No, I've just never occurred to me how weird a catchphrase that is. Who loves you, baby?

Who loves you? Meaning like more than I do? Like who loves you more than I do, baby? Or just who loves you? Plus he's always got a lollipop. Maybe it's the like sequel to the old Abbott and Costello routine. Who's on first? Who loves you, baby? That pro ball player loves you, baby. So I hate the who's on first routine. It's like, what kind of fucking crazy baseball team is this? All these last names. He figured it out.

Use some real names every once in a while. Make it work. Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder have such good chemistry in this movie. Oh, boy. I mean, I... Margot Kidder, first crush. Yeah. Beautiful brunette. And... her introduction is awesome like it's through the lens of jimmy olsen's camera she like comes into focus and their repartee is so good and i also like kind of how like um the beginning is like You know, he opens up the bottle. He like wipes his crotch.

She like dabs at his thing. And then like a minute later he walks behind her. she kind of feels something that like, there's like some real sexual chemistry between these two. Not climaxes, but builds to their flying scene with this amazing theme. But like no movie I've ever seen, it's not a song. She just in her mind recites a poem. Oh, it's the best. A rhyming poem that she's-

soliloquizing to herself and us that he can't hear. She's testing if he can read his mind, but she's doing a poem. She's improvising a poem. It's so strange. It's so like... Yeah, very much. It reminds me a little bit of like, I wonder if this segment would have been the same way if not, if the raindrops keep falling on my head sequence in Butch Cassidy.

Didn't exist. Yeah. Whatever kind of musical interlude that's like outside the reality of the world. Like, wait, a BJ Thomas song is happening in old West times. Yeah. She's reciting a poem while she's fighting there, but. That is, I mean, in the grand tradition of when you're a kid.

the boring scenes end up being your most favorite scenes when you're growing up. It's true. This is my favorite scene of the whole movie. I was so bored by it and it goes on long and I guess it took three months to shoot this whole scene and it reminds me of

initially of like the Thunderball underwater sequences going too long, but you could tell at the time they're like, no one's ever done this before. This is incredible. People are going to, it's going to blow their minds. Same thing here. You've never seen. a man fly so realistically, then still take a woman with him. I mean, the effects are like, because it's practical and in camera, it looks real. Most of it looks really good. Yeah. There's only a couple of dodgy spots, but like.

And it is like the performances like that flying stuff wouldn't. It'd be half as powerful if you didn't have their... Just amazing, beautifully acted scene on the balcony before they fly, which is just the sweetest scene in the world. But it's also funny and sexy. Christopher Reeve, he pulls off Ernest. so incredibly well without being, I mean, there's an element, an inherent element of Superman that is corny, but it could go too far. He can, man, he rides that line so perfectly. And I don't.

You know, Brandon Routh, I think was good, but he was like Lazenby having to follow Connery. Yeah. I don't have super high hopes for this. new movie just because it's in the mode of of this era's superhero movies and even if it's still going to be more earnest. I'll give it a shot, I'm sure, but I just have no excitement. I mean, he had Christopher Reeve has everything going against him that it's like there hasn't been. a non-laughable superhero in the popular consciousness for

15, 20 years by that point. Oh, yeah. the Batman TV show is funny it's like goofy they're embracing that it's like goofy this you're supposed to take him seriously it's during a cynical time and he's just supposed to be goodness When she says, what should I, who are you? What should I? And he's like a friend. Yeah. That's like the best thing in the world. It's like beautiful. It like makes me so happy. And then when she's interviewing him.

it almost has this kind of like modern feel of like, um, somebody a woman from GQ was interviewing like a movie star how he just kind of sits there at the chair and he scratches his cheek while he's like getting interviewed by her but then the like um A line that could be so weird and creepy.

is actually kind of boyish and sweet when he says, I like pink too, Lewis. Oh, I like pink very much. Yeah. When he's like, do you eat? Yeah. When I'm hungry. Oh, of course, of course, of course. Like their acting is so good. And I think. you know, you hear that like, this has to be manquets. Yes. Yeah. They, they like talk about in the behind the scenes features that it's like Margot Kidder and Christopher Reeve didn't get along. Like he thought she was like, um,

unprofessional and she thought he took things too seriously so like in those scenes where like there are up on wires just the two of them for hours every day like you can imagine like oh if two actors aren't getting along that would kind of be a particular type of hell that you're like harness together just the two of you trying to like make effects shots work I feel like I'm watching chemistry that's there it is there and it is I think precisely because of that

dynamic. Christopher Reeve is like Juilliard. taking it very seriously. That fits perfectly in a Superman role. And then for Lois Lane, kind of being this post-hippie, like Margot Kidder's biography is that you read Easy Riders and Raging Bulls.

And there's a segment, who knows, that book could be all bullshit, but there's a really funny section in there where Spielberg was dating Margot Kidder. Oh, really? And he walked into the room once and she was like... naked or she was wearing a dress without any underwear and eating like a big bowl of chili. And he came in and he saw that her legs were open and just kind of like being free. And he was like, Margo. Like, she's like just this cool, like groovy, like.

Like actor who's like playing Lois Lane. And then you have Christopher Reeve who's like taking this very seriously, whatever that chemistry is between those two. It's just like. hey, bottle it and put it in. Gene Siskel makes a really good point in his review of Superman 3 where he's like, What's missing from this movie is... A Superman movie isn't good if it doesn't have a good romance story at the heart of it. And it's true. They really...

blew it. I mean, I like the woman who plays... Annette O'Toole. Yeah, she's awesome. I love her, yeah. She's amazing. And the character that she plays is great. And Ann Archer was supposed to play Lois Lane originally. No kidding. I think it was cast. Whoa. I'm not sure what the story is. That's funny. It would have fit in with our Fatal Attraction, Patriot Games, and Archer trilogy. But yeah, she... It's just fantastic. I mean, acting in this is so good.

Yeah. You can have all the special effects in the world, but if those two didn't like have chemistry and the dialogue wasn't good and the music, it's just, it's beautiful. I love that section. So then... Oh, also, we've talked about this before. When you're like... you're a kid and you're kind of in that like your brain is like still forming and you see something just like sounds and textures will

fit in your brain more than like plot points or like a performance will. So like there's a combination of. the texture or whatever, the sound of the bullet in his hand and dropping it on the floor. fits with the sound of the purse that she's holding that kind of like the material of the purse. But then Otis eating something in his mouth when he's walking to the subway and then this click. of his like shoes on the train tracks. All that stuff is like,

just like nascent brain stuff. I'm like, I love those sounds and that texture. It's so good. What do we, so then we get the Luthor introduction. Just the way he comedically riffs off Ned Beatty. Oh, my God. Ned Beatty, who at the time is most known for Deliverance. Deliverance, yeah.

Gene, I've been just treating him like the people in Deliverance do. He's just like, you're my little guy who I push around. But he's like... so funny like timeless funny like it's still funny in 20 like the same way that the special effects still work in 2025 yeah his performance still works i know but he's like what does he say later he's like

Otis, it's not that I don't trust you, but I don't trust you. His delivery on that, I think, is... It's better than I did. It's not that I don't trust you. I don't trust you. It's so good. Oh, God. When he says, like, the mysteries of the world. Like, why would I keep, why do I surround myself with such nincompoops? It's like, yes, Luther, ask yourself that question. What do you do? Like, I always imagine it's like a funny. Narcissist thing where like Luthor couldn't bear to have somebody.

even close to his intelligence level because he doesn't want anybody like... Yeah, even more than narcissists, it's more an insecurity thing of a great genius like that of just going, I have to be the big fish in a little pond. Which is like... Nixonian or whatever, which is like, no, dude, if you really want to remain having power, you need people who aren't just like pushovers. You need people who like push back and go, no, no, no, no, you're not.

your thinking is clouded about this dude. Like if he had just somebody with like, a little bit more intelligence than Otis. Like he could have like taken over the 38 galaxies or whatever. The 28, the known 28, the known 28. Um, And I love his real estate scheme. Yeah. That's good. And then the way that they get the missiles that involves Larry Hagman as a military. But I love that the whole thing fails with the car crash.

So they just happen to have a double wide house, mobile home on a flatbed truck. on hand and ready to go for the same convoy. It's so funny. How loony is that screenwriting? That it's like... They do two attempts. That feels Lesterian, like it's Richard Lester getting already there somehow. I mean, it's not the act of a modern movie. They would just go like... They make the attempt, they get the missiles. They do these like...

Two, like they have a comic moment with like, yeah, Larry Hagman, which this would have been. Like two months after Dallas premiered. Yeah. They filmed this before he was like J.R. Ewing. Interesting. But now you have this thing of like, wait, fucking J.R. Ewing's in the center of the... It's the same way where like...

Carl Weathers plays kind of a similar part in Close Encounters as the guy who's like... a military guy who's like on a road and kind of a, a landscape, Southwestern landscape, who's saying like, you can't go here, but that was filmed before. Rocky had come out and been a sensation. I dream of Jeannie had been out, but Larry Hedman showed up in some other- Oh, what is it that he's in where he kind of has a cool little arc in a movie, a more serious arc?

Well, I just said Nixon. I know he's in Nixon. There's an amazing scene. Is he? Yeah, there's an amazing scene in Nixon where it's like, Oliver Stone, you really couldn't. let it go without having some sort of JFK assassination plot, like a bunch of these Texas oil men. And of course, like in the limited imagination of Oliver Stone where he just casts people. fully to their type.

Larry Hagman is like a Texas oil guy. Oh my God. That's. But then he's like, we want to get your interest in this JFK fellow. We got to take him out. And Nixon's like looking around at these like Texas guys being like. Talking about how they're going to take out Kennedy.

But I don't know what the... I'm looking it up. Well, he was in Failsafe. Oh, it's The Eagle Has Landed. That's what it is. Oh, that's right. That's what I was thinking of. It's a whole movie with all these stars, but they're all... soldiers in world war ii nazis and they're all basically the bad guys it's not like they're trying to like go let's get out of this german army and the only american recognizable person on the good side is larry hagman as adolf hitler no as an american

And then he's in Failsafe, which is the serious version of Dr. Strangelove. That's right. I've never seen Failsafe. I haven't either. I want to watch that. I went to... West End productions in the movie theaters in America. I went and saw the... They beam it. Yeah, they beam it up into a satellite and beam it down. I saw the Armando Iannucci... Dr. Strangelove? You did? Was it good? Oh, yeah, probably couldn't be, right? Yeah, it wasn't... Is it very similar? It's like what, you know...

There's some bombastic performances in the first Dr. Strangelove movie, to be sure, but a lot of it's strength. what makes it so funny is how dry yes sterling hayden yeah and um um i mean george c scott is really the only person who like cranks it up um but like

Yelling. It's just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Guys, it's like almost somebody just saw clips from Dr. Strangelove and took their impression. Whatever, you can have it. Is Steve Coogan playing all three roles like Sellers did? And he's playing four roles. He's playing Kong? Yeah, like how sellers are supposed to. And his Kong is funny. It's like a little bit more...

You can tell. And Steve Coogan's great. I like so much. He's like the best. He was on Conan the podcast early on. And I remember after he left, I was like, I have a little man crush on that guy. Yeah. I mean, he's like, um, phil hartman or something where you're just like oh he could just be a great actor he just is also using those skills to be really funny yeah um but like Yeah, it's just a little too bombastic. And also, it's really wild. They do this thing where they... monkey with the plot.

What's amazing when you watch Dr. Strangelove is that nobody's really making any, outside of Jack the Ripper, nobody's like cuckoo humanity is like... messing things up. It's more like, ooh, we have to deal with the cards that are given by this mechanism that we set up. In this, it's not like the bombs. Oh, it kicked off this domino effect. And now there's going to be nuclear warfare when we didn't intend it. But now we're locked into this thing. They'll just be like.

Russia is now going to retaliate. They've chosen to retaliate. And you're like, well, this is every fucking war movie I've ever seen. We're just like, they're talking about how there's going to be a retaliatory attack from the other thing. what's in strange love is like this cool thing of like, you know,

Oh, if one bomb is set off, it actually sets off this other thing and you can't control it anymore. Oh, the doomsday device. Yeah, so it just becomes this kind of like conventional war thing. Oh, that's weird. That's not funny. I was really excited to see it. I'm sure I was had too high. Does anyone else have name in that? Hmm.

I went with a couple of buddies and they had recognized some people that they knew from different productions, either in the UK or like on the West. But also, What's up with the like metropolis is New York. It's the same thing with Gotham City, Chicago, you know, basically. But like... Or is Gotham City supposed to be New York? I mean, there's some real, but the Statue of Liberty and the Twin Towers only exist in New York.

Like, so it's like, wait, so does New York just not exist or New York does exist, but it doesn't have the Statue of Liberty? I think New York doesn't exist and it's just called Metropolis. It does exist. It's just called Metropolis. One thing that I loved about the Batman versus Superman, the much maligned Batman, they do this cool like... idea that Gotham City is kind of like a hop, skip, and jump away from the metropolis. Yeah, I love that. That's good.

Luther's lair, the set is incredible. The production design again. And I believe there was never any of this like crystal. There was the crystals from the comics maybe, but not this. like diagonal cross hatching of this groomed crystal ice that was all invented, I think for the movie. And then this, the idea of putting Luthor in a.

like deserted subway. So imaginative. And making a pool out of it. It's incredible. Who did all this work? It's like you get into that bond question of what contractors did you use? But that he's interested in real estate, too. So it's kind of funny that he found a way to get prime New York real estate.

What other person could have an apartment? But does he own it or is he squatting? I think he's like squatting. So he also seems like... he has money and he has that groovy like surveillance system with like the different cameras and then her like fake ocean on the projector screens and then the film runs out. Yeah, like the imagination of not just making it a bad guy layer, but this kind of like repurposed.

subway station that like grand central station area. I'm trying to think of cinema versions of that. Cause in the man with the golden gun, M's like field office is in a sunken. Royal Navy vessel in the like Bay of Hong Kong. Cool. But it's sunken at an angle. So they've built like- And my six has actually built desks that are flat on top, but slanted at the bottom. Oh my God. And so they walk in on a slanted thing. There's another couple that are on the tip of my tongue like this.

like found spaces. Yes. I can't remember. Um, I mean the, uh, it really, you know, some movies will feel like a little like, um, elephant team. Is that how you pronounce it? Like sort of bloated and big when they make choices like this, but it does serve Superman really, this movie really well that like,

That scene where he's like on the, everybody wishes they had a whole like wall of books with a little like glider that they can go back and forth on. I almost did that in here, but I just didn't feel like there was the room. It seems like a very girly thing that would be in here. I was thinking multiple times, like it's. I thought about doing it. But the like.

of that production design makes that whole exposition scene just go down so easy. They're just talking all this jargon about his plans and what he's doing. But you kind of like don't mind it because you're getting a look at like a cool bookcase. It's the best. I know. It's great. And then all of his like. Yeah, kind of Bond-y stuff, like the self-driving car. Yeah. And then I love his disguises.

He's in for a moment. He's like in a CB radio type movie where he's like a trucker. But then like the one random time he has like a blonde wig. It's just great. They don't. explain it either. He's just got a collection of not just wigs, but different wigs. Yes. It's so great. And I love that like Otis as like his sort of like possible like secret lover like finds his wig in the bed and like.

hides it for like oh i don't want to see lex gotta have to some privacy i feel bad that he uh these wigs um the little section two of the, um, him speaking to him through like the, the dog whistle, like, Oh yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. Um, the, uh, um, probably the biggest laugh for me anytime I watch the movie is like Otis Berg. Yeah. It's so funny that Otis.

And Prima went down and wrote his name and then just so dumb he can't even have an S in the right way. But what really makes that a funny moment? Like that could just be funny on its own. that Lex Luthor is naming the cities. And he just goes, Otisburg. He reads it. Otisburg.

Otisberg, wait a minute. For a moment there, I thought that was real. Otis's explanation is, well, Mrs. Tesmacher got her little place, so she did this. She thought it'd be nice if I could just, it's just a little, it's just a little. The same way that like, I don't think there's many theme songs, movie themes where you can say the title with the thing. I mean, Pauline Kael in her review of Superman even kind of ribs John Williams about it. Like, wow.

Writes a score so on the nose that you can go... Superman like yeah Superman Star Wars yeah yeah yeah but with this the that's why Indiana Jones you can't really do it he probably read that review and It's like, okay, I hear you, Pauline. Indiana. Well, my friend Adam and I used to go, Indiana, Indy Jones. Oh, yeah, that works. Indiana, Indy goddamn Jones. Even, can you read? my mind. Do you know what I sing with that? Can you read my mind? I am here. I am queer. I'm Superman.

that's no judgment or anything. I'm just saying like those words fit. They do. Hey, the heart wants what the heart wants. The melody wants what the melody wants. But in the same way that you can sing Superman, the key to doing like a Luther thing is. Like I was working once with somebody on a set and out of nowhere, this person, I fell in love with them because out of nowhere he went. Miss Tessmacher! Oh, yeah. Miss Tessmacher! So good.

So then this last 24 minutes, the kind of like destruction zone. I, my first, like, but before that, the little section where Miss Tessmacher gets Superman out of the pool. Yeah. That is, in my memory, the first time I got feelings in my stomach. Like for a girl? Yeah. Yeah. There's some amalgamation of like... that they're in a pool. And when I was a kid, a couple of times I remember like going underwater to kiss somebody.

So that's kind of in there just like pool times, bathing suit times, whatever is like all in there. But that she's like caretaking. like she's like being like kind of like a mommy, like taking care of him. Yeah. That like, then she kisses him. Then she kisses him. And she's like wearing like a wet t-shirt. Yeah. And then the like final kind of like little added data point of like whatever psychological stuff coming together is like.

It's a bad girl becoming like a good girl. Yeah. Like, Oh no, no, no. She was, it's like turning the bad boy. Good. It's like seeing her like make that flip too is like. Of course, when I was a kid, I was going to have that reaction I had. It is funny that Superman, I was like, yes. Girls are pretty. That's what it took. You're missing the point of this story. It's about a Superman. Yeah, the title should have been called Pretty Girls.

Alpine village that he saves that like in the middle of the desert of central California is just this lush green verdant Canyon village of about eight houses and no commerce. What commune is this that he saves? Also, we'll get into this time travel thing. Yep. I'm willing to completely buy all this. I get it. It's science fiction, everything. It's more of the logistics of the timing of he goes back in time.

And right when he saves that village, that's when he realizes Lois is dying. And so he has to race there. He's not soon enough. So he goes back in time so he can be there in time. Does that mean we don't see this village or Jimmy Olsen could have been killed, but that village in particular. Interesting. Yeah. He had to be there to save that village.

That's true. I think it was Jeff on the stream wrote that maybe Donner had said that Superman is not turning the earth backwards. It's his POV on going back in time himself. But I don't know about that because regardless... Tony here, too. I'm just looking at the live stream here. He points out it's less glamorous, but in the second Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie.

They set up in the layer in an abandoned subway station as well. That's right. And so does the MI6 in the Brosnan bonds. Yes. And then in... The Craig Bonds as well. So do you think there's like a world where James Bond is bumping into the Ninja Turtles and Superman? The crossover we've always wanted. Oh, and Penguin. Oh yeah. That's right. He's like doing a little subterranean. Yeah. By way of the Arctic world. Yeah. That's right. Amusement park. I noticed that when Lois.

pulls up to that gas station. I think she's listening to Toto. No, it's REO Speedwagon. Oh, okay. Give it a little bit. Yeah. And this is another great cinematic trope of driving away from an exploding gas station too. Halloween 4. Superman. Christine. Christine. I think Robocop. Maybe he's walking away. Robocop. I think that's the best one. Yeah. What is really good. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't think body bags ended with the gas station segment ended with the gas station blowing up. Maybe maximum overdrive. Thank God we've covered... most of those films. Almost all of them except for RoboCop. Yes, you're right. Would we ever do the RoboCop? Oh, that'd be fun. Trilogy. Yeah. Well, that's another one that dives exponentially. You can do a quad of those because then the remake.

Oh, that's right. And there's also the TV show. Yes. In the tradition of hard R movies that were turned into children's cartoons. Oh, that's right. Rambo, Police Academy. Star 80. The Star 80 cartoon. Even like... It was never a cartoon, but like...

Caddyshack 2 is like a soft PG like romp. That's a sequel to like a very raunchy movie. I think Police Academy 2 might be PG-13 as well. Yes. And then by... police academy three they're like pg yeah then they're like for children yeah i mean i remember we had a city under siege printout ad put up in our hallway of my school next to our drinking fountain to let kids know, Hey, the new police. Really? Yeah. How funny.

It happened a couple of times that year. I don't know if they had some association with the movie theater that... they were allowed to advertise in the school. But as a kid, getting a little slice of Hollywood was the best. But that sounds illegal somehow. I know. Maybe they did. They donated to the school or something. I mean, I think it was probably some lack. Chamber of Commerce. Yeah, right.

School board. Catholic school. Oh, it was Catholic school? Yeah. Oh my God. Oh, did you know I did 13 years of Catholic school, man? I don't think so. Yeah. K-12, baby. Amanda went. K through eight. Yeah. Yeah. I would do, um, on Friday, every Friday we went to everybody in my whole school went to church. Right. Sounds great. Oh, you know,

getting out of class to go do it. It wasn't too bad. I mean, it was something you didn't have to like, you weren't going to be tested on it. Exactly. It was like a little break. Yeah. Um, but then we would also do these like, um, they would bring in like eight different priests from different parishes and you we would in a lineup Point this one out. Which would hurt you? All of them. But the.

they would set them up in different corners of the church and we would do these like big confessions. Like speed confessions? Yeah. So that you could go and get in lines and we could get an hour done getting all these confessions out. And when I would leave confession, it would be the same experience I would have where I went to the dentist to get a cleaning where it would feel like. My mouth is so clean. My soul is so clean. And then you'd be walking out of there going like.

I'm going to brush my teeth every day. Oh yeah. I'm never, I'm never going to sin. This feeling is so good. I'm never going to go back to, and then like four months later, I'm like, I, Touched myself. Four months later. The next day. No, I just mean when confession would roll around in a few months and stuff. Oh, it only come every four months? Yeah, and my mother told me that confession now, that sacrament, there's been a major dip now.

The Catholic Church doesn't really push confession that much anymore. Interesting. People don't go to confession as much anymore. It's kind of like... You can say it. What? Well, I think that's why the world is in the place it is right now. Most people aren't getting absolved of their sins, Matthew. That makes sense. The... So when she falls into the thing and then, yeah, Superman saves her. scary to see Lois fall into the crack.

but more scary to see superman get upset i know and he really does it's good acting yeah i mean it's melodramatic but it's good and it's like And this is where the editing is so good. Your dad gets upset or something. Yeah, you're seeing him get upset from a low angle.

And it's like, he screams and then you cut right to a wide angle above him and he zooms up at you. Yes. Intent to fix it. And you know, like, I know it's a pretty big do X. Machina that he can go and reverse the world and the logistics that a that would mean that a rock rolls back up a hill and goes back into place is a little silly yeah it really does boggle the imagination just just

All of it. Because I once asked a scientist what would happen if this really happened and everyone would fly off the earth because the gravity would stop. Not the grab, not the mass. The water of the Hoover Dam wouldn't go back up into the dam. Exactly as it was. yeah uh like

And that being said, the effect is still really cool. The lines and the sound effects. I mean, all the space stuff looks so great. So when that is happening, that's cool. And then I even like how he kind of does a little spin again. get it back rotating the way. Like the logistics of that I buy, you know, as fantastical as it is. um why does he have a memory of the past and nobody else does it's there's a lot of weird yeah i mean uh

There's many reasons why it's kind of a preposterous way to end the movie. But it works for me on an emotional level. I mean, Christopher Reeves sells it with his torment there. And I like it for two reasons. One, I like that it's kind of... I don't think 50s Batman or 50s Superman would do that. Like the TV show. No. This feels like a post-Watergate. Like wanting to clean the slate. Yeah. And, and people break rules. People are corrupt.

Cops sometimes have to take the law into their own hands to get justice. This is like Superman's version of being like a rebel. It's kind of him being like a hippie, which is like, dad's got this rule. That I'm not supposed to do this. He's being human as well. Yeah, but screw dad. He's doing it all for love. I want to do this. And he's kind of doing, he's doing it kind of in an impulsive way. Yeah, he doesn't make a choice. It's all out of love. Yeah.

so I like that oh yeah I like it it's just of all the big discs Machina it's it's insane and then I also like it that it's like um Well, this movie in a way, this whole experience of this movie has been like a big rotating the earth backwards where it's like, whether it's like. turning things back to a more innocent time, but also like reversing your own personal chronology.

Grownups who are watching Superman get to go back to like their... childlike wonder when they first watched Superman on TV or read the comic book, like whatever inner earth is kind of like being. sped back. It's a reclaiming of earnest nostalgia. Even down to the last beat, the last punctuation in this film, which is where he flies into space and then looks at the camera and smiles.

It shouldn't work. It should be so dumb and so stupid. But when Christopher Reeve, he just, again, he's so good at writing that line because he doesn't milk it. He just kind of acknowledges it. And that one smile is saying like. We had a good time, didn't we? Yes. And guess what?

There's more to come. Yes. I'll see you again. Oh, yes. That's true. It is. I always took it as like, hey, we had fun here, didn't we, guys? Come on. We're all buddies. That was a good time. We all know what we're watching. But also the sort of like, I'll be back. quality of it is really that is such a great way to end a movie like a character being like I got you you know what the Super Mario Brothers animated cartoon ends with them looking to screen and giving like a piece

And when I saw that in the theater, I thought, oh, that's their way to say that there's going to be more Super Mario Brothers movies. But now, you know, it's like, oh, that's a different Super Mario. Yes, yes. But I also like... like it because it works as a bookend too if the opening of the movie with the curtains and saying like Superman is a comic book. Superman was an old-timey movie. And now we're bringing you this new Superman tale.

It mirrors that end is kind of like its own meta little bookend. Like the movie started with like a little like, hey, this is a movie. And then his wink at the end kind of is also saying like, this is a movie. Yeah. It's second only to the greatest breaking of the fourth wall in cinema history for me, which is Smokey and the Bandit. Have I talked about this? Tell me, tell me. It just had to have been improvised.

It's early in the movie and they're just started on Jerry Reed in the truck and Burt Reynolds banned it in the Pontiac. And he's running blocker so they can get the truck to... He's got a cop on his tail and he drives behind this building and the cop drives by. And the camera's on the car and the window's open and Burt Reynolds is looking out back, the back direction, as the cop passes him by.

And so he realizes the cop is gone. He turns around, pulls the car right into focus in the frame as he's still looking back. and gives that Burt Reynolds smile. Well, I got the Gourley smile there. But he does it in a way where he goes, first he looks and it's like he's seeing the audiences there as a character. He's just kind of... And then he just drives on.

It is so goddamn good. It's kind of a little like, it sounds like Bugs Bunny, Ain't I a Little Stinker. Exactly. Yeah. It's so good. I just adore that movie. And Superman's take to the camera is strong enough that that's the end of all the Superman movies, right? Don't they just reuse that footage of the flying up to the camera? Those dirty soul kinds.

Obviously, Richard Donner filmed the drop-off of Gene Hackman and Otis at the jail. Yeah. But part two has them back at the jail. Escaping in the balloon. Yeah. And that's all Richard Donner because they... filmed all that stuff yeah in that same location and that's why it kind of looks a little

78 versus but better yes yeah yeah i know we'll see we'll see next time when we get into superman 2 yeah i'm looking forward to superman 2 the Maybe my favorite section of the franchise next to the Can You Read My Mind is the... Superman giving up his powers and becoming a regular guy. There's a lot of good stuff in the movie. The Niagara Falls. The fight in the New York streets. Yes. The White House stuff. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

President, I believe, is played by the guy who got overwhelmed by all those roaches in Creepshow. That's right. That's right. But in this case, the cockroaches are Zod. Wait, who is that guy? Oh, it's the guy from Christmas Vacation. Yes, you're right. No, it looks like him. Is it? It's Beverly D'Angelo's dad. Hold on. I feel like maybe I'm remembering a different president.

They give him like a Reagan-y look. Jack Marshall, or what is that guy's name? Hold on, let me. Yeah, yeah. Just for my own peace of mind. the, uh, uh, Oh, Clifton James is in Superman 2 as well playing this. E.G. Marshall, you're right. E.G. Marshall. Yeah. Clifton James is in it as a sheriff again. It was, you know, infamous for his two sheriff roles in the Bond franchise. Oh! All right. So do you got any more notes? No. What do you want to rate this baby?

Heck, dude, I'll give it a 13 out of 13. I will, too. What's to even think about? And does this movie end with like a see Superman again and Superman 2? I think it does one of those too. Like a James Bond style. Yeah, I think it does. Yeah. All right. So next episode, Superman 2. I think we have a commentary due this month But I want to watch the theatrical Superman 2. So we would do Superman 2 Donner Cut for next month? Yes. Okay.

And then I'm going out of town next week. So we've got to figure out a scheduling thing. We don't need to bother for that. And live screamers, thank you for joining us. Umar is like... So stoked that we did another 13 out of 13. I don't know if you heard, but when you were in the bathroom, Umar pointed out that our intrigue we trust. That was on average, our highest rated. I don't doubt it. It has to be. Cause I, for one thing I gave.

Tinker Taylor, a 14. I broke some kind of rule. Maybe you'll give Superman 4 a 14 out of 13. I bet it's... When Sunman shows up or what's his name? Commensurate with its title, a 4. all right we'll see you next time everybody the full title was superman on a scale of 10 On a scale of one to ten. Superman four out of ten. A quest for quality. Well, thanks for joining us, everybody. Bye. Bye-bye. Oh, and stay tuned for the superego Zod sketch after the credits.

Yes, I know. I have... You are my legal defender. Yes, I'm your legally appointed defender, and we have five minutes to get ready for this trial, so please let me... Is there a way to kill Jor-El? No, there's not. You're in a stasis cage. Sound and light can't even get in here, okay? But how are we talking? Because we're both in this...

We're both in the status cage. I'm sorry, I thought that you were on the science council. You seem to know everything about everything. You're the little Miss Pretty Pants of super knowledge. Because I work in the status cage. General, listen. I am Zord, General of Krypton. Fine. Who are you? What is your name? It doesn't matter what my name is. I shall call you Curtis then. No, my name is League L, okay? And I've been assigned to be your public defender. It is...

must by the seventh codicil of Kryptonian thingamazealously, whatever. Oh, thingamazealously. Oh, because Krypton means jack shit to you. Is that what it is? No, Krypton doesn't. Why are we having this conversation? You're going to be in the two spinning hoops in five minutes. I have to prepare a defense for you. In five minutes?

I shall have Jor-El's throat between my hands. I shall squeeze it until his life blood squelches between my knuckles. Okay, now we have four minutes. Do you mind if I speak? Speak. Okay. General, what I would do... I'm sorry, are you, uh... I'm mock-sleeping you, Curtis. Yes, that's what I was... If you are my defense lawyer, then I'm already gang-raped by Brainiac.

That's where I'm at right now. Please tell me you were coerced when you walked out onto that fucking balcony and announced you were going to commit planetary genocide. I will kill every Kryptonian who does not fall in line with... We're going to go with the insanity defense. And you know what? I'm also going to throw in that the weaponers... Who's there? Weapon is a card. What happened? Knock, knock. I do this four more times and then I say orange. All right. Knock, knock.

Orange. Zod? General Zod! General Zod, they've already thrown none, and whatever that chick you hung out with, they're already in there. Elsa? Zod? I mean, between you and me, you can tell she's not wearing a bra, and it's not sexy cleavage, it's droopy cleavage. Zod? Yeah? You are going to be in the spinning disks.

Jor-El. Jor-El. Okay, that's what we need to work on right there. Gorgeous. Please call me by my family name. I think I deserve that much respect. Ligel. Just call me Ligel. Ligel. Thank you. Question. It's the beef with like the sour cream and like it's over egg noodles and mushrooms. What is that? I'll be stroking off. Stroking off. Where do I get that? Zod, have you slept since I last saw you? The lights never go off in my cell. Zod!

I'm going to recuse myself from this case. No, no, no. I think you, uh, family name. Thank you. I got a new thing of hair gel. I'm going to put it all in. Oh, I would not. Slick it back. No, I like the friendly Labrador dog look you have right now. Don't slick it back. Don't slick it back.

Now, the black tunic, you have it unbuttoned down to your navel. You're going to button it up to your neck, right? No, no, no, no. Keep it open to the belly button. When did this look? If I don't put the hair gel in, I look like Billy Crystal from Soap. And that's a good look. That's a good look. Billy! Oh, Zod. I want to be more like a breakdancer.

More like a sexy, like, is he going to rape me or is he going to make love to me? Please, are you going to button the black tunic up to the neck? There are no buttons. What did you do with your buttons? More buttons. I brought you these nice duck-billed wader boots. Can I please trade them out for the calf-high black leather dominatrix boots, please? Well, because you...

But you look like faster Kryptonian kill kill right now. We need to, can, are we going to take the extensions out of the shoulder pads? Oh, extensions out of the shoulder pads? I'm waiting for more of them. They are twice as big as the last time I talked to you. Okay. I'm working on that. What three words are we not going to say when we're in the spinning rings? Don't fuck Asians. No, what? What? Three words. Always fuck Asians. What three words?

are we not going to say when we're in the spinning rings? Yeah, before that. Which direction? Downward. And we're going to have what kind of look on our face? Fully erect! Guard, let me out. Have fun getting butt-fucked in the Phantom Zone.