¶ Defining UI and UX in AV Environments
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Wired in the Conec podcast. I have special guests with me today replacing or standing in for Marcus. He'll be back later. Uh, but we have Jeff, Howard and Cannell Smallwood. Thank you for joining both programmers at heart and leading the design team for Contech. Jeff, I wanna start with you. We are talking about UI and ux. Today, which are very interchangeable terms, uh, in the industry. I think at least people use them interchangeably.
Um, but that may not necessarily be so, so can you give us a brief definition of those and why the heck does it matter? Why are we talking about that today?
Yeah, sure thing Brandon. Thanks for having me. Um, so I'm a senior UI UX engineer. What that means is I am responsible for the user experience, um, UX user experience, uh, which is a little bit different. They do go hand in hand, but a user interface is a specific device or a specific way that end users interact with, uh, an AV system.
Hmm.
it could be a touch panel, it could be an occupancy sensor, it could be just looking at, um. Something on a screen to indicate how the system is behaving. So that is the interface between and the system.
Hmm.
Um, and user experience is a little more robust than that. It sort of defines the overall, um, feeling a, a user gets when they are operating and, and using the system. So, um. Things like, uh, projectors, video walls, uh, the audio quality, um, how easy the interfaces are to use and how, uh, intuitive they are. That all is like globally wrapped into ux,
Hmm.
user experience. And what Canal, canal and I do is, uh, designed those, um, systems with the end user in mind. You know, how are they going to experience a system and is it going to do. What the system is designed to do, uh, to facilitate meetings, lectures, anything that needs to happen in that space.
I agree. Any, uh, canal, anything to add or, or a distinction on that?
Absolutely. Those were very good points, Jen. one thing that I'll add is that, um, the UI how you make it look, look pretty, and what they're actually touching on that on a touchscreen or a button panel. Um, but UX is where it really dives into how do you feel using a room. And I
Hmm.
said that Jeff, um, one of the biggest things that I like to think about is,
¶ Impact of User Experience on Space Utilization
is preparing for the room shouldn't be as stressful as preparing for the meeting itself. So.
like that.
don't want to have that, uh, being anxious to use the actual equipment in the room and setting up for the meeting. Um, in comparison, your actual meeting is what you should be worried about. So that's when you, we, we start talking about the user experience behind things
Hmm. Marcus has made the point, uh, a couple of times that, um, if you don't have a great UX. People don't want to go into the room and use it like you're saying, you know, they'll find another room or another way they'll, they'll, you know, take the meeting from the desk. You know, it's like, it's much easier to just log into Zoom or whatever from my computer. Um, which eventually impacts the, the, you know, ROI, essentially of the room and of the space in general.
It degrades the performance of the organization. If you can't have a great meeting, for example. Do you find that to be the case in your experience with ux? Is that, is that trend with how you guys see it?
Yeah, I, I definitely would agree with that. Um. soon as someone has issues or resistance on using a room, um, it kind of turns you off from even wanting to touch the
Yeah.
Um, that's, that's what you run
Yes, sir.
and that's our job. I, I think when I think about providing a control system for a room, um. end user should be able to walk into the room and have no fear. They don't need any user guides, no manuals. Um, if, if they are asking questions when they're using a system or see a touch panel, I don't feel like I did my
Oh, well. Hmm, hmm. How do you make it better? I mean, I know that's such a broad question, but like, what are some
¶ Principles Behind Intuitive System Design
principles or, or things that you guys are thinking about in doing your work or designing a space, helping somebody's dream or vision come to life? Like what are the, call it, you know, checklists or things that are going off in your mind? Like, how can I make this simpler? How can I make this easier? How can I make it more. You know, adaptable to the different ways people meet and their different technologies, like what's going through your mind when you're setting those things up?
That's a great question. Um, I think the two. I approach that are first to think about just the audio and video signal flow. Uh, where are the video sources and audio sources? How do they get to the loudspeakers? How do they get to a Zoom or teams meeting? Um, and then the other side of that is the touch panel or the user interface. Um. We wanted it to look as clean and as as simple as possible.
Um, like Kennel was saying, if, if people are confused by the interface, if they just don't understand it or they don't have a good experience during a meeting, they're not gonna wanna use that space. So, um, a lot of the times we will lean on a client to say, Hey, do you have, um. Style guide that you use? Or do you have other rooms where you've had success
Hmm.
just build off of that? You know, we can scale it up, scale it down from a small huddle space to, you know, a a hundred seat lecture hall. Um, it really is just about ease of use and about making sure that like when that person is up at the podium or is on a meeting, um, that they feel confident that everything is gonna work right.
Hmm.
One of our goals is make the user interface easy, familiar and intuitive. Um, again, as I, as I was saying earlier, my goal is to make a control System that doesn't require a manual user guide or even invoke questions. Um, uh, obviously there's gonna be users that are kind of averse to technology. Um, but uh, if I, if I've done my job correctly, they shouldn't, um. Have any questions and can just walk up to the panel and use the room.
Um, when thinking about, uh, system design or UI design, we probably wanna focus on not having too many button presses. Obviously I max it out when I'm thinking about control systems. A max of two to three button presses to do a certain, um. A certain, uh, action in the system or
Hmm.
Um, once you start going too far deep into menus and, and you're pressing 3, 4, 5 buttons to do a certain, uh, action in the room you just lost at the user at that point. So that's one of the big things. Um, another thing that we think about is button affordance. Um, button affordance is, uh, essentially making pressable buttons. Buttons that do actual actions look like buttons. Not to be confusing with, uh, maybe text on the, on the panel.
Um, so it makes it very easy for the, the user to, to operate a touch panel and, and kind of self
Hmm. Let the record show that. When you need something to be simple and elegant, that that is actually the most difficult thing to achieve. And so your emphasis on, I don't want that many buttons to press. I don't want that, want that many steps. That actually requires a lot of hard work on the front end or. In this case, maybe the backend to make things really, really simple for the user.
And it makes me think of, uh, this is kind of an obvious cliche example, but it makes me think of like Steve Jobs at Apple. That was a big drive of him and his work with Johnny Ive, which was like, how do I make this thing where I don't need a button at all? I don't need anything. And so you have this like clean plane of glass on a phone, which was unique at the time. Um, so do you guys, uh, feel that that maxim is true? That if you want something simple.
That that's actually the most difficult thing to do.
Yeah, absolutely. I think I was at, uh, Infocom in 2018 and attended a seminar on user experience and they said. Uh, one of the main, um, thesis points was that, you know, we all now have many touch panels and computers, uh, in our pockets everywhere we go. So in terms of of being familiar with how to. Uh, open an app and do a function, uh, on our phones.
Um, the AV industry really needed to catch up in terms of uh, ease of use and, um, making it look clean, making it clear because an app isn't gonna have, you know, a document to go along with it to say. To do this, follow these 14 steps, you really need it to be, like Canne said, one or two button presses, you're off and running. And I think the challenge for us as, as UI designers is to just, like Cannell said, make it clear what the buttons are doing. There's a progression between
¶ Advancements in Control and Automation
pages. They're visually consistent and the user is gonna have, uh, like I said, confidence in. the System forming, uh, as you go through the, the buttons and the, and the menus.
Hmm.
When we're thinking about these systems, um, we're working with systems that can have multiple ins and outs. Um, most of our. Technology is moving towards more of a matrix style systems, whether it be a matrix in a box or uh, AV over ip. You got any input to any
Hmm.
Now our job as the, uh, control programmer is, Hey, what does the end user really need? They don't need to know that I could send a camera back into my PC or I can send a camera to the actual t uh, display. What. What's their use case? What do they really need to see on the panel? And we'll do the work and thought process behind the scenes to make all those p parts and pieces
Hmm.
So it's definitely, it takes some brain power to, to get that going, but, um, that, that's the end of the end goal and, and the whole thing.
Yeah. I can see in the kind of tech industry more broadly, at least for like office work with, with computers, the where I see things going is, is uh, just doing everything with your voice. It's like, I don't even need a screen almost. I don't even need buttons on a keyboard or a mouse. I just need to talk to it. Like I see a lot more features coming out with. With tools like that and how agents can build things just by natural language and all that, which is really fascinating.
I don't think AV is gonna get there n next week, but it's heading that direction maybe. Um,
I think a
yeah.
uh, user interface devices, they have cameras, they have microphones. So in terms
Yeah.
of, of voice commands, of gestures, um, just not even needing to, um, to touch a
Yeah.
uh, we've seen a, uh, uh, the industry come a long way in terms of, uh, camera tracking. I
Hmm.
initially it was, uh, very expensive and, and very difficult to do, and now you're seeing out-of-box solutions from a number of manufacturers that have really smart, uh, auto tracking, auto framing
Hmm.
for people in meetings. And, uh, we've seen a huge response from clients saying that, um, that has improved their experience, uh, and their virtual
Really? Hmm.
And, um, I think one of the biggest, uh. Double-edged swords we've seen is that during the pandemic, uh, people, they got really smart about, uh, hybrid and virtual meetings. Um, but they also, when they come back to a physical conference room or a physical meeting room. They want to have that same intimacy where the camera shot is framed correctly, that the microphone is right there.
Hmm.
uh, I think we touched on this earlier, where if a, if a user experience is poor, they're just gonna take those meetings at their desk with their headphones
Yeah.
and they're not gonna want to use, uh, a system. So the challenge for us is, you know, how do we. Um, how do we provide a solution where user experience in a room with, with 6, 8, 10 other people, um, can provide that intimacy and that, um, connection that you need for those meetings, um, in a larger space.
Yeah, which is hard to do. I mean, if you've got multiple mics that are close to each other, let's say somebody's on their computer. You know, and there's people remotely and there's just a bunch of different, it's, it's hard to get that right, to get that
¶ Integrating Client Brand Into User Interfaces
feedback to echo all of that. And it's, it's, that's really difficult. Uh, I, I wanna shift gears a bit, and I know a, a. Uh, a big component of doing your work? Well, the UI and the UX together is having a, um, a client's brand, their visual brand incorporated into the aspects of the, the screen, multiple screens, multiple offices, and how that might be rendered in different ways. And I'm thinking, you know, from a marketing perspective, thinking about a great UX, is that every channel.
Asset device platform. They all have this cohesion to this is the brand, this is, you know, it's got this color palette, this type style, this, you know. Um, so how do you guys think about that and doing that well across all the different, I don't know, platforms, channels that you guys have on your industry?
So I, I'd like to take that one. Um, so, weirdly enough, the first thing that I do to kind of get my creative juices flowing is I check out the company's website. Um, the website's going to guide me in how to match their look, their feel, and even the culture of the company. You're gonna, you're gonna get that feel from their, the actual website, obviously you'll see logos there, you'll see colors that they use, um, and, um, you kind of fly from there.
The other thing that a lot of entities have are, are brand guides. These bigger entities, um, like a lot of our higher education we do, they have, they have their full brand guides telling you, Hey, what our color codes are, what our fonts are, and this all. drives you into matching the identity of the company. Um, so, so yeah, like I said, I, I usually start on a, on a website. I'm not sure how you, how you get your go, get the gears going there, uh, Jeff. But, um, that's usually where I start.
Hmm.
Yeah, I'm the same way. I think, uh, if there are any, uh, examples of other systems where the client has had success, um, we'll ask them for either screenshots of that or a, a source code from their UI platform. Um, yeah. And just a conversation with them about what do you like about this? What do you not like about this? Um, will, throughout the project timeline, we'll create, um, mockups of the user interface screens and present them to the client. And it's, it's a conversation.
It's not, you know, one out of box solution where we have a template and this is what you get. Um, might like, uh, certain buttons or certain color combinations. Uh, there was one project I did where. actually created three versions of the same interface page. You know, one was a white background, a gray background, and a a black background. And say you can go dark mode, high contrast, you know, what is gonna work for your users in this space.
Um, and you know, a lecture hall might have a different need than a huddle
Hmm.
So it's just about being flexible. Um, and a lot of times you, you'll get to a client that has just done it one way. For so long, and that's the only way they know. So it's our job to also be creative and sort of inspire, um, where they can improve upon their user experience in terms of going a different direction, um, with a UI screen or with, uh, just how the system flows through
Hmm.
presses and through the menus than that way.
Hmm.
It's so important to, I guess, that the level of, of the anxiety that a end user can use, can, can feel when using a room you're matching their logos, colors, fonts and everything. It, it makes them, makes the system feel like it's a part of this
Hmm.
Um, and I think us taking those steps to match the identity of the company. shows that we care about our client and the customer and, and what they're trying to do. So, um, the time that me and Jeff kind of take to, to hone in on those things, I, I think is a step that would be ill-advised to, to miss for other integrators. Um, but it, it does show that, that we care at the end of the day.
It's about a level of polish and craftsmanship and quality. You know, I think that's what you guys are getting rest. Like when you step into a, a contact designed to integrate, implemented space, it should have this level of polish, right? Especially if you're gonna be spending half a million, a million dollars on a, on a beautiful space. It should feel beautiful at every level of detail. Do you, do you feel that kind of drive when you're working with your clients?
Oh, absolutely. I think, you know, you walk into a space, notice the biggest things first, right? We often say it's, it's the AV industry is capital V because you're gonna notice a video wall, you're gonna notice a projector. Uh, but it's really those, those fine details that once you are using the system, uh, once you're familiar with it, uh, those. Going that extra mile is really, um, gonna create, uh, the most positive user experience possible.
And I think it's why we've had, uh, so much repeat business with our clients is because they know that, that, like you said, craftsmanship is, is really, um, what's at the heart of our, of our company. Um, and like I said, it's an ongoing conversation because, uh, a lot of companies will just. Give you one thing, uh, and when the project starts, it could be some higher level decision makers, but once it reaches the end user, the system might not be exactly the way they envisioned it.
So we, throughout the project timeline, we are checking in. We are, uh, visiting the job site. Um, we're talking with the people who are, um, going to be using the system. And then even after a project is complete, you know, we have our support team who's gonna be right behind us.
Um. Touching base with the client, making sure they're happy with the experience, not just from a functionality standpoint, but um, from the way that the system, uh, is being used and, um, that goes right in line with user experience.
Imagine you're talking to a leader at a corporate environment, a hospital government, academic setting, and they're thinking like, you know, I've got this idea for a space. I don't like our current space, or we're building a new office or a new wing, and they're thinking about taking this on, taking on a big AV project. What do you wish that they knew before they really started in earnest? What would you recommend? What advice or wisdom do you have?
I would want them to know that
¶ Guiding Client Vision and Managing Complexity
they're not in a box. Um, you can make this room be whatever you want. You can have the look and feel. You can make it as automated as you want. if you just wanna walk into a room and it, it, it just wakes up and starts, starts running, um, we can do that. If you wanna walk into a room and it's as simple. touch, um, your calendar invite is on the panel and you wanna jump right in. We can do that.
Um, if you wanna be, have a complex room, um, say, uh, three to four different displays in the room, and you wanna be able to share your students', uh, information to any one of those displays, um, in any type of combination, sure, we can do that. Um, like we can do anything. We're, we're, we're not. not gonna put you in a box.
We're gonna listen to what your needs and use cases are, and hey, let me, me and Jeff will, uh, put our minds together to make it as easy to use, but also have the ability to be as complex as you want, as well.
Any negative scoping or, or, uh, cautionary tales to say. You can do that, but this is what we need to be thinking about instead. You know, or anything like that. That's like, yeah, we can do anything but do think about this.
I, I will definitely, um, I'll give that to Jeff. Um, but what, what you definitely have to think about, um. I said keeping them inside of a box. You definitely need to guide the end user
Hmm.
uh, use case. And you really going to need to
Hmm.
multiple sources to multiple destinations at the end of the day? Probably not. So do have to put the reins on things. Um, and it's something we think about every day for any system.
Hmm.
Yeah, and just to add to that, I think. hit the nail on the head with use case. I think, um, with the larger spaces, the more complex spaces, especially divisible spaces, um, you really want to get an idea of what are the most common use cases. And if, for example, a room is gonna be, uh, open one big space for 95% of the time, uh, that just guides us in terms of designing. A UI and system behavior, uh, behind the scenes to facilitate that and to make that as easy to use. And then.
Behind, uh, a tech page or an admin page, uh, password protected, so most end users don't have to see it. You can get into the, okay, we're gonna divide it. We're gonna send these sources to one side. We're gonna have, um, different functionality on the other side. Um, so dream big. Absolutely. Uh, we can do anything with enough, with enough time and enough, uh, knowledge of, of what your needs are.
Um, but uh, once the project starts and we drill down to, okay, what is, what is the day to day, uh, user, uh, going to be doing in the space? And then that's really where Canal and knife shine in terms of being able to have somebody walk into a space, um, and maybe not even know that it's a full matrix video system or. there's x minus audio going on, they just come in and use the space and, uh, are happy with the experience.
Hmm. So if I could summarize, maybe dream big, but, uh, but do think really hard about what you really need, what you really need, really want day to day, what your, what your team's gonna need and so on.
Yeah, absolutely. I think with these hybrid spaces too, um. The ability to sort of change, uh, the look and feel of them. And we can, you know, we can do that with different interfaces. Um, it's, it's funny because I feel like those edge cases, you know, not the day-to-day use, but those edge cases where they say, well, we have a big. You know, we have, uh, a VIP coming in and we have to, to use this, this system in a different way.
But those are the high visibility ones, and that's really where we want to, um, go through, uh, the system with a fine tooth comb and, and make sure that it's bulletproof.
Hmm.
inevitably, uh, that's when you know you're not getting the microphone mix that you need. Uh, when the VIP is there.
Yeah.
so talking about. Not only day-to-day use case, but also like to make this system really sing. Uh, and just through our process, uh, like I said, in just constant communication. We wanna be a partner, uh, in developing these, these spaces and making sure that, um, one that's all said and done, that the client is putting their best foot forward, uh, in utilizing the space.
You spoke about, um, divisible rooms. Um, that is a big case when we kind of have to put the,
¶ Real-World Examples and Use Case Focus
the rails on things. Um, if you think about it, uh, divisible room, once you go combined, sure you could have a situation where you could use the left or the right room to. To present from and use all sources from the left or the right, but in, in most use cases. Let, let's ask the customer, Hey, what side is going to be your, your primary room? And then that kind of guides us in making our
Hmm.
simpler and saying that, Hey, when this room is combined, you're gonna use room A as your primary control source. Your sources from room A is what gets shared to both sides of the room. Um, you do your presentations from the primary side and room A and so forth. So I think when you, when you mentioned come, uh. Combined Divid provided rooms. That's one of the, one of the biggest, uh, examples of when we really need to hone in on, on use cases and, uh, kind of guide
Mm-hmm.
I think, um, just real quick, uh. can't tell you the number of times I've, uh, gone to meet a new client or been with our support team and talked to an existing client and we're, you know, we're talking about their needs, and we get to a divisible space and say, oh, great. You know, how, how long have you had this space? It's like, oh, I've had about eight, maybe 10 years. It's like, great. How many times have you. In the divided configuration, it's like, oh, maybe once, maybe twice.
And you're just like, okay, is it really a divisible space at that point or is it just one big room?
Yeah.
So, uh, I think, like I said, having those conversations, uh, early on in the, in the project process, uh, talking to our. Uh, account team and our design team, uh, about how best to meet, uh, what is actually happening in the room. That's, that's so
Hmm.
and I think that's what, uh, contact does really well, uh, throughout the project Timeline.
That's helpful. That's something that Marcus has always emphasized is if you're starting the idea of what you want to do, give us a call. Call us as early as possible because all those decisions need to be sorted out way before you start, say the architectural plans, the build, like all of that needs to be thought through in a really cohesive, comprehensive way. So yeah, that tracks, that tracks. Well, guys, thanks so much for your time, your wisdom, your experience.
I know you guys are in the weeds all day thinking about these kind of things, but I'm glad we kinda surfaced a, a bit to talk about what that, how that impacts some of these big projects, especially for leaders considering this kind of work. So, um, super helpful to have you on and have your wisdom and experience shared with everyone. Uh, so I'm hoping we'll have you back on another episode. But in the meantime, Jeff Canal, thanks so much. We'll talk soon.
Yeah. Brandon, thanks so much. This was fun.