Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon, Welcome to the.
Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, I'm joined by Bo Martona to discuss his greatest lessons learned and best practices for planning an epic Western hunting adventure. All right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light, and today we are continuing our adventure series, but we are kind of expanding the scope a little bit. The first three episodes we're talking through very specific whitetail hunting adventure ideas. Today we're
going to kind of look at a region. We're going to look at the West, how to plan a Western hunting adventure, and really we're just discussing topics that could be applied to a white tail hunt out west, but also an elkon of mule, deer hunt, pronghorn bear, whatever it is. If you want to add some adventure to your hunting season, doing one of these bigger Western trips
is a great way to do that. It's a great way to expand your realm of possibilities, to learn new things, to try new things, and to have a wild experience. So that's the plan for our conversation. And my guest is someone who has specialized in that kind of thing for more than a decade now. This is Bomartnic. I think a lot of you guys know who he is. He's been on the podcast before. He's a great white tail hunter, communicator, media podcast guy like me too, from
the East, but has increasingly been adventuring out west. He has a podcast and you know YouTube channel and everything that in many ways has focused on you know, how do you go from the East to the West? The East, East meets West Hunt podcast is the name, so it's right there in the title of what he's doing. It's kind of what formed the foundation of his platform. And so he personally has done these things, tried these things,
learned about these things. But he has also interviewed probably hundreds of people about these types of adventures, planning these adventures. So he has his own experience plus that of some of the very best in the world. So who better to talk to about planning this kind of thing yourself than Beau Martonic. So that's the game plan for today.
I want to address one kind of elephant in the room though a little bit, which is that this is something that Bow and I briefly touch on in our conversation, but as the allure and the appeal of heading west has become more and more publicized through media storytelling, podcast, TV shows, originally now YouTube whatever it is, right, there's a lot of people talking about going west, trying your first out hunt, trying your first mule, deer hunt, pronghorn hunt,
whatever it is. In recent years, there's also been a little bit of backlasher on that because of the increase in hunting pressure or the increase impact on wildlife and public lands and the landscapes. And that's not unique to hunting. That same kind of pressure and concern has been popping
up when it comes to mountain biking, rafting, camping, anything. Right, if you're out there on these landscapes, especially shared public lands, there's going to be challenges and figure out how do we share these things, how do we use them in a responsible way so that we can enjoy them ourselves but also make sure that other people can enjoy them and make sure that the resource, the natural landscape and wildlife there can thrive too, and then finally making sure
all of this is possible for future generations as well. So that's like a tricky thing. It's a tricky line to walk. That's not something that happens just by accident. It certainly doesn't happen by us going out there and just taking whatever we can take ourselves and hoping it
hands out okay for everyone else. I think that an inherent obligation that each one of us has if we are going to go out there and recreate on these wild Western public landscapes, if we're going to go out there on an elk hunt or a deer hunt, or a backpacking trip or a trout fishing adventure, whatever it is that is there for you to do that. It's an incredible American inheritance that we have these wild public landscapes.
But it also comes with the responsibility, and that responsibility is to do so as low impact as you possibly can. Follow the rules and regulations, don't trash these places, treat other people well, treat the wildlife well and with respect, hunt smart, hunt carefully, and then also stand up for these public lands. Be a voice in support of our
public lands and public lands systems. Speak out when people try to trash them, try to sell them or transfer them, or pay them over, cut them down, drill them up, whatever it is. There are a lot of threats to our public lands, waters and wildlife right now. There's a lot of stuff going on. We talked about this with Hal Herring a few weeks ago. We're going to talk
about it again here in the near future. But if you want to go out and have these places to enjoy for yourself, your kids, and your buddies and your kids' kids, it's not just going to happen by default. It's going to require we be a part of that future, that
we be a part of that solution. So I would urge you to stay engaged, to keep paying attention to this stuff, to sign the petition, send the emails, make the phone calls, be a part of this because we have un believable thing in these six hundred and forty million acres of federal public lands. There's many, many more
state public lands as well. There's a lot of incredible places out there that support huntable populations, fishable populations, great camping, great backpacking, rafting, biking, camping, hiking, whatever your thing is, man, it's there, and it's pretty damn unique to the United States. We're really lucky. But we got to make sure we keep it that way. That's on me, that's on you, and I hope you will stay tuned because we will definitely be talking.
About this more.
So with that out of the way, let's get to my chat with Bow about planning an epic Western hunting adventure. All right with me now? Is Bo mar Tonic Bo. Welcome back to the show.
Mark, Thanks for having me back on. It's good to see you.
I really appreciate it. It's great to have an excuse to catch up. And we're talking about something here today that's near and dear to both of our hearts, something we both love, something we've both experienced. And as you know, I've been doing this series here this month on Wired Hunt, all about kind of bringing an adventure back into your hunting season, and the last three episodes have been explicitly,
you know, specific whitetail adventure ideas. Today, I want to kind of widen the aperture just a little bit more and kind of explore some more regional adventure, logistics, ideas, mindsets, things to plan for, and these being things you could apply to a white tail hunt, an elk hunt, a prong horn hunt, or whatever, because I think any one of those things is a hell of an adventure for a white tail hunter, you know, a self identified white tail first guy or girl can still go and do
that kind of stuff. So I got to start here, bo, Why go west? Why West?
To me?
The reason why I went west, and the reason why I believe a lot of people do, is the landscapes are just in the places that you can go to or just incredible places that. I mean, there's there's beautiful places all over the Midwest, the East Coast, the Northeast, all those different places, but there's something about the mountains, the plains, the open country, the thick country, just everything about the West is what really drew me to it.
And then also the different species that you're able to to be able to haunt, whether it's elk or mule deer or antelope or anything like that.
There's plenty of opportunity there.
But I think for the most part for me, it was the place like that, the element of place more so than anything else that drew me to going out west and trying something different.
So a lot of that was the same for me. But for a lot of years, all of that allure seemed out of reach. It seemed like I wasn't qualified or or educated enough, or or well armed enough, I guess to do it. I don't know if you did you feel like that at some point in your life as you dreamed about these things, but but maybe thought it was like, oh, geez, I can I actually do that?
Did you did you struggle with that at all? And did you learn anything along the way when you finally kind of crashed through that barrier that opened your eyes?
Yeah? It.
I remember watching it as a kid on TV and watching the watt L's of the world l hunting and doing this stuff, and I'm like, man, you know, I wish I could do that, And no one in my family had really done that prior, so I didn't really have anybody locally to learn from like I did for deer hunting, So it was just this like mystical thing. And you know, now there's a lot of great resources out there that you can plan things, in my opinion, a lot easier, but there was it just felt like
so out of reach. I was like, man, I don't know if I have the time or the money to be able to put forth and do that. And I quickly well, one thing about my personality is I'm definitely an overthinker and over analyze and I like to plan things out and go through it. But there's also a part of me that at some point I get to a point where I just make a decision with it just kind of on the fly, and it's like, all right, I'm doing this.
And it really came from for me.
I had read Cameron Haynes's book Backcountry bow Hunting, and I was reading about the adventure and him backpack into the Eagle Caps and all this cool stuff, and I was like, man, that sounds awesome. Like I love I love camping, I love hiking, and I love hunting. Like this seems like a pretty good option. He says that anybody can do it, so I'm gonna I'm gonna try it.
And it really came to one having good good friends with both my brother and my cousin that I talked to and was like, Hey, do you want to go elk hunting?
And They're like, yeah, sure, let's do it.
And really just putting it on the calendar and then figuring out the rest of it from there. And now I will say some of that is a little bit more difficult today with over the counter tags not being as read available, especially in the elk world. But nonetheless, the same concept can be applied with setting a date to it and and then working backwards of like, you know, figuring out what the goal is and what you want to do. And for the most time, most of the
time you can figure out how to do something. And depending on your current situation, is like what that time horizon looks like that you should give yourself and and I shouldn't you know, I don't want to say. You know, say if you have, you know, a week of vacation from work and you're you're ready, barely paying the bills and you're going through it and it's July and you decide you want to go do a hunt this September, maybe that's not the right time to put that time horizon.
So I guess narrowly or so soon, but you know, to be able to plan it out. But I think it depends on each person. And I think the important thing is setting that time. I mean honestly, Mark. It even comes back to and from, like the business standpoint. You were one of the people that gave me advice when I was going to do the podcast full time of your like, Hey, I set a date and work towards it, and that's what I did and ended up
making that a reality. And I think that applies a lot when it comes to these adventure style hunts.
So you set the date, you got some buddies together to do it, you said, all right, I'm finally going to do this thing, and you did. And now you know, it's been so many years later, you've done a whole bunch of it since, Yeah, what's the biggest assumption that you had going in that has proved to be incredibly false? Like what did you have really wrong coming into it? Then now you look back on being man, I didn't see that coming or I underestimated that thing. Does anything stand out like that?
When it comes to hunting the mountains specifically, I underestimated how big they were because I had never been west of the Mississippi prior to that, and it was like an altitude and I was just like, man, the physically, the physical demandingness of a backcountry specific, like mountain hunt is pretty demanding, and that was something I definitely underestimated when I'm you know, I'm looking on the maps and I'm marking glassing points and I'm doing this, and I realized,
I'm like, I don't know if I can get to that spot. There's a cliff there, and I don't love heights, So trying to figure out the navigation on that that was like a big eye opener to me. But the other the thing I think I overthought going into it was the gear side of it of just trying to dial in everything when I didn't know. I didn't know what I didn't know as far as like what's going to work and and what my style of hunting. Maybe I'm not gonna like this, you know, backpack style of hunting.
And for me, like I think, I think one of the biggest barriers, especially when it came to like starting out with trying a backpack hunt, was I probably should have started with.
And I think for a lower.
Barrier to entry is like a truck style hunt, like where you're camping at the truck and hiking in and honestly it's from a standpoint of shooting an animal, I mean, that's a lot of times a better option because you're able to move and cover more ground and check areas
when you haven't been there prior. So I think I overthought that the gear side of it, and like they said, the truck camping style, you don't need as much gear as far as needing to spend a ton of money in tents and different sleeping bags and things upfront to
make you lighter and more efficient going in. But I think really what I learned was it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be, but it was harder in the same respect as far as being successful at it and looking at it from a I'm going to go out here one time and I'm going to shoot an elk Is. It's probably not super realistic, it can definitely happen, but looking at this as a journey of like, I want to commit to doing this.
If this is what I want to do, let's go out there and try it and and not not put so much weight on that. Get going as prepared as you can can be, but you learn so much once you're actually in it and doing it that help you down the road.
Did you ever read that book Atomic Habits by James Clear I have yeah, yeah. So as you're saying this, a lot of what you're saying like directly ties into
what he recommends for forming a new habit. Like a couple of things that help you stick to a new habit build something useful in your life is one, make it easy to get started, and then too, like make sure it's rewarding, like it's being really hard to actually follow through on something and get good at it and keep doing it if you set crazy expectations for it
and then you fail or out the gate. Right. But what you're saying is, hey, you know, maybe you don't need to plan your very first Western trip as this epic two week backpack hunt deep into the wilders. Maybe you should dip your toes in this with something that's from the truck that is also with expectations. Step properly to enjoy the journey and not feel like you have to kill a three hundred and sixty inch bowl the first time.
You go, right.
I think there's probably a lot of people going into it thinking that they're going to cam haignes it right out the gate and then fall on their faces and they're like, whoa this isn't what I thought, and maybe they'd never end up trying again because of that. Is that is that something you've heard a lot of folks going to.
One hundred percent, like I mean, and that was that was me. Like the first trip that I did was I picked the steepest, deepest unit I could find in Colorado to backpack into, not ever having any experience and doing that in the West, and it was it was
a really poor choice. From that, Now I did, I learned, but like, yes, but I wanted, believe me, I wanted to quit and and a lot of times during it, and and we didn't quit, but and and then there's a lot of you know, I'm gonna uh contradict myself a little bit here because I definitely learned a lot
from it that was beneficial. But I think there's value in in making it a little bit more enjoyable the first time as you're going and getting your feet wet with it to see one if you're even gonna like it, or you may go out and have a completely you know, bad taste in your mouth for it if you weren't as prepared or you're getting into it, and then you don't want to do it again, realizing there's so many more opportunities that you can partake in that maybe not
as demanding or or whatever along those lines, if that, if that makes sense.
So so given that bo, if you were to kind of zoom out continuing down this line of thinking, kind of some of these biggest lessons learned I kind of didn't exercise after this last hunting season in which I looked back on the year and thought through like what were all the best moments of my year? And what were all the worst moments of my year? And you know,
what were the things consistent between them? It's like, what were the things that always seem to be true when I was having my best hunts or my best days during the hunting season, and then what were those things that were always true on the days when I was miserable or things weren't going right or whatever. And it kind of was illuminating to me to see, like, oh, there's certain things that were present across every single one
of them. I'm curious for you if you were to do that, if you were to look over all your years now, on all these Western hunts you've done, You've you've had a hell of a lot of great adventures. Now, if you look back on that and try to think about across all of your best experiences, best moments, best trips, what has been consistent among those, what stands out is like, man, this thing has always been there on those on those moments or days or weeks that are stand out.
I think, I think one thing for me that that has I'll start with kind of what has ruined I guess experiences, because that turns into one of the best, the best things with it. And I think a lot of it came down to and this may be it's a little bit unique to say someone that is in our shoes from the standpoint of having more ability or more time to be able to go on multiple hunts and things. But I see a lot of guys that are out there now doing multiple states and hunting, you know,
even with jobs and doing it. And I was doing that when I had my full time job as well. But I think not giving enough time to something to one adventure, Like if I were to look at it, I would rather put you know, if I had two weeks off of work, putting most of that time towards one hunt, versus trying to do too many things or go to too many places, because for me, at least, it takes me a little bit to completely immerse in that experience, disconnect focus on what I'm there to do.
And when I give myself an ample amount of time to focus something, depending on the hunt, maybe that's you know, six or seven days, or maybe that's two weeks, but put it given myself amount of time to really learn the species or the area or whatever I'm doing, and put myself in that, and like when I look back on it, when I have that and I'm like, Okay, here's my set time, it's actually doable to do that.
I enjoy those experiences so much more than if I'm like, all right, man, I only have you know, three or four days to go here or to do that, And then it's like, all right, I'm running the challenges of I need to acclimate to the mountains. I need to I've never been here before. I got to figure out where the el car. Yeah, I've e scouted and I've done this a bunch of times. I think I have
a good idea, but it gives that unnecessary stress. So anytime I can remove that stress from things and really be able to focus on it.
That's where I've I've.
Found the most memorable hunts when I'm looking back on it, is when I was been able to immerse myself and give myself the ability to really enjoy it. Seeing the leaves changing in September as you're there, and and seeing the stage of the the Elk rut. You know, I'm referencing elk hunting a lot, because that's what a lot of what I've done has been. But being able to see those moments and really feel them out versus rushing it to you know, hit a goal or do something
in that regards. That's made those hunts. I wouldn't say miserable, but they've When I look back on a season, it's like, man, I really rushed that a lot, Like there was there was a time. I'll just give an example. It has to do with a white Tail trip. But a couple of years ago during the rout and you're always trying to take as much advantage of the time during the rut, and I was like really run down. I was like,
I need want to go to West Virginia. You starting to feel sick, and I only had like three days where I could do it. I went down there and it was I really shouldn't even have went because it was like I had never I wasn't fully there, I didn't prepare enough to go into it to begin with, and I was just run down and just wasn't having a great time. And it's like, that's not why I'm
there to do this. And I think I think there's a there's a lot to be said about about planning it out and having that amount of time, and and you know, if I've had this, I've brought this up before, and a question that I'll get back is like, well, I don't have as much time as you do. What if I only have five days to make an ill
cunt happen? It's like, okay, well, my like the honest truth of it is it don't go hunt the mountains where if you're coming from flatland you need to act on me because you're really not going to have a great experience. You neither need to figure out how to extend that time horizon or pick a different hunt that fits that mold that you're looking for.
And that's that's that's the truth of it in my opinion.
Yeah, well, a lot of that I think also goes to expectations right, like what you you know, whether it be setting that proper goal or target species or or just setting like what am I actually what actually can I achieve here? What am I trying to achieve? What
am I trying to do? Like like so much of my I don't know, growth or journey in this whole thing over the over recent years has been trying to figure out, you know, how to set goals in a way where you know, I'm still challenging myself and still like pursuing something that's that's exciting or it's going to push me, but at the same time making sure that it's not like sucking the enjoyment out of it too. How have you kind of wrestled with that over the years?
Has that changed it all for you from from day one to where you are now? What's that looking now?
Yeah? It has?
And and again like from the western hunting perspective, And I was actually going to bring this up, was I've it took it? You don't know until you do something, but you learn like a style of hunting that you like to do. And I've even found this with white tails is like, believe me, I love sitting in a tree that's great and it's fun for a period of time, But I like, I love glassing. I've realized I love to glass, it doesn't matter where I'm at. Like I
love glassing, I love spotting stock. So when I'm looking at planning elk hunts, I don't particularly love just going through dark timber. It for miles going over blowdowns and trees and to feel like I'm just lost hiking most of the time because I'm not hearing any bugles.
Whereas when I.
Can hunt an area that maybe has a little bit more of you know, sparse timber, some stuff I can glass a little bit, maybe do some spot in stock and some calling, you know whatever, that to me is more enjoyable. I'm not saying that's everybody. It depends on the style, but for me, I found I like that. So it's like, all right, if I'm going to plan one of these hunts, like I would rather I would rather find a hunt like that that I want to do that I'm really pumped about doing it and excited
about that style of hunting. That that's what I'm going to put my effort into and do that, And.
Like I just haven't you know, it's.
It's funny, like when it comes to whitetails, and especially in my home state in Pennsylvania, I have because I spend the most time here, Like I have certain goals as far as the animal and the caliber of animal that I'm chasing and doing that, but if I find on these like adventure Western hunts, it's more about the place and this and the species than anything else. Of like, what is my experience going to be in that style of hunt that I really want?
And the more that I've followed.
That, the success has come inadvertently with it. You know, I'm still I'm not saying I'm going out there and not putting in the work and trying to be successful at you know, a particular age class or whatever it might be.
But that's not the focal point for me.
As much as it is to have those experiences in those areas in the style hunt that I want, and the more reps I got into that then have become more efficient or you know, better at doing those style of hunts. And I'm still not nearly there as far as I have so much to learn, and even after doing it for ten years and you know, now doing multiple hunts per year out West. It's I've gained a lot of experience in a shorter amount of time, but still learning so much.
And I think having.
That that, always wanting to learn and find that style of hunting that you like is makes it so much more enjoyable for me personally.
Yeah. Yeah, that resonates allow with me to It's funny. It seems like, even though you know, we're both relatively young guys and we've been going out West for ten, fifteen years, whatever it is, even in that short period of time you talked about learning, it seems like there's
so much that's changed already just in that period. Like when I look back on what it was like and when I was planning hunts back in like twenty ten to eleven something like that, it seems like vastly different already now when it comes to certain things, What have you seen that's changed the most? Maybe not with you, like with what you know personally, but just like the whole setting and what's going on out West and how you have to plan hunts now. And I don't know,
do you feel like the pressure is changing? I feel like that's That's something I've noticed in some ways already, just in this short window. What have you seen across across those categories.
Yeah, I think yeah, the pressure which then turns into the tag allocations. I think that that is definitely it. And then also the cost of admission to doing so and getting tags is a lot more than it was.
I remember when ELK tags were four hundred.
Bucks, and now you know there's some states. I mean, heck, I just put in for Wyoming that was to potentially draw a decent unit and put in for the special draws almost two thousand dollars to be able to apply for that tag.
And that's not and that's not all of them.
You can still get ELK tags for that seven hundred dollars range somewhere in there. Don't get me wrong, but I think that the cost of admission, the amount of opportunity has decreased, and then the hunting pressure has has obviously increased as well. But I still think there's so much opportunity there at the same time, it just takes a little bit more of of research, planning and maybe
and maybe changing that instead. The benefit of like when we started is you could find an area and you could go truly to learn it for four years in a row. If you wanted to where now it's really difficult to get a tag two years in a row to really be able to learn it. So trying to find some different things that you want to do or
maybe similar areas that our style of hunting. Like I'm talking about saying spot in stock maybe it's in Montana this year, in Idaho the next year, and there are two different places, but you can find similar style hunts to be able to learn it. But I think that the planning aspect of it is definitely much much more important to it, and because it's just the landscape has definitely changed in those areas most That's what I've seen the most of, you.
Know, something I've gotten to thinking more and more of. And this is something that kind of naturally happens sometimes, but I think it might happen more now is just given how allocation is going to tags and stuff. I'm almost looking at, you know, elk hunting or some of these Western trips almost as like a group endeavor in which there might be one guy with a tag, right, and then a few of you go out there just to help out, right, and it's a fun adventure. Still
you're packing me off the Mountain. Hopefully you're a part of it, but you just might not have a tag on a given year, do you I mean, do you see an appeal to that? I started thinking, Man, I'd be happy to go help my buddy when he draws one. Like it seems like it's like when you're out turkey hunting with friends here at home, right. I love just going out and calling for buddies, even if I already filled my tag. I wonder if that's I don't know
if it's sad that that's becoming a reality. I guess it kind of is sad that's becoming a reality, but it also might be a silver line, like, hey, even if you can't draw, there's still ways to have a great adventure out there. We can still experience these places. We can still you know, go out there and do cool stuff even if you can't afford the two thousand tis dollar tag this year, or you couldn't draw in Utah for a decade. You know, is there is there the truth of that?
I think so?
And I think that's where it really again. You have to look at what your goals and what you're doing it for, and it's like, if you're truly going there for that experience, whether you have the bow or the gun in your hand, doesn't necessarily make or break that. And I think the people that we're talking to typically aren't the people that are looking at things as just a bucket list per se of like oh, I want to check this animal off my list. They're going for
that experience. And if that's what your goal is, I think that's one a good way of being able to do it because you and especially you know, finding a group of buddies that you can that you can plan that stuff out with, and you know, I try to. I have a group of friends that we try to you know, align our points so we can.
Get tags together.
That's the ultimate goal still, but there times when that doesn't work out, and it's like, all right, how can we still enjoy that? And like maybe this is the older that I'm getting, But I enjoy that camaraderie aspect so much more now in that just like camp atmosphere and being there with buddies and working towards a common goal. And I get just as excited, if not more, when a buddy of mine shoots one, like when I was in Montana this past year.
Elk hunting.
Now, we both had a tag, but my cousin had never shot an elk before, and I got to watch him through the spotting scope shoot a bowl and go and recover it and watch him fall over through my spotting scope and just be there for that experience for him. And it was like that was an absolute blast to be able to do.
Yeah. So so I guess taking the next step, given how things are getting a little more difficult out there, there's there's more interest in this stuff, and I should bring up. It's not lost on me that many people will blame people like you and I BO for part of that issue, right, which is a fair that's a
fair critique. I suppose we are bringing attention to these things because we love them and because we think other people would love them, appreciated them, and hopefully the hope is that if you get people out there to experience these things, they not only use the resource and hunt and do that stuff, but then they actually you know, stick up for it and stand up for your opportunities and the resource and the places. But that's a that's
a tour. What I was gonna say is, given all of that, how do you go about planning where you're gonna hunt or how you're gonna hunt differently now you know that it is different in this kind of way. Has it shifted how you choose a productive region or
a starting point? Has it changed your approach now given that you know this is a different world we're in, or is what you're doing what you did a decade ago still basically the same as you're doing now when it comes to picking your spots planning the hunt.
Yeah, So it's it's funny.
The way I looked at things ten years ago was I had my short term, my midterm, and my long term strategy. And again I'm just gonna use ELK for an example, but this can be used across the board with different species, and I'm going to tell you how that kind of has changed a little bit. But you know, I'd have my short term, which was like my over the counter states that I know I could hunt every year. I had my midterm that would take you know, three to five points to draw and be able to get
a pretty decent tag. But it's not Then I'd have my long term states that were like, all right, this is my you know, if I'm looking for a big bowl, like this is what this is what I'm going for, and it may only happen two hunts in a lifetime to really be able to do that, And that's how
I looked at it. Well, the short term aspect has changed where it's almost the mid term now where it's taken more of that three to five years, two or two to five years to get some of those you know over the counter in quotes, tags type tags and units that still have a bunch of hunting pressure and
everything there. So I still look at that and I have those in my planning, and I still have less of the long term stuff because some of those states, I'm just trying to get as much opportunity as I can in that so instead of like shooting for the stars in some of these states, like one state I'm looking at right now to plan is New Mexico, and it's like I've always just shot for the stars every year for the best units and didn't care because it
was just like a fallback type of plan. Where it's like, now I need to kind of work that into my regular cycle if I want to hunt.
Elk every year or every other year and plan it.
Now there's the other side of it of where I've been able to draw some decent tags in that mid level the last few years and see how much better the experience is, and it's like, man, that's that's pretty awesome and to and I don't really want to go back to having fighting you know, ridiculous crowds and doing that. So I've kind of looked at it too of And this is because I have I've had enough experience elk cunting where I don't feel like I need to go
every single year to get those those reps. And I've learned enough that I know that if it takes me a couple of years to get back that, I feel still pretty good about it. Where maybe I'm going to fill that in with something that is more reachable in a different species. Maybe I've been looking at antelope punting,
which I've never done before. I've looked at you know, different white tails across different regions to be able to fill that in, or tagging along with buddies or going to different places to fill those those you know, short term adventure goals. So I can still make sure that I'm doing something like that every year, but it's it's just changed. You've had I've had to get a little
bit more, I guess open minded and change. It's not as is not as cut and dry of a strategy as it used to be, where it was like, all right, here are my six states I'm applying for, and here's short term, mid term, long term. It's kind of things are floating around a little bit and and god, I've I think you have to be open to trying some other different things that maybe aren't as popular or you know whatever, to to have those opportunities and continue to
have those opportunities. But I think it is important to look at it in the respective.
You don't want to.
If you're if you're just wanting to draw good units l cunting per se and it's going to take you six seven years, Well, if you only l count every six seven years and you've never and you've never really done that, by the time you get that good tag, you're not going to know what to do or have those lessons in those experiences of doing doing it. But all of those other trips, even the white tail trips, there's a lot of the similar planning that goes into it.
You know, emergency gear that you have in your truck in case something happens. Building a hunt plan, so you have multiple areas picked out in case this area has a bunch of pressure, this area has no water, or whatever the situation might be.
A lot of those skills.
Translate by just going out of state or out of your area and do that that can help. I don't know if that that made a lot of sense, but for me, it's it's an ever changing thing, but it definitely takes looking at a lot of options and having a plan, Like I have a spreadsheet where I have, you know, kind of the states that are deadlines, build out and kind of like all my points on there in different areas, and I'm always looking at it ahead of time to be able to plan.
So one, I guess one more step beyond that then thinking a little bit more hunt strategy sort of you you alluded earlier to, you know, backpacking versus truck hunting and how you can move around, right, That's one thing that I've wondered, and You've talked to more people than I've talked to about this in recent years when it comes to going on an elk hunt these days out
there or a meal deer hunt or whatever. You know, for a long time, it was always hiking as far as you can get far away from the roads, get to the deepest, darkest back country. But now everyone is a mountain monster. Everyone wants to be campaigns, everyone wants to go in ten miles, sixteen miles, twenty miles to
get to the darkest hole in the Elk Woods. Have you seen yourself or have you been hearing from more folks finding that maybe maybe that's not working as well as it used to and there's maybe there is there becoming more opportunity close to the road, or is there an advantage to moving around with the car or or not.
I guess I'm curious from your perspective and others, where do things stand with what's the best way to find pockets of opportunity now, given the fact that there's more intro people are more able to do this stuff and more aware of how to get into the mountains and be in good shape and can get to those spots.
Yeah, I'll just say yes.
So over the last especially in the last really since covid is, I've really changed that perspective and I've seen it where there are more people that are hiking way back in and more capable to do so and have that opportunity.
And then there's still the people that are probably.
Never going to leave the roads and are going to glash from the roads or maybe hike in a mile here, and there's a gap in between of of those those places. And I'll give you I'll give you a real example here this previous year in Montana, I was there hunting and our plan was I have the stuff to backpack in the truck, but I also am ready to you know, stay at the truck. And we were finding just a ton of side by sides and local people that were running the roads, glass in the pockets from the roads.
We're like, all right, let's let's go back into this area. Let's backpack in. And luckily we didn't take our backpacking stuff the first time. We're just like, let's go check it out and if it's good enough, we'll make the long hike back out, and then the next day we'll carry in our stuff to do it and get in there. And it was like every peak I was seeing spot and scopes, you know, way back in worse than it
was next to the road. And I'm like, man, like, what are we gonna do as far as as hunting with hunting this and what we ended up finding was there were these pockets that he only had to hike in a little ways. But if you I looked on the maps and it was like, all right, what are the areas you can't see from the road but aren't really destination places to hike back into. And that's where we ended up killing both of our bulls this past year.
And Montana was like, that was what we did, was found those gaps where the people weren't And sometimes that's a floating scale of of learning it on the fly, and I think that's where it's employed when you're building up a hunt plan of areas to check out is having multiple options, having the deep options, having the mid options, and having the close options they're available, and seeing because a lot of times you don't know, and year to
year that can change a lot. The area we were hunting, my cousin had hunted it the years prior and was like, man that uh, He's like, I didn't never saw this
amount of pressure in here. And they were all you know, us non residents get a lot of craft for it, and they were all residents that were that were there, and it was like we had to adapt from what had worked in previous years, and it was like, all right, that that was where what we found was like all right, that mid level And then I've I've seen that in other places as well as like finding those those mid level spots and that maybe that maybe you still have
to go in a little ways, but maybe it's on the backside of private or you have to loop around. It's not next to the hiking trails, because if there's a hiking trail it goes nine miles back. Even though it's nine miles, it's easier for someone to walk then if you only had to go a mile down this steep drainage and up the other side. And I think
that that is something that I've learned. But being having the ability to be mobile and come back to the truck is like, I love the allure of backpack hunting, but from a success standpoint, being able to move and adapt on the fly with having a vehicle to help save your legs a little bit to move to different spots is really really beneficial.
So continuing down that line of thinking and when it comes to like trying to figure out, you know, being able to get to the spots you want to get to what's realistic, what's necessary, what's not. You mentioned earlier one of the biggest things that was like an adjustment for you was was the reality of the physicality of it, Right. I think that's that's a huge thing for a lot of people trying to do this for the first time or trying to take it to the next level, is
how do you make sure you're physically ready? And I'm curious about what you've found has been the reality of what's needed, Like what level of physical fitness is necessary?
What do you find as a worthwhile focus area. I mean, there's this one like there's like the pinnacle, there's like this elite mountain athlete kind of thing that we see in the media ton now, and then there's like the opposite, which is the guy who drives around the side by side and steps out five feet and that's all they do.
What realistically is something that someone should aim towards being able to do what's the kind of training, the kind of physical fitness level that you've found is helpful and that folks that are relatively new to this stuff should focus on. Because I guess this is a very roundabout question. Some people might look and say, like, man, there's Cameron Haynes, I'm not Cameron Haynes, or I'm not Bomartonic or I'm
not whoever. I couldn't possibly do this On the flip side of those guys who spend all of their time doing bench presses and think they're gonna crush it in the mountains and then they've got great pecks, but they can't make it up the side of the mountain. Uh, where's the middle ground or where is the reality there?
Yeah, that's it's a that's a that's a big question. But I'll start it with saying that I've never I've never been on a hunt and wished I was in worse shape, So like to start to start with that, I will.
I will say that.
But at the same respect, if you have two hours in a day and that that may be a stretch to say that you're you can put towards, you know, planning a hunt or doing something. To spend all two hours of that in the gym is probably not the best. I think consistency is important more than anything when it comes to movement and doing things. And and I've done a lot of the fitness programs that were super high intensity and and you know, I felt in really great shape.
And I I've turned a little bit a buddy of mine, Todd Bumgardner. He's a trainer and he worked with me on a different approach.
It's more on.
Consistency and doing things that still involves strength training and involves doing things like bench press and deadlifts, but it's also just moving a lot more. And it's like, okay, if you can move seven days a week, sometimes that might be a thirty minute walk to be you're going to get yourself in a pretty good spot doing some rocking, having a little bit of diversity in there, but it doesn't have to be two hours a day of that training to make myself feel capable. And like it came
down for me, it was like all right. That first year, like I said, I struggled on the fitness side with it, and I've also realized there's always going to be a level of struggle with the fitness no matter how good is shape you're in. So it's like get yourself as good as you can, but definitely don't miss out on
the other things that you should be preparing for. Like for me, it was like all right, shooting when how can I take advantage of this opportunity when it comes there, Understanding the animal behavior in those areas, doing that research on that, and like, I think a lot of people put so much time into, you know, researching units and stuff, which I think is really good, but you know, typically I had heard Dustin Rose say this before about sheep hunting,
and it was like, if there'sn't allotment of tags, there's going to be animals there to be able to find.
It's up to you to be able to find them.
And I think understanding, learning the area that you are planning on hunting once you make that decision, the what they're doing, the type of landscape where they like to bed, where they like to feed, you know, worry maybe be able to see them at doing the scouting. Planning that kind of stuff is equally as important as the physicality of it. And uh, yeah, that may be I kind of diverted there a little bit, but I think fitness
is super important. I don't I don't want to relax on that, but I think being more consistent with it than overthinking the intensity and the.
And and making that be a barrier to do it.
And I think there's there's a part of it where like myself, I thought I was in good shape and I went out there and figured that first time, and it was also because of the unit and stuff that I picked. Now it's like, all right, you don't have some of that time. Maybe you look at some areas or some species that don't require hiking up to eleven thousand feet and through this steep stuff to be able to have that experience, get your feet wet in it, and then you know, evolve through time.
When it comes to when it comes to fitness, Yeah.
So the the the I guess the other part of this there's like your physical fitness, and then is your mental fitness, which sometimes might be just as important. I think on some of these Western adventures. What have you learned yourself about getting your head right, your mindset right, your attitude right on these trips? And is there anything that you have learned over this ten plus years or whatever it is that has changed how you approach that.
Yes, yes, that's that's a great question. The first thing that I'll say is when it comes to the that's a you know, a buzz word, you know, mental toughness, And it's like, how do you define like even actually
being able to, you know, get more mentally tough. And I think there's a lot of that in that consistency that I talked about, whether it's working out or maybe it's shooting your bow, and that you when you set these goals and even when things aren't uh, I guess it's it's even more important when things aren't convenient to be able to do so just making it happen no matter what.
You know.
One of my goals this winner was shooting my bow every day in my basement, even if it's one shot, to be able to do so. And last night was an example. I was like, I'm like, man, I forgot to shoot my bow today. You know, it's like all right, went down, shot a couple of arrows, focused on it, did it. And I think that repetitiveness of creates that mental side of it that does help you in those situations when things don't go the way that you want
it to. And I think having as much prepared as you can and again as you can to will help reduce those stressors in there. When you reduce stressors, that helps you get through those situations when when things do come up, because ultimately things are going to come up now. One thing that I've changed is I put a lot more emphasis on both food and sleep. And we hear that grind and grind and you're on these hunchs, gonta grind. You get to you get through it, and it's like
you are grinding. Don't get me wrong, you're hiking a lot. But I've put a lot of emphasis on the sleep component. I have learned that in my everyday life from when I was doing the two jobs and trying to side gig the podcast and my regular I wasn't sleeping very much, and it was like I wasn't as efficient as I could have been because of I didn't have the energy.
Or the focus to be able to do so.
So like it's like, all right, if you have ten days to be able to hunt, day five, you're just absolutely struggling. Yeah, could you really maybe go checking out these betting areas midday? Maybe you should just take a nap and uh be able to do you know, take a little bit of a break and not feel I used to feel guilty of like I need to be doing something, I need to be doing something productive. It was like, Nope, I'm gonna you know, get some rest here.
And it's like, especially if you're in a spot where you're glassing or doing something where the first light in the in the last light are super important, maybe sleeping in isn't an option, but getting some rest in that middle of the day time frame can help you there. And just putting good food in your body instead of just eating like complete trash with it, because your food and your gut health has so much impact on your brain and being able to make decisions and.
For me, the.
Most rest that I can be and having good food and helps me make clear decisions when things aren't going well, because you're gonna run into situations where you're not finding any animals. You war out, maybe you roll your ankle, you have some sort of adversity that causes you to be like man, maybe next year, and it's like, no,
I mean think about it. All the people you've talked to from a white tail standpoint or any type of hunting, and all the people I've talked to, the most consistent thing I see of successful hunters, no matter what species, is that they don't quit and they if they haven't a lot of time, they go to the end.
There's so many examples of when.
You can shoot something on the last day and being able to stay to stay in the game until then is super important. And again that example in Montana from the hunt last year, it was day ten, the last day I.
Could be there.
I was running to I had these two younger guys that seemed to be following me around everywhere, and they went and cut me off on a stock and I was really, you know, bummed, and I was I was starting to get in a bad mental space, but I
was like, nope, just stay here, keep doing it. They ended up bumping the elk ran into a position that I could put a stock on and I killed the elk, And it was like on the last day of the hunt and putting together being able to stay in the game for that instead of being like, you know what, I'm going to head back and white tail season opens here in PA, Like I can get back for that instead of missing the opening day.
Like you can start to you can start to create.
Things in your mind on why a situation isn't good, And like what happens to me a lot is when my alarm's going off in the morning, they're in hunting season, and I can create like thirty reasons in my head on why I shouldn't get up and why I should stay there a little bit longer. And I think, and the more you do these things, the more you learn that and are able to get over some of that stuff. There's going to be a struggle with it no matter what.
But I think again, going back to recapping that sleep or just rest, putting good food in your body and trying to eliminate any of those additional.
Stressors that you could have, will help.
You be able to mentally get through some of those stuff situations.
I want to drill into those two things a little bit more so food specifically, how are you approaching the food you eat on these trips? What are you doing to make sure you're eating good food that's giving you the fuel you need physically and mentally? Like, what specifically are you doing, How do you plan that out? What do you like?
Yeah, so that's taken. That's taken a while to get that right. The first thing I learned is when you're doing something, especially a extremely physical hunt, you need more food than you think you do, and you're not going to be as hungry. You're gonna want to leave food in that bag. I put everything in a gallon ziplock
bag and that's for each day. And it's like, there's so many times I don't want to eat some of the stuff that's in there, and it's like, I know I need to because I've done it before where I've got myself sick because I lost so much weight because I only had planned for twenty five hundred calories a day and it was like, all right, on a normal day,
that would get me through just fine. But when you're hiking seven, eight, nine ten miles a day in rugged train with twenty thirty pounds on your back, that you're burning way more than that and you can't really fully recoup that amount of calories. But I set a calorie goal depending on the physicality of the hunt, and that's kind of where I start with. And I try to focus on proteins. And I'm not a I want to
put this out there. I'm not an expert in this stuff, but this is just for me what has worked.
I put.
You know, I put an emphasis on protein because on the recovery side of it, I eat a lot of fats in my normal diet, so that's what I want to put fats in there, and maybe a little bit more carbohydrates that I normally would help give me a little bit of that energy. So I'm having something that I eat, you know, for and I eat throughout the day.
I mean it's like almost every hour that I'm eating, just something keeping yourself fueled, not waiting until you're starving to be able to eat, and that helps me keep going. And then as far as the actual specific food I'm bringing now, most of it is pretty healthy from the per se of what you can do from a backpacking perspective or like you know, in the form of bars
and different snacks there. But I also have learned that I need at least one thing a day that I just like, it doesn't even have to be healthy, that's just something that mentally I enjoy, something salty typically that I.
Can treat yourself a little bit.
Treat yourself and give you that that And I almost have like a goal of like I don't want to eat that first thing in the morning. I set that, like, you know, that mid afternoon timeframe of like that's what I'm going to eat that particular thing.
And I play these.
Mind games with myself and I've learned that my body doesn't do as well. If I get up in the morning and try to eat a big breakfast, say I have like a Heather's Choice meal or Peak Refuel meal and this big, you know, thousand calories first thing in
the morning, I just don't stomach it really well. So for me, it's like, all right, I might get up, have a cup of coffee, but then hike to my glassing point or where I'm going to start hunt for an hour or an hour and a half or so, and then make that meal and have it because that's for me, that's how my body feels a little bit
better with it to be able to do so. And then I'll start with that kind of like that bigger meal and then snack throughout the day, and then I'll have one big dinner when I'm back at camp at night, no matter what time that is. I make sure that I do that, And that's kind of how I structure it.
So for your throughout the day snacks are those like bars or are you doing like peck your own you know, whole don't nuts, jerkys stuff like that, Like what are you specifically eating throughout the day.
Uh, there's a mixture.
So I'll do like like I really like the pro bar meals, the meal bars that they're high in calories and pretty good tasting. So I'll get, you know, I'll have one of those, then I'll have one of the protein bars. I'll keep one of those, and then from there, it's like a mixture of trail mix that that I like, some different nuts, some raisins that are kind of mixed
in there. And then I'll do like a snackstick per se, whether it's something of my own, like I'll have snacksticks made that are like from an elk or deer that I shot that I can take those and have them, or something like those fatty meat sticks that you can have that are just I just meat. So I like having that jerky if I have it, that would be
a good option. And really it's like those types of things kind of a mixture of nuts, bars and uh, and then something some sort of meat that I can have that's that can be packaged and stable to be in your backpack all day. And then and then some sort of a dried fruit. I love fruit. I eat fruit a lot on a normal basis, So whether it's like the dried banana chips or strawberry something along those lines,
I'll put that in there as well. And then the last thing that that I'll do is like they're not they're they're pretty good, but they're more of just like from a straight fuel standpoint, is the packets of like a nut butter that you can squeeze and and sometimes I'll put that right on my bar is like almost like a topping on it, or I'll just eat it right out of the packet, and like a macadamia nut
or peanut butter type thing. Straight peanut butter is not good for me because it sticks to the roof of my mouth and I just can't can't stomach it. But those are those are the types of things. But I try to mix it up where like a mixture of something has a little bit of that salty and then something that's you know, chocolatey and then some fruit and just try to mix it up a little bit there.
And then like for the breakfast and the dinners, I'll add either olive oil to the dinners or coconut oil to the breakfast in the morning to give me some extra calories in there as well.
So that's those are some of the things that I do.
Okay, So then what about sleep? You mentioned the big one or a big one being you know, giving yourself permission to rest sometimes middle of the day, which which is something that I've found to applies to like my white tail rut hunts. I used to be feel like guilty if I didn't hunt the entire day every day for weeks on end. Finally kind of realized that I was getting diminishing returns, so that that resonates with me
a lot. Is there anything you've found that helps you get a better night of sleep, whether it be like your sleep system, like the gear you're actually using, or anything else that just helps you sleep well and comfortably and get a full, you know, full refuel coming out of that.
Yeah.
So uh, I've learned to not skimp on a sleeping pad if you're sleeping like in a tent, having something even if you're backpacking that may weigh a little bit more but has some more cushion r value, some more insulation value to it. So I like to sleep on my side a lot. And if you have the super thin ones, your shoulders dig into the ground and you're constantly waking up and rolling. So making yourself be able to have a good sleep and then a pillow like
I have. I think it's a seat of Summit one, but it has like a fleece on it, so it's quiet.
Like some of those.
Blow up pillows when you rub your head on them, it's just it's loud and annoying. And you have to wrap it with like a You can always wrap it with a shirt or something that helps. But both the sleeping pad and the pillow are our big assets to being able to do that. Now, when it comes to the truck, I have kind of a bougie system where I've got the rooftop tent on there that's got a nice pad in it, and man, is that so nice to be able to sleep in versus like the back
seat or something along those lines. But figuring out whatever it is, figuring out a way to make it more comfortable for you to be able to sleep as close as you can to what it's like at home, even though it's not going to necessarily be that way, will help you in that regards. And if I have, if I have where I can, if I know I can get at least six hours, I'll take like a sleeping gummy. So like I have the they're like the mountainop slumber ones.
I take those.
It helps, but if I don't have six hours to be able to accumulate at night, then I'll wake up too groggy with them, So that's that, But that helps make sure I'm in kind of a deep, a deep sleep. But for the most part, I think is focusing on the you're sleeping arrangement and that you're comfortable and even like you're sleeping bag or if you're or if you're in like say a truck or you have something real blankets, whatever it is, make sure you're warm enough or not
too hot. Just thinking of the situation you're going to be in and trying to make your sleep as as comfortable as possible will help you with it. And when it comes to like the midday napping, that can be
difficult to get yourself in a good spot. If you're tired enough, you know you can sleep anywhere, but trying to get out of the sun, trying to find a good spot, maybe dig yourself out a little place in the side of the hill if you're on something that's somewhat steep, and I've found taking three minutes dig you out yourself out of spot is better than when I just lay down and I try to make it comfortable
and trying to dig my heels in. If you've ever done that on the side, and you're like thinking you're gonna be okay, and then you keep sliding, and it's like the amount of time that you spend trying to get yourself comfortable. If you would have spent three minutes in prep work and getting yourself a nice spot, would have been would have been better. Those are some lessons I've learned with with that.
It's good stuff. So one last gear question. I think gear is one thing where people can obsess and can spend tons of time researching and try and make sure
they've got the perfect thing of everything. And kind of on the flip side, sometimes people will look at all the gear for a western trip of some kind and find it like cost prohibitive because they think like, oh gosh, you know, Mark's using that fancy thing, and Bozie's in that fancy thing, and this guy's got this fancy thing, and if you look at all that, it costs so much money, you know. I think oftentimes you can get away many times with something much more budget conscious and
still get out there and be fine. But if there was one thing or one category of gear bowl that you'd say, like, that's the one thing I really do want to spend extra for. What would be that one type of item or category or something that you would say, like, hey, everything else you can kind of get away with mid tier budget or whatever, but this is the one thing where do your very best to buy the best you can get.
I have two that but they kind of go together. I'll say I'm both here, but it'd be boots in your clothing. I think those to your boots because like, if you're you're hiking, if you don't have proper fitting boots, any footwear, whatever you're wearing, that is going to make you miserable. If you can't if your wheels on your body aren't able to move, that's that's a that's a problem.
So having that and then the clothing from the temperature regulation side of it, and because it can actually be dangerous in those environments white tail hunting, I still think it's it's important, but you can get away with a little bit more because you're you know, you can get out and walk back to your truck in ten minutes sometimes and be okay again, where you're in in the mountains, you hike back in even if your truck camp and you might be a few miles away and it's difficult to.
To be able to get back.
So having something that can regulate temperature well and be able to do that and build just understanding layering concepts
is is important. And like you know, we could look at it and again, like you know, you're you're gonna be fully kitted out and first light and have it head to toe and I'm gonna have my sica and you look at us and you're like, oh man, those guys are But when you're in those systems going to cost a lot of money, well, it's like you can build things out and still have a good clothing system without going all out right off the bat.
You know, you can maybe you have.
Something that's a good bass layer that's not Coughton just to begin with that you can wear and you're like, oh, I really need something that's a wind proof outer jacket or I need a rain jacket. It's like, okay, maybe I focus my money there, get by with what I have, and then once you go on these hunts, you learn like, okay, this either worked or this was like all right, this is kind of a problem, and I want to upgrade
that next year. And I and I the only reason why I didn't say pack in that because that's I'd put that almost as number three. But if you're if your truck hunting, you can get away with the lesser of a pack and the only problem being the pack out of maybe being very uncomfortable, but you can get by with that a little bit more and then need to do that. Packs are definitely important. And I'm saying all this is I'm an absolutely geared nut and nerd, and I love having good gear and focusing on it.
But a lot of that has come from the experience. If I was the guy before that that overthought it, bought too much of things and then realize some of that even that expensive stuff that I bought was not as good for me personally or the pursuits that I was doing, and then I had to rebuy again.
Versus if I were to go out.
And use something, say it was a stove, a cooking stove or something, and you're like, you went out and you figured out this lightest weight system and all these things, but realized that it didn't have any protection for the wind that was coming through it, or it would blow over if there was any wind gusts because it was so light.
But if you just go out.
And you do it and you try it out, it's like, Okay, this is what I need in this scenario, or these are the attributes that I need of a piece of gear, and then you can be more selective in what you're doing and learn from that. So I think learning from the pain points is helpful, but I wouldn't recommend that with your footwear or your clothing.
Yeah, that's just pretty foundational. And I guess, speaking of being foundational, I want to zoom way out kind of back to the very beginning. I guess to end us here, and I guess ask you about the why again. Because we live in a world today where we can watch any adventure we want on YouTube or Netflix. We can see every wild, incredible natural landscape and scene on TV. We can push a button on our phone and have
food delivered to our doorstep. I've got a climate controlled, comfortable place I can sit in, i can work from home, I can watch from home. I can do whatever I need here. It's safe, it's comfortable, it's relaxing. There's great thriller TV shows on Netflix to get my adrenaline boost, et cetera, et cetera. We live in a world where real life adventure to some people seems more and more like an antiquated thing. Why for you is that not
the case? Why do you need this kind of thing in a very real, physical, visceral way.
I've seen the benefits of doing these types of hunts, these things that are hard that.
Maybe you don't you don't know what the result is going to be of a lot of it.
There's a lot of unknowns that comes into it when you're planning a hunt, of even the hunts that you've done before that say it's an elkon or a meal deer hunt or something this adventure style hunt. But those things, when you do them, you're constantly having to get across adversities and hurdles and things, and there's a lot of
times in that moment they're not fun. I mean, we over a lot of times when we talk about these things, we build these out of these you know, mystical adventures and all these things, and looking back on it, yes they are. But in the moment, a lot of it's really difficult and really hard. And I think that prepares you so much for other things in life when they come up, whether it's you know, in your life and your family or your work, whatever it might be. You
run into situations all the time. And I've learned that things that used to get me flustered don't get me as worked up anymore because it's like, Okay, let's work the problem. Let's figure out how we can get through this, because you run into that stuff all the time on a hunt, whether it is hunting pressure, or it's whether or just animals aren't running like you think they're supposed to,
or whatever it might be. Run into all these things, and I think you need that to do better in these other things in life, and you appreciate those comforts so much more when you when you have them.
But even even.
Myself, like I I catch myself and like say right now in the wintertime of not doing as much, and it's like, I mean, I work from home, you know, I do everything here, and it's like, man, I haven't left the house or really did anything in like, you know, three days. It's like I need to and you know,
working or doing stuff in my house. But it's like all right, yeah, it's cold outside, but maybe I need to go for a hike and just and then you feel so much better, You so much better after you do that, and you can you build these unnecessary stressors about that activity. I'll get to that sometimes where it's like, oh, I'm gonna go I need to go for a hike or just get outside and it's like, wow, it's cold and I got this going on. It's like, just go do it, and when you come back, you feel so much,
so much better from being able to do that. And I think the whole disconnecting and getting away from all those comforts for a little while still having you know, some comforts out there, like I said, with Geer and everything, but helps so much to make your the rest of your life more fulfilled. And then you just long and think about that and have that purpose of like I can't wait to go back or try try another one
of those adventures again. I can't tell you how many times I've been on hunts where they were literally miserable at times, and for some reason, I can't stop thinking about wanting to go back and try it again. And it's a it's a weird, it's a weird thing in my head. And I will say one last thing on this question. Here was an example. I went to Alaska a couple of years ago on the Doy moose hunt, and it's an absolute dream of mind to be able to do.
So I'm getting dropped.
Off for two weeks and at a lake and I got there, and leading up to it, it's like there was a lot of logistics and planning that went into that that ultimately they did stress me out, like trying to even with all the resources out there, it was still difficult to make it happen. And then I was so busy with trying to knowing I was gonna be one hundred percent disconnected, making sure that everything lined up with work and at home and all this stuff to
be gone for that time. It took me like almost two days of being in the backcountry to not feel anxiety or stress of like the things I forgot to do or and I felt this just like you know, I'd reach from my phone and it was like there's no service, like I couldn't and it's harder to find areas that don't have that anymore. So it's like, but once I got through that, it was like, this is awesome. Like my whole everything I need to do here is figure out what I'm gonna be eaten, where I'm gonna
get water from, and how I'm gonna find animals. And it's like it's pretty simple. And you run into some things again here and there, some adversities, but it's like we need that, like the Michael Easter's Comfort Crisis, like one of my favorite books, Like that is just incredible to when you think about that, we as humans need that adventure of some sort. And for me personally, it's
completely changed my life. It's helped change the trajectory of everything I've done from going on that first Western hunt. And it may sound dramatic, but it was like that changed my career path. That changed how I look at every fall and the adventures and the places I got to go, the food I've got, the taste, the animals have been able to pursue, the people have been able to meet, Like it's changed everything from being able to do that, and to me, it's like, that's that's what I want.
I'm right there with you, buddy, and thankfully if folks are feeling the same things you're saying and want to either do more of this stuff or try it for the first time. There's a lot more than what we've discussed here, and you've got a ton of content about it. So can you plug folks into where they can connect with you all of your content, your media, your socials. Where can they find it?
Yeah, thank you, Mark. But East meets West Hunt the podcast there is where I do a lot of that, interviewing guests that are ways smarter than me, have done a lot more than myself in these categories. My YouTube channel is just Bomartonic. You can find me on social media Instagram, Facebook, Bomartonic or East meets West Hunt and then East Meetswest Hunt. Dot com is where you can
really find links to everything there. So I appreciate the opportunity Mark, And honestly, this conversation just like got me fired up talking about it and planning some new stuff this year, and it's just it's great.
Yes, I agree, I'm feeling the same way. I'm about to hop on a plane for a work trip that's not going on an outdoor adventure, but I plan on doing some daydreaming and thinking about an outdoor adventure and get to plan one soon. So thank you so much for taking the time and chat about this stuff. Man, it's great.
Yeah.
Thanks Mark, all right, and that's gonna do it today. I appreciate you being here. I hope you enjoyed this chat with myself and Bow. Until next time, Stave Wired to Hunt