¶ Intro / Opening
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel . We are here to help you navigate the world of wine . I'm Mel Gilchrist , joined by Master of Wine Meg Brotman . Meg , what are we doing today ?
We're
¶ Welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel
looking at Barbera because you keep telling me that it's like the cool kids drink and I'm just not convinced . I've had Barbera before you have . I swear have I . Yeah . I just think that I've had it before you have . I swear have I , yeah .
I just think that no Italian wines are up and coming . Maybe I've heard that . No , I'm sure it was Barbera .
I'm sure it was Barbera . I've never , hey . I've just gone out and bought all these Barbera wines . So bloody , bloody , bloody , it is an all-rounder .
It's wine that can go . It covers many things okay .
All right , we will get into it first . What have you been drinking ? So I had and I don't know the name of it , but it was a winery in austria in the vacao sauvignon blanc okay ,
¶ Recent wine discoveries in Austria
you looked at me like well , most people you're allowed to drink with austria . And I was there with my it . It was the Master of Wine get-together at Singapore Van Expo .
Funny , because it was like a handful of us , yeah , and there was a woman there , annette , and she organised it , annette Scarfe , and it was at the Austrian Wine Stand because she works for them . And I was thinking , oh okay , but Austrian wine stand because she works for them .
And I was thinking , oh okay , but they poured this Sauvignon Blanc and I did not get a photo of the bottle , but it was absolutely amazing . And my Kiwi husband went , oh my God , that is so good . And he went back the next day and actually asked it because at the end of the fair . Everyone's pouring out goblets .
You know of wine , he said can I please have a glass of that ?
It was so delicious I love that you're talking it up so much but you don't actually know the name , so none of us can go no I will .
I will find . There's no way we're going to be able to find it had a green label with some gold writing on it .
Um , I will go and find green label with gold writing green green label remember when oh my god , remember in our first season we had um something we didn't know or something , and all our listeners ran out and like tracked it down . Oh my god , what was it ?
do you remember that time ago ? But like we .
They were like little minions and they came back and they were like , they were like we've , we've , we've tracked it down for you . This is the person . It was a person that found the person .
Yeah , yeah , yeah the the master of wine . That , that's it , nancy .
Something . They found it Anyway . So the fact that you've just said that I bet someone's going to come back and find it for us , green oval label Riesling bottle , maybe Bordeaux bottle ?
Green oval label with some gold writing on it , but anyway , that was .
Keep checking our Instagram . I'll give you my if we , if we find it um , hang on though austria . I was just about to make a point that you know how in wesset they only talk about yarra valley in terms of um , chardonnay , pinot noir .
When you say you wouldn't expect sauvignon blanc to come from austria , I wouldn't have thought that , because for me I'm like oh , I know that you know , grununewaldlinger and stuff might be a hero grape , but I kind of assumed there'd be other stuff that would work , and surely Sauvignon Blanc would work in the same climate as Grunewald .
So is that how it is there ? Yeah , no , you're right , it's a cool continental climate , so there's no reason why Sauvignon shouldn't grow there .
But I was just so . They're not bound to varieties like Francis , no , okay .
But honestly , austrians , forget the Gruner . Hang your hat on this Sauvignon , it is so good .
No one says forget the Gruner in front of me . Okay , sorry , oh Gruner .
Do you ?
like Gruner , Austin Love it . It's terrific . There we go . If you were just joining us and if you haven't listened to one of the episodes where we introduced Austin , which is likely because you might have dropped off .
when the audio was crap . Even I stopped listening . Yeah , it was very annoying . I don't care what I said , no one can hear me . Anyway , I'm sorry everyone .
We've sorted . Austin is just some legend who came along who makes videos . That's like what he does and he likes the podcast and he was like guys , I think that I should do some videos for your social . What's the name of your company ?
Austin .
That's McCleary Productions .
McCleary , like Harry McCleary .
McCleary Productions . Mccleary Productions there you go . So if you follow us on social media and you're like , how come all of a sudden their videos are fantastic , when they used to just look like trash ? That's why .
And he's managed to make Mel's shelves look tidy , like I saw him sort of running around with bottles .
He does . He's got this attention to detail which we don't see Okay , we detail which we don't see . Okay , we're gonna do this before billy wakes up .
We've , we've also told him , though it's nice to have , like , almost like , a voice of the people here , so that if we make some , if we say something , it doesn't make sense I've invited him to kind of speak up .
He's like a little pretty fast sitting off the side or like a referee maybe , if we argue I represent the layman yeah , you represent the common man from the common man from thomas moore .
Yeah , okay , meg , what have you been drinking ? I've just told you what I've been drinking , haven't I ? The fun fact is , did you know that the average age of an oak tree when it's cut down to make an oak barrel is between 80 and 120 years of age , and they can go up to 200 years of age , and you only get two barrels from one oak tree .
And that's not because oak trees aren't big , it's because they're all apportioned to different , like flooring or I didn't know that .
Yeah , yeah , that's fascinating .
So it's old oak , it's grown slowly .
Poviejo , they used to talk about the winemaker . She would go to France and choose the trees .
Yes , you're allowed to do that . Is that a legit thing , can you ?
actually go look at a tree a bit ? No , you can . You can mark them . No , but I mean , like does it ? Is it actually going to tell you anything about how the wine's going to turn out from the outside ?
no , absolutely not . But when you go into these oak forests in nevere or whatever they're actually there's , it's like a amazing code , like the Zodiac code of crosses and circles and dots and different coloured spray paints , which are obviously people doing that , and it wouldn't all just be for barrels , it would be for furniture , I don't know , right , okay .
Barbera . We are getting into Barbera . Okay , let's just frame this Sangiovese huge , pretty big , like , I think , the um common man speak up . If you were to name a Italian variety , what would it be ?
Chianti , yeah , sangiovese , exactly one in the same and Austin just did tell me about half an hour ago that he loves Sangiovese . So clearly it's on his brain .
No one can afford . Barolo . Nebbiolo is kind of up and coming as well , but Barbera is one of those things that if you are at an Italian restaurant , it is likely to be in your price range , and I think it is becoming bigger and bigger here , so it is worth exploring . Meg , tell us about Barbera .
So Barbera from Piemonte . So you may have heard of Barbera d'Asti , so Asti's Piemonte , so it's from around the range .
Nasti Asti .
Nasti , asti , I love Asti . Anyway , Piemonte , as the name suggests , if you speak Italian , it's the foot of the mountain , so it's the foot of the Alps .
I didn't know that that was the translation . I didn't know that the the was a translation . I didn't know that I don't speak italian .
P-i-e is foot monte yeah good job , and we call it piedmont , which is the french version of p-a foot mont . Oh , there you go , so it's literally at the bottom of mont blanc . Yeah , okay , um , and it's so . It's a cool continental climate . They're obviously most famous for Nebbiolo .
In terms of white great varieties , you've got some Arnais and Cortese , you've got Barbera sort of sits there .
So we're at the top of the boot in terms of Italy . We're on our way to France . We're at the top of the boot , yeah yeah , we're at the top of the boot in terms of Italy . We're on our way to France . We're at the top of the boot , yeah yeah .
We're at the top of the thigh , we're at the hip . Baby , we're at the hip . We're about to kick France out . It's literally on the border with France . Yeah , it's a grape variety that , for me , is very fruit driven , 99.9% un-oaked driven , 99.9% unoaked .
If the Italians put it in oak , it's that old oak bottes that you know have no impact , high in acidity and has black fruit . For me so it's blackberry blackcurrant .
But there's always and this is why I struggle to get around it for me there's always a herbal undertone to the wines , but they are the perfect entree wine to and your charcuterie and saucisson and salami and things , because that acidity just is crying out for fat , yeah , and there's plenty of fruit to support it .
So I thought we'd get some Aussie numbers , yeah , and then we had a look . I got a couple of OG ones . It's funny to compare .
Can I give you my impression , before we go in , of how I currently think of Barbera ? I think the flavor is too harsh , considering it's not oaked , and I don't think it has the body to back how much flavour it gives me . I always get this smack of like blackberry and I just I always think to myself this wine needs more body .
It's got so much flavour like .
I think this is our problem . We associate so much of our red wine drinking with oak . So if you look at a valpolicella , you're not expecting that , are you ?
but it's more red fruit , I think . When I it's , maybe it comes down to fruit .
If it's , I think it's the acid I think it's the acid that's saying to you I need a little bit of softening , okay , um , and that's that's where I kind of fall over with barbara that , um , I can drink it in very , very , very specific situations .
And after Mel told us that it was the trendy thing , pete and I went out and bought a whole heap at Dan's and we're drinking them and we're both like it's fine , but we're just not convinced . And I think when we were in Piemonte we actually drank a lot of it .
When we were in Piemonte , we actually drank a lot of it , but we were actually putting it in the fridge and chilling it down and having it with sort of pre-dinners .
People would be drinking it a lot because it isn't it almost guaranteed it's going to be second cheapest . If you're at an Italian restaurant , it'll be second cheapest . Oh yeah , yeah , valpolicella will be the cheapest , and then your Barbera will be next , and so I bet so many people are drinking Barbera .
Which look . It's fine , it's if that's what you like , but I think it needs to have nibbles . So the first one we've got is the 2023 Lingo Bar . Where's this from Adelaide Hills ? I like the label and Barb . Where's this from Adelaide Hills ?
¶ Comparing Australian Barberas
I like the label and I like the bottle .
It's cool , so the bottle's almost like a Juranseau bottle . No , I was going to know what that means , man , I was going to say it's got some tartar at Christmas , but it's obviously your candle on the back . So it's Barbera Lingo , Barbs lingo . Say it with confidence . It's pinnacle , one pinnacle wine .
So this would have been the cheapest wine , so this is sort of your pinnacle means endeavor drinks . So they either make the wine or they buy it and bottle it themselves now I love the nose .
I haven't tasted it yet , but it is really love the nose . I haven't tasted it yet , but it is really inviting the nose . Hmm , it's fruity , but there's something kind of spicy or herbal and different in there .
It's that herbal note that I can't get around with , oh you can't get around it .
Oh really , I like it All . Right , austin , pour some . Can you smell some of these bar barbs for us ? And I'm genuinely interesting to know if you like the herbal note have you had much experience with barbera ? Me ? Yep , I haven't . I've had a lot of experience with italian wines , as I am half italian , at least it's very . It reminds me of Italy , though .
Yeah , true . So maybe as an Italian Do you know that French term , garigue . So it's a sort of oregano , lavender and , I think , rosemary that grow on the sides of the road in Provence and you know , it's like that woody herb . Running your hand over a woody herb , I just find it . It's the one one , my one stopping point .
With Barbera I can have a glass , happily , with some , you know , salami or charcuterie , or salumi as the Italians call it , but I'm not a big fan of it as a wine , just by itself .
Austin , how's the nose in that for you Good , heavy nice .
Heavy nice .
It's the only way to ?
I don't really know , but the Italians never drink wine really without food . That's the thing .
Yes .
The next one I've got is Billy Button , so your favourite it's different . I love Billy Button . This is from Alpine .
Valleys 2022 . It's us pronounced on the nose it button um . This is from alpine valleys 2022 .
It's less pronounced on the nose , it's less floral , it's less perfumed . Barbara , called the affable . Well , this is a little bit meatier yeah that I could drink by itself . It's softer . It's softer on the palate , but it's , I don't know the Barbs was , and more Barbera yeah , yes , yes , true , that was more OG than this is .
This is , for me , the Billy Button . This is a year older , so maybe it's started to soften out a little bit , and I do think that Barbera is a wine that you need to drink young . It's not something that needs to be aged yeah . But again no oak , a little bit of licorice .
This one , this Billy Button one . I could sit on it for longer , but the first one , the barbs , excited me . The nose was like thrilling .
Okay , I'm not quite sure which one . I'm assuming that that's next . Were they both ?
screw cap .
Yep .
Two Italian wine screw cap . That's interesting .
Yeah , because it's telling you that they're cheap . What you use , that 21 and it's 21 , one of these is expensive . Did I leave the anyway ?
I'm sure we'll figure it out if we , I reckon it's that one because it's in a bordeaux bottle let's just say some both .
That's fun we'll figure out which one's . We've got a faber de alba . So if you know pimonte at all , alba's one of the cities and if you get a chance to visit , you must go . It's a walled-in city .
It's where they have lots of truffles and they have a particular spaghetti which I think is bloody awful Tallarini's , but it's just basic , but it's apparently supposed to be drunk with Barbera d'Alba . Google it . This is a 2021 , so it's four years old . The colour
¶ Italian Barberas and final thoughts
is incredibly vibrant and purple , and this is the thing about Barbera because the acid is so high , the pH on this . I've never made Barbera , so I don't know , but I'm assuming , based on that colour , the pH must be really , really low .
Sorry , I'm just giving some to Austin , so in real time tasting , here is most Barbera gonna present as purple , purple yeah , that's why that Billy Button one was for me quite surprising , because it's always .
There's two great varieties that I think look almost identical Zweigelt , which of course no one's ever drunk , and three Blaufrankisch Zweigelt and Barbera always have that . Oh my God , they've just literally made it sort of vibe .
So I always say this in Wesset , especially when you're like framing it at the start of a class , sorry , at the start of like a full course .
People always , because they have like five different options of colours in front of them , they want to use all of them and they're so tempted to say something is a different colour , but in reality , most red ones are ruby . Oh , darn it , that's it . Yeah , you got two . You're not finding purple very often , and so it's kind of cool that .
Um , maybe we use this as a shout out to if you do want to find an example of purple , start buying barbara so when you for wsat students , when you're looking at the purple , don't look at the edge of the glass , look at the middle . It has a distinct sort of purple , grapey color to it , um , and there's almost a blue hint in the wine .
This is what I think Barbera should be . Is the alcohol content on these really high Shouldn't be , should it ? I'd say around 13 and a half oh no , that's 14 and a half .
Picked it . Can I please see the front ? And billy button is 14 okay , so this one I don't know about lingo I've found the price it's 38 . This italian one it doesn't have . There's only two reviews on Dan Murphy's and they are not great , disappointing bit . Young , not as mellow as I was expecting . The other person said walk past it next time .
It'd be reasonable at 12 to 15 dollars as an Australian wine , but it's an overpriced import and that's the thing with Barbera .
it's's not a mellow wine , no , it's not it's never ever ever a mellow wine . It's not friendly . It's a zingy , zappy kind of wine to be consumed in its youth , yeah . So what do we think of the Barbera d'Alba 2021 ? Quite , savoury , a bit muddy . I would you know how Stokin said I would kind of prefer that with a plate of pasta .
Yeah , you didn't like it , austin . No , this one wasn't quite for me .
I'm not too sure . Yeah , no , you're right , Meg . I think you're exactly right that the acid is too high and I expect more body or tannin to be able to back it up , and without it it's got really strong flavor on the palate and it's got a lot of acid and I just want something else to complete that structure so now I have , can you check this ?
it's a barbera de alba masolino 2021 , and I think this is the really pricey one . But again , look at the color , it's four years old .
Yes , this is 53 , yeah so my aim was to compare that rivetto barbera de alba from zio nando , 2021 , with at 35 , and it look literally that is probably a 10 euro bottle of wine , but you're paying all the taxes against a serious winemaker's wine of Barbera d'Alba from Messalina Messalina is a very good producer in Piemonte from 2021 . Quite elegant label .
I just love it . It's just white , no , but the color is amazing . The smell is stunning .
Yeah , it's gorgeous , I agree . Austin said the smell is great , but so is the palate , the thing about it it has that sweet spot to it , so sweet spot's when the fruit and alcohol balance are perfect .
So when you first take it into your tongue it kind of feels like a little tender , velvet touch across your tongue . I have to say 53 bucks for Barbera , I'm not going there , yeah . But if this was in a restaurant and it was the second highest priced red wine and I was having some lovely pasta , nizhana or something , I would be very happy with this .
It is pretty yummy . It's not what I'm expecting from . Happy with this . It is pretty yummy . It's not what I'm expecting from Barbera . It has Barbera black fruits , that brambliness that you see in the cheaper versions in that lingo , and the cheaper Barbera d'Alba from Zio Nando is gone .
Yep .
So it's definitely riper in fruit character , I think it's pretty young .
This is interesting . The dead miffy's description says barbara can be a bit of a chameleon , so let's set the record straight immediately . This wine falls into pure fruited , punchy , lighter bodied good times category , which isn't wrong , but no when you describe that and then put it next to the price tag of $50, .
I don't want to spend $50 on good times Like I want to spend $50 on good wine , like a wine that I'm , I can dissect and be interested in , and you know .
So that is the , I guess , the best version . Obviously , this is from a serious producer in Barbera , in Alba of Barbera , and this is what they think Barbera should look like . And then we've got the sort of from the Ravetto , the more yippee-zangy , you know . Let's just drink it . Yeah , I'm not spending $53 on it , but it is a bloody .
That said , go out and try it , it really is quite . It's an interesting concept .
I just keep thinking of Alba and the truffles , you know , the pasta bianca with just beautiful truffles shaved over the top , and I think that that would be beautiful , that tallini shit , that other than I don't know what that is um , I don't know , favorite maybe , no , no , no , clearly the last one , but I don't want to just say the last one of the rest .
If you want something that you can drink all night , billy button . But if you want something that's interesting and has got a real barbarianess to it , I liked the bubs , I I don't know the bubs , and I don't know if we should use this term , but the bubs is our aldi version of barbara .
You know how we always say aldi says exactly what it is on the bottle . Yep , that is exactly what it is on the bottle . Yep , that is exactly what young , cheap Barbera and I'm . I think that was like $13 . I don't think it was very expensive .
If you want to taste Barbera , what does Barbera taste like ? Go buy that . That is . It's a good . It's a good example , yeah .
I agree , I agree .
So after this , your minds don't change . You're still not going out to buy any more Barbera . No , yeah me either .
No , I mean , if I've got 50 bucks , I'm buying San Gervaisi or even a .
Lange Nebbiolo . I've been buying so much Lange . I have all my friends hooked on Lange , no matter how much you spend 45 bucks . I've got like a nice $40 Lange oh so good . But equally I've bought like a $25 Lange on special for $20 and that was great Lange .
People , lange , nebbiolo and even Costco Do one . We were in there the other day , although . Costco's wine choice is just depressing . There's a lot of Chandon in here . Depressing , I'm going to cut that You're making me do editing here . No , no , no , it's the marketing . It's your garden spritz so perfectly .
But yeah , there's no Lange , there's no Chevrolet anymore . It's all just shit , Australian stuff .
Anyway , we'll cut that . I would never expect there to be Lange in Costco anyway . Yeah , there used to be , did they ? Yeah , they just buy whatever shit's at
¶ Plans for future episodes
the cheapest price . I don't know . I think we've touched on Lange before , but I do think we need to reinforce that . If you want a good red line , let's do Lange , let's do Lange , let's do Lange . Yeah , yeah , okay , let's do Lange . So we're doing Gippsland Lange and and I don't know well , there was another one whitlands . Oh yeah , whitlands .
Oh my god , we've already . We've just done all our preparation for next week . No , we actually need to do . Um . I've been collecting bottles for we are going to do an episode iconic wines of australia . So we've got ourselves some noble one . We've got yara yaring and we need to hunt down probably the last few . We probably need a vat one .
We probably need to send it to us . Last few , we probably need a VAT one . The wineries need to send it to us . Well , that's what I'm angling at . Here's another delivery . Anyone listening ?
I swear this woman keeps Australia Post alive . Yeah , You're such a consumer . Yeah , I am aren't ?
I Say bow , say bow . We need to wrap this up . Wrap this up , because Billy's about to wake up . We haven't managed . It really is . We just did three in her nap . That was awesome .
I know that was so good , okay and the first one was rambling we weren't no , but we got kind of like .
No , it was interesting . I don't know . We kind of like butted heads a little bit . I liked it . I think it makes it interesting . Anyway , we're done . Um , you can always tell when we've recorded , when we're on the last episode . A little bit of wine . That needs a bit of a nap . Now that needs a nap . I've got energy . I need to dance .
Okay , we'll be back with you next week . Until next time , enjoy your next glass of wine and drink well .