Carson Leno Fallon. Now it's wine talks with Paul K. Hey, welcome to wine talks with Paul K. And we are in the studio today about to have a conversation with Julie. And I always say. Delaquila. That too. If you say it in italian with the italian accent, it's different introductions. Hernandez. Hernandez. That's right. Oh, that would've been easier. Hey, listen. Have a listen to Chris Phelps. I just re released his episode. I completely
forgotten about this winemaker in Napa Valley. If you're going up the highway 29, you make a hard left right inside St. Helena. Make a hard right after that, and you end up in this very understated tasting room where Chris Phelps and his son Josh make wines. And he had worked in the greatest places in the world to make wine and now makes wine in Napa. It's called ad Vivim. Incredible conversation and very philosophical
about winemaking. Also in the studio last week was Matthew Borde from Chateau Lagrange Saint Julien, a classified growth Bordeaux. And here how he works in what is a very exclusive industry in Bordeaux, France, but for corporate Japan, actually for Suntory corporation. So you'll hear something very interesting from Matthew, but not why we're here. We're here to catch up with an old friend, an old, you know, I think almost
a mentor to me. Right. Really? And, yes, and because of you, and I tell this story all the time. It's what business is about. And you've always said, this is like, I'm going to help you, and you never asked for help back, but we always wanted to help each other. We always wanted to grow each other. And I have to tell you, when you first came in here about 20 years ago. Sorry, I'm turning it off. 20. Was it 20 years ago that you walked into actually, almost exactly where you're sitting right now?
Yeah, probably like about maybe like 17 years ago, because I started in the chains and stuff like that. But, yeah, it's. It's been a long time. You realize, literally the studio where you're sitting is steps away from the day you walked in here with Bo and he introduced you. Yeah. You know what my thought was? What? You don't know? My thought was what? Oh, yeah. I tell you this already. I kind of heard it. But you, I think you were just like, oh, my gosh, who would emotion in here?
I'm like, seriously? You know, wine warehouse. When they first came out to see me, a young girl came and I called the manager and said, look, you know, please don't send me somebody who's never done this before because I've been doing it too long, and I need, like, I don't want to educate anybody. That's not what I thought about you. But Beau had done a really good job before you came in, and so I was a little nervous. And what does that mean, a good job? You supported us. Well, it
goes back to this. Business is all about relationships. You can't do anything without starting with a relationship. And then as you grow you, and, like, in that situation and you're bringing in somebody, you have to have that foundation and that platform where you've built that trust to where he could have brought me in through your relationship to be like, hey, give her a chance. Let her just come in and bring some wines. And. And I think our
relationship has just been that. Like, I'm sure that was the impression of me, but I think probably our first meeting, I brought in wines, and I was just like, okay, what do you need? What price? Like, how many cases? Like, I just was straight with you, too, that I didn't know anything. Like, I was new and I'm just learning and, you know, so you
teach me. Just tell me, like, what you're looking for. The price, the profile, all those things that as a salesperson, you can narrow down, you know, your suggestions and make it work. Not everybody's like that. I mean, sales is about matching what you have in your quiver to the customer's needs and, or creating the need in the customer's mind that what you have is important. So that's not natural for one. Salespeople have to learn that took me 40 years to figure it out. And you were in a very,
very large organization. And for the listeners, the wine and liquor business is rather strict or rather rigid in its format. There's not a lot of flexibility to run with. And then you add the layers of bureaucracy in corporate America, and it's even less flexible. And so when did you get. I don't remember having this conversation with you. But when did you get into working in this industry? Was it always corporate America? No. So this, like, whole industry fell out of the sky. It was.
So what happened was, I'm in college. I actually wanted to act and model and do that. I went to Cal State Northridge. While I was there, I worked for, you know, quest diagnostics, the laboratory. I worked in the managed care department with all women, by the way. And then I also worked at a tanning salon. And at night I would go and I would do promo modeling, because at the time, you could put that on your resume that you
were doing promo modeling. So, anyways, this managed care department, this department of women would literally just be like, hey, you go do what you need to do. Check in and out. So that's how I was able to get through school and get everything accomplished. But I knew that I needed to work my butt off to get whatever it was that I needed to get or
to get where I was going. So, anyways, I would do these jobs at night, and this woman walks in, and she's wearing a black suit, and I'm probably wearing, like, my little black skirt, my little, like, black, you know, tequila t shirt, whatever brand it was, and high heels and walking around socializing with people, and she walks in a suit. You socializing with people? Shocking. So she walks in and she starts telling me what to do, and I'm like, so confused.
Cause I'm like, oh, I don't know. My agency sent me here, and she's like, no, I'm the sales representative at this bar restaurant, and I booked the promotion so that you could help sell the brand. And I'm like, okay. I mean, it's just crazy how I had no idea. And, like, going through this business talking to people, they have no idea either, like, how anything gets behind the bar or why it's listed
by the glass or by the bottle or what they're pouring you in their. Well, if you say, I want, like, a vodka soda, like, you don't know how that got there. So you were representing the tequila brand. That's why you're wearing the t shirt, and you showed up to do this bit. I'm working for the marketing company that the supplier. You just walk in the door like, okay, I'm here. So what happens is I'm like, I have this light bulb moment in my life. It's very clear where I'm like, why is she wearing
that suit? And I'm wearing this outfit? It was all about the suit, really, that just empowered me to be like, okay, I need to go to the next level. So that weekend, I had a trade show, and I went past a gentleman that had, like, four six foot tables, and just, like, brand after brand lined up, and I went up to him, like, do you represent all these brands? Like, again, I have no clue. I have no clue just how anything is placed at this point. So he says yes. So I
take down his info. Turns out it's one of the biggest distributors in California. And while looking at it, I find the other bigger competitor, and turns out I have an interview with both of them on the same day. Because you walked in and went to the booth? Well, no, because while researching it, I found the top two. So I applied it both, coincidentally, which I'm saying is more like a miracle. I have an interview with both
companies. So the first interview, this kind of paints the picture for the future and stays with me throughout my entire career. It's my competitor. I go in there first, and it's like, in some general sales meeting room with tables all lined up, and it's three men in suits across from me, and I'm sitting by myself in a chair in front of them. Remember, I'm like some 22 year old girl. Like, I still have no clue, you know? I just know I want to get that job. Like, I want to be in
that suit, making that money, right? So I just recall them, like, laughing and talking to each other while I was in the interview. And I just felt, like, so weird. Like, I don't even think they're listening to me. So I get my car, and I go to the next one. This is in an HR, like, office with a gentleman, and he sits me down. He's like, so what is it you want to do? And I'm like, oh, there was this girl in the bar,
and she's wearing the suit. Like, literally went down like that. And he goes, he goes, you're talking about the on premise, like, restaurants, bars, hotels, clubs. I'm like, yeah, that was it. That sounds good. And he goes, yeah, you can't do that. And I'm like, oh, well, how do I get to do that? And he goes, you need to be in the chains for at least six months. I'm like, okay, well, what's that? And he's like, you gotta get up
at. So you knew nothing? Two in the morning. You literally knew nothing. I know. You gotta get up at two in the morning, and you gotta stock the shelves and dust them. I'm like, okay, that's okay. I'll do that. And so he goes, hold on a second. He goes out, another gentleman comes in, he starts asking me questions. They go out again. They come back in, and they say, we like to hire you. So that company hired me on the spot. How did that
feel? Like, right away? Did you expect that? And you were. I felt like. I feel like I've always kind of just known my purpose. Like, if I'm in the right moment, I just kind of. It's just like, right now, we're talking, like you're asking me questions, and we're just having a conversation. And I'm sure it was just like that with them, too, versus the other environment where it was just like, almost like, yeah, right. It was all makes sense. Yeah. You said that suit thing
I want to go back to just for a second. And I worked for corporate America. I worked for Xerox. It was the greatest sales organization in the world at the time, or one of them, anyway. And one of our. My teammates, her husband owned a sporting goods store or worked at a sporting goods store, and he used to come to these events that Xerox hosted, and we'd all be wearing suits. And one day he pulled me aside, he goes, one day I'm gonna wear a suit, too. And I thought,
you know, I didn't know any different. I just applied for the job. I got a job. I wore a suit. That's what you're supposed to do, I thought. But there was some kind of ambiance about that. There was some kind of aristocracy about seeing somebody in a suit for this gentleman that he aspired to do. That sounds like what was happening with you. Well, I think it goes back to a generation, too, like your parents, your dad being here, and it's a form of respect. And I,
coming from a family that's very, you know, that's. It's important. So if that's the attire, that's what I'm gonna wear. You know, I don't. That. So that kind of goes into. I was immediately put in a male dominated business. Yeah, well, it is. There were not any females. I mean, it was very few females. Saleswomen. And then as far as leadership, there was none at that time. What year was that? Do you remember? So that was 2004. Wow. It's well
past. And I was in the corporate America in the eighties, and I had to apologize to every woman in my branch, all the salespeople. I had to apologize for. What would you do? Because I demonstrated a copier, and I alluded to the fact that any secretary could do this. And then later, I used her as the pronoun for secretaries, and the shit hit the fan. And I was told to write, and I had to stuff an apology letter in every key, every mail slot at the company saying, I did not mean to
insinuate that secretaries are women and women are stupid. Yeah. So you're talking about 2004, and still there's nobody, nobody in corporate America. So maybe it's the liquor business, wine. Business, but the thing is, you see something right there where it's like every generation has the opportunity to make the change, and if you think about, like, I think about my managers. The best ones were the ones that had women around them, and the worst were the ones that if I raised my
voice, I was screaming. If I made a certain face, I'm in a bad mood. You know what I mean? Like, never. I see. Yes. Yeah. So I feel like with what you're saying, too, like, it's important. It changes with each of us. And so did you feel like then, because of that role, because you saw that there was. I mean, you've been here how many years? I'm almost entirely staffed by women here. I always just work better with them. But did you feel like you had a task then to. I always had to prove
myself. Cause it was always. It was always different, especially when you're younger. Like, I grew up in this business in my twenties and in my thirties, I didn't have my kids till I was 36, and so I gave a lot to this business. And the thing is, is you have to give up a lot if you want to keep moving forward. And I remember feeling like, in my twenties, I was married to the job. Like, it was literally my husband. Like, it was just night and day and pretty much
all the way through. COVID. Pretty much, yeah. I mean, that's why you acted here. So. So the chain work is probably the toughest work, and the chains for the listeners, I mean, you're. For the listeners. I don't understand that when it's what made Gallo famous is how they handled merchandising in these big stores. And so you were boots in the field. Yeah, you're in the field. You're in the field. You're fronting
merchandise. You're basically getting up super early, and you're meeting all the trucks and all the pallets come out into the aisles, and you're just throwing loads. And so let's talk about that for a second. That was something. Again, as a female. Yeah, I'd be in heels because I didn't. You know, a lot of times, I would wear high heels to make sure I was at the same eye level as some man that I worked with. It was, like, a strategic thing. Like, those
are things I think about. And so. But then you had to. But then I would never give an excuse, like, if I'm in heels or, like, someone say, like, can I help you? It's actually something that I deal with, like, where I don't like asking for help, because I never wanted to give anybody that reason to be able to say, like, oh, well, she this or you know, like, I just wanted to always be able to do it myself. Yeah. And show them that it could be done in three inch heels and with
nails and. But, yeah, you were throwing cases. Cases. Actually, two things that I never liked. The hardest part of the business, carrying cases and dealing with people's credit. But, yeah, I mean, the cases, like, some of them are super heavy, depending on the glass. But you did it. You just did it. Because that's what they were having to. Do for the listeners. A case of wine, typical bottle of wine is 36 pounds, and if they decide to put it in heavy
glass, they call it. It's around 50 pounds. So. And I remember carrying two cases at a time, my dad's store, but I was 16 and 18 years old. But let's just focus really fast. Cause this is really interesting. But chain work, meaning Ralph's, whatever large, big box store there is, is more than just sort of handling the account and make sure the wine gets there, make sure the booze gets there. It's. You're sort of fighting for shelf space.
The most famous, I think I mentioned earlier, is the Gallo brothers themselves would go into, like, thrifty, the pharmacy, and front their own stuff. Yes. And then, can I ask you, is that shelf space random? No, it's definitely not random. So we have surveys. They still go on today, but basically, the suppliers are working with Ralph's or whoever the chain is. The supplier being the person that brings the stuff to you as a distributor? Yes. And so that supplier is pretty much sponsoring or
buying space on the end caps. So you have your aisles, and at the end, you'll have featured products. And that's all planned out throughout the calendar year for an x amount of dollars. So that's how those get actually placed in the grocery stores. So I did a show with Mike Houlihan and Bonnie, and they established the brand barefoot cellars. And they're the ones that told me the stories about running into Ernest Gallo, fronting merchandise, and they decided to
copy him. But when he first came to me, and this is anecdotal, in 1989, he came to my office, and he says, we have a barefoot cellars wine. It's the chateau Lafitte feet of the California wine business. And the guy left, and I called my dad. I go, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. I can't believe he's trying to do this, and he ends up being the biggest brand in America. So that's what I know. So you go through this chain part and are you dying to get out of
it to do the next level? Yeah. I mean, it's tough because you have all those big wigs coming in and wanting to make sure that everything that they paid for is in its space, but that's, you know, how you grow brands. So then you had. I had to be in there for six months, and the first month I started, you know, applying for positions. You try to find an area, a territory, you know, where you're gonna have anywhere from 40 to, like, 120 accounts. You usually want it to be somewhat in your
backyard. So that took about a month, and one came up. And that's actually when I first met our good friend Melissa. Wow. Bo had a cherry, picked her right out of Buca de Beppo. And so I show up, and it's just. It's actually a funny thing because she wouldn't even look at me like she knew who I was. But again, I'm walking in like, hello, you know? That's funny. And so she got the job, and. But it was crazy. Again, another miracle, another position open the next month, and then Beau hired
me that month. I didn't realize that Melissa has such pedigree working at Bucca de Beppo. Hey, she is literally, she's a hustler. She's the best in. She's the best in Cali, for sure. So Beau hires you. So you were. So when you came here, you were working for Beau, or you were. So basically, I started in the chains, and then I got hired on with Bo as a sales rep in the union for the on premise. So I had, like, burbank lunch restaurants where they pour stuff. Yeah. So
it was a lot of fun because Pasadena at the time, like, it. It was a great time. Again, we were, Melissa and I were, like, in our twenties and twenties and thirties, and we just went out and goes back to relationships. We would go there, support our accounts, come through with whatever anybody needed the next week, and just grew the business. And that was a new learning curve for you. Yeah. And you're still, what, 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's
crazy. You're starting early in the morning because you have to plan out your day. What does it need to sell? Your goals, all that kind of stuff. Quotas. And then you're taking care of any unfinished business, and you're just hitting the field and just seeing as many people as you can, you know, throughout the day. So let's delineate for the listeners that understand, you know, because I think
by design. And really no reason for the consumer to understand that. But when you walk into a restaurant and you're handed that wine list, that's not by accident. And if you order vodka on the rocks, like you said earlier, or something that's coming from the well, which is the. What they call the main pour of that store. But if you call a drink, you ask for something in particular, like Belvedere or something, then that's a different level. Tito's. Tito's still pumping. Tito's.
So for the listeners, all that is organized by people like you coming in. And saying, look, and our relationship. Yes. So just like if a consumer had a relationship with an owner and they like to drink something specific, the owner brings it in. Right? So for the sales person, it's the relationship. I mean, that's it. I mean, that's basically the recipe to anyone's success in this business. But how do you build that
relationship? Is just. Is me showing up saying, Paul, you're way more versed in wine and spirits than I am at the time that I met you. And even still now, and just being honest about who you really are and what you're capable of doing. I know that I might not be able to talk about it, but if you tell me something specific, I'll go. I'll make sure it's the right thing. I'll research it so I can come back and talk about features and
benefits and then get you the price point you need. And then that just builds trust, you know, showing up again and again. You don't have to be a genius in any field as long as you have the passion to want to go out and figure it out and win and be successful and do what you. Say you're gonna do. Exactly. I have to say, the 35 years I did this, the cycle of sales reps, all the various suppliers, let's just take the big guys.
It ebbed and flows. There was one time where I was doing a lot of business with one of your competitors, and that gentleman moved on, and it plummeted. It literally plummeted from, like seven, $800,000 a year to like, nothing. And what's sad is, well, and it's sad that they had the opportunity. They never didn't have the opportunity. It's just taking advantage of it, seeing how far
we can go with something. And when you build that trust, that's when it gets super fun in the business, because that's when both parties can be super creative and come up with all kinds of ways to innovate. And to change, like, okay, well, this isn't selling anymore. How can we make it work and then sell it? So I just. That's the best part about building the relationship for me, was just, like, being able to collaborate and just get super creative and make
fun, because we all have to move boxes. No, you're right. We both have to move boxes. So if you can't move that box for that
reason, we need to figure out why and fix it. There was the success that you had here, and I want to get into the gender specific problems that you encountered, but it always seemed to me, and I, of course, don't know the emaciations of corporate wine and distilled spirits, America, but it was always obvious, particularly with the volume that we were buying, which was quite a bit at our peak. I mean, we were buying 8700 cases of wine at a time that it was your fearlessness
inside the company. Yes. Like, how much work you're going to put into doing this for Paul and then trying to do it. And you were successful. I'd say 90% of the time, when I needed something from you, you'd pull it off. Yeah. And not knowing how high up the ranks you had to go to do that, it, um. That's one of the crazy things that I think gets you towards the end is, like, you move mountains for people because you really care. And it just. I think that's what kind of, like, it gets to
be a lot, but that's what you're doing. You're literally. You have to start selling to your own company. I got to sell to the credit department that the order's going to release and he's going to cut a check. I have to tell the inventory person, yes. I have to line up everything, that here's a contract that he's going to take the 700 cases I'm having to sell to everybody
to get it done. And at the end of the day, it goes back to just being true to yourself and just everyone just being like, you know, you're gonna need to sell it for that price point at some point. Like, do it now. I can't tell how many people, and they would. Wouldn't do it in previous deals, and then would come back a year later, nine months later, and say, we still have it then the wines, not the wine, wasn't any good at
that point, and so they had their shot. So inside selling corporate America, we've got hierarchies, we've got to go up the ladder, we have to go to the supplier sometimes, like, paul's going to buy this wine, like the hess. You remember the Hess shirt tail cabernet? I mean, that was
like incredible price, right? Because I'll just tell the listeners that that deal came down to such a substantial discount, but it was less money than the penalty imposed by the supplier or the winery or the group supplying the wine was going to fine at the end of the year because the inventory was still here. So this is like stuff that people. Well, that's one where I had to get creative. That's one where the creative side came out.
Cause that's a well known brand, but the brand that you had access to, not everybody else had access to because, you know, it was a restaurant, right? So true. That was a selling point for me to be able to go to them, to be like, how cool is this that we're gonna get this wine in, you know, 200 homes and they're gonna see the brand name and those impressions. And so that's what I'm selling too. So this is not an easy task. I mean, for a male,
not an easy task. Like I said, I worked at corporate America. I totally understand the hierarchies and the outlooks. The 30 day, 60 day, 90 day outlooks, the brand. What are you doing with this account? I know all those conversations. I know them well. But you're one of a few women that are in the street fighting for this position. And you talked about earlier how it was married to the job. I mean, that sounds like it anyway. But tell me about headwinds.
Not to say disrespect, and I don't mean, but that extra effort it took because you're a woman. Um, I definitely, it first starts with appearance, so I can't tell you how many women. It's funny, I, I don't, I feel like, in a way, as much as I want to empower women at the same time, I'm like, but you gotta play the game, okay? And especially when you're in sales. So for sure, when you show up and it's four men, don't
give them limp hand shake. Like, give them a hard handshake, look at them in the eye and let them know you're ready to rock and roll. Like, that's against the grain. Do you think for most women, I. Don'T think that they think like that. Yeah. And you? I think it comes from being an athlete and being very competitive. I'm very competitive wanting to win, and you have to have that in
you. No one can teach you to do that. I mean, at the end of the day, you're gonna either grab someone's hand and give them a firm handshake, or you're not males. I know men that don't do that. Yeah. And it's first impression for me. Side note, real fast, we're talking about acting. Yeah. And there's this one methodology called Chubbuck. And she. I've been reading her book, and it's exactly that. It's like you have to
embrace that you want to win. Whatever, whatever role you're playing and whatever emotions you're pulling back or pulling from, it's basically about winning. Your objective as the actor, whatever your role is in this job and this overall thing, I thought when you said that, I go, wow, that's really what it is. It's like you. If you're not motivated to, it's not win. Like, you don't mean winning by cheating somebody else. You mean winning by
accomplishing your goal. Well, you have to stay ahead. That's the other thing, too. So in a way, you have to win, especially if you're just getting started. You have to prove yourself, and you're going to have to prove yourself again and again. You're going to have to reinvent yourself by accepting change and growing with the
changing times. I mean, when I first started, we were using those, like, brick tells on units where you, like, used the payphone that was all sticky and the facts, like, you'd hold it up to the phone, to pagers and, you know what I mean? Now everyone's just got their head in the computer, not building that relationship with the customer. So it has to do with you just accepting change and rolling with it, because in this business, it
continues to change. It also repeats the past, too, and just, you know, reinvents the wheel. But anyways, how long was it before. You felt like, or did you ever feel, like, absolutely accepted by the rank, rank and file and the management? So that
goes back to what I first mentioned when we started. It goes in waves, because if you are working for a manager that doesn't accept the opinion of women or accept how a woman got something done, it's going to be a different experience versus a manager who takes a step back and says, go. Just go be you. Rock and roll. Let me know what you need, any support, anything like that. And then you got your supply behind you, too. I mean, you can do anything.
So, fortunately, the last couple I had were like that, and it made it made it easier for me to retire because at that point, I felt like I had broken every glass ceiling I could break and done everything that I could do there. And my purpose and my time was. Was done, and it was. I needed to move on to taking care of the kids. I have to tell you, Sandra and I talk about this. My wife and I talk about this all the time for the listeners that when we
retired, was the same day you retired. Oh, yeah. March 31. Wow. Oh, yeah. April. Mine was April 3, but yeah. And I say, you know, without Julie's help all these years, and I want to make sure I helped her do the things that she needed to do. We retired at the right time on that relationship alone because I would have had to start all over again with a new rep who has different motivations, who doesn't. Whatever it is, our relationship
synergized, and we got a lot done together. And that was kind of writing on the wall when you say things happen for a reason. That was an important relationship that I lost. That would have been hard to replace, would have made my job a lot harder. Yeah. I have to tell you an anecdotal story. In 1982, when I was selling copiers to Vernon, 82, by the way, is. A very important year. Why? Oh, the year I was born, I was gonna say. And the year started his business.
Really? When you were talking about Phelps earlier, that was one of the first places we went away with when we. Together with Joseph Phelps. Yep. And we drank 1982. Wow. Okay. So it's all right. This all comes for a circle. Full circle again. There was a guy named Bill. He was one of my great relationships in my career and a very interesting business because they made the machines that bottle or canned seven up in coke and stuff.
So they're the colangelist can company. And so my knowledge of canning wine goes back to 1982 when I used to watch these machines. Anyway, it was clear he did not appreciate women in the workforce. Obvious. And I did. Never asked him. Never came across the conversation. We'd never discussed it. But he was a short sleeve, polyester white button down shirt guy. And you could just. I knew it. And I had to call my boss, who was a female at the time, great manager. She says, I want you to call his
boss. And, you know, going over somebody's head is not a good idea generally. No. I go, look. She goes, I need this sale. And it was a big sale. It was like a $200,000 copy. Okay. $200,000 copy. Yeah. Okay. That's a lot. 1982 also. Yeah. So I call the company, and I asked for the president. The answer she goes, hello? And I said, this Paul from Xerox, blah, blah. And he goes, we're gonna buy it. Thank you for calling. I got a phone call immediately after from Bill saying, what
are you doing? How can you go over my head like this? You know, that's the kind of manager he was. I'm reflecting on the reason, because this probably exists in the wine and booze business. And I knew if I was able to discreetly say that my woman manager asked me to call him, that I'd be off the hook. So I said, bill, I was talking to my manager, and she told me to call. That's all I said. And he goes, your boss is a woman? I go, yeah. He goes, you know,
they shouldn't be in the workforce. And I was totally off the hook because of his sexism. Totally off the hook. And I thought, wow. But you're talking about different part of America. But there still is a disparity in corporate America in executives, particularly in the wine and liquor industry of executive women. Did that change at all when you were going through this?
Um, no, it doesn't. I. I mean, I can't tell you. I've been in a lot of meetings where I've had men just not even look at me because they don't. Are they nuts? They don't know. Well, they just. They don't know. They think I'm just there, like, taking notes. Yeah. Um, I'd say for a lot of my meetings, if I am walking in with a male sales representative, I mean, I could be three levels higher. And they would assume the sales rep was the manager.
Wow. And they would always have to correct the buyer to say, actually, this is, you know, she's director, she's a division manager. Whatever it was at the time, that happened a lot. That's amazing. Really. Yeah. So. So let's say now you've done this. You. You were very successful. You were put in charge of some rather important,
what they call allocations for the listener. If there's only so much available to the whole country, then each market area gets so many bottles of whatever it is, whether it's bourbon or wine or whatever. And you became in charge of some of this high level allocations? Yes. Was that a promotion at that point? Nobody else wanted to do it? Yeah, it's definitely a job everybody wants because, I mean, you have access to the best of the best, and they
are extremely limited. And I think COVID changed a lot of it. But, yeah, there were bottles that sometimes I would get, like, three bottles for all of Southern California or my region, and I'd have to allocate them out to the right buyers. And it was tough. So tough. It's really tough. But was that a promotion inside the company or just added to your job? Okay, so I went from on premise sales
representative. Then I became a key account manager, and then I became a division manager, and then COVID hit, and I became a director of sales. That's where that job became. Yeah. So when did you say you had. How old are your kids now? Four years? They're seven. They're seven? Yeah. Wow. Triplets. So when did it hit you that, wait a minute, I can't do it all having. Well, the triplets, which is, you know, not easy for anybody, let alone a full time mom. But you weren't a full
time mom. You were working in the streets. This is a very demanding job. Still district manager. When did you start thinking, well, it's in that business. You're out late all the time. You're doing several dinners a week. You're playing golf a lot, which is awesome. It's fun. But when you're out, everyone knows it slows you down. You can't do what you could do if you were
in the office or out in the field. So there's a lot of trips away, a lot of nights staying in other counties, for example, lots of alcohol, amazing food. There's a lot of perks and stuff. But you're away, and you're not present with your family or with what maybe yourself, you know, and taking care of yourself. And I think what happened was I got into that director position, and I saw that there was nowhere else to
go. And it's funny, like, when you want to work on your career and you want to continue growing and making more money and climbing that ladder, it really is like a chess game. You have to think a couple steps ahead. And what happens if this person goes here or this happens or they realign this division or take away these positions? So it's just a lot of thinking ahead and planning, but I feel like every move I made was done for a certain reason at the right
time. And when COVID hit, they furloughed everybody, so there was just a few of us left. And I never worked so hard in my life when I thought I had already worked so hard. Like, I feel like I'd already, you know, even when I was pregnant with the triplets, like, I won manager of the year that year, and, like, so I felt like I just done everything I could, and that business everything shut down. Like, LA is still recovering from it. If you drive down there, they're
still boarded off. And so going through that was hard because it was from basically 06:00 a.m. To about 02:00 a.m. No joke. Because it was dealing with people's credit and trying to get them up and running again because they had been closed, they hadn't had a liquor order since St. Patrick's Day. So it was just a crazy time. And then I had a dinner one night with a female executive, very few, but this one runs quite a few states. And I just, I was
overhearing her talk about her kids, and I said, oh, you have two kids? Yes. Oh, who's taking care of the kids? Oh, my husband. Oh, okay. Does he stay at home? Yeah, he stays at home. So I'm just like, putting this all together and, you know, they say, like, I don't think you can have it all because you can't give everything 100% of yourself. Like, you can't be present for everything. It's like the same as they say. Multitasking really isn't, like,
efficient. I'm a multitasker. But they say it's really not efficient because you're not giving that one thing everything and you're not just finishing it. So I wanted to be more present because if it's not your significant other doing it for you at home, it's somebody else and it's not you. Your husband is a thriving electrical business. He's not home. Very successful business. He's hardest worker I know. He's out of the house by 415 to meet a load, and he comes home at 630 for dinner. And it's
just, that's how we, we were. We're just like, so you're both doing this crazy machine where I have a nanny, and then it's like I have to hire someone to overlay, like, because I can't fit 8 hours in that business and do an eight hour work day. Was that gnawing on you for a while until you had this conversation or you just kind of woke up to it? No, this is something I had actually been
asking, you know, for years. And you kind of. You have to wait for the right moment for your family too, you know, for it to make sense for the family to do that, to step away from a very great position. Well, there's obviously the salary and the work that's obviously counts. You're eating at the best places, you're drinking the best stuff, you know, private dinners all the time, golfing of the best courses. I mean, it's. It's. It's amazing, but it just.
It became where I just wasn't present, and that's what I wanted to do. And I wonder, and I also felt that I had another purpose like this. I had done everything I could. Yeah, that's a pretty serious revelation. Mm hmm. To try reflect on that. And, you know, we only have one pass through here, so you want to maximize that value. And I was thinking that I had a winemaker. Tell me once, man, I eat the best food, I go to the best places, I drink the best wines, I meet
the most amazing people. But his comment was, I don't make a lot of money doing this. And, you know, even me having done all this, and now we're starting to travel and get around and try to use some of the relationships, I still feel like I want to be home sometimes. Like. Like I want to lever. We're going to Bordeaux, and I'm going to see all these great people that I've interviewed on the show, and we're going to have so much fun together. But
I'm also sort of thinking, I can't wait to get home when that's done. And I'm wondering if even a single person, even if you weren't married, even I wasn't married and we were doing that, we'd probably still burn out a little bit. Yeah. I mean, think about this. How often do you go and do you really just, like, stop for a second and go walk in the vineyard by yourself? No, like, when's the last time you've done
that? Yeah. Right. And if you think about it, every time you go visit one of those awesome wineries and you're hearing about the history and the views, like, I can see napa in my head right now is what I can see. I see a liquor store. Yeah, but you should be doing that. You know what I mean? It's like stopping and smelling the roses. Like, it just has become too fast paced. Like, a text isn't a text. An email is not an email. It's like, you better be looking at all of it.
Twenty four seven. And, you know, especially in that business, there's no boundaries. No, because some places. No time borders. No. Some close at 02:00 a.m., hey, there's some out there that close at 04:00 a.m. And then guess what? They open at 06:00 a.m. So restaurant tours aren't exactly the nicest people when it comes to respect of your time and your family. If, you know, for the listeners. I wanted to just touch
on the COVID side. What happened in the La market all over the country is that most businesses, if you and I were going to start a winery, we would want to be in a restaurant because it's a house pour or it's on a list. It's like an annuity. People buy the glass volume. Yeah, it's volume. Right. And when the COVID shut down all the restaurants, then 80% of the businesses, suppliers, I mean, I think your competitor put like 200 people on the street or something. Ridiculous. Yeah. So. But
it didn't matter because there was nothing we could do. And then it turned into to go business and packaging, you know, wine and spirits coming out and in different packaging. And now look at the. Look at the shelves in the grocery store now. I know. And they always say the on premise builds brands. You know, we talked about that a lot. Like in this business and it's true. There's an entire aisle now of canned wines, spirits, pouches,
all kinds of things like that. You know, you were very funny during this process and you were self admittedly, and you probably would do it today, but I would try to teach you something about wine and you'd go one. Ear, not the other. Except for when you talked about like your family and I love those stories. You would go, okay, so how can I make this deal happen? Yeah, can we just get to how many cases and what's the bottle cost? I need to get to. And
does it have to be Stelvin or quark? All the rest of the stuff is going on. So are you happy that you did this? Yeah, I'm very happy. It's taken a few months to kind of find myself and get back to just like breathing again. You mentioned that your kids. And I'm with you on that. I'm still struggling. I still can't like shut down. I still can't believe I don't have to be somewhere for something. Yes, a lot of that. But you said your kids didn't trust you when you got home.
Oh, wow. You remembered that? Yeah, I'm actually still dealing with that. Really? And I think it has to do with just again, you're not fully there, you're not present. You have a team of people that you trust and that you've overly communicated as much as you can and shown them as much as you can. But at the end of the day, it's not you. And, you know, there's a lot of times where it's like, oh yeah, I'll try to
be home at your 830. Like I want to rush it. And I'm sitting there with owners of brands that have just flown in and now they're, you know, their head of PR from New York is here and I'm sitting right next to them and it's now going to be midnight. How you did that? How did you justify, like, you're sitting with this guy and I know exactly what you're talking about and you're chomping at the big cause, you know, that the kids are doing whatever Frank's doing,
whatever. How did you justify at that moment? Did you just go, I just gotta get through this? Well, that's where the trust is lost because I know that I have a support team that's gonna, you know, get him into bed and read him a book and do all the things that I wanted to do. So I was able, you know, to do that. Frank always supported me that way to make sure that I could keep working
and stay focused. But I was thinking about it the whole time because, you know, I probably did say I was going to be home at nine and next thing you know, he's asleep and I'm walking in. 1130. Yeah. That cause friction? Oh, yeah. I think it causes, I mean, it. Would in any marriage. I'm just wondering. Oh yeah. I mean, think about it. I'm sure the women are always thinking like, what is my husband going out to do right now? He's at another bar, he's drinking. Oh, great. At St. Patrick's Day or
it's Cinco de Mayo or whatever it is. And next thing you know, he has to stay at a hotel. What is he really doing? I mean, you have to have a solid foundation and, you know, and just trust your partner. But it is crazy because, I mean, let's be real. You're in bars, you're on alcohol. It's, the temptations are huge. In the eighties, in corporate America was drugs. I mean, in the halls of the greatest corporations, drugs. And there was so much infidelity and
alcoholism at that time, which probably isn't all that different now. It's just more discreet. But I can't imagine when you add to it that the product being sold is, you know, dependent, mind altering. Yeah. Depends on this, right? Yes. In order for it to be successful. Yep. Well, okay. So I will say, though, what I loved about being a woman in this industry is once you do prove yourself right, that you can play with them, that anything they do, you can do better.
I used to say that all the time. Like, anything they do, I can do better. I can be cliched, but we're gonna do that. But basically, like, it got to a point where, respectfully, like, they became brothers. So I also think that's part of how I was able to do it for so long, you know, married with. With little ones, is that I was on a team. You know, it was like being on a baseball team. Like, those were my teammates, and they protected me, and I always felt, you know, safe. So,
you know, there's a double edged sword to this, a little bit. Looking at this picture over your shoulder of my dad. Oh, yeah, I love that. And I remember this well. I remember the day he took the picture. I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? And thank God he did. But I was about to do a monologue to test my acting skills, just so you
know. Yeah. And the stories are going to be just snippet stories of my father, because I think what you taught your children, even though you're at a crossroads now and you're back home and the kids are learning that I have a mother here all the time, they also saw an amazing work ethic. Yes. And I think there's value to that, even though you can't tell today. I see it actually already. You do? I do. My son Vincent, he's very much like Frank
out with. He's helping him every Saturday. He gets in his precision electric uniform, and so does Frankie now, too. And Frankie's been working, just modeling, and we're going to get into acting, hopefully. And he knows that if I do this job, I'm going to make money, and it can go into my savings account and I'm going to buy a car later, that's how he's talking about it. That's great lessons. And Francesca, she's so brave and strong, and I see her
with her brothers, and, like, I. I see myself in it now. I just gotta be, like, not so quick to get angry or snappy, because I see you're getting a little bossy, like me, but that takes years of, like, learning, you know, how to finesse that and make
it work to your advantage. But they see two parents that are working hard, and I don't think there's any greater lesson than that for particularly in today's generations that are growing up digitally with information at their fingertips and services at their fingertips that we never had, you know, and for them to have a work ethic, because that's what's gonna prevail when it's all said and done. Like, my kids are very hard working. They're millennials. They act like it. They're pain in the
ass. But it's from you, and it's from your parents. Right. And Sandra and her parents, just like it is my parents and my grandparents who are still alive. My grandma's 89 and my grandfather's 90. And I saw how hard they work, and I saw how hard my parents worked and struggled at times in the beginning. And I learned at a very young age that if you wanted something, you had to work for it. And so with the kids now, it's hard because they are
so. They're privileged. I mean, they have everything at their fingertips, and it's. I'm working on right now, just teaching them that, you know, it's not so easy for everybody. No. And you have to work hard and. And respect the things that you have and be grateful for everything that you have, you know, gratitude. Even better lesson. Yeah. And so triplets. Yes. I mean. That'S a whole nother story. That's. Yeah. It's really, really exciting to watch. I've been very honored to be part
of your career. Oh, thank you. And watch. And you always had ideas. We're almost on an hour already. But you always came up with new ideas. You're the person you gotta call this. Person to take care of. I'm like, Julie, I got, you know. No, but you gotta call her. She's. Any think tanks out there, give me a call. I will solve that problem for you. There is a wine think tank called Adoni Global. It's out of France, in London, and they think tank through the industry of fine wine, wines
of caliber, that, you know, the history. Not the history, but the future of it, because consumerism has changed so much. And you got out at the right time. Yeah, you really did. And I feel. I feel extraordinarily fortunate to have gotten out with a deal like this. So. Yeah, no, it's very exciting. I'm happy for you. And, yeah, you're lucky that after. What was it, day after Christmas? The Stanley cup. Did you see all the, like, feed where the kids were getting Stanley cups for Christmas? It
was like the hot gift. I would have been in here that Monday going, all right, we're going to put together a pouch that fits in the Stanley cup. So thank goodness, thank goodness, thank goodness. It's really, really great to see you. It's really great to hear the stories. And I think we have more to talk about. Maybe in the future as things settle. Down home and we have dinner together coming up sometime. Who knows when that is? Yes, we need to do that. And
just thanks for coming in. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul Callum, Cary. And don't forget to subscribe because there's more great interviews on their way. Folks, have a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.