Clay chats with Penn State HC James Franklin

coach appreciate you coming on. If I had told you twenty five years ago that one day you would be introduced as Penn State football coach James Franklin, your response would have been, what, Yeah, I wouldn't have thought so for for a couple of reasons. You know, I set at my opening press conference that this was my dream job, being from Pennsylvania, growing up just outside of Philadelphia. But the reality is, I didn't really think it would be

you know, attainable. Um. You know, I thought it would stay kind of within the family that had been here for the years. So um, you know, I just just didn't really feel like it was an option. But you know, when I when I had the opportunity, obviously it made a lot of sense. You wanted to play football at Penn State when you were growing up. What kind of athletes were you and when did you realize it might

not happen, that that aspiration might not become a reality. Well, I actually came to camp here my junior year in in high school, and um, you know, Jim called Well was the quarterbacks coach at the time, if I remember correctly, And um, you know, I ended up, you know, go into a division to school e Straussburg, had a great experience there. Went there thinking I was going to play in the NFL, um, which which makes no sense now, but went They're thinking I was going to do that.

I had a really good college experience. Um, you know, played played in one of those European leagues when I got done, and then and then got into coach and you know, really got into coaching as a graduate assistant to get my master degree. Um, so it just kind of went from there. But um, but yeah, I I you know, I thought I was good enough to play at this level. You know, I realized probably after four

or five years out of college that I wasn't. Um And I went to the right place, in the right level and had a great college experience were you an athlete growing up? Yeah, so I played baseball shortstop and picture and messed around a little bit with basketball, but I was more of a baseball football guy. In football, I played running back when I was young, and then trans trans uh you know, transition to quarterback in June in middle school and like, uh, I guess probably seventh grade.

Were you good? I mean, obviously you played in college, but when you were playing when you were a kid, were you the best player on the team? What kind of athlete would you describe yourself as as a kid? Yeah, at the time, I thought I was really good. Now looking back at it, I was. I was fairly average, but um, yeah, I was was one of the better teams.

You know, excuse me, I was one of the better players in the area, and you know, one of the better players in the region and that kind of stuff, and um, you know again, had had a had a really good high school career and then went on and I had a really good, you know, college career at the Division two levels. Um, you know, I actually was a it was a finalist for the Division to Heisman or you know, I guess, you know whatever, regional finalists or whatever it was. For the Division two Heisman. So

I had had a really good college experience. My head coach, my college head coaches was kind of a legend. He was. He was at my college, I think as the head coach for like fifty two years or something like that. Um so, um, you know, it just was in a was in a very very good situation and and uh and had a great college experience. All right. When you go into coaching, you said you went in initially to get your master's degree. And I'm looking here and it

says your first coaching job. And sometimes this is inaccurate on bios. Sometimes it doesn't catch. It was that Cutstown where you were a wide receiver coaches that right, it was. Yeah, it's pronounced Kutztown, which is school. Yeah, yeah, I know, I get, I get. So what was what was your salary when you were at how do you how do you pronounce it Kutztown Kottowns a Division two school here

in the state of Pennsylvania. Um. I actually coached a tight ends, I think if I remember correctly, and I made fifteen hundred dollars for the year I lived in I lived in a local guys basement or not a basement kind of a side room named Joe Ludwig. I still talked to Joe. I rented the room for from him. I filled soda machines up in the morning before before work and school started. The players used to make fun of me. I'll be driving this white band around campus

film soda machines up. And then in the off season I barred he that on Sundays at a local at a local spot. So I made fifteen hundred dollars for the year. That is amazing. So so was this. And just so you know, uh, Kutztown, there was a guy by name of John Mowdley who was there when I was there, who ended up being a really good player in the NFL for a number of years of linebacker

with the Denver Broncos and and other places. Just a little piece of information there on Kutztown, which you pronounce is cutting down. I had no idea. Be sure to catch live editions about kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. So when you're when you're at Cootstown, I believe hopefully I'm getting closer there. You're making fifteen dollars you're driving around filling up soda machines, Like, are you thinking to yourself

someday I'm gonna be a head coach? Or what was your game plan at that point in time? Like how many hours do you think you were working a day? Uh? You know, fifteen dollars for the year is crazy. But I always like to start with how people got their started, because I think there's a lot of people out there listening. And this is the Winds and Losses podcast. I'm Clay

Travis talking with Penn State football coach James Franklin. Who come out of high school or come out of college more likely, and they're like, Oh, I'm twenty two or twenty three, I need to be made in fifty k. I gotta have this job. I gotta have this car, I gotta have this apartment. And coaching is not like that. What I do for a living in sports media is not like that. A lot of these places you have to literally start at the bottom or sometimes even below

the bottom. Yeah yeah, so you know, for for me, I actually at that point still didn't even though I wanted to coach. I just I got my undergraduate degree in psychology. I thought I was gonna get my doctorate in the psychology or psychiatry and kind of make a difference in people's lives that way. And UH did two internships at two psychiatric hospitals, an adult and the adolescent,

and realized that's not what I wanted to do. And then when as I was coaching, I realized, Hey, this is something you know that I do really enjoy and this is something where I can still make a difference in people's lives. And at that level, you know, you're offering you know, partial scholarships to kids you know that maybe wouldn't have gone to college without it, you know, So it was it was very different, But yeah, I think to your point, I made my first year Kutztown.

Then I went and played overseas for for six months, then went back to East Straullisburg as a graduate assistant for five thousand dollars for the year. Then the next year, UM, I went to James Madison, got my first big break, and that one I think I made UH thirteen thousand dollars for the year. And then I went to Washington State to work for Mike Price. Right after the Rose Bowl was Ryan Leaf. I was there when he was working out for UM pro day for you know, for

the NFL, and I made five thousand dollars. I've been out of college four years and was making five thousand dollars. Then I got my first big break at Idaho State in Pocatello, Idaho, making twenty three three, and Clay, you couldn't tell me nothing. I thought I was you thought you were loaded at living in Pocatello, Idaho, had my own little apartment, my actually my special teams coordinator. Now

Joe Lord was my college roommate. We split a room there and uh we were living good Man twenty three and Hotel Idle, and uh we were living good and and and and feeling good. I also see on a resume here that did you coach in Denmark? Did you coach football and Denmark? Yeah? So, so when I got done at Kutztown UM for the spring, I went and was the quarterback and offensive coordinator in Roskilde, Denmark for

six months. Which it was a great experience for me because I, you know, I made the decision to do it, hadn't really thought it all through, and got on a plane for thirteen hours to a country where I didn't know anybody and didn't speak the language. It was one of the more difficult dialects for English speaking people to learn. Um, I was able to be the offensive coordinator. They had never been very good. Um. You know, my contract ended

at the end of the regular season. We ended up making it to the national championship game, but my contract ran out and I had um agreed to be a

graduate assistant back at EA Stroudsburg. So I actually low back at the end of the season, flew back, went to school for a week, started grad school with East Straussburg, flew back thirteen hours, flew back that weekend on Friday, played in the National Championship game on Saturday, won the National championship on Saturday, then flew back for school on Monday again. So you won a national championship in Denmark.

In Denmark, Yeah, it was amazing too, because if I remember when I got there, I got to the first meeting and all the guys they have three Americans on each team and everybody else kind of just paid their own way. So you get there and there's all these guys that are smoking cigarettes and drinking beer, and uh, you know, it was it was and like our uniforms looked like NASCAR. There was like advertising all over our uniforms,

so it was it was an interesting deal. Had you ever been to Europe before you ended up playing and coaching in Denmark? Yeah? So, so you know, my my dad was in the Air Force and was stationed in Manchester, England, met my mom, they eloped to Ireland. He brought her back to this really romantic city called Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and

they started popping out beige babies, me and my sister. Um. So, so I've been to England a few times visiting family, so everybody on my mom's side of the family isn't is in England. And then my dad got a job in Trenton, New Jersey, working for a General Motors plant and we moved there. Um and kind of that's where I was raised, just outside of Philadelphia. So that had to be pretty cool. And I think I'm not messing up right. Didn't Penn State play overseas? Didn't you guys

play in uh In? Didn't you guys play in the in Ireland? Yeah? So my first game was a total nightmare. Um. We opened the season in Dublin, Ireland against Central Florida. Georgio Leary was the head coach. It was perfect at that time because it was Georgio Leary first, Bill O'Brien so too, two good Irish boys Dublin. It didn't turn out that way when Billy left and and I showed up.

But yeah, it was you know, Central Florida. How to buy the next week, We didn't, so we've you back Sunday, got back like four in the morning, had practiced that day. It wasn't an ideal situation. Um our equipment guy had retired like a month before two games, so trying to get all because you gotta remember, you're going to a country who doesn't have football, so you have to take

everything with you. So it was it was. It was an interesting trip, but we were able to win that game with the last second field goal and and um you know that was when we first got the job, you know, after you know, pretty challenging time and Penn State's history, all right, So this is interesting because you're talking about all the logistics involved in making a travel situation. I know you pretty well and I remember one of

the first times I met you at Vanderbilt. You were going through looking at the photos that have been taken to decide like what the senior photos were gonna be that we're gonna be in a pamphlet or something. Right of the players, you're very hands on with a ton of the details they go on at every program. Did

you always be that? Were you always that way in terms of having your hand in you know, when you're at Vanderbilt marketing, I know you do it at Penn State now in fact that I'll just say it, like right after we went up and watched a couple of year games we've been up for, and one of the things you ask is what was the environment, Like, what did you think of the experience? A lot of coaches are just football guys. You're not just a football guy.

Do you attribute that maybe to coming up through some of these schools that are not you know, I would say like sort of the name brand schools where you have to work to get attention or do you think you would have done that even if you had started off at the Alabama's and the Michigan's and the Penn States of the world. That's still just your personality. Well,

I think it is my personality, There's no doubt about it. Um. It's funny, you know, I would I would describe myself as a micro manager, and I would say a lot of times it's funny because what I think drives people crazy is when you say you're not a micro manager and then you show up and the person is, you know, I'm a micro manager, but I don't want to be. So what I mean by that is, I'm gonna be a micro manager until you show me you can do the job, and then once you do the job, I'm

stepping way. But ultimately I'm gonna be held responsible, so I'm gonna make sure it's done the way we want it done. But I do think your point is a good one. Is when you're at small schools and you have to wear a lot more hats, um, and even at a place like Vanderbilt in the SEC where you don't have maybe um a lot of the infrastructure that maybe the other schools do, you have to do it

and you have to do it all. And I think at the end of the day, you know, I'm a big believer that the details matter and the consistency in your message matters. So um, you know, I'm gonna be all over everything, um until I know someone's gonna do things the way the way you know we need them

to be done. And that's where I'm fortunate to have a guy like Dwight Galton, who has been with me, you know, since since two thousand, our strength coach, and you know Andy Frank, who runs our recruiting, has been with me my entire head coach career. And Michael Hazel, one of our ops guys, and Kevin Threlko. Those guys have been with me ever since the first day at Vanderbilt and all the way all the way to now here at Penn State. So there's value. And that my

defensive coordinators with me the whole time. So, UM, you know, there's there's tremendous value in that. UM, no doubt about it, because those guys know how we operate. What did Maryland mean for you? You You talked about making three living in I think Postcatello, Idaho. You keep naming places that I don't even know that I've ever said before. Uh. And then you get a gig at Maryland and you come all the way back across the country. You're back on the East Coast where you spend a lot of time

growing up. What did getting that job with the terms do for your career? Well, Maryland was my my first big break. Maryland was my first big break in the profession, big time football. Um. Again, you know, it's like a lot of things, you know, I was. I was lucky in some ways. So my buddy coach there, and he called me and said, hey, the receiver's coach, Craig Johnson was leaving to go to the Titans, I think at the time, and UM said, you know, um, I'm gonna

try to get you involved in this job. Well, I happened to be home, and I think it was spring break, and I happened to be home in Philly because they're probably not gonna fly a guy in from pocatah idah. So I talked to the head coach and he said, hey, why don't you why don't you drive up and spend the day with us, And um, it was able to get the job. Ron vander Linden was the head coach at the time. I got my first big break, went really,

you know, went really well. Was excited about it. Well, at the end of that season, I'm driving across um a bridge from Pennsylvania into New Jersey. My phone rings and it's one of my players and he said, hey, coach. Are you okay? His name is Jeffar Williams and now coaches at Virginia Tech. He's like, are you okay? And I'm like, what do you mean? I'm like okay. He's like, you guys just got fired. I'm like, what. Pull over

to the side of the road. That's how I found out about it, and then I was fortunate Ralph Regan came in uh and retained me, and we went on a pretty historic run there at Maryland went three games, uh three years, we won ten games or more, one a SEC championship, played in the BCS Orange Bowl, and and my my kind of career prop propelled from there. So I'm very appreciative of my time that Maryland and

Ralph region had a huge impact on my career. The funny thing is Ron Vanderlin, who was the head coach at Maryland. He retired here in State College, Pennsylvania day speaking at our clinic next week. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart radio apps. Search f s R to listen live. So we're talking to penn State football coach James Franklin, I'm Clay Travis is wins and losses.

When you're at Maryland and you start recruiting a higher level of player, I think it's probably fair to say did your recruiting methods change? And and one thing I'm kind of fascinated by is how do you develop your recruiting pitch? For lack of a better term, Right, Like you're basically in the sales business. You have to be able to go out and convince sixteen seventeen, eighteen year olds that you can take them to another level in football,

academics and everything else. Did it come naturally? Did you watch the way other people recruited? How do you become a good recruiter? Well? I think, first of all, I have a very curious personality. I'm very curious about a lot of different things. Um, I'm a sponge in terms of trying to gain as much information as I cancel. Yeah, it's it's like you described. I think, in any business,

what do you do? You get your foot in the door, and then you try to find who are the guys on that staff or within that industry that are really good? Um at it? So you know I was coaching receivers. You're gonna find the best receivers coaches in the country, and you know you're gonna go visit those guys. Jerry Sullivan was one of the top receivers coaches in the country's time in NFL. I went and visited him. Um in Arizona the Cardinals. Um on my staff a guy

by named Mike Locksley is now the head coach at Maryland. Uh, he was a great recruiter. So I kind of, you know, watched him and studied him and other guys, and then you know, and then when you're on the road, the same thing when you when you see another college coach in a high school and how he's interacting with the high school coaches and how he is with it with the players, and you're learning and asking a lot of questions. And I think at the end of the day, all

those things are great. Ultimately, you better be authentic and you better be true to who you are, because um, that's what people want, you know, they want they want people that are comfortable in their own skin and authentic and gonna be honest and transparent. So um, that's that's what I tried to do, and I was able to learn a lot in a in a short period of tone. How many hours on an average week do you think

you spend either recruiting, preparing for recruiting, watching film. I know it probably varies based on the time of the year, but what percentage of your day to day is focused on recruiting As a head football coach at Penn State, I think it's it's probably fifty percent of my time. So, you know, fifty percent of my time is some form of recruiting UM, you know, and then you got you know, the rest of your time is on football. But then both of those situations you kind of get pulled in

a bunch of different directions. So you know, if there's an issue that comes up that you have to deal with, you're getting pulled out, you know, whatever the situation maybe that you're having to deal with UM players. You know, a player's girlfriend breaks up with him and he's heartbroken over that, or or you know, parents are getting divorced or whatever it may be. You know, as a you know,

college is very different than the NFL. NFL is football and football UM scheme and fundamentals and technique and things like that. Where in college you wear you wear a lot more hats. You know, you're a fundraiser. Um, you know you're a recruiter. You know you're a schemer, you're a fundamentalists as well. Um, you're doing a lot of different things. You're a mentor, you're a big brother, your father figure to these guys. Um, you're just you're You're wearing a lot more hats than you do it than

you do in the NFL. What's the best recruit tape you ever saw a player that you saw and you said, oh my god, I've got to get him on the phone. Is there one that you remember seeing and thinking this guy is unbelievable? Because I know everybody sends you the best tape that they've ever had, right, the twenty best plays, whatever it is. Is there one that you remember watching and thinking, oh my god, who is this kid? We

got to find him? Well, I think what you're asking me is is a guy that that we actually recruited, you know, because I don't want to get into just some guy that you know, when I was in high school or college or or you know, did recruit. But the guy, the guy to me that that we recruited that just still um was electric. Um, you know, obviously was Tavon Austin. You know, when I was early in my career at Maryland, he was from Baltimore. I was

responsible for Baltimore recruited heck at him. If you haven't watched Tavon's high school highlight tape, you should watch it, as well as his college tape at West Virginia, which which was really dynamic. Um. But you know, obviously, now becoming a head coach, I've been a part of so many you know, great players. Um, that he's a guy that first jumps into my mind right away because he just was so dynamic. Was the undersized guy but so quick and exposed. I still talked to Tavon, Um, you know,

so it's it's interesting. But he's a guy that if you haven't watched his high school and college tape before, you should watch it because it's pretty special. I remember when you go to Vanderbilt, and I think I'm correcting this, you started taking helicopters around to watch multiple high school

football games. If I'm not mistaken, and I love I've always said, and you know, because you listen to the show back in the day in Nashville that you and Bruce Pearl had a lot in common, and I always liked the way that both of you carried yourselves because there's a big showman element to what you do. Do you remember how the idea I think I'm correct in the in the helicopter idea. You remember how the idea came to you? And does it? I mean it has to write like you land in the field next to

a next to a football stadium. Everybody's looking over and they may not know who Vanderbilt's football coaches at the time, but suddenly you started to get a lot of buzz from doing that. Right, Well, it serves two purposes. So it started when we were at the University of Maryland and you're trying to go see two kids on one night. And the problem is if you if you have two kids in the area and you only go see one recruit, you don't write the other, you're out because you've offended

that guy. So so say we're on going out on Friday night in the Maryland d C, d MV area and you've got a kid in Baltimore and you've got a kid in d C. Well that's only like a half hour apart. But when you're trying to go see a first half of one game and then fight traffic and get top. You're not gonna make it. So that's

where it really started. So it does two things. Yeah, you get the efficiency to make make sure you can maximize a half at one game and then be able to go see it at the second half of another. That's that's the first reason, and then the SEC second reason. Yeah, there's no doubt about it that there's some sex appeal to it. There's no doubt that makes that kid feel special. But here the helicopter's coming over the stadium, landing on the field. Um, and and everybody in the town and

everybody school knows you're coming to see him. So it definitely does both of those things. Um. Obviously, you know those things are probably more important at that time at a place like Vanderbilt, when you know no one had ever done that before. Um and UM you know, uh, we we tried to push the limit, says much as we possibly could, um, so that we could be a part of some of those battles. But it's funny because everybody else in the in the in the SEC had

private planes and we didn't. And I'll never forget, I'll never forget being at SEC head coaches meetings and that was you know, Saban and that was less Miles and that was Spurrier at that time. And I'm sitting in there as the first time head coach and they're all talking about private planes and how this new a D came in and put this policy that on the private plane there's got to be two pilots, you know, to make sure you know, something happens with one, there's another pilot.

What a great idea that was. And I was like, it's funny because because Avandabilt we always have two pilots. And they're like, are you seriously go yeah, Southwest? You know there's only pilots in Southwest behind that locked door. Because we didn't have any of that. So the helicopters were really valuable, and being right in Nashville, you could get them and they land right there on the practice field.

Be sure to catch live editions about kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. We're talking to James Franklin pin State football coaches wins and losses. I'm Clay Travis. Oh you mentioned that, uh, and I want to go to it. You get your

first head coaching job at Vanderbilt. And I've talked on my radio showing on this program about how when I got the job at Fox, the first big event we had, I remember looking around and being like, holy crap, that's Troy Aikman, that's Jimmy Johnson, that's Terry Bradshaw, you know, all of the luminescent superstars that I had watched do Fox. You know, Joe Buck, all the guys who've been calling the big games for years and years, and suddenly I'm

one of them. And it's like a pinch yourself moment when you walk in as a head coach for the first time and you see Nick Saban and I think at the time it was Less Miles and uh and and a lot of guys who have had tremendous success that probably you've been watching from afar. What does that feel like to suddenly be in the same room and have the same job and suddenly be competing against him? Steve Steve Spurrier was another way, you know, like we're

talking about iconic and legendary coaches, not just coaches. Yeah, the SEC was loaded at that time, not not that it isn't always, but it was out at that time with some some really you know, um, like you're saying, iconic coaches. So I used to always try to find a way to sit, you know, right between Les Miles and Steve Spurrier because it was like straight comedy show

the whole time. And then the other thing is Spurry was the only one that would mess with Saban, so he would kind of jab and poke it at, poke at Saban, uh during the meetings. So I'm just sitting there kind of a young ball coach trying to kind of take it all in and figure it out. Um and everybody, you know, everybody was great, you know, Um, I learned a lot. You know. Mike's live was a commissioner, and I just thought he was magical in that room.

How he could manage all those personalities and manage all those egos, and you'd leave the room and everybody was on the same page. And it may have not have been in everybody's best interest, but it was in the best interest of the SEC. I just thought he was magical in that room in terms of managing all those personalities. So, uh, it was, it was, it was pretty it was pretty amazing. You get hired by David Williams, who was my law

professor at Vanderbilt, an absolutely phenomenal guy. What did he mean to Vanderbilt and a Vanderbilt athletics and what did he mean to you? David is like a father figure to me. Was was like a father figure to me. Um obviously was someone that took a chance on me. Um. You know, I wasn't a hot sexy name when when I got offered a Vanderbilt job. Um, and David was great.

The first year, Um, David, David was tough. I'd go to David with things that we wanted to do, and you know, I'd find out what other schools were doing and we wanted to do it as well, and you know, Um, David would ask me, well, what about this? What about this? What about this? You couldn't go with Dave to David with things unless you were really thorough. And after a year he realized that every time that I went to him with something, it was well thought out, it was detailed,

that it was organized. So from that point on, UM, it was basically, you're the expert of football. I'm the expert at Vanderbilt, and let's work together to get this thing done, and we were able to get a lot done in a very short period of time. John Ingram was a big part of that as well. Um, you know, the Ingram family there in Nashville and on the board. Um, and we were able to get a lot done in a short period of time. But David was like a father figure for me. He was a mentor professionally. UM

and um you know him and Gail, his wife. Um. You know, I'm still very close with Gal. I went to the funeral when David passed. Um, you know, so, but I still get kind of emotional thinking about it because because David. David was a giant, and David always amazed me because you'd see David and be wearing sweats, and you know, people wouldn't know what to expect. Then David would open his mouth and just blow people away. And he wouldn't say a whole lot, but then when

he did, he would just blow people away. People don't realize. You know, he was not only the athletic director, but he was to the chief legal counsel for the university as well. And you know, I don't know if there's anybody in the country that could wear those two hats on college campus. Look, I said before, but he was my taxation of nonprofit entities professor in law school. And that sounds like the most boring topic of magic. Like

your your eyes probably rolled back in your head. Everybody who's listening right now is like, my god, of all the law classes you could have, the guy was brilliant and he could play the tax code like it was a piano, like he was, you know, one of the like he was Elton John or Stevie Wonder right. Like it opened my eyes so much to how much creativity there can be in oftentimes what seems to be a

very dry and uninteresting topic. And a big part of the way he would talk was he had done things at Ohio State and at Vanderbilt, which are five oh one c three institutions nonprofit entities. But I just remember being blown away by how good that class was, and then I actually got there. You know, he would bring me back and occasionally I would speak to sports law class, and what always amazed me. And I'm sure you you see this too, because it becomes such an important part

of coaching. You have to know something so well in order to instruct someone that you can make it simple. And there are a lot of people who are smart that can't explain complex things in ways that are easily able to be digested, and he could. And I think that's always the most impressive thing about intelligence to me, is functional intelligence as opposed to just intelligence. Yeah, that that's the most powerful tool that they're the most successful

people that are able to do that. Take a complex, challenging subject and make it, like you're saying, make it manageable and make it easily understandable. Uh. And David David was unbelievable with that and in so many different ways, he really was. And uh, if you've never if you never had the opportunity. David was a huge Motown guy, and he had a motown presentation that he would do sometimes in different settings, and that was that was unbelievable.

His presentation in his history and his understanding emote town and the roots of it were phenomenal. So David was great. And then obviously being there, you know, in Nashville and you know, um, you know, being able to open a lot of different you know, um, you know doors in that community for me as well, UM, was was powerful.

So David David's a huge mentor in my life. You win back to back nine games, which hadn't been done since before women got the right to vote at Vanderbilt, I think, which is a way of putting it in context. And then you get an opportunity. I'm sure I know you had opportunities before, but Penn State comes open. How hard was it to move to Penn State, UH and

make that decision to leave? Well, I think obviously if you just take the relationship aspect out of it, you take the emotional aspect out of it, then a lot of people, and I don't mean this to to to offend anybody, but a lot of people say it's an easy decision. It was not. Um. I actually had a you know, interview uh with Penn State. I interviewed with

the Houston Texans. I interviewed with the University of Texas, and I had interviews with the Detroit Lions and the Washington Redskins, UM and you know, then I get offered the Penn State job, and I struggled. I struggled with whether to take the job because I cared so much about that place. I cared so much about the players on the team. We had invested so much. We had poured our hearts and soul into that place that it's

hard to walk away. And you know, people are advising me that I needed to do it, but um, I remember, you know, we had a team meeting that I was going to bring the whole team in and I was gonna get up in front of them and say goodbye. And and I remember being on the phone, you know, with my wife, um and and struggling on you know, what to do, and not sure if I wanted to do it. So you know, it's hard. I know a lot of times coaches get criticized for these decisions they make,

and you know, the money that's in it. I I get all those these I get all those things, but these are these are very difficult decisions because I do believe that most coaches are in this for the right reasons. And it's about it's about the players, and it's about education, and it's about developing. It's also about winning. I get that too, but I think most guys are in it

for the right reasons. Um uh, you know, and obviously the opportunities and the finances are a factor too, but it's also about where can you go where you have the opportunity to be able to win because this is a cutthroat business and if you don't win, um, you're gonna be out. So it's hard to balance all those feelings and those emotions. But um, it's not as easy as maybe it appears. To be your wife foomy you just mentioned. You didn't say her name, but she's fantastic.

She's very similar in many ways to my wife. Really smart, but also totally unwilling to let you get a pass on anything, i e. She calls you on your bullshit like my wife calls me on my bullshit. Right, Um, why is that important? Like in general, because when you work as many hours as you do, Uh, it can be a challenge. I know, you've got kids and everything else. What is you know, A big part of success, I really believe is the environment that's not just at work

but also is at home. How instrumental is she to allowing you to be as successful as you are? Well, I think it's it's two parts, not number one. It's someone that's gonna ground you, you know, someone that's always going to tell you the truth, never gonna allow you. Because there's a lot of people when you have some success and this is wins and losses. Who will tell you you're great, right that they will, they will, they will pump you up, and they're not necessarily being honest. Yes, funny,

laugh at all, You're not funny all of it. So having someone at home that's gonna be your truth teller, someone that's always going to tell you the truth, that ultimately cares about you, and and and make sure that you know every single day this is what you do. It's not it's not who you are. It doesn't define you.

So I think that is that is critical. Um, And then I think it's also you better have someone that's not only smart and strong but also independent because, um, you know, the reality is there's a lot of nights where I'm not home to tuck the girls in bed, and and they don't see me when I go to

when I go to work in the morning. So so not only someone that's gonna be, you know, a foundation for me and someone that grounds me, and someone's going to be my truth teller, but also someone that's strong enough and independent enough to to be to be a

single mom. Sometimes I hate to describe it that way, but there's times a year where it is like that you know, so, Um, you know, having that person is I think critical behind the scenes, because we all know if you're if you're healthy and happy at home, then you've got a chance to be healthy and happy at work. You mentioned a bunch of NFL interviews there you coached one year in Green Bay. What's the biggest difference between

coaching and the NFL and coaching in college. Well, for me that there's things that I really liked about the NFL. There was things that I did, There's things I like about college, and there's things that that I that I don't. Um, you know, one of the things that I would, I'd say the big difference about the NFL is when when you're off in the NFL, you're off, like those guys go on vacation who turn their phones off. They're gone,

you know. Um, in college, you're never really off. Um. You know, the end of the day, they go home to NFL guys go home to their families. You go home to yours. Your phone is not ringing, where in college, recruits are calling you, players are calling you with issues that you're trying to mentor and help them through. You're never really off in college. So I think that's the biggest difference. But the other end of it is you don't have the impact. I think it comes back to

your why, like it does in any business. Why you do it, What motivates you, what drives you to get out of bed in the morning and and try to be the best version of yourself. You're possibly ken. So for me, I got into this profession. Um, I love football, but I got in this profession because I wanted to help help young men. I wanted to use the game of football to teach life, life, life lessons, championship habits that are going to allow to be successful football, yes,

but more importantly in life. And the NFL that's not what it was. It was football and football only and you weren't having that type of impact on their on their development as people. Um. So I loved it. It was awesome, had a great experience. I was in you know, I was in Green Bay and um you know, Brett farg was our quarterback. We drafted Aaron Rodgers that year. He was a rookie. You know, with us that that

entire year. Donald Driver, who I still talked to, Um it was was was my wide out, was one of my whiteouts. Was kind of the leader of the room for me. But I had a great experience at a great experience Green Bay a little bit like a college you know, feel anyway, But I had a great experience. Does any part of you, let's say you win a national championship or two at Penn State and you've been close,

you've been in the mix. I think I've got you probably know the data because I know, uh, I know Penn States tweeted out, but I think it's something like the last five years, the three winning coaches in college football are Nick Saban, Davo Sweeney, and you. Uh so you're in obviously high high company there for current college football coaches. Does any part of you think at some point I'd like to be a head coach in the NFL, might be fifteen years from now, you know you coached,

or your seventy if you wanted to. Does any part of you think that that would be a challenge you would like to explore At this point right now, I'm so consumed on Penn State. I'm so consumed on our players here and what we're building. And again when it goes back to my why and why I do this? Yeah, um, you know it's I'm totally entrenched in this, But is there an aspect where in the off seas is in you know, people call or reach out and there's interest, and you kind of take a minute and you think

about those things. Um, it's hard for me to say, you know, how I'll feel ten years from now, or how how I'll feel fifteen years from now. But right now, my focus is completely on Penn State. UM. You know, I have a little personal goal of you know, being the first African American coach to win a national championship. UM. You know, So you know, right now all of our energy and and UM focuses on that, you know, So it's not a whole lot of room left for anything

else at this point? Do you feel more pressure as a black head coach to try to open the door? And look, I'm a white guy, so I don't understand the experience. But if you talk to black head coaches, you can say, hey, it's not only that I feel like the standard is maybe more difficult. It's that if I fail, the door doesn't stay open as wide for the next guy who might come up. Is that an accurate thought in your mind? Now, you said you want to be the first black head coach to win a

college football national championship. Is that partly for kicking the door more open to provide more opportunity to the next James Franklin, Well, yeah, I think that's that's all. That's that's in all of the back of our minds is you know, it's it's critical that that I'm successful. It's critical that we're successful because it will create more opportunities. You know, if you look at the numbers right now and the hundreds and thirty two Division one schools, there's

there's not a whole lot um. And you know, I remember sitting back at that Super Bowl UM when it was love E Smith and herm I think it was, And I remember everybody saying, well, this is a pretty special moment. I think, sorry to cut you off. I think it was a lovely Smith and and uh Tony Dungee because I think that was the one that yeah, you're yeah, you're exactly right, I misspoke. UM. But I remember by kind of sitting back and saying, hey, this is a historical moment here, and this is going to

open the doors. I don't know if it necessarily has done that. You look at the NFL. I don't know if that's necessarily done that, but but obviously when people can sit back and see people, um, you know, in that job and in that role, um, you know, I

think it helps. So yeah, I think, you know, I've always kind of had the mentality that, you know, I want to do it not only for Penn State, and I want to do it not only for our players and our assistant coaches and and and and for James Franklin, but also for the for the young guys that are coming up. Hopefully it will create more opportunities. I do think there's a little bit more pressure, um, you know,

because you feel like you're carrying that extra weight. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live. We're talking to James Franklin, Penn State football coach. I'm Clay Travis Wins and Losses. I mentioned that I've been up to Penn State seen the experience you guys have created a phenomenal situation there.

Uh the game that I was up for most recently, I think I've only been up for one, my wife has been up for a few You guys lost late to Ohio State. Uh, when you lose a game that is very close and is is right on the hit the edge of victory or defeat, how long does it take? This is a wins and Losses podcast. How long does it take you to get over that loss? And how do you distill something from it? Do you think you

learn more from wins or defeat? Well? I think I think that's a that's a great subject and we could probably talk about that for a while. That that's an area really the last couple of years that I knew I had to get better because I think as a head coach, um, if you don't get over it, then nobody does. The assistant coaches don't get over the players don't get over it. And that's after wins or losses. You gotta move on, You gotta you gotta flush it,

and you gotta move on. It's poison to get caught up in either either either one the praise, you know, or the criticism. Um, and I probably didn't do a good enough job of that in my past of how to manage the loss is how to move on from the losses the real it is. Um, you know, you can learn a lot from them, There's no doubt about

it if you're handled the right way. The problem is is everybody gets defensive and sensitive after losses, and what you hope you can do is you can grow through wins and you know, make sure everybody in your organization realizes, Okay, we won these games, but these are still things that we have to get corrected so we can continue this. And I think in a lot of ways, the winning is harder to handle for college aged kids, um than

than the losses are. Sometimes sometimes they're more resilient, um, you know after the losses, but the wins you've got to make sure you're staying grounded. So uh, it's hard to go. And that's something I really focused on the last couple of years that I can't ask everybody else to move on and attack the next objective. Um, if I haven't done that. This is a ridiculous comparison, But I'm coaching eight nine year old basketball. We've lost a game that we should have won to win that you

caampionship eight nine year old basketball, James. I couldn't sleep that night. I was going over every play in my head. I didn't even want to confess to my wife that I couldn't sleep because it was eight nine year old basketball. But as the coach, I felt like we had blown it, and maybe I should We should have won the game, right,

we were the more talented team. When you lose a game, are it has to be the case that it's almost impossible to go to sleep afterwards, because for a game like that, your your intensity level has to be so high that it's almost impossible to come back down right. Yet you have to do it because six days later the same things happening all over again. How do you control your emotions and do it? And Sundays are a grind. Sundays are like Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, there are the heaviest

days of our week. So that's a problem because after the big wins, it's hard to get to sleep. And after the losses, Uh, it's really challenging for me. I'm gonna hit the bed. Don't remember getting in the bed. Ball you're out because you're working so many hours. You just hit the bed and you're out. Correct. Like my wife, it really pisces her off because we'll go in, I'll brush my teeth, she brushes her teeth, she washes her face, or jumps in the shower. By time she gets out,

I'm gone, like I'm out, you know. But then the problem is I'll wake up in the middle of the night to go to bathroom or something like that, like like we do once you get over forty five years old, and then my mind starts spinning and I start thinking about all the things, and then I can't go back to sleep. So then I'll just I'll come into office because just laying there in the bed it doesn't make

a whole lot of sense. But then it puts you behind, put you behind on sleep, and then all of a sudden, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. You know, by the time that next you know, Thursday night comes, you're you're you're pretty war out. So that's the challenge. How can you Because for most coaches and me, I can really operate at a pretty high level with five hours of sleep at night. But if I start getting under that um and those days add up, then

then it can be challenging. And then I'll us you're less effective and you're not as productive, and you're not making as good as decisions. So if you're not careful those things. Can those things conspiral? You know those things conspiral? Be sure to catch live editions about kicked the coverage with Clay Travis week days at six am Eastern, three am Pacific. When you self assess and I know you just signed a new contract to stay at Penn State

for many more years, congratulations on that. How close do you think you are You've already won a Big ten championship. How close do you think the program is to taking the proverbial next step making a playoff, being able to contend for a national championship. Well, we're close, you know. Obviously we've been. We've been very close. I mean you look at us. We've played in three We've played in three New Year's six Bowl games in the last four years.

You know, we've been ranked as high as number two in the country. Um, you know, so we're close. You know the our conference, um, you know, the Big Tennis a little bit like the SEC West. You got Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn's Date all in the same side of the conference. Um. So it's it's challenging and it and it is a battle, There's no doubt about it. So, um, you know, it's hard to get into the top twenty five. It's hard to go from the top twenty five into

the top fifteen. And I would make the argument it's even more challenging to get into that top four because the top four to five programs in the country. That drop off to the to the top ten is significant, probably much more significant than anywhere else. So, uh, you know those things are really really important that you keep battling and scratching and clawing for all those little all those little margins of error that you're trying to close

the gap. I only have a couple more questions for you when you sit back and think about your career so far. What loss, what, what when are you most proud of? And what loss sticks with you the most. So I'm not a favorite guy, and that's what anything that's with games, that's with food, debts with music. So it's hard for me to say, like, who's my favorite player. It's hard for me to say what's my favorite win?

Um or toughest loss? That that's hard to say. Um. The one thing I would probably say, and not necessarily because of the game, but but something else. But we beat Ohio State at our place a few years back. Um, you know, blocked the field goal, ran back for touchdown, you know, played really well. Um. And one that it was a white out. If you haven't, if you've never been to a Penn State white out game, you need

to do that. It's it's tremendous. But what made it special for me is the young man who blocked the field goal and the other guy who picked up the ball up and ran in for touchdown. His there, his dad took those two gloves, had him autograph it, had a picture of it, and put all that in a frame for me and gave it to me. So that's one of my prize prize possessions because it's so personal.

Last question for you, how do you balance being a good dad, being a good husband, and also being incredibly successful Because there's a lot of people out there listening, regardless of what they do for a living, they struggle with that. What have you found that works for you? Again, I think it goes back to that micro managing deal where I think you gotta be honest and you've got to be transparent. So for me to sit here and tell you right now that I have balanced in my life,

I do not. UM. I struggle every single day. I have I have UM football coach guilt. I have guilt about it about the time that I spend with my wife, the time that I spend with my daughters. UM. For me to sit here and say I have balanced, I don't, you know. So I struggle with that every single day, trying to be the best dad I possibly can be, be the best husband I possibly could be, be the

best football coach I possibly can be. UM. And the reality there's times where I'm able to pour everything into the dad role or the husband role and the coach role, but it's not balanced. UM, you know. And I just try to do the best I possibly can every single day. But I think being upfront and honest about that helps. I think the other thing that helps is being the head coach. I've created an environment here where my wife and kids as well as as well as the other

coaches and their kids. UM, they come in that office all the time. So you know, the other day, my daughter Sola was in here in the office with me for nine hours. They had a day off. She spent the entire day with me. Um. She's running around the office kind of seeing all her uncles, and down in this in the nutrition bar, making smoothies for the players

and things like that. You know, so that that's how we do it, and it you know, probably isn't um you know, probably isn't ideal, but it's how we maximize it the best we possibly can. Outstanding stuff. I know you're a busy man. Appreciate the time. It's James Franklin, Pin State football coach. This has been wins and losses with Clay Travis. Thanks my man, Thank you very much. How a going buddy. Fox Sports Radio has the best

sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live.