This episode is brought to you by the P Group. Welcome back to wedding through culture. I'm Tim Flanagan. And I'm a Amanda Kramer. When culture is not a priority, people aren't a priority. Having an intentional focus helps you as a leader remain impactful full and relevant as you move your business forward. Welcome to winning through culture. Today, we are excited to bring back a
winning through culture greatest kits. When we do this, we are looking for an episode out of our library that we have heard from you are listeners that has been the most impactful and meaningful as it relates to helping you create an intentional culture in your listeners organization and or has helped you grow as a leader. So without further ado, we're gonna turn it right back to too.
I'm a amanda Kramer, and I'm really excited for the conversation that Tim, and I are going to have today is a topic that has been on my mind for a while, and it's something that we shared in are what you can expect through them winning through culture episode that you just listened to a couple weeks go hopefully. And this is a conversation around finding or building purpose in your work. There is this element of having distinction between Pe passion and
purpose. And today, Tim and I are gonna dig a little bit deeper into what that looks like if you're an entrepreneur, how that has come to fruition and his life is a leader and just all the things related to purpose and passion. So, Tim? Thank you very much, amanda. It's good to be here with you today. And, yes, we've talked about this topic. For a while. I am interested in
unpacking it a bit more with you. And I believe the starting point of discussion around purpose and passion really begins if our listeners are familiar with the Mas hierarchy of needs. It begins with a understanding of how people
approach what they need. And I think from my experience in business and life, you see a continuum of people professionally whether their business owner or quite frankly in their professional career, striving for success, which is ultimately defined differently by different people, but usually, falls into into a couple categories we'll come back to.
And that's striving for success for... Those that are fortunate enough leads to success and then it leads to an entirely new conversation, which is okay. What else is there? Right. What is my passion? And purpose really more so my purpose because your passion is probably what fuel you through the success phase, and got you to that point where you're now asking yourself. Okay. There's gotta be more than this.
What's my purpose. And it's the transition that's been written about by a couple of wise people relative to the success to significance transition. Yeah. I think a good place to start this dialogue is to define the difference between when it is something that you're passionate about or whether it is your purpose. So passion typically is that emotional aspect is something that's slightly more inward focused. It gets you motivated.
It kind of is okay, Cool. I'm getting up every day, and I'm doing this, whereas you have your purpose, which is You're not just born with what your purpose is, Sometimes you have to build it along the way whereas passion you typically are. As far as purpose is concerned that sure why it's your ability and your contributions to the community that you serve. It's that greater component. What are you giving back at the end of the day?
And I think the utopia of it all is when your passion and your purpose aligned. But more even specifically, who take into account kind of your superpower. So when you have your talents, your passion, and your purpose. When all 3 of those things are... In alignment. I think that's really where you get to that success and that place of, okay. I've reached the top of the mountain and now what?
So, Tim, maybe if you give a little bit of context of when you started out on your journey as a leader, did you start with your passion or your purpose? I would say that I started with something even more basic than that. Alright. So I think that whether you're professional or business owner and speak to being a business owner is you've got to make enough money to survive.
Feed your family, have your business... Be successful, operate, generate enough revenue to reinvest in your business, Hire people do all the things that a business needs to do to be successful, and maybe not just have to eat Ramen. Well, that's a college thing or perhaps after college depending on the success of your business. So that I know is got to be sat first. Now it's your passion back to your... Definition there, amanda, your passion may cause you
to choose your profession. If you're fortunate and or the business, you start, it's something you are excited about. It's something you enjoy. It's something you have positive energy about, and it's something that pushes you through. The challenges that inevitably come along because they will come. That's a guarantee. So I know for me, at least my first objective. I had a passion to help people.
I had passion for how the financial services industry could impact people's lives, and I had a very strong need to find a way to build a business, and have an income that could sustain that business and sustain my family. So the passion is what got me going. Right. And kept me going quite frankly when things did not go according to plan.
But until I was able to meet that first need as a business owner, you know, truthfully, the passion is what you got to push you through the purpose piece for most people I think comes later. Mh. Biggest it's built as you're working through those successes and those challenges that you face? Yes. So what are some questions that you... Asked yourself along the way as
your purpose was coming to fruition. As you move from that initial need, to really leaning into those passions that you have to get you through, maybe those challenging times. What are some of the questions that helps you form where your purpose ultimately landed. Well, the questions ultimately for purpose are what am I uniquely gifted to do? Mh. You're super powers. Yes. Superpower. And I know for me at least, it was very difficult for me to see that. I had to have other people help
me. Tease that out. I remember doing an exercise right around the time I was 30, I went to a few people that I trusted and respected it and said, what do you see me be good at. And, by the way I've done that since then as recently as last year, because it's definitely something that changes over time as you acquire skills and experiences. My first question is, what am I good at? What did God kind of gift me to do in this lifetime? The second question then becomes... So is it
something that I actually enjoy. Right? Because you may be good at something that doesn't really satisfy you? Yeah. And I don't know that that's often the case, but I can think of some instances where I've seen that. So the second question then is, you know, what do I really enjoy? And then the third question is, again, back to the business aspect of this, is is that something that the world sees value. Mh. Can I
create value in that? Can I transmit that value to other people and in turn, be for that? Compensated for that, and again, build a business around. So said another way, that last question that you were discussing is really... The world is a better place because I'm in it and the ability that I had to produce x. Whatever that might look like. So If you talk about the alignment of your talents. So the superpower question, the alignment of d you have satisfaction, do you have the...
Passion at the end of the day to be able to come to the table every single time and say, you know, I am putting or pouring rather, a thousand percent of myself into this? And then is the community that that I'm in or the world as a whole? Is it better because I'm able to have this value that I bring to the table? Yeah. I fundamentally believe we all have unique gifts. Who are all bringing something unique to the world. Many people.
Unfortunately, I believe, also don't ever figure out what that is to because they're not intentional about it. This is definitely a very intentional act. It's 1 thing to have an inkling as to what excites you and what you're interested in and it's a whole another thing though.
To organize your life around it and to make it come to fruition and to bring it forth and ultimately bear fruit So there's definitely a pathway here that again, my fundamental belief is at some point in the journey of life The vast majority of people are gonna ask themselves, why am I here? What is this about? And what is my purpose? And some people get great clarity of that. I know early in their life. Some people never get that. Some people never ask the question. I Say, it might go back to
the questions. Like, are you constantly? Because the success equation says make more money. Get more awards, do more things. The do more things. Yeah. All do more things. Get more things, and that's the success, the equation of our society today is, you know, be famous. How many followers do you have? All that stuff, says, that's what success is. Yet, I know, from my own experience and talking to a lot of other business owners and entrepreneurs that at some point, that's not enough.
Well, and if a entrepreneur of just listening if they wanted to reach out or somebody that potentially... You know, you have a relationship with no matter where you are in that relationship cycle. If they were to come to you and say, as I'm building this business or as I'm starting out whatever phase of life they're in? And they said, do I start with something I'm just good at or do I start with something I'm passionate about. What would your advice be for that individual? Great question, man.
That's not a heavy question at all. But I think it gets back to ultimately, the ideal situation is both. Right. Yeah. You're doing something you enjoy. You're doing something that you feel some inkling that you were created to do. And it's something that you can do successfully from a standpoint of building a business around or having a career around. And again, how many people in life pursue other people's
vision of their life? They go and get a degree in any profession because someone else told them that's what they should do. Right. Not because it's something that necessarily they're passionate about not because it's something they necessarily feel they're good at. And again, our society says, well, you know, if you're a doctor or lawyer or certain profession, you can make a lot of money, which is true. Yet, make a lot of money is typically not the purpose that people lean into or
land Right. When they eventually get there. Yeah. That may be a byproduct of this intersection of passion and purpose and ultimately finding your way and your work and your business life, but that's not I don't think that's the end all be all. Well, it's interesting that you comment about, like, getting a degree in a particular subject or...
Area in which you just kind of somebody landed on Monday and said you should be x. I think that at least in my daily life don't really come across a lot of people who declared a major and graduated with that major. And then today either have not... I shifted or outside of, you know, even a doctor, maybe their specialty is different than they originally thought it was going to be there's that room for adaptability because you're working on building your purpose as
you go. So I think that's important to note that it's not Okay, Day 1, you decided, and then that's the only thing. That's... You do have to be laser focused if you wanna build it, but it's... You can have some room for... Flexibility. I guess, this is the best word to use. Well, I think that's the right word to use because again, it's an iterative process. Right. I believe few people are blessed enough to, you know, in their twenties figure out.
This is why I was created. This is exactly why I'm here, and this is exactly what I'm gonna do about that. Mh. I think most people spend a lifetime pursuing that. And again, in a business setting, if you're creating value, For whomever your clients are, that can still be something you're passionate about, and you clearly can find your purpose in that. Now in my mind. Well, and as a leader, the intersection as we said that utopia of having
your purpose and your passion and your... Special talents or your powers as I like to call them, all come together is obtain, but we talk a lot about on this podcast around as a leader, how that gets put into the evolving culture of your organization, whether it's you and 1 other person, whether it's 50 people, a hundred people, whatever it might look like and we go back to this book quite often, but I have it here, and it's the culture solution by Matthew Kelly.
And on 1 of the pages, He articulate a dynamic culture cannot make employees happy, but it can make fulfillment and happiness at work a lot more obtain. And I think about that in the context of a leader and the discussion that we're having today around purpose and passion, if the leader is working towards that. The ability for them to them pour their purpose and their passion into the organization, then results and a culture, that others can find their way, find and
build their purpose within. So I think having the discussion as a leader as a business owner entrepreneur or whatever word you wanna utilize there? Is there a way in which entrepreneurs leaders can create space or that you have seen that they can create space to help others as they're going on that same journey of building their purpose. Is there anything that comes to mind? Yes. In fact there is. I think Amanda that the imperative of a leader to create a winning culture.
That unlocks people's passions and purpose is to be intentional in the formation of that culture And what I mean by that is to acknowledge that the purpose of the business and to discuss the purpose of the businesses isn't and just to make the bottom line. Right. Now, the business needs to make a bottom line in order to sustain itself and offer all these wonderful opportunities I'm about to speak about, So that's important back to my
earlier comments. If the economic security is not there, the rest of this is gonna go out the window because of, again, the hierarchy of human needs. But with the security of a well established business, the intentional, I believe an entrepreneur has to have is recognizing that everybody in that organization has unique gifts everybody has passions and interests, and everybody ultimately is here for a purpose.
Mh. And as the leader are you formulating a culture that speaks to helping people identify, what are you good at? What do you enjoy? Whether it's in the actual job you've been hired to or on a project team or some other way, how can we help you explore that further, unpack that, kind of foster that. So that's number 1. Number 2 then is really an open dialogue that everybody's here for a purpose. Again, that's not
necessarily certainly in a large corporate environment. You're not gonna see that conversation.
Because it's about quarterly earnings and it's about all this, but as an entrepreneur of a small business, you have an amazing opportunity to create a culture that people wanna come be a part of because you're giving them an opportunity to pursue something they're passionate about Obviously, it needs to be in alignment with what the business needs and a good leader can make that happen, let's say 80 percent of the time.
And that same process in my mind allows them then to begin to find their purpose and really get an alignment with that. And sometimes that alignment may mean they're not
with that organization anymore. Other times it may mean that they you know, are truly suited and uniquely gifted for a particular need the business has, and it gives them a chance to grow into an entirely new role, or grow up in a role, but that's to me the imperative if you're gonna create a winning culture around people pursuing their passion and finding their purpose in life. That's 1 of the key things you're gonna have to address. There's another
1 will come to in a moment. But those 2 things I think are really critical. And in doing that, again, I know that a business can create a culture. The people wanna be a part of. Well, in in a future episodes of flash forwarding here just a little bit. You do
have a... Really interesting dialogue with a individual Debbie mill house and talking about when that opportunity arises for someone to seek employment in some capacity, how the purpose and passion, how that all goes into the talent management and talent strategy component of being a an entrepreneur and a a small business owner, which I think is really cool. So I know these tendencies and discussion points that we're having today are also going to be part of that dialogue too.
So I do hope that our listeners will tune in. But you mentioned the concept of having that space in a small business where an individual can work to figure out and or build their purpose and really lean into the passion and the things that they're good at. Do you find that as a leader having that annual performance conversation that you build space in there to have dialogue around the path or the purpose of the individual? Or do you think that
that's a separate? I mean, I think it's an ongoing dialogue I do, and I think it's... Passion in that ongoing dialogue, there's an intentional to it, and it's easy to get busy and lose sight of that or just have it fall off the radar. So I do believe it's imperative that both parties make a commitment to not let that happen. And so that the employee doesn't just assume the leader gonna do it, and the a leader doesn't just assume, the employee bring it up if it's important to him, let's just
recognize it's important. Yeah. But I think it's an ongoing conversation. I think to there are moments in time that are inflection points where you're going to then decide what progress have we made? What have we learned there over some period of time, and, yeah, years is a good period of time to give something enough donation if you will to unfold. Whether that's a calendar year or 12 month
span. I do believe that that is an appropriate time frame, but I do also very strongly believe that it can't be something you put in a box and say, we'll
talk about this 12 months from yeah. And honestly, you say no. Sparked a thought around how you and I. And again, a lot of the dialogue that we have here comes from our daily experience in our organization, but this is applicable to any industry, any place doesn't matter if you're running on a particular operating system or not, we use the concept of having quarterly conversations. And so maybe you can express a little bit around how those come to fruition. And for me, that gives me a lot of...
Grace and the dialogue to say, here is what I'm passionate about. Here are the things I wanna focus on. Here is how I need you as a leader to show up for me? Can you maybe me talk a little? I can talk about it. I can talk about it with the understanding that I need a little grace because I am been really good to last too. First of doing my, but they are on the calendar this year. Yeah. I mean, the idea in Os of a quarterly is really a 90 minute block. To get out of the office get away
from the day to day. It's not a performance review. It's really a 2 way conversation about how am I doing? And how are you doing and how are we doing together in sense. And what's upcoming relative to how you wanna grow professionally, and I also like to look at where people want to personally. That's a decision that everyone makes unique to themselves as to whether they wanna
share that or not. And then, you know, the question becomes as a leader, what can I do to support the your efforts in that regard? And it is a rich conversation. It's I've had some pretty significant breakthroughs in those conversations, with the people that I work with, both learnings for myself and quite frankly understanding for them, and it gives you a chance to course correct, back to the fact that it's an iterative process. If I put it a box, and I revisit it once a year.
That's too far of a time frame to course correct. You know. You could be way off course. And so the quarterly really does help calibrate more nuanced course corrections to get us back on track. Well, and for me, you know, being participant in quarterly with you, and then also having individuals that I have quarterly least with. It's 1 of the best opportunities to take a break as you said from the business and really just talk about where
the person's passions lie. And have that dialogue on where they wanna go and as a leader how you can help them do that. And I as I shared, I think it's applicable no matter the industry no matter your business size you can take 90 minutes a quarter for those that you directly support to have that conversation, and it does give you that pivot point. Of making sure that where their passions and their talents that they're aligning to their purpose and then ultimately,
hopefully, Right? To get that point of Utopia where all 3 things come together. I do wanna touch on that. Alright. You know, we talked about... This podcast not sounding like everything's rainbow bone roses. Yeah. It's not. And I wanna talk about the reality of all these wonderful things, which is it's hard. It's really hard. And I'm actually suspect that some entrepreneurs or business owners don't wanna go down this path because it is hard, and it's like, whoa, that's messy.
I don't know that I wanna know all that information that a person. I don't know that I want the responsibility then to have to, you know, just come here and do your job, basically, is the mindset of so many businesses, and that's your stuff to work out on your own time, not here. Now, as a leader, I've chosen a different path, Right. We've chosen a different path as an organization. But I I think it's really important to call out the fact that it's hard. Mh.
And it's hard on 2 fronts. It's hard as the leader because in my experience, you're getting people perhaps, to think about things they would not have thought about on their own and kind of opening a bit of a pandora box. Yeah. That idea idea Yeah. And it's like generic needs. Wait a minute. Yeah. And so you do open yourself up in essence to... Some conversations that may not be in alignment with what you as the leader and the entrepreneur we're hoping for.
But the other piece that's hard and this is equally as challenging is, I think it's hard on the person that is exploring this and the ultimate challenge in pursuing your passion, and your purpose and aligning that in a way that creates value that you get compensated well for is that the work itself is hard. Mh. And I see too many people get a picture and a glimpse of what that looks like and get very excited about it. And then when it's time to do the work for lack of better word peace out.
And and they're like, hey, you know, it's the old adage of I wanna be healthy and fit, you know, back to your. We're not doing New Year's. Resolutions appreciation. That's right. But all the things that fall on that list are with the best of intentions just as this whole experience of identifying all of this is the best of intentions, but that for the person that's in the business, you know, not the
leader. It's hard for the leader. But for the employee that has decided this is something they want to engage in and I think they really can run up against. Wow, this is hard, which then brings you back to where you started, which is, Is this really what you're passionate about? Right. And is this really where you feel called? That's the piece that
I see as well. And so as a entrepreneur or business owner just and again, the full disclosure category, this isn't in Rainbows and Roses is By adopting this type of approach in your culture, you are opening yourselves up in my opinion to some challenges that most businesses might not face. And at the same time though, for those employees that do the work and push through the hard easy, you as an entrepreneur will see some amazing transformations and people. And to me, that is worth it. That
is worth all the hard work. That's worth some of the heartache. That's worth some of the challenges. That come and the disruptions that may come to the business to see people in essence transformed. And again, I can speak to my own daughter who went through this process and left our organization after 8 years. And she is pursuing her passion. She's pursuing quite frankly something that I think she was built to do at a very young age, which is... I've told her repeatedly, you're so fortunate
to be in alignment with that. And she still has challenges every day. And so that doesn't mean all of this being discovered will eliminate challenges in your life, it will just illuminate the challenges that need to be overcome and trust that it'll give you the energy, if and the fort to move through those challenges. Nah. Well, a lot to unpack in the dialogue around where... Your passion. About this. You will you are, which is wonderful.
I see it every day because I get the good fortune of working with you and it is. It's a hard decision as a leader to jump into really the deep end with people. And let them explore and have conversations. That they might be having internally with themselves, they might be having it with someone outside of the organization, but encouraging that dialogue it kind is like a unicorn in business for those that I've encountered. And so it's
an opportunity to lean into it. It might not be the right decision for you, but it is something to consider how as a individual as a leader as a business owner, you want to support that dialogue for those that are in your community and your pod. And so we hope that you found the information that we shared with you insightful. Hopefully, there's a negative or 2 that you can take away as you're working to build
your winning culture. And ultimately, we hope that your passion and your purpose and your talents are aligned, and we look forward to having more conversation around how these things come to fruition over the course of several episodes to come, and 1 of the things I think is important just to know, again, Tim's at it, but I think needs to be reiterated. It is hard. It's a hard decision to make, and you might come across some points that you weren't quite ready for yet, But I
will. That You will. You will. Okay. Let's just... You won't... You will. That might You will. You will. I promise. And allowing those individuals to step into that to jump in the deepen with you. As Tim said, those experiences are very fruitful, and you might be ready for that in a couple years, she you might be ready for it now. Yeah. Well, thank you, Amanda. Again, I do appreciate you leaning into pursuing your passion and purpose here as we do this
journey in business. In life together. So I thank you for that, and I would just say before I end this podcast. My last comment on this is I appreciate the inspiration you provide my life and for business owners that choose this path, you will be inspired. Again, you will suffer heartache, but you will be inspired in the inspiration will lift you up in ways that you can't imagine and my encouragement is be around people that inspire you you inspire me. So thinking
that? That's very good. And that's a wrap for this episode of winning through culture. Thanks for being with us today. Be well. That Thanks for joining us for another episode of winning through culture. Until next time, stay intentional, be impactful. Because you're culture matters.