ROSEMARY'S BABY

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Disgust Cause nothing's more Relaxing Than the cries of death And lust So spend a ten

Chuckles? Chuckles? Chuckles was a G.I. Joe character, you know. He was a CIA operative who wore army-fatigued pants but a Hawaiian shirt top. I remember that guy. He came up, I think at one of our live shows. Cause I was actually dressed like one of our townland live shows. This is with Gourley and Russ. Satanic panic. I'm Matt Gourley. I'm Paul Russ. Hail Satan! Hail Satan! God is dead! Hail Satan! Kidding, kidding, guys. I'm not.

Oh, no, I'm not either. I am. I was double kidding. Oh, no. I tricked you into revealing that you're a Satanist. Is this how we're going to find out by the end of this run of... Well, welcome everybody to this run of six movies that are about the devil. Satanic panic. Because you can pronounce. Satanic? Satanic or satanic, right? Satanic panic. But no matter what, the panic rhyme isn't affected. Satanic panic. Satanic panic.

Satanic panic. I don't know. It just flows off the tongue. How do you pronounce V-I-E-T-N-A-M? Vietnam. But sometimes people say Nam. Vietnam. Yeah, I think they're the same people that say Iraq. Instead of- Iraq. Iraq. I'm not saying one is better than the other. No, yeah. There's a geographical and then a heavily Venn diagram overlap with conservatives versus liberals that say- NAM as opposed to NAM and Iraq over Iraq. It's interesting. Yeah. What is to be gained by not having...

people agree about the pronunciation of a country we invade, man. I think it's a lot to be lost. A lot to be lost. And that's why I call it E-rake. I do the long A. And I call it Vaya Tanah. Wait a minute. Vietnam. Viacom. Is Rosemary's Baby streaming on Paramount Plus? It is. That's what I watched it on.

And Viacom in Vietnam? Hello. Do the math and then let me know what the hell does it mean? Yeah, what is the math? It seems pretty out there. Oh, I know. I'm sorry, but wasn't the war in Vietnam happening? When Rosemary's Baby was released, hello. I mean, that's the parallel. Yeah. Forget the allegory for motherhood and childbirth. And it's all about Vietnam. Yeah.

Well, you're listening to with Gowrilly and Roost. This is the show where we talk at length in a... easy list in relaxed style about horrors, thrillers, actions, spectaculars, fantasies. And would you use maybe the word discursive? Yeah, sure. Sometimes we'll wander off. We'll maybe start an episode talking about a G.I. Joe character who wears a Hawaiian shirt. Can't think of one.

We get back around to the matter at hand. We got time for it all. That's true. We've also got a Patreon. You can go to with Gourley and Rust. No, patreon.com slash with Gourley and Rust. Just released on there. In addition to feature length film commentaries, mailbag episodes, cozy awards and tournament brackets, we did our first draft episode. And boy, is it specific. And by the way, you're winning.

I am. People are choosing yours. And I think rightly so. You really, man, I want to say you landed the plane by choosing a certain set. What this is, is we did the draft of the 80s, the decade of the 80s and a studio of all the films that that studio made in that decade. which sets would you most like to visit, either studio or location? And we each got to choose one broken down into genres. And if you go onto TikTok right now, all the kids are doing the new TikTok challenge.

Do your draft picks for 80s Paramount movies, lots and sets that you would most want to visit. While dumping an ice bucket on your head. Is that still happening? The ice. Bucket challenge. The Paramount, no, the studio specific decade contingent set location. Draft Challenge. That's right. Do it, TikTok. Let's see if you even can. And we have also just probably like 100 or so episodes there that you can go listen to. Things also that are not out there for free.

like the Friday the 13th, the Halloween, the Nightmare on Elm Street, and the Alien series. That's right. That's right. And... You get to join the live screen, which we have a bunch of fun trustees here right now. That's right. Signed in and we were chatting with them. Good crowd today. Yeah. Nice crowd. Nice crowd. Good to see everybody here. And I put the notification up late. Is that the way you're supposed to do it? Because maybe it's more, you know.

closer to the time and people don't forget or something but if you subscribe at the baby xenomorph level to our patreon you can watch these recordings live and also you can get your name read out on the program, which we will do today in this episode. I've been saving some because you want to do them on episodes where people are going to listen. So those who contribute and we thank you for your service, get the dedication and honors that they deserve. That's right. That's right. Yes.

So thank you, everybody, for joining us. And yeah, we do different...

series of movies, maybe all on a similar theme. And this is the theme of the devil. Yeah. Beelzebub. The devil. You're the devil. You're the devil. You can listen back. Gosh, I couldn't tell you which episode, but it's best to just start from the beginning. That's right. Yeah. Like with anything. Yeah. What are you going to watch? Friday the 13th part eight first? I did. Did you? That was the first Friday the 13th I saw. I don't know which one was the first one I saw. Probably four.

Four. Yeah. Yeah. But you initially watched it because you were golfing and somebody yelled that and then you were like... Friday the 13th? And they went, what? You're like, I'm going to assume you want me to watch Friday the 13th for. Okay. And I just had, it was a really she-she golf club. And so I asked my caddy to go grab a TV VCR combo. with also with a sunscreen shade.

so I could watch it. And then I watched it. And boy, did the golfing line back up behind me. I liked Rodney Dangerfield's Caddyshack. I feel like he would have a little thing that you could watch, right? 13th movie. speaking of the really funny saying four on a golf course and then you watching Friday the 13th for did you know Matt that the actress of the movie we were watching Somebody came up to her and said, you're an Egyptian leader. Who? Mia Farrow. And she went, me? A pharaoh?

And they went, yes, yes, yes. And she went, oh, okay, okay, Mia Farrow. Do you know also that someone came up to one of the supporting actresses in this film with a squash that they wanted that person to put on their person? And they said, Ruth Gord on. Did you know that? As a student of film history, I did know that. The Ruth Gord? Do you know that also someone went up to, and hold on, I'm figuring this out as I speak, went up to another supporting actor and said in Italian and in the feminine.

how beautiful they were. And that person said, Ralph, Bella, me. Hey, we got two me's. I know. Oh, and I'll do a twist on your Ruth Gord on. Okay. Did you know that the actor who played the doctor in this movie, the first doctor she sees. had dyslexia and tried to say the same thing about putting, but not, but a different preposition. Charles growed in. No, it's pronounced gourd. Oh, Charles Gordon. So wait a minute, wait a minute. You got a Mia and a Bellamy and a Gordon and a Grodin. God.

Now you know the devil made this movie with those sorts of connections. Are you kidding? We've kind of been having a laugh at people. Oh, how does Vietnam connect with... Viacom and having a goof on that. But I do think there's some spooky little coincidences with this movie with The Dakota. Yeah. Well, the John Lennon of it all. What band was John Lennon a part of? Rolling Stones. No, close. The Beatles. The Beatles.

Who was listening to the Beatles and cooked up his little family to go and kill, kill, kill? Charles Manson. Who did he kill? Sharon Tate. So there's this like weird. Who was the. Wife? The wife of Roman Polanski. And almost played Rosemary in this movie. That's right. Yeah. It was her understudy. And there's like three...

scenes by the entryway where John Lennon was shot. The first time in the movie, I'm not saying this means anything, it's just more like, hey, that's kind of a weird little epicenter of happenings. And then the fact that the movie is... sinister. It's not just like a, it's not like breakfast at Tiffany's and you're like, Oh, and John Lana was like, it all has this like weird, creepy feeling. But the first time you see me a Pharaoh and John Cassavetes in the movie.

They're standing at that entryway. And the first blood you see is the woman who jumps out of the window and they look down and there's... a bloody body, I think in the like exact same spot where John Lennon would have been murdered. Um, it's, uh, and then, um, but yeah, that like, And then Mia Farrow's sister, Prudence, Dear Prudence, written by John Lennon, is about her sister. Because they went...

With them to India and Prudence wouldn't come out of her tent or something like that? Yeah, they wanted Prudence to come out and play. I love that song. Yeah, I love all the... I did a little... I took all the John Lennon songs off the White Album and I made my own little John Lennon White Album. Really? Because those songs, I love all the songs. Even Bungalow Bill? Yes. Even Bungalow Bill. But Dear Prudence is really good. I'm So Tired. Glass Onion is like one of my favorite Beatles songs.

I'm surprised there's not more of a, you know, Poltergeist is cursed. The Omen is cursed. Why isn't there more of a Rosemary's Baby is cursed? John Cassavetes died youngish. You know, Mia Farrow's had it kind of rough. Roman Polanski. Roman Polanski really did a turn, to say the least. There's the John Lennon connection. Now, I'm not a believer in any of this stuff, but I'm just surprised more people haven't.

been touting this kind of thing. Yeah, for one of the first Satan-y movies, and it's good that we're kicking off with this, because who knows? Would there have been an adaptation of The Exorcist?

if not for the success of the adaptation of Rosemary's Baby. Interesting. And without The Exorcist, would you have The Omen? I mean, it really did seem to kick off the thing of like, my kid is Satan? or is possessed. What's interesting is I've heard the theory, you know, that like the exorcist when it came out and the omen. was like somehow like an expression of whatever parents fears were about.

These kids growing up, these like hippies. They got the devil in them. The counterculture kids? The counterculture kids. But what's cool about Rosemary's Baby is the counterculture kids are the main... you know, she's this free spirit. She's got cool hippie hair. Or she's chic. She's like modern. The fact, and you know this movie's heart is in the right place, that it's like, no, no, no, no, no.

It's not the kids who are the devil. Yeah. It's this old people with their traditions that they like try to push on you. That's devilish. These kids, they know what they're, they're, they're all right. Yeah. Except for fool guy. Cassavetes? Yeah. No, not Cassavetes. Guy. Well, Cassavetes. Yeah. But isn't that, that's another little weird last name thing that the neighbors, their last name sounds like Cassavetes sometimes. But it's from the book, right? Because the thing that I've learned and...

If you're just joining us this season, all of our research is done by the wonderful Brantley Palmer, who himself is a historian and researcher. That's right. A great one. I read up a little too. Sometimes...

when I'm really into a movie, especially I want to even read more. And this is one of the, apparently the most faithful book to film adaptations in existence. Cool. Even the author was blown away by how close it is. I think.

if there's any differences it's only because because there was originally a four-hour cut of this film polanski just couldn't figure it out at a certain point he just let the editor make the cuts but if there's any differences from the movies it's only because some things have been cut from the movie not

But even details, like vestigial details are still there. Like at one point, what's the older, Roman is holding a radio. Roman, another weird little name. Roman Catholic, yeah. And Roman Polanski. Oh, right. That's right. Yeah. Why didn't I go to there first? No, no, no. He's holding a radio, which was a scene that he had gotten because it was his birthday. There's all these little details about when Ruth Gordon...

brings the chocolate mousse. They have two separate toppings so that guy can tell which one he's supposed to eat and supposed to give to Mia Farrow. And this is all in the book, apparently. But that's interesting, though, that the book... clarifies like there's a topping for her and there's a topping for him.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to give that away. Maybe they don't by giving it away. Maybe they just say. It's a suggestion of sort of like the topics. Because, I mean, the headline for this movie is like, that's like the most brilliant thing about this movie, right? It's like.

You watch it and you're not ever fully given, yes, this is happening. You're totally locked into her point of view. I mean... I'll just say it. This movie is like perfect. It's like flawless. It's so good. And that she, there are so many just like brilliant moves of like, you get further and further like locked into her point of view. Like it's a movie entirely like in her head through her eyes. They'll have, there's like three scenes where somebody goes and talks on a phone.

The camera doesn't like, isn't even in the room with that other person on the phone. She's in every scene, right? She's in every scene, but they'll film it that she's down on the other end of the hallway watching somebody go on the phone. You don't even get the like. And by the end, you're so locked in that when she goes into that crazy, you know, the baby. Yeah. The babies come home from the hospital. The darkest baby shower. Yeah. The darkest baby shower. Postpartum baby shower.

That it's like handheld and it's behind her. And wherever she's like moving her head to look at the people in the party, the camera just goes where she's. looking, there's a part where she's in the payphone. I mean, it's my favorite thing about movies, just that you can have a psychological thing happening in your head just by how something's like... framed and shot composition. So when she's in that payphone and it doesn't cut, um,

and she's trapped in there, you just automatically start having a feeling of paranoia. Especially with the Dr. Saperstein lookalike out there. Yes, yes. Oh, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, no, no. And then there's a part where she goes and calls, and it's... over her shoulder you don't see like her face as she's talking and it just gives you the feeling of like she's being watched and it might just be because normal movie grammar that you're used to is like

When somebody goes in and talks on the phone, you see their face. Yeah. But not being able to see your face just gives you this like creepy feeling of like. Well, who's that over her shoulder looking onto her? Must be one of these Greeks who's got eyes on her. What were you going to say? Well, one of the things I read is that basically the only place...

this deviates from the book, and it's not necessarily a deviation, is that the movie is intentionally left a little bit more ambiguous, even to the point in the ending where you still don't know 100%. is this happening or is this in her mind? And is it like an allegory for the pain and the labor of childbirth or is it really happening?

And then one other thing that was really interesting talking about Mia Farrow being, come with me, I'm going to sing a song. I'm standing up right now. Mia Farrow being in every scene. This, I found a quote by her that I just loved and I need to read it verbatim here. Okay.

In the rape scene, John Cassavetes was naked, but among the coven, Mia Farrow, Patsy Kelly, and Ruth Gordon were not nude, the latter two being clad in bodysuits. For the majority of the scene, a stand-in, Linda Brewerton, was used to substitute for Farrow. and then um

Pharaoh says, I appeared in every single scene of the film, except when, during the devil scene, a body double was used in my place, Pharaoh wrote. But I didn't entirely miss out on the scene. One day I found myself, me from convent school, who prayed without... I didn't dare think. After finishing that scene, the actor climbed...

off me and said politely in all seriousness, Ms. Farrow, I just want to say it's been a real pleasure to have worked with you. Oh my God. Is that from her like memoir or something? I don't know. That's wow. Yeah. I mean, that's another connection that, you know, Mia Farrow was raised a devout Catholic. So you have all this like Catholic stuff, like when she does go into her sequence.

That moment happens where the devil's on her and she like looks over and the only like kind of escape she can have is like the Pope or like a bishop telling her like, it's okay. Don't worry. I'm not going to judge you. And the gaslighting of her husband guy at the same time.

She is being pressured by Frank Sinatra, her husband, to not be in this film, to be in The Detective with her. And he serves her divorce papers on the set of this film. And she was going to quit. And the only reason she stayed is because I think Robert... Robert Evans showed her the dailies and said, you're going to win an Academy Award. And so she stayed. Hell yeah. I know that parallel of the like, her husband in this movie is an actor who's controlling her.

And then Sinatra is her real life husband who's like controlling her is like another strange little parallel. The thing too of like what you're saying about. Oh, do you think if she, did she do the detective? No. And if she did, would she be contractually obliged to get first refusal on Die Hard just like Sinatra was? She would have been the Bonnie Bedelia. Yeah, of it all.

Bedelia. The Bedelia. The Bedelia of it all. Macaulay Culkin's aunt. Buddy Bedelia, just so you know. Macaulay Culkin's aunt. We're really...

covering a primer of some of the things we've talked about. But what I was going to say was that you talking about how like you don't know that's ambiguous. It puts you like in the position. of then having to be a person you gotta like reflect on your own I don't know uh you're put in the position of the movie of like

Am I going to trust Rosemary's experience or the people outside who are saying like, Rosemary, you're kind of losing it. And the choice you make in that movie is also like a political choice. that the movie is wrestling. It's really hard not to side with Rosemary because she's the sympathetic one. Do you know where do you fall? No, no, no. I totally. You're a witch lover. No, no, no.

I think the movie is awesome because it does make you go, Oh, Rosemary's getting like fucked with here. Yeah. Like I just mean that the fact that the movie doesn't. say it means it does put you in a position of like, I have to look at my own humanity here. And you have to ask yourself, how am I seeing the world? Yes. Everybody thinks what they're seeing is literal and real and objective. Right. But that's only the case insofar as your perception, not necessarily the case through other people's.

perception. And it's obviously why we're in such big trouble these days in the world. But the objectivity, subjectivity part of it is like why it's a great movie because the camera is... subjective it's objective a lot but like it does subjective things that are like um like when they they're they're night there where they start like kissing and making out on the bed

And then the camera like pans away from them, which I guess is an old studio trick of like, they're going to start having sex. Let's pan away. But it pans away to the wall. And then you start hearing chanting through the wall. It's so. creepy but something happens in your body like physiologically when a camera starts like panning away from something you just go like well who who's who is that well do the does the do the characters know

when a camera goes away, what's happening? Or like that it's awesome scene when they get in the elevator and it does that weird, like tilting down to the attendance foot when he's like, your brain just goes like, well, that's creepy. Why is it going away from the... And you're like, well, I guess it's some sort of subjective camera. When they first get in that apartment and they're looking around it.

it's kind of like the camera's like this little like sinister force that's just sort of like swooping around them it's not just like staying in place and filming the action you're getting like yeah it's a it's a if a whole movie is sort of about objectivity and subjectivity, but then like the composition and the lighting and the colors are all kind of like giving you. That's the thing that's so brilliant about this is that it's, I think the camera and the direction is heavily on the side.

of Mia Farrow, all of this is happening. But because what's happening is so fantastical, you don't need much of it to question whether she's... experience things or not because you believe because you're with her you are Mia Farrow in this film but every time you're forced to stop and think about what she's seeing

You go, oh, this is ridiculous, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're taking a baby and there actually is an occult and there's a devil. There's really a devil and these are witches that can... And this... She was... raped by the devil and this baby has like devil eyes and that you don't get to see yeah yeah i that um she like has the um

I guess the baby's described in the book too. Oh, really? That's something that they left out. It has cross eyes and its tongue is sticking out. It's just goofy. Back then, man, yeah, they didn't have much tolerance. But the notion that you brought up of like, oh, she's in every scene, that's similar to... another Polanski movie Chinatown Jack Nicholson is in every scene and it kind of has the same feel as Rosemary's Baby of like

only one character gets like the investigative gaze. Like you're locked into what they can only see. They never at any point like cut to John Houston. rubbing his chin and be like, this is what we'll do next to screw up Jake Getty. So you're like, but it. it's kind of a thing maybe only movies really can do where you get, I mean, a book, obviously you get in somebody's heads and thoughts, but to have that like interplay between you're in their head, but you're also like are looking at real life.

but that like, it's just the suspense of you're only limited to what this character can like see or know. And I mean, I think first and. foremost maybe not first and foremost but like this is like a feminist movie yeah I mean it's like right on that it's like anybody who goes to see this movie by the end of the movie They've gotten you to like empathize and feel what it's like to be a woman with other people making decisions for you and the like complete.

Like maddening-ness of having other people decide what your life is going to be. I mean, it's like what slasher movies are awesome about. They get 15-year-old boys watching Friday the 13th Part 2 to completely lock in with Ginny by the end. You're like, I want her to survive. And she's smart like me. She's seen all the signs through all this. It just makes you root for somebody who you wouldn't socially maybe want to align. We share the same point of view.

So I do think it like first and foremost, it is like a feminist movie about the experience of being in a patriarchy. But it also like just at its like base level. It's about like powerlessness and almost like it brings you to the like primal feeling of what it's like to be like a kid who's. There's so many moments where she gets like infantilized, like when he wants her to eat the food and she's like, see, dad, I ate it all up. And then.

Doctors coming in and talking to your parents and then coming in and deciding what's best for you. Like all of those things really, they fucking rattle. All of it. Ironically.

compounded by the meta story of this with Roman Polanski's history and And not only just that aside, which obviously is, is very dark and we watched this movie, not in support of him or anything like that, but just knowing the story too, of, of when. Rosemary runs out into traffic that.

And Polanski apparently had her do that in real traffic saying, don't worry, no one will hit a pregnant woman. And she's a vegetarian and she's eating raw liver in this film and stuff like that. And a real needle goes into her arm. There's a feeling behind this film that I think the message of the film is very strongly feminist, but then that ironic version of, especially back in this day.

of missing the whole point and kind of still anything for the means to an end, even at the cost of like, there's like a mini Rosemary's baby unfolding on the production of this set. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mind-boggling when you look at the parallels between what is real for Rosemary in the film and what is real for Mia Farrow. Yes, yeah, yeah. I mean, the way power... functions that is like throughout the movie of like, you do think Charles Grodin as the first doctor is going, when she goes to him, he's going to help. Yes, you do. And. I think he is going to help her until she says, I go see Dr. Saperstein. And then in Charles Grote, you can tell he's like, oh, this is a doctor who's respected.

I don't want to be this little revolutionary who tries to buck this. Because he's not part of... No, no, no. But just the name Saperstein makes him go like, oh shit, this is a respected doctor. Right. Okay, okay. I'm going to go. Can't upset the order. Yeah. And seeing her slowly get like gaslit into like, this is.

And what's brilliant about that ending of the movie, you know, it could just end with her like looking into the cradle or the bassinet and be like, oh my God, my baby's the devil. What is so fucking like. freaky about this movie and it's like it is how evil people in power how they work is how they trick her at the end into thinking like

well, you're actually in control here. You're the mom. And the way they all like form a circle around her and like, oh, look at her with the baby. I was like, oh, this is again, like. how the system works. It's basically like, we want you to have a baby, have a baby. You're here to have babies and reproduce.

do this, do this, do this, do this. And then when it happens, they're like, oh, look at that. Isn't that so sweet? I know. And then another meta example of this is that Sinatra was quoted as saying when he left Mia Farrow, he's like, I don't want a working woman. I want a woman when I come home that has food on the table. And the parallels here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. And I think I mentioned earlier, I'd never seen the end of this film. I've seen this film once before, three quarters of it. I fell asleep. I'm just a horrible sleeper, so I can't stay awake a lot of times.

insomnia and then I somehow fell asleep because this movie as dark and sinister it is it is so cozy until it's not cozy at all yeah it really takes a turn but the first cozy moment The first, because it's also really slow and wonderfully slow. You're really just like steeped for the first 45 minutes at least, maybe an hour before anything turns dark or you know anything's turning dark. Just watching this couple and they're...

chic style in New York form and nest and build a home. And for me, obviously just watching her decorate is, is like heaven. And I was low to sleep in like the most positive way. I never knew the ending. I mean, the music is like a lullaby. Yeah. And that's Mia Farrow doing that too. Yeah. So what did you think now that you got to see the ending? It was amazing. And it was, I think I was.

I had already conflated in my mind with the end of Suspiria, where I was expecting her to walk in on a literal coven of otherworldly witches. And just the fact that she walks in on these people and... Other than the black bassinet draped with black lace, this was just any other mid-60s social soiree. Yeah. Even when she's got the knife, they're still like...

well, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Except for the nervousness of, of guy who kind of is pacing back and forth, which is a really scary moment is when. she looks over and sees him like ashamed. Yeah. He's out. Yeah. And then gets a hold of himself and.

comes and tries to once again say like, we did it. You know, look, it's worked. I'm successful. All for fame. It's so brilliant to make him an actor too. Oh my God. The way he plays it where he's kind of like laughing. He's uncomfortable. And I mean, John Castelletti is an amazing actor, like just brilliant. And like, when you watch that scene, you're like, when he's talking to me, he's like, he's like, you kind of got like the postpartum crazies. You're like, he could either be.

nervous here because he's freaked out that his wife is going through this and is having these this paranoia and it freaks him out and he's just trying to calm her or he's giggling and kind of nervous because he's like, I did a bad thing. I think it's a hundred percent. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just mean like the way, well, I think he thinks he's going to lose her because he has everything. Right. He got it. He was successful. Right. And thinks.

He's so deluded and so egotistical that I think he thought she would just go along with this. Even when he's saying, now we can move to California and start having kids. With Paramount. He says that. He's like, Paramount, Universal. Paramount is the people who are making this movie. The first line, the first dialogue exchange in the movie is about...

are you going to be doing commercial work or not? And then it being like, well, Hey, it pays the bills. Like, so just like, Oh, Roman Polanski making his first non-European big Hollywood movie. And the characters are talking about like,

Hey, people do watch this fucking soap opera stuff. When he first read Rosemary's Baby, he thought it was too soap opera-ish. But he couldn't put it down. That's right. And then Mia Farrow, she's in Peyton Place. She's a... primetime soap opera star so they're all and they're talking about how john cassavetes in the movie he's done a like a soap or two along with the commercials and then so you're already kind of like oh that's kind of meta they're talking about like

do you slum it by doing soap operas to make money? And do you do commercial work? And then at the end, like the last thing John Cassavetes says to her is like, look, we're going to go to Hollywood and get to work with Paramount. This is pretty awesome. The biographical thing too, of what you're saying with like Polanski is, I do think most of his movies are about like,

feeling powerless whether it's growing up you know grew up in nazi right occupied poland right yeah so This also just feels a little like what his experience might have been seeing like fascism take hold because it's all the, you know, like. Guy literally like takes a book from her that he doesn't want her to read because he's afraid it's going to give her like independent thoughts. So you're like also, and then how fascism takes hold is by.

reasonable people thinking they're doing the right thing, but it's like the wrong thing because they're afraid that they're going to get in trouble with power. Right. And so seeing. You know, it's also, you know, Chinatown is sort of about, God, there's just a system of power. I can't beat it. It's always going to have it, you know, we both love frantic.

Frantic is like, I'm completely powerless in this city that I don't know. And my wife has like been taken from me. Polanski is a small little guy. And I do think filmmakers. who grew up being like small little guys, they make the strongest movies about what it's like to slowly feel. Diminished. Yeah. I mean like Spielberg movies are all about like the scale of something and something being bigger than you. And do you accept it as like.

or do you accept it as a threat? But yeah, and then obviously you referenced it. We talked about it when we picked the movie. It's like... There's no endorsement of Roman Polanski as a person here by choosing this movie. It's obviously monstrous.

what he did um this is probably of all the things we've watched on the podcast the most like really having to separate great work from a huge jerk yeah like i can't think of a time that we watched a movie where the poles were that far away from each other where the work is so great there's the burning with Weinstein and we have yet to cover Ghost Dad. The Burning isn't a good isn't that great of a movie. It's kind of a shot movie. So like you're not I don't feel like the pull of

Whatever. I think you can hold the two feelings. You can be like, I like the movie and I don't like the person. I do. I know you can. I think everybody does. I think. And if somebody chooses like, hey, I don't want to.

watch Rosemary's Baby or pay the $2.99 on iTunes to watch it because it just feels like... I respect that too. Absolutely. No one should watch it or listen to this if it's going to make them uncomfortable. At the same time, you don't need... to write comments to us on patreon about it because we're we understand what this is and yeah we're grown men and can in this case have the dual feelings about this because this movie deserves to be talked about

I think so does the crimes that he committed, but we're here to talk about this movie, you know? Yeah. I think, you know, um, to like, I don't know. Maybe you have talked about it before, but it's interesting to like split a problematic people making art that like with. Music, it's easier, I think, to disassociate the artist and the work because a song sort of...

takes you to a place in your mind that's like about not ideas, but feelings. And movies, I do feel like it's a tougher thing to navigate because movies a lot of times are. ideas and attitudes especially this film yeah but I mean like Roman Polanski's movies he's taking the position of I'm I'm in support of the person who's under the thumb. I'm not in support of the thumb. Woody Allen movies, you watch them sometimes and you're like...

It feels like it's endorsing the thumb. Or his attitudes and his thoughts. It's complicated. Then you add the level of almost hypocrisy to Roman Polanski. That's true. Maybe it's a more evil thing. I know. Which is the worst devil? The one who tells you what they are or the one? who masquerades as a saint in a way. I don't know. It's also fraught and complicated. It's not something that you can easily just say.

I'm fine with this. I'm fine with this. So I think, I hope the listeners say when I understand, when I say like, you don't need to like in any way, write anything to us about, we know what we're. doing and we know how complicated it is. It's not easy. And of course it should be said we're two guys.

you can't fully like speak about the experience of the victim of Roman Polanski. You know what I mean? Which is what's so crazy about this movie because I'm conscious of what he did, but then. this movie is so effective in what you're saying. All I could think about was what my wife had to go through in pregnancy when I was watching this movie, just because I believe this is a, you know, I think I'm not alone, a big allegory for.

pregnancy and childbirth and all the and yet it's made by a man and written by a man it's so like i guess it's the the closest best version of what a man could possibly do to explore this i'd love to see something like this there's that movie Made by Alice Lowe where she's pregnant, but she's also like a murderer. I believe it's like a horror comedy. I've always wanted to see that. I've never seen it. I can't remember what it's called. I mean, I guess what I...

My hope as a progressive person in the world is that a movie like Rosemary's... can be made by a woman you know like that so the author of the movie is the one who's like also had the experience there's just something yeah a little like cringe looking on movies where somebody's saying like this is what the experience is like for this person who I am not I mean it's also what's

beautiful about art is that you go oh i can project my thoughts and feelings into somebody who's not exactly like me but we have this shared universal feeling of like and done so effectively it's yeah it is

I mean, I don't know. You could argue whether this movie is worth watching on the real side of things, like context of that. But it'd be hard to argue this movie is not effective. I mean, I can't imagine. sitting in the theater in 1968 and like watching this movie unfold would be like, I mean, Brantley Palmer's notes is like one of the first movies to use the word shit. Right. They're also like that scene. It's still like jaw dropping to me.

When they first go meet the neighbors and have dinner with him and he talks shit about the Pope. I know. I mean, that would still be like scandalous in a movie where like, yes, guy comes in and he gets all these suckers. So like, you're like, whoa, this is wild. And then. And then that the power of those two dream sequences that like, I still like.

I think they're like the best representation of a dream in any movie because it gives the experience of a dream, just sort of like the malleability of like, you can walk into one room. And you see something else and then that kind of like blends into the next experience. But it also does that really cool thing where. How it intermingles with what's going on while you're asleep outside. So like when she has the dream about the nun.

And the nun is talking what Ruth Gordon's probably saying on the other side of the wall. And it takes you a second to realize that. Yeah. Because you're also prey to like 60s and 70s movie having a lot of ADR. So at first you're just forgiving it that, you know? But the like, I mean, the dream sequences too now, you know, how many years out? 50, 60, almost 60 years out has like...

all the like tropes of like the European filmmaker, you know, like it's a dream. There's nudity, wild images, a little like.

bit of religion mixed in with nudity and nightmarish images like whatever like that's not something that like john ford no yeah but also like sam peckinpah you can tell that like roman polanski comes from whatever the same european school of expressionism that Hitchcock came from I mean and someone who was offered this movie I believe and turned it down because he couldn't see how it could be a movie it wasn't something interesting to him but I would think that Polanski was probably the first

person who was making thriller and suspense movies after Hitchcock made the genre where you're like oh this guy's the shit now he's more Hitchcock than or he's best at Hitchcock now and you'd think He's coming from Europe. He's an artistic filmmaker. He's kind of the new Hollywood. There's not really much expressionism to this film other than the dream sequences, which in context make a lot of sense. But in the real thing...

Everything's very literal. And so even when she gets raped by the devil, you see the devil's face. It's shot in a way that's so close up that you're just for a second, you get that glimpse of like, oh, cheesy, cheesy prosthetics, but... The costumed arms and stuff. Yeah, I know, but I, it's like. It works. It works. It does, yeah. And like when she wakes up and she sees like the old nude people surrounding her, I was like, oh, this is like.

You know how people are like the Velvet Underground. Not many people bought their first album, but the people who did all started a band. Yeah. I read a music critic saying, you can actually slice that even more. And each song on the Velvet Underground and Nico is its own subgenre that it like kicked off. And I think that like when I'm watching, when I was watching Rosemary's Baby and she wakes up and sees the group of old pasty.

naked people like standing and watching. I'm like, this little sliver is like what gave like was the seed for hereditary to like blow. Yeah. And you know what the other trick of this film is, is that. It's like playing on existential imagery. So everything you see in this movie that seems expressionistic, not existential, expressionistic is literal. But you think because she's going, well, I guess it's not if you're thinking she's...

having delusions, but I think we both agree that this seems like it happened in this movie. So you kind of think you're watching a European art house movie when in fact you're watching just... a straightforward horror film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, this does maybe is like the, also, yeah, the starting point for whatever people consider. elevated horror yeah probably right and that like sort of what you were saying about like um it's all

It is expressionistic, but it still looks like real life. I was thinking of that when John Cassavetes, when Guy comes over to her after she's seen the baby and is trying to... get back in her good graces and she spits in his face like when he sits down by her like half of his face is like in shadow and so it is to your point it's like well in real life there are shadows

And people can sit down and have half their face covered in shadow. But he's also this guy who's now in cahoots with the devil and his face is half in shadow. The fact that it's modern as well is like, you know, Psycho, I guess, is probably the first. But the first like horror movie. for adults, not like the blob that like takes place. Yeah. Horror drama in contemporary times. Yeah. Like.

The snap of that must have been incredible to see in 1968 because up until that point, horror is monsters in castles that don't look like your house. but now you're like in a kitchen and the light coming through the window is like, looks like the sun that comes through your window. Like it's, it's, it's freaky. The, what would you call it? The, when something is. so close to reality, but has, Oh, uncanny. It's like, it has that like weird, uncanny, scary feeling, but you know, um, Gothic horror.

I didn't know this until like the last year, but the idea of like Gothic, what that means is when the horror comes from you're in one time period. And you go sort of enter in your contemporary time, enter a world that's steeped in another era. that the person wants to continue living in. So like the person who comes and visits Dracula, it's freaky because you're like, this is old. This person hasn't moved on from the time when...

They were alive and kicking, you know, this is giving me being at grandma feelings of like, I'm in like an old thing that is kind of like stuffy and musty. But Rosemary's Baby is like the modern version of like gothic horror because they have this beautiful like mod kitchen where she's like, oh, you.

You put a table in the kitchen. And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what are these? Well, these are cushions that I put down on the window. So they're like, interesting, interesting. And then you go over to their place and it gives you that like creepy feeling of going in an old person's house with like. garish wallpaper and thick carpets and uncooked meat. Like it's its own version of what Gothic is, which is like the creepiness of when somebody can't like.

move on from another era yeah um but uh yeah and then uh then when she has to go to that party at the end it's like this old gross old person party yeah yeah no thank you Hey, I'm Paige DeSorbo, and I'm always thinking about underwear.

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The two halves of the film with the coziness, the setup is so brilliant to then take you into the darkness and the sinister feel of it all. But just the opening, you've got a skyline, pink script titles, harpsichord, and Mia Farrow la-la-las. So it's like literally being lullabied into thinking you are being safe with a mother almost. Yeah, yeah, that's true. You're almost the baby. I know that pink cursive font is so...

It almost looks like an invite to a baby shower. Yeah. Like you're watching this because it has the cursive with print. Yeah. So it's almost like. we extend this invitation to you to the Rosemary's baby shower party. And then the, just like, you know, it's just, you realize like you're in the hands of like a real filmmaker. Cause.

somebody had to choose, whether you know the filmmaker or not, you're just like, well, there was a choice here. You could have had like white text credits on black, but somebody, some stylish person. is making the choice to have it be pink and in cursive. I know, I know. With these la-la-las that are creepy. The title also made me wonder, when do you think it ended with the copyright information underneath the title?

at some point went away in movies. Oh, yeah. But it's funny because it's like, does it need to be there? Otherwise, somebody could make their own. Any movie that doesn't have that, I can just make Star Wars now? Yeah. But Star Wars doesn't have the copyright information. That's what I mean. Can you imagine if like Star Wars popped up and then the bottom said copyright 2075. It's a free game. Nobody knew this. Star Wars is free. There's one thing that this movie, I think.

is missing or not missing is not the right word. Maybe it's in the longer cut, but guy is such a kind of like a egotistical entitled man, but he seems like a realist. Like when Roman shit talks to Pope and. He's like, no, no, let him, you know, I agree with him. I agree with him. I guess you can't see it because you need there to be a reveal. But was there ever a point where guys like, wait a minute, you're telling me I can have a successful career?

but the devil's real and you're going to take my baby and all this magic is real. He, he just like goes along with everything and you, I, you never get to see, and I understand it's by necessity, but you never get to see a scene of him kind of go like, holy shit. You see, it's funny. He just accepts it. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That scene when they go first, go have dinner. Um, you know how they like the, the expression is like,

And politics is decided by men who go off in the smoky rooms, smoky parlors. Smoke-filled back rooms. Yes, yes, yes. That kind of is what happens. She peels off with Gordon. And when they come back, it's maybe like if you collected the amount of screen time where you get to see somebody's face.

before rosemary gets to see it it's like probably a collection of like 30 seconds but two of those seconds are after they've peeled off and the two guys are smoking in the room they're having like this conversation you see John Cassavetti guy like sitting there being like, I want to watch it again for that because then he goes back. He goes back the next night. Yep. So at this point he's being.

told at some point that this could happen for him. And I think the moment he realizes it's true, and maybe now I'm realizing you do get a bit of that. He's not sad for the actor that goes blind. He's actually like... holy shit, like a mix of what have I done, but also this is real. Yeah, yeah. At least it's close enough. Right, that scene also is kind of interpreted as like, I knew I was going to get the part. I was promised that. I didn't know.

how it was going to happen. And now I'm finding out it was because he was blinded. Oh my God. And did he even believe they could deliver on this? Yeah. He was humoring them enough, which is surprising in the first place. What, how did Roman convince him? Because. He's so predisposed to believe these two kooks are nuts. He doesn't even want to go to dinner. Right. And he's pretty quickly and easily convinced. I wonder how. Well, it starts with, I think, the devil, Roman.

flatters him remember they're sitting there and he's like you did this thing in a play that I saw and it was so brilliant you know it's like a little like Trump where you're like that guy probably just like flatters you for shines the light on you and then you're like whatever yeah i like how this light feels of this powerful person who seems like they know what they're doing uh but then like when he um uh

Yeah. When she comes in and it seems like they've had the conversation, what you were just talking to about, like, he doesn't want to go to the party at first. And then the next day he goes back and he's like, And Rosemary, you don't have to come. You can stay here if you want. One of the many brilliant things about this movie is that I feel like all of the interactions.

And the way the story unfolds is so... in the same way that the kitchen looks like a kitchen in a real apartment, the way that people behave is also like how people would really behave or there's like truthful moments in it. So like. How many times in real life have two people, they have to go to a party. One person's more into going, the other person doesn't. So that's like a little slice of life that's true. And then...

just this curious little thing after the party, the person who didn't want to go actually had a really good time. And the person who wanted to go was kind of, it was all right. And then. This very kind of like authentic, real interaction between two people who are in a relationship where she's trying to like talk shit about them a little bit. Like, oh my God, did you see this and this at their apartment? They had a book on a hook in their bathroom.

And then the guy who, you know, before the party was kind of, I don't want to fucking go see these people. It's kind of. I've had that happen so many times. It's so true. And the moment at the party where the friends of the partner in this case rosemary the woman kind of like pull her off and just be like hey what's going on something seems up here and the person finally feels free enough to like start talking and then the partner like

tries to get in the room. They're like, no, no, no, no. Stay out, stay out, stay out. And then the guy later after the women leave are like, those, you know, he calls them bitches. And he's like, don't, they're stupid. Don't listen to them. Like. It's a very heightened Satan-y version of a thing that probably goes on all the time in relationships. Yeah, you could take the Satan out of this movie at any point. Yeah. And it's still...

That's why it's believable she's also hallucinating all of this or having some kind of... pre and postpartum reaction, which is like obviously diminishing in the movies context, but you have a man of that time who was impatient, entitled, brusque.

And like abusive, you know, so all of it just works on its own as a, as a believable story. It's interesting too, at the beginning of the movie, I noticed when it's really sweet, like at the beginning. Rosemary is so proud to let people know he's an actor.

Like he's not bringing up, but she says to the person showing them the apartment, she's like, he's an actor. And then when they're, when she's doing the laundry in the basement and she's like, what's your husband doing? She's like, he's an actor. Like she's. proud that he's doing yamaha motorcycle commercials he's shitting on it yeah and then when he starts like ascending and it's like i got this part in this part it's kind of like

okay, I don't, that's not what it was about. I was just like, you know, like whatever that kind of like trade-off happens to of like, um, uh, you're becoming a dick. You know, whatever that is. Did you catch that when she talks to Terry down in the laundry room and she says, you look like that actress. The actress she's talking about is the real actress's name.

Isn't that cool? Another one of those weird little like, yeah. I guess there's a deleted scene where they actually do go see the Fantastics and who was it? Joan Crawford and... Alan Ladd are in the movie playing themselves. No way. Yeah. And the little modern touches like in that laundry room, how she's like, I was in bad and drugs and then they came and saved me.

In 1968, to hear that notion of like, oh, somebody was like caught up in drugs and then somebody kind of like got me out of that time period. There's all these like, and then she even says, and at first I thought it was kind of like a weird sex thing. Why they were like, there's such like. Frank talk about like abortions and periods. He makes a joke about, are they growing marijuana plants? Like that on its own must've been kind of a knockout to like watch a movie. I know. Yeah.

Somebody smoking a joint at the party. This movie is so basically literal and it tells a linear story, but it has just enough of that mystery. So you don't know why Terry falls out the window. Right. She either... find something out or goes crazy for what they're doing. You also don't know why the person in the apartment they entered was put into a coma because clearly that was done.

And shoved the piece of furniture up against the closet door. Yeah, they tried to keep them out. Yeah. And I haven't seen Apartment 7A, which is the prequel with Julia Garner. I've heard... Not great things. Some mixed things about it. 7F, if you ask me. I haven't seen it, but I've heard it should be rated a 7F. Yeah, the like...

Right, when she's dead outside the apartment, you are like a... And showing... rosemary in the laundry room the like necklace is like to the thing what you're saying about like you're not fully given all the information in retrospect you're like is this part of the ritual like in the ancient texts you procure the human who will seduce the other person by making them see like

It seems like a scam that she's kind of pulling. She's like, I thought they were weird old people, but they're actually grandparents. Which has been like how she was suckered in in the first place. So yeah. So when she dies, is that because... the ritual is to coax somebody in and whoever coaxed the person in now has to like die and be replaced. Or is it like she was originally going to be like the Rosemary? I think so because she doesn't really.

coax them in yeah she doesn't connect them the only connection is she meets them when they walk up to the scene of her falling out, which by the way, spitting image of the older couple in Cloak and Dagger when they walk up. Oh, I thought it was that actor. I know, me too. I thought it was him. Me too. And so they only meet her there. And it seems almost more like because Terry died, they're like, we got to find someone else.

And then they give her the Tannis root, which I also read was invented by Ira Levin. It's not a real thing. That's funny. And then later when she reads that, it's like devil's pepper or something like that. The thing of like.

You being like, oh, I don't think she was in on it. I agree. What's amazing about this movie, and I'm sure it's in the book, that he's an actor. That choice is so smart. So good. Because I got to say the suspension of disbelief that I have to make in a lot of like scheme movies, conspiracy movies is like. wow, everybody here's a really fucking great actor that they can pull off all these like lying scenes and do it believably to make him an actual actor in the movie.

It works on so many levels because he's also, what's the most venal profession or vain profession where you will do anything so desperate to get the attention that you want? And then also that you believe he can pull this off. Like whatever, having to like trick her into thinking like that these people can be trusted and don't worry, I'm going to take. I mean, it's also, you know, whatever, not to like say something too corny, but it's just like.

whatever that there's this kind of like performative niceness, politeness that's throughout the movie or like the like. terror of having to like keep up appearances. Like when she goes in to see Saperstein and she's like sweating because it's hot out and she sits down and she looks across the waiting room and the woman looks at her. And she like smiles. Yeah. Like whatever that feeling is of like, I'm in inner turmoil, but I still have to like smile.

That's kind of what everybody's doing throughout the whole movie is sort of like, I'm up to something, some real sinister shit here, but I'm coming over just to bring over a dessert. What's your problem? And when I fell asleep the last time, I fell asleep before I realized. I didn't know watching this time that guy was in on it. I suspected it obviously at a certain point. So I kind of got to watch this as a first time. Yeah. And it was.

because I think we watched it in COVID and I'm sure I had a couple of drinks and that's when I was, even if I didn't fall asleep, I did not remember much of it. So it was like a first time watch. That's cool. Yeah. So good. I mean, Cassavetes too is like, um, That character is so, I mean, he could easily just be the guy who's a shit. A lovable cad until he's sinister. Yeah, yeah. And then even just like the truthful.

moments in his character where like he does the voice of the guy who showed him the apartment later to mock him or he sort of mocks like Ruth Gordon her voice and does a little impression of her it's like Not something you see.

a lot in movies yeah which is how two people in a relationship kind of crack each other up by referencing how somebody talked before but when you see it you're like hey this is yeah I'd be around this like funny charming guy absolutely yeah yeah yeah and it's so romantic in the beginning

beginning with them moving in. Did you ever have a bare apartment picnic like they did? Oh, for me, that was the coziest thing. Me too. Amanda and I, our first apartment, we did that and it was so lovely. It's so romantic. Yeah. We actually had, we walked down to the liquor store in Atwater and we got two bottled ciders.

And maybe like two candy bars or something, I think is what we had. And you sat down and had the, like in this new place that hasn't been unpacked yet. No furniture. We didn't even have boxes. It was just, we had the key. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is very romantic. And in the same way that you could maybe be like, Oh, this is a little bit of ground zero or a starting point for like the, um,

elevated contemporary horror movie. It's also like, seems to be like one of the first yuppie nightmares. Like they are the yuppies of their time. They're coming in. They kind of, what's that called? When you go into a neighborhood and you change it. Oh, gentrifying. Yeah. They're doing their own little gentrification of like making the, their house look better and more modern and more young and hip. It's funny though, that we're supposed to.

Oh, the thing with Brantley, Brantley Palmer's notes in the book, they, you know, the. the place where they stay in the movie has a different name. It's not the Dakota, but in the book named after Bram Stoker, apparently. Oh, really? Yeah. That's cool that they, um, In the books, say, you could stay at the Dakota. Yeah. But in the movie, when they're walking through and she looks down and she kind of points out like, oh, look at this floor. There's a big hole.

which is another like human moment. Like when two people walk in to look at a place, but the idea that the Dakota. would ever be a shithole. I know. It's so funny. It's probably like one of the most expensive places to live in the world. I'm surprised they let this even be suggested in this movie because they allowed them to shoot the exteriors but not the interior.

So everything's a set. Yeah. And I love all those. The sets are incredible. They look so old and lived in and painted over. I always am amazed that they take the pains to do that.

All the hardwood floor in the apartment must have been found, repurposed hardwood floor. And all of the moldings and everything just looks so painted over so many times. Well, the production designer is this guy, Richard Silbert. who was like Coppola's guy. And I think was the premier production designer of the film Bratz. But...

because he also worked with Mike Nichols and stuff. In Brantley's notes, they talk about how him and Roman Polanski were the ones who... rewrote the script together like yeah he had something to do with rewriting so I think he's a bit like Richard Silbert seems like he's a bit of like a muse yeah it must be because I think he did one from the heart and it's basically like Coppola being like

Come in, collaborate with me. Give me your ideas for how things should look and feel. Cause the production design in this movie is like, like you said, it's like that apartment, it's a set, but it feels real. And then when she gets that book, it might be one of the best fake, like authentic looking fake book. Like the cover looks real, the print inside it, the way the...

Corner is folded down. It doesn't look just like a prop book that was made. Even the second red book. I want that prop. Yes, yes, yes. David Fincher in the commentary for Chinatown talks about how... gorgeous all the props are in Chinatown. I think that's Dick Silver. Is it? Oh God, it's so good. So yeah, you surround yourself with like some real great people. The coziest moment in this movie for me is when

He goes the second night, and I think it's that night, and she starts with her putting on a record. She goes to the couch with a book. Is it raining? I don't remember, but just... The fact that that time existed where the only possible interruption you get would be a phone call or a knock on the door. There was no phone, no computer, no internet. It was...

it hit me so hard how much I'm actually longing for that. And I can turn off my computer and turn off my phone. It's not the same thing. It's still nagging at you. And it's like, it's a hell. It's a type of hell and a type of curse that. I have this delusional thing that I think one day when I retire that that will go away, but it probably never will. And isn't that, that's so horrible. My wife and daughter and I went for an overnight trip to.

And I have this thing called the brick, which is a thing you can pre-program on your phone and you just scan it. And it's a physical object. And when you scan it, you've pre-programmed what apps it will allow you to have. And unless you have that physical thing, you cannot get.

to those apps. So I leave them in, leave it in the hotel room and it's so freeing. I still get that stupid urge to check, but immediately my brain tells me, oh, you can't, there's nothing to see. I'll get messages and phone calls if there's an emergency, but. It's still not the same. They never knew at that time. And I remember that time. I just want that feeling of like the only thing I can do right now.

is read this book. It just seems amazing. I know, Matt. Maybe it was like a year and a half ago, I started going kind of down. Not down. I'll say up, because down makes it sound like it's... Up a rabbit hole? Up a rabbit hole. I just started having the feeling of disgust when I bring out my phone and I look at the screen. And this feeling of like, it's the physical experience of just looking at something that's like slick and glowing that you're just like, ugh. Yeah.

combined with what the content is in that slick glowing screen a lot of times it's just like people's barf it's the nicotine of our time and people's barf it doesn't have to be like somebody getting injured it could see somebody on a nice vacation is like barf yeah like and it got to the point of like i got over a little bit but like seeing people out in life, not judging them, but seeing everybody kind of be like,

The nicotine thing is the right. It would be like having. Now, this isn't in all cases. When people are looking at the phone, it's not because they're. lonely and in need of a fix. But I'd say a lot of times it's that. So when you like are sitting there, myself included, when I do it, you look around and you're just like, look at all these lonely. People. I've just seen like sadness and like some sort of empty feeling like that I have to like look at at all times now. As people being like.

And I have the thought of like, it's funny that this isn't corny. It should be corny. It should be laughed at. Everybody should be laughing at like, what losers we all are.

You know, people speculate on this. I don't think it'll probably ever come, but a younger generation that's sort of like, you guys are whack. I hope so. I hope that the same way that... it may not be this next generation maybe a few down the road but the same way that people looked at smoking and went hey this is insane that you guys are putting

these things in your mouth and lighting them on fire and sucking in the smoke and still are. I believe that. Yeah. And then, and then some sort of, I think also when more data comes out about how much anxiety and depression we all have because of this thing, it's. all but proven. Yeah. And only not proven probably because the companies aren't going to allow it to happen. It's happening. It's there. So yeah, we, we are doing it. And it's the sad part is we know it and we still.

It's an addiction. Yeah. When did the iPhone hit? 2008? Six. Six? I think. Eight? Yeah, maybe you're right. Eight. So think of how quickly... the like rewiring of neurological, not to sound too Joe Rogan here or whatever, but just like how much like wires. Yeah. Neurologically, what a mind fuck has happened in the last 17 years. And it's been so strong. and like whatever that like the chemical that gets sprayed on your brain when you get a like

That is not necessarily something that you had in your power 20 years ago. And now you do. It's wild, man. And then the fact that what you're looking at is its own. It's not a connection to the encyclopedia. You know what I mean? Like the thing that's triggering all this stuff in your brain is also like weird and fake. I know we're not saying anything new, but fucking man, Pandora is out of the box.

You know, what the fuck? We're drinking water. It's clear and odorless and tasteless. Why are we doing that, man? You're checking in with the powers that be. That's how they get to you, fuckers. Yeah, I mean, we are like definitely like hits blunt. the way we're talking here. But like, I'd like to think we're maybe talking about this right now because we have seen Rosemary's Baby and the sort of like...

What is real? Yeah, absolutely. When something is a simulation or fake or phony, but it has a physiological... you have a physiological response to whatever is in your eyes. Yeah. Even if it's fake. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I hope you guys are taking a nice big bong hit right now as we talk this.

The humor in this film, I love. I love when the two women first come over, Ruth Gordon and the other woman. They just say, mind if we come in and sit down and just start knitting and needle pointing? Yes. Yes. And like... it is so funny and it's like I mean what's mind blowing about this movie is like it's tonal like control that like

The first 20 minutes, it's romantic. Then it becomes sinister. Then it becomes surprising and shocking. And then after all that, then you get that scene of her coming over. And just being like the funniest, nosy, pushy, classless neighbor. Yeah. That's just like a trope. But it's like so funny when she comes in and she's asking what the cost is.

It's a hilarious character. What do you think the story is with Roman and what's her name, Ruth Gordon? Ruth Gordon, I think. Yeah, I forget her name. Just because he's the lineage of the satanic guy. So she had to kind of be brought into the family too. Right. That'd be an interesting story. Yeah. And I like that when you are like the devil or whatever, you wear like a kind of a cool crushed red velvet sweater.

Vidal Sassoon, goody to credit. And then also her saying the name. And that's from the book too. Really? Yeah.

Oh, wow. I guess there's some speculation because Polanski had never adapted a book before, didn't realize you could go off script, basically. Uh-huh. Yeah. But like she, because in real life then, she cut her hair short. And then they sort of tried to sell it as like Vidal Sassoon gave her that haircut, but it was actually, that was in Brantley's notes of sort of like he gave her extensions. Yeah. But it was maybe more came from. Mia Farrow yeah but that haircutting thing too is like you see it

all the time where somebody is feeling like powerless. Yeah. You're like, the one thing I have in control of is what my hair could be. Yeah. Royal Tenenbaums when he shaves his beard. Yes. Yes. And then John Cassavetes guy. Hates it. Yeah. Because he was like, I didn't get a say. You didn't give me a heads up about this haircut. That's like why he hates it. Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. You're married to Mia Farrow and she has this like awesome like swinging haircut. Like you should be.

uh so happy man but he's just like grumpy that he didn't like I know that she surprised him um the um uh all the like on location stuff too like for a movie not to be bound by this stuffy old backlot and getting to see like I mean

I like it just as a moviegoer, the thrill of seeing like real life, but it's also, how cool is it now in 2025? It's a time machine. And when they're walking around, you get to see what 1967 New York looked like. I know. And it feels very like. Oh, and it's Christmas time. Yes, yes, yes. And oh, this movie, like getting to see the mastery of like how the seasons change. Yeah. And like the effect it has on like the light, but also like.

Her coloring. I know. Like it becomes winter when she starts getting like more gaunt. About that. They go so hard on that. On the gauntness. The makeup. Even there was a scene where John Cassavetes comes home. He's wearing a white. blazer it seems like they've made him more tan to accentuate her gauntness like he seems like he's a lot of

bronzing makeup on, which he didn't in the rest of the movie. That's true. Yeah, the makeup's a little heavy. Yeah, she starts getting those really dark circles. I know. She straight up looks like a ghoul. And they kind of disappear.

peer then too um i think that i thought of like well she starts feeling better because she stops drinking the smoothies that's right oh yes yes yes you're right but like you know it's like fascinating about this movie is you're like me and Rosemary we're in lockstep here what she sees I see and what she's feeling I'm picking up on and I you know there's something that's like

Around the time that she has the dark circles and her friend Hitch comes over. Hutch, I think it's Hutch. Sorry. Sorry, Will. Well, he looks so much like Churchill and then there's a scene where him in his place and he's got a picture of Churchill. Yeah, what's that? That was interesting. Well, when she comes over... And the thrill when Hutch shows up is like, finally, somebody on our side is going to come in and get B on Team Rosemary.

And then, and this is going to be good because I know what Rosemary is feeling and she's going to be happy that Hutch is here. The like kind of heartbreak of the scene. could also be a little bit of the heartbreak of like when you see somebody parrot like the patriarchy's like talking points like this should and then roman comes over

this should be the time where you got two against one against the Roman. Yeah. But she starts like parodying the things Roman say, which is like, I mean, psychologically it all makes sense where. you follow the advice of this person. And the whole time you can be like, I think this is kind of bullshit. But then when somebody comes along and starts going like, do you think this is bullshit? It's like, no, no, no, no. It's a little bit of like.

you know, the experience you have with a family where you're like, eh, my brother does this thing. Cause you just have a gut feeling. You don't have any real agency or sense. Yeah. And then a friend shows up and it's kind of like. It's weird how your brother does this. He doesn't do that. I know. He's actually pretty cool. There's a willingness to get gaslighting sometimes, you know, I think. And when you've been gaslit.

To repeat the gaslighting because it'd be more horrible to have to admit to your friend, I've been gaslit. Or to yourself, more likely to yourself. In the early stages, you don't want to admit to yourself. Hutch also begins that trope. horror movies. I'm trying to think of an example, but I know there are many of the friend and it's usually an older male, often a gay friend.

that somehow figures it out, but gets killed like halfway through. What am I thinking? A single white female had that. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And, uh, that's for exactly it. And there's something else too. Yeah. But that person who you're like, And it's interesting, yeah, that they are coded as gay because it seems like because this person is marginalized. Yes. And it's true of people who are.

LGBTQ which is just like yeah I had to live my life on the sidelines I have a better perspective of like what's fucked up that's going on here and I'm gonna like share it but also won't be believed by the rest of society yeah

And what's interesting about all of the like, um, when in other movies, when the person is like, you know, I love gremlins, but in gremlins with like, Billy goes to the policeman and it's like, there's these creatures and you get them wet and you turn. And then the cops go, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Santa Claus was there too. You know, whatever that thing is. It more serves a plot function of just like the person.

if they were to believe now, then they would have to be like, now the cops are on board and they're fighting the red ones. And you just can't do that with this. It's like when she goes to her husband and is saying like, I think something's up here or goes to a doctor and says it. And then they go, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, and Santa Claus too. Is he real? It's not just brushing somebody aside.

It's like they're brushing her aside because they are part of the conspiracy. Or, I mean, if I was Dr. Hill, if I was Charles Grodin, and she comes in and she comes on strong about Satan and cults and witches, I'm sorry. In the real world, I would do the same thing. And they do such a brilliant thing of making her look just in makeup and stuff.

Anybody who brings a suitcase to the doctor and opens it up and starts taking out books from the suitcase and be like, look at these books. You would be like, I mean. The two things I remember most from the first time I saw this movie is her saying the food has a chalky undertaste. Yeah. Undertaste is a term I've never heard before.

I also thought because William Castle is the producer of this and he was the guy who came up with all the like funny effects of like in a movie when somebody gets like touched. like your seat buzzes. Oh yeah. Feel around or the sense of vision or whatever it is. Yeah. And, uh, uh, Robert Evans, William Castle, you know, was the person who bought the book and was like, I want to direct it. Robert Evans is like, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

I'd like to imagine if William Castle got to do this, if he had brought his own theater gimmicks and it would be that the popcorn has a chalky undertaste. You're like eating the popcorn. You're like, what's this? Oh my God, she's feeling it too. But the thing I remember is the chalky undertaste. The second thing I remember is that whole... The experience I had...

watching her going back to Dr. Charles Grodin, and it's spooling out in front of you where you're like, he's not believing her. She's looking crazy. Rosemary, come on, do better. We want you to do well here so you can get out of this situation. And then, and I love this in movies, Grona has a light in his eyes in a moment where you're like, He believes her. Yeah. Fuck. Yes. He believes her. She's going to get out of this. And then it, and again, it's from her point of view. You don't see like.

The doctor's walking down the hallway and entering her room. It's the horror, like the terror of she's in the bed. She's looking across the room. The door opens. And from across the room, the people like. walk in. It's so creepy. It's so good. But yeah, that like, I mean, I think in most movies when the person is close to getting somebody to help them. And then it gets blown.

like in Misery, where you're like, Farnsworth is going to come and save the day. Oh, yeah. To have somebody not come and save the day. That's another one of those. Yes. Characters, yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when that person right is off, then. Just on a storytelling level, it's like so... Where do you go? It's such a great move, yeah. Yeah, yeah. The... The...

woman on the sidewalk is very graphic. Oh God. Yeah. Um, gruesome. The, the, um, I love the anxiety dream. What was I going to say? There's like three or four scenes of people eating actual food. The liver. The liver is so disgusting. Yeah, and like cutting into uncooked. But I think the food gets progressively grosser as the movie goes. The first scene is with Hutch and they're eating nice food. Delicious looking whatever roast pheasant or something. And then it ends with her looking into...

The most truthful moment of this movie might be... She's eating something gross, looks in the reflection at herself eating something and gets disgusted with herself. That's an incredible shot. That's an incredible turning point. Also, whatever the feeling of... It's cool what this movie does. I mean, it's always cool when a movie doesn't spoon feed. but it does like let you feel smart. Yeah. It's like what a thriller kind of can do best. You're kind of hutch in this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And.

When stuff starts playing out, it's way more satisfying. You're like, I see what's happening here. But then the feminism in the movie.

I feel it too. And it's like, when guy comes home and he's like, look, I know we haven't, I haven't been there much. Let's have a baby. Yeah. And then he like, takes her hand and pulls her over and points at the two days on the calendar when they're going to have sex. And it's like, and then of course, when he sleeps with her and she wakes up and has scratches.

If the scratches weren't there, he might not have ever admitted that he raped her the night before. I know. That's the... And then... But he didn't. That's the crazy thing. The devil did. Yes. He's saying that he did so she'll believe him. Right. It's crazy. That's true. I was thinking maybe it was like an orgy thing, but it might have just been they're standing there with the devil. I think that's the case. And what's so sinister too is that he's already...

thought ahead and this movie's already thought so far ahead. Cause he's like, let's have a baby. Let's have three. Cause in his mind, I think he's thinking we have to give up this first baby. Right. So let's at least have. two on her own. He's already thought ahead. Yes, yes, yes. It's so gross and it's so effective. Right, the like, also the three of like Father, Son, and the Holy, like whatever the number three. Someone pointed out. This baby's going to be born in June of 66, 666. Oh, whoa.

Yeah, I did think it was interesting, like the near history of like a movie in 68, but they're looking at calendars that say like 65. Yeah, I know. I wonder why, because that's, I think that's just because the book. That's how literal this thing was translated. But the like, you know, in the same way of like what I was saying of like, there's all these like authentic.

slice of life moments they're like oh a relationship does have those that dynamic of like one wants to go to the party the other doesn't then it flips and the person you know like the terror of you know it's probably like what's great about all any like great horror movie where you just kind of go like this horrific thing is actually coming from a very real thing of like, not to make things like too dark or whatever, but just like,

Marital assault, marital rape is a horrific thing that happens in real life. And the genesis of this movie is like coming from the place of like, what if the person I'm most intimate with and care about, like. uh, violates. And it's either he literally violated her and raped her or, or violated her by sacrificing her to the devil to rape her. Yeah. So, and then, and doing it for, um,

All for personal gain. Well, this very like kind of conventional the aspirations of like, I want to be hot shit. Oh man, yeah.

I want to be rich and famous. Like that's why he's making those choices too. This movie really holds up to not scrutiny, but just like, uh, digging through it you know you just find all these little onion layers yeah and it's not even like they're like ingenious little things that are hidden there for you it just all works so simply and elegantly this movie it is so simple it's very elegant it's so elegant yeah i mean like the pink font

Yeah. The pink cursive font. It's like a very elegant movie. It's not trashy. Yeah. The, yeah.

Any other thoughts? No, that's pretty much all I got. Well, after you got a couple more notes, we can read the Xenomorph names and then give our ranking. Yeah. So Tannis root is completely made up. Yeah. The only other Tannis I know of is the map room of Tannis and Raiders of the Lost Ark. Do you think it's spelled bad in there? I love talk about cozy playing Scrabble on a rainy day, man. And then setting that up for use for the anagram too. So cool. So cool.

I liked how he comes in with a big box, a sick carton of cigarettes. I haven't seen a carton of cigarettes. My grandma used to have those cartons of cigarettes and cartons of like gum, like mint gum to keep her breath fresh. yes uh the um the I wondered what the different anagrams you could make from that. I know there's, you could use an anagram fighter. Yeah. Yeah. When he puts the book away, did you notice when he puts it up on the shelf?

Right under it is Sammy Davis Jr.'s Yes, I Can. No, really? Yeah. So I wondered if Sinatra ever did watch the movie, watch Rosemary's Baby, was like, that's my buddy Sammy's book. baby maybe she wasn't so bad after all um the oh another little part of like the weird when they're uh the dakota is like

There's ADR of the guy say when they, when Roman gets in the taxi, when they're going away, he's like, take us to Kennedy airport. Oh yeah. Like whatever this like sixties dead revolutionaries. Like. talk i mean it's named after jfk right so that must have been like pretty soon after yeah i mean this is just like five years after the assassination right but uh the um

the Using Time magazine, the April 1966 Is God Dead cover is like a real life thing. Is that real? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that it was in... It came out in April 66, but it's summer 66. Maybe an old time is still in the lady movie. Now, when she goes out into the phone booth and that guy who's like... blocking her and you start noticing him that's uh the producer william castle oh really yeah it's him doing a little cameo he's also in another richard silver uh he's in shampoo

he's the guy who Julie Christie says at the party, like, I want to suck his cock. She points. Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, number two favorite movie. I know you said that, but, uh, what's your first. But when William Castle's cameo is out by the phone booth, there's a theory that in the movie, The Howling. Roger Corman has a cameo and he's outside of a phone booth. Oh. And.

Joe Dante being like this guy who can like layer references on each other. People think that is like a reference to William Castle outside the phone booth in Rosemary's Baby. But what makes Joe Dante so cool is like he's not just whether you know it or you don't, you can appreciate it or not. But he adds this extra thing, which is Roger Corman is known for being really cheap.

So in The Howling, Roger Corbin puts his finger in the little coin return to the payphone. So it's like, yes, it's funny that I'm referencing William Castle, but I'm also referencing this cheapskate.

Rodan should bring back the must should have brought back the mustache. That's apparently in the book too that he has a mustache the second time and so they like a little blonde mustache and that they put it in this as well because he doesn't have it in the first scene. Because you're trying to show some passage of time, but also it's real that you're a doctor in the meantime. I know, suddenly. And Brantley's notes, it's that Richard Silbert again saw Grodin's audition.

for the graduate yeah and uh um and was like hey this guy's good you should cast him as the as the as the doctor here there's the the who's who of who was going to be in this Because it was Sharon Tate, Jane Fonda, Julie Christie, Robert Redford. Damn. Jack Nicholson, but I think was... Ultimately, Polanski thought he already looked a little too sinister. And Jane Fonda had to go do Barbarella. Damn, wow. And then Robert Evans, I think, suggested Mia Farrow.

And yeah, he would have known her from being on Peyton plays and stuff. But she's also the daughter of Hollywood royalty, right? Who's her? Her mom is a Marine. O'Hara? Is that right? I didn't know that. And then her dad is the director. Is it John Farrow? Oh. But then he died when she was like 13. Oh, man. which some people think that's like maybe why she, you know, she was 21 and Sinatra was 50. Just sort of like, yeah. Holy shit.

I just realized. And I think her dad was like a complicated guy. That makes all the like already patriarchal. Sinatra things just so much more oh my god I mean whatever Sinatra's story was at the time that like he's a guy who is king shit. Now it's the late sixties and then he's adrift and he like marries this like Mia Farrow, like hip.

girl on the like whatever he was going through the um you know again like what's amazing like the tonal control of this movie that could be romantic and scary and funny like after one of the more

harrowing scenes of the movie where they're a group of people are like, she's like, I want to go to the hospital. Let me go to the hospital. And they like hold her down and drug her. And she's screaming, somebody help me. Oh yeah. And then the next scene is like the funniest scene in the movie where the.

Biddy is sitting next to her reading readers digest with a magnified glass. It's just such a funny, like she's already got like magnified glass lenses. Yes. Yes. But also whatever the kind of like observation of like, there's some vanity there. She doesn't want to get.

you know so she's doing the thing and then rosemary wakes up and she's like that actress is amazing yeah yeah great actors all about um the Yeah, I think it's like incredible that this movie like it reaches its pitch like the most suspenseful part is. woman in her own apartment trying to sneak around to make sure that the people who live in her building can't find her. Yeah, it's crazy. It's like...

that it could be like, to your point, like so simple and elegant. And when she locks them out and then they just, the first thing you see is her turn around and then they just walk behind her. They tiptoe behind her and that through the doorway. Yeah.

Because she thinks she's safe, at least in her place. Yeah. With Guy locked out. In another movie, you would maybe have it end with this big spectacle where she runs out of the apartment and goes to a big... cathedral yeah and there's a big battle at the end between her and the people in the cathedral but then that would get away from what it's trying to say like by making it small and domestic

And you're running between two spaces, one that looks like modern and then to an apartment that's like falling apart. Like that says way more than any like big cathedral climax. I imagine though being in the theater when that.

shot happens where those two guys walk by in the background. Oh my God. It must have flipped. And that, I mean, when that party happens, it is kind of like when somebody tells like a sick joke or something. And you feel this kind of like hole throughout the, you know, in the same way that the movie is holding the cards close to the vest that they're not ever telling you like, these are devil people or they're not.

But it's like a joke where the movie is kind of like a little winky. It could be the devil. It could be in her mind. But the complete putting the pedal and going from like... 20 miles per hour to 90 when they stand up and all start going like, hail Satan. It's like, holy shit. Or is she just having her final delusion? Oh, without a doubt. It could still be that they're weirdos. Also, they stay so refined when she's standing there with a knife.

they're not even like nobody overreacts. One woman screams, I think, but otherwise it's, it's like more. evidence for the other side of like, wait, these people are just worried about this woman with a knife. She's hallucinating. She's seeing a say, hail Satan. She's seeing a bassinet that's not there. It's so good. And the movie is like, right, right, right.

That scene could also just be about the terror of like being embarrassing at a party with like respectable people. Like they're all looking at you and kind of like, what's going on? When you're pregnant, when you're feeling hormonal, when you're huge, uncomfortable. Loaded. All of it. Yeah. But, you know, with when they say, you know, like the hippies kind of went from being these gentle, cute things in our country to like a thread after.

manson yeah like this was obvious this was before manson but that like the contrast of Rosemary, she's not like a hippie in that she's wearing beads and tie-dye or anything, but she is like youth. That she walks into a party and the evil people are these people who are trying to... be like not high society but just like be conservative yeah yeah like

That is kind of like, those are the scary people. It's not like Charles Manson or they're scary too, but it's not hippies. Like you should be more scared of the people who are in power and kind of like. forcing ritual and traditions on you rather than keeping up appearance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what a great movie. So good. So good.

All right, let's read a couple of, not a couple. We've got a nice, healthy list before we read our rankings here. And hi, everybody on the live stream. Thanks for your great thoughts. Yeah. I could see Rosemary's baby being a little more disturbing than The Exorcist, Jeff. Sure, sure. Okay, come on over here. Okay, I'm going to come on over to read the names, y'all.

This is the first time I've seen your desk a whoople? That is so cool. Can you describe what this is, Matt, for our listeners? Well, this is my... I'm working on this corner desk, so... It has a standing option that is kind of built into it. This has been the hardest project of this whole place because it's got all these little secret hidden. Oh my God. You guys didn't see if a map pushed a button and it went.

And it came up. That's so cool. Okay. Okay. Going all the way back to June 3rd. Oh, look at this. Beautiful. Okay. Give a shout out to Elaine, my fiance, who's attending Columbia Climate School in New York City this fall. New York City, look out. Oh, Southern lawyers should let me. Oh, hello. I'm here to represent my climate. Client. Climate change.

Look at my sweet little cumulonimbus just climbing around the climate. He's not to be blamed. Your greenhouse gases are. This is an indictment of your society, Your Honor. And you... ladies and gentlemen in the jury, I rest my case. Oh, look at this. And he also threw in a picture of a beautiful Hammond and Leslie, Oregon. Look at that. That organ is cool. That's nice. Can you do an organ donation to me? I know. With that organ?

Hello, this is HR Giger giving a shout out to Grayson Kilmer. Grayson Kilmer. Who's part Robin's real name, part Batman's partial name. That's right. Okay. Oh, a shout out of either of us as Michael Myers. If you don't have a good Michael impression, I should also settle for a shout out from Jason. I love that. I'll do Michael. You do Jason. Here's my Michael. And I'll do Jason. That's to you, Greg Lowe. Greg Lowe! But I'll do it as what I think Jason's voice could be if he said it. Greg Lowe!

Thank you for your very nice comments in this, by the way. Thank you. All right. That's very kind stuff that Greg was saying. Oh, that one we did. Okay. Sorry for the pauses. I guess it's just a regular old shout out to Justin Fink. Justin Fink. Thank you, Justin. Oh, here's another one from Justin Fink. Is there anything different here? Okay. I think that's the same. Hi. Hi. It's me again. Hi again to me, HR Giger, giving a shout out to Mike Cordell.

I love you. I know that seems sudden, but okay. And all our love to you, Michael Cordell. Yes, hope you are doing okay. Best wishes to you, buddy. Yeah, okay. I'm trying to muster that voice. For Dr. Loomis. Yes. Mike Rhodes is pure evil. he has a doll's eyes like a shark I always get those two mixed up My friend Matt made a really funny observation, which is he watched Halloween for the first time. Oh, my God. And he was like, that's great. Love it. And then he said.

Do you think, and I've never heard this observation before. Do you think Dr. Loomis is so like frantic about finding Michael and getting him, like stopping him? Not because he has any concern. for the damage or the pain that Michael could bring to people. It's more, he's trying to like cover his ass. Like he has a job evaluation meeting next week.

You what? You let Michael escape? It makes so much sense now. When you watch that movie, it just seems like a guy who's trying to cover his ass. Also, when you really dig into that, okay, so it's not his direct responsibility that Michael escaped because he wasn't there, but- What didn't he do as a doctor? Because all he's been saying is Michael never spoke this whole time. But do you think Loomis is just like a deadbeat psychologist who went in?

Everybody thinks he goes into this room with Michaels and he just reads a magazine and never speaks to Michael. And Michael's the whole time going like, I really need some help. I really fucked up. I really need some help. That's so funny. A doctor's like, yeah, he never talks. It was real weird. But if he ever tells you that he did talk, don't listen to him because you know he's crazy. That'll be amazing. None of my patients talk.

All right. Thank you, Matt, for that observation. This is one for you, for Jamie Rogers. Jamie Rogers. Oh. Jamie Rogers and Butterball. the most nefarious members of Pinhead's court. Okay. A shout out from Scott. Wait. Climate School at Columbia? Two climate? Wait, is this the same person? No, no, no. I think it's a different person. Wait a minute. Oh, no, no, no. Scott. Okay. Okay. Scott, Scott, Scott. Oh, nice try, Scott. Nice try. We thought there was two guys who's...

loved ones were going to climate school. There's been a couple of double emails here because sometimes people send through the Patreon or through the email. If you're a baby xenomorph, you can just email us at withgorleyandrust at gmail.com. And if you do a double one like that, we have... to revoke your original. No, just kidding. All right. Xenomorph shout out to Jeff McDonald and Emily Baldoni.

Jeffrey McDonald and Emily Baldoni. Thank you so much. Oh, a shout out from a Red Squadron member or you must mean Brown Squadron or M. Hello. I want you to be so shouted out, so shouted out, like on the rooftops of Trafalgar Square, don't you know? We got two more. Great. My Michael Espinach or Espinach. Oh, move to Pasadena. Oh, and these messages are so nice. Yeah, they are. Thank you. And Long Lucerne. Oh, I read this. Oh, my God.

Currently lives in Belmont Heights, which where I've lived, went to LaSalle High School in Pasadena. Okay. We must've been in the same room together. My band was literally hosted residencies at Vine, which Talon played. The Federal Bar. Went to Joe Jost. Oh, the greatest Joe Jost. I think it's so old. It's a bar in Long Beach. I think it used to be a speakeasy because it opens up onto the sidewalk kind of thing. And he has his band Breather. Yes.

That's a cool name. B-R-E-A-T-H-E-R-R-R. Well, shout out to you. Yeah, shout out to Michael Espinach. And finally, Tyler Ramberg. Uh-oh, I'm back. Bookend. To close it out, I am like a bookend of a set of legal dictionaries up on the shelf. This is a big shout-out to my boy Tyler Ramberg, who's so... innocent if he's guilty of anything he's guilty of being innocent we love you Tyler Ramberg thank you everybody yeah thanks everybody

And thanks to everybody, the baby Zenos. And thanks y'all on the live screen for joining us. We love having you here. Everybody here. What a great crew. Paul. Yes. What are you going to give Rosemary's Bambino? Out of 666, I give it a 666, Matt. Oh, my God. But on a scale of 1 to 13, I give it a 13, baby. I do as well. I do as well. Double Triscodeca-phobias. Yeah. Uh, Umar will have to tell us what other movies have gotten the double 13, the exclusive club, not as exclusive.

As the 27 pointed when added together a score of Tinker Tailor, which still feels gamed, but it joins the exclusive club. We should someday do a... attorney bracket of the 1313s that'd be awesome that'd be tough let's do that okay we could do that and uh Matt, I just want to say it's always a joy getting to chat with you about life and movies. And I'm so grateful for all of our listeners and all of our trustees for joining us.

means a lot to us. So thank you guys so much. We got a great season coming up. Next up is the Omen. And then after this season is the dystopia season, all voted on by the trustees. So join us at Patreon if you can. All right. We'll talk to you next episode. Bye. Hail Satan. Hail Satan.

For more Gourley and Rust content, head over to patreon.com slash with Gourley and Rust to get episodes ad-free and a whole week early. Plus, monthly mailbag episodes and feature-length watch-along film commentaries of your favorite horror classics. That's Patreon. Thank you.

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