Clay talks with Ted Cruz

Who do you think gets it done here? Do you think the Chiefs or do you think that the Bucks are going to be the Super Bowl champ when the NFL season finishes, Well, I think we're gonna have a close game and uh Brady has certainly shown an ability to pull it out against impossible odds. That being said, Mahomes is a is a beast and so so if you if you push me, I'd say it's probably Kansas

Cities game. We have spent a lot of time on this show, as I know you have seen, and we've interacted a decent amount on social media, pushing as hard as we possibly can for sports to be played, not

just pro sports, high school sports, college sports. How important do you think it has been for sports too, in many ways lead the way in showing how things are able to get done in America as opposed to curling up in the fetal position and saying the challenges are too are too much, we can't find a way to

get through and continue our business, continue our play during COVID. Well, look, I think it is important that that people be able to go to their jobs, go to work, provide for their kids, provide for their families, and people are seeing through sports that it's possible that it can happen. Listen. I think the NBA, the way they did the bubble for the playoffs last year was was very well done. I mean that the fact that they pulled it off

right in fairly early in the pandemic was was impressive. Uh, And I think it was. You know, it's a contrast contrast that's say two movies. I'm a huge movie buff. I love movies. You know, Hollywood is essentially shut down, Broadway is shut down. You know, think of of the

thousands of people who are unemployed. And you know, not just big, big, fancy movie stars who have the resources to to make it through it, but you know, people who work on lighting and gaffers and carpenters and electricians who the entire industry is devastated and and thankfully sports has done a better job of of showing that that that we can try to be safe and protect people, but but not utterly destroy their livelihoods at the same time.

It is really emblematic I think of where America has gone that you now hear people say it's brave and courageous when people say we can't do something right. I mean, and you know, your family has an immigrant background as well, like like most people who were in America on some level came here from somewhere else. Right. The idea that we are now praising people when they say, oh, it's impossible to do something is fundamentally to me, the opposite

of what America should stand for. I think that's right. And if you look at different jurisdictions, there as some jurisdictions that have shut everything down. And and you know, if you're a restaurant owner in New York City, I mean, I think it is just unconscionable what they've done. They've just destroyed small businesses. You know that that sometimes may have been built by two three generations of families, and

you've seen politicians just cavalierly shut them down. Um, I think we ought to be able to walk and shootgum. At the same time, we can't totally eliminate risk, you know, I mean, if you if you know, I guess we could all lock ourselves in a bubble and never never interact with with anyone on planet Earth, and that would that would reduce risk. But that's not a not a world anyone who wants to live in. And and so

I think we need some some common sense. Um. And and I will say I think Texas by and large has followed that path where we've taken the pandemic seriously, but we've also small businesses to be able to open and and a restaurant spreads out a little bit more. I mean, you take reasonable protective steps, but you don't just obliterate people's entire livelihoods. You know. It's it's a

fascinating window into the importance of federalism. And I don't know in our lives that it has ever mattered more who the governor of your state happened to be than right now right, and who the mayor of your city might have been. Because we've got all these different little laboratories to deal with COVID, and you mentioned Texas. I think Florida and Texas, among the big states, have clearly done the best at balancing risk while also maintaining people's

ability to continue their livelihood. And you contrast that with New York and with California, and it's not a surprise. I was looking at the data on net migrations. The three states I live in, Tennessee, the three states that have gained the most residents during this whole mess of COVID Tennessee, Texas, and Florida. What do they all have in common? They have figured out a way to keep

businesses open while also trying to protect their residents. Meanwhile, people are fleeing from New York, Illinois, and California, three of the most restrictive places in the entire country. It's an interesting laboratory to study their response and see who has done the best job in a way that many countries who are more national in scope might not have had those different laboratories to examine. Yeah, that that that

that is exactly right. Um. You know a stat that that I've cited for some time is the cost of a one way U haul from California to Texas. It used to be it was three more to go from California to Texas that it was to go the other way around. It's actually risen more than that. So right now, to get a twenty four ft U haul from San Francisco to Austin, Texas cost five thousand dollars. To take the same truck back cost nine eight six dollars because

all the traffic is going one way. That's right, nobody go on the up. It's fascinating. That's actually a really great data point. That pathway that you're talking about Senator crews from Austin, I mean from San Francisco to Austin. Also San Francisco to Miami, San Francisco, Nashville. Big tech is starting to break up that corporate hegemony that had existed in San Francisco. I know you have a lot of concerns about this, as do I. I don't try to get incredibly partisan on a day to day basis,

certainly not with my shows. But the thing that I believe in is the marketplace of ideas. And I don't think there's any doubt by anyone who is active on social media that we don't have a full fledged marketplace of ideas in the American ecosystem like we have in past years. What should be done to big tech companies that are making the decision to pull Parlor off of their servers, like Amazon did to not allow certain apps

to be available at Apple or at Google. This idea of hey, you don't have the right to spread your particular viewpoint if it conflates or conflicts with ours is to me fundamentally scary because, as you know, many of the great ideas that emerge in American thought initially were considered to be ludicrous and absurd, but because of the marketplace of ideas, they were able to gain cogency and acceptance. And that's how our country evolves in an intelligent and

efficacious manner. Look, I think that is exactly right. And I think the power of big tech uh is the single greatest threat we have to free speech in this country. And it's the greatest threat we have to our democracy.

That that we right now have a handful of Silicon Valley billionaires with with almost total monopoly power over over political discourse and just about every other form of discourse today, and and and they're getting more and more brazen in how they use that power to silence those views they don't like, in the ample by those views they do. And it's you know, they've always been biased journalists. That

that that that's not new in the world. From the very first time the first journalists were carving words on a stone tablet, there were biased journalists. What's different is that that big tech has power that that William Randolph Hurst at the height of yellow journalism, could not have imagined. Because they control seventy plus percent of people's political news is coming online, it's coming through social media, and and their bias is invisible as well. If they don't like

what you say, you simply disappear. They can shadow bang you, they can throttle you, and there's zero accountability. And and we've seen just the last few months, we saw we saw Facebook and Twitter both blocking The New York Post, the fourth largest newspaper, decreed, we're shutting you down. And we've seen them d platform. The President of the United States just said, Okay, we don't like Donald Trump. He's

no longer allowed to speak. We've seen them, as you put it out, what they did to Parlor and what they did to Parlor was blatantly illegal and violated the antitrust laws. And I fully expect that they will pay a big judgment because because you had multiple competitors working together in concert to destroy another competitor, and and that that is illegal, and they don't care and and it

is a massive threat. And unfortunately, right now with with Democrats in charge of Washington, the Democrats want big tech to do more of this, not less. They're in favor of big tech censorship and and so I expect the

problem to get worse before it gets better. What's interesting, Senator Cruise about Parlor in particular, And we both have legal background, so I always try to talk for an audience that might not People say, well, if you violate Twitter's user agreement, then you don't have the right to

speak to your audience through Twitter. And then so Parlor was actually created to guarantee that if people didn't have the ability to reach their audience through Twitter, they could start their own company which had a different genesis of what their ideas were going to be. And then Amazon Web Services, uh, and also Google and Apple. Amazon said we're not gonna host you. Google and Apple said we're not going to allow your app to be downloaded, and

they effectively. I mean, I think this is an analogy that people can understand. It's a book burning by Amazon, which was a company that was founded to sell books. They have eliminated the largest amount of opinion from being able to be shared in America, probably in the twenty one century anywhere. No dictator could have made the decision that Jeff Bezos did to shut down as many people

instantaneously as he did. Uh. And we've basically have created our own Chinese wall, but it's being now monitored by, as you said, billionaires in Silicon Valley. I think that's exactly right. And as I said, they're getting more and more brazen about it. Um. Now, how you solved it is a complicated question. I've spent a lot of time the last several years sharing multiple hearings in the Senate on censorship with big Tech and detailing, uh, detailing all

the instances of censorship. We've seen the solution. Listen, nobody wants to see a federal government speech police. That would be a terrible thing. But there are solutions that that are consistent with law that also protect free speech. One solution, so right now, Big Tech has a special immunity from liability under what's called Section to thirty of the Communications Decency Act that that Congress gave it to Big Tech twenty years ago, and and it functions us like corporate welfare.

It's a benefit that nobody else gets and only big Tech gets. The reason big Tech got that immunity from liability is because Congress understood that big Big Tech was going to be a neutral public forum. In other words, it wasn't gonna put its finger on the scale. It was gonna let people speak. And so the reasoning was, well, it's not fair to hold them liable for what other people are saying if it's a public forum where anyone can speak. Well, big Tech has decided to abandon that.

They are nakedly and brazenly censoring. And if they're going to do that, there's no reason on earth that they should have a special immunity from liability nobody else gets. Secondly, the antitrust laws. By any measure, big Tech is bigger. It's more powerful than a T and T was when

it was broken up under the anti trust laws. It's bigger and more powerful than standard oil was when it was broken up under the antitrust laws and and it has long been existing laws that you cannot abuse monopoly power, which is what they're doing. And then the third avenue that that that I think needs to be pursued. It is a claim that that that sounds in in fraud and consumer protection, and it's essentially this the agreement you make with big tech when you sign up for a

social media account. The promise they're making to you is that if you follow someone, you'll see what they have to say, and if they follow you, they'll see what you have to say. Big Tech is breaking that promise. They're deciding if they don't like what you have to say. The people who have chosen I want to follow Kate Clay Travis, well, if they don't like what you have to say, they don't get to hear what you say, even though they want to hear what you say. And

and that is fundamentally fraudulent and deceptive. And I think with the Biden administration, you're not going to see any federal government pressure on this, So it's gonna have to come from state attorneys general. It's gonna have to come in the states, and it's gonna have to come from private litigation, and I expect quite a bit litigation, particularly as a big tech gets more and more brazen. I think we're gonna see more and more litigation directed that

you'll be fascinated by this. I've talked a little bit about it on the show. We had Donald Trump on this radio program, OutKick the coverage that that I most twice. The first time that we had him on, we wrote about it a lot of OutKick UH and Facebook. In the week after we had Trump on, we lost seventy percent of our Facebook traffic. Like you can watch if if we pull a graph and we show you we wrote, you know, four or five different articles because he was

talking about whether or not college football should play. To his credit in the White House's credit, they fought as hard as they possibly could to help us make sure that college football happens. Most of the stories that we were talking about him with were almost entirely sports related. We wrote about it, right the President United States comes on my show, We're going to write about it on the website that that I own as well, right to

help share that information. We lost seventy p of our Facebook traffic UH and our data analysts said it was because Donald Trump's name was appearing in so many of our articles, and it was not a negative characterization, right. It was like President Trump is in favor of college football being played. Right, our data people went back and looked at it. That's Facebook. It's an unbelievable power that

they have. As soon as we stopped writing about Donald Trump, over the next week, our traffic went right back up. But we can directly go to that and say they cost us tens of thousands of dollars in the way they responded to us writing about Donald Trump coming on the radio program. Now, one one thing we could say, if we were purely looking to maximize revenue, is we would say, oh, Facebook is dinging us. They are telling

us we can't write anything positive about Donald Trump. As long as we don't, our revenue will stay the same. But the minute we go positive on Trump, our revenue collapsed. We can legitimately show you that him coming on our radio program cost us tens of thousands of dollars. That is powerful and and it is entirely consistent with the conduct they're doing in multiple other instances. You know, one of the hearings I shared in the Senate, Dr Robert

Epstein testified. Uh. He is a psychologist, and he has done uh, just about the only empirical research on bias and Google searches and and he did it initially in twos sixteen where he examined Google searches and and the biased outcome that that leans to the left. And he concluded that Google's bias searches shifted two point six million votes to the Democrats, to Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. Now here's the interesting thing. Clay dr Epstein is not

a Republican. He is a liberal Democrat who voted for Hillary Clinton and and and who publicly campaigned for Hillary Clinton. And yet he was horrified that that big tech has the power to just manipulate voters and deceive them. And and that that was four years ago. They're they're much worse now because they feel that that nothing is holding

the back, there are no limits. It is terrifying, fascinating, And I think the story of our age, the other big story of our age, I think big tech is one of the massive story censorship, cancel culture, the way that all of that roles together with identity politics. The other one is China. And to me, for the world of sports, what happened with Darryl Moray, who is down in Houston, in your home state of Texas, when he

came out and supported Hong Kong democracy. The NBA, which wants to claim that it is a bastion of social justice warriordom, that they are worried about being on the right and wrong side of history. Amazing silence, right, Lebron James, who speaks out all the time, didn't have a word to say other than sometimes the First Amendment can be a bad thing, which is an amazing quote to have. Uh. Greg popa bitch who I'm gonna get to in a minute, Steve Kerr. They pop off on everything that the president

was doing, Donald Trump. They don't say a word about China. So I want to circle around on on China a little bit, and in particular the NBA's relationship with China. Greg Popovich, Uh went after you. I saw quotes recently. I know Mark Cuban has come after you. Mark Cuban has has come after me for people out there, obviously Dallas Mavericks, Mark Cuban, as well as Greg Popovich of the San Antonio Spurs. Uh. When you hear Greg Popovitch, I know you're a basketball fan. I know you've liked

to watch the NBA over the years. When you hear Greg Popovitch going after you, when Mark Cuban is going after you for your political opinions, but they won't say a word about genocide in China. About I saw recently an article I was reading today about forced rape of weaker women by by people in China, and they're using literal, literal slave labor to make their products. Nike is uh. The NBA has had their own factory of basketball uh in that province where the wagers are being held in

concentration camps. How about that hypocrisy that they would not say a word about that, but they come after you for your political opinions. Well, it's it's massive hypocrisy. And and the the n b A and and pro sports in general made a big bet that there's a whole lot of money to be made in China, and they're willing to look the other way on on torture and murder and horrific human rights abuses because they stand to make a big buck. So so Daryl Morey sent a

really mild tweet to start this all. Stand with Hong Kong, Stand Stand for liberty and democracy. I think it's what he said. Um and and by the way, he was right, because they've taken it away. Of course he was right. But but it illustrates a couple of things. Number One, look, you and I know who Darryl Mori is. I'm a die hard Rockets and I bleed Rockets read. But but most people in the country didn't know who Daryl Morey was.

Frankly when he sent the tweet that that was not going to be heard by a whole lot of people until the Chinese communists lost their minds and they freaked out about it because so terrified of criticism. And and the one friendly amendment I'd make to what you just said is you said the NBA state silent about it. No, they did worse than state silent about it, which is they groveled an apology and they and by the way,

what did what did? What did China do? It shut down all of the Rockets and NBA sales of of uniforms in China. Of course we used to have Yao Ming, so actually the Rockets a very popular team in China. They shut that all down. Lebron James blasted Maury for saying that he was defending China, said all more, he doesn't understand China. Really, Lebron, what is there to understand about concentration camps and murder and torture. But look, you

understand what Lebron is interested in. You understand what Mark Cuban is interested in. They're interested in bucks. They're interested in Mark Cuban is making millions of dollars by making the communist government in China happy. And they have total control over whether Mark Cuban makes that money or not.

And so the NBA, it's about the Benjamin's and and so you know, look this last NBA season when they had the ridiculous uh practice of putting all the NBA players having slogans on the back of their u uh back of their jerseys. You know, I and a number of other people said, okay, how about free Hong Kong. Yeah, how about remember Tanneman square. I mean, look, you're all for political speech. Oh no, no, no, no no, just the political speech that happens to agree with everything in your politics.

That's the only speech you'll allow it. It's massive hypocrisy. You mentioned that you're a Houston Rockets fan. Um Die died in the wool, long time Houston Rockets in total sports question here for you. Do you think that the Rockets would have won the two championships that they did if Michael Jordan hadn't retired. That tells me that you are a huge Houston Rockets fan, because that's that's Houston

Rocket fandom to the core. And listen. And I adored Jordan's I mean, I mean, it's it's I think Jordan is the greatest it's ever played on on on the Jordan Lebron debate. I don't even think it's close. But that's so ninety four when the Rockets won our first finals. I was at game seven when we beat the Knicks, when John Starks went oh for eleven. I mean it was and it was in the summit. Kilson had never won a championship at any sports and and and it

will remain the sports highlight of my life. Where afterwards you had businessmen in three piece suits crying and hugging homeless man. I mean, it brought the city together. A la Juan was extraordinary. He dominated. Um. I've actually got sitting next to me in my office right now, a piece of the floor from from the from the summit signed by that ninety four Rockets. Oh that's awesome. Where were you sitting, by the way, how old were you in ninety four? So ninety four, I was twenty four.

I was in law school, and I had the incredible good luck. I was working at a law firm in Houston as a summer associate called Baker Bots, and baker Bots happens to represent the Rockets. And I worked there two summers ninety four and ninety five, the two years we won the finals, and and so like. I went to the firm early on and I said, look, you don't need to take me out to launch or dinner. You know often when for the summer programs they wine and dine students quite a bit. I said, don't buy

me a meal all all summer long. I'll have hot dogs at the Hot Ducks stand downstairs. Just get me to the games. That's all I ask is, I want to go to the games. And so I went to a bunch of the games, and and and it's kind of a funny story. So for Games seven, the firm was not going to send the summer associates to the game. They decided they were going to send the associates, the people who were already working at the firm there instead.

And I went into the lawyer who was the kind of lead lawyer for the Rockets, and and I went in with another buddy of mind. We were both summer associates. And I said, uh I, I said, Mike um Amy and I we we've decided we've got to go to Game seven and and so we're just gonna go to a scalp or we're gonna buy tickets. We just we can't let this happen and not go. And and I said, you know, do you know any scalpers maybe where we

could get some decent rates. And we just looked at him, and he looked at us for about thirty seconds in silence, and he just cracked up laughing. He's like, all right, damn it, I'll get you tickets, but you can't tell anyone else. And I said, done, done, And so I ended up getting tickets for for faith value was seventy

five bucks. And I was seated right behind one of the backboards and I was seeing it kind of right to the side side of where Dr J and Bob Costas were broadcasting the game, and and actually part of The fun was when the during the commercial breaks, uh, dr J was bust In Costas going, man, you're Nick suck. That was the funniest part of the whole game, was just hearing dr J do that off camera. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. That was an amazing run. So the NTO game seven, Patrick Ewing never gets it done out there for people. I mean, that was an amazing series and like you mentioned, John Starks just fell apart now the next year to help the Rockets argument. And by the way, this is the Wins and Losses Podcast. I'm Clay Travis. We're talking to Senator Ted Cruz of Texas.

Jordan's came back, ended up losing that series to the Orlando Magic, and then you guys win a second title before Jordan wins. Is three in a row. For some guys out there are young, they may not remember that that era of nineties era NBA basketball, which by the way, is I think the peak, the absolute peak of the NBA in America. Well, I had always defined my perfect basketball game would be a game Rockets against the Bulls

in the finals, game seven. Uh, to have the Rockets win, but to have Jordan's score a hundred points and break Wilts record. Yeah. And and I never was a Scottie Pippen fan, so I actually finished it off with and have Pippin playing for the Bulls tip the ball in accidentally in our bucket, the winning basket for us. Did you watch the Last Dance by the Way documentary? Every

minute of it? And I think my favorite moment is when they play Gary Peyton talking about covering uh, covering Jordan and Jordan's laugh about you know, I think I could handle the of it was so real, it was incredible. It was. That's such a great nostalgic time back, like the Dennis Rodman stories. You knew in the nineties that those were great, but there's so much more fun. I mean, that nineties era Bowl team is I think the most

beloved American sporting franchise ever. Right, you're a Rockets fan. I didn't grow up with a particular affinity for a team, but I was obsessed with the nineties arab Bles, and I think a huge number of people out there listening are, and it was because they were just such an exhilarating team to play and Jordan himself is I think that the signature achievement. I don't know if you go to a concert or you go to watch someone who has

to put on a performance. He was so incredible every night that I don't think people really who haven't experienced him. You mentioned the Jordan's versus Lebron argument. The amount of intensity and effort he brought to bear, whether it was a random Tuesday night in the fourteenth game of the season or whether it was Game seven of the NBA

Finals is unmatched I think ever in the history of basketball. Look, I completely agree, and where I think Jordan took it to another level is at the end of any game that was close, that mattered, you knew Jordan was going to have the ball, you knew he was going to take the shot, you knew he was going to be triple teamed, and you know he was gonna make it. I mean, it was you know that there's all the you know truisms, things like you know, ice water in the veins, but it's just it was a level of

just stone cold killer that that. I mean, he would always always perform. By the way, I'll give you a a fantasy alternative universe, which is if you remember the Rockets, we had two years in a row. We had back to back number one draft picks. We picked Ralph Sampson first year, the second year we picked a la Juan. That draft that a la Juan came out. Jordan was also in the draft. A large one was drafted number one. The Bulls drafted Jordan number three. Sam Booie went number two.

Who was washed in there between those two. I believe, yep, that's exactly right. And and look, you can't fault Houston for drafting a la Juan. He was coming out of University of Houston. Vice slamm A Jamma. I mean it was. It was a great, great pick. But imagine if Houston had gone to the Bulls and said, will trade you Ralph Sampson, who we drafted the year earlier with the number one pick and he just one rookie of the year, will trade you Ralph Sampson for the number three pick.

We could have drafted a la Juan and Jordan's that would have been. That would have been That would have been one hell of a team, even a little bit better than Bill Cartwright. I think in Bill Winnington, we're talking to Senator Ted Cruz. What do you think about James Harden. You're you're a Rockets fan. You had those moments in You've Gotten close. I know you had another game seven where you guys couldn't hit a three four for every dollar on the I mean that was probably

tough for you to watch. That was twenty three miss threes in a row or whatever the heck it was. Um, what do you think about Harden going to Brooklyn? What do you think about the future of the Rockets? Oh, look at my heart is sad at at Harden leaving. He's one hell of an offensive force. You're right that game where we could only shoot threes? Like did nobody remember how to drive to the basket? Like like okay, fine, you're not hitting threes, Like do something else, damn it,

get to the foul line. But but we couldn't do that. I'm sad to see hard and go because he's extraordinary and historic and the offensive outpit. But the last Cup three years is unmatched. I mean, the numbers you have to go back to to Chamberlain to find anything even close that being sad. Listen, I'm this This new team is kind of growing on me. I mean it's it's it came together kind of eclectically. But but you know, John wall if he if he can stay healthy, he

looks like he's got speed, he's got agility. Oladipo is a heck of a player. Um Eric gordon As has been playing very strong, and I'm really liking Boogie Cousins. I mean, Boogie is you know, people forget before he got hurt that he was one hell of a ball player and he's he hustles and then and then we've got p J. Tucker, Christian Would who who I didn't really know till he till he came to Houston, but

but would as planned. I think that the Rockets could surprise folks this year when it was supposed to be a rebuilding year. But but if we could actually stay healthy, I think there's a shot now also in Houston. And I know you're a Houston heiras area sports fan Deshaun Watson is all the rage right to talk about what should happen there. Let's pretend in a different world that you were not a politician and you owned the Houston Texans.

What would you do with Deshaun Watson. Would you sit down with him and just try to figure out a way to work it out, or do you think at this point, based on all the reports out there, it's time to just see if you can get a king's ransom for him using Obviously the Matthew Stafford trade to the Rams is kind of a template of what value Deshaun Watson might carry. The question is is he persuadable? Uh? And and I don't know so, so I think at a minimum you have to sit down and talk with him.

I mean, I've seen the reports that says, let's say you want to leave. That's obviously with the Rockets, what they were saying about Harden. With Harden, that certainly seemed to be the case. Um As a Texans fan, my my heart is grieving. I think Watson is is. I mean, he can move, he can throw. But that being said, I mean the Texans were J. J. Watt to you guys might lose J. J. Watt as well. The talk is that you're basically could be using losing two of

the faces of the franchise. Well and and and we we let Dandrad Hopkins go for nothing, like you just handed him away, you know, one of the elite receivers in the league. We just said okay, by go. That was the moment actually that I started, like several buddies mine, we're texting each other just you know what the hell like like. And the problem is without a receiving corps. You know, for Watson, you can understand you're going four and twelve saying all right, get me out of here.

I want to win. I don't necessarily fault him. What I'd like to see is the team go to Watson and say we're gonna build a Super Bowl contender team around you and make it so worried want to stay. But I don't know if that's doable right now. What about that the Houston Astros? Did you feel like the title was in any way? I know you talked about

Houston not necessarily winning a lot of championships. When the Astros win that championship, did it feel in any way tainted by the reports that came out later about the signals from the dugout, the banging on the trash cans, those, uh, the fallout from that those titles. Yeah, of course it was and and and it Uh, that that was hard. I will say when we won the World Series in that that was an incredible, incredible that that whole playoffs.

I was at games three, four, and five of the of the World Series, so all the Houston games, and and you know, there are moments in sports that are really beautiful. And if you remember what was happening in seen, Houston had just gone through Hurricane Harvey, and and it was this, you know, the second most costly natural disaster

in US history. Was devastating and and there was at the time a a meme online of a guy in his living room sitting on a lawn chair with all the carpet ripped up, all the sheet rock ripped up, no furniture, a TV set playing the game, and he's standing in an Astro's jersey, cheering as his entire home has been destroyed. And and it said, this is why it matters. And I gotta say that victory parade, and I was part of the parade in Houston. We had a million people come out his first World Series. What

everyone the only World Series who every won. But but it was it was a beautiful moment celebration for the city that that was incredibly powerful, and I love that team. Looked at the trash can banging and all of that. Of of course, it tarnishes it. And it just I think all Houston fans are just sad about it. And and you know, my daughter Katherine as a softball player, she's ted now. Um. I took her to Game five.

So it was the day after her eighth birthday. It was October and game five, you remembers, the one that went to one thirty in the morning, was in screadible game and and and it was just Katherine and me. It was daddy daughter, just the two of us. And I told her that. I said, Katherine, you don't realize this, but you're gonna tell your grandkids you were here for the greatest baseball game in the history of the Houston Astros.

And and and it was when the whole sign stealing scandal broke and I had to explain it to Catherine. And she asked, you know about you know, different stars, did they know? And I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, they did know. And and and she said, well, Daddy, what why would they do that? Why would they be willing to cheat? And I said, well, you know, sweethearts, sometimes the pressure to win can be really, really tough. And she looks at me and says, well, don't they know

it doesn't matter if you win or lose. It matters how you play the game. And I was just I just tugged her and I was like, you know, I told her softball coach. I said, See, she's listening. Yeah, that's fantastic. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app search f s are to listen live. We're

talking to Senator Ted Cruz. Wins and Losses. I'm Clay Travis. Uh. A couple of questions for you here as we as we wind down, and obviously we canna get you on more often to talk Houston sports, by the way, because I think people are really going to enjoy this. A couple of things. Um, you talked about Jordan's and I think we agree being the best basketball player of all time. He and Brady probably the greatest team sport athletes of

all time. You've worked in politics for a while, who in your mind is the Jordan's and or the Brady of the political universe, And maybe also the judicial universe. People that you've seen and you're like, man, their talent is just on a different level in terms of the political and judicial universe. In the political world, I'd have to say Ronald Reagan. Um. You know, for me, I've got in in my office here the Senate, I have the busts of three people. I have a bust of Reagan.

I have a bust of Winston Churchill, and I have a bust of of Dr Barton Luther King Jr. And And I think all three of them as leaders, they were visionaries that that they could see beyond enormous challenges, enormous hurdles, and they lead lead their nations through massive challenges. They inspired millions and changed the world. And two of the three suffered an assassin's bullet. And and so I would say Reagan in terms of the ability to inspire and and and to speak to our better angels and

touch our hearts and minds. You know, I was ten years old when Reagan became president. I was eighteen when he left the White House. And I think for a whole generation of Americans, ron Reagan defined what it meant to be president, that hopeful, optimistic belief in America belief and freedom, that that that happy warrior, you know, you know there was a prior generation of politicians that were mean and angry and nasty and and and Reagan rose above that. I think that's something UH A lot more

of us need to do a lot more often. What about judiciary wise? Judicial wise, is there someone who written opinions or I know, again the law background with you, who would you say, is that level the Jordan's the Brady in your mind of the judicial verse? You know two people that I would focus on in in recent history, and number one Anson and Scalia, who was who was brilliant and who I knew well it was an extraordinary writer. Uh. And then number two, Chief Justice William renk Quist, who

was my boss. I worked for Chief Justice renk Quist, was a law clerk for him and and knew him well. And this is actually a good way to wrap things up because there's a connection between Chief Justice renk Quist and the Houston Rockets and and it's going to surprise you. So I'm a third year law student. I get called for an interview from UH to interview with the Chief Justice, and his secretary calls and says, you know, can you be here tomorrow for the interviews. That sure, I'll be

there whenever you want. So I was in Houston, I flew up to d C. I had the interviews at two o'clock in the afternoon. Lasted seventeen minutes. Was a short interview. Uh. The interview went fairly well. And as we're walking out, UM, I had tried something of a joke. I said, I said, you know, Mr Chief Justice, I'm actually bitter sweet to be here right now. And and he looks at me kind of puzzled. He said, well,

what do you mean by that? And I said, well, tonight is Game four of the NBA Finals and and my Houston Rockets are getting way to sweep Orlando and win the second of back to back championships. And I was going to the game tonight, and I gave up the tickets to go to the game to come here and interview with you. And the Chief cracked up laughing, and he said, well, I think you made is the right decision. Uh, and it's probably the reason I got

the jobs. I made him laugh, and he figured, all right, if you made me laugh, it'll it'll be all right to work with him for a year. That's outstanding. Uh, Senator Ted Cruz, I appreciate the time. I know how busy you are. We'll get you on again to talk some more sports in the future. But in the meantime, for people out there who might not be following you, what's the best way for them to track you down and keep up with what you're doing? So on Twitter

at Ted Cruz. I've got a podcast Verdict with Ted Cruz, Uh, that which is doing really well, right, I've I've heard that it's being very well received so far. Yeah. We launched it a year ago during impeachment. It became the number one podcast in the world at that time. I mean it's we've had over twenty five million downloads. Um. And then I just have a new book actually on

the question you asked about the Supreme Court. The book I just wrote is called One Vote Away, How a Single Supreme Court Seat Can Change History And and that became the number one best seller on Amazon and and so it gives the inside story of the Court and the justices and it and it answers in a lot greater depth. Uh. The question you asked about great justices and decisions and how our liberties are are hanging by

a single vote. Let me ask you one more, because you mentioned impeachment and you did that podcast that was so well received. The impeachment trial of Donald Trump. The second impeachment trial of Donald Trump is going to happen. It appears to be dead on arrival, based on the forty five Republicans who have already said, basically, we don't believe it has jurisdiction. You worked in the Supreme Court as a clerk, you're obviously a legal scholar as well.

For people out there who may not be familiar with it, what's going to happen? What do you believe of this second impeachment trial? I think you're exactly right. It's it's not going to go anywhere. Uh, You're going to see the Democrats from the House present their case attacking President Trump. I don't think it makes sense to be doing impeachment. The President is already out of the White House, he's left. I think this is really an exercise in in partisan vindictiveness,

and I think they're big challenges in the country. I think we ought to be working to try to get people back to work and restart the economy coming out of this pandemic. Rather than a petty political trial. But at the end of the day, the result is clear. In order for the president to be convicted in an impeachment trial, it takes two thirds of the Senate. That's sixty senators. That's not gonna happen. All the Democrats are going to vote to convict him, and the facts don't matter,

by the way, they just hate him. All of the Democrats are going to vote to convictim. And I think there'll be a handful of Republicans who do as well. You mentioned the vote that was that's probably a pretty good proxy for where we end up, but it's gonna be well short of and so it will be a partisan demonstration by the Democrats and then it will go nowhere at the end of the day. Would you ever want to be on the Supreme Court as opposed? I know you've run for presidents several times, but at some

point would that ever have an appeal to you? I've actually runs the president once, so alright, several different primaries, several different primaries. You were you were a candidate force so ib but would you would it have any appeal to you to ever be on the Supreme Court? You

know it curiously, it does not UM. And this is one of the things I actually talk about it at some length and in in my book One Vote Away is that for all three of the Supreme Court vacancies that happened UH in the last four years, President Trump had very serious conversations with me about whether I wanted to go to the Court, and he put me on the list of potential justices he would appoint. And what I told him each time is I didn't want the job.

That that that it was fine if he wanted to put me on the list, but I wouldn't wouldn't accept the job, and I didn't want it. UM. I think a judge's responsibility is to stay out of political fights and policy fights. If I were ever a judge, I do that. I don't want to stay out of political policy fights. I want to be right in the middle of them. And the right place to do that is

the politically elected branches. It's the US Senate. It is that under our constitution is where we should resolve these issues. Ted Cruz, I appreciate it, look forward to talking to you again sometime soon, and encourage people to to check out your podcast as well as that most recent book awesome appreciate in it. That is Ted Cruz. I am Clay Travis. This has been the Wins and Lost his podcast. Go download all of them check them out. I hope

you enjoyed our conversation. We'll be back soon. Thanks for listening again. Wins and Lost his podcast