¶ Exploring Wine With Nico and Lambrusco
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Matt . We are here to help you navigate the world of wine . I'm Matt Gilchrist , run by Master of Wine Meg Brotman , and we have a guest this week . Thank you for joining us , Niko . I wrote down your surname and I forgot to get it out .
Peccalini .
Peccalini .
Tortellini , tortellini , pellacani .
Pellacani , pellacani . Okay , there we go .
Nico Pellacani , it sounds so much better when you say it , I know , say it one more time .
Pellacani .
Pellacani , that's fantastic .
What does it mean ? It actually means like dog skinner .
Dog skinner . Oh , that's right . I always think Spanish can't . Even In Italian it is dog yeah .
Yeah . So , if you haven't picked up on this yet , nico is Italian and he is joining us to talk about Lambrusco . We got an email from Nico telling us that he knows a few people who are doing Lambrusco a cool and interesting way , and we were like we only know about the old Lambrusco so interested to hear what you've got to say . So why don't ?
Before we get into it , nico , can you tell us a little bit about your background , how you got into wine and what you're doing now ?
Totally my pleasure . So I was born in the Lambrusco wine region okay , in the province of Modena , which is usually known for balsamic vinegar and fast cars such as Ferrari and Maserati , but it's definitely a land of food and wine as well , like all Italy , I would argue food more than wine .
Well , it's got Parma , parmigiano , modena , vinegar , so , like the three basic life forms that you need to live a good life , the things that you need , and then your wine .
Oh man .
Look , maybe we can change your opinion .
That's why I want to talk to you Shots fired early by me .
That's why this is going to open my eyes , because I actually visited and my mind was blown by the different styles of wine made in the region . But anyway , back to you .
You were born there and food and wine . In food and wine and my family does not have a background necessarily in food and wine my dad was working for a company that produced liquor and now is in uh working for a company that makes balsamic vinegar the largest producer , yeah , yeah , a brand that's very known as Mazzetti , very popular here in Australia .
And I got into wine just um through university . I chose my , my degree . I chose to study uh at the university of Bologna , thought I wanted to be both in nature and create something . I wanted to be able to travel , and also I've always had a passion for food and wine . You're Italian , yeah .
You don't have a choice , do you ?
Si sono italiano .
I think it's born into your genes .
Yeah , I guess , so , I guess , so I'm very grateful for that . So then , from you know , from this start , I go ahead and do an internship in the United States of America , in California , and this is why I talk like this and I fell in love with just the process . Where in California were you , I was in napa um . I started working for a winery ?
Um named saintsbury that's very well still there , yeah , um and um , saintsbury and me created a very um good relationship , especially with tim the winemaker .
I went again back the following year and did my experimental thesis an experiment from vineyard to barrel um , and graduated university through that uh , and two years later , after having worked a couple jobs in the vineyard in italy and for italy's largest winery um , caviero um , I was hired as the full-time assistant winemaker by Tim .
So there was a bit of a life change and since then I've been on the roll . I've been on the roll .
How's the food in Napa compared to Modena ? Look Good produce , though I imagine . So , you could make everything yeah , yeah , yeah Unbelievable . You just can't go out for it . Good produce , though , I imagine . So you could make everything yeah , yeah , yeah , unbelievable , go out for it .
Yeah , I've never had a bad meal in Napa , to be honest with you . You just have to be prepared to spend .
It's different . Do you like In-N-Out burgers ? I love In-N-Out burgers .
They are good .
After a night out drinking .
It's only Californian , isn't it ? In- , in-n-out , from what I understand .
I think so , I think so . That's why I'm going back .
People talk . When you fly into San Francisco airport , literally the first thing you see when you get on the road is this massive I don't know where it is , but you see this massive In-N-Out burger sign and I always stop in and get a burger . I love it .
Have you ever had ?
it . I've never had it . No , they're kind of thinner . They're more like a smashed burger really than a I don't know .
Anyway , I digress . Okay , so done a bit of winemaking Now . You are here in . Where are you making wine at the moment ?
I am not making wine at the moment . I'm getting ready to be making wine again in California , and I'm getting ready to be making wine again in California and I'm actually starting a master's degree , an MBA , in wine business at Sonoma State University . So back to California in a month .
Cool , will you do vintage ?
I will do vintage as well .
Okay , so that'll support you . So Nico did vintage at Rob Doll and Wines and you're on the sort of agricultural scheme that they have here , so you've been working in can we ? Wrap . Now , where are you ?
Yeah , I've been working a little bit for an organic vegetable farm . Right , yeah , yeah .
Do we still make ?
people work on farms ? Yes , and the Yarra Valley , unfortunately , did you know ? We still did . So you get your two-year visa or something , so you can stay for two years if you want .
I can renew it once . If I want to renew it again , I have to work six months instead of three on a farm .
It's the most hilarious thing that we make people work on farms in Australia . It's the only way we get people .
We don't have that seasonal labour that we need . It's a great scheme .
Unfortunately , Yarra Valley doesn't fall within the remit .
So people can't come and work in the vineyards or wineries or whatever , it's just stupid .
All right , well , we are going to get to Lamebrusco , but first , nico , can you tell us what you've been drinking ?
I've been drinking a few things , but the most recent one since I followed with what Adrian Santolin , winemaker at Rob Doll and Wine , said Try Italian varieties made in Australia . I'm a bit nostalgic , you know , and Do you write them ?
How do you find ?
Fun .
Cool .
Okay , fun , fun . It's a different approach , definitely less traditional . Yeah , I was recently in Northcote having delicious pizza with my friend , vivian and , um , I saw this bottle of Nebbiolo Refosco . Uh little ready um 2023 . I did some digging after cause when I , whenever I drink something that I like , you know I .
I always dig and the wine has this very , almost amaranth color . It looks like it's not filtered . I loved how it was very in your face with these high tones of like sour cherry , but then it had an herbaceousness to it . It almost reminded me of very fresh , you know , like moroccan tea .
Um , and I was having this delicious gorgonzola and pear and rocket pizza , yeah , so it just paired so well . Nice and juicy rustic tannin . Um , I don't know the tannin was good the tannin was good , the tannin was good Nebbiolo-esque . Refosco . Yeah , yeah , yeah . Yeah , it was Nebbiolo-esque for sure .
I can see it . I'll put a link to this wine in the show notes if anyone wants to go out and try it . It's $32 .
So it's a Heathcote wine .
It is Yep , it is indeed $32, .
That's pretty good , you probably paid a bit more didn't you Worth a try , or was it ? Byo . I think I paid like $50 . Oh , that's not too bad Mark up for a restaurant .
Yeah , yeah .
It was all right .
And Meg , what's your fun fact ?
Very cool fun fact . Okay , so they've taken . They found in the International Space Station that people aren't enjoying their food and International Space Station that people aren't enjoying their food .
And so they've done a study somewhere in America where they mimicked the atmosphere of whatever is on the International Space Station and they gave people the aroma and flavour for lemon vanilla . What was the other one ? There was one more . I can't remember To see how the atmospheric change impacted on it .
Lemon had absolutely no change , yeah , whereas the vanilla and the other one I can't remember what it is now looks much more aromatic and more , if they can taste it more . Oh , that's cool , and it's because they , whatever their second flavour compound was , it will come to me . I only read this this morning . My God , I'm getting old .
It has a benzoyl aldehyde in it , so they're chemically similar . But the other one , linalool , is that lemony sort of aroma . They think it's because of the chemical structure , but even though it's heightened , they felt that the food should be more enjoyable , so they've actually brought it down to them being lonely , so their food's not as nice .
Oh , that's really sad , because they've got no one to share it with and it's something to do with your water in your body ends up in a different part of your body because of the space station .
So please tell me someone's getting to work on a specific wine that can be consumed in space .
Well , it's interesting because they brought it back to the fact . That's why , when you fly , food doesn't taste as good because it's in this sort of controlled atmosphere you lose a lot of these flavour compounds . People do when they do tasting for wine on airlines , they actually fly . Yeah , Good carbon to taste the wines .
Oh , wow , yeah , That'd be a cool job .
So you need to do the same thing in space If anyone from space NASA , whatever the equivalent in Australia is If you're listening on the International Space Station , if you want to get us to space to do the tasting with you in space .
I'm not going to space .
Yeah , no , I've seen too many space movies it never ends well .
You've got to be you're fit .
We'll send Nico . You'll be all right . You can take the wine up .
But what happens when you open a bottle of bubbles ?
They go everywhere . I don't know that's so fun .
Yeah , so it came down to even though the flavours are actually heightened , it's because they're lonely .
Oh well , that's sad . Maybe they need to take more wine , and they won't be . They'll have more fun . Okay , we're going to go into talking about Lambrusco . Meg , can you take us off with a bit of background on Lambrusco and what is the general thoughts on Lambrusco in Australia ?
So in Australia the history of Lambrusco is in 1.5 litre bottles , is in 1.5 litre bottles , probably 750 ml to 1.5 , under cork , slightly frizzante , red and sweet , chilled , low alcohol , 5% to 6% . And when I was working in the UK I worked with quality control for a supermarket called Quick Save capital K classy supermarkets and they're called Morrison's .
But the wine that came through most , which meant it was being sold the most for quality control , was Lambrusco and I was intrigued and so I actually took myself off not that long ago , probably about six years ago , because it is such a food bowl , so I was really going for the food .
But while I was here I went to a calf cooperative there I can't remember what it was and they had wines made from all the different grape varieties and I didn't realize that there were different grape variety . I just thought it was one generic red grape variety and some of them were bone dry .
Some of them were absolutely savory and beautiful and almost Nebbiolo-esque in their tannin structure and I was really blown away by them .
¶ Discovering Lambrusco in Italy
But here in Australia really it's hard to buy . It is having a little bit of a moment with the cool kids . Yeah , we are seeing some Lambroscos coming through , but anyone that's sort of millennial and older thinks of it Sweet and low quality right is what we're used to here .
Passion pop yeah . The Coca-Cola of wine yeah .
Yeah , but it's not , and that's what you're here to help us with . Tell us all about it . I didn't , for instance Nicole will talk about this in a minute but we've got classic method , so method traditionelle .
There's way more to it than just maybe you need different names .
Yeah , I guess it's a bit of a marketing push . Kick off , Nico . What do we need to know about Lambrusco now ?
Well , first of all , I want to say what you said , meg . It's not wrong . I think there is this halo that follows Lambrusco after poor marketing choices in the past .
They obviously worked , because it's still , to this day , the most sold wine in Italy . How did they market it ?
Just creating a product that doesn't necessarily represent what the land really can give , you know . So just creating this image of the Coca-Cola , of wine , you know , low alcohol and sugar , and it is the most sold wine in Italy . Yeah , still by volume it is Wow , yeah , not in the most sold Italian wine . Yeah , I think Prosecco is getting up there .
Yeah , that's crazy that it's more than Prosecco . Oh , my wine . Yeah , I think Prosecco's getting up there .
Yeah , that's crazy , that it's more than Prosecco , oh my God yeah .
And the landscape's quite flat . Yes , yes , definitely from memory . Yeah , so and well . Irrigation so you can get high volume in your grapes yeah , also .
They're naturally lambrusco grapes , which there are many of them . We'll name a few .
Um , they're naturally very high on when it comes to yield so that sort of normal italian , what we're talking about when people think about Lambrusco . What would be the grape varieties in that ?
So the most common and most planted grape varieties of Lambrusco are in the province of Modena , where I'm from , and they're Salamino , sorbara and Grasparossa .
Why is it called Lambrusco ?
I do not know . I think it comes from the labrusca species name . Ah , vitis labrusca . Ah , although this is a Vitis vinifera . Okay , that's the only connection I can think about Slow down what ?
Vitis labrusca . So you know how you have it's what Vitis vinifera ? This is Vitis vinifera , slow down . What Vitis labrusca ? Do you know how you have ? It's what Vinus vinera . This is vitis vinifera , vinifera .
Sorry , slow down . Let's explain Even back that .
So wine grapes are solely made Wines of quality . Wines of quality yes , when it comes to legislation . At can , at least in Italy , you can only make wine from Vitis vinifera , which is a specific species .
Eurasian yes .
Eurasian species .
The one that's susceptible to phylloxera .
But this is a different .
Yeah , the Labrusca is a different species . It's been used for rootstock . Yeah , it's used for rootstock . I think I might be saying something wrong . Another thing that comes to my mind but this is all out of logic is brusco means sour , okay , and lambrusco , oh , it's , it's sour . We were talking about grapes that are ripe and have total acidities of 10 .
So Lambrusco , I think is Concord in America . Lambrusco , mm , so you know that grape flavor in bubble gum and stuff . Yeah , that I think is from Vitis .
Lambrusco because we had it at Roseworthy which was the winemaking college here , I think is from Vitis Labrusca , because we had it at Roseworthy , which was the winemaking college here , and it has this particular . They call it foxy flavour , but it is very sour , high in acid used for rootstocks . But we digress .
Yes , we are digressing . Who cares why it's called Labrusca ? We'll find out , yeah .
Tell us about it .
Yeah . So let's go back to the three main varieties . Okay , in the province of Modena , um , which is the core of Lambrusco production , we're talking about the region of Emilia Romagna .
Okay , so it's split into two by a dash in the middle , in the middle , and we're talking about the western portion of this region , which is basically where the heart of italy would be .
It's the southernmost region of northern italy , so , below lombardy and veneto and above tuscany and marke , okay , um , the romagna side , which is the eastern part , that's looking up on the Adriatic Sea , is famous for the production of Sangiovese and Albana . But Lambrusco comes from Emilia , only Emilia , so only one portion of the region .
So there's only one region , one portion of the region , that can make Lambrusco in all of Italy .
¶ Lambrusco Grape Varieties and Styles
You can grow Lambrusco grapes , but you can't call them Modena di Ossi when it comes to the denominations of origin . You're tied to that .
You can't call it Lambrusco .
You can call it Lambrusco , you just can't call it Lambrusco di Modena , di Ossi , oh , I see .
So Lambrusco is a style . Lambrusco is a style .
Lambrusco is a variety , variety , so this is Lambrusco grasparosa . Yes .
Is it protected ? Could we call something Lambrusco in Australia ?
You could if you had , Because it's the grape name . Yeah , if you planted Lambrusco grapes , definitely . You just can't give it the DOC . The Grasparossa you mentioned , it's a variety and the DOC , specifically , is di Castelvetro , so it's from Castelvetro di Modena , which is one town , one town in the province of Modena .
I saw that , but I was too afraid to pronounce it . I was just like , okay , we'll just leave that one , so shall we taste . Tell us what you've got . What have you brought us ? What's the journey that we're going , the Bruscan journey we're going on .
There we go . So we're going to go . Since Lambrusco is so wide , you know , there are so many styles . We're going to try something from the hills and something from the plains , you know . So two different terroirs , um , and also two different um wine making techniques . Okay , one that's more traditional in the making .
So charmat , re-fermenting autoclave as we say in australia , charmat charmat fermented charmat , charmat , charmat okay i-mat , char-mat .
Okay , I got to learn that . And then we also see a declination of Lambrusco made with the method Champenoise .
And that's historical . That's always been the case .
No , traditionally , char-mat is the way Lambrusco has been done , but lately , many wineries and it's not that , not that recent , you know they started going for higher quality and it's very simple and very understandable why um the grapes uh have great mineral uh and savoriness , especially on the plains , um good structure , the acidity , as I said before , is incredible
and it fits . It fits the profile . But that's what's so amazing about this variety you can do so much with it and when would you normally pick ?
like ? What sort of bome bricks by me ? I don't know what you work um , it depends .
It depends what you want to do with it . Definitely , if you go , go for champignons , I would stay within .
I usually think in bricks , okay you can do bricks and I can work it out , yeah .
Usually I would say something between 19 and 22 .
It's about 10 . So is that ?
similar to what we do with sparkling in Australia .
Yeah , like chardonnay 10 to 10.5 , maybe 11 . And you've got flavor at that level .
It depends on the variety . Okay , sorbara , definitely . Yes , the red varieties , I'd let them develop a little further on , and if the vintage is all right , the acidity will stay .
Are there any white varieties in Lambrusco ?
There are , but they're not called Lambrusco . We go into Malbo , gentile and Spergola , which are two white varieties that can be usually are made as sparkling or frizzante .
There is on the market some white lambrusco , but I'll be fair with you , I think it's just pressed and vinified , vinified white , and so no maceration at all and maybe use a little charcoal to to drop the color . Okay , it's not the main thing , though . Historically we want color in Lambrusco . That's why we also have grapes like Ancelotta .
Ancelotta is a grape that's mainly made to color other wines and it's sold around all Italy bulk wine of Ancelotta to just put a little bit of ink here and there , similarly to Alicante .
So it's a tonterre variety , so the juice is Black , black . Okay , yes , so they're called tonterre in French tinted varieties , so Alicante , whatever you just said , ancelotta , ancelotta , ancelotta . It just sounds so nice . I know .
I just want to copy everything you're saying .
In Chile we had Tintorera . Okay , so you put about 2% of Tintorera in , you pick it around 11% , 12% . It also has really high acidity . Lagrimas de Jesus Jesus' tears that's fun , that's what it was called . That's another name , because Jesus' cried blood . It's just for colour .
You grow it high volume . Yeah , okay .
It's got . You know it's deep colour . You can add 2% . Yeah .
Is that what ? What's it called in America , Like deep purple or something ? Mission ?
Mega red .
Yeah that's it . Oh , my God , okay .
Anyway , moving on , let's try . I want to taste . What are we drinking ? Let's taste .
Which one do you want first ?
I've opened these two we don't know .
Yeah , you've opened these two , we have five wines here I would go rosé first . We this 20-20 , Metodo Classico .
Rosé Is that 2020 ?
Yes , it is , and this is a winery that started just a few years ago . My dear friend , andrea , who's my age , so 27 , and who was my roommate in university , him and his family just started this operation that farms the grapes organically , and I've been a part of it briefly .
I helped them with um , you know , um promoting the wine , and I also worked and pruned vineyards with them at the end of 2023 , right before coming here to Australia , uh , and I really , really , really believe in the project .
Um , I think the way they express what the land is and let the grapes show just by , for example , reducing the blending , they want to do this is 100% Sorbara .
But it's just a rosé , so they've bled off . Or do they press it , Sorbara ?
doesn't have much color .
So Sorbara is a grape .
Yes .
I'm confused . Sorbara is a grape , the rosé is a style .
But I thought the grape was Lambrusco .
It's Lambrusco di Sorbara , so it's Lambrusco , specifically from the town of Sorbara . So that's how detailed .
So Lambrusco is the grape and Sorbara is the town .
Yes , there are about 10 different Lambrusco grapes . They're all Lambrusco , but depending on where they're from , they have different characteristics .
So there's 10 grapes , but they're called Lambrusco . Yeah , but it's like .
Italy's got , Tribiano's got about 40 bazillion names in .
Yeah , no , but this is a different grape at all Like .
It's completely different from I don't understand how it's called .
So imagine like , let's put it like a Pinot Noir , Pinot Blanc and Pinot Gris .
Okay . Let's think it a little closer to that Right , something like that .
Not really oh .
But think of closer to that Right , just like that . Not really , oh , but think of it like that so that we can explain it .
Let's think of a family okay where the siblings are very different from one another yeah . Okay , but similar in some ways . I'll give you a very interesting example . As we start drinking .
Cabernet Sauvignon , cabernet Franc yeah , nice , but Lambrusco , blah , blah , blah . Yeah , I can't remember the names the family comparison is really fun .
So , when you plant Lambrusco di Sorbara , you must alternate your rose with Lambrusco Salamino okay , which we'll taste later , because Lambrusco di Sorbara is suffers from bud sterility , okay , and you must have the salamino right next to it so that the pollination can happen , okay .
So it's not self-fertilizing .
No , it's not self-fertilizing . Oh my gosh , so you need bees as well . You need bees as well .
Yes , very important . Oh my gosh .
And also salamino . It's called salamino because the grape cluster looks like a little salami .
Oh , that's so cute , that's so cute .
You'll taste that later .
So it's a very pale salmon pink , but it's almost onion skin .
Onion skin totally . I salmon pink .
But it's almost onion skin onion skin . Totally , I love it . It's beautiful , it's so so this is fermented what was this charmado ? Now , this is traditional method , traditional method .
So we're secondary fermentation in the bottle . Is it whole bunch pressed ?
like . Do you follow that ? Sort of champagne was method yeah , andrea , at 20 , 20 with this product it's a whole bunch pressed uh , zero maceration uh . Then what they do is they cold , stabilize the must at zero degrees for over a month , so they they clean it just with cold , okay .
And then they make the base wine , um , and after they made the base wine , they , you know , bottle it . It stays in bottle for uh 30 months on yeast , okay and then is that law 30 months 30 months um . is that Law ? Is that the legislation ? No , that's their choice .
Oh good , meg , can you just translate some of the things that we've spoken about here , not the language , I mean the wine trance . Cold stabilization of the must . Can you talk about that ?
So must is the juice , basically Inralia must is juice and skins and juice is just juice . So what they do is they take the juice because you can't fix up the wine or stabilize the wine after the bottle fermentation because you can't take . You're not taking it out of the bottle , you've got to get everything right before it goes into bottles .
So traditionally , with method , traditional in australia , we would bentonite fine during ferment . So we would add bentonite during fermentation . So that's going to remove any unstable proteins .
In case you go out and throw your bottle of wine in your car on a 40-degree day and then come home and throw it in the fridge and it throws a bit of a cloudiness , this is the opposite . This is in cold solutions . Tartaric acid comes out of solution and it just forms little crystals but people think it's glass . So we cold stabilise it .
We're basically removing that happening 30 days sounds like a long time , though .
Yes .
Is it not ?
I imagine it's probably longer because you're doing with must . There'd be a lot more colloidal material in there than we're doing in wine .
We don't do it in must .
And it probably gives them some space some time .
Yeah , yeah . Yeah , there's also a whole lot of chemical reactions that happen in there . Yeah , I know there's no skins , but it is sort of a maceration . You know you have a separation but still a contact with the leaves . So there is some method to that too .
So some of the solids are settling out and they've got colour compounds in them . Yeah , okay , yeah yeah .
And I'm definitely getting that acidity you were talking about .
Isn't it there ? Huh , it's fantastic , it's bloody delicious , it is wild .
It is super saline , mm-hmm , very mineral . It's surprising .
Given Saline Mm-hmm , very mineral . It's surprising , given 30 months . I was expecting to see more Lee's contact , more of that autolytic character . There is a you're going to hate this . There is a slight Vegemite smell on the nose Vegemite . No , I get that . I get that your friends will be going . What you need to take some Vegemite home .
Yeah , at this Malaysian restaurant last night they did chicken ribs with Vegemite , because apparently they traditionally do it in Malaysia in Marmite . But anyway , I digress again . There is , there's a slight , you know , when you open a jar of Vegemite . This is fantastic . This is so food friendly .
So yum .
So what would this ? Where is your friend marketing at this ? What's the sort of point ? Because this is obviously not the traditional lambrusco yeah this is high end .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , he's not alone in this . There are other producers um again . This is 2020 um have you ?
have you seen anything like this in australia ? Can we get anything like this in ?
Australia . Can we get anything like this here ? I have not . We actually brought these .
Nico's mate sent the wines . Yeah , I have not . I know there is intention to start to come into Australia . Andrea would love to do that .
That would shit all over Prosecco , I know . I know , I know and I'm probably imagining it's probably not more expensive , even though it's 30 months on , surely not , it's more expensive than Prosecco .
So your high-quality Prosecco in Italy , high-quality will go just above €10 , I would say per bottle . This stuff is closer to €20 , double Okay so we're talking €45-ish .
No way , is that all here ?
No , that's not landed here .
Oh true .
So if you were to sell it here , I mean if you were buying it in a 20-euro price , wine for quality here would be about $45 . Of course it's not going to be $45 because , we like throwing tax on people who bring wine in , Of course yes , so yeah , it's not going to be $45 , but that's sort of the quality level .
So it is high quality . I don't even think this can be compared with Prosecco . I think this is in another league . You know we're talking about , especially if we're talking about this specific Champenoise . We're talking about the Italians of Franciacorta , the Italians of Trento , dio C .
Yeah .
We're talking about some levels of champagne or Cremant yeah , you know so or many other sparkling , delicious sparkling wines that are around the world , you know .
The dryness is . The dryness is awesome , so there's no dosage . This is not for everyone .
This one is actually dosed . Oh , andrea uses very , very gentle Liquor de Expedición . Wow , which is the for the public at home . It's just the little imprint signature the winemaker adds after the Gorgemont .
So when the yeast , the autolyzed yeast , is taken out of a method , classic method bottle , and Andrea uses a little addition of barrel aged wine , can barely nice . Yeah , and it's a dose of two grams per liter .
Nothing , nothing yeah , do you know what the acid would be on this ?
um , I think this is we're we're shooting . I want to say between eight and nine yeah , grams per liter , yes , of total acidity it feels .
Obviously when you've got bubbles , you feel the acid a lot more .
We have a lot of wine to get through .
Can I just ask ?
food , sorry , okay Food . What would you say ? Meg can never forget food .
They are in the food bowl of Italy we are .
This place is just the . I don't know why I'm interested . What would you eat with ?
it Look . First of all , I want to say that wines like this are so versatile . You could have it with seafood , you could have it with cheeses . You know , there's no limits .
Parma ham .
Parma ham . What Andrea likes to serve this with is a specific kind of mortadella from our region which is called La Favola the fairy tale .
See again . Mortadella's kind of got a really bogan cheap sandwich meat feel in Australia , I know . I think you need to market better from your region ,
¶ Tasting and Exploring Lambrusco Varieties
there's plenty of mortadella . For you , that's the second time you've mentioned it in a high-end food context . I know Today and it's not what . It's not what you guys are for you , that's the second time you've mentioned it in a high-end food context .
I know today and it's not what it's not what you guys are yeah , we just think of it as like used to like it was bologna , yeah , probably , yeah , yeah , it's bologna mortadella .
Is that what it is ? No , okay .
No , it's a cheap I don't know , I love mortadella . An abomination anyway .
We should move on to the next one . So you would save it with um , yeah , he serves it with mortadella with . It's an abomination .
Anyway , we should move on to the next one so you would serve it with yeah , he serves it with mortadella , with lemon juice and cracked black pepper on it , but I would honestly See Italy .
three ingredients , that's all they ever do , but they're premium . What about like halloumi ?
Oh sure .
That would be so nice .
Yeah , that'd be more of a pairing than a contrast , I would say but yeah , that'd be great or , um , I mean anything , cold cuts and and cheese . Um , that's like what our uh sorry , our region base base is on , you know yeah if a pig enters emilia romagna . They know , they know , they're done , they know , they're done .
They know they're done .
Sorry , Vegas .
When I was there I ate very well , like in cafes next to service stations the food was next level , phenomenal , for you know , six euros a plate , and it was just . I just parked wherever I saw workers' vans because they know where the cheap , good food is .
Ah , clever . Okay , what's next ?
All right , I'd say we can jump to the next rosé okay okay , and we'll go . We'll go on the hills this time . This is another very , very interesting producer who takes a bit more of uh , let's say , um usual method .
So these guys are doing um tank fermented wine , and what's unusual about this wine is that it's um grasparossa di castelvetro , so a variety that's very often um vinified as a red wine , so with um long mac , and this one is made as a rosé . And here we're in the town of Castelvetro , on the hills near Modena . So very , very different scenario .
This is a variety that I remember from my little trip there as being very tannic and very acidic . I'm not sure if that's .
That is exactly correct .
Yeah , and this is the one that grabbed my attention , because I just thought it was a Lambrusco , and it is , but it's part of the family . But I remember trying this bone dry wine , and it was under cork too , so it was amazing , amazing .
This is so different to the last one . Oh my gosh . It has so much flavor . It's like blackberries and rabina and stuff like . It is crazy that this same kind of I mean these labeled very differently . Yeah .
Yeah , okay . First of all , what we had before was a sparkling . This is a frizzante .
So , much lower A tag method , so you don't have that . Yeah , it is much more confected fruit , definitely .
Than the first one yeah , candy-ish , yeah To the nose , and it has this slight bitter end , you know , which is typical of Grasparosa yeah , yeah , there's almost like a bit of cherry , sour cherry character to it .
I love the finish and I love the acidity . I don't necessarily love that big confecta bomb of flavor in there , it's almost a little bit lolly-like , I don't know definitely , but I love the way it finishes I can think of a lot of people who would like it yeah , yeah , yeah I think it could actually do well yeah I think so too .
Yeah , these guys are um their . Their operation is called fattoria moretto . Fattoria moretto from cast Castelvetro di Modena , and they've been around for a while . They know what they're doing .
And how much would this sort of sell for in Italy ? I ?
think this is around a 10 euro .
Okay , so it's like a 25-ish dollar bottle of wine here , yeah .
That would be really good with like salty food You're talking about food now . Oh my God . I know this is a food one for me the last one . I'd happily just sit and just drink it without anything , but this one makes me go . I want something salty that I think would Contrast it really well .
That first one is like an aperitivo for me . It just says you've got to start eating Something .
To me all the good Lambruscos are what we say , what we call in Italy , mangiababy . That means just eat and drink .
eat and drink , oh I thought you said mangiababy , mangiababy , mangia , I know to eat , but mangiababy , I think it's a great little tag .
Mangiababy . Yeah , All right , we've got a slogan . We need to change it .
The new slogan for lambrusco yeah and you can kind of write it the same way but do the australian accent on it , so it could mean the same so it's eat drink , eat drink .
And it's not just , it's also the feeling that I have when I drink this wine you're almost like it feels not just like drinking you know you have this savoriness and the acidity is just so lip smacking . It is super refreshing ?
Yeah , it is , but they're not . It's not lolly water . No , it's really actually quite interesting the acidity and dryness on the end is very Serious , is a bad term .
It's really refreshing your palate yeah , it's yummy , oh , okay .
That was fun .
I really enjoyed that Fantastic . So we've already seen quite .
I imagine we're going to see . Nothing's going to look the same . They're all going to be yes , and that's the beauty of it , oh we're on to him and this is what we don't see in Australia . This is what blew my mind the variety of styles in the region that we just get exported , like you said , the Coke in one and a half liter bottles .
I understand it's hard . It's hard to market something that's so different , you know , and it's hard to explain it and to deliver it unless you go there and see for yourself , you know . But I think Lambrusco has such great potential .
But your wine tourism is well now I would say it's pretty bad it is .
That's one thing that I'm so proud . I'm so proud of Andrea because , at Venti , venti , so proud . I'm so proud of andrea because at 20 20 they're just focusing on that .
They have an incredible restaurant and great dishes to pair with um , with their wines , they give you an experience and in italy , especially in emilia romagna , that is still very , very rare no , because I tried to get on a tour .
Such a thing did not exist , so I just just rang , wrote , emailed individual wineries , mwf . Do you know them ? It can open up doors .
Yeah , I bet .
And they all said , look , we're in the middle of harvest . I was actually staying in a vineyard winery .
Yeah .
So I went out and helped with harvest and stuff . But they were like we're in the middle of harvest , it's a little bit tricky , but come on down . And the winemakers came in . But most of the cellar doors If I use that term loosely Were like wine shops selling food and their level of interest in wine . It wasn't like let's taste these wines . No .
No , that's something that we didn't have to do and it's food heaven .
I know , I know , I know that is something . Thank you . We had a bit of a spill in the meantime .
That's probably my driving .
Italian driving .
The traffic today because of the rain . It's like it never rains in Melbourne . Anyway , sorry , I was having to slam on the brakes a few times . All right , sorry , no worries , no worries .
The wine has suffered . Most of it is still in the bottle . Yeah , and now it's going to go into our glasses .
And then into my mouth , which is where it belongs . There you go . So this is what grape variety .
This is the grape we were talking about earlier , the one that looks like a little salami . Oh yes , salami grape . Yeah , the salamino Salamino .
Salamino .
Di Santa Croce .
And so what is ? That's the town .
That's the town . Once again , one more town , one other town Is Croce Cross . No , yeah , st Cross , santa Croce .
And is this the one that has to be planted ? So if you plant Lambrusco Salamino , it has to be planted in between the other Lambrusco .
Yeah , no , this Sorbara Lambrusco , Lambrusco di Sorbara , needs salamino , it's a sterile one .
Yeah , oh , this needs salamino , but salamino doesn't need Sobano , sobano .
Yeah , the little salami pollinates the other Lambrusco pretty much .
Oh , okay , okay , yeah , that's what it is . That is so cool , but it can also pollinate itself .
Yes , okay , salami , salamino . Salamino can , but Savannah can't . She's infertile , she needs a little salami next to her . She's infertile , which is interesting , because from an agricultural perspective , why would you have that ? Do you know what I mean ? Like it doesn't make any sense . It's like having to have two avocado trees .
Yeah , everything's self-fertilizing these days , but I guess historically it's always been the case that they've known and they've just so they harvested all at the same time . I'm imagining , yeah , yeah .
They would harvest all at the same time and most it was very rare to find Lambrusco made with 100% , one single variety of Lambrusco , you know . So what they would do is just harvest everything together and you knew that .
The Salamina would give you color and a bit more red , dark fruit , while the Sorbara in the wine blend , in the field blend , would give you a strong acidity , savoriness and higher tone fruit notes .
So this one is method traditionnel , 100% salamino .
Yes , red . So this is a red Champenoise method traditionnel sparkling wine and characteristics of salamino . Salamino is more towards cherry notes . It has this I like to call it emos , ematic from the Greek word that means blood . Okay , so irony . Irony A little bit to the nose .
I was going to say there is a funky meatiness to it Meatiness , exactly so like when you have a fresh steak . Yes , Definitely . But you're right , it's more that bloodiness than yeah .
This doesn't taste like it's got barely any sugar as well .
This is zero grams of sugar . Yeah , wow , this is fantastic Zero .
It is . It has a really long finish . It's quite bitter , but it just carries . It's really quite interesting .
But interestingly it still has like a pop of sour cherry fruit in the middle . You've still got that sort of tannin acid interplay . Yeah , that's nice .
It's very interesting and this is a 2020 vintage .
Oh , so this is a vintage . Was the Rosé a vintage wine as well , or is that just a ?
Yes , 2020 as well . So Andrea likes the , as I said , the rosé we had before stays on the yeast for 30 months . This one stays for two years , 24 months , and then , after the yeast is separated from the wine , before he commercializes them , he keeps them resting for one year yeah , okay , so do you think you would go back to this region ?
¶ Wine Exploration in Lambrusco
To lambrususco . You mean like working in Lambrusco , yeah like life plan .
I know you're only 27 , so you've got a lot of work to do between now and then .
I'll be honest with you yes , but I don't see myself establishing over there . Okay , my dream is to just make wine around the world and to make that happen , um , I would love to actually make wine in Lambrusco , because it's where , it's where my home is .
Yeah .
It's where my , my roots are . You know , um , and there's always what I want to deliver in wine . At the end of the day Hopefully I'll I'll be able to achieve that is creating a link between a moment , um , a space , people and just resemble an emotion .
You know , I'm , I feel like I'm a pretty nostalgic guy , uh , and I love nostalgia and I'd like to be able to deliver that in a glass .
Oh , does this remind you of how I home drinking there ?
if you're getting a little bit , yeah , heart strings yeah , getting tagged the thing is is is it um a really good region for tourism , like , is it easy to go taste these wines over there ?
no , um not when I was there . Look , I went for a tea . It's , it's better , it's getting better . There's , as I said , this new age , new school of Lambrusco . People are really into this . They want to share more .
They want to . So the new school uh yeah , yeah , yeah .
So both these realities that we're tasting today , which are venti , venti and fattoria moretto , they care about this . Yeah , okay , um , so I think it's getting better and better . Um , it's also um a place where you can find some of the best food in italy yeah , there a Barilla Pasta there as well . That's northern up .
That's in the same region , but northern up .
I'm just thinking that these are some of the most interesting wines I've tasted in ages , and they're also different and awesome , but genuinely high quality and delicious , and I can just think that that feels like a wine region that I would want to explore so people going to italy and the food's awesome .
So if they go there , when they go to italy , can they visit places or can they drink it , like how can you explore wine while you're over there ?
um , all these , these two um win , and I want to name probably three or four more in the Modena province , such as Marchesi di Ravarino . I know this is going to be hard to remember . So maybe if Nico gives us a link , and we can put it in the show notes . Yes , definitely , send me . Yeah , and then next time you're in .
Italy , because I know everyone's bloody going overseas at the moment . Oh , I know Bastards . Pete just won a trip to Italy . No , don't even start me . What was I saying ? Yeah , we'll put a link in the show notes and then you can put together your ideal little tour .
Yeah , that's a good idea , Totally Maybe some restaurants or . Yeah , totally .
Or .
Nico's recommendations . Nico's recommendations , Nico's trips . Now we don't have much time , so we need to get through . Do we want to do one more or two more ?
We have one more wine to go . We have one more ?
Let's do it . No , we have two .
No , we have one One .
One Perfect . All right , I can do it here . So what's this ?
So we go back on , uh , on the hills of castelvetro , and now we're going to have the grasparosa in its more classic iteration um . So this is a 100 percent um grasparosa lambrusco . It's from the grand crew of fattoria moretto , so it's a great , their most high-end selection of vineyard site , and so generally .
I don't know , speak over you . Yeah , no worries . Generally , when we talk about wine growing regions , the hills is where the quality is , but it seems it's the reverse .
You're speaking that there's more flavor on the flats you said something before Because these are from the hills , the frisanti ones or the charmette ones whereas the method traditionelle one is from the two , is from the plains , the plains .
Again , it depends by Producers and variety , because since these , each of these varieties Carries the name of the town From which they are from In their name , okay , so a Grasparosa will deliver better on the hills as a Sorbara will deliver better in the plains .
Okay , will deliver better on the hills as a sorbara will deliver better in the plains , ah , okay .
So can you tell us about grasparosa ? Grasparosa , or you mean , that's the tannic one , this is the tannic one and this is the same one as the tannic one .
So we've tasted . What are they ? The salami one .
Yeah , we've tasted sorbara l'ambrusco di . Sorbara which is the rosé , and the sterile one , the one that suffers from bud sterility . Yeah , and then we tasted a Salamino , a Salamino Di Santa Croce , which is from another town .
The two mythic traditional wines that we've tasted L'Ambrusco Salamino that we've tasted , but it's Lambrusco .
Salamino , yes , di Salamino , lambrusco , salamino di Santa Croce .
Okay , di Santa Croce .
So easy . See how easy it is to market these things .
Yeah , yeah , it's so easy Then we've got Grasparossa from Fattoria Moretto From .
Fattoria Moretto and the town origin is Castelvetro .
Right , right , and now we've got a different , a more tannic version of that .
So it's still gaso perasso . This is same producer .
This is a red , so it's macerated , because the first one was a rosé . Rosé , exactly , and this will have a more classic Lambrusco profile to it . What's ?
so interesting is , all of these wines have been really dry . Even though there's some dosage in there , they finish super dry , fantastic acidity . Do you have in Lambrusco in this region , what we would class as a Lambrusco like the ? 6% , alcohol Do you ?
Nobody buys them Right , do you , nobody buys them Right ? We have sweeter Lambruscos , which we call Amabile , and it translates to English to semi-dry . Okay , but the lowest alcohol I've seen is like 9 to 10 . We don't sweet . Sweet Lambrusco is not as popular back at home in Italy . I think it's made its success abroad .
Is that like how most of the Australian water around the world is the yellowtail right ? Yeah , that's the same thing . Yeah , and this is interesting to me . So it says on the bottle I clearly speak Italian here , I'm assuming this says serve at 12 to 13 degrees . And this is interesting to me .
So it says on the bottle I clearly speak Italian here I'm assuming this says serve at 12 to 13 degrees , is that what you'd recommend for this ? Style . It's probably where they're at , because I didn't refrigerate them because I didn't know what to do with them .
Yeah , I would say it's correct to serve it at such temperature . Grasparosa , especially , is a very , very tannic and acidic wine and we have to remember , the colder the wine is served , the more we'll feel the acidity and tannicity of a wine and all these aromas we have right here . Did you just ?
say tannicity .
I know I loved it too . I was like mental note obsessed . I say penocity , tannicity , tannicity .
I know I loved it too . I was like mental note obsessed . I say penocity .
Tannicity , tannicity , here we go . I was getting that tannicity .
But I see it's perfectly descriptive . Yeah , no , it's great it sounded good .
Maybe it won't sound as good when we say it in Australian accents though .
I don't know . I really like this wine . I love the grip on the mouth .
I just I think I liked the one before it more .
The Salamino .
Salamino .
Yeah , yeah , they're all good they are .
They're all really good wines .
I knew Andrea's wines . Fattoria Moretto I had tasted in the past , but I'm utterly impressed .
Really , really very impressive . You've blown my mind . I did not think I was going to like all these Lambrusco wines this much . That is for sure Lovely . I have a question , though what do you think of sparkling Shiraz ? Have you had it ?
I have .
Oh no , I don't like his spice Tastes sweet .
Yeah , I don't like his farts Tastes sweet . Yeah , I don't know , especially with Come on , we're drinking sparkling wine here . I know , I know we're drinking sparkling breads . It lacked acidity to me , too sticky , too chewy . But I had only a couple examples , I don't remember which ones . I had one with my dear friend Rico , who's a winemaker .
I met in California and then I went to visit in Tasmania . He's currently working there . And yeah , it didn't do it for me . It didn't do it for me .
Seppelts is probably the best , but the dosage is . It's very sweet and the acid is . They're very soapy . It's not , it's a dessert wine , almost . Yeah , it's not a . We have it once a year At .
Christmas , yeah , pretty much .
But it's , isn't it barrel aged too ? Don't they do that yeah ?
Yeah .
Too much flavour , not let's say that Too much flavour . I just can't take all that flavor .
I know what you mean . There's a lot going on in there . And it's not . These are very focused wines .
Yes , yes , yes .
Whereas a sparkling Shiraz is . It's like a kid my son with ADHD . It's like oh , he's over there , and then he's over there , and then he's over there and then he's over there . What is the script on ? This is my . I've got two children with ADHD . It turns out Fuckers . But yeah , it's like new shiny object , but this is much more focused .
And yeah , food , food , Mortadella . I could do mortadella with this , I know I .
And yeah , food , food , Food , mortadella . I could do mortadella with these . Yeah , yeah , I know I really want to eat Italian food now . I want to do that . I'm going to look at my silver spoon for mortadella have you ?
had pumpkin tortelloni . Yes , with amaretto biscuits in the . So the filling has amaretto , a little tiny bit of amaretto biscuit inside of it . Yeah , they're to die for .
But amaretto biscuits are from Piemonte , aren't they ? I know ?
Okay , but you don't mind , we're all Italians , come on .
I read a thing once that the bolognese would put anything . The people from Bologna would put anything in their mouth . I'll eat anything .
We like our food we like our food there .
I went to the place that made those amaretti cookies .
Oh really .
Yeah , and it was just like everywhere and we were literally dying because you were all moving away .
All you young folk oh that's sad ?
I know , no , it is , it's really sad .
Sorry , it is sad , it is sad .
My yeah . What is your finishing remarks ?
questions , whatever I love that rose I the very first one or the second ?
yeah , the first , very first one was mine yeah , it was just . It's a very high-end wine yeah , I'd pay lots of money .
Yeah , I agree and you could . You could have it as an aperitif . It would stand up to food very , very easily . It's celebratory . The color's Wouldn't be doing it in a clear bottle . Listen to our episode on Lightstrike . Okay yeah , bloody delicious . So well done to your friend .
Andrea , yeah , and I care to remind that this is also certified organic European Union certified organic Wow . So there's much , much more challenge that comes in making wines like this .
So , andrea , does Andrea speak English ? Andrea does speak English . Yes , send this to the Prince Wine Store and they should start importing it , because , that is , we don't get enough . Italian sparkling wine French Accord doesn't really Prosecco .
Honestly , this makes me want to go there and taste wine . This makes me want to taste all the Lambrusco Palma ham .
Well , you know , you can be my guest whenever you want to come by . Modena and surroundings .
All right , vinegar , you can expect us .
I think I went to Moretti , the vinegar place . Yeah , what's it called Mazzetti .
Yeah , you did . Yeah , did you see the biggest balsamic vinegar cask in the world ?
Yeah , for a tour . Oh , there you go yeah .
That's where my dad works .
It's in a really ugly bar just off a roundabout . From memory I struggled to find it . It was in this really industrial . But yeah , it's , there's balsamic vinegar and then there's balsamic vinegar .
Yeah , yeah .
Nectar of the gods . Anyway , thank you so much , Thank you guys , this was very , very cool . Just so that everyone knows , nico actually had his mates send these wines to us because we couldn't obviously access them here in Australia .
So thank you yeah hopefully they'll be accessible soon enough .
Oh , yes , yeah , definitely .
if any ever are , let us know and we'll let the listeners know , and any of you that work in retail , talk to your bosses about starting importing their styles and wines , because we need them .
Yeah , awesome . Well , thanks , nico , and good luck for what's next .
Yeah .
MBA , mba .
MBA yeah .
And uni , and uni .
Grazie mille , denara . Obviously alright , that's all for next week , no worries mate this week we'll be back with you next week see you later . Until then , enjoy your next thousand wide drink . Well ,