Ep. 882: Planning Your First Alaskan Hunting Adventure with Steve Speck and Mark Huelsing

cool ideas on that front. We last week talked about planning an epic Western hunting adventure, and today we are going north to Alaska for the ultimate, the Peak, the pinnacle of all hunting adventures. Alaska. How to plan your first Alaskan hunting adventure. It's something that so many of us dream of, so many of us want to do, but maybe have been intimidated by it or unsure of how to approach it, or maybe thought it was cost prohibitive.

Many different obstacles stand in the way, I think for those of us in the lower forty eight when it comes to going to Alaska. But I have been super lucky over the last handful of years to get to go up there twice now. And what I've discovered is that to a large degree, it's it's way more possible

than I ever realized. And so today we're going to talk to two people who've got even more experience than I do when it comes to playing these kinds of trips, and that is Steve Speck and Mark Helsing from Exo Mountain Gear. And they came to mind for me as the right guys talk about this because they just finished up a really cool project all about planning and executing

and documenting epic Alaskan adventures. This is called their Experience Project. They, between the two of them and a handful of other buddies and folks they work with, did a four person caribou hunt in Alaska, then a gosh, maybe three person I can't remember how many guys did it, but a multi person moose hunt in a different part of Alaska, and then two of them went and did a mountain goat in South or mountain goat hunt in Southeast Alaska.

So they had this wide array of Alaskan hunting experiences. They filmed it all, created a terrific video series. But then they also broke down in detail everything they did to plan for the trips and then how the actual trips went. They've got gear reviews and discussions and strategy sessions and stories and all sorts of great stuff on their own feeds there and their website over at the Experience Project. So I'm not gonna try to cover all

that ground here today. Today it's about high level stuff. Me and Steve and Mark talk through everything from you know, why go to Alaska to who is an Alaska hunt right for? You know, how to tell if you're ready or not. We talk through costs and planning considerations. We talk about, you know, should you go DIY or guide

it or use a transporter. We talk through a bunch of things about, you know, preparing physically and mentally for this kind of adventure, what kind of conditions to be ready for you know, some of the key gear considerations, and a bunch more along those lines. This one for me was inspiring, exciting, and super informative, as I definitely am hoping to go back to Alaska and do more of this, so highly recommend this. If you ever hope

to go to Alaska, listen to this episode. It will help you plan it, prepare for it, and it will definitely inspire you to stay up late at night daydreaming

about the Last Frontier two. So that is the main gist of this episode, but we also have a little addendum that will be added to the end of this kind of a part two of the podcast, because if any of us want to be able to Alaska and have these incredible wild experiences in this incredible wild place, we need to make sure that Alaska stays incredible and

wild and open and public and healthy. So there are thriving wildlife and fish populations and wild open public lands for us to go out there and experience in the month in Alaska. Unfortunately, as I have been learning more and more here recently, is not as picture perfect and

unthreatened as you might imagine. Sometimes I think in our imagination we just assume that Alaska's way up there, far away, and it's safe from all the other threats that public lands down to the lower forty eight are used to facing,

but that's actually not the case. There's a number of controversial and potentially really significant projects up there and proposals up there that could impact our ability to have all those things I mentioned, thriving wildlife populations, wild and wide open public places, clean water, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I've got my friend Bjorn Dela. He is a lifelong Alaskan resident, a die hard hunter, a conservationist,

and an outdoor writer. He joins me at the end for a quick fifteen minute ish rundown of some of the very most important issues right now when it comes to Alaska and the future of Alaska and hunting and fishing opportunities. So be sure to listen to that once that you know how you can be a part of a positive future for Alaska, so that each never one of us has that chance to get up there someday to enjoy it ourselves, hopefully our kids are kids, kids,

and many more generations to come. So that's the game plan today, guys. It's going to be an absolute banger of an epid. So I'm excited you're here with me. I'm excited to talk about Alaska, excited to dream about Alaska, and we should probably just get right to it. So here we go, all right with me? Now, I've got Steve Speck and Mark Helsing. Welcome to the show, gentlemen,

thanks for having us on. I'm excited for this one as I have personally been spending a lot of my kind of mental daydreaming time on Alaska over the last year. I got to spend about two weeks there last fall, and have already been planning a couple of new expeditions probably for this year. So so super excited about it, and this seemed like the perfect place to end this series that we've been doing over on Wired to Hunt this month all about kind of adding adventure to your

hunting season. We've talked about a bunch of whitetail ideas, we've talked about Western ideas, and there's there's no bigger, batter adventure than Alaska. And you guys, as I've been watching from afar, kind of took that to the next level, it seems like, with your experience project this year. So I got to ask straight out the gate, why Alaska from your perspective?

just so like everything's heightened up. They're so I mean for Mark and I Adventures everything, we're not like species or what kind of coined our own phrase called experience hunters, kind of where the Experienced project came from, and that we're just chasing like adventure and like go give me dial up the adventure dial to you know, one hundred and twenty percent. Let's go do this. And so it's not about the animal as much as like, what, you know, what are the logistics of the hunt? How far are

we hiking in there? What are we dealing with weather and mountains and brown bears? I mean just whatever. So that's what Alaska represents in Idaho, Like, I mean, I've been living here for thirty nine of my forty years and had some amazing experiences, and you can get away from people. Closest thing down here is like the Frank Church Wilderness, which you can go into and just kind of be just have this feeling of isolation. Everything's just heightened.

It's not like you're not like two miles from your truck where you have that kind of safety out if you need it. You really got to you know, you get to train, you gotta be ready, you gotta have your gear dialed in. And Alaska is just kind of the pinnacle of all that for me. And so I've once I started hunting, I was like, I got to figure out a way to get up there at least once a year. What's after my first ship up there?

was way easier than I expected. But then two, I remember that as soon as we got on the floatplane, I was sitting up front with the pilot a couple of guys in the back, and I'm like looking at this plane and there's pieces missing out of the dash and like wires hanging down, and I'm like, is this literally what we're taking? You know, it's a little nervous, And yeah, it was like the first time that I got nervous about this whole thing. And then just the

flight in. I mean I remember flying in and thinking, okay, like we could turn around go home now. That was worth it. Like just the experience of being Alaska, being part of what is such a different way of life in a way up there. I mean I could tell a bunch of stories. We basically stole some stole some guys truck this year, Like this is just the people, the culture, yes, the hunting of course, but like the land.

I mean, it's just such a wild place. And as soon as I did it once, like Steve said, it's a little bit like Heroin where it's like, Okay, how do I how do I get back up here? Like how do I do that? Again? Like it doesn't. I've been fortunate enough to hunt with a bunch of different species and parts of Alaska, which has been cool because we all talk about Alaska. But there's so much variety,

which is another thing. It's like, you know, from southeast to the far North and interior and coastal and peninsula. It's like, there is just so much to experience and explore. And uh, one, it's it doesn't have to be as difficult or as expensive as you think. I mean, it's not cheap, but you know, you don't have to spend ten plus grand to do something, and then once you taste it, it's yeah, it literally is a little bit like a drug for sure.

was just kind of there. But this last time around, I was much more involved in figuring it all out myself, and that you know to your point, Mark, was this aha moment for me that you know, little old meat could do this, and it's it was no more expensive to fly to Alaska than it was to like take a trip to Florida or California or something, and I hell of a lot preferred going to Alaska than one of those spots. So so so, yeah, it was. It was a big eye opener for me this past year.

But I do think there's this other thing that a lot of folks wonder about. There's the cost question, but then there's a certain degree of like experience or skill barrier that I think a lot of people maybe look at. And so that that leads me to this next major question that I think a lot of people ask, which is, you know, am I ready for this? Or or or am I right for this? Am I qualified for this? How?

How would you guys go about recommend, you know, recommending someone think about whether Alaska is right for them or not, or if they are ready or not? How do you think about that?

on there that's probably too much to chew. I think my first hunt out there was a moose hunt, and even that was quite a bit. And then after doing that and then doing a caribou hunt, because a lot of people will have the mindset, well, I'm just gonna go to Alaska once and so I'm gonna hunt the most preferred species, and I think doing something that's a little bit easier to chew is probably a good start.

So like a drop camp caribou hunt a fairly easier hunt than a moose hunt with all the logistics of getting all to meat home and just just packing that and dealing with Alaska. So I do think you need to just evaluate where your skill set is as far as if you're just if all you've been doing is white tail hunting, your whole life. And you've never backpacked, I probably you know, drive out to Colorado and back back. I mean, you would want to kind of take it

in steps, don't. I think weather is certainly a big issue up there in Alaska, down here and even in Idaho pretty casual about stuff like baby sacks and tarps, and we're backpack and up there, So you better have

a four season ted, you better be. That's the first time I ever spent more than like twenty four hours in a tent our first caribou trip up there, you had like forty eight hours stuck inside a little tent because it's sixty mile an hour winds, right, Like, you don't experience that stuff in the lower forty eight But if you came from never backpacking to going full into that, I think it's a lot to take. Sure, certainly some guys can do it and you're gonna you're gonna learn fast.

But it's if you have no experience carabo hunt, maybe I don't know.

So yeah, some of those hunts where it's whether it's transportation, like it's a drop camp hunt or it's this boat based hunt, and you you kind of you have this ability to, like say on a drop camp hunt, either have like a pretty solid base camp to return to because essentially you're just day hunting from there, or on a boat based or lodge based like Kodiak to your hunt,

you have this place to retreat to. Like you may go out and you may be very difficult day hunting, you may get soaking wet, you may be freezing cold, but you kind of have this place to return to. It isn't home, but at least it's something versus obviously like a true backpack hunt where you're just like, hey, it's me and just what's on my back for you know, seven to ten days, Like that's just a different level of you know, risk and skill and what have you.

So I would say, there's like it's all difficult in its own way. And that's one thing to just like anticipate with Alaska and is we're talking about like this theme of adventure wouldn't be adventurous if it all went well, right, Like, so you have to expect, like part of what I'm signing up for with Alaska in particular, and with this idea of like chasing the next level of adventure is getting outside of my comfort zone. Otherwise it wouldn't be adventurous, right.

It's like Steve was saying, like stuck in a tent for hours and hours gear failures, I've never seen like a mental like grind that I've never experienced. Like all that stuff has happened in Alaska at a different level. But that's also what makes it amazing. You know, It's been cool, I think for me to look at like some of the hunts I've been in Alaska and like to your point of am I ready or not, it's been neat for me to realize I wasn't ready to

do certain things. But like over the experience of years, I've built some skill sets, confidence experiences that made me ready and it's cool to look back and go, man, I couldn't have I literally could not have done this ten years ago. Whether it was knowledge, whether it was mindset,

whether it was you know, physical capability, whatever. But it's really rewarding to like just kind of push outside that comfort zone and then again like that's that's the entire point of adventure from my perspective.

I recognize I'm not quite there. I've been a lifelong Midwest hunter or whatever. Can you expand a little bit on things that they can do to build that skill set and readiness level so that maybe in five years or ten years or however many years it is, they could do what we're talking about. Steve, do you want to leave on that?

going to deal with more adversity. So just prepping your body for what, reboding your mind for dealing with those things is something that you know, we talk about, Mark Can I talk about a lot in our podcast, try to do episodes with how do you build mental toughness? It's it's not something that just happens overnight. It's got

its kind of a slow growth thing. And it could be as simple as you know, waking up every morning at five am and going for a run and just starting to deal with like I don't want to do that, but I'm going to do it, or I mean anything just that you don't want to do. We do a thing never year called the death Hype, where we we just pick a ridiculous distance that we go hike, and we got to train for it and that I mean,

it's like going to overhype it. But what that's done for myself over the last ten years of doing it is pretty incredible. Just pushing past I got in think I could hike a hundred miles in three days. You know, I don't think that was possible, but yeah it is. You just train for it and uh you know, block out, put the brain's telling in between your ears. You know this sucks, and so uh yeah, I mean you got

to you need to take some very practical steps. If you've never backpacked, just walk out in your backyard and you know, I mean if that's the very first night, just go camp down in your backyard for a night, blow up your matters, sleep in there, Go out there when it's you know, snowing or raining and cold, and not just when it's convenient, because that's when it's you know, you're not going to get to pick the weather when you're in Alaska. So just little baby steps and it

won't take long, I think, just to get there. Certainly physical trainings. You know that the hunts can be very physical. You're youre's you know, we've done some marks. Very first hunt we did, we killed your caribou eight or nine miles from our base. Yeah, and walk into across that tundra of stuff was absolutely miserable. But you didn't have to do that. We're just the caribou numbers were low

and we're like, well, we better go find them. Some guys are very successful in those sounds, just hunting right around camp and waiting for care but to come by. How don't it mark any other practical steps? I mean, I think it's just like every d would think. You got to start somewhere and baby steps and pretty quickly you get there, whether it's a year or five years. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

and he sent me to the other day. I was like, hey, man, I'm getting together a group of guys. I want to hike thirty three miles for my thirty third birthday as fast as possible. And we're starting at one am. Like, fign me up, I'll be there. Like but those are the types of things that if you never make that decision to be like, hey, how fast can I hike

thirty three miles? Like what would it be like to hike when I'm tired and do it at one in the morning, And that type of thing, Like that's a like fresh in my mind example of if I was playing an Alaska trip with a couple of buddies, Like that's the type of thing I would do. And that may sound really weird, but you don't know, like you could you could have grown up with someone, but you really people change under adversity and like difficult situations and

lack of sleep and physical exhaustion and whatever. And one thing that's cool, like with some of the guys and trips we've done with Alaska, is like you know those people like you know, like what they're made of and essentially like when they're squeezed comes out of them and there's nothing like that. But that's also like to the point that you also don't know what you're like, So you learn about a lot about yourself too by doing that type of thing.

If I go into it and it's if I go in there like I got to kill a mature buck or whatever, I end up you know, sometimes having a totally different experience then if I went into it with what you guys described being like experience seekers just going into like, man, I want to have an adventure and I want to see what's out here and see what happens and push myself and enjoy every different crazy thing

that happens. How would you how would you recommend someone or how have you guys gone into these trips and figure out how to properly set expectations and goals, because I think a lot of people will go into this kind of like you said, like this is my one time trip going to Alaska. I got to kill the trophy moose or I got to kill the trophy sheep or the trophy bear or whatever the thing is, and that maybe that's setting yourself up for failure. Maybe not, But what do you think about that?

have to have a positive attitude. I know that that very first Alaska Moost trip I talked about like I had never done a hunt where I wasn't in control of what basically our transportation. I guess, like plane dropped you off and you're out there and you know everything in Idaho, or you know, I'd done another state surrounding Idaho.

Was like, all right, I'm done with the hunt. I hike out, I get to my truck, I drive away, and we were almost I was like a old rotten five year old, you know, like, what do you mean you can't come pick us up? We're done hunting. And that was a whole new perspective of just like you gotta kind of embrace embrace Alaska. Things move it at their speed and uh yeah, I don't know. I mean, you just gotta stop and smell the roses. I guess the best thing I can say when you're like, hey,

I'm in Alaska. It's gonna be amazing experience, and just set that expectation that stuff's gonna happen. Not everything's gonna go right. I always tell people plan on one day up front and one day in the back end of weather like that's a guaranteed thing to happen. I'd say, on the average, it's probably true. Sometimes we get super lucky, get up there, beautiful weather, get flown in, get you know, the day you're supposed to, get picked up the day

you're supposed to. Other times you sit there. I mean moose hunt we did last year. We sat for basically an extra seventy two hours in a camp at the edge of this lake waiting for the plane to come back because with the winds are too big and the cousin ways on the lake, and it's just you just got to like, well, like I could be sitting at a desk in the office, you know, like this is those worst places to be. But I think setting that

expectation of there was a guy on another hunt. We were on a sheep hunt in twenty twenty two and he was a principal and he had to be back, like he could not he only had so many days off of work and he had to be back or it was like, you know, all hell broke loose on that day and I was like, dude, I would not book this trick. He got out. He got really lucky, Like we were stuck in this camp waiting for the weather to clear, and luckily the guy got out of there.

But it was like, don't put yourself in that position. Should like always tell the wife and kids, like, hey, add a couple days at the end of the trip. That's a big one because if you put that you're on Alaska time once you're up there, and if you have these like very hard constraints on when you you know, getting up there's one thing, but getting back out it's obviously the one that matters the most. And so that's

that's definitely a good tip of plan for that. Yeah, I don't know, I mean, yeah, I think it's just all the life. Just how lucky are we, Like just put a smile on your face, you're happy, Like there's always problems, there's always stuff come up. Having a positive outlook can drastically change. I mean, I'm I know Mark, same as me. Like firm believer and positive attitude has positive outcomes, right, Like if you're upbeat and like, yeah, we're gonna make this happen or this is gonna be

a fun experience. Generally, like when the bad things happen, you're just like ah, you brush them off, Versus if you're expecting a bad experience, and the bad things happen, you go, oh, I told you, you know this is gonna suck. So your mind can be a pretty powerful thing. Yeah.

I guess that his hunters have had is all because they've been focused on like the trophy to success, the results, and they've whether they did or didn't fill a tag, they ultimately missed the experience of hunting Alaska because they were just focused on like especially too with Alaska, like whether it's you know, something on the more affordable side, or you do save up for years and then it's like hunting sheep, Like wherever you're at on that spectrum,

there's there is like this. Oh, I'm I've been dreaming about this forever. I've been saving for this. I'm spending good money. I better come back home, you know, with like my tag filled like that that pressure I think is more natural to Alaska that mindset, but it's a real danger like missing why you're doing it. So there's a balance of like stop and smell the roses at the same time, Like Steve just talked about all that

positive mindset and enjoy the experienced stuff. He is like stone cold set on like no, we will be successful period, right, So it's in the process, like embrace every aspect of it, embrace the adventure, but never lose sight of like you

are there for a mission. Because also that like relentless attitude of expecting success is what creates success when stuff gets bad, Like the first mountain I had a mountain goat hunt up there and we essentially had eight it was either eight or nine days, and the in the area and who I was hunting with, Like it's pretty much like expected to fill your tag, like whether the

quality ability is or whatever. We'll see when people don't fill their tag on the hunt with his outfit or you know, he says, like it's generally because people quit. It's not because they didn't get opportunity. It's because they quit because it's too difficult to stick it out. So a long story short, we're going into like the last night of this eight nine day hunt. I hadn't had a shot opportunity. We have to be out of the field tomorrow, and like way up on the mountain, a

low visibility, you can't see a thing. So I had to wrestle with that whole reality of like what is it like to go on a hunt that I've been truly wanting to do for many many years and that was not cheap and now I'm going to bed knowing we're hacking out here tomorrow, Like I had to wrestle with that, and what what is that like to go do this experience, to bring other people with me, to have talked about it publicly, to you know, have money on the line and all that stuff, and not fell

the tag. And I mean it was definitely like a mental process to come to peace with it. And I don't know what it would have been like to wrestle with that afterwards, because I ultimately filled my tag the next day, which is wild, but I truly didn't expect. So I was like going through that, like I hadn't given up hope, but like in all reality of basically just hunting in the morning, and that's it. So yeah, it's I get the whole pressure of it, I guess, but again, like, why are.

thousand feet from this spot to this spot. It's often very hard to actually translate from at home to what it's actually going to be like there in the field, And for people who've never been there, who've never done this before, it's especially hard even for people that I've experienced, you know, doing Western hunts and stuff. I mean, it's

as you said, it's different. You guys this past fall were on caribou hunts, moose hunt, and a mountain goat hunt from across some pretty wildly different terrain right low river bottom stuff there for your moose hunt, Steve. And then I saw, you know, Mark, you were up there chasing the goats way up high in the alpine. You guys are kind of in that Tundrum Mountain kind of meeting ground there for your caribou hunt. You saw some

wildly different Alaskan experiences. Can you paint a picture for me a little bit for our audience, a little bit of kind of as best as you can what folks should be prepared to experience when they get there, when it comes to this wildly different terrain, habitat and experience on the ground, Because this isn't like walking on the back forward you go sitt in a tree stand in Missouri.

This is pretty different. Could you guys take some turns just kind of walking through what it's actually like there on the ground in some of these places.

you around stuff. I'm always designing and testing prototypes, and like I can basically hike it like three and a half to four miles an hour with a way to pack on trails, Like, okay, four miles if I'm cruising, I can do that in an hour. You can have

to Alaska. Like that's all just gone. Even so when I'm in Idaho, if I'm planning a backpack and route right like, up, I'm gonna hike this trail, go up this finger ridge that comes down, I can look at it and get a pretty good idea of you know, maybe twenty minutes a mile, maybe thirty minutes a mile. If I'm planning in say like, all right, I need to leave boy C at this time so I can get to the trailhead and I can get to where I want to camp and glass by dark. I can

you know, I got a pretty good idea. You get to Alaska, you throw that out the window. Like we were on the Moose Hunt in particular, we got dropped off lake and we're going to hike between two and five miles up this kind of marshy bottom. There's a river going through it. And then like, well, it looks like there's some hills to the side of the river that we can get up in and probably get out of the marshy stuff. That should be easier walking. And you get there and it's like, okay, never mind, the

hill is like neck deep brush. I guess not happening. So you're just literally something that I'm sure a lot of listeners could great to would be duck hunting or something like that. Your you're knee deep in muck with a ninety pound pack on just I mean it was hours to get like a mile. We were moving camp on the second day and it's like we got We're looking at it and it's like, okay, that's gonna take a while, and I pull up on ITX It's like, oh,

that's eight hundred yards. I'm like, that could take two hours just cover that inder dark. I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but it's it's true. And we moved through the country faster than most. So it's definitely. You know, I don't want to like harp on physical conditioning and and being ready for that stuff. I don't want to scare people

away from it. But if you're not ready, you know, if you're if you're saving for multiple years, this is you know, like this is your like you know your budget only allows to do this one hunt, this one time. Don't let your physical ability set you back. So definitely take training very very serious. And you may not need it, but worst case, you're just in better shape. But generally every hunt I've done, it's going to be like physical condition is a huge part of it. What Mark was

saying on the mountain, goat hunts. So the number one reason people aren't successful as they quit, right Like they just get tired and they throw in the towel. So it's it's it can be very very physically demanding. That But like I think if you're from like Oregon and Washington, like hunting Roosevelt Elk, you used to hunt really brush the country. You don't get that in Idaho where it's just a sea of alder brush and stuff up there.

That it's just a whole nother level. Yeah, the first caribou hunt we did that Mark was talking about, like walking through eight miles of the Tussix tundra of stuff so fricking miserable. Or the ground is hyeah, you got like eighteen inches just humps and heaves everywhere, and you don't know if you're going to fall into them or not. It's I don't know, I don't know how to put it in perspective. It's just it's I mean, if you know, if you do, if you went out to idahoud a

really tough backpack. I've hunted every square inch of the state pretty much. There's everything I've done Alaska is exponentially harder than what I've done here. And this is a rough, rugged state here, and I know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

or something. So we make this plan where it's like, all right, these three guys are to stay where they're at, keep glassing. The other three guys plus Justin the cabman. So four guys we're gonna cross, and so we're gonna drop down and like a cross the bottom and then come back up this other side. So I was in the group of guys crossing.

And then soon you weroise, as soon as you wereise, you took them off. You shouldn't have taken them off. You got to put them back on. And like you're falling your slide and you're stepping in holes. There's way more micro terrain than you expected. Blah blah blah blah blah. So I'm doing all that with these guys, and ultimately, at the end of the day, we caught U through

these cariba. We kill the Cariban. What I didn't know is all the other guys who sat back on that hillside were like watching us, waiting for us, and just going what are they doing? Why are they going so slow? And it like became this joke of they have no sense of urgency, Like these carab right here and they

have no sense of urgency. Meanwhile, we're down there like going as fast as we can, working as hard as we can, and it's just it's I would say, take like, as a rule of thumb, take what you think you're capable of in the lower forty eight and at least half it, but like more often it's like a third. Right, So if you're like, oh, I can hike three miles an hour where I hunt, it's probably like if you're doing a mile an hour in a lot of areas

of Alaska, like you're cruising. So yeah, like perspective on like what you see, how much ground you can cover.

stipulations there. But do you guys have any thoughts there for people as they're trying to make that decision, because I think that's another big one. People when they're looking, they're looking at I have a certain set of experience, but then I also have a budget and you're trying to balance all that kind of stuff. So I don't know, have you guys had any thoughts on that that have changed over the years.

lower forty eight. We're like very protective of this basin you hunt it or something I would highly highly recommend yet, like some kind of connect personal connection to what you're doing up there, versus you know, if you just find a you know, Google Search some outfitter and do a drop camp or do a fully guided hunt. I mean there's good ones and there's really bad ones. We hear

the horror stories all the time. There's Yeah, it's like I had a friend of ours book The Stone sheepun up in Canada and you know, this is like a seventy thousand dollars hunt that's absolutely insane. Gets up there and they hired the guide that was on them the day before the hunt. I'm sure whoever it was, like, but we're supposed to be the guide, quit or whatever. They're probably in a tough spot, but you're like, you're spending seventy thousand dollars a guy who's hunt, you're your

guide was hired the day before. It never been in the country, no idea where the sheep are. So those types of things you know that exists up there are first moose hunt we did at the It was an air service place where you hire them. You don't really get a they just drop you off or they want to drop you off. You know, they're showing hunters in and out. They can you can some of them. Most of them have an option where they can provide the gear and food, or you can do it yourself. I

always do it. When I've done those times, I've always done it myself just so I can control. You know, you don't know exactly what they're going to give you, but we were just cattle. They were just shelling hunters in and out as fast as they could. They didn't care about your experience. It was a pretty pretty miserable experience from that customer service side. So it's like, I'll never go with those guys again. But there are good ones.

There's ones who they don't overbook themselves. You know, they all a lot of them, will, you know, they want to maximize their profits, right, so they're doing as many hunters as they can. Well they you you get two or three days about whether all of a sudden there's this domino effect and you're you're stuck out in the field because they've got teen other groups of hunters and they're trying to prioritize who's getting out and not. So those are the ones you want to do your best

to avoid. And that's where hey, you know, reach out on wherever it is and talk to somebody like, yeah, I went with this company last year. They were great or no, I went with this company, they were you know, don't go with them. So that's that. I think that's probably the easiest first intro into Alaska is hiring one of those air service companies versus a total di y thing just because they're you know, you generally there. They should be. They're motivated to have you be successful. I mean,

because they want happy customers to report back. Some of them, some of them don't care, some of them get you know, there's so many people that want to do it. They can just have people have bad experiences and they're still booked up the next year, which is you know, just how it goes. But yeah, I think it's your good intro point to get up there and do that. Like our caribou hunt was that we've done that twice. The first Moves hunt was a drop camp pape hunt.

able to offer you any sort of hunting services. So like a good example would be the place we've hunted in Kodiak Island. It's a lodge based hunt. They are just a transporter, Like we are staying at their place there, we get on their boat and they transport us, you know, across the water to a place that we got fully self guided whatever. But that is important for people to understand,

and like good questions to ask as well. Is they legally like if we kill a buck and come back to the lodge, they legally can't do anything like with your deer. They will help like provide packaging for example, But like just little nuances like that, Like if you start talking it doesn't matter what the species is, but you start talking to like a transporter, it's like, hey, what what will and won't you help me with in terms of taking care of my game or getting it

in or out of the field. Like they can do that as a transporter, But do they provide any place for you to say, cut up a caribou? Or package caribou or do any of that stuff when you get back to the field. Like so those are some of the nuance things to look at. And then, like Steve said, some of these drop camp services where it's like, hey, they provide a shelter, they provide food whatever. I would ask questions on what that means, like what type of shelter,

what type of food? In general, they're going to drop you off with a giant rubber made bin of mountain house and like a bag of onions and a bag of potatoes or something like. It may not be any food you actually want to eat for the whole week. So sometimes it looks like it's easier logistically of like hey, I'm doing this all in thing. They provide camp, they provide food, they provide whatever. I would really look at is that worth the cost and is it what you want?

It may be much better to say, hey, I just want to fly in here, you know, I just want you to transport us, but I'm going to bring all my own gear and everything else. And then on that note, again, like a nitty gritty thing is ask questions, especially for a flight based hunt, on what is the weight limit and understanding if that's when you do or don't bring your own gear as well, because most of these flights are going to have like a very strict weight limit.

And it's not a joke. You your person stands on a scale. All of your gear and everything you're taking into the field will be put on a scale. And there's literally situations you could go in and they say, okay for you guys, for this flight. You can have a thousand pounds a year. If you're at like one thy and twelve pounds, they're like, hey, take twelve pounds out.

Like so just little stuff like that, I mean, you know, just to not be caught off guard on details like that, Like those are the types of questions to ask and things to look at and things to understand.

that kind of stuff. I guess, so final kind of expectation question or preparation I guess all these are preparation questions. But there's one big, kind of dark shadow elephant in the room in the back of many people's minds when they traveled to Alaska for the first time, which is bears, brown bears. Steve, Yeah, Steve, you had one heck of a trip there, Chason Moose. Wow. First off, incredible, But what would you guys share with people about your experiences

dealing with that? You know, again, a lot of us have had grizzly experience and encounters in the lower forty eight around those parts of the country, but it's it's different up there in Alaska. Two specific things. Number one, would love to hear your thoughts on just how you dealt with that mentally, best practices for being safe in that degree of bear country. And then finally, everyone loves to hear opinions on bear defense, your preferred weapons, spray whatever.

Can you walk me through that?

Winds blown that way, they run away from you. That's generally been my Alaska experience on some caribou, other caribou haunts she hunts, the bears are afraid of you. You're You're just mindful. I'm always gotta you know, I always just go for a pistol, have it ready. I'm admittedly I don't think I'm like a great pistol shot or anything like that. Like I'm probably dead if something charges me.

of your surroundings when you kill something. That's where probably ninety percent of the conflicts happen is at that kill site where you've got a carcass sitting there and a bear comes in, like on kodiaktors like basically, get the deer cut up and get out of there. If you you know the instances where bad things happen is they you know, you kill the deer, maybe you hang it or it takes a while to find it. You get

there and a bear's already on it. So that's when you would definitely want to be kind of more aware of things. Just once once you got an animal down, I'm pretty sure you look at it, it's like ninety percent of the cases happened in those and then yeah, you're random stumbling into a sic cubs or something. But I think it's just it's to me, it's mostly between your ears, Like the actual danger is probably pretty low.

I'm probably more more afraid of going to like Wyoming and stuff like that, where those are grizzly bears that are very aggressive, they've not been hunted, they have no fear of humans. Up there in Alaska, they're you know, they're afraid of you for the most part, except on our bus hut they could just care less. So they were those are big, fat, salmon fed, happy brown bears and they didn't really care that you were twenty feet away.

So yeah, and that was mental. We were. Everybody was on edge on that hunt quite a bit because it was you know, when we're sitting up on this hill and your glass in this river, Like I mean, at any given point, you're seeing between five and twenty bears on the river, and you're like, we're going to go hike right through the middle of that. So I like,

there's confidence in numbers. I don't know the exact stats, but I believe if you go from like even to one hunt, like a majority of bear attacks happened with a single hunter, you go to two people, it produces that by a significant amount and I think if you go to three people, it almost goes to zero percent chance. So you're going to get charged when you got three guys grouped together. So I do like when we're in really heavy bear country, I like to, hey, let's make

sure we got to at least two guys. Try not to be solo. If you got three, like, odds are that nothing's gonna happen. Yeah, or if you if one guy's get in charge, you got two guys there with pistols that are you know, can help.

you know. I wasn't on Steve's movie that was an exceptional amount of bears, but I have seen on almost every trip I've been to Alaska in different parts of the state have seen bears, and I've never had a scary encounter and have just observed that they want nothing to do with you either in general, So just that awareness piece to make sure you're ultimately like aware of your surroundings and not spooking, surprising, you know, just being

a little bit aware but don't be afraid. Like definitely the first time I wanted Kodiak, like I grew up hearing about Kodiak brown bears, and I was like, they're around every corner, you know, And I think the density is like one per one point something square miles. And the first time I saw on on foot, it was probably like we were on this hillside, we had just killed the buck and we were looking down on the spottom probably six hundred yards away, and I was just like, oh,

there's a Volkswagen or of something down there. I just saw this giant mask moving and it seriously looked like a giant vehicle. I was like, I was like, Oh, that's a big old bear. And then you do see like the prints and the tracks and the scat and it's it's impressive. But at the end of the day, I would I would much rather be in Alaska with a bunch of bears than Montana, Wyoming, et cetera. And then yeah, I think a side arm is generally the way to go, and I tend to align with Steve.

I mean, I've owned a couple ten millimeters. I like the idea of them, I don't shoot them well, and so I'm just really honest with myself of hey, I would rather have something more controllable, something quicker, something I can shoot better under a quick scenario. Potentially one handed have more capacity et cetera, et cetera than the like babblistically optimal ten milimeter that it's probably just got to spray everywhere, to be honest, So yeah, I go with

the nine milimeter. And then even going back to group size, that's a great, great thing. There's some of the trips, like the Mountain Goat trip we did, we had four guys total, and only one of us had a pistol. I'm not saying that's what you should do, but I

do think there's massive safety in numbers. So if it's a situation where it's like, hey, we truly are hunting together, there's you know, two, three, four of us, We're not splitting apart there is a rifle in the group, and then like, sure, is it smart to have a guy or two with a pistol?

And I know this depends on what you're hunting, so I guess give me drill in where you think appropriate, But a few thoughts on, you know, making a good pack decision when you're going on a carebrew hunt or a moose hunt or something like that in these kind of extreme conditions, tough hiking through stuff, I think that's a big thing. You might be carrying heavy loads but then also having to crawl on all fours or falling over tussix. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on.

So I certainly have have experienced bad pack experiences and then very good pack experiences. No one better ask than you, guys. Can you give us a little bit of thought, a little bit something to think about there?

for you. So something that's you know, I mean, I've got my criteria when I'm designing packs of you know what, what are the necessary things it has to have, Like, it has to have a hip belt that fits you all right, So we have five different size belts that we have on our Exo packs to make sure you get proper fit. There. You want the foam wrapping around the front of the hip bones to help kind of distribute the weight has to have an adjustable torso, right,

so get the shoulder harness dialed in. If it's like a fixed torso, that's non negotiable, Like that's just going to be really uncomfortable.

contact with your body all the time. If your feet are killing you, there's nothing that's gonna shut you down. I don't care how mentally tough you are. Like when you're covered in blisters and your feet are hot, like that stops a hunt pretty quick. Pack kind of falls right behind that, Like when you're when you just got your twenty thirty pounds, it doesn't really matters. I'm gonna

shut you down. But once you go kill something, it can certainly be a if you've experienced it, it's going to be a limiting factor if you've had a miserable pack out, like, oh, I'm we're not getting more than a mile from camp, because it's gonna be absolutely miserable to pack that out. We're a good pack, can you know, take away like ninety percent of that?

Because if you're flying in and getting dropped off at Moose Camp and you have ten days to hunt, you're never carrying close to ten days where the stuff, right, Like, in all reality you're doing this drop camp hunts, you're probably never staying out overnight away from base camp. You could probably hunt with a day pack if you want to so just don't when you think of Alaska, you think of days of hunting if it's a fly in hunt or a you know, a drop camp hunt, a

you know, boat based on lodge, based on whatever. Like, don't equate days to the biggest pack and look at your actual demands of how many days are the stuff if I'm carrying, Like on my goat hunt, we went out for a days where the stuff super coold weather gear needed a large pack. Caribean we were backpacking moose hunt.

You guys were backpacking, but like say that twenty nineteen caribou hunt we did, or Kodiak stuff like, you just don't need a ten day pack just because you're there for ten days, if that makes sense.

it's like hind quarters, front quarders, backstraps, cenderlines. I don't think you have to take neck meat anymore, ne could rate me. I think you can leave on animals. So they're very like, you know, not super strict there. Get up to Alaska, it's very very strict, and really understand it's it's certainly not a state wide policy, so that really dictates certain things. If you're you know, bone in, you're just gonna you know, you to you know, oversized game bag so you can, you know, put all the

meat in there. Doesn't really matter. The game bag is not that important in my opinion when it's bone in, because the meat's on the bone, it's got a structure already. If you're boning out, then you need game bags that are kind of tall and skinny. In my opin, you don't want something stretchy because when you're putting that in the pack, the meat just turns into this big ball. It's big lump of meat's really hard to strap down. So I always tell people like tall skinning game bags

that don't stretch. Imagine you're making a tube of sand that you're going to strap on the pack into a train and hike with. That's the goal. You always want meat kind of in between the shoulder blades, high and tight, is what I say. Never have meat hanging or weight hanging down below the waistbelt. And then also don't have it off the back of the backpack. You want as close to your back as you possibly can, kind of between the shoulder blades. Have that weight up high so

it's transferring down into the hips, not hanging low. You know. But you see pretty calm, and you see like a guy's got elk quarter and then he puts the elk head off the very back of the pack. And that's the worst thing to do, right because you're just putting all that weight further way from your back. It's pulling back on you. It's got leverage. You want to put that head like on top of it. So again, like I always just envisioned that weight transferring down into the hips.

I don't mark anything else.

which is terrible. Or the way you position it with a load, it might like want to rock and get up towards you your way. So yeah, just bracing it with a trekking pole a stick and tying that down is really helpful. And then it's really cool to shoot something big and until you're like in Alaska and like in the brush and have to like you get that thing through trees and I I really should have shut

that smaller one. Yeah, So that's fun the other thing just this isn't pack but gear wise, as I would say, unique to Alaska is don't skimp on shelter. Like we've talked a lot, like if you're a new hunter, new to backpack hunting, and you're the guy who we talked about before, is going to go from being a white tail guy to go into Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, whatever in elk hunt and the Rockies like go to Walmart, like save money, do what you can, just go get experience.

Don't worry about having the greatest shelter. I would say, if you're going to Alaska, ignore all that stuff and like get something that's built and built well. I've had actual shelter failures in Alaska. You know, one hundred plus miles away from civilization, so it's a real deal. So

don't skip on shelter. And then just to touch quickly on a really common question with Alaska, we get a lot on gear is like down versus synthetic, and there is like if you look at a lot of gear lists or hear from like a lot of guides and outfitters, they're going to say you have to go synthetic everything. I really feel that that's not necessarily bad or wrong, but I feel like that's that guide and outfitter buying themselves insurance so that they're hunters are not like putting

themselves in a bad situation. So I'd just say, if you have, if you already have decent down gear, and you have some experience, and you understand in the limitations of DOWN and how to take care of it and protect it, don't feel like I have all this rad down stuff and now I'm going to Alaska and I have to shed it all and get synthetic. I don't think that's the case at all. Just understand a little bit about what are the limitations of down and like

how to use it. Again, I just I've noticed the over emphasis on synthetic, which again I'm not saying is wrong. I'm not saying you shouldn't get synthetic. I just think that's guides and outfitters, you know, wanting ill prepared, misunderstood hunters to like have a safe option, which I get. But yeah, if you have down stuff, don't automatically assume you can't take it to Alaska.

you know, notorious for for weather. But that brings up another good question, which is and actually you know I reached out to you Mark about this this last year, which is how what are some ways to keep my stuff dry in a place like Alaska. I was hunting in southeast Alaska last year and thinking, all right, how am I going to manage to keep all this stuff dry?

What are the different layers of dry bags or different tools I can bring along with me to make sure I'm not soaking wet and cold up on top of a mountain. Can you can you walk us through anything you guys use to manage moisture and rain and inclement weather to keep your stuff usable, dry and warm.

that shell. I'm kind of putting an outside pocket. But that's kind of your ultimate insurance. Don't like, we don't don't rely on a rain cover. It's kind of pointless. We want like everything in dry bags. When uh, we had this hat, we got lucky on the very first caribou trip up there something I never do. I leave base camp and just got your pad and your sleeping bag all set up and good to go. Well, we we were out hunting and also on the winds kicked up and we got back and our tent was laid

over and luckily everything wasn't scattered across the tundra. But ever since then, it's like, if I'm leaving the tent, I'm packing up my stuff in the morning, I gonna throw all my clothes and everything in a bag and kind of make sure it's at least pretty heavy. You know that if there's like there's been times where I like literally put a rock inside the dry bag to

i'd wait to it so it didn't blow away. Just in that kind of you know, you just need to be, yeah, to treat your shelter like it's your I mean it is your wife lying out there right like, yeah, you got to treat it completely different than I would if I was in the lower forty eight where you know, I just I guess, I guess I've been backpack up for so long down here where it's just like, E like something terrible happens. I'm never more than four hours from my truck. Even I got to hike to the

midle of the night. It's not a big deal up there. It's not an option. So you really want to make sure you're dialed and taking care of stuff. And it's just a lot of just be proactive, right instead of reactive, like, Okay, I'm if something's soaking wet, I'm not just gonna throw in my pack and leave on my pack all day. If the sun happens to come out, I'm gonna lay everything out and let it try out in the sun before you know, because you just never know when that

next storm is gonna come. So just keeping maintaining things, keeping them dry as you go, so it's not just kind of this progressive it's wet, you pack it away, wet and get it and then all a sudden you don't pull it out until later that night and it's wet, you're sleeping bag, you add condensation in the morning, and yeah, the kind of a domino effect there.

a drop camp, like say this caribou. You guys are going to go to your first drop camp caribou hunt. There's a group of you, there's four of you. You kill a caribou on day one or two, but you still have five, six, seven days in the field, Like what are you actually doing with that meat?

Like we always say that people tend to pack their fears, and we're usually preaching against that, like you don't need all this extra stuff. Don't pack all the fears and all the contingencies and what if At the same time, with Alaska, I would think through, like, Okay, if you truly are remote and you're one hundred plus miles away and that plane's not coming to get you, like you are on your own essentially, So again, don't be afraid, but like just think through some of those things of

like how are we going to handle X Y problem right? Again, not being like paranoid scared, but just making sure you have your bas is covered.

wetness and moisture too, especially there. I've got a friend who I was hunting with this past fall, and he's an Alaska resident and he does all of his hunting everywhere in Alaska, you know, from the Brooks Range to southeast in extra tuffs and knee high extra tuffs, and so he was telling me that's that's what you gotta get, Just just take your extra tuffs. And I'm thinking, oh

my gosh, not hiking boots. What what is your guys' take on boots in general for this these these kinds of trips, but then also managing moisture, crossing creeks, boggy swamps, fording rivers, all that kind of stuff, and maybe not just boots, but boots plus supplemental footwear.

it was amazing. Way I get. We hiked in on and boots and you're just you know, you spend so much time and effort taking the boot off across the stream, putting them back on, trying to jump across the stream, trying to find a path, trying to find it like a dangerous like, oh there's a log I'm going to try to, you know, slap the crocks on, walk right down the middle the stream. It's pretty awesome. And you're getting like an ice bath the whole way. It's like

pretty fantastic. Yeah yeah, boots are so I uh. Part of the Experienced project, we did a bunch of gear kind of tight delve into the top mark what like twelve gear items and I did. I did a boot one. I think I talked for at least an hour on my philosophies and I'm a little bit fucking the trend of the hunting Like stiff leather boots. I just stated for me, they don't work. There's a lot of downsides

and drawbacks to them. So if someone wants to really kind of take a deep dive into boots, I suggest watching that video because there's a lot of just within a boot adjusting. You know, first of all, take the stock and soul that comes with it, throw in the trash, go buy an aftermarket quality one. The performance across the board is going to be better. No understanding socks and how you can adjust the sock thickness to kind of

custom tailor the size of the boot. There's a lot of things you can do, and you really just you have to get your boots and break them in and try them out before a hunt, because you're just you're gonna find out what works and what doesn't and get like to buy a pair of boots and like hike around your neighborhood. No, like you got to go get like off trail, side hill, downhill to find all those things. And again that's like number one thing is gonna shut

you down from a hunt. I generally like synthetic boots. There I haven't found. I really try five to ten pairs of boots a year. I have yet to find one that's like this is the boot that I'm gonna wear, this is the perfect one. They've all got drawbacks. Synthetics generally aren't going to be as durable. What I like about them is they're gonna dry out. So you get up in Alaska, you get you know, ah, other boots

super soggy, wet. It's gonna take even if the sun comes out, it's gonna take days to dry that thing out, where synthetic can dry out in hours. So that's my general preference. Everyone's different, said, I don't have a perfect answer other than have crocks and use the crap out of those things.

almost anything. I think it's the supplementary stuff that's like do I need crocs, Do I need hip waiters, Do I need chest waiters? You know, Like it's it's that extra stuff of swampiness, water crossings and all that.

I mean I've done goat hunts and sheep hunts and a modern like if you had like a I think some of the companies do, like one to five on flex like I use it two and a half to three essentially on like the most deep, tough train there is. So yeah, it's at the end of the day, it's a situation of one understand what you're heading into and then to find what works for you. Don't listen to

people because all of our feet are so different. I mean, there's certain things you can understand, Like if you know you have a narrow foot, some of these European brands like class Sportiva and et cetera like kind of fit that, well, you know you've a wide foot, you know you're gonna

have to go to a different boot manufacturer. You can, and we talked about this like in your video, Steve, but like they're just the last of the boots, which is essentially the shape of the footbed of the boot, and even doing simple stuff like take that insol out of the boot, like Steve talked about before you throw it away, but like literally just take the insol out first, Like if you got three four pairs of boots, take all the insoles out and like step on those and

you're essentially looking at the inside shape of the boot because you're looking at the insul and going hey, like one of these is gonna look like it fits my foot better, and one's not right. So just a little stuff like that. So boots are the most important thing in all of like whether Alaska hunting or where elk hunting or anything where it's like you covering ground. Like,

boots are the most important thing. It's also the most annoying thing, right, Like sometimes it takes years and a ton of money and try and stuff on to figure out what works for you. And then sometimes you do that and you find the boot and then like a year and a half later, you realize the manufacturer changed it, discontinued, it did whatever. So like for me, I just bought a fourth pair of a pair of boots that have done everything for me, and they happened to be on sale.

I literally saw him yesterday. I was like, fourth pair, let's go, you know, because I know, like I could just for the next ten years, I could pretty much go do anything anywhere in that pair of boots. And like I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's just it's never gave me a problem, you know.

you're hunting, where you're hunting. So if you're having uncomfortable feet, to start to address it, whether it's the boots too stiff for it's not you know, there's too much flex or there's too much room inside the foots or your foot sliding around getting hot, or you got heel lift or something like that, Like just keep tweaking that until you know your feature never kill you if a good tip, like you get back to camp, the very first thing you want to do is, oh, my feet are kill

me and you take these boots off, Like that's a good sign to me that I mean there's obviously like the bigger ones like full blisters and your feet are really tore up. But if that's the first thing you want to do and get back to camp, like keep looking, keep tweaking, there's gonna be there's a combination of boot, sock and sole out there that you're gonna allow. That's gonna allow you have very comfortable feet. We have, yeah, I mean very like I don't have feet issues anymore, right,

Like they're just comfortable, good to go. But I like I'm doing that caribou hunt and like a basically a mid trail running shoe and that's what works for me. But that's just my experience. Yeah, but it's not you.

with from durability? And that's where it stops. Like the rest of that's just so up to your feet.

the rising waters and everything. What was your quick take on that?

so I got confidence. And then yeah, on the Cariboo trip, the waters, you know, it was like a record high flooding that came through like highland spring run off, and we had to wait for it to go down, and we were all nervous as hell, because we had a couple of sharpest turns coming up and like, well, full sin, let's see what happens. And they were awesome, made it

absolutely fantastic. We had the alpaca rangers and one I think it's called the forger boat from a packer and yeah, put all the meat, all the gear, every you and they're the only thing on top of the raft was strap the antlers and PLoP your body downside of it. And they were incredible. Yeah. To me, it is like open my eyes, what else can like what can I do here in Idaho? Or can I start utilizing this one access some country? I didn't think it was possible.

Like we had been sitting there watching this river and just full on trees and like everything go down. It's like what's around the corner is it can be a

big sweeper and are you caught? And I'm like, we have everything in the tubes of these pack crafts, like all the me oliver gear, oliver everything, So you're literally making these decisions of like Okay, inside my zipper, chestwai or pocket, I have my inReach, I have a lighter, like I have a little bit of food because you know, maybe those three guys get passed and I get swept up and then I'm soaked and I'm bailing off, you know.

So just like thinking through all that stuff. But the end of the day, like it was one of the coolest things I've ever done. Like those moments and I don't remember what I told GC, but like those moments where you're doing something so amazing, like you almost just want to like scream, like at the top of your

one is like this is the coolest thing. Like we're just floating down, four of us, floating down this river and the Alaska Mountains and just like Carivous antlers be bopping, you're getting splashed from the waves, Like, yeah, I think it's told to you, Like I knew this was gonna be awesome, but this is like exceeded every expectation of everything it was. They're so cool and to your point, I'm very experienced or inexperienced. I have no idea what

I'm doing. And even loading, I mean had four guys, four rafts, four characters, so all of us are loaded with four full cariboo, all that meat, all of our gear, all of everything, and those rafts just like ate it up like it was impressive, really impressive first.

to everything. And so it's like when you go out there, you just feel I don't know, you just feel alive, like the bear hunt the moose with all the bears, all the guys where we like when we left that, we're like, nope, never again, and everybody's like there was something there, like can we go back again? Like it sounds crazy, but when you're you know, you're just out there surviving. You're you're experiencing it. You're not thinking about, you know, some email or text or trying to make

it like it's just everything's gone. You're just focused on the moment in front of you. I think it's just so rare these days where we're just got so much being thrown at us from so many different angles and bounce and work, family and you know, just social media or whatever the heck, it's just yeah there the second amount of there. I think that's one thing that I do. We talked about is it's that you're sometimes you're miserable, but you just got to like take your mind out

of that moment. If I say you're stuck in the tent like that, within a week of being home, you're gonna wish you're back in that tent and you know, so it's like it's one of those little mental things to do, like, Okay, this sucks, but it's also amazing at the same time. So just taking it, you know, like put a smile on your face. How lucky are we? Like,

or we're in Alaska, we're suck in the tent. It's fifty mile an hour winds and raining sideways, but like there's kind of obviously my family's number one thing in my life. But as far as like that's a pretty awesome experience. So just enjoy it.

you know, like it re energizes me. And I don't I don't even know how to say this without sounding like really cheesy or corny, but I feel like it would be because I have the capability to do it, like even physically, I feel like it would be a big waste not to do it. Like there's not just these giant trips, but like just little stuff like I've just man like to take health for granted, to take capabilities for granted. And I mean it's a sacrifice to like go do this stuff like even on my family

like time away. But again, I feel like it makes me better for when I am home and anymore. It's just like, man if I can physically go do something, And again, it doesn't have to be Alaska, but it could be like hiking the Grand Canyon, could be you know, a random oh hunt, it could be hunting deer, you know, like in this more adventurous way like you've been talking

about in the series. If you can do it, to it, because there's going to come a day where you can't like there is you know, So for me, it's just I'm trying to battle with that with like work and family and everything else. But like, you have to choose to to make it. I don't even gonna say priority, Like you have to choose to make it happen. If you don't, Like you may find yourself one day wishing you could, but you no longer can.

shirty and stuff. All kinds of stuff, and then each of those three trips, the Caribou, the Moose, Mountain Goat, they're all filmed, so there's a whole video series out. You can find everything on the XO YouTube channel. And then there's a separate website it's the dash Experience dash project dot com that has like blog articles, podcasts, videos, a bunch of stuff. And then yeah, at the end of the day, we're also super easy to get hold of,

So if people have questions, let us know. That could be us replying and answering your question directly, or there's been times where people have emailed something or like that's a great question, we should do a podcast about it or a video of it or whatever, So just feel free to shoot us an email as well. Just go to XO and go to contact. But yeah, there's there's a lot there.

with Bjorn. All right, Bjorn, thank you for hopping on here today for this quick kind of mini addendum addressing the future of Alaska, because we just had this great conversation with Mark and Steve about planning an Alaskan adventure. But I thought it would be appropriate that while we're thinking about someday going to Alaska right now, we should also be thinking about the things influencing the future of

this incredible state. So you, being a lifelong resident, Diehard hunter and someone who cares about this place a lot. You seem to be the perfect person to help us with that. So there's a lot going on right now, Bjorn, What for you stands out as a couple of the very most important issues that hunters and anglers need to be aware of up there in Alaska right now? What is what's at the top of the list for you?

anglers of what's going on and staying cued in. You know, you can start at the top of the Alaska you can just kind of go down by strata and look at the whole, the whole, all the different things going on, and some of the you know, things that are grabbing the news the most don't concern me as much as a few issues. And those issues that concern me in part it's you know, personal, it's also what I kind of recognize is the biggest threats I feel like to just the.

to happen. Like if there was drilling, it might just be done out of spite versus something that's you know, economically feasible. So for me, I don't I mean, I try to pay attention a little bit what's going on there. But a little bit south, a little bit further west is the proposed Ambler Road two hundred and eleven mile road that'd be constructed with taxpayers dollars to service an

unknown number of foreign owned minds. And I think that's really important to just understand that this is the taxpayers are taxpayer's money, and these are foreign own minds.

gonna be spur roads off every which direction. And basically the road would supposedly end two hundred and eleven miles west of the Dalton Highway, but there's really no reason not just extend it all the way to the GC and then down to no you know, the cots Well to a little north of Coots View, then too the

Nome road system. So basically, you know, talking to some people, it's just like it's the it's the final nail in the coffin of you know, North America's a big wilderness basically, and so for us, for hunters and hunters and anglers, we you know, we have everything to lose and nothing to gain from this project. It's a it's supposed to be a private road. It's not going to be open to the public. That might change thirty years down the road,

but you know, it's just pretty much guaranteed. I mean all the Environmental Impact Statement from the last administration made it very clear that it was going to negatively affect sixty six villages that rely on food out there, you know, fishing game. It's going to affect negatively affect caribou and other species. So there's there's been a lot of arguments, you know, there's been a lot of propaganda, and I think it's it's key to understand that these are foreign

owned minds. It's also key to understand that these minerals are not staying in our country, and that's really important. It's like, these minerals are going to be ship to be refined at least most of them, that's not all of them that are understanding at this point, to Asian refineries. They're going to enter Asian markets. There's no guarantees these

minerals are going to be sold back. So essentially it's like, you know, it's it's I'm not going to call it a you know, robbery, but it's it's also an opportunity though, it's you know, this, this would be a great opportunity for President Trump to be like just say no, I'm not going to allow these minerals to go to a foreign owned mining company to foreign markets. And so I think it's a great opportunity and I'm hopeful that you know, a lot of these executive orders just kind of I

don't know if it's a lot of bark. I just want to stir the pod as much as possible and then you know, build, build back up or is it just to burn everything down.

going to happen. So after a bunch of hunters and anglers and many other folks submitted comments and sent emails, made phone calls, all that kind of stuff, Like I know, through the hunters and anglers for the Brooks Range campaign, I think like thousands of comments were sent and I think I remember seeing many thousands. So hunters and anglers have fought this issue already. We thought we had it

taken care of. And now yeah, non partison exactly. And so the unleashing Alaska's uh, you know, Extraordinary Resource Potential Executive Order, I think that's what it was called. It specifically called that out as something they want to put back on the table possibly, right. So, so that's why this is back on the radar, and to your point, big opportunity for hunters and anglers to once again stand up and say, hey, not the right place, not the

right mind. And you know the administration last time around, Uh, there's precedent for them saying no to some stuff because they did say no to the Pebble mine, right, so why not do it again with this one. This is like you said, this is an opportunity to show support four hunters anglers in the wild places we care about, right.

And like you said, the western Arctic Cariboo herd has dropped by more than fifty percent I think I saw in the last twenty years.

anglers there but it's definitely something to think about. A very similar situation where taxpayer dollars are going to build the road for private enterprise and very likely I don't know what the status is where those minerals are going or the minds involved, but it's very likely foreign owned.

in Southeast Alaska are really worried about. But the biggest issue, other biggest issue, if I had to say, two issues to really think about for hunters and anglers, and this is also just selfishly my biggest things, it's it's ambler

and then it's the future of the tonguests. One of the executives or part of Trump's executive order was to do away with a roadless rule, and and you know it's hard to exactly know what he was what he means by bringing logging, you know, more logging and people in Southeast Alaska aren't against logging, even the people who really want to keep.

But no one in Southeast unless you know, you're completely an anomaly, is against logging. But we just don't want to go back to all of a sudden not having protections of our last great stands of old growth for us and have them you know, clear cut for POLP.

You know a lot of people would like to see a very viable canber industry, but we just want to focus on you know, wildlife restoration work being done, you know, not every tree being cut down, more selective logging and then you know, more of a focus on second growth logging and stuff like that. And so you know, when we hear when I hear that, you know, been part of the executive order, you know, getting rid of the

road this rule. It's just you kind of have this PTSD from what happened in the seventies, sixties, seventies eighties here where just you know, in some of these zones, people kind of almost lost their ability to hunt. You know, like where I hunt, I can shoot sixty er a year, and then you know, like venit three, they didn't, you know, just in the large part because of massive winners and big clearcuts coupled with lots of wolves and black bear predation.

You you know, it was hardly a deer season for decades.

it is pretty damn special. I'd hate to see those last few roleless spots we've got, you know, lost, because we're not getting any more after that.

into future information about this stuff? And then number two, are there any resources you'd recommend for people to you know, start letting our voices be heard on these things or connect or engage in any kind of way.

And they're working on the West is sitting a too, but I think it's just just a lot of good information that's condensed in a way that you can sit down Saturday morning with a cup of coffee and spend ten minutes instead of scrolling all over you know, the news and getting lost in all the doom and just kind of keeps you educated on what's going on for big conservation issues. And we'll give you also, you know, pointing in the right direction to comment or get involved if you want, so.

hopefully sometime get up there and experience it ourselves. I you know, as I have mentioned already earlier in this episode with the other guys and on my own, my experiences in the Alaska have been so so impactful, so powerful, so special, and I'm hoping and praying and willing to do a lot of hard work to make sure that my kids have that same chance, and your kids and hopefully many more generations that come. So thank you for helping us do all that stuff.