Hey everyone, Julia here. Millions of Americans have lost access to abortion and other life-saving reproductive healthcare in just the last couple of years. But we can change that. When voters get the chance to decide for themselves, they always choose reproductive rights and freedom in state after state after state, blue or red. People all over the country are organizing
to get our rights back. So how can you help? Go to the fairnessproject.org slash wiser. And in just one click, you can make a donation to the abortion ballot measure fund, which works with grassroots organizers to get abortion measures onto the ballot in states like Arizona, Florida, Missouri, and Montana. Ballot measures put power back in the hands of voters. Just go to the fairnessproject.org slash wiser to donate today because every time reproductive
rights have been on the ballot since dogs, reproductive rights have won. So visit the fairnessproject.org slash wiser now. Lemonada Okay, so I am looking at my high school yearbook and at my senior page in particular, for those of you listening, I don't recommend doing this. If you could see this photo of me, it is just so unattractive. It's so unfortunate. It really is. I'm so somber. I look depressed while at the same time pretentious. So it's an interesting mashup of different horrible
teenage characteristics. By the way, I'm also wearing a serious sucker type of jacket. And I remember thinking, God, this is the shikest jacket. And guess what? News flash. It ain't anyway. Underneath, you know, everybody back then, I don't know if people still do this, but you put a quote or something that's supposed to sort of represent who you are, whatever. And so the quote I have underneath my picture is from the movie Julia, which was a 1977
film that starred Jane Fonda and Vanessa Redgrave. And in the film, Jane plays Lillian Hellman. It's an incredible film. I loved it then. I love it now. And I wanted to look at this quote because I recently saw this documentary about Jane Fonda on HBO called Jane Fonda in 5X. And I was thinking the whole time that I was watching this doc, my God, this woman, Jane Fonda, she has done a lot of shit in her life. I mean, it was, it was really riveting
to me. And as I watched her, I was really struck by the fact that we just don't hear enough about the lives of older women. You know what I mean? When women get older, they become less visible, less heard, less seen in a way that really, it just doesn't happen with men. We are ignoring the wisdom of like more than half the population. It is just stunning to me that women, old women, and by the way, not even so old women are so easily dismissed
and made invisible by our culture. You know, fuck that bullshit. I want to hear from older women. And that's how the beginning of the idea for this podcast was born. I'm going to talk to old ladies. I want to know how they do it, how they did it, how do they navigate aging and life, give us some tips from the front lines. And that's what we're going to do on Wiser than me. We're going to talk to women who are exactly that Wiser than me. And
guess what? Today, we're going to be talking with Jane Fonda. I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus. This is Wiser than me, a show where each week I get schooled by women who are Wiser than me. When I tell anybody that I'm doing this podcast thing where I get to talk to women who have lived extraordinary lives and have lived long enough to become truly wise, the first thing people always ask me is, are you going to talk to Jane Fonda? Really? Yeah. I'm going to
talk to Jane. Wait, Jane, I'm going to talk to you. Okay. I'm going to talk to Jane Fonda. I'm talking to Jane Fonda. Honestly, there's nobody like her. She's an actual American icon who has lived a life of passion, artistry, reinvention, controversy, commitment and advocacy. She was at the absolute forefront of all of these huge cultural movements, the anti-war movement, the environmental movement, women producing their own work in Hollywood movement,
the whole exercise aerobics thing. That was Jane Fonda. And now the climate crisis and a whole new way to think about and talk about aging. Oh my God. And just mentioning the name Jane Fonda can still really piss certain people off. How cool is that? She's the model of the kind of person we all need to listen to. I just can't wait to talk to Jane Fonda who is also definitely Wiser than me. Hi, Jane Fonda. Hi, it's an honor to talk to
you. It's an honor for me to talk to you. I just, oh my God. You know what I love? I'm watching you on VEEP. And my grandkids are watching you on early Seinfeld. And you know, you cross generations. And when I told them, I'm sorry, but I've got to go upstairs. I'm doing a podcast with you. They freaked out. They were so excited. Isn't that great? Yes, it's fabulous. I'm so pleased. Yeah, I think young people are watching Seinfeld
right now, which is, yeah, completely bizarre. So are you comfortable if I say your real age? I'm 85. Hey, how old do you feel? I feel 85. In my body and mentally, I feel much, much younger. But going back to when I was much younger wasn't so happy. So I don't really want to say that mentally, I'm younger. I'm not. It's just that spiritually and mentally
and psychologically, I'm way younger than 85. But you know, one of the things that I've learned is I've gotten into serious old age is when you're inside it as opposed to looking at it from the outside, it's not nearly as scary. Oh, wow, that's incredible. That's one thing. And the other thing is that num, the number, the chronology of age is not what's important. It's health. You know, for example, my dad died at 76. You know, I'm on my way
to 86 now. And I'm much, much, much, much younger than he was. He was so old at 76 because he was sick. He had a heart disease. You know, I'm fine. I'm healthy. I've had cancer, but it's in remission. And, and you know, if you're healthy, 85 can be quite young. Yeah, especially if you stayed fit, you know, and I move a lot. I just finished a workout. What kind of workout do you do, by the way? Slow. That's, that's, you'll find out that's the operative word.
I do kind of the same moves, but slowly and with less weight. I say, yeah. I wanted to show you something because I think you're going to get a kick out of this. Well, you might. I say that, but you see that picture. It's you. It's me. And it's my senior page. And the reason I'm showing you this is because on everybody's senior page, you put a quote. And guess what my quote was? Oh gosh. What? It was, it was words that you spoke in the exquisite
movie Julia that you spoke as Lilian Helman. And I put it on my senior page. And now here I am talking to you. What did it say? Well, here we're going to pull it up right now. And then I was hoping that you might read it. Yes. Old paint on canvas as it ages sometimes becomes transparent. When that happens, it's possible in some pictures to see the original
lines. That is called Pentemento because the painter repented, changed his mind. Perhaps it would be as well to say that the old conception replaced by a later choice is a way of seeing and then seeing again. The paint has aged now. And I wanted to see what was there for me once. And what is there for me now? How about that? Well, that's quite a mouthful
for your senior book. Yeah. For 18 year old. I have to say I'm impressed. Yes. And maybe a little bit horrified because it's somewhat pretentious for an 18 year old to put that on her senior page. Yes. Are you leaving? I see. No, no, I'm not leaving. I'm looking for a quote that I like better. Good. But shit, I wish I had known you back then because then I would have used the quote you liked better on my page. All right. Here it is.
This is TS Elliott, little giddling from four quartets. We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. That's a much better quote from my senior page, Jane. I should have used it. God damn it. What a missed opportunity. That's it. God damn it. And it's a quote that I use at the beginning of act three in my memoir because what I discovered as I prepared
for my third act was you spend your life exploring as I have. And what you realize is you go back to your girlhood and you become all the things that she was supposed to be that you never knew at the time was really who she was because you were trying to be what other people thought she should be. That to me was was why I quoted that. Right. That's been your journey. Yeah. Can you define what the third act is? Yeah. Well, I was married
to Ted Turner. I was on a ranch in New Mexico. And I realized that I'm about to be 59 and holy shit in a year. I'm going to be 60. And for some reason, for me, figuring I'm probably not going to live past 90 next year is the beginning of my last act, first 30 years, second 30 years, last 30 years. And you know, you're an actor. You know how important third acts are. They can make sense out of the first two, right? They're very important. It's
kind of legacy that you're going to leave behind. And so I thought I have no idea what I want to do with my third act. And then it hit me. I know what I don't want to have happened. I know that I don't want to die with regrets when it's too late to do anything about it. So one thing that I want to do in my third act is make sure that when I do die, I've cleaned up everything. I mean, you always have some regrets, but it's not going
to like make me feel bad when I die. And then the other thing is you can't really know how to go forward if you don't know where you've been. So I spent the year between 59 and 60 researching myself very objectively like it wasn't really me. It was somebody else. And what I discovered was that I'm really brave. I didn't know that before. I've been brave all my life. And that made me feel it gave me a lot of confidence. I was
a much more confident person at the end than I was when I started this research. So anybody that's approaching 60, think about doing what I discovered later, it's a thing. It's called a life review. Psychologist, psychiatrist, gerontologist, encourage older people to do this, especially older people who are depressed. Because one of the things that happens is that you discover, you know, a lot of who we are and how we behave and everything is
because of how we were parented or not parented, right? Right. And we always, because that's what kids do. We always assume that whatever happened, it was our fault. Right. And what I discovered and what people do discover when they do a life review was guess what? It had nothing to do with you. Yeah. My father whom you met. Yeah. A force, by the way. Yeah. A charismatic guy, but also a narcissist, which I think we have that incominent. Yes.
Our fathers. Yes. But a wonderful man in a lot of ways. Anyway, it was, it was his birthday or something and he already passed and my mom wrote me a note saying, you know, oh, because they were divorced and had been my entire life. And she wrote me this note saying, I know this is, you know, a day for you that you mark and so on. And I wish that there were ways that we could talk about what happened, you know, IE and our family and so on. And
I wrote it back and I said, what's keeping us from it? And so when I was like 60, she and I went into therapy together. Wow. Yeah. That is so great. It was so great. It was such a gift. What did that do for you? It was a release as a lot of things fell into place. There was an understanding. I understood where she was coming from. She came from a fraught family situation. And she understood what I was living through in my childhood with her
and my father and my stepfather and my stepmother and so on. And it was just, it was like something opened up. I mean, I guess that falls under life for you to a certain extent. It certainly falls under the regret heading, right? Yeah. So when you're talking about regrets, what are the regrets that you've worked through yourself? I mean, it sounds like you've forgiven yourself, which is great. Not there's a few things that I haven't forgiven myself for.
And that I can't really work. I was not a very good parent. What can I say? And I talked to my kids about it or I try to. Yeah. And I and I, I try to understand why I did what are the things that I did. And I and I try to show up for them now in ways that I didn't back then. So that's the main way that I deal with regret. Are you a good grandparent? I am. Yeah. Yeah. I am. I like being a grandparent. But I can always walk away. Yeah. I know.
That's sort of the perfect relationship in that sense. So would you say from your third act vantage point, what advice would you give to someone who's in their second act or in their first act for that matter? Okay. Let's start with the first act. Yeah. Let's talk about that. It's really, really hard to be young. Yeah. People always think it's hard to be old. No, it's hard to be young. Oh, Amen. I can agree with you more. It's,
it is so hard. And I personally think that it's important to let young people know it's not you, honey. It's just really hard. And middle ages where you try to become an operative person. And it's very charged when you get older. It's like, oh, I've been there done that. Didn't kill me. Okay. Okay. Dear listeners, this is Julia. And I'm cutting in here because the wildest thing happened right here when we were taping this. And I have to explain
it to you. So Jane and I are having this lovely conversation. Bob, Bob, Bob, right? Well, you might remember while back in California, we had what they called a bomb cyclone, which means a big ass storm with an atmospheric river. And that storm hit right at this moment. And the power at my house where I was on the Zoom call with Jane went out. Listen to this. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, fuck. Okay. I don't service. And I don't
Wi-Fi. Wait a minute. Oh, wait. It's connecting. It's trying to connect. Why are my lights coming back on? God, dammit. I can't call anyone. Fuck. So the power was out. And I couldn't communicate with anyone. And as you can hear, I was freaking out. And I didn't know though that I was being recorded by the way because the tape recorder has a battery backup, very clever. But what I also didn't know was that the power was still on for Jane. So she's still talking to
no one because my power was gone. You know, you have a perspective and you discover, you know, you know, you know, people are thinking and saying you're over the hill. But then you realize, oh my God, but there's whole new vistas over the hill. Other hills, other views, you just keep going and growing. Yeah. Meanwhile, back at my house, this is happening. That's my alarm going off. Yeah. Okay. So to recap, I've got no power. I've got no Wi-Fi.
Got no cell service. Everything had gone completely to shit. Oh, but my alarm seems to be working just fine, even though nobody's breaking in. And my very first podcast is a complete disaster, except at Jane's house where everything is great with Jane talking to nobody. Do you know what I mean? As you get older, you realize the importance of being intentional. Really, that's why doing a life review was important. Understanding what things have meant in your
life. You know, that's how you become wise. And so here's where Jane realizes what's up. I think I've lost her. Yeah, we have one second. So sorry. Is it my fault? No, no, it's not at all your fault. You're an incredible company. Hi, I'm Rachel. Hi, Rachel. That's our producer, Rachel, who swooped in and Jane was just so cool. It's not anything I said. Not all this is incredible. She didn't hang up on me. She could not. She did not. Not at all. Your outfit is incredible. You look great
and then the color. Thanks. This is a little lemon top. Little lemon is great. Yeah. So Jane Fonda is completely smooth and chatting about little lemon while I'm freaking out. And when we realize the power was absolutely not coming back on anytime soon, Jane very generously agreed to record the rest of the interview another day, which we did. And
you'll hear that after the break. One of the things that really frustrates all of us about fast fashion is just how quickly all of these clothes while they may be cute fall apart. That's why Quince is really hitting its stride right now in a landscape of fast fashion, a brand that's committed to making quality pieces that not only stand the test of time, but also look cute season to season is going to be everyone's go to. And they
have got your back when it comes to transitioning from summer to fall in particular. Quince has everything you need from their luxurious $50 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which are perfect for layering to versatile pants that fit any occasion. Their washable silk tops are especially popular, available in beautiful colors like basil green, ivory, and navy. These tops are not only stylish, but also practical, completely machine washable, so no more
trips to the dry cleaner. Quince's items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands by partnering directly with top factories and operating solely online. Quince eliminates the middle man passing the savings on to you. Make switching seasons a breeze with Quince's high quality closet essentials. Go to quince.com slash wiser for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash wiser to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash wiser.
When you're shooting movies, sometimes you can end up on a sound stage in burbing, but sometimes you get to go somewhere fabulous, like when we filmed Tuesday on location in London. That was fun. Travel is wonderful, but it does usually mean leaving your home underutilized while you're away. That's where hosting on Airbnb comes in. If you've been thinking about opening up your home to travelers, Airbnb has you covered.
Imagine turning that spare room into a delightful haven for someone exploring your city. It's not just about making extra income, although that's a nice aspect of it, too. It's really about sharing your space, your city, and your story with people from all over the world. Maybe you've stayed in an Airbnb yourself and you've appreciated the experience, whether it was a cozy, rural, hideaway, or a city apartment. You too could provide that for some
traveler who would love to stay in your home. So why not give it a try? If you have an extra room, you could be making a little extra cash while providing travelers with unforgettable experiences and fully utilizing your space. Join the Airbnb community today and who knows you might just become the host of someone's dream vacation. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.
You know how certain sense can transport you back to those beautiful beach days during your favorite vacation? Well, Oceas, Undaria, algae, body oil was formulated to do just that. And right now, you can get 10% off your first order with our code, wiser, at oceamalibu.com. This body oil smells like summer in a bottle with its all natural uplifting notes of mango,
mandarin, grapefruit, lime, and cypress. But it's not just about the amazing scent. It's clinically proven to instantly improve skin elasticity and deeply moisturized, leaving your skin silky and soft. When you use it, you feel like you've just returned from a tropical getaway. It's rich, but never greasy, and it makes skin feel sculpted and toned. With Ocea, you never have to choose between your values and having great skin. Their products
are clean, vegan, cruelty free, and climate neutral certified. Plus, Ocea is women-founded and led with over 28 years of experience in creating seaweed-infused skin care. Get healthy, glowing skin for summer with clean, vegan skin and body care from Ocea. Get 10% off your first order site-wide with code wiser at oceamalibu.com. You'll get free samples with every order and free shipping on orders over $60. Head to oceamalibu.com and news code wiser for 10% off.
Hi, Jane. Hi! Hi! Hi! Hey, I got power back. Thank God. I was worried that you were going to starve to death and freeze. Isn't that amazing what happened? It's not the most amazing thing. It was so bizarre. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to come back and continue our conversation. Can we talk about body and self-image? I mean, you're this incredible aerobics pioneer. I don't have to tell you this. You know this. So much of your life has
been about fitness. Talk about your body now, if you don't mind, and what has surprised you about your aging body. I'm curious to know. Because, as I mean, I'm not a young person anymore. And I'm surprised by what the hell's happening to my body. For real, it's really like you're kidding. Yeah. And I'm wondering what your experience is. Well, I'll tell you one thing. I am really grateful that I spent not all my life, but a good chunk of my
life getting strong. Right. Because I have muscles. Even at 85, I'm strong. And yet, even so getting in and out of those really high up cars, picking up my 3.5 year old grandson is hard. And yet still, you know, I'm surprised at how hard things get even when you are strong. But I have made peace with my body. It has gotten me a long ways. It's stood up for me. So I appreciate my body. I don't criticize it and hate on it anymore. And I'm such a blessing.
But I live alone, see you. Yeah. I don't have to show it to anybody. Yeah. I'm vain enough so that it would be hard for me to get naked in front of not if I lived with somebody 50 years, which I wish it had been my fate. But, you know, I wouldn't be able to get undressed in front of a new lover. Really? No, I've got too many nicks and, you know, cars and holes and all kinds of things. I mean, I've got two fakes up and a fake knee and
a fake shoulder and even a fake thumb. Fake thumb? How do you get a fake thumb? What are you talking about? I couldn't even hold a pencil. They were they were moved a bone and it and replaced it with a cadaver's cartilage. Now it works fine. Look at that. Yeah. You've had plastic surgery, correct? Yeah. I'm sorry to say yes. Are you really sorry to say? Yeah. I'm sorry that I that I did get plastic surgery. I am I wish that I had been
able to grow old and piece with my face. But, but I wasn't able to and I don't feel good about it. That's it's not real. I say, but I can't do anything about it now. Well, I think you look marvelous. Thank you. You're welcome. I was at a dinner once with Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft before she passed. Yeah. Did you ever get to know them or meet them? You must have. Well, I mean, I made a movie with her called Agnes of God. And I knew her because
of the studio and at least Rossburg. Yeah. It was sort of at the towards the end of her life. But I didn't know she was sick. And I said to her, Anne, you're such a magnificent actress, which of course she was. And I said, we don't get to see you anymore. Why are you not out there? You're so wonderful. And she said to me, I can't look at this. She said. And she was referring to her face. And I thought, first of all, the most exquisite woman practically
ever in my view, absolutely gorgeous. And the fact that she was saying that I think aging is hard for a woman in ways it is not for a man. And it was right. I mean, Greta Garbo retires at an early age among many, many other great beauties for the same reason that Annie's talking about, you know. And yet the guys go and they, you know, their jowls are hanging and there's all kinds of and nobody cares. Nobody cares. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been
hard for me to watch myself age on screen. That's for sure. I haven't even noticed it. Oh, thank you very much. So now you're single. Do you think you have to be single to be your own authentic self? It totally depends on your early childhood. I mean, I unfortunately don't think that I can totally be myself in a romantic relationship with a man. I'm not willing to try again. The last time I tried was about eight years ago. And I just can't do it. I don't have it in me
to really be myself with a man. And then when you were trying to do it eight years ago, what happened that made you realize, I can't do this again. I don't know since my very beginning of my life, I think I was conditioned to not be who I am in order to make a man love me. And I just don't want to do that anymore. I don't have time. Do you miss having sex with a man? Yes. But I tell you, after the season of Bracen Frankie, where Frankie and I created a
vibrator for older people, everybody in the world sent me vibrators. I got a drawer full, so it's great. What's your favorite vibrator? Do you have a fave? The rabbit, the famous rabbit. The famous rabbit. Right. Okay. When did you know that it was like time to call it quits? When did you come to that conclusion time to call it quits with a man? I usually know that the relationship should end when I begin fantasizing about their funerals. I'm not kidding. I plan
their funerals. And then I realize, what am I doing? You plan the funeral? Are you speaking at the funeral? Yeah. I'm the main speaker. No, for some reason, when my relationships end, I always think of death. And it is kind of like dying to have an important relationship. And I remember when I was working with the lawyers on my divorce with Tom Hayden, I put into the document that he's not allowed to speak at my funeral. See, in that case, I thought I was the
one that was dying. And I didn't want him speaking at my funeral. Wow. Do you have anybody you want speaking at your funeral now? I'm making a list. I'm making a list. Yeah. Not only that, but the music that I want played, I'm going to be buried in a shroud. I've already, I know where in the same wildflower, wild grass filled, no headstones feel that Tom Hayden is buried in because I don't want the children to have to go to two different places to talk to us and think about us.
So it's all arranged. I'm going to be wrapped in a sheet and put in a hole. And who's speaking at your funeral? Ideally. I'm not going to tell you. This could be a whole no. I'm just so fascinated that you have the plan. I just love it. I know. Yeah. No, it's good. So I get the sense you're not afraid of dying. No, not at all. I kind of look forward to it. It's like a new adventure. Yeah. You know it's a new adventure. I have a friend actually who just lost her mother and her mother
was so looking forward to leaving this earth. And because she'd been in a lot of pain actually. And just about 20 minutes before she died, she said how excited she was to go. And then she says, oh, oh my god, I haven't put my lipstick on. Oh, that's like my aunt. Yes. And she put her lipstick on. And then she died about 20 minutes later. Oh, I love that. I love that. I do too. My father's sister, one of them, when she was dying, she also made sure to have the right
lipstick on and and the right, the right night gown. Yes. Because of who she was going to see on the other side. See, I'm not so sure about seeing anybody on the other side. And I don't care about the lipstick, but I want to be able to have things to say to the people that are with me. I hope that there'll be people with me who care for me. And that I want to clam up. My dad just clammed up. I couldn't get him to say anything. Really? Not one word. No.
Assume you get to see him again. You can open up the conversation. I'd like to. So in the documentary, you said, I wanted to be a good girl. A good girl is not an ambitious person. So how did you find your ambition? I don't know. I've never felt very ambitious, particularly. Really? For a long time, I just kind of went from one thing to another because somebody wanted me. I couldn't believe it. You know, the idea of saying no, if somebody offered
me a job seemed impossible. I was just so grateful that somebody wanted to hire me. Then when I started to do my own stuff, starting with coming home, in an away with clu, even though I didn't produce clu, I started to care more than about what I was doing. Right. I didn't look at parts in relation to what's this going to do for my career ever. Well, I mean, as somebody on the outside looking at your career, I would say that
this is a woman who is ambitious. And I maybe the word is wrong. I also think that if you call a woman ambitious, that can sometimes feel negative as opposed to when you call a man ambitious. Yeah. I mean, if you say, Oh, that man is very ambitious. So in your mind, you think, hmm, successful, he's successful. Yeah. That woman's ambitious, you think, hmm, stay out of her way. A bitch. Yeah. Exactly. And that's why I went when I was trying out for the lead role that
Natalie Wood ended up having and Splendor in the grass. Ilya Kazan asked me, are you ambitious? And I said, no. In the minute, the word came out of my mouth. I knew that was a mistake. I could see it on his face. Oh, he didn't want that answer. No. But it's also not a very fair question to ask. And that mean, you know, anyway, who says that any of them are fair? Correct. That each I ask you once said to me, what have you ever done besides being Henry fondest daughter?
I mean, those guys, they were, you know, they were never compassionate or anything. Who was a good mentor for you? Who gave you healthy advice or steered you in a way that was good for you? I'll tell you what, I, you know, I was brought up to never ask for advice or help. And I erroneously thought that that was the way you were supposed to be if you were a grown-up until I was about 60. And so I know I never ask for advice. I mean, that seemed to me to be a
weakness. But Catherine Hepburn, without my ever asking her, gave me a lot of really good advice when we were making on Golden Pond. Like? Oh, like. I am terrified of going over backwards. Whether it's a backwards summer solter or a backward dive. So doing the backflip was really, really challenging for me. Plus, I hate cold water and dark water. Cold, dark water on it in a backflip is my biggest nightmare. And I had to do it because Catherine Hepburn challenged me.
And so when I was practicing, practicing, practicing, and covered with bruises, I finally did it. And as I crawled out of the water, she had been hiding in the bushes. And she came out, she came over to me. I was shocked. And she said, Jane, you've taught me to respect you. You never want to get soggy. You always have to stand up to your fears. Never get soggy. That was a really good piece of advice. Stand up to your fears. And I thought
that was pretty good. And yeah, she wasn't a very nice person. And she didn't really like me, but she was there. Wait a minute. What do you mean she didn't like you? Why didn't she like? You. She told Dominic Don Wants, Jane Fonda, has no soul. Well, she told me the first time I met her, she said, I don't like you. Anyway, there's all kinds of reasons, but she was jealous. Talk about competitive and ambitious. Oh my God. I had to realize, I realized early on that I had to
be subservient. And once I started being subservient, then she was nice to me. Did she know that you did a great impression of her? Because that's a great impression. No, no, she didn't. After the day after the Oscars, we were all three, me, my dad and her were nominated. Yeah. And I'd won two already. She'd won three. So if I won and she didn't, we'd be tied. But if I didn't win and she did, then she'd have four. And I'd only have two.
Right. Neither she nor my dad went to the Oscars. They were both ill. And I called her to congratulate her. And she said, you'll never catch me now. No. Seriously. Seriously. How old was she? How old was she when she said that, Jane? A little younger than I am now. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It took me a minute to even realize what she was talking about. What she was saying. Yeah, exactly. I got to talk about competitive. Wow. Yeah. Did she have a sense of humor? Was she, like when she
said that, was she trying to be cute and clever? No, really. No, it was just her, what she was really, that was her really what she was thinking. And she's, she just couldn't keep it in. Oh, she was really competitive. Yeah. I have to say, I don't like women like that. It bums me out. It makes me feel because there's a lack of generosity there that for me, it's stymies creativity. You know what I mean? I mean, there's nothing I love more than working with generous actors and
actresses. I mean, I get the sense that Lily Tomlin is incredibly generous and credibly. She's got a huge heart. Yes. Huge heart. Yeah. Female friendships are a huge part of your life now. Yes. It sounds like they're kind of your life's blood in a way. Is it in this third act of your life that you realize the that the truly realize the value of female friendships? Or did you sort of always know that I never knew it. Oh, yes, it was only when I was older. No, I grew from from the very
beginning of my life. As far as I was concerned, if I'm going to make it through life, I'm going to hitch my wagon to my father's star or to some other man's star. I've got to be with an alpha male. I didn't know that word at the time, but you know, a strong man, interesting man who can take me into worlds that I'm not familiar with. And I had no women friends. It wasn't until I gave birth to
a daughter that I started very tentatively having women friends. And then when I became an activist, it was the women that I met here in this country, the women activists that were the most responsible for my new consciousness and transformation. It was being with them was like looking at the world, looking through a keyhole at the world that we're trying to create. They behaved like what we should all behave like with kindness and generosity and humanity. And oh my gosh, I thought,
isn't that interesting? Men have never treated me this way before. These women, and there's, you know, three or four that specifically that when they looked at me, I know they were looking at me, not the celebrity. And I felt seen and they asked me how I felt and what I thought about things. Men never did that. More with Jane Fonda after the break. There's something about the sensory experience of a tropical vacation, right? That feeling of
sand between your toes, the warm sun on your skin, and of course the smells. Well, we have something that will bring all those memories rushing back. Oceas, Andaria, algae, body oil. And right now, you can get 10% off your first order with our code, wiser at oceamaliboo.com. The texture of the Andaria, algae, body oil is rich yet never greasy. It's clinically proven to improve skin elasticity instantly. It visibly firms and makes your skin feel more toned. It leaves your skin silky,
soft, and unbelievably glowing. It gives you that radiant post vacation glow like you've just come back from a tropical escape. Plus, this body oil is an Oceabestseller, with its amazing scent of mango, mandarin, grapefruit, lime, and cypress. The best part, you don't have to compromise on your values to get amazing skin. Oceas products are clean, vegan, cruelty free, and climate neutral certified,
which should be incredibly important to all of us. Plus, Ocea is women founded and led, and they've been perfecting their seaweed infused skin care for over 28 years. Get healthy glowing skin for summer with clean vegan skin and body care from Ocea. Get 10% off your first order site wide with code wiser at oceamaliboo.com. You'll get free samples with every order and free shipping on orders over $60. Head to osbamaliboo.com and use code wiser for 10% off.
This show is sponsored by MidiHealth. You know, there are a lot of perks that come with getting older, wisdom, experience, and knowledge. But for women over 40, it can also mean dealing with some not-so-fun stuff, hot flashes, insomnia, brain fog, mood swings, and all those other lovely symptoms of menopause and perimenopause. But here's the thing. Just because hormonal changes are a part of life doesn't mean you have to just deal with all the symptoms. That's where MidiHealth comes in.
They're the only virtual care clinic specifically for women navigating this midlife hormonal rollercoaster. They've got your back with safe and effective FDA-approved medications, plus supplements, lifestyle coaching, and preventative health tips. And the best part, all of their services are covered by insurance. Plus, you can connect with them through super convenient telehealth visits and 24-7 messaging. If you're over 40, use all that wisdom you've gained over the
years and visit MidiHealth because you deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit today at joinmidi.com. That's joinmidi.com. This message is brought to you by the Colaguard test. Colaguard is a one-of-a-kind way to feel more in control of your colon cancer screening, which is something everyone at average risk needs to start doing at 45. Yes, you heard that right. Not 50, not 52, 45. With the Colaguard test, you can screen on your own time at home with none of
the prep that's required of a standard colonoscopy. It is the only FDA-approved non-invasive screening test that looks for both altered DNA and blood in your stool. Even if you don't have any symptoms, it is so important to test beginning at 45 because many patients with early stage colon cancer have no symptoms at all and are diagnosed through screening. And in addition to the convenience
and ease of use, it's also affordable. Most insured patients pay $0.00. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a use-at-home screening test that's delivered right to your door, there's no reason that we should let our health take a back seat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with a guard test. You can also request a Colaguard prescription today at colaguard.com slash podcast.
Do not use Colaguard if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. Falls positive and negative results may occur. Any positive result should be followed by a colonoscopy, not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. The Colaguard test is available by prescription only. Do you think in terms of your activism and being an actor, do you consider
yourself an activist first, an an actress second, or are they on par with each other? How do you feel about that? They're on par with each other because when it's a good script and a good character, I love it so much. Me too. And it connects to my activism because it gives me a platform. I mean, listen, I have been an activist at a time when I had no hits TV series or or movies or anything and how I was treated then as opposed to how I was treated
with Grayson Frankie at my back. Totally different. Describe that difference. Well, police roughed me up. You know, I was called names, hair pulled out of my head and chunks, all kinds of things like that. Now that I had a successful TV series, that didn't happen. Also, don't you think being older too is helpful? They're not going to pull hair out of your head. Well, I depend on where I go. I'm going to be spending a lot of time in the Gulf region coming up.
So I'm going to see, we'll see what happens. What are you going to do in the Gulf region? Well, the Biden administration has issued more than two dozen permits for new gas terminals in an area that is already buckling under cancer and heart defects and lung diseases because of all the pipelines and refineries and everything in the Gulf. And if these gas terminals go through,
it's a climate time bomb. It's the end. It's a disaster. We have to stop it. So I'm going to go there with fire drill Fridays and film interviews and try to build opposition to this locally and nationally so that we can stop it. Biden should be ashamed of himself. I'm glad you're doing that.
What are you doing that soon? Well, I go in June. I go in May. And then the second half of the year, we're focusing on California because we got Gavin Newsom, the governor to sign a bill that was so important to create a 3,200 foot health and safety buffer between oil wells, fracking pits and communities, schools and playgrounds and stuff like that. And now the oil companies have got a ballot that will vote on in 24 to undo it. I would like to be a part of the work you're going to do here in
California. Wow. Well, that's a big deal. Well, I would love to do it. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Please. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So now I just want to ask you a couple more quick questions and then you can bolt in and get the hell out of here. Unless the power goes out and then I'll have to call you back a third time. Is there something you'd go back and tell yourself at 21? No, is it complete sentence?
Yeah. No apology after it. Just no. Just no. That's a good one. I love that. That came from, I'll tell you who that came from Annie Lamont, who was doing a book signing in Atlanta, was the biggest turnout for any author I had ever been to. I love her books. Me too. And somebody asked her to read a script they had. And there were like 2,000 people in the theater. And she said, no, I learned at AA, that is a complete sentence. Oh, that's so good. I love that. I'm totally going to use that. Yeah.
Speaking of saying no, is there something you'd go back and say yes to? You know, I often think I'm sure that there were a number of men that came my way who were perfect for me, who were not afraid of saying, come on, Fonda, show up. Let's be real, okay? Show up and could have taken it and could have revealed himself as well and didn't need drugs or alcohol or anything else to and I wonder who they were. And if I had been wiser,
I would have said yes. I say. Yeah. This is not a question. This is a comment. I have to say, your hair color is stunning. Isn't it wonderful? And it's just my own hair color. When did you decide to go gray? I just decided that I didn't want to have to keep putting chemicals on my head. So I said to Marta Kaufman, who was the show runner for Grayson Frankie, Marta, I want to go gray. Can Gray school gray too? And so, you know, put it into the storyline.
And we did what we had Gray's gradually getting gray. Wow. I'm looking forward to doing that. I really am. I'm very gray. Is there anything that you want me to know about aging as I'm entering this third act of my own? Is there anything I should know, Jane? Can you tell me from the front lines? Well, successful aging in large part depends on good health. So stay healthy. Okay. Posture is important. You can seem very old if you have bad posture, even if you're not all
that old. And keep exercising. You've got to stay strong. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Just moving, just moving, just moving. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I just adore you. And I you, you know, it's funny. I just for the audience knows this. We both went to a huge mansion to celebrate Norman Lear's 100th birthday. And on the way I saw you and I came over and introduced myself. And I assumed
that we knew each other, but we didn't. We never really met before. You know what, though, we did meet once very, very briefly at a, this was back when you were married to Ted. And you, it was at a global green event that Michele Gorbachev said. I remember that. I remember that very well that event. But I'll tell you a story about Ted really quick. Yeah. I was seated next to him. And he made a comment about all the money that we, him and me had made
from the syndication of Seinfeld, right? And I said, well, actually, Ted, you know what? I don't own Seinfeld. So I didn't really make that kind of money. And then he reaches into his pocket and he gave me a hundred dollar bill. Oh, thanks, Ted. But that's Ted. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I was surprised that you looked so surprised when I came up to you and greeted you at that Norman Lear party. And I think I was just waiting to become friends with you because I admire you so much.
And so this has been really fun for me. This has been a really, a big treat for me to be interviewed by you and talking to you. I appreciate it a lot, Julia. I do too, Jane. And I can't tell you what it means to me that you want to work with us on the California oil issue. Yeah. I do. And I admire you and have, feel very, very blessed to have been able to have this conversation with you. I just think you're an extraordinary human being. Thanks and keep that power on.
Okay. Okay. We'll talk soon. Thanks. Okay. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Okay. First podcast completed. What I have to do now is call my mom. I've got to tell her about this. Her name is Judy, by the way, and she's 89 and, uh, well, I hope she takes my call. Hello. Hello. Hi. Hi, mummy. How are you? Okay. Can you see me? Okay. Yes. Can you see me? I can see you and your blue. Mom, did you get new glasses? No, I can't form my other glasses.
Yes. These are great looking mom. Thank you. Mom, I talked to Jane Fonda today. Oh, wow. I think I have a new, really good friend and I am not kidding you. I think that we became friends in this conversation. She's an incredibly interesting woman. And I think you would really like her. Well, she has done some things. I don't even know where to begin because it was really such an exciting
conversation. Actually, I do know where to begin. So I showed her my senior yearbook page because do you remember I put a quote on my senior yearbook page and it was from Lillian Helman. I asked her if she would read it and she did. She read it aloud. She must have been so touched by that. I mean, you're so touched by it. That's incredible. But what she said was, this is a better quote. And she pulls a book out and she reads the following from TS Eliot's little getting.
We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. That's so wonderful. Can you talk about where I started? Like in your mind, are there remnants of who I was when I was young now? Oh, absolutely. Because there was a direction that you had innately. And it was sort of both improvisation. And it was what happened to you when you became a character. When you were playing and you
would be improvising, it was completely believable. And I remember when you were like five and we were, you were sitting in the back seat of the car and you would be having a conversation with Mickey Mouse. And it would be not just a little pastime. It got to be, and I'm not saying it was a loose nation. It was something that you were creating and it had mass to it. By the way, I remember being in the back seat, playing Mickey Mouse. I think it might have been Mighty Mouse actually, if I recall.
Not to split hairs. But I do remember having an epiphany thinking, what if Mighty Mouse fails? What if he's got something to do and it doesn't work out? So I was sort of rewriting something. Anyway, I don't, it's stayed with me ever since. Right. Well, that's very interesting because, I mean, I think all play is about life. Right. Don't you? Totally. Yeah. I think it's wonderful. All right, mommy. I have to say goodbye to you now. I'm being told by my producers that I have to say goodbye.
Well, I guess you have to listen to them and I say goodbye. Oh, now I'll also say I love you. I love you too. Very much. Very much. Bye. Okay. Bye. There's more Wiser than me with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content. Subscribe now and Apple podcasts. Wiser than me is a production of Lemonada media created and hosted by me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. The show is produced by Chrissy Pease, Alex McCohen and O'Hall Opez.
Brad Hall is a consulting producer. Our senior editor is Tracy Clayton. Rachel Neil is our senior director of new content and our VP of Weekly Production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Stephanie Whittles-Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer, Paula Kaplan and me. The show is mixed by Cat You're and Johnny Vince Evans and music by Henry Hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Charlotte Christman Cohen, Ivan Kriyev and Kegan Zema.
And of course, my mother Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser than me wherever you get your podcasts and hey, if there's an old lady in your life, listen up. Hey Wiser than me listeners, we want to hear from you. By just answering a few questions on our listener survey, you can share feedback about show content you'd like to see in the future and help us think about what brands would serve you best and even better. Once you've completed the survey, you can enter for a chance to win a $100
Visa gift card. The survey is short and sweet and will help us play ads you don't want to skip and keep bringing you content you love. Just go to lemonautomedia.com slash survey. Lemonautomedia.com slash survey. Make sure to check out our brand new Wiser than me cross-body tote bag. We put a lot of thought into creating it and are excited for you to see it to start shopping head over to Wiser than me shop.com.