LONGLEGS

This holiday, Verizon is helping you bundle up incredible gifts and savings. You'll get the latest phone with a new line on MyPlan and a brand new smartwatch and tablet. No trade-in needed, even on our lowest price plan. That's two gifts for your family and one for you. Or two for you and one for someone else. Or three gifts for you and only you. Either way, you save big on three amazing gifts at Verizon. All on the best 5G network. Visit Verizon today.

Rankings based on Root Metrics Root Score Report dated 1-8-2025. Your results may vary. Service plan required for watch and tablet. Additional terms apply. The holidays are about family and quality time, right? But while we're carving roast beef, our dogs are stuck with dry kibble mystery meat. And yes, they notice. It's time to make the switch to Sundays. Sundays is clean, whole food-based food made for the dogs we love.

air-dried and made in a human-grade kitchen using the same ingredients and care you'd use to cook for yourself and your family. Every bite of sundaes is clean and made from real meat, fruits, and veggies with no kibble, no weird ingredients. and no fillers because your dog deserves food made with care, not in the interest of cost-cutting. And the best part? You just scoop and serve. No freezer, no thawing or prep, no mess. Just nutrient-rich, clean food that fuels

their happiest, healthiest days so you get more of them to share together. Sunday's holiday sale is going on right now. Go to sundaysfordogs.com slash ACAST50 and get 50% off your first order. Or you can use Use code ACAST50 at checkout. That's 50% off your first order at sundaysfordogs.com slash ACAST50. Don't miss out on Sunday's best sale of the year at sundaysfordogs.com slash ACAST50 or use code ACAST50 at checkout.

It's with Gourley and Rust. It's Paul Rust. It's Matt Gourley. And it's you, the listener, joining us on a thrill ride through all of the horror films of the 20th and 21st century. That's right. At an easy listening pace. Mm-hmm. Uh. And this is the last film of our Satanic Panic season. That's right. Matt, let me just say, Hail Satan. Hail Satan to you. Hail Saint Nick. Hail Saint Nick. Brilliant.

Just saw that yesterday. Okay. So Matt saw one battle after another yesterday. Yeah. Yes. Spoilers. People want to advance here, but. Some characters do say, hail Saint Nick. Did your ears burn, Matt, when you heard that? And they did for me. I was like, oh. Oh, so great. So great. My God. Yeah. So you liked it?

I loved it. I loved it too. I mean, everybody loves it. It's the best. And, you know, I'm always a little worried when I see a movie late that the hype is going to be too much. And I'll even admit going in, I was like, okay, this is good, but...

these are some, you know, bleak characters in my, am I, is it going to grab me? And then before I can even finish that thought, I'm getting drawn in. And then, you know, like it's just every time I think Paul Thomas Anderson is going to go a little too far. He doesn't. And he just keeps it so in the damn pocket. Yeah. It really is. It's like a master filmmaker. Don't you think it's the humanity? Yeah. Obviously, technically, he's like the man. Oh, yeah. But it's the heart.

That's like the extra ingredient that really goes a long way in all of his movies. And obviously the acting is superb. It's such a testament too, because I think I knew going in this and even when the movie started, this is a subject. like current day sociopolitical politics about this kind of thing and revolutionaries and stuff. It's a tricky thing. And I can't say like I'm default interested in that subject.

just because I would be, if this were like a 30 year old movie, but when it's happening at the time, I'm always a little wary of that. And man, it just, it just does such a good job. Such a good job. I think, right. Because it is. political or about all caps these times these times but also I think that it's not a I hope I'm using the word right it's not a polemic

It's not like things are just set up in order to score easy points against... It's probably a love for characters and the people that it... Keeps it from just being Oliver Stone. It's not Oliver Stone. It's not Oliver Stone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And characters are welcome. I think this was...

One battle after another was made for USA. That's right, yeah. Well, originally for WGN as broadcast television movie. Then I went to USA because characters were welcome. They apparently were not at WGN. It's also just so fun sitting... in a movie theater when you're watching like, um, a classic on spool before your eyes. It felt that way. Like, uh, one of the members of Daft Punk had a big, uh, like a rave over the weekend. And for a moment he just played like the,

I didn't watch it. Somebody put up a clip on the Paul Thomas Anderson Reddit, which I love. And somebody, he just took a moment, this Daft Punk guy, to play the score. for one battle after another. And just hearing it in a context that wasn't the movie, I was like, oh, that's a classic score. And the fact that stuff will feel... I mean, I felt this most the first time I saw, like, the master. Like, it feels like it comes from some ancient history of just, like...

And I think that's like why something can feel like classic. Sometimes it feels like a little bit like the Odyssey in a way. Yes. Also Star Wars.

Yeah. A desert setting where somebody is like... A guy in a robe. Yep, yep, yep. Gets forced out of his house, his little hermetic house. Yeah. Has to hit the road. Man, that resonated with me. Forced out of... my hermetic house that's the true nightmare it is it is forced out of my hermitage my tomb um you also should listen to the uh there's a dga podcast with uh Steven Spielberg interviewing Paul Thomas Anderson. And it is like the sweetest thing in the world. Like, uh, uh,

I'm not the first person to make this comparison, but it's like the Chris Farley show. Oh, yeah. Where it's like, do you remember the part with the tunnel? I like that part. It's just fantastic. And also just the details.

come out about how like that climax at the end with the cars which is just outstanding I mean like jaw dropping and the whole time I'm thinking this whatever I don't know what the lenses he uses to go over those little hills yeah But that's one of those things where you're like, how's that not quite been?

done before to to be used like as like a visual aesthetic but also to reveal information as you come up and down over hills we won't spoil oh yeah this is just like a visual perfect like choreography It just blew my mind. I mean, there was a couple unthought, like unprocessed, just whoa. Yeah. Like that I had a couple of just like, I'm not.

thinking of saying, whoa, it just like slips out of my mouth. Yeah. And I'll say again, I was going into this very aware that everybody's like, this is a masterpiece. And it wasn't me at all with my arms crossed going, oh, we'll see about that. I was just worried I wouldn't. Yeah. Feel that way. And I did. I did feel that way. Even after all.

All the hype, which now I don't want to double hype it for anyone who hasn't seen it. Just go in and see it. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you saw it. We were just talking before we started recording. You saw it at the Vista. At the Vista, yeah. I guess this is my first time and probably most people's first time seeing something in true Vista vision. I couldn't say that I noticed a full difference. I felt like the sound wasn't.

that great so I'm curious to see I know was it you or my friend Johnny someone was telling me the projector broke when they went to see it yeah well I this is I saw it, yes, and the film broke. That's right. I've seen it twice now at the Vista, and it's in VistaVision there, so that's why it's really great to see it. You know, I live about a mile or so away from the Vista. I can walk there. I go to many screenings there.

Matt, there are times where I could cry. I am so happy that that theater is like... I, you know, growing up in Iowa, there was like no repertory theaters. And then to go to a city that's filled, has many, but then the best is like near me. And I'm like. If I moved to, if I visited Los Angeles from Iowa and just spent a week.

The highlight of my week of visiting Los Angeles was going to see a repertory movie. So getting to have that, it makes me so happy. And I was like a real Swifty, Matt. Like I was like refreshing the webpage. when those tickets were coming out and i got the 10 a.m screening on the friday morning it came out

And I dropped my daughter off at school and zoomed over and got in line and waited in line. It was so exciting. And this isn't a, oh, my, I was so exciting. And it did it like it lived up to it. But yeah, about 40 minutes in. And I think this was initial problems with the Vista doing the projection. Because these cameras are refurbished and lent to the Vista by Giovanni Ribisi. Is that right? They filmed the...

Oh, the cameras, not the projectors? But the projectors have to, I think, and I'm a dummy with this stuff, but it seems like what puts a strain on the projectors initially before they figured out how to do it was that the... film runs the other way like on the other side and so i think it's just i it happened during a real change which i think is like when usually stuff goes afoul yeah because it runs horizontally yeah yeah so about 40 minutes in um

the film did break. And then there was like kind of a half hour where they were trying to get it back going and they couldn't. And then, uh, um, They ended up putting up a digital version, which was fine. But I did. You did notice the difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if anything, that was like the bonus. It was just going like, oh, I can see the difference. The person I was with.

I just went by myself. I was with strangers. And when it started back up again, this woman next to me was like, oh, you can tell the difference. And how so? How would you describe it? And I know we're here to discuss long legs. Yes. But this is... I will connect these two when we're done. Just interestingly enough, I wanted to bring up this movie to actually in reference to Long Lake. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The grain, baby. I could see the grain and it just, it looked like a photograph.

come to life. Yeah, you could definitely see the grain, but my picture was also very rattly at times, like shaky and not like in camera shaky. It was something, maybe the... projector was having issues. Cause like I said, the sound was kind of tinny and muffled a little of both and then a little rattly, but yeah, the sound for me was great. Uh, that blew me away. And then, uh,

Yeah. And then I went back like four days later to the second screen and the film ran great. It was awesome. Sitting in a full theater with, uh, Film fans and people laughing. I know. It's nice to go with that crowd was so nice to see with very obvious, like the guy sitting next to us, we were talking and just everybody's there to celebrate.

a masterwork yeah you don't get that when you you know necessarily when you go to the whatever the regal over at one paseo in pasadena that's true yeah and uh um when uh I went to the midnight screening and this can dovetail into long legs. When I went to the midnight screening of Psycho at the Vista, that was fun too, because it was half people who love Psycho.

And then the other half is just like movie mad kids going out to a midnight screening on a Friday night for any movie. And they hadn't seen Psycho before. So you're also getting to be with film fans, but then people who are just. Into it. Turned on by movies. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, real quick, you can find more with Gorley and Russ at patreon.com. Morley. Morley, Gorley. I used to have a student that, that.

consistently used the word morally in her papers and i i would inquire and say you know this this isn't a word and then they continued to use it like meaning i think they meant like more over or more so yeah like Was her dad Morley Safer? Yes, it was Vanessa Safer. Anyway, this is Morley and Russ, but you can go to patreon.com slash with Gourley and Russ and get...

feature-length film commentaries, mailbag episodes, tournament cozy episodes. We just did a commentary that'll be coming out before this. No. It comes out tomorrow when we're recording this. Yeah. And it's Nightmare on Elm Street 4. Which did you see was playing at the Vista and was sold out? Yes. And you were just saying you wanted to see the theaters because of the different version. I know, I know, I know. Yeah, I guess I won't be able to see it. I'll have to get reports.

And if you subscribe on Patreon at the Baby Xenomorph level, you can watch a live stream. We got some friends here joining us. Hi, everybody. Hi, everybody. And I have some news on that front. I've plotted out. the cameras to get because I'm getting to the point like I'm determined to finish this studio basically by the end of the year and that includes the tech so I've I've found the cameras

I'm going to wait till the Black Friday sale. Sure. But I'm ready to pop on those things. And then the quality, the audio quality, hopefully. you know, with some troubleshooting should be better in the near future. Very cool. But join us there. And you also, if you're a baby xenomorph, get your name read out, which we'll do at the end of this episode. We got a lot to cover this episode.

But how I want to tie in One Battle After Another to Long Legs is I'm glad we talked about One Battle After Another because I really loved it and I wanted to send a little love because I feel like... I didn't love long legs. And I think part of it may have been. seeing both of them so close to each other, it really elucidated the differences to me. And not because one's a horror and one's like a political comedy thriller.

there was something about it. And also, I also watched A House of Dynamite on Netflix. So I watched Long Legs, then One Battle After Another, then A House of Dynamite. In that order? Yeah. And it just... it probably wasn't fair to these other two movies. Now, House of Dynamite, I won't do this with long legs because there's stuff to appreciate and it's an interesting thing. There's lots to talk about, but House of Dynamite infuriated me.

Really? I really disliked it. Yeah. The House of Dynamite was your head watching it. It was your heart. It was a dud. Really? What did you like about it? Well, first of all, this thing's tailor-made for me. It's a... crisis situation kind of bubble episode in the style of like some classic disaster films where you're meeting people throughout the world, all coming together. But man, it, it, to me.

Some people are probably not going to have this problem, but I won't spoil anything. It's just, it lost it. If you know what I mean. It lost it. Like the TV show lost. Yes. It just, I won't say anything more, but it felt lazy. And it felt like it ducked a lot of things it was trying to get important about. And Hurley's in it, right? Yeah. And it pissed me off. And I really was looking forward to that.

Don't waste your time. Watch Failsafe, which is incredible and is basically, this movie is like a really inferior remake of Failsafe. Oh, interesting. Okay. Okay. Sorry. Sorry to get that negativity out. No. So on a graph. of your likes, it would be like, um, long legs at like 40% of enjoyment spiking to a hundred percent of enjoyment. And then what down to 30, 20 for house of dynamite. Feel free to. mess with those numbers. Okay, yeah. I'd put House of Dynamite at 10. Okay. I'd put...

Long legs, yeah, 35 maybe. Okay, okay. And 100. So we go from a 35 to 100 to 10. Now, if that was just a heart rate. you die. You die. Your heart would explode. Yeah. Yeah. But when it comes to movie enjoyment, then you really die. Yeah. The movies die. Yeah. Now, now I want to hear what you thought of it too. Yeah. But I just want to say like,

I think I set myself up for success with long legs. It was Friday night. Our daughter was asleep. That's the best conditions to watch a movie. Yeah. Yeah. I know if in your good day, good movie, bad day, bad movie paradigm, what would you call it? A diagram? Model. Model. Yeah. Friday night, end of the week after a kid's asleep.

That's when a movie is going to most shine. Exactly. That's when you're giving a movie its best opportunity to blow you away. And so I'll shut up after this on this note. Don't shut up. I don't want to say that I thought this movie was bad. I just felt... disappointed by it. And I didn't go in with any real expectations. I just felt like it was a lot of substance. I mean, a lot of style over substance and a confused movie.

that i really really really wanted to like but didn't didn't work for me now so so enough of that what where do you come down on uh i really liked it okay but we're gonna real siskel and ebert no no no no i

The thing you just said, which was like, there's so much in there that I would love. Yeah. And the fact that I wasn't Gaga over it says a lot. And I did think like halfway into the movie, I was like. I like the material and the ideas, but in two ways, something is... a couple degrees away from how I like it. And I can't fault the movie for making the choices of the degrees they set it at. It's just not to my liking. And those two things were.

You said it, the style. Which I liked the style. Yeah, particularly like the framing style. I like the filmmaking. Yeah. Technically, I mean. Yeah. There was times where I was just like, you know. I admire and respect anybody who goes for style. That's like the coolest thing in the world. So no hate on that. It just wasn't to my liking with like, you know, the stuff of like the.

framing where it would be like somebody's head kind of on the left. Oh yeah. And then a big wide open space on the other end. And it gets kind of like smeary and like out of focus. And those sort of like lockdown, no handheld, kind of like all like maybe even post-production stabilized shots and like those post-production kind of like in effects.

zoom-ins like that stuff it's just not my favorite and sometimes it can almost be like like disorienting like where like I'm I feel like I'm looking at an eye test that's kind of like out of focus a little bit like my eyes i don't have my glasses on or something oh yeah by the end it can kind of start like wearing me down and you know i don't think it's wrong to make the comparison to these movies because

in a cool way they're like referencing and having fun with some of the best movies in the world like yeah i think that was part of the problem for me yeah and like a little too much and i just that All this style, and horror movies are often style over substance, and that can work very well in certain films. But this one, I think, is asking you to take it a lot more seriously. Yes. And I didn't...

like it's, it's serious themes and tones didn't feel right to me. Well, silence of the lambs and seven each like feel like you don't in this, they're stylish movies to be sure. Yeah. We don't feel. the hand of anybody really the craft is like invisible to the point where like whatever it's a very simple thing to say I feel dumb saying it but it's like

You know, when it becomes invisible, you just kind of enter into the world more easily. Exactly. And so with this, I was just like, there were times where I was like, oh, I could have access into this world and this story if they weren't.

doing so many symmetrical shots of people in the center and kind of these like if it just felt a lot it didn't sometimes feel alive so it being a degree off in like the stylistic choices that was a for me and then the other thing that was just like it's just not my preference and because of that it's like a few degrees off from what I would like Like the characterizations just. I'm with you on this. It missed me too. Yeah. I couldn't get like.

I was saying humanity earlier. I just couldn't like find like the hook of like humanity. And maybe it's just like the performances or something, no hate on the actors or anything. It was just like, there was something that was like. And hey, I like movies that keep me at arm's length. It doesn't have to ingratiate, but there was just something about the characterizations where I couldn't be like, oh, this is...

Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs. This is Brad Pitt in Seven. There was some sort of inhuman... characterization that just, it was a few degrees off and it kept me fully like going Gaga. And I wanted to go. I did too. And for me, for Micah Monroe, who I always really like. She's doing something with her character here that I think is verging on the suggestion of her either...

I mean, obviously it's within the story that she's got some kind of extrasensory perception, but I also think she's affecting a sort of spectrum sort of thing to her character. Yeah, she's Sheldon. Yeah, basically. No hate on the actors. But it was an affectation that felt like I could see the wheels of acting turning instead of seeing a character. And then with Nicolas Cage.

I don't know that I had any issue with his characterization. He always swings for the bleachers. Is that what you call it? The fences? The fences, yeah. I think... Beyond the fences are the bleachers. Yeah. Yeah. Swinging for the. Yeah. For the next stadium over. The other stadium on the other side of town. God love him. Of course. He's a gift to all of us. And that would have worked for me, but not coupled with.

The makeup. And this was something just in another comparison with One Battle After Another that's minor. I won't say who or what, but there's some face makeup in One Battle After Another. You know what I'm talking about? Oh, yes. That is so amazing. First of all, just in its technical aspects, but the effect of it is so amazing where this one took me out completely. And I even wondered if that's why.

Perkins at times shot him from like the nose down and clipped his head out of frame. I thought that too. The makeup just wasn't, it just was. I, all I could think is prosthetics and artificiality. And to the point where I even said that and Amanda goes, well, but he's supposed to be wearing makeup, the character. And I was like, I don't think the character is wearing.

prosthetics, like appliances. Maybe he's put white on, but he's not right. The character is not wearing effects makeup. Yeah. I, I, I, that, yes, that's how much she thought there. Like I did think. He's making himself up this way, the character. But the specific thing you're saying of appliances, I don't think. No. And the appliances are sort of the thing that.

can get a little yeah it just didn't move right and it just felt like I could kind of feel Nicolas Cage making all this happen sure coming in and going like Even in our notes by the wonderful Brantley Palmer, basically Osgood Perkins was quoted as saying,

He would come in and do his thing, and I would say, yes, more of that, or let's walk that back. But it was his thing he brought, and I didn't tell him what to do. And I think that's what every filmmaker knows now.

what they're getting with Nicolas Cage. And it's why Nicolas Cage probably doesn't work with auteur directors as much anymore, or established directors. He seems to only work with younger independent filmmakers now because I think he wants to, and I understand it, he wants to come in and do his thing. but that's a, that's a, can be a mixed bag, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the, um,

Yeah, the way Osgood Perkins put it. Thank you, Brantley Palmer, for your wonderful notes. Also available on the Patreon. And his notes actually make me like this movie a little bit more because reading some things I understood. the theme better which I have to say may have been my fault but also is part of the responsibility of the movie that that did not sink in with me until after reading some stuff about it after but I could take responsibility

No, no, no. I hear you. Yes. Brantley's exquisite notes, but that his the way he put it, the Osgood Perkins was. Nicholas Cage does his homework, and then he goes to the front of the classroom. It's not even homework. He does his class project. Yes, yes, yes, yes. He rehearsed it over the weekend. Yeah. He's coming in and doing his show and tell.

And then he said he kind of like curates it. He picks the and with the thing, too, it's interesting what you're saying about the makeup and appliances and stuff, because I noticed. his long legs, his hands weren't white or crusty or crunchy. And, um, I guess it can work either way, which is like,

long legs, focuses on his face, and doesn't do his hands. But when I first saw it, I was kind of like, that seems... a mistake in the movie yeah that like i want to see him have kind of like weird white crusty hands yeah uh because if they're not explaining anything right is that meant to be a signifier that he is just wearing face makeup Or is it just a mistake? Yes. It's interesting. And we'll read to your point about what the movie was about, but maybe wasn't entirely clear.

Let's see here. Perkins has this from Brantley's notes. Perkins has made no secret of the sustained influence his late parents continue to exert over his life and career. Just so you guys know. Osgood Perkins is the son of Anthony Perkins, who died on September 12th, 1992, of AIDS-related causes. And his mother was fashion model Barry Berenson, who was a passenger on American Airlines Flight 11.

and was killed in the September 11th. This is insane. I mean, it's so tragic. Almost nine years to the day that his dad passed away. It's insane. Yeah, and before I knew Osgood Perkins, I just knew... Anthony Perkins died of AIDS-related causes, and his wife died in 9-11. I remember thinking. I didn't know this. Oh, those children, like.

or child like whoever they are I didn't know I was like wow it's crazy you have to the loss of your parents are like I don't want to say this flippantly are like tied to each decade's respective like heaviness tragedies. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like the weight that those each decade carries is kind of based on AIDS related deaths. Mid 80s to early 90s. And then the oddies, yeah, it was all 9-11. That's crazy. I can't even fathom that. So...

Yeah, so since becoming a father himself, Perkins had grown fascinated by the complexity of the relationships between parents and children. the decisions parents make and the compromises they conceal to protect their children from the truth of their circumstances. Perkins says, I have three kids, all very different people, very different ages. And so it's something that I really think about.

A lot, Long Legs, really at its core, is a parenting movie. It's a movie that asks the question, is it right or is it wrong to do this or that as a parent? To that, Birkin says he feels what he writes must have truth in it. And more and more, he comes back to his folks.

how they lived, the family mythology, and how Ruth Harker in the film has a story that she hides behind and becomes the sort of cover story mantra that she espouses to her daughter is reminiscent of his mother and the story she'd say about... the family. Last thing, Perkins, a lot of what I do and what I think about is my parents, their lives and their deaths, their presences and their absences. And it's interesting to note that

Nicolas Cage also based at least the vocal characterization off of his mother who suffered severe mental illness. Yeah. Experienced electric shocks and things like that. It's very mother-based. And then the actor. what's the actor's name, whose parent, they had parents, and it was a mother's, let me get this right, because I want to. this character's oh alicia witt oh yeah right her parents uh in late 2021 her parents were found dead of suspected cold exposure

They had refused to let their daughter help them later in their life. She wasn't allowed inside their home for a decade. A few months later, Whit revealed she had also been dealing with a breast cancer diagnosis and treatment that involved chemotherapy and a mastectomy. This is Ruth Harker who played the mother. This is...

Alicia Witt who played Ruth Harker, the mother. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, it seemed like in what's cool about movies, you know, you get a group of people and you kind of form a consciousness together. Like they're all. individually seem to be thinking about uh their specifically their parents but their mothers and the sort of like alternate world or version of life that if your parents give that to you it doesn't matter if it's real or not it's like oh well you're

I'm entering the world that you've created for me. So that's what Long Lake seems to be about. I can't tell if this movie, if I was confused by this movie or this movie is confused. You know what I mean? Because. even perkins in the research says that the movie kind of starts at the one hour and 22 minute mark when you realize

So you're not having as less like an ending twist reveal of the mother doing all this. It's more, it did feel like that's when the movie kind of started. And so it's confused to have this like iconic new horror. killer in Longlegs, who as a character is very confused because why is he called Longlegs? I know this is like a nitpick. Why is he called Longlegs?

And then they call him the doll maker. Just call the guy, the doll maker where there's no illusion. I'm not saying I need an explanation for why he's called long legs. It just muddles it when you've got him later being revealed as the doll maker, the doll maker, which.

in itself is a little bit more evocative and and connected to what's going on in the story yeah yes and and when you add the makeup on it and when you add the unavoidable um like permeation of Nicolas Cage's personality which is why you love him and why you have him but it comes at a cost it deflects the movie from where I think it's meant to be going so I actually think Nicolas Cage was a disservice or I thought it would be a

lot scarier if he wasn't in makeup and he was just doing an acting job and you could see his face and his cheeks and his micro expressions move in reality as opposed to like a stiff latex rubber. And that's why I don't dislike this movie. I just felt like, oh, there's a really, there's really something here to like. And I was kind of like really rooting for it. And this just makes me, I know this makes me sound like I feel.

kind of condescending saying this but it wasn't that I just I wanted it to be good and it just kept kind of yanking me out yeah the Nicolas Cage performance is like interesting because it's like I wish We had more actors like him who like probably what excited people about Robert De Niro when he first hit the scene, which is like, ooh, his character is...

the movie like is the event like you see like how an actor like created something and presents it to you and and it's like its own little art piece or something um but And a character that's like cuckoo crazy like Longlegs is. Like to cast Nicolette. If you cast Nicolas Cage, then it's going to be more interesting if it's what you're saying. It's like small and subdued because then the surprise is like, ooh, Nicolas Cage.

wasn't swinging for the stadium across town. He did this other thing that's kind of weird. Or you cast like Mark Rylance or something. Oh man, that would have been amazing. Somebody who doesn't swing for the fences. And then you go and you see this kind of like wacky, wackadoodle performance. You're like, holy shit, I didn't know.

It just seems a little too like, I don't like this expression because I think it limits artists, but like the hat on a hat thing. It's just like, oh, it's already weird to have Nicolas Cage. Longlegs is already a weird character. This is a weird movie. It's just, it's a... It's like having a hot topic next to a Spencer's. Yeah. Or like how Pizza Hut and Carl's Jr. or whatever together, they're in the same store. Pizza Hut and KOC. It's like, actually, just keep them separate. KOC?

Chicken smells better when it's not next to the smell of pepperoni pizza. Yeah. It also maybe telegraphs a little too much the supernatural. It would be more effective if you just felt like this was a man. But never did I feel, and I didn't... know that this was going where it was going. Never did I feel like this is just a man showing up. I'm like, is this a vision, a ghost, a demon? What is this guy? He's too, and maybe he is.

It wasn't explained. Yeah. But I wish they would have kept it more grounded. Yeah. I am. You know, I love the ghoul from a sinister. Yeah.

And so, you know, it's not fair to compare other people to Bagul. Bagul has his own power. I mean, you can't compare anyone to Bagul. But I was like the... twist uh of that the accomplice is the main character's mom and she's the one who's helping long legs with his killings um that's the choice the movie made and it's a fine explanation it didn't like I didn't hate it but like it sort of like narrowed the scariness and the power of long legs

Because I like the thought. I mean, this is a different movie, so shame on me. But it's just like long. I like thinking of long legs as sort of like this ancient force beyond space, beyond time. And his powers are so great that he can like... like a ringworm, like get into a family's brain and make them like kill themselves and kill each other.

completely but like Hannibal Lecter could like how he can just like make a suggestion that like screws you up so much you end up like your life falls apart but that's what's so confused about this movie is because it's not him it's kind of the devil, but no, it's also the devil through these dolls, but then it's also the accomplice. Yes. It's just a lot of pieces that don't like fit well. Right, right. If it wasn't the accomplice and it was just like this guy.

it'd just be scarier. Like this guy somehow can tap into some realm of voodoo with these dolls that is real in this world. I mean, the thing that's most. what the movie thinks is the most real in all of this, it seems to be is the main character's psychic powers. Yeah. And code breaking skills where no one else has been able to break it. Yeah. And then that become kind of narrows the scariness too, because it goes like you go.

okay so this girl who was part of this to bring it all back to just like long legs met this girl's mom and so the story began yeah limits like the ancestral horror that like feels more powerful but then also then to have her be a psychic she just so happens to be psychic and goes in the FBI to investigate long legs, that also narrows the like, again, it's a different movie, but if it was just like...

An FBI agent who doesn't have psychic powers. Right. Or a woman who's not an FBI agent and has psychic powers. It was just like... It made the story too easy. It's too many ideas. A reading in the research too, that Perkins was fascinated by the fact that when JonBenet Ramsey was murdered, her parents prior to that had bought her a doll of herself, a life-size doll that would wear her pageant dresses. And that doll was...

15 feet from where she was murdered. And that is just given as a Christmas gift. Yeah. That is a harrowing idea and image. And I could totally see how compelling that is for filmmaking. But when you're kind of like, Oh, I could also put this in, but then. Then there's this psychic FBI and the mom who's kind of a nun. That imagery is kind of cool. And then you've got the devil, which in itself is a cool image too. But then Nicholas Cajun comes in and makes this other iconic thing.

What if it was just Nicolas Cage is this timeless demon. There's no dolls. And he needs to find an accomplice throughout time to do these things. And he uses the mother to save her daughter, who's not psychic. And she goes into these houses and possesses. possesses them and does these things. And the fact that it was the same mom every time it was the accomplice is the thing that like, I have a hard time. Yeah. Yeah. It would be more like, it would be scarier if long legs.

finds a vulnerable person each time and gets them to do the killing murder. Even someone from within the family. And it's not just the dad that kills everybody. It's the kid or it's something. And that's long legs power is they get to possess someone to kill a family. Yes.

Why is the devil killing these families? Is there, was that stated? Well, when I said that the psychic powers seem to be the thing that the movie most believed, actually, you can't argue the... There's plot points that happen because she has psychic powers. But it doesn't seem like... He has really... Thinking about it later, I was like, I don't know if the power of Satan is an actual force in this movie. It's like Nicolas Cage.

yes, worship Satan. And that's some of my favorite stuff of like, yeah, there's some, we should talk about some stuff that I like too. Yeah. Like the FBI person saying like, I mean, he has the freedom and the right to worship Satan, so we can't stop him for that. That was awesome. And when they're looking at his writings, they're like...

Clearly this was a man who was obsessed. Like that stuff was great. And then the sign offs of like hail Satan and stuff. I loved all that. But like, um, which is such a nod to, you know. like the rosemary's baby yes thing yeah um but later in retrospect i was like did he just he was a guy who was gonna kill no matter what or had a bloodlust and worshiping satan like fit into his like freaky vibes yeah but like i didn't she has like visions of well i guess he has some

power that the doll does. Satan's working through the doll. Yeah. So he's facilitating this, making the doll. It's like he's Satan's lackey and doll maker. Another reason to just call him the doll maker. It's maybe a better name anyway. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, and Satan needs the doll to get into that. It seems like Satan's got a lot of limitations. Yes.

Yes. But why is he killing these families in particular? I don't know. Just because he's Satan. Yeah. He likes evil and he likes it when people do. He likes true crime documentaries about families killing each other. Yeah. And this, you know, I said that she has like Sheldon vibes, which is like a CBS sitcom.

I really like this movie. So I don't mean to like be snotty because this is probably like the snottiest thing I'll say, which is like, if it didn't have those like elevated horror trappings. But admittedly, I'm a little tired. I would love to see a handheld camera every once in a while in a horror movie now. Just like something that feels alive, not this kind of like dollhouse.

Wes Anderson. Post Wes Anderson, post hereditary. Yeah. That like, if it wasn't shot like that, this would just be like. A primetime CBS procedural cop show that your parents like to watch, which is like the FBI agent with psychic powers. Like that is a sitcom. So it's like CBS is primetime lineup is like. Do you like CSI? What if Sheldon...

Was a detective for CSI. It's funny you should say that. I was looking at reviews of A House of Dynamite on Letterboxd and someone wrote Fridays, 9 p.m., 8 central on CBS. Interesting. And that's what it... It feels like an episode of 24. And because of that, that's why sometimes the style stuff did feel like you sort of know that this is a little... CBS procedural or a TNT show like Medium or something. Yeah, Bones. Or no, The Mentalist. Yes, yes. So if we put it in the elevated horror.

it won't seem like the flowers are cbs you know like that that's like why some of this stuff just like wasn't uh um it now look i There were many moments in the movie where I was like, there was suspense. And I was like creeped out and I'm like, it's scared. Yeah. There were, it had nice moments. Yeah. And as far as, you know. That's what you hope for with a horror movie. I did go out of there and be like, oh, there were a few moments that were genuinely...

Creepy and scary. So I got what I wanted. But that's why I kind of wish this was just all style over substance and a little bit more shallow and genre because it does feel like not only is it asking you. to really take this very seriously, but paying homage to film so much to the point of maybe not theft, but like borrow leaning too heavily on them, I think, and not.

If you're going to reference them that heavily, it kind of shows that you're not at that level. Yeah. So it was kind of like doing it a bit of a disservice. I know the... That Osgood Perkins quote that was in the notes, I really liked, which was like, he's like, oh, it's a pop horror movie. It's like the first half hour is Sinal to the Lambs or the first part. The second part is seven.

And that's like a fun movie. Like if it was just kind of all pop, that would be right on. And like, I did think it was cool that it's like. Seven is definitely now its own thing. But when seven came out, it was in the shadow of Silence of the Lambs. Like they one clearly influenced the other. But then it's like one of those things where like. a band might be influenced by the Beatles, but then whatever their influence meant for them means now, whatever, let's say like,

Squeeze is inspired by the Beatles. But then some band is inspired more by Squeeze and they sound more like Squeeze than Squeeze sounds like the Beatles or something. It's cool now, like, oh, with 30 years out, you can like reference each in their own way, even though one seemed like to reference the other. But like, I thought it would be. more fun. If you just kind of embraced, like you let go of the elevated horror stuff and you're just like, I'm going to make something in the mode of.

a nineties. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I gotta say it's really exciting to be a movie goer in the 2020s where people who grew up and were influenced. by 90s movies and the 90s was so much of like, what if we took this component of this movie and matched it with the component of this movie and a new thing came about? Now that those movies...

are components for 2020s movies. I mean, we could have a separate episode talking about, but just in the last week, for the first time, it took me too long. I saw Weapons. Oh, what'd you think? It blew me away. I loved it. I loved it. That, I think that's another thing is having on the heels of weapons, seeing that you can have fun and-

be really relevant where this one felt like it was striving for that same thing and just didn't connect for me. And that's maybe my, what you were talking about seeing a movie. around the other movie and it kind of like, cause I saw weapons beforehand. I wish we would have put weapons in this place. Yeah. For this podcast. Yeah. I mean, uh, with the nineties stuff, like. that blew me away was just like, Oh, somehow weapons magnificently like pulls off being, uh, Magnolia.

And Twin Peaks. And like Gone Girl. And like there's three. They're all like. And kind of long legs. Yes. Not to spoil anything, but when you meet the it character. Yeah. There's a fantastic element to them. But this one to me works because it's... Yeah, they're both kabukied in a way. Like their faces are like masks that they put on themselves. Yes. That's a good way to put it. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Like...

Weapons is like the great example of taking pop movies from pop culture that we love and they're not recreating it. It's like pushing it forward. by like adding them up and maybe it was just like to combine Silence of the Lambs with seven isn't enough of a jump from A to F. No, it really isn't. It's just kind of going like A to C. It's kind of like A to A in a way. Yes, yes.

Big moments deserve less stress and more confidence. When ED shows up in the bedroom, HIMSS helps you keep your cool and focus on what matters most. The moment, not the worry. Through HIMSS, you can access personalized prescription treatment options for ED, like hard mints and SexRx. Plus...

Climax control if prescribed. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself. HIMSS brings expert care straight to you with 100% online access to personalized treatment plans that put your goals first. Think of HIMSS as your digital front door. that gets you back to your old self with simple 100% online access to trusted treatments for ED and more.

all in one place. To get simple online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more, visit hymns.com slash rust. That's hymns.com slash rust for your free online visit.

Hims.com slash rust. Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan. Featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions, and important safety information.

This holiday, Verizon is helping you bundle up incredible gifts and savings. You'll get the latest phone with a new line on MyPlan, and a brand new smartwatch and tablet. No trade in needed, even on our lowest price plan. That's two gifts for your family and one for you. Or two for you and one for someone else. Or three gifts for you and only you. Either way, you save big on three amazing gifts at Verizon. All on the best 5G network. Visit Verizon today.

Did I talk too much? Why can't I just let it go? It was stinking so much. Thank you so much. Take a breath. You're not alone. Let's talk about what's going on. Counseling helps you sort through the noise with qualified professionals and online therapy makes it convenient. Let life feel better.

A couple of things I really liked about the movie. Yes. There was something that I thought was outstanding in the movie. And it was just, I wouldn't even know if you call it a jump scare, but when the FBI agent drops her off at her mom's house and you're in the car. and you see the mother out of focus.

And maybe you're not meant to see her till she moves. I already had seen her, but it was no less scary. And then she moves and comes around was such a cool shot. So great. Then cut to the wide of her with the shotgun, which was just as a. effective and really evocative of.

godfather 2 yeah yeah yeah and maybe even purposefully so i don't know but it worked and just like a nun with a shotgun at a wide yes and we've always said like guns in horror movies aren't scary right this time it really worked yeah yeah really worked for me there's something about her with a shotgun that was because because you know she's like

if not possessed, doing the devil's work, even reluctantly. But she's so twisted and scary at that point. It reminded me of that little thing in Exorcist 3. And it also reminded me of Amityville 2. If you're going to use a gun in a horror movie, make it a shotgun. It's way more gory. Yes, yeah, yeah. The image that...

really knocked me out. And I was like, I don't know if I've ever seen, I mean, home invasions are like some of the scariest things you can put in a movie. It's the scariest thing in life. And I had never seen. a home invasion sequence do this which is stepping out of the house being out of the house looking in

And seeing the home invader walk through the house as you look through the window. That was like amazing. That was great. And just casually. Yes, yes, yes. And this is a cliche, but it was like worth the price of admission. I'm glad I saw long legs because of that. I was like, I've never, that was so scary. While we're mentioning long legs, I'll admit my completely stupid, dumb.

I knew that this movie had some sort of like twist or it went beyond the realm of like. real life into the supernatural. I knew something like that too, only because of how much it's been talked about. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I, up until like. The last five minutes of the movie, I finally had to like let go of this notion. I was hoping like Nicholas probably speaks to like the ancestral thing that I can't let go of.

I thought there was going to be a reveal that he's like some sort of Lovecraftian creature. With, this is where I dub. With actual long legs. Like I was hoping that like she walks into his den and then he's like an octopus. He's just got these like weird, you're like, holy shit. I was keeping them at the level of Buffalo Bill this whole time, but it goes beyond that. Or John Doe from Seven.

That's where it's going to up the thing. But he's neither. It's just so soundly in the middle in an unsatisfying way. So just the title, I guess, is cool. Why is he called Long Legs? I don't need... This movie isn't... kubrickian enough for me to want ambiguity like intentional intellectual ambiguity it's a movie that kind of in its form should have some answers because it's not

Asking the big questions. Now, as far as Longwigs himself goes, it did feel like this is a thing I loved about the movie. We'll put it in the column of good stuff. In a sea of serial killers in movies, I did like... I hadn't really seen the character who's like... Like... inspired by like glam rock like that was cool like i was like yeah oh to make him sort of like an incel but like an incel from the mid 70s he like never moved out of his

mom's basement. Right. And still has his like T-Rex posters up. And when he, you see guys like this in Los Angeles. Yes. You see him at the Vista. I'll tell you that much. Hair metal dudes. Glam dudes who just couldn't let it go in the mid to late 90s and just were like, no, this is my look. I'm keeping up. There was something. in nicholas cage's characterization of that that i really liked which was like it was sad it's kind of this guy who's like thinks he's he's um the lead singer of like

Def Leppard or something. Something, yeah. And then is like Slade. Yeah. And that made like all the hail Satan stuff like work. Cause it was like, well, this is a guy who like, like docked. I kind of think they should have leaned more into that. Cause even that wasn't like, I have to say that I didn't like.

fully ring for me no he should have been like a what is it a hesher is that what those guys are called yeah yeah yeah like the guy who's wearing denim with the um patches yeah patches embroidered patches and stuff like

That would kind of give him like a... Well, a real satanic panic. A verisimilitude that would be real. You're like, oh, this guy got into the... to satan because he liked the music but then at some point the switch flipped and he was like no i'm into satan more than the docket yeah plus i also make dolls and it just yeah it's all yeah yeah and the the The doll could have just been the thing. Like a guy who makes dolls and the doll's like...

freak out the family. Yeah. Although that would have been leaning so hard into horror cliche as well, like into the Annabelle territory. Yes. So yeah, I, God, I just want to, I want to like this movie more. Another thing I did love was the, and it's all style, but the shot, the upside down shot, which didn't realize reading Brantley's research was.

Originally, Michael Moreau's character was facing, I think, to the right, and he wanted her to face to the left to mirror the image from the shot when she was little. But to do that, he had to flip the film, which meant when the camera rotated... which it originally, she crawls on the floor and it just followed her right side up. But flipping it made that go upside down, which worked for me. I really liked that moment. That was cool. I love that. Yeah. And to know the...

the backstory of it was pretty like the production of how it came about was really cool. Um, the, um, you know, when you brought up in comparison to one battle after another, um, I thought you were also going to say sort of like,

you know, you were saying you went in with a little bit of trepidation of like, has this movie been too overhyped? Yeah. That I mentioned this in the previous episode. That was my experience with like a long legs. was hearing all this like anticipation for it. It came out and then if I went to like talking to friends or I go to a party and you overhear people saying like they saw long legs.

they would usually go, oh, wasn't that scary? Because the marketing was pretty revolutionary. Yeah, that this is going to make you go insane if you watch this movie. And the takeaway I had from it was just like, okay, it's not as good as they were making it. People's impressions are that it's not as good as the hype was saying. So as a comparison, you know, with that, but I thought that the Brantley's notes on the marketing, I'll just read it real quick because it was.

it seemed to be like when this movie is talked about in history, it seems to be what it'll be. The marketing was the real success, I think. Yeah. And that's like why then I'm at a party.

two weeks after the movie comes out and people are like it's not as good as the marketing was saying so there is some sort of like uh cost benefit to like hype you know if if before a first date you're saying the person like this first date is gonna blow your mind like the person's uh they want lobster man uh okay

So Neon, this is from the notes, Neon executed a comprehensive and quote-unquote stunt-driven marketing campaign for the film. Instead of sending the film to festivals and building buzz from there a la Immaculate, a previous Neon horror film, they attached the trailer to almost... every theatrical horror film since January of 2024, giving it a six-month lead of constantly being in horror viewers' minds. Wow.

They also posted 11 clips videos on a clip slash videos on YouTube ahead of release. Were they showing Nicolas Cage's character in this marketing? Because I don't remember. I don't remember that either. And I felt like kind of like. you got to buy a ticket in order to see what long legs looks like. Right. And then it became a meme, which I was very familiar with. Yeah. And I didn't see the, I must've stayed away from it. Cause I didn't see the full face until the.

Until Long Legs. Until you watched it just this time? Really? So what was your initial impression? Sorry to interrupt. No, no, no. Was it good or bad? When his bottom of his mouth popped up at the beginning, I was like, ooh, creepy. And then the editing was pretty good in that first little sequence too. Cause it's just really like flashes of. Yeah.

And it was snowy, which in the notes, it snowed that day just by chance. Because Nicolas Cage was delayed a day getting there. Yeah, he brought the snow with him. Yes, he did. He probably did. That's not a reference to cocaine, by the way. Yeah. Although I guess in the Charlie Sheen documentary, I watched my lovely wife, Leslie and I, we watched Long Legs last night and she told me she had watched the Charlie Sheen documentary. I've seen that too, yeah.

And Charlie Sheen says, the craziest times I had in my entire life were spent with Nicolas Cage. Can I tell you a quick thing about when he was on Conan? And I don't know that he would have an issue with this. I don't think I'm telling tales out of school. but he was on and the whole time he, he was really charming and friendly and for all his complications, whatever. And the whole time I'm kind of like, there's a problem with the mic. Something's going on.

it's there's like a high pitch there's a frequency thing something is a popping something's wrong and after it was over i i leaned over to eduardo the engineer and we both realized And it's, I guess he's maybe said this before he has cocaine nose. So there's like a type of whistle pop thing that when he speaks, there's a second sound, like, like almost like a Tibetan monk happening.

That just is constant with him. And so we had to use software to take it out. We had to isolate the frequency and take it out. Wow. Yeah. It's called the... the software is using the Robert Evans patch. Are you, what do you, are we running Evans on this or full Scarface? What do we do? No, no, this is fine. This is just, this is just Oliver Stone. Just run it. Give me 70% Oliver Stone and 10% Robert Evans. And we got Scarface as a backup.

But why was I talking about? Oh, oh, Nicolas Cage. Yeah, you were asking me about his face and the makeup. Yeah. And then when the full face was revealed sort of near the. end of the movie. Yeah, it freaked me out. It was a scary face. It's a good look. It just in motion didn't work for me. Yes, it's more... a photograph might be scarier than the yeah yeah yeah yeah um the um oh okay so with the the marketing um

They did their heart rate stunt in which they discussed having a heart rate monitor on Micah Monroe. Oh, the Monroe part is what the thing I was going to say about long legs. When it was just the lips at the beginning, I thought Michael Jackson. Yeah. When they showed the full face, I was like, this is Marilyn Manson. Oh, yeah. But like, real life.

when Marilyn Manson is doing an interview in like 2024 and he's just this kind of like chewed up guy who's like put too much cakey white makeup into his pores too much of his life and now like the distinction where the makeup begins and ends is like a little like, um, but, uh, uh, yeah, she wore a,

heart rate monitor when she first meets Nick Cage on set during the interrogation scene. Yeah, because she did not meet him until the moment she goes into that interrogation scene. So they put a heart monitor on her? Like they were looking that far ahead for the marketing? I guess. That feels a little like, that's what I mean. This movie seems reverse engineered for a little bit for gimmicks first. Yeah.

which is fine in the horror genre. Of course. Yeah. William Castle. But when you're so serious about it, it just, it feels more like this needs to be a Blumhouse movie or something. Yes, yes, yes. Neon also put a serial killer coded ad in the Seattle Times newspaper. They put up a billboard that didn't include the film's title, just a phone number that when called had a pre-recorded message.

After the film's first weekend in theaters, they also released a video showing the 15 times the devil appears on screen in the film. What did you think about those devil things? That scared me. The black cloak with the eyes. Barely. Yeah. That was the scariest image for me. It was. But they. also a little small where it's just a little bit like just just popping in you're doing good work you're doing good work okay i'm gonna let you do your work i've hired the right person obviously

Just want to do some quality control. Everything's in check. Keep it up. Keep up the good work. You think Satan came to the set and stuff? Was a technical advisor? The last things I'll say. Not since the Blair Witch Project launched 25 years ago on the same weekend in July has there been an independent genre film that out-projected, out-performed, and over-indexed so wildly that it seemed to the industry it came out of nowhere.

But so that was some notes on why the advertising took that shape and maybe why there was the discussion of hype and did it live up to the hype? yeah um but uh uh yeah uh what was i gonna say oh the the code stuff i did like to the thing earlier that I was saying of like, there's so much stuff that I'm willing, I want to go gaga over. Yeah. When I was like, wait a minute. So this is a.

Serial killer movie. Love it. This is an FBI agent with psychic powers. Love it. Oh my gosh. And now they're throwing in Zodiac. Codes and puzzles. Love that stuff. There was all these things that I did love. It's just too many ingredients. Yeah, yeah. Psychic FBI, Zodiac Killer, Annabelle-style doll thing. Yes.

Love the doll stuff. Love voodoo. So yes. Kind of Carrie with the mother killer. Yep. Psycho with the mother killer. Yeah. Psycho with the mother killer. You know what it is, Matt? It's like when they say like.

When you get dressed to go out for the night, before you go out, look in the mirror, take one thing away. Yeah. This could have taken one or two things away. Exactly. I think what we're getting to. I think this movie. And speaking of that. They had to use a lot of CG for little things like footprints in the snow, but apparently Micah Monroe had a bunch of earrings on her ears.

that they didn't catch the first day. So they had to use CG to remove those earrings too. Yeah. When I mentioned the, what if Satan was a technical advisor? You know, I'm no FBI head by any means or anything. But I wish maybe they had like a FBI technical advisor because there was some stuff that I was like, what's the main character's name? What's the character's name? I forget. Lee. Lee Harker. I should remember that. They say it.

Throughout the movie. But there was just some stuff where I'm like, she's acting more like a girl in a slasher movie than a FBI agent. Well, it's interesting that she is the new scream queen, basically. There's no one else that is in so many and almost only horror movies these days, right? I mean, she's in The New Hand That Rocks the Cradle. Of course, she was first in It Follows. Right. Yeah.

she's great but it's like when the like in the first scene which really surprised me when she's going up to the house not the first scene but the first kind of like fbi sequence when they're walking up the house the guy gets shot in the head yes that was effective that was really effective and then the style of walking through a house with those like tarps and stuff that was super cool very like man hunter michael man yeah

uh, like loved all that, how it felt and looked. Um, but like, uh, I thought maybe ET was going to be in there with all the government keys, but like, When she went into the house, I was kind of like, I don't know if the FBI person would do that. I had that same issue, that same nitpick of going, why would she not?

Call for backup. You wouldn't want to go in there. Yes. And I didn't feel like she wanted to go in there. Yes. So why was she going in there except to move the movie along? Yes. And for a movie, again. It's not unfair to compare it because the movie wants you to kind of compare things to these fun movies like Silence of the Lambs and stuff. Silence of the Lambs is so technically advised.

that you just believe anything that's in front of your eyes because it feels so... Silence of the Lambs is the movie where they put the stuff in their nose so they don't smell... Yeah, the menthol. Direct... comparison to that scene is when they go into the in in long legs is when they go into the thing and the two corpses are in the bed and they pull the sheets back and the bodies they're rotten corpses covered in maggots and stuff i was like

that room would reek. And this movie doesn't get into the sensory stuff of like, that room would reek. And then it made me think of like... That's the difference between this and Silence of the Lambs. Silence of the Lambs goes, yes, this would reek. And we know in the FBI, they have this stuff where they rub inside their nostrils so you can't smell the smell so bad. The fact that the movie doesn't even think of this one.

Think of how things reek. And then also think about like the little detail, putting it in your nose. I felt it also when like the home invasion part, it did lead to my favorite part, which is when she goes outside and looks at the window and sees the guy walking around. But like when she ran out of the house, I was like.

And I'm not a nitpicker. I'm just like, well, just the fact that she's at home alone anyway, but she knows this guy wants her. Yes. Yeah. And it's like, and none of you're being a horror movie dummy. You're like running out of the house to see the shadow. what goes bump in the night. And it would be fine again in any other kind of Friday night horror movie. Exactly. This doesn't seem. And then also when she ran out nitpick, but it goes a long ways. When she ran out, she left the door open.

And I was just like, Claire, Clarice wouldn't do that. Clarice wouldn't run out of the house. And if she did... She would have made sure backup was on the way and she would have certainly closed the door. So like that sort of stuff. When I heard that she had earrings in her ear, I kind of did think like, okay, I think that they were moving fast.

It's a low budget thing. It's fine. But like running and gunning and maybe not thinking about like what an FBI person would do with that. Yeah. I did like Blair Underwood in this and man, he looks good. Yes. Jeez. How does he didn't age at all?

Yeah, and Leslie was the one who, you know, when there was like a half hour left in the movie, she was like, oh, yeah, the daughter. Has her birthday party coming up. She mentioned. Oh, but that was another thing. Why is it? It was all these daughters with the 14th and then hers was on the third. Why were they then changing it to the 13th? Did I miss something there? Oh.

It's just confused. It was all muddled. It could have been so sharp. There really is a good movie here, I think. Yeah, even the notion of... A ninth birthday is awesome. I like love like, oh, shit goes down on somebody's ninth birthday. But the way the movie will kind of wishy-washy was like either six days before or six days after the birthday. It was like.

It needed another draft. I really think the script was the issue here. Yeah. It's just too many ideas. Yes, too many ideas that didn't... coalesce and they're also they're taking the risk that all these elevated horror movies do which is like mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery fine and then okay so when you drop the big when you drop the mic

you gotta like have it be like really like blow people away like oh this is how it all came together and if the explanation don't even maybe try to explain stuff you could keep it a little more inspired by the shining why is he called long legs they don't want to explain that but they over explain other things yeah i don't know that's all i got for this guy um let me see here real quick um

I basically said all these notes. So let me just quickly. Oh, I like that when this movie is so inspired by Silence of the Lambs. that they put it in the period when Silence of the Lambs came out. I know. I mean, they say it was originally supposed to be in 92. Yeah. Osgood Perkins didn't want to have the pictures of... bush senior up so they moved it over to 93 but it sounds the lambs like one best picture in 1992 yeah also you you're not required to put up pictures of the president uh

I know we've talked about this trope in movies, the period movie that puts up the picture of the president. Because Nixon's in the earlier version. Yeah, he's up on the wall, which they added digitally later. When I saw that Nixon thing, I was like, you don't need to do that. I know it's in this time period. And also...

I don't think that many families, no, no, even like hardcore Republicans were like, let's hang up. Well, nobody hung up. Nobody hung up pictures of presidents. Yeah. Maybe Kennedy and maybe Roosevelt, but that Catholic families, you are required. Okay. Fair enough. Uh,

In order to receive the Eucharist, you have proof that a picture of John F. Kennedy. That's funny. You should bring that up because another problem with the house of dynamite is you can't do generic Morgan Freeman presidents in the Trump era anymore. You can't. Is he the president? No. No, but that style. Deep impact. Yes. You can't do that because all of what you're watching...

is informed by the reality. And this movie does not give you enough willing suspension of disbelief to make me think I'm in a traditional presidential administration. Yes. I'm just thinking, how would Trump's ego blow this thing? yeah high hell and high water yeah and then when you it's revealed that it's idris elba's the president and he starts like name checking the title of the movie because he heard it on a podcast he listened to

As someone saying, what do you want to do about launching a nuclear attack? It's Oh, boy. It's rough. And you just can't help. At first, you don't see who the president is. You just hear him. And I didn't realize. You're like, this sounds like Knuckles from the Sonic the Hedgehog movie. At first, I was like, because it's Idris Elba, but he's doing an American accent. And it's like...

Did they hire someone to do an exact impression somewhere between Biden and Trump so you can interpret what you want to? But no, it becomes this Obama-esque figure. Oh, that's funny. If it was the... audio equivalent of the yellow the gold and white dress the black and blue it is yeah however you hear it yawning what was that thing where you hear a word it's like

Oh, yeah. You either hear Biden or Trump based on a. Anyway. Yeah. I mean, in a lot of times in a period movie, the president, the frame president picture will kind of be in the.

This was like front and center and prolonged in many scenes that like, you know, a movie doesn't have to do this, but like when you do it, you just start going like, well, what's the... not message or why did you say like why is why is the clinton so prominent in the you've already got a a cheap wood paneled office building we know it's not the modern day

You know, it seems more like a Knights of Columbus hall. Yeah. And the interrogation room too, it did seem like they were shooting in obviously not a police station. Yeah. Or it's not Quantico or what's it called? Is that what the FBI, what's the, yeah. Yeah, I think so. What's it called? Yeah, where the CIA is? Annapolis and Quantico. Quantico, okay. But yeah, the...

And obviously it had something because preferring to have Clinton over Bush senior is a short, you know, like maybe it's just purely aesthetic, but like, well, he said he didn't want. pictures of bush up the whole time well then you don't have to have pictures at all yeah and just then continue making it in the bush administration also the thing you said about like you can't have a representation of a president now

in during this time when we have this real kook of a president yeah um uh just a little side note uh you know whether you love trump or you hate trump And I'm not saying anything new, but just that's an example of this thing I feel, which is like, I love culture, Matt. And, you know, sometimes culture is like impacted by what's going on politically or socially. But also a lot of times can kind of like stand on its own and do its own things. And it does. But like the way.

That man has like flattened all culture to the point, you know, it's annoying. That he tears family, that families don't talk to each other because he's become such a presence in family's life. You're like, somebody's like, I can't talk to my dad now because this fucking asshole. I'm like, as like a. a lover of comedy and a lover of movies. I'm like, God damn it. This fucking narcissist has found a way to like seep into the, like.

Now a movie can't have a president unless it's somehow related. Like it has to be. I'm like. Oh my God, I can't wait for the time where a president could just, in a movie, could just be a president. Because you can't have him in it, it ruins it.

And it's been 10 years. Or you can't have him not in it because it ruins it. It's kind of ruined that trope. Exactly. That would be a reason to set this. Maybe that's what they're... Well, they aren't saying this is Obama because they show a picture of Obama. in the movie. So it's really strange. Also, culture is exciting how it cycles through every seven years. You look through history and you're like...

a new look, a new feeling, a new zeitgeist came around every seven years. We've really kind of been in the same headspace for like a decade now. And it's like another three years. The fact that like two. eras of culture, which is like, you know, 14 years has been all like Rhodes. I mean, I'm part of it by talking about it now. We're doing it.

Oh, I do like word association, image association tests. Yeah. The one in Skyfall is pretty good. Yes. Yeah. The one, the big one is the. Warren Beatty movie. Parallax View? Yeah, he has one of those. But it's more like a mind control thing rather than association. The...

got some microfilm in there. Yeah. The microfilm was the, how we found out about the devil part. I liked it. All of this was coming together when she looked up the microfilm and it said six, six, six. Hey, all right. Um, the, um, Oh, this is the my favorite just scene was when he went into the pharmacy. Oh, yeah. And Osgood Perkins daughter, I guess, is the one working behind the counter. She was really great. She was really funny in the movie.

Oh, and it's funny in the C that she says, dad. But when she was like, that creepy guy is here again. That was really good. That was good. Actress who plays Sally Draper, Kiernan Shipka. Yeah. This is the best performance I've ever seen. Yeah, she's good. They pitched her voice up a little bit. Yeah. I didn't understand the home video, the sinister stuff of the mom who was setting up the camera. That just seemed like... That was just another thing. Just have a flashback, baby. We've seen those.

Uh, we know how to handle this. I know they have to do the thing of like, the mom has to play a younger self. So you have to cast an actor who, but like. that actress was like straight up only like two years older than her daughter. Like there was some scenes where I was like, uh, they could be sisters. Yeah. Um, the, um, uh,

Oh, yeah. The total kind of Osgood Perkins admitted to it. The scene where they find long legs is the total like John Doe. And then the little scene that they have where they're like. well, this could just be the end of it. But if you really want to get them, you go and talk to it. Like, I was like, oh, this is, you know, that's all seven. But the, I did think that interrogation scene was really great.

I, it compelled me back. I guess I just couldn't get past the makeup and that's maybe on me. No, no. I think that is like a 100% legit criticism to have a movie because if. The moment the monster is revealed, hey, Jaws looks fake. But when he comes out, you're still scared of Jaws. It's the presentation. Well, it's just that when I... feel that artifice it same thing with bad cg or something i don't know if it has something to do with being having a history of visual art myself but it's funny

The children's drawings on the wall in this were done by Osgood Perkins' actual children. Brantley pointed that out. So it really passed that test. I love that part when... They were like, and the video continued after that. And she was like, how long did he sing happy birthday? They're like 24 minutes. That's pretty funny. That was funny. I would like to, that's the movie I want to watch. I just want to watch that VHS. I know.

like this movie if it really wanted to go hard would just show that 24 minutes but it also felt like they're favoring showing him on VHS resolution as opposed to high def to yeah again I mean maybe they knew they were dealing with limitations in those yeah prosthetics And then, yeah, the last thing I'll say is just that backstory kind of information that the mom was a part of it. And then that leading up to...

oh, she's going to deliver the doll to the girl. That stuff was like pulling me forward. On its own, yeah. The end, you know, there's... movies that end that it's not like I'll think about this sometimes with movies where you're like well sure that little girl was saved she didn't kill but like

She has to live the rest of her life being like, oh, on my ninth birthday, my parents stood up in front of me, went into the other room, and my dad murdered my mom. And then I saw my dad get killed before my eyes. Yeah.

Just kill the kid. I think the kid's going to die. Isn't that what they're implying? That Micah Monroe is then, at the end, she's transfixed by the doll. She's probably going to, I assume, kill the kid. So when she was running out of bullets... to shoot the doll I did think is this supposed to be some this is the last question I had it was like her view of like

shooting the little girl or shooting herself and she's out of bullets was she really aiming it at the doll or i think she was and then that forces her to look at it and we see her kind of get transfixed by it. And the, you know, the kind of scary, not quite twist ending is it's not over. But earlier when the doll got shot.

Its head got blown up. Remember? But it still has the ball, right? The little, but also I don't care how open your hearts are religious. If a lady coming in the nineties and it. strange, archaic nun costume brings you a doll of your daughter, you're not going to sit there and go like, isn't this cool? Especially if you're the dad who's been on the investigation this whole time talking about spooky dolls.

And nice birthdays. That's a great point. If you were Blair Underwood, you're like, you know what? Let's go to Disney World for the next week for your birthday. Let's just get out of town. And let's definitely put this out in the shed. Yes. I thought maybe he is such a non-believer that he's willing, you know, he's a skeptic. So he's like, well, this isn't going to affect me. But yeah.

all right all right we go before we give it a score let's read some baby xenomorphs okay Oh, also, I think the opening logos, the studio logos, if we timed it, I think it might be the longest stretch of studio logos we've seen in any movie yet. Is that right? I mean, that was my hunch. Wow. I didn't clock that for some reason. Long legs. Okay, this is just a shout out by name. Ryan Lawler. And... Hello, my name is H.R. Giger and kind of long legs, you kind of stole my thing, man.

A little bit. Just tone it back. I know you're white, but I'm black. So you're kind of just doing both sides of the same coin. Anyway, I didn't come here to throw shade, even though shade is kind of my thing too. Elizabeth Rothwell, this is a shout out to you. Okay. Maya. Maya would like to have a shout out. by their roller derby name. Hey, Rainbow Friday. That's a great name. That's awesome. I love that name. Yeah. And thank you for being a fan. Yes. Glad you like the...

Southern Lawyer and Yuppie Nightmares. I like them too. I love them too. Oh, I love you too. Okay. A Jeannie Berlin impression. Is that you, Paul? I'm hearing a Jeannie Berlin impression. Who's Jeannie Berlin? I don't know. Let's look it up. This is Frank Howard.

Frank Howard, Frank Howard. Thank you. At least get the shout out. Jeannie Berlin, that sounds familiar to me. Did that come up? Is that like, my mom's name is Jeannie. So is it like a character who's like my mom? And okay, she's a film actress. Who is in The Heartbreak Kid. Okay. She's the daughter of Elaine May.

Oh, that Jeannie Berlin. Oh, she's in Heron Vice. She's the lady who's like, and I've really fucked up my makeup right now. She's in succession and I've met her. Oh, cool. And I've met Elaine May. You have? That's a hell of a story I'll tell you sometime. Lucky you. Oh, my God. That's a legend. Yeah. It was a little boy. It might have been one of those don't meet your heroes moments, unfortunately.

But Jeannie Berlin kind of talks like this. Yes, yes. And I've seriously fucked up my makeup right now. Frank Howard, this is a bit of a shout out to you. All right, James. James Sutherland. Let's see. Fans since the first In Voorhees We Trust days. Hey, cool. Thank you again for listening. All right. Cameron Stevenson. Cameron Stevenson. Oh, okay. There's a long one here. So.

Thank you. We read these, but... Yeah. I read them when they come in, but it's been a long time, so I'm trying to reacquaint myself here. Enjoying the satanic panic season? Thank you so much. Oh, that's right. We're loving it too. I believe I spoke to this person. or possibly. Anyway, hope you're all doing well, certainly. Okay. Red in the voice of Dr. Loomis or Jay Leno? You want to take Jay Leno and I'll take Doc?

Hello, Cameron Stevenson. Yeah, Cameron Stevenson. Oh, did you see this, folks? I've... given up my pursuit of Michael Myers and I'm only pursuing the denim bandit Jay Leno. Hey, Dr. Loomis, can you help find the allegedly the mafia that's been beating me up for unpaid... Bets? Gambling debts?

And finally, John E. Boylan, who would like a shout out to his band, his Thanksgiving band, Thanksgiving and the Leftovers. Hey, John E. Boylan. Congratulations. Check them out. All right. So let's recap what we got here. Okay, we got Rosemary's Baby, double 13s. The Omen, 12 from me, 11 from Paul. Prince of Darkness, 9.5 from me, 9 from Paul. The seventh sign, double sevens for seventh sign. The first omen, double twelves. And for long legs? I liked it more than the seventh sign, which I loved.

So I'll give it an eight. Eight. Yeah. You and I are going to be closer than we probably thought at the beginning of this thing. I'm comfortable with an eight too. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I could have gone a nine too. Well, it's up to you. All right. So this is the end of this season. We won't be gone, but for, you know, a usual couple of few weeks, but there's always more contact.

happening on the Patreon and we'll be back very soon. We'll probably, maybe we'll do a little mini episode drop of our choices for the, should we call it dystopia now? Yeah. Did we, I'm looking them up right now. We didn't. picked the movies for Dystopia. No, we have not. Oh, okay. Okay, cool. Yeah. Maybe we can do a little special- That'd be fun. Drop of some kind. So stay tuned. We won't be gone long. Yeah. And we'll be back with what I think was the top choice for seasons when the trusty-

So we have lots of films to dig into and what our choices are going to be. And we'll have more soon. So people know, yeah, we were saying, let's pick the next seasons. One batch of movie was the Satan movies, but the other batch of movies that were even more popular were these apocalypse movies. So I can't wait to see them. And happy Halloween, even if it's already happened, everybody. All right. Bye.

For more Gourley and Rust content, head over to patreon.com slash with Gourley and Rust to get episodes ad-free and a whole week early, plus monthly mailbag episodes and feature-length watch-along film commentaries of your favorite horror classics. That's patreon.com slash withgorleyandrust. Email us at withgorleyandrust at gmail.com and your questions might be featured on a future mailbag episode.

with Gourley and Russ theme song by me, Matt Gourley, and performed by Townland. You can find us on Instagram as Townland Band, as well as Paul's fantastic band at Don't Stop Or We'll Die. And why not rate and review with Gourley and Russ on Apple Podcasts? It'll help us grow the show and keep us trucking through the Jasons and the Michaels, the Leatherfaces and the Chuckies, the Aliens and the Candymans.

We all love our pets. But we love to travel, too. And sadly, they can't always come along for the ride. Don't stress. Trusted House Sitters connects you with verified sitters who will stay in your home and care for your pets, all in exchange for a place to stay on their travels. So, while you're off exploring, your pets get to stay safe and happy at home, right where they belong.

Find a loving in-home pet sitter today at trustedhousesitters.com. Hey guys, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. There's an all-new season of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives now streaming on Hulu. MomTalk might have started as a sisterhood, but these Latter-day Saints are no angels. This season, there are new secrets, lies, and truths coming out, and you won't want to miss all the drama.

Watch the new season of the Hulu original, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.