WW 927: Up to Stuff - Intel Unison, Quake II WHAMM demo, Minecraft movie

It's time for Windows Weekly. Richard Campbell is here. Paul Thorat, too. Paul's been busy. He created a Windows 11 feature tracker at first for his own use, but now you can use it too. Build is coming. We'll talk about the session catalog and all the AI. AI sprinkled everywhere. Plus, the number one game in the world is now the number one movie. All that and more coming up next on Windows Weekly.

This is Windows Weekly with Paul Therod and Richard Campbell. Episode 927. Recorded Wednesday, April 9th, 2025. Up to stuff. It's time for Windows Weekly, the show we get together with... Two people who shall remain nameless. Not for very long, but yeah. To talk about Windows and Microsoft. Paul Thorat is in Roma Norte, Mexico City, from Thorat.com. Hello, Paul. And also with Richard Campbell, who very kindly stuck around and did the leather butt impression last week.

Good news. You don't have to this week. We've got Cory Doctorow. We can all go home early. It'll be. Geez, I wish I would be on that show. I love that. You could be on it if you want. You could stick around. It's all right, brother. Wednesday's Richard Campbell Day. Richard has worked the whole day, right? Yeah.

But definitely say hi for me. I'm an admirer. He's amazing. Oh, I know. He's always fascinating. Yeah. Rich is back home in beautiful Madeira Park. Nice to see you. I bet you're happy to be there. Happy to be home and arrived home to a puppy because, you know, having a granddaughter wasn't enough. Now we have a puppy. Oh, I thought you were calling your new baby a puppy. Oh, no, you have a puppy and a grandbaby. Yes. So.

Yeah, full plate. All the love. That's what we got. More biting now, but all the love. Oh, no, it's wonderful. What kind of puppy? Yeah, she's a cross. There's a little poodle in there, so she's got springs in her legs and some Bernies and some Aussie Shepherd and some Colleen. Oh, it sounds perfect. Yeah, it's going to be as long as you get the best of each breed.

we'll see we'll see what we got you know you find out later and you can't return them back in again right the warranty expires before you know anything oh no that sounds like it's a bundle of love i think you're gonna love it that's great is it your dog or your kid's dog it's my wife's dog And the last one was supposed to be her dog too. And it didn't work out that way. So that's why I'm going.

This is why I'm going out of town. That's your cat, not my cat. That's your cat. But, you know, next week after the show, I head for Australia. So she's going to get three weeks of, you know. managing it herself but she's very confident and she wants the dog more than i do but she's this is a little love you know there's something about a dog they just love you they love you she's a sweetie So, Paul Therott.

Yes. I nipped Steve Gibson in the bud yesterday. Nipped him in the bud. I nipped him in the bud. That doesn't sound like it's suitable for work, but please continue. Whacked him on the nose of the newspaper. No. I just, we started going on about the bypass NRO.cmd and I repeated your.

your caution that they didn't take they just took away the batch file not the commands it executed and you can still and steve was mollified he said oh that's good i said it's exactly what we want you want the kind of uh unsophisticated user to have that's what they expect but you want the sophisticated user to be able to do what they want i also i mean we'll see what happens that's the thing i

You don't think this is a long-term plan on Microsoft's part to slowly? Well, I do, actually, unfortunately. That's what he was worried about. Yeah, it's part of it. Well, look, off the top of my head, I can't go through all of the steps that they took. At one, you know, they switch to Microsoft, you know, you can sign up with a Microsoft account. Well, first you could attach a, what used to be called a .NET passport or a Windows Live passport or whatever it was called to your.

Windows 7 account. And then they introduced the ability to sign in with a Microsoft account in Windows 8. And then at some point you, it was the default. And at some point they got rid of it in home. And at some point. Actually, they got rid of it in Pro. The ability of that is to sign in with a local account right in setup. So it's been an escalating series of things. But like I said last time and with the Mac today as well.

they really, they'd have to fundamentally change windows to really get rid of it. And I just don't, it's never really going to get rid of it. And there are other workarounds, you know, so. The motivation here is reducing tech support. Yeah, that's the clearest, most logical expense in their lives is When folks use these tools, not really understanding where they are and get their machine in state they know what to do, who are they going to call? Who are they going to blame?

This is going to be them. Look, like everything else in life, I talked about this McDonald's effect. You know, they didn't start McDonald's to make everyone fat, but they were trying to solve a problem. This is good and bad to everything, right? And Microsoft purposefully. is doing things that drive you toward their services, right? And that's understandable. It's a business. It's fine. But the benefits of the Microsoft account outweigh the bad stuff by far.

There are very good technical reasons for it. And what Richard said, absolutely 100% correct. It gets you, and I talked about this notion of, Start a Microsoft account or a Google account, but use a different email address, automatic recovery built in. You're better off right there. You're better off. you know, the automatic disk encryption stuff right there. Better off. Yeah. And most people expect that, right? So they don't want to be told, oh, well.

We're going to talk about these features coming in Windows 11, right? So there's a feature there either, I can't remember, I can't keep this track. I can't keep this stuff straight. That's the point. There's a feature either coming or in Windows 11 now all of a sudden that if you sign it with a Microsoft account and it knows that you have not set up recovery methods through another email address, phone number, whatever, it will prompt you to do so.

I know a lot of these prompting things are the types of things I do complain about, but those are the things that don't have a benefit for me or Microsoft driving me to do something that's better for them exclusively, right? Like a lot of the edge behaviors. or whatever. So good and bad, but mostly good. And for most people, it's the right decision.

Yeah, it's nothing to argue with. And, you know, they're not taking away functionality or just making you need a little more expertise to be successful with it. Hey, listen, the people who are Windows experts or tech experts, you should love this. That's what you want. You want to be able to do something other people can't figure out. That's how it should be. This is all you ever wanted. It's perfect. What's the problem?

Well, the problem is you're afraid they're going to take it away. But I don't know. I just don't see that. But we'll see. We'll see how it evolves. I think this is such a perfect compromise for Microsoft. And I feel like... why would they insist on a Microsoft account? I mean, that's what, you know, the conspiracy theory is, oh, they just want to get you in. But you'd already bought, you're already using Windows. I don't know. Yeah, far too late for that anyway. You're already in, man.

I got stupidly involved in a thread on wherever, Twitter, threads, whatever it was, where I don't even know. It was just in response to some auto post about something I or Laurent had written on Threat.com, something about Google or whatever. And some guy, apropos of nothing, just chimes in with like, I bought a Google Pixel phone, but I got all the Google crap off of it. I installed some other operating system. And it's like, I'm sorry.

What? You wanted the weaker processor with no battery life, but not the Google stuff. You know, that's why you buy that phone. What are you talking about? Well, you can't. I mean. In fact, there is a company that sells this phone de-googled. And you could put, there are some nice... If you want to D anything, anything, how about take a Samsung flagship and D Samsung that, that would be useful to put pixel.

Because this has Android on there. This has some hardware feature. Oh, you think this is a worse processor than the Samsung? It's objectively a worse processor. Performance and battery life. Even the AI processing is worse. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's kind of bizarre. But this is you own a Pixel, right? Yeah, I love it. Pixel 9. Mm-hmm.

But in the future, would you say buy a Samsung? See, I don't want the Samsung crap. No, because when I buy a Samsung, I see it and I hate it. And I hate everything on it. And everything, that's what I mean. If I could get the Samsung hardware. Right. Google pixel software, the whole thing. That would be the, that's the, that's the, that's probably doable. I'll have to, I'll look over an XDA developers and see what I can't say. It takes two seconds before you have to sign.

the three sampling agreements that you give away your third child and whatever else is in there. It's crazy. I regret, I'm mostly Samsung TVs and I deeply regret it. We have that frame TV. I hate it. I'm so disappointed. And it's that Samsung operating system. Samsung smart TVs where you light there. Sign in to receive your virus over the air. It's unbelievable. Sign in to get your free virus. Or don't sign in. And we'll just prompt you to sign in all the time. We'll be great.

Yeah, they pop up stuff all the time. Say, well, you know, just so you know, the terms have changed. I know. It's like, I'm watching a show here. Do you mind? Yeah, exactly. I'm in the middle of a severance over here. Do you think you could hold it a second? Get out. No, I don't understand. I don't get Samsung. I have a problem with this.

Let's get Corey Doctorow on. He is. He's coming up in two hours. He comes up a couple of times. Not him, but the initiation stuff comes up a couple of times today later in the show, including right at the end of my bit where... you know, looking for those things that are the opposite of that, right? Which, because there are some things in our world, there aren't many. It's a short conversation.

there's a reddit um subreddit i really like called buy it for life oh nice and the premise is you buy it once and you never have to buy it again and of course none of that is technological it's not it's all it's all things like kitchen aid mixers but I think that copy of paperclip I have for the Commodore 64 is still cooking around. It's fine. It's all I need to write, baby. Introducing. I'm sorry. I hijacked the show. I will not. I just wanted you to know that I defended.

I can't believe this. Windows, Microsoft. To Steve Gibson. And this is the cancerous effect I have on people. I'm sorry. I mean, really, you're just picking the least effort alternative, right? It's Occam's razor. What is the least they need to do to create outrage? Just take the script away. Yeah. Yeah. I keep saying, you know, we have plenty to be outraged about. You don't need to make stuff up this.

You know, there's all kinds of stuff going on in our world. It's, you know, don't worry, we'll get there. how did i get out of this clicking on things in notion and i go somewhere else anyway i am on the notion spreadsheet that you use what do you call this database file page notes That you use. And it says the next feature of this show will be introducing the Windows 11 feature tracker.

I was like, what does it say? I'm like, I don't see it. What does it mean? You're right. It does say it. I'll show you. What does that mean? Yep. What does that mean? Yes. What does that mean? Yeah. A couple of weeks ago, Microsoft did that little shift very quietly. They took the dev channel. Out of 24H2, new build stream, and then they're calling it 24H2. So I was like, okay, they're onto something here. That's going to be 25H2 probably. It could be Windows 12. We don't know yet.

This is a new version of Windows. So this thing has been gnawing me in the back of my brain. I've got this book. It's grown to 1,200 pages. It's stupid. Keeping up with what Microsoft is doing is very difficult. I don't feel like there are many people in the world that care as much as I do and yet are as confused by it as much as I am. You know, if you don't care, it's easy to not be confused.

Yes. Caring too much is the path to confusion, also to outrage and anger. But I ended up writing this gigantic article where I walked into. um, listing what, wait a minute. I'm sorry. I have to stop. I have a free gift from throughout.com. Let me just enter my email. Sorry. Here it is. So this is, this is, this is awesome. Before we get to that, hold on. Okay. Okay. Don't pay no attention to that.

No, a couple weeks ago, I just, I kind of went through just for my own edification, did this thing I should have been doing for years and years now, but have never really done, which was go back. And I just stuck with the dev channel. I didn't look at other channels or individual apps.

What did they announce? What features did they add and when? And did they ever make their way to stable? I came up with a list of 15 major features, some of which everyone knows, like recall, click to do, et cetera. that had never shipped in stable yet. I mean, they will, right? But I'm like, we need to keep track of this. So I was like, all right, I'm going to, I sort of said vaguely, I'm going to work on this. I knew it would take a lot of time.

Two days later, Microsoft put out something called the Windows Roadmap, which was a list of features we've been testing for Windows 11, but haven't shipped yet. Or here's when they're going to ship. And I'm like, oh, good. Now I don't have to do this work. So then I looked at it and it was garbage and really incomplete. And even though the thing I did was by definition incomplete, it was way.

way better than what Microsoft would come up with. I like your hero shot at the beginning of your article in which you have written something and then you go to rewrite and casual formal refine. So the reason that screenshot exists is because I wanted to list what the features were.

text actions. So I took one of this and I took one of an image with the image options. And then when I was looking for a shot to the article, I was like, oh, actually, there's a Windows 11 feature that's never shipped. I'll use that. I didn't actually use it to rewrite anything. I mean, I'm not an idiot. Anyway, you realize this is going to become the website of misfit Windows toys.

I love it. Which is actually a much better title for my book as well. Maybe a subtitle. So yeah, that's good. I like that. So coming into this week, I don't remember it randomly. I guess it was just randomly Tuesday. And I was like, I'm going to do this thing. I'm actually going to make this. And as I wrote an article about why and what I was going to do, and that's the thing you see highlighted in that image.

And it was going to include the track at the bottom of it. And then I was like, wait a minute, this is too long. I'll just say that I'm going to do it. I'll do the next one on Patch Tuesday, which is probably next week. I look at the calendar. I'm like, oh, it's today. Great.

So patch Tuesday was yesterday. So I was like, I got to get going on this. So I'm writing away. I'm doing it. I'm, you know, it's growing and growing and growing. And Laurent texts me and he says, Hey, the patch Tuesday updates are out. I'm like, kill me. Okay. I had written what I had written based on the preview update from two weeks ago. It turns out 100%.

accurate to what was released Tuesday. So that worked out pretty, pretty good, but I just did it as a webpage, right? So the thing Leo, you can show it now. I'm sorry. The thing you were showing. is the thing I came up with. But even as I did it, I sort of realized I'm going to be republishing this whenever. I don't know exactly, like maybe every two weeks, week D, week B, maybe just on Patch Tuesday. I don't know.

I'm not sure yet. This is going to kind of evolve as I do it. But I was like, I need this to be kind of better than this, right? I need it to be maybe interactive. And Brad was talking to me this morning. He says, hey, I saw this thing you did. You should do this in Notion. He's like, yeah, Notion has like databases. They have tables. They have whatever. I don't know if you can make it interactive where other people could.

You could. Tribute, right? You can also make it a public webpage, which is nice. Which I have done. And so that's actually, no, I'm sorry. I've not completed it. But you're working on it. He told me this this morning. Today is Wednesday. I'm in Mexico. So this is two hours earlier for me than it would be if I was in the United States. Also, this is non-trivial to move this all over. You've got to. Yeah, but I'll do it. It's okay because I only have to do it once. And then.

But do you want people to edit it? I mean, I wouldn't make it. Well, I do like the idea of a GitHub type thing where they make a, like, I guess you'd call a push request or whatever, and I can approve it. Oh, that's good. Maybe. That's not super important to me. I mean, the big thing for me is I need to keep track of this for myself. I think it's useful for other people. This is incredible.

Yeah, this is just the web-based version. There's a Notion version where I just put the first three into a very basic table. that just to kind of see what it might look like. It looks so good. There's almost no way I'm not using this. It's really neat looking. And there is a link to it, I think, in the notes. At the bottom of that first paragraph. I don't know if it will come up on. For me, it's coming up. It's coming up.

Like copy the link and then paste it into a browser. I don't know why it's coming up inside of Notion for me. But if you look at it on the web, you can see, you know, by the way, this is just rough. I just roughed in three. things, but I'm like, I saw this and I was like, yeah, because you can filter this in different ways. You can sort it in different ways. You know, it has all those interactive. You kind of want to have the data set in GitHub and then maybe generate to this.

So then you get all that. People can contribute and write issues. Yeah, and then I could say, okay, and it gets into, yes. The other way. Let me further complicate it. Yep. The other way you could do it is a wiki. Use MediaWiki and you could have the same editing features that a Wikipedia has. So you could have contributors. Yep. You could have conversations. Yeah. I mean, there's different ways. If you have a VPS setting up media wiki is pretty trivial. I've done it. Okay.

And then... And I'm not trying to turn the creation of this thing into a career. I know. I know. But I do... Now that I've sort of done one thing like this, I'm like, yes, like I notion is a, is a very straightforward way to, I feel very stupid not to have done this before. This was, this is almost just for your own consumption to organize your thoughts around these things.

So yeah, we'll see where this goes. I'm trying to find the Notion link though. I don't. So the last link in that first paragraph, if you right click it and do copy link. I'm looking at the premium version and I don't know. On the notes. In the Notion notes, the last link. Oh, our notes. Oh, you mean like. It says like a Notion website, but don't click it in Notion. You have to right click and choose copy link or something. Got it. Open a new window. Okay.

Nice. Oh, this is sweet. This was 10 minutes of work, you know, just like this. No, this is what notion is made for. It's basically a database, right? It's literally a database. Yeah. So one thing that, well, yeah. So like I said, yesterday was patch Tuesday. So patch Tuesday. Has a long list of new features. So if you're following along with the preview update stuff from two weeks prior, you knew that. It was quiet for a while, but it seems they're in full swing again. Oh, yeah. So.

What I found doing this feature tracker were a couple of things. One is that there are now. roughly two dozen, I think over two dozen major features. for windows 11 that are in testing have never shipped and they're still calling in 24 h2 like when 25. I know, it's crazy. Also, if you look at the list of new features from this patch Tuesday, every single one of them, and I mean every single one of them, is a CFR, a controlled feature release, meaning they will roll out randomly.

There are no features that you will get automatically on every PC on day one. It's just like the stupidest. Kind of crazy thing tied to this the same day that I did the tracker. Microsoft, later that day, posted a major update to the Copilot app in the Insider Preview program to all channels. which suggests that it will come out imminently. It's tied to some stuff we'll talk to later in the show from the Consumer AI Day.

It has a couple of new features related to searching for files from within Copilot and analyzing the content, obviously, and for vision. We'll talk about that later. People discovered that the latest builds in the insider program have a new start menu that's completely, well, very different, quite different from the one that we have now. I would say that the start menu in Windows 11 was one of the more controversial bits when they first shipped it, especially. Not particularly configurable.

No, it took away features primarily. Yeah, but it's also really badly done, like just from as a programming project. It's badly done. So by default, you have a pin section at the top and a recommended section at the bottom. You can choose some basic layout changes where you have more space for pinned or more space for recommended.

But if you deleted every item in Pinned, you would just have some empty space at the top of the start menu. It doesn't have an auto flow sense or anything. It's really dumb. So the new update, the start menu gets bigger, wider, and taller. It's still not resizable, which is stupid. You just be able to do that in Windows 10, you may recall. But they have different sections and then different views that you can customize.

So you can have a category view, a name list, or name grid, and all your apps are on the front page now by default. at the bottom of the start menu. So it's more customizable as well. And of course, they're all separately rolling out this update for phone link users where you get that. phone link cancerous side thing that sits there doing what it does.

Yeah. It's very strange. Telling me to connect while still being connected. Really, really, really wants to turn all the notifications on no matter what you want. The entire day yesterday telling me it was disconnected and it was connected just fine and updating. And I don't know, you know, it's not very good, but you know, nothing they do is.

This is where we're at. But anyway, this kind of highlighted that between the co-pilot app getting updated yet again, and this thing that they have not yet announced, but will soon, I'm sure, you know, Windows. there are these changes are coming like there's a lot of stuff happening and um it just kind of highlighted the need of i mean a lot of ways i feel like that's a good thing too right like there's clearly a group of people working on stuff

The problem is those people are driving around in a clown car and they have brightly colored noses and clothes and big shoes. No, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, you're right. You're right. You were sadder when you thought they weren't paying any attention at all. That's the thing. If we've learned anything, it's that I'm never going to be happy. So what's the difference? We might as well make stuff that amuses us and upsets you.

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All right. You are watching Windows Weekly. We're very happy that you're here. You winners and dozers, you. And so are Paul Thorat and Richard Campbell. And the show continues on with, ladies and gentlemen, I give you more. windows 11. i'm really excited about the fact that there's two segments on windows yeah this is fancy in some ways there are three

But we'll get to that in a moment. Oh, no. What is this? Oh, no. I don't know why you call it Windows Weekly anymore. Does somebody say that? No. No, not really. It would be so sad. So looking back at the insider program, there were two major sets of builds over the past week. I don't remember anymore if these are even in the tracker thing. If they're not, they will be. But in the beta channel for 23H2, testing changes to Explorer. So there's some...

Like what will happen if you have a file explorer open and then you window open and then you open a new file explorer window? Does it have the same tabs? Does it do different tabs? So they're kind of playing around with that. And then this contact spending thing we've been talking about forever, back in 24H2, back in where we are now, I mean, back when they first.

shipped it a million years ago, like almost a year ago, right? For Copilot plus PCs, they had fixed those context menu icons that look like hieroglyphics by adding labels to them. Yeah. Genius, right? This is the one feature that I know of that has not shipped in 23H2. Microsoft has been testing it in 23H2 and has pulled it twice. And now they're saying we, they might not be doing it. It might be a render. Maybe there's some, yeah, some.

I don't know. Something's wrong in there for some reason in 23H2 where they can't get it to work, right? You can't crash your machine with captions. That's just unacceptable. Yeah, it's kind of weird. So, okay, we'll see what happens there. And then dev and beta in the 24H2 time frame or build frame or whatever, however we're saying that. A bunch of things. And actually, one of these is really exciting.

They're bringing back this notion of taskbar scaling. So as you add icons to the taskbar, the taskbar will get smaller and the icons get smaller so you can fit more in screen instead of doing that silly overflow area. But tied to this is an option we used to have in the taskbar, I don't even know how long ago, for a long time.

where you could just keep it small. So it's basically the small icons view. Right. Which is what I want. I mean, I, you know, not that it's taking up a great Windows 10, man. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going back in time there. And then this I don't quite understand. I feel like. Microsoft is kind of screwing around with UI a little bit too much here, but...

In a coming build of Windows or a coming version of Windows or whatever, we're going to get this change to the right-click share menu. So you right-click on a file. I'm just going to do it now so I can tell you what it says. And today in Windows 11, one of the options is share.

So coming soon, that's one of those items in the tracker. Share is actually going to trigger a submenu, and there'll be a list of apps that are compatible with that thing, which you would normally have to go to the share pane for.

somewhere at the bottom there's an option that just says more share or whatever it says and that will bring up the normal share pane and those apps will be there too but there'll be the other ways you can share So now they're introducing a variant of that where you pick up a file and drag it. Oh, actually, this isn't this bill. So I'm on the dev channel.

So I drag it to the top and you get a little pop down thing like we get for Snap. And it says drag here to share. And there is a list of apps that are compatible with sharing this thing and then a more. And if I go to more. Two ways to do the same thing, which is the most Microsoft thing I've ever heard of in my life. At least two. I mean, it's going to be more. They're really desperate for you to use share, so they're just going to put it in more places.

Yeah, there are actually there are more. So there's also the toolbar based way to do it in File Explorer. Yeah. So just and I mean, except for that part where the thing you want to share it to doesn't support that. It works great. Yes. When I did do the tracker the other day, it feels like it was a million years ago. It was yesterday. That's how long ago it was. It was hours ago. Yeah, 24 hours ago, or in my brain, 48 years ago when I did the tracker. That's what it feels like.

I talked about it a little bit. Leo said, oh, I love this screenshot. I said, yeah, the reason it exists is because I was taking a screenshot so I could list the actions. for both text and graphics. And I noticed that one of them was called Ask Copilot. I was like, that's kind of interesting. I actually don't remember that being an option. That's because it's one of the newest features. They just added it to the dev channel.

and the beta channel in 24H2. And what it does is it brings up the co-pilot app. so that you can go and learn more about the thing you've selected, whether it's text or a graphic, right? So that's fun. Or not. I don't know. And then just because I know this is an ongoing issue for every single human being that's ever used Windows and is technical in any way.

Microsoft is dripping out little features in the settings that used to only be available in control panel. And in this build, they're adding some accessibility mouse and pointer and touch features into settings that used to trigger. One of those control panel windows, not the control panel itself, but the little windows.

I don't know why they've not really had an initiative to simply retire a control panel, to really just go through and ensure everything is somewhere else. Yep. I can't explain it. I feel like there's some legacy. extensibility thing that i'm just not privy to that maybe it's some businesses stuff in control panel that nobody's prepared to replace right and there's lots of third-party stuff in control panel right that right your real tech audio stuff like and who wants to fix that

I mean, I only know a little bit about this because I've been sort of half working on this kind of Windows tweak utility thing. But one of the things that's really interesting to me about the settings app is that you can construct. a link and thus a button or whatever is in an app, or it could be a shortcut on your desktop.

that will trigger a particular page or even option in settings. So for example, one of the ones I actually made a shortcut out of is, I just call it colors. And when I double click it, settings opens and navigates to personalization colors and it lets me switch back and forth between dark and light mode quickly, which I have to do when I'm testing apps or like when I'm on a podcast like this, I have to be in dark mode because otherwise, you know, it'd be like this lightning bolt in my face.

Every single thing in settings can be linked to that way. So you can go right to those things. And I don't know this for a fact, but I believe that every single setting as well can be programmatically set using a similar... To me, that alone makes settings the better option for everything. I do wish they would move to that. In theory, we're going to co-pilot all the things.

I mean, what do I need to ask this machine most of the time? It's like, would you turn up all the microphone settings? I don't care where they are. Just turn them up. You do this a lot. I think you said something to cut. Right to the heart of the matter, which is that might be why what I just described is true. So that co-pilot can do it for you. That literally might be the reason. This is the destination. Yeah, that's very interesting. That's interesting that you said that.

I think that might be it. I'm going to just talk myself into that now. Okay. Let's just believe it. It'll be easier. Yeah. There is an app called Intel Unison that is like PhoneLink. And for a long time, it had features that were not available in PhoneLink, including iPhone support, which is now available in PhoneLink, finally. Not as good as Android, obviously.

Last year at IFA, Lenovo announced and expanded their partnership with Intel, and they're creating these things called Aura Edition laptops, right? So they're ThinkPads. Idea pads. I might be missing something. Yoga. Yeah, right. That have Aura editions and Aura editions have these software experiences that Intel and Lenovo co-created, most of which are not. The best one is tied to this Unison app. And the idea with this is that you bring your phone to your computer.

And you don't actually have to tap it. They show you tapping it. You just have to bring it close. But if you bring it close to any side of these computers, which have proximity sensors on them, it will launch a unison experience that comes out of that side of the screen, wherever the phone is. so that you can move photos back and forth to do whatever, you know, whatever the options are. Interesting. Really neat.

That's going away because Intel is killing the Unison app. And for most people, that's going to end at the end of June. But for people with our addition laptops. It's going to. You bought a laptop for this feature. And now the problem with this is I'm sorry, but unless I'm missing something and you know, this is always a challenge for me. It could be.

If you want the latest ThinkPad X1 Carbon, that's an aura edition laptop. I don't think there is a non aura edition laptop. I kind of hope I'm wrong. I don't think it costs any extra because of that or anything, but you know, you get the logo when the thing boots up, it's on the screen, you know,

But if you selected the machine because you really wanted that feature, you're very annoyed. That's going to be, yeah, it's not a good thing. Now, it's possible that something could change between now and then in the sense of, There'll be an alternative or maybe Lenovo takes this on themselves and they can do this functionality just for that. Their machines, I don't know, but. Corporate in the phone link, goodness knows. Yeah, that would be one option too. So we'll see.

This warning is everywhere. Intel has never announced it formally, but if you go to the app listing in the Microsoft Store for Windows, the Apple App Store, the Google Play Store, It's there. This is being deprecated. Don't fall in love with this. This is happening pretty quietly. Interesting. What does it do? It's a phone connectivity app. So it's sort of like phone, like you have a smartphone. So if you have phone, do you need it?

The aura edition feature that I described where you tap the side of the device is unique, but do you need it? No. I mean, honestly, phone link has gotten to the point where it's actually very good. Yeah, I think phone looks great. I didn't even know about Unison. Yeah. They don't say this. It's weird. My understanding was that Dell owned the company that made this, and it was unique to Dell for a while.

And I don't know if they spun it off or I sold it or something. It became its own company. And then Intel bought that company. And it was like, oh, good. Now we'll be everywhere. And it's like, no, we're going to strike deals with PC makers. So it was HP, Lenovo, and I think Acer. Not every single computer, but... some range of them would come with this app and you know for a while it was actually very valuable because you know again phone link didn't do certain things including most notably

work with iPhones. But, you know, now it does. It kind of looks like Apple's continuity, right? You just, everything, it moves around from all your devices. Yep. I always, you know, this is like the Samsung Dex thing where it gives you a desktop and it's like, yeah, yeah. Dex was discontinued too, weirdly. Because Intel, I mean, Google in that case is adding this to Android, right? That's where it should come from. So you kind of want it.

to be in the platform not from you know you don't want it just on certain computers i mean maybe the computer maker the pc makers might but you know as a user You want to be able to buy the computer you want and get those features. That should be in the platform. So PhoneLink has gotten to the point where it's there and it's actually very, it's good. It's not as bad as it used to me.

No, it's good. I didn't mean to qualify it. Damned by faint praise. No, it used to be barely acceptable to acceptable, depending on the kind of phone you have. No, but it's actually very good. Okay. Let's talk about build. Yeah, I'd love to, but I can't get... No, we won't scroll. I don't know what's going on. All right. Well, so this has been the day of...

technical snafus. I know. I don't know. This has been a crazy day. The thing I didn't tell you guys was... You guys are not supposed to jinx me. I'm the one with all the hardware problems. Yeah, you're doing all right now. So I was... My computer that I use for this is installing a build. Yeah, a build. So normally... You go through the screen, 17%, 70%, whatever it takes, comes back, right?

This time it rebooted and it went into that kind of windows update screen where it's like smaller text and it's going to be there for like a long time. And I was like, okay. So I said, well, it's one minute of two or one minute of 12, I guess here I should. probably get another computer. Now I've not used this computer for the show. So I got to figure that. I asked Richard, if you wouldn't mind sending me the link, blah, blah, blah, whatever. I connected to the doc. I get the thing.

My keyboard stopped working. And I'm like, what's happening? And I looked at the batteries were dead. So I had to have, you know, my wife threw me some batteries. I'm like, this is like, this is like the way this day is going. So. This is probably 15 years ago or something. Well, 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago. My son comes home from school one day and he goes,

I heard about this. I don't even remember what the feature was. He's like, something is coming to Xbox, whatever was new at the time. I'm like, yep. And he goes, the reason I know about this is some goon named Paul Theriot said it on Twitter or whatever. And I was like, okay. So I learned today that. Did your son not know who his daddy was? He was joking. Oh, good. His sense of man humor. He's just going to ridicule me, right?

So I was doing the show notes and I go through and I refreshed the front page and I'm like, Oh, The build session catalog is live. I learned on my own website from someone else who wrote it. So I wrote, I'm like, I'm going to tell you what my son told me. Which is, I know about this because some goon on my website wrote about it. So, no, it's cool. So, as expected, lots of AI.

But also AI across the stack, right? And so if you go and look at the .NET dev stuff, you'll see AI and .NET as you would. So using AI. in Maui using AI and just in .NET in general, whatever. There's a lot of stuff. I looked at the Windows thing, which is... As expected, Windows Co-Pilot Runtime, which they announced last year, built and have yet to ship, by the way, in stable. It's available in preview.

finally, but that's a recent development. Windows Actions, which are the things that Copilot and Windows can do with Windows features. So tied to that thing we were just talking about with settings. But not just settings actions, but also app actions, right? This is going to turn into that kind of orchestrator type thing we always talk about.

And some other stuff, you know, there's even a native app experiences talk, which, you know, is going to be when UI three and the windows app SDK, and that's fine. uh, some arm 64 stuff. So that's exciting. Um, I know both of us are going and Richard, this is something I got to talk to you about because I signed up for it and Microsoft is only offering. hotel rooms through Tuesday.

So I right now before the show really gets going. Yeah. So, well, there's a thing on Sunday and then there's the Monday day one thing. So I could go home Tuesday and just do it normally or I could stay through Thursday, but I have to figure out the hotel. So I get a. We'll talk about that. We didn't do our schedule thing on our dime, I guess. I do have a video rigged booth, so we should be having some fun. I'll make sure to block out the Wednesday block for us.

I am really confused by this. But I don't know why the hotel rooms are messed up. That's not right. Yeah. I don't know. I'm thinking about contacting them and saying, could I stay through Wednesday night? Is that, you know, is that a thing? It's worth a try. Yeah. I'm staying on Thursday and then I'm flying to South Africa. Cheers. Yeah, I'll be coming there from, I almost said Boston, from where do I live? Pennsylvania. I don't know. It's been a while. Richard, you're such a macher.

It's great. A mucker. You got the thing wired up, man, already. Going with the thing with the stuff, for sure. You got the stuff, the thing. You got the booth. You got the cameras. It's amazing. I barely have the... Paul doesn't even have a room. I can't even, I can barely just roll out of bed and show up, you know?

Well, we'll see. This is a new rig we're experimenting with, so we'll see how it goes. I've got a few YouTubers coming in, so I figured I'd get them a rig. Oh, nice. Aren't you kind? I'll do my best. Everybody's saying we should do a... joint show with um who's that windows youtuber that they all like used to work at microsoft you know who i'm talking about

Dave Plummer. Dave Plummer. I love him in a sense. I watch every video he's ever made and I watch them as they come out. I don't know that I... From a personality perspective, I don't know. Not a good fit. YouTubers are characters too, so you don't know what the guest's experience would be. Well, I know what I was like experiencing meeting him in person. And I could just tell you that, I don't know, you know, like it was, you know, I don't know. So I don't know, maybe.

maybe well that's fine he doesn't obviously he has a good show though I like his show quite a bit yeah you know his whole shtick is he worked on NT in the heyday and uh Like, you know, the latest show, he does a Q&A thing sometimes, which was the one I was just watching, listening to.

Not everyone has your skill set, Paul. No, no, no, no. Or his skill set. He's actually kind of a genius. Yeah, he's knowledgeable in the engineering sphere. No, he wrote a lot of the shell that went into 95 and NT4. And someone was asking about Windows me. And he's like, look, I never even installed this thing. I know that people seem to hate it for some reason. He doesn't quite understand why. But he said, you know, it's 9x.

My code was in there, but he's like, I could tell you my code wasn't the problem. You know, like he's like, he may have had problems, but it wasn't my, it wasn't my fault. That's all I'm saying. I thought that was kind of funny, but it's very funny. I like his video quite a bit. Yeah, you know, he doesn't need us. That's fine. People can watch both. He clearly doesn't name me. He made that one. He made that pretty clear. I don't need you, Therad. I just don't need you.

Yeah. Okay. Well, it's nice to meet you too, sir. YouTubers are a breed apart. That's why I was very impressed that Richard has invited some YouTubers. I invited the nice ones. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Well, there are the YouTubers who are like wearing the hats backwards and doing the, hey dog, you know, blah, blah, blah thing. But I think the YouTubers that he would have on his show are, you know, they're talking about IT topics. These are not.

showy, you know, idiots. Yeah. YouTube is not like that at all. He's just highly technical. It's all different. Yeah. You know, he's great. Yeah. So what are you? So are you going to go to? Well, you don't have to. Well, you are going. Yeah, no, I'm going to. I'm going to watch online, right? I think Mary Jo is not going. I talked to her. She seemed pretty adamant that she was she might be done doing the traveling stuff. So we'll see. But.

I'm going to go. I need to see people that aren't my wife every once in a while. Yeah, you work from home for too long and it's like, there's a world out there, right? There's something out there. The evenings are particularly fun. We usually round up a bunch of WWE folks. Go to a dinner somewhere. I think when you live in New York, you just expect the world to come to you. Yeah, pretty much. You don't need to go out. Yeah.

Sure. I can tell you living in Mexico City, the world does not come to me. Yeah. But. I keep trying. You're just not there. All right. You know, I have a big announcement. Can I take a break and then we'll talk about AI and Microsoft's 50th because there's a lot of. partying that has been going on. But I might have a cause for a party right now. We are responding to a long-time request from our Club Twit members. to you're going to be very happy to hear this restore our yearly plan

Now, Leo, you know what that means, though? Yeah, that's why I turn it off. Kind of like a promise here. That's why I turn it off. Well, I want to promise no refunds. If I get hit by a bus, no refunds. Leo's guarantee you're not getting your money back. I promise you that. Money goes one way. But I really do understand that people hate it that they get a bill for seven bucks every month. Right. So Lisa has persuaded me and she has. Some persuasive capability.

I sleep with her. So, you know, she can kick me and say, you know, the yearly plan, the yearly, we should do that to me one time. Yeah. You know? Yeah. No. And she's right. So we're going to reinstall it. Now here's how this works. When we got rid of the yearly club twit membership, we made everybody into a monthly. In fact, I just got an email from somebody said, what happened? I was a yearly member. Now I'm getting to seven bucks a month. Go back into your membership page.

and turn on the yearly subscription. That option should be there now. It's 84 bucks a year, once a year. And- it doesn't save you money, but it just saves you like the pain. And for some people in the EU and other places where their card will charge them every time that does save you money. So, um, If you were annual at any point, and you want to go back to that, go into your subscriptions page and change it to annual. If you're not yet a member, may I encourage you to join the club.

$7 a month, $84 a year gets you ad-free versions of this show and every show we do. You get the good feeling of supporting what we're doing. It does make a big difference, especially now. where the economy is kind of uh can i say rocky is that a good word and um and uh so we're you know we know we don't know what's coming but if you and that's one of the reasons we brought back the yearly plan because then we kind of have a kind of consistent flow and that's good for us.

If you're not a member, twit.tv slash club twit. Choose the monthly or the yearly. Sign up today. We would love to have you. There are some great events coming up. You get access to a Club Twit Discord, which is full of really interesting people, including Paul and Richard. talking about not just the shows, but all kinds of things that geeks are interested in. The club Twit Discord has become my social network. It's kind of preferable, frankly, to a lot of what else is out there.

Well, we do have a thank you Patrick has given us twit.tv slash club twit slash FAQ. Hashtag switch will explain how to switch plans. But if you just go to twit.tv slash club twit, everything is there. Some big events coming up. We've got Micah's crafting corner on the 16th. A great chance to get cozy, chill, and do your craft while Micah does his, which as it turns out, this time is going to be Lego succulents. On the 18th, I'm...

You're just mixing words around now. I know. Word salad. Coffee time with the coffee geek. Mark Prince returns on the 18th, and he's bringing Liz Happy Beans with him. We'll talk specialty coffee with Liz Happy Beans. Our AI user group is every fourth Friday. Anthony Nielsen's put that together. Show us how you use AI in your daily life. We've got also Stacey's Book Club.

And one of the things that's coming up May 16th in a month. And one of the things we've decided to do, because we've been getting some heat from the dear and lovely folks at Apple when we restream their keynotes. They don't they you know, they have this thing. They say, what are you doing? And they give us strikes and YouTube and we got hit on Twitch the last time. So we've we've surrendered.

And from now on, when we do keynotes, you know how Micah and I and others will, Richard's done it, Paul's done it, we'll talk over the keynote to kind of annotate it. From now on, those will occur only in the Club Twit Discord. the lawyers can't see it. And two, you can participate, which I think is actually better. So that first one will be June 9th, WWDC. Maybe we'll do build. I don't know if there's a reason to do that. Probably will, right?

Oh, Marcus said that if I say Lego succulents and Liz happy beans in a sentence, it will activate the Manchurian candidate. Exactly. Ah, now I understand all. must wait a minute where why they're you know what that's the that's the verbal version of control alt delete it's such an unusual combination you would only do it on purpose also there are two leos what's happening The Manchurian Canada is one of them. I won't tell you which one.

It is a great club and it is a great benefit to us. Advertising only covers about 90 to 95% of our expenses. We need the club to do the rest. And I don't know how to turn off that extra. where is it where is it coming from now with extra leah there you have it a brand new um membership plan for club twit Tell friends, tell family, and thank you to all of our Club 2 members, and thank you in advance for your support.

Because we want to keep doing what we're doing. And with your help, we can. Twit.tv slash club twit. Enough said. I'm going to shut up. Lisa, are you happy? I just hope she'll stop kicking me. That's all I want. No, Lisa and I have been going back and forth on it. Yeah, I didn't really want to be committed for a year, but you know what? I am. I'm in. I'm all in. I'm committed. As long as we can keep doing this, we will.

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All right. I'm dialing out. It's now your show once again. Well. Last week, we briefly, well, not briefly, actually, we spent a lot of time talking about the Microsoft 50th anniversary. I was getting a lot of pressure to kind of write something about this, like a retrospective of some kind. I've been covering the company for 30 years plus.

yada yada yada i'm like i wrote a book about this and you can have it for a buck you know and uh or at the time now it's back up to normal price whatever actually It might be a little, I don't know. I think I made the Windows 10 super, or what do you call it? Feature. What is it called? my stupid book field guide, uh, less expensive because it's, you know, He doesn't even know that. Whatever it's called. Ask Laurent. Maybe he'll know. The thing I wrote over many years. Do you remember?

You'd be like, yeah, it's called. Now I don't feel bad for forgetting. Sometimes I forget. I can't keep anything in my head anymore. I'm just pushing out childhood memories at this point. So I don't really feel like I have any, you know, anyone could run down a. Here are the big milestones, the big things that, you know, Windows 95 was a big launch. Remember that? That was huge, you know?

But for many years, being kind of a Microsoft guy, you'd have to defend yourself to these Apple guns or whoever. And it was always like, oh, they never invented anything, blah, blah, blah. The one thing I would always say about Microsoft like the over many years was, you know, actually. So democratizing tech and bringing tech to the masses is, in its own way, maybe the most important innovation of all.

In fact, that's what Apple does today, right? I mean, Apple gets a lot of credit right now for not entering a market until they have something truly differentiated. And the result is they don't really invent anything new, but they come in late. And they usually do a pretty good job of it. With a definitive product. Yeah, Microsoft. We can't really credit them with that exactly. But Microsoft.

It was more of that kind of Commodore, Jack Tramiel thing where- They were the commoditizers, right? Yes. We're going to get rid of the white suits and the lab coats and everything, and we're going to bring this stuff down to the masses, like the Prometheus thing. And that's for me for a long time was the big deal. But I have to say today, honestly, their crowning achievement. That's still true. I mean, everything I just said is still the case, but it just is a company.

Microsoft avoided that thing that so many companies fall for that happened to IBM, happening right now to Intel, which is you have this one dominant product. You do everything just like that. Nothing else succeeds. The world changes and then you can't change with it and you become irrelevant or disappear. They have made amazing shifts in strategy, first with the cloud and now with AI.

has made them or kept them relevant over a period of time when they should have just disappeared, frankly, or at least become irrelevant. Right. So I give them a lot of credit for that. Like that's pretty amazing. I mean, arguably. Yep. And one of them is, you know, circling the drain and the other one has. Yep. Yep. And I, you know, by the way, Apple did this as well. Apple is maybe the only company I can think of.

That's done similarly. And by the way, the two biggest companies in the world, it's kind of interesting. There's really not a lot to say. I wrote a thing about it, but it's not a big deal. It's just that. To me, their big deal, the thing that they've done, the thing that will be studied is not some tech product or service or whatever.

this ability to change with the times. They didn't always do it, right? There was that period in the 2000s where the world was changing web and eventually the cloud. You know, Google came around and did their stuff and Amazon was able to do their thing and Apple had resurgence and took over in the mobile space. And those were maybe markets that Microsoft of a decade earlier might have addressed a little better.

But, you know, but faced with these defeats or whatever, they, they pivoted and they did a great job. So yeah, they rolled with it. That's for sure. Yep. And they're more successful, but he didn't miss cloud. And we don't, you know, I'm going to say the jury's still out on AI, obviously. satch is all in it gets to be his thing that he gets to hang his hat on but

I don't think it's going to disappear. I think we've gotten to the bottom of the trough of disillusionment in this crazy hype train right now. And we're on our way back. Have we really managed not to actually, I mean, I think this is a new kind of rollercoaster and we might have, you know, we'll see, but it might be many opportunities for stupid still coming. Yeah. We do seem to be leveling off in some respects and saying, what's the practical thing you can do here? Right. Right.

Yeah. And, you know, even just in the confines of Windows, if you look at that tracker, a lot of that stuff is AI based, right? As it would be. It's a big focus. Tied to this, not coincidentally, is this Microsoft consumer AI event they had last week on the campus. I was invited. I didn't go. Mustafa Suleyman, who...

is now leading this part of the company, which is a new part of the company, led the presentation. So I think it was his first big public moment. He said some interesting things, I thought. He also had some interesting protesters. Oh, really? Oh, that's the person they fired, right? Yeah, that's true. The employees interrupted his speech and then interrupted the three CEOs. Wow.

thing uh to complain about you know palestine and israel and all this stuff you know stuff that's central to our industry anyway um it was you know whatever it's a big world event and i get it but i was trying i talked to my wife about this just like is this you know what do you what's your take on this you know and it's like it I feel like we both felt like there might be ways to protest that maybe weren't against your employee contract and maybe illegal. I don't know.

Yeah, I question the effectiveness of it. I appreciate their sentiment of Suleiman. said, I hear your protest, you know, like. Yes. The way Gates handled the other one was crazy. They never said it weren't. He just said, okay, and then just went back to what he was doing. It had never happened. At that time, it was the second go around. The audience all booed.

Oh, interesting. The first one, everyone was fired. Well, I think everyone was so shocked. Right. It's like, what's happening? Because that was an employee-only event. These were employees. That's right.

that's right and then the second time people reacted more quickly i think you know you could have done a respectful thing where Some group of employees is outside with signs and the reporters have to walk by them and they see it and, you know, CEO could have acknowledged this and said, look, you know, we obviously we disagree with their sentiment, but we also. respect them as human beings and want to give them the right to voice their opinions.

And that's not the way that went down. But that unfortunately kind of falls back on those people who protested, not necessarily on Microsoft, because we don't know what Microsoft would have done if they had been given the opportunity. I think, you know... first of all it's a tough one you got to respect somebody who believes strongly enough that they're going to risk their job well and booze to state their opinion um and i i think that's their

right to do so. Leo, you're talking to people who have supported Microsoft for entire careers. Of course we know what that's like. Well, but, you know, I've been reading this really provocative shall we say book by uh um alex carp the founder of palantir uh called the technological republic and uh while i don't agree with everything he says one of the things he says is if you want to defend the west You know, technology companies have spent all this energy in this century.

on crap consumer products, gadgets, selling better ads, surveilling consumers, if they would bend their intelligence and their abilities. towards protecting our nation and promoting our national identity. That might be better. Now, whether you agree that or not, I think, you know, there were protests, of course, at Microsoft for a military contracts. Google famously canceled the Maven contract because the engineers said no.

I'm sorry to interrupt. This is part of the problem for me because Microsoft at one point refused to sell facial recognition technology law enforcement because It was biased against people with darker skin. So they took this moral stance at this point, and it seemed like the right thing to do. Every tech company is not Microsoft, but we're all going two feet in.

to bow down to despots so that we don't get regulated, hopefully, and get to get to preserve our profits in this case. Yeah. And expand them. So it's a little less morally defensible, maybe a lot less. But I do think companies, and I include Microsoft in this, and maybe they're doing it, should have a dialogue with their engineers. Exactly right.

You know, they're reliant on the engineers to write this stuff and write it well. So they should have a dialogue. And I think there is a case to be made on both sides. This debate needs to happen. Not somebody shouting at the CEO and getting fired. Not the CEO saying, oh, well, never mind. This is a real conversation just because of the way everyone is kind of kissing the ring right now.

Maybe now's not the time. It's maybe not the right time. This book was written before the election. I'm just thinking about the protesters. Well, have you read the letters? Yes. So, I mean, they knew they were going to be fired. Oh, yeah, of course. Actually, one of them gave their two-week notice. either quit you know you don't give you a two-week notice and they were So they were since fired. They're like, no, you're fired.

You can't quit. I fire you. I think that neither way of handling it is the right way to handle it. I think these companies really need to have a parlay because they need the engineers. Yeah, we don't know. We don't know what that took place, but that was without knowing my thing was I feel like they should have given Microsoft the opportunity to formally allow them to address this in a way that would.

be okay with the company as well and respect their rights maybe or their opinions or whatever it is. Yeah, there's a case to be made that, you know, Just as in the 20th century, big tech... you know we wouldn't have the internet we wouldn't have had the moon missions you know, we won't have led to the internet and, you know, if, if, if engineers hadn't worked with government in the national interest, now maybe we can no longer agree with the national interest is that's possible.

But I think that's the discussion now, isn't it? Well, and that's one of the arguments against this book. And again, it was written before the election is, okay, fine. But remember, you're giving these tools. I mean, Palantir does. basically AI warfare. If you're giving these tools to. Well, you said, you said the, uh, the, uh, co-founder, co-founder volunteer. And I was like, uh, no, like,

Well, he's a very smart guy. I mean, he's not a dummy. So I don't know if I mentioned this, but the book about meta that was written by the woman, you know, careless people. Yeah. is mostly non-technical. You did mention that last piece. Yes. Did you read this yet? I haven't gotten to it. I've got it. The central premise is that

But Meta is doing everything it can to bow down to the Chinese because this is the biggest market in the world by far. I would guess that Tesla's doing that. They're giving everything up to China that you can imagine, including all of our stuff. against the people who live in China, they're going to give them all of our data as well.

So there are, one might say, I don't know, possibly national security implications to this. But the reason that Meta is doing the open source LLM thing is because... That will benefit China as much as anybody and it will help them get ahead in a world where big tech is actively and the United States is actively trying to keep them down. And that is a messed up accusation that reads.

As true. Again, I don't know the details of this. It's apparently true. It's crazy, but that's crazy, right? That company is horrible. You know, I'm kind of handcuffed here with a lot of things with Twitter and with Facebook. where I just don't see an out for myself, but I see people leaving and taking this kind of moral stand. And I sort of respect it. I mean, I understand it, certainly. But yeah, so these protesters, the Microsoft thing, and then...

You see what big tech is doing and how horrible they really are. And it makes you kind of question everything, you know? It's just horrible. Yeah. Anyway, I think there should be a conversation and I think companies understand they're dependent on their engineers. I hope they understand they're dependent on their democracy as well. Traditionally, corporate governance has not been democratic, right?

Well, seriously, big tech has been democratic, and that's shifted a lot in the past four years, right? So, you know, there are reasons for that, and I don't actually agree with all of them, but whatever. Whatever. Our world's changing. So... I don't know. We got to figure this out. It's tough when things are in flux.

Yeah, because you're kind of throwing the cards up in the air and you don't know how they're going to land. So I recognize that also. That's how bank search works, by the way. This unhealthy number of generated problems that don't give us time to work on real problems. Well, that's a very good point. Yeah. So Microsoft has hosted. Yeah. So anyway, Microsoft had this AI day that was supposed to be a really big thing. So the.

What came out of this is what I would call a metric ton of new AI features for Copilot across the various places that you access Copilot. So the Copilot vision that all of a sudden we're testing in the insider program everywhere was something they...

to the co-pilot apps for windows and mobile and this is where you can on windows you do it's a little different you kind of click it's sort of like click to do you click on something and then uh it goes into co-pilot and it tells you more about that thing whatever it might be

on a phone, that would be a lot more useful because you can point your camera out at the world and see things. But, you know, co-pilot search in Bing, which I wrote about separately because they talked about it at the event, but then actually released it. So you can go see this thing on the web if you want. Copilot actions on the web. So there are actions in Windows and those are the things where copilot in Windows can interact with Windows features and apps and app features and so forth.

But actions on the web are what gives this thing this agentic capability where it can interact with web services like Expedia, OpenTable. VRBO, whatever. There's going to be more and more of that stuff coming online all the time. I think the extensibility stuff is really... important to all these AI chat bots or whatever we're calling these things now.

If you were to go back over the past six months and look at all of the little AI advances, whether they came out of Gemini or ChatGPT or whatever it is. looked at what they announced last week. It's everything that everyone else has ever announced, but with the word co-pilot in front of it. So like notebook LLM, I'm sorry, notebook LLM, which is the Google feature that makes those kind of AI podcasts.

so they're kind of doing what everyone is doing um is it using this but it's not using notebook lm it's using no it's using their own stuff yeah yeah well see that yeah that's another question yeah what models are they using do they reveal that i mean no so because microsoft has their own

Right. So two things. Coming into the show, I was talking with Laurent about this, and I said that one of the things I really want to see is whether they talk about that. Are they going to say, we're starting to use our own models now, or we are using our own models, whatever it is. And they did not say that. However, we just mentioned the build.

uh session uh list right and if you look through there you'll see that bringing other models into various co-pilots is a big part of this show that's coming up so the one i can remember

is the Copilot runtime for Windows, you can mix and match, or you're going to be, it's not out yet, but you're going to be able to mix and match models there. We've seen this in GitHub Copilot already, right? You can choose now if using that, I think it defaults to... I think it's OpenAI, whatever version, but you could switch to Anthropic and I think some other choices as well.

And I think that's going to be a thing and that's fine. But I think we've talked about this. Ideally, this would be orchestrated for you that in any interaction you have with copilot, wherever it is, whatever the context is, it should do the thing that's best.

to give you the best results and you don't have to think about that. This is a problem that Sam Altman has brought up for ChatGPT. He says, you know, you click on the model choice and it's like 12 things there. It's like, this is confusing. Just do the... look at the thing I'm doing. And it can be the thing that makes the most sense. Like that's where it's going.

And for Microsoft, to Leo's question, I think increasingly that will involve them using their own models where it makes sense to do. Interesting, yeah. Yeah, I think they don't want to be dependent on chat. Yeah, well, it's not, you know, they're not particularly volatile or anything. I mean, yeah, I know.

Whatever you thought of our industry, you could magnify it with those guys. It's crazy. All right. So there's that. Copilot search and Bing, interesting. I mean, it's exactly what it sounds like. But the one unique thing they're bringing to the table. which I sort of appreciate as someone who publishes content on the web. In addition to providing you with an AI overview of whatever it is you asked or the exact answer to some exact question.

And then at the bottom, citing the sources and all that, which is fine. They're actually hyperlinking each parts of sentences. to go to the original source where it got that thing from, right? So the idea, the hope is that this will lead to more click-throughs. Because people will read that summary and it will be linked and they'll say, well, I want to learn more about that thing. And they'll go to the original source.

Good idea. It's Bing. So, you know, it's like whatever that is, seven, 17%, whatever, some small number of the internet searches. It seems like a step in the right direction because this is why Google held on to AI for so long, generative AI, because they saw that this could hurt their advertising revenue model from Google search. They didn't want to screw it up, right? these companies have been kind of trying to figure that out. And this is innovators dilemma, right? Yeah. It seems like a,

It seems reasonable. We'll have to see how it works in real life. And then I wrote this. This is just kind of a weird set of coincidences. I wrote this article that I called... stupider, which is a great word. And it's just based on this notion that You hear someone say, or writers say whatever, AI is making us stupider. There was a headline I riffed on on Twitter a month or two ago that was something like,

you know, using AI to write software code is going to make developers stupider. And I was like, you know, it's been out for 10 seconds. Why don't you give it a minute, you know? Like, we're rushing to judgment here. Or, you know, Microsoft sponsored a study that was in part said something like, you know, they didn't say it this way, but AI is going to make people stupid.

Yeah. The thing is, you could point to any technology through history and you will find the people saying this exact thing, right? The ballpoint pen is going to make us stupid. I misquote this all the time. I don't know the exact... context of this anymore but in the show deadwood which was on hbo fantastic show that's where engine guy sitting there on his porch and he's watching something occur on the horizon drinking his coffee and this number one guy comes in he's like

what's going on down there? And he goes, oh, those are, those are polls for the telegraph. He's like, what's a telegraph? And he's like, well, it's like the mail. But you can respond instantly. And so if he does one of those pregnant pause things, he drinks a coffee and he goes, why would anyone want to respond instantly? You need to take the time to. you know, figure out your answer, right? Like the way we correspond now made sense to him because he's of that era, right?

So the guy's kind of like a mobster type. The number one guy says, do you want me to tear him down? And he's like, no, leave him up. It's fine. I love Al Swearingen. That's a really great conversation. It's just excellent. And that's the other than his decision to keep it up, because a lot of people would have been like, no, tear it down.

This is just, I think it's like generational bias. Like the car is maybe the best example for people. Like when cars first came out, you had to be a mechanic to own a car. You couldn't own a car otherwise. You had to know how the thing worked.

When that stopped being true, the guys that did know cars that were mechanics hated the fact that normal people could now own cars. They were like, you don't even know how the engine works. Well, you know, whatever. As stick shift, same thing, right? Automatics take off, obviously, because they're automatic.

People are losing their minds now over this notion of self-driving cars. They're like, I like to drive. It's like, yeah, you're the reason we have traffic, idiot. The people like you cause this butterfly effect. that if this thing was actually controlled by computers, Everything would just be on time. You're of your age. You just get stuck. It's always been this way, but especially with technology, it's been this way for 10 seconds, but you're so stuck in this rut.

you know, seeing your way out of it. I remember doing, being in a university class, talking about futures, and we talked about automated driving and one of the... that one of the students put up their head and says, but if we don't know how to drive, what happens if the computers fail? It's like, ah, we'll all be dead anyway. You know, driving is going to be the least of your concerns. This is,

That's a fascinating way to approach that problem. But what if you have a heart attack while you're driving? What's going to happen to the people around you? I mean, yeah, what if? In a weird coincidence, so tying together the last thing we talked about and the next thing we're going to talk about, the next major topic is...

At this AI event last week, Microsoft showed a demo, and you can actually go see it now. I linked to it in the show notes somewhere. They used basically vibe coding to create a Quake 2 that runs inside a Copilot. So this is causing people to lose their minds, right? So this- Because making Altair Basic didn't do it, so. Right. First of all, just because they've gotten charges of theft. Microsoft owns this game, right? You understand that, right?

id software which made this game was purchased by bethesda which is now owned by microsoft so was carmack unhappy the guy who wrote it no this is part of the story So some guy gets on Twitter and this is not, I don't mean to, I'm not, I'm only. singling this guy out because Carmack replied to him. Yes, and eloquently too, by the way. Oh, of course. The complaint was, this is an abomination.

Right. We are, we're going to, we're losing developer jobs and you're doing this. Like, and then there's all these people, like the P the way people chime into this is astonishing. I put some on the notes just cause these are amazing. So people are kind of responding to this guy the way I am talking about AI in general. The goal is games, not jobs, right? Jobs don't inherently deserve to exist. The goal of technology is to cut the number of jobs and increase efficiency.

Like many people don't care about their jobs. If the goal is jobs, we should just dig dishes with spoons, not tractors. Right. It's like, which is the point, like, where does this end? You know what? You're going to use spoon technology that takes away people's jobs. What about your hands? While your hands good enough princess, get them in the dirt.

So this is an AI generated level is basically what's going on, right? Yes. So here's the thing. The best comment though, think about video games today. Video games today are made, the biggest video games are made by these giant companies, hundreds of millions of dollars, the budgets of Hollywood movies, and if they are successful, the revenues of Hollywood movies or more. I mean, video games actually make more money than Hollywood.

This guy says, wasn't Quake made by a handful of people? It was very small group. It was. Yeah. This will enable that to be the case again. Right. This is the exchange server job thing I always talk about. The guy's like, you mean to tell me? The last thing I'm going to do is hand off my exchange, you know.

install to Microsoft. Yeah. Your company is not here so you can serve email. Right. Email is just a tool you use. You sell widgets or whatever your company does. You're not here for email. Like we've lost track of... the point of this stuff well and also this is not i mean creating a quake two level is well probably easier than writing a short story or a paragraph of text it's just Okay, but you understand it's going to do that stuff too, right? So, to me, like...

I have not heard anything about the next Call of Duty game. I don't know what it is. I know it's going to be more of the same, right? Most of the work's already been done. Like what we need are, I guess for the single player game, a story, characters, arc, whatever. And then all the assets that go along with that. And then what we need for multiplayer are game types, which you already have, and then levels. Level design, we can examine levels, see which are the most popular, literally by usage.

and figure out what makes those things good. Some sense of balance and whatever, like one side's not off. It's just like weapon balance, same thing. AI is going to be really good at that stuff, you know? And I just, I'm not saying, well, I'm sort of saying, I guess at some point, maybe completely AI generated, whatever, but it will happen in stages or whatever. But the idea, the goal here.

is to make better games. And if this can do that, and it can, this is smart. And as Richard said, John Carmack's response to this is, basically what I said, but more eloquently, I mean, you know, like this is Just as the guy, you know, someone else pointed this out in Twitter. He said, you're telling this to the guy who came out with game engines that were so much more sophisticated years ahead of everyone else.

And then release them openly so everyone else could copy them. What do you think he's going to say to this? Of course he thinks this is great. Do you know how many programmers he put out at work by giving away that engine? Are you kidding? Right, right.

how many great games came out of the fact that this engine was now available, right? Or the source code or whatever it was. Or in the beginning, it was extensibility. Like they would do Doom and, you know, here's the, you can make your own WAD files for Doom or whatever. And then in the next version, they're like, okay, now here's... an editor you can use that will help you make these things even more easily. And now we're doing 3D and here's how you can do it, you know, in 3D for Quake.

This stuff is astonishing. And it's how progress has come all along. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So I, you know, it was again, just a weird coincidence. I hadn't, I didn't see or know anything about this John Carmack thing when I wrote it. And then in the wake of that, I was like, yeah, okay. Here's a great example. Like this is. There you go. Perfect, right? I don't know. We'll see. I'm sure the next Call of Duty will be terrible.

But I'm also sure that as we go forward, they could be made better. Humans can make it terrible just as well as AI. I think they excel at making it terrible. So, you know, maybe someone at Activision will just talk to chat GPT and say, hey, what have we been doing wrong? And they were like, you don't have enough time. So let me just highlight the top 100, you know, and whatever and go, you know, just fix this stuff.

Bug fixing would be good, right? That seems like a good thing. Here's what would be good. This is my Call of Duty experience. I play as many as five times a week, maybe. Let's say two to five times a week. I would say on average about once a week. I'm like, all right, I got a couple hours to kill. I got nothing to do. I'm going to do this thing. Open the laptop, run the game. It's like, please wait, stalling 132 megabyte or 132 gigabyte. What?

i oh god could you just do this while you're asleep why you know like then i can't i don't it takes two hours to update the game you know yeah that's a little that's a little yeah maybe ai could do that too Is there anything it can't do? I was reading Carmex reply. I think right on, you know, this is what tools do. They write.

that's right universally he said he says will programmers be around in the future i don't know there are fewer farmers than ever because of farm implements farm tools but yeah Now, that's a great example too, like the way you make farming ever more efficient. And unfortunately, the end game is factory farms. And seeds that have a patent associated with them that blow into people's farms and then they get sued by these giant companies. So like everything can be made terrible.

But the aim is to make it better. I'll have to ask Corey this. Does it always have to end in shitification? Oh, I'm going to talk to this just a minor. Degree. The answer I believe is no, but the answer real world is almost always yes. It doesn't have to, but I feel like it. It often does. It pretty much does. The exception proves the rule. We need that Star Trek future where there's no money.

and no companies essentially, right? And that- And we can all just make Call of Duty levels. Yeah. I want to make the Call of Duty level I want to play. Exactly. It's not hard to imagine a world where machines write music. You know, romance novels as well as humans. I'll take it a step further. We are two seconds away from those things winning awards. Right. And five seconds away from that being almost the only way that those things happen.

Not really, right? I mean, not really. People will always create, right? But I'm such a smart ass that in the front matter to my most recent book, it literally says, So stupid. No AI. was used or harmed in the creation of this book. Oh, that's not going to age well. I've not actually used AI for the book, but that's not the point. Yeah, well, I used the language tool, fair enough. Yeah, but they didn't call it AI at the time.

Right. No, no. That's part of the problem is what is AI? Maybe what I meant was generative AI. Yeah, you didn't use generative AI. I didn't use it for anything ever related to writing, like the creation of words or whatever, or the rewriting of words or anything. that. But you know what? That's really short-sighted on my part because that could, you know.

to be better imagine putting your time into more valuable things because automation can take care of the list valuable thing exactly right now though of course you have to put a lot of time into ai and using it fruitfully almost as much as you would put into actually doing the work So, yeah, but I, I, hopefully the aim here is that you're beginning the automation process. Well invested. Yeah. Yeah. Learning to play the piano, learning to play AI. But in the end, you can make music.

All I can make right now is lavender blue dilly dilly, but I'm getting better. I just learned. Cheers. That's tough. It's a long haul. That's like basic language with the line numbers. It's really similar. Learning to play the piano is really similar to learning to read, I feel like. I feel like I am at a kindergarten level learning to read. But it's kind of fun at my age just to learn something.

brand new i applaud you leo i think that's awesome i am it's just really fun you know bill burr is the comedian i love bill so this is probably a fine commentary a commentator on our yeah no he's incredible so So five, seven years ago, whatever, he started learning to play the drums. So he plays in some kind of a band and he's playing the drums. So some talk show host complimented him. He says, yeah, he goes, you know, what the world was looking for was.

for a middle-aged white guy to learn an instrument. But fair enough. Anything like that, it could be coding, writing, painting. I'm learning coding too. I'm learning Emacs too. Learning things is great. This is super healthy for your brain. I don't want to ever get to this point where I have nothing to learn. That's an awful thought. Yeah.

Well, what is aging but losing the desire to learn? Yeah. That's one thing I have noticed, Richard. Neither of you guys are anywhere near this. But as one gets older, one loses one's motivation. I think back where, you know, I'm kind of doing this now because Sunday is our 20th anniversary twit. Right. And I don't think 20 years later I would, I could start twit again. Right.

That's exactly right. But does that more to do with the wisdom of knowing just how much work you're committing yourself to? I would do that differently. Yeah, we do these things not because we thought they were hard, but we thought they would be easy. Right. That's exactly right. Yeah, not because they're hard, but because we thought they would be easier. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I also, it's a lack. I just don't care anymore.

I lost my mojo. She misunderstood me, but I had this conversation recently with my wife and I compared this to when your kids become teenagers and they become unbearable for about four or five years. And by the time they have to go off to college or in the olden days, they would go off and just go off.

You need this. This is a life phase. It's important. They're pushing you away at the same time as you go. And you are pushing them even harder back. Get out of here. So I feel like what you just described, and this is how I said the same thing. I said, I think this is a natural phase. You just, at some point, you're like, I'm done. I don't care. I just don't care. You know, I'm done with it. This would have involved me.

when I was 35 forever. And now I'm like, exactly. What time is it? Yeah. I think I'm done. I don't, you know, watch TV now. And she's like, what do you, she's like, do we have jello for dessert? I'm like, yeah, read a book. Like, what do you know?

I don't know. I think that's true. And you're young compared to me. I think it's very natural. But I think it is. And it's what I've noticed. It's just a stage of life. Yeah. And I don't think it's a certain age necessarily, but different people have different motivation, different things.

We're in this industry that we're in. Well, you live in the land of manana. Let's finish it. By the way, these are the hardest working people on earth. I don't know who started that nonsense. That's the joke, isn't it? When they take a break, it's because they've done more that day than you could have done in a month. I would love to find out that they were the ones who propagated this myth.

Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, that would give me the greatest pleasure of all time. Tell those gringos. We don't care. These people get up. I do comment on this all day long. So if you walk up and down the street, we're on all these restaurants we love. We know of all the people.

We will come home. We will go out early in the morning, just walking, whatever. We'll come back late at night after having gone out to eat and gone out to the bar. We know everybody. And it's a sandwich shop. I just use one example. These guys, same people. They're always there. They are there from. 8 o'clock in the morning until 10 to 11 o'clock at night. Same people every day doing the same thing. Repeat rinse, wash, repeat rinse. And they're fairly cheerful about it. They are delightful.

Yeah. And the sandwiches are outstanding. They're just one little store. They are great, but wonderful human beings. I'm so desperate. a million of these things. People with their little trash carts or their taco stands, rolling out in the morning, tearing them down at night. Every day, repeat, repeat, repeat. You've never seen people work as hard as you do. I don't think anyone on earth works as hard as they do. It's incredible. Yeah. Hmm.

Okay. I don't know why we're talking about that, but okay. Well, I'm just noticing that I've lost my mojo. Oh, yes. Somebody said in the Discord, I should just, or Twitch. I don't think that's true, Leo. I should take testosterone. Testosterone, yes. There's one thing to look at your windows weekly, but I've been on a couple other shows with you. You're kind of up to stuff. yeah I'm up to stuff

I guess that's a good way to put it. No, it's important to stay. You argue with me and Jeff Jarvis at the same time? It takes a lot of nerve, man. Well, wait till later where it's Cory Doctorow. Oh, boy. The good thing about Jeff Jarvis is that I just agree with him pretty much in mass. Jeff's great. I love Jeff. I love him. You and I have the same relationship. It's like brothers where we tussle.

Yeah. But we respect each other and we have a great time doing it. Oh my God. Are you kidding me? Yes. No. And he, I would hate. To disagree with him. Yeah. Because I would immediately doubt myself. Yes, exactly. You know what I mean? Like if he challenged me on anything. Same for Richard, by the way. I feel the same way about Richard. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Richard, you know, I just know he's going to say, well, as a matter of fact, Leo.

The guy who got me into writing, and I was going to become a software developer, so we were writing a book about Visual Basic 3. The guy was a genius. And at back then you would print out everything. And he was sitting, we sat down and we didn't have laptops. It was 1994 or something. I'm sitting across from at the kitchen table and he's going through the papers and he's. And then you see his finger stops and he goes,

sure about this? And I'm like, I was, you know, like not anymore. I'm not. And then he got up and he went into the other room. He was like, he goes, Nope. And he comes back and he's like, he's like, this is all right. We all need that. We all need that person. You need that person. Yes, everyone does. AI recaps for book series and Kindle. Yeah, just two small things. And it's funny because this inspired part of that stupider post I wrote, which was...

Um, when you watch a show on Netflix, right? So for example, uh, this month, the show you is going to come back on Netflix is the show my wife and I really like. Like a lot of these long form series, the first season or two was really good and it kind of goes downhill a little bit after that. I don't remember almost anything about the previous season.

But what they do is they show you that they do. So previously in this book series. Yeah. So they're doing this on Kindle. I love this. And they're doing it with AI. This is not why you buy a Kindle. It's not the marquee feature where everyone's like, oh my God, this is it. It's a little thing, but that's the point. You see this and you're like, yes. I need this. If anyone is still reading a book, God love you. And if you can pay attention across a long book,

If you can pay attention across a series of books, let me tell you something. You're a unicorn. But most of us need this. How do you turn this on? Where does this? It appears automatically. You have to get the latest software. Right now, it's only on the Kindle device. It's coming to iOS Kindle app soon. And they haven't said anything about that beyond there.

It will come everywhere at some point. But yeah, it will just be made available if it's there for that. If it detects it's a book series, you know, in Kindle, I think this is by default book series, just like magazines. Well, they don't really do magazines anymore.

what else like comic book series like this where it's one icon it's like a folder essentially and you go in there and then you see the constituent parts of it there's a recap option in there um that should just appear And then just real quick, GitHub Copilot was updated because it's updated every 10 seconds. The big thing to me here is that this thing that was in preview is now available generally in, I think it's Visual Studio Code only right now, but it will do that project level.

code review, the thing I've been using with cursor. So if you want to get that type of thing, you're using GitHub Copilot.

Cool. Nice. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, that brings us right briskly along to, I believe, the Xbox segment before we... get to that though i would like to say that you dear viewer and listener you brilliant person you you have tuned in windows weekly uh with paul therat from therat.com and of course his books are at leanpub.com completely written by humans with no AI intervention. Asterix, asterix. See footnote for disclaimers. It's probably going to change. Terms and conditions apply.

And Mr. Richard Campbell of Run As Radio and .NET Rocks. It's great to have you both on. Great to have you watching. If you want to watch the show live. We do it on Wednesdays at 11 a.m. Pacific. That's 2 p.m. Eastern. 1800 UTC, and the streams are multivariate. There is Discord, of course, for our club members, but we've also got YouTube, Twitch, TikTok. For as long as it lasts. X.com.

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So Microsoft has been doing an annual Xbox games showcase each year since E3 bit the dust. Actually, since before that, I think. So they're doing another one this year. It'll be on Sunday, June 8th. And then they're going to do a kind of what they're calling a deep dive into a game called The Elder Worlds 2, which is the next game from Obsidian Entertainment, which is like a studio that made Avowed, that game that just came out recently.

The focus here is on games that they believe are going to ship soon. So for example, Fable. He's being rebooted, but that was delayed to 2026. Probably not going to be a part of this. Fun title though. Yeah. And the, you know, like Call of Duty and like end of year, probably not going to see any of that stuff, but they have talked about a few games that. are potentially, you know, could be in here. New Gears of War game, prequel, Perfect Dark remake, State of Decay 3.

God, this is reading like Hollywood. It's all remakes and sequels. That's the normal. But that's the world, yeah. So we'll see. But it's usually pretty good. This is not the event that Leo and I watched, although, well, maybe it was. I feel like this was in August this particular year, but there was a year we did the live coverage of the Microsoft game thing, and it was... the new halo at the time. And it was looked like garbage time and it was terrible. And we were like,

Those graphics are going to get better, right? I thought they were going to pull a... Wizard of Oz things where, you know, Wizard of Oz goes from dark to black to white to color. I thought they were going to go from like 16 bit graphics to like the real thing. We're like, see how much better it is. And it never happened. It was like, Oh, and then they delayed it. So anyway, they try not to do that anymore. So we'll see. That should be pretty good.

Microsoft Edge Game Assist is actually something I'm trying to use, and I can't get it to work on the computers that I'm playing games on. I don't know why. What's it supposed to do for you? Yeah, so what you're supposed to do is go into Microsoft Edge, the browser, enable it, and then you can go into the game bar. So you can hit like Windows Key Plus G or if you have an Xbox control, the white button, the light button. And it comes up and then you can add it. It's a widget.

If you've ever used Game Bar, you know there's like a main bar and then the widgets are these separate little floating windows. So the one I use most frequently is the performance one, and you can turn everything off except for frames per second. pin it so it's always on the screen. And then for games where you can't see the frames per second, this shows you.

the frames per second right so it's pretty useful what this thing is is a mini version of the browser that you can also pin to be on screen so it can kind of be on the side next to the game you're playing And it will because I don't know the figure, but some huge percentage of people who play games on PCs.

will pause the game, go to either a different device or just switch to a browser, type in how do I get past this thing on level two or whatever, and Google it or whatever to figure out the game. So you can do that stuff. But they also... have enhanced it to know about specific games. So there is a website you can go to to see what all the games are. But in the most recent update, they added support for Assassin's Creed Shadows.

And the idea, and other games, I'm sorry, World of Warcraft, Genshin, Impact, et cetera, there's a few others. The idea is that you're in the game at a particular point. And if you bring this thing up, it will know where you are in the game and then say you need help. You know, it will just proactively try to help you.

But there's a big list of games. Call of Duty Black Ops 6 is one of them, which is why I was like, okay, let me see what this thing can do. And I can't get it right. I haven't got it to work. But the latest Indiana Jones game, the new one is in there. Minecraft, Overwatch 2. Stalker 2, Heart of Chernobyl, that new game from last year, is one of the games. It's probably about 25-30. But it doesn't have to be enhanced. It'll still work.

They've been expanding this thing. It will support some extensions now, including like sidebar apps, like edge sidebar apps that will work in there automatically. There's some new tab work they've done to make it work more like the browser does actually. Just, you know, kind of improving it. So there's a big update to this that just went out.

Kind of interesting. I want to try this. I just haven't done this. I haven't done it yet. Someday. And then maybe we'll come to the Xbox. They showed off something called... I think it was just called Gaming Copilot or something like that, or Copilot for gaming. But at some point, this will definitely come to the console as well, in whatever form, right?

Last week, we talked about some of the new games coming to Game Pass across PC, console, and cloud for the first half of April. Since then, they announced GTA V is coming back to the Game Pass library. starting next week, one week from yesterday, I guess. And is it a refresh version? It is on PC. So the version going Xbox is the one we had from before. The one going to PC, this is the first time it's been on PC Game Pass. And it's actually an enhanced version of the game that they released.

10 years old is a game. Yep, man. I know. And this is the year GTA 6 is supposed to show up, and they're still milking GTA 5. Hey, you got to love something. This is like being the Beatles. Yeah, exactly. Your music catalog just keeps going.

Yeah, this is the second best-selling game of all time. 210 million copies sold since 2013. What sold more than that? I thought that was number one. I thought it was Minecraft. What's the best-selling game? Yeah, if possible. I think it might be Minecraft. It might be Minecraft, yeah. Game of all. Let's see. What else could it be? Civ maybe? No, it's Minecraft. It's got to be Minecraft. 350 million.

You know, everybody in Hollywood was shocked that the Minecraft movie. Yeah, because you've seen the trailer. It looks ridiculous. It probably is ridiculous. It looks terrible. But what they underestimated was how much people of a certain age. love minecraft and it turns out the same people who go to movies still yeah and almost generational now right it's generational yeah i I just think it looks terrible. It's a video game movie. It probably is terrible.

But if you love Minecraft, you're going to see it. The Rock was in a movie version of Doom, right? And there's a scene in the game where you do a first-person view where you're looking down like you do in a game. And it was ridiculous, but it was like, okay, you're at least respecting the original or whatever. I think it's also running around.

A generation that grew up on Jumanji, so they like Jack Black. I think Jason Momoa is a suitable... If you like Jack Rock, there might actually be something wrong with you. You might actually want to see a doctor.

And he'll probably go with you to the movie anyway. I'm not going to go to the movie because I am of a different generation, but I will sit in my leather lounger and watch it at home. It'll be on an airplane soon earlier. It's a good airplane movie. There was a video game movie that came out last year that was a bomb. Borderlands. Yeah. So my wife, I did watch an airplane. Yeah. I watched it. Um, I,

I thought it was fine. And by the way, Jack Black was in that too. Actually, he was the voice of the little robot, right? But it was really dumped on, but I thought it was okay. And then there was, of course, that... The TV show that was on Amazon for Fallout, which was amazing. That was fantastic. And going to get another season. I know. I can't wait. I thought that was so well done. You did a great job of it. Fantastic. So it can be done. This is how generations.

Diverge. It's generational bias. It's what I was talking about earlier. You kids. Your stupid Minecraft movie. No one's going to watch that, correct? My 21-year-old cannot wait. He's not going to go see it in the theater, though. But he is very excited. The thing with the Minecraft movie will be how many people go to it more than once.

Oh, a lot. From nostalgia regions, everybody's going to go once. It was a very expensive movie. It was hundreds of millions of dollars, but it's already grossed more than half a billion. All they needed was a Commodore 64 to render this thing. What are they doing? Best-selling game? Best-selling movie. There you go. Which begs the question, where's the GTA 5 movie? Actually, you know, I would go see that. Yeah. Huh. I might go see that. It's got to be in development somewhere. Sure it is.

Is that it? Are we done with the Xbox? A couple of Switch things to mention. One is that it looks like the chipset that's in the Switch 2 is pretty good. like NVIDIA is involved with the graphics. I would order one. Yeah, 4K when it's plugged in. I know. It will do, it has dedicated a course for graphics, a tensor course for ray tracing. Wow. And it also supports deep learning, super sampling, DLSS. That's how it does 4K because it does have 4K output on HDMI. Yeah, that's fine.

You know, 120 frames per second in 1080p? Yeah. Good. You know, they were kicking it with the other one. I mean, this one's going to, you know. This one's going to be great, except that it's never coming. It's expensive.

Yeah, it's too expensive. And it's going to be more expensive now. They're delaying it because of this tariff stuff. I don't know if you've heard this. It's been in the news a lot. Apparently. Maybe not now, though. Maybe they knew because I think the tariffs against Japan have been dropped to 10%. So, yeah, we'll see. This has the feel of something that will change every single day because, you know, every hour. Goodness knows by the time we finish. Yeah. So we'll see.

we'll see tough time to buy the gear though this must be an error what's that oh yeah the switch v2 it's not the switch v2 it's a switch because walmart's selling a switch v2 but no that's geez that's confusing that's the oled version of the switch oh so that's a rev two of the switch one yeah oh boy so careful everybody this is the kind of thing that bites me you know Hey, Merry Christmas. I bought you the new Switch. Dad, it's the V2. Yeah.

No, it's not what I wanted, man. Guys, you got to learn how to shop for kids. I do not. You know, if you just bring them the 24 port switch, then they'll be happier. I bought you a Switch. It's POE. The same day, I was in Best Buy in the mid-1990s, and I wanted to buy a CD, but I couldn't think of the name of the band.

So back then they had these giant aisles full of CDs and people that would just work there, you know, that's the world. So I was like, Hey, I'm looking for these guys. Can I help you find something? I said, yeah, I'm looking for this band, but it's like collective love, collective something. He goes, he kind of looked at me like.

collective soul. I'm like, maybe that was the band. It was great, but whatever. But I I'm checking out and there's a grandmother in front of me paying at the register. And she says, I need a present for a whatever age girl. do you think this would be better or this or whatever the choices were? She's asking the guy at the counter and I was like, please get her a gift certificate. I was like, do not do that. Don't let her buy it. So this is Justin from the Nintendo page.

switch to pre-order six five or no that's just what they said they were going to deliver it late wasn't it april no what was the original date or is that may or june may six or june Japanese people. I don't know. It's got the big American flag on the site. I don't know. How to buy. Because I do really, I do want it. This thing is going to look like a EULA. Register your interest. Yep. And then what Nintendo's doing here, right, is to stop them from being squatted.

You don't have to use your Nintendo account to go on. That's right. You don't want disappointed young fans losing their minds because they can't get this thing. Nobody wants disappointed young fans. so get a grandma get a gift certificate kevin says june 5th is the ship date which is unchanged the pre-order date is the problem all right okay all right

Okay. You're watching and you show great taste by doing so. Windows Weekly. That's Paul Thorat. That's Richard Campbell. And ladies and gentlemen, we'll continue the show with the back of the book. Yeah. Mr. Paul Thorat. So Leo, last week you brought up programmers at work. You had the book, you're the original Microsoft press version, but the original, that was the first edition of that. Yeah. Wow. There was a later edition. It went to a different publisher.

Someone reached out to me on Twitter and said, hey, listen to Windows Weekly, looked up this book and then found the website from the woman who wrote it. And she is, now these are, these are not like from two days ago. They're from five, six years ago, whatever. But. She has republished the interviews and in some cases expanded on them. Oh, that's worth getting.

Yeah, I mentioned it's on the Internet Archive, the original book. Yes, but if you go to her website, it hasn't been updated in four years, but the interviews haven't been updated in 12 years. These are all from the 80s. It doesn't matter. The point is, these interviews are now on her website. Oh, that's where you can actually go find these. It's so worth reading. Yep. Is it SusanLammers.com? What's the website?

It's programmers at work.wordpress.com. And then there's a sidebar that has the links and it has the years and whatever, but you know, she went, yeah, this is just, yeah, there it is. Yeah. Really. Thank you. Uh, unnamed Twitter user. Well, his name is, well, code is the K O D E, uh, Mr. Anderson the first. So none of those are his real name. I would imagine. But yeah, thank you for that. Really cool. Yeah, it's really...

It's really a great book. And it is unfortunately out of print, but you can go to the website and... What I had was a later edition. It had a different cover, and it wasn't Microsoft Press by that point. It had moved to some other company. I don't remember. Kind of a follow-up called Coders at Work. Yeah. No, no. No, it's Programs at Work. I looked this thing up after the show because I was really curious about this myself. And there were two versions of it.

one from i want to say 85 86 and then one from 88 89 okay i think it was just a republish you know it wasn't updated or oh well i don't think it was updated but this is great she is i mean this is an older blog the last post is four years ago but There are updates on all of the people she interviewed and so forth. This is.

this is really it was a great to me it was you know we've talked before about those kind of seminal books like yes pascal zachary's uh showstoppers like stephen levy's uh hackers like tracy kidder's soul of a new machine these are books that if you want to understand how we got here They're must reads, right? Like Sandra Bullock's The Net. You know, I think these are all. Who could ever forget? I mean, if we're going to go back to basics. Sneakers. Let's not forget.

It's like the files coughing on the floppy, and it's like... The tension. I can't take the tension. No, but we've talked about this before you, about these great, these great books. And I know you like, love showstoppers. I reread that every couple of years. I just reread it, reread it, reread it. And I don't know, for me, they inform my understanding of what's going on, how the industry works, who these people are. It makes me better at covering these stories. And Programmers at Work was...

This is the golden era too. There were so many books like between about that time frame, maybe the mid nineties that were all about the start of the industry, the start of the IBM PC, the start of Apple, the start of Microsoft, you know. It was just great. And then, you know, when Microsoft became dominant, it was all like, who's going to stop Bill Gates? There were a million of these things, you know, barbarians at the gates, etc.

And then thank God antitrust happened because then we had five years of that, you know? Yeah. It's kind of really been downhill since 2000. You can see the slope. But this last century was great. The 20th century is really great for this stuff. That is.

Maybe the oldest person thing you've ever said. The 20th century was okay. I don't know about this one yet. It's a new century. I don't understand it. I question it. I don't get it. Can you believe we're a quarter of the way into the 21st century? Yeah. Her nose. Yeah, 21st. That's amazing.

I still like the old one better. You know what we didn't understand that I wish we did? We were living in a golden age. We were living in a remarkable time. Flush toilets. Maybe the Matrix was right. 1999 was the year. Sometimes I have hot water in the shower here. It's fantastic. I don't know. It's not overrated. Oh, so that was your, I guess that was your pick or your tip. Okay. A couple of. Speaking of the 20th century. Again, the best TV too. I know.

Yeah, eventually. So Apple Music is now available with Dolby Atmos supported Windows, right? So since it came out in that kind of new, you know, it's like a modern app now. I think Microsoft helped them create it. Same thing with Apple TV. It has supported lossless music, but not Dolby Atmos, but now it does. And so I was actually testing it out the other day. It's nice. I don't think about Dolby Outmouse for home play. I think about that in movie theaters, but okay.

Oh, yeah. A lot of systems now have Atmos. I have Atmos at home. The problem is it's not real Atmos unless you bounce it off the ceiling. Of course. I mean, but you could, I mean, you know, headphones can do a decent job depending on the headphone. Apple's Spatial is basically Dolby Atmos. Yeah. Even a computer, if you have like four speakers, they can do, you know.

At worst, what you're getting is kind of like a nice stereo separation. If you're lucky, you'll get that feel of like, you can almost see the, you know, each instrument is in its own place, if that makes sense in space. Even with speakers, it's pretty good. So it's good. I'll try to do this quickly. This is like a weird little addendum, but I wrote an article today that sort of about the...

tech product services, whatever it is, that are not insuredified, right? And not as like a list. I mean, I don't mean like these are all awesome. I don't mean like that. it's interesting how the industry has been disrupted over the years. And if you think about like, I went back and looked at this crazy, like. In 2006, Google bought a company that made something called Rightly, which is one of the first web word processors. It looks ludicrous today, and they turned it into Google Docs.

Wow. And they developed a spreadsheet program in-house. They put them together. They had different names over the years. But now, of course, this is like Workspace or Google Docs, whatever we call these things. There was this shining moment, not shining, but for me, it was kind of a weird moment where I'm going to call it 2005 to 2010, 12.

where Google just set out to do everything. Did Microsoft do something? Let's do that. And they made their version. They did their Office productivity suite. They did this. They did everything, right? And this is what that came out of. And it forced Microsoft to go from traditional Office suite running on Windows or Mac.

to having versions on the web, eventually to having versions on mobile, to having Office, well, BPOS, which, by the way, came out, announced that same year, and then became Office 365, and then now Microsoft 365, right? You know, we can kind of credit Google with lighting a little fire into them because this was like Steven Sanofsky had wanted to do a web-based version of his office for years and kept getting shot down because.

This is going to kill our paid office business. What are you talking about? We don't want to put this on the way. And then he was over on the window side doing the same thing. He switched roles. Yep. They actually had it written. They sat on the shelf for two years. They were done in 2011. They didn't ship till 2013 and only after.

Win ain't fail. Sometimes you need that push, right? Yeah. It's interesting because this is happening to Google now, right? We've always had these alternatives. You know, back in the day. You could have any number of open source office suites, many of which still are around like LibreOffice or OpenOffice or whatever. I'm going to forget the name of it. It doesn't matter. I used to use this kind of third-party word processor because it was lighter, smaller, whatever. It was pretty good, whatever.

But I feel like we're suddenly swimming in all these apps and services that you can use either ad hoc, right? Like things like Notion. Markdown editors, Proton Pass. Proton has mail and calendar and whatever else. So you can kind of mix and match like Slack. You could have like Google. I'm going to use Google workspace, but I'm going to use Slack, you know, as well, right? Kind of, you know.

Like pieces of a puzzle. Like obviously bigger businesses go after like the big monolithic thing, Microsoft, it gives you everything. You get everything and that's, you know, good to some degree, whatever. But I do feel like an AI is accelerating this. Because now we're getting these capabilities on even free things, right? Like Grammarly or...

language tool or whatever. And it's interesting. But in the same way that Google Docs slash Workspace came along and kind of prodded Microsoft back in 2006. I feel like Notion and to a lesser degree, but maybe Proton are also doing this now to Google, right? That they come up from the bottom, their Notion.

I don't know why Notion hasn't given me a bill. I use Notion so much. I don't use Notion, Calendar or Mail, but they do have these standalone apps if you want them. I believe at least Calendar also integrates directly into the Notion main app. But between those things. A really nice suite. Yeah.

Proton, like I said, mail, calendar, but also drive with an online word processor, just like Google Docs. And they have all their other stuff, right? I mean, maybe there's some combination of these two things or maybe one of these two things. I don't, you know, it's whatever, but. We've kind of gotten to an interesting point. And everything I just mentioned, Notion, Typora, Proton, whatever, They're not crap. They're often free, or can be, depending on how you do it.

They're not like these ad delivering things. Not yet. Yeah, right. That's the thing. That's why I qualified what I said earlier. Leo asked, is it even possible? At some point, the investors say, when are we going to get paid? And then the shirtification begins. Well, okay. So in the case of Notion, for example, I've talked to my wife about this because she uses this all the time as well.

I keep waiting for them to come down and say, you've been kind of using the hell out of this thing. I'm thinking, I don't know, five bucks a month, something, you know, like, which honestly would be reasonable. Yep. Perfectly reasonable. And that will happen eventually. I pay for it. You don't pay for it? No, I've never had to. You don't have to, I guess. Yeah. I just showed you a database on the web. No, that's pretty impressive. I don't even understand what.

What are you doing? Anyway, like Richard said, this will change. There's no doubt about it. The question is how much it changes and, you know, you have a notion to the pressures. There is a notion watermark on it. Maybe you wouldn't have that if you. Right. I mean, I don't know. There's something you get. Yeah. If you look at Proton, the company, they did some change in their corporate architecture at some point last year, I think it was, where they will persist and exist forever.

It will be open source. They do charge, but they charge to... pay the cost and pay employees and things like that. It's not a for-profit company. Privacy focused. There's something going on there that I think is really special. It's worth looking at. Where proton falls short in kind of the notion space, maybe.

I think there are two great tastes that go together here. That's all I'm saying. It's something to think about for sure. And I think all this AI advance that's happening now over the past couple of years. which feels like the past 48 years, is going to help make that happen, right? I think this is another era of disruption. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, I think so. I hope so. I hope you're right. You know what this brings us to? I do. Mr. Richard Campbell's. Well, hello. Radio rocks.

This is Run As, yeah. And this particular show is talking about security copilot, which I've visited before, and talking about, you know, as these things starting to mature. Security co-pilot was one of the very first co-pilots announced. And it was the one where I looked at him and went, you guys are out of your minds. Come on, that is such a huge topic. On the other hand, from a persona perspective, thinking about the average system, especially in the SMB world.

You don't have a full-time security person. You maybe put the tinfoil hat on once a month, if you're lucky, maybe once a quarter. And so the idea that there might be a tool that would help you prioritize. the most important security issues for your organization at the time. Still, how is this even possible? And now we're seeing in Security Copilot what's actually going on, which is that it is an integration point.

for various security-related data sets. And this particular show, the one I did with Ari Shore, who was part of the INTRA team, showed this because The Entra team has now added an integration to security copilot specifically for evaluating the. authentication security of internal applications. This is awesome because if you think about any mid-sized business or even a larger one, there can easily be 100 internal or 1,000 internal apps.

So answer the question, are they all using the current generation authentication? which ones aren't. And the fact is, this is a tool that would lead you exactly to that. Here are the apps who do not have good authentication security in place. And so you can basically make a checklist of the worst problems in front of you right now that can get remedied the quickest. And so doing some triage around all that.

Bit by bit, I keep going back to the learn page on Security Copilot and seeing the integration list is getting longer, not just different Microsoft teams, but also third party integrations now as well. So there's more shows here for me to tap into. but it's starting to manifest this vision of exactly that persona, the part-time security person.

not knowing what to work on next and having a tool to help them prioritize that list and get working on fixing them. Arguably, in some cases, and Ari talks about this, there's some of them where you can literally hit the button that says fix it for me you know enforce that security requirement require tls 1.2 like those kinds of features are emerging from this tool now

Very good. Runners Radio, episode 979. Yeah, here we are. 21 shows away from the big 1,000. That's amazing. Good job, Richard. I don't know what I'm going to do. Honestly, I'm not running out of shows. That's not a problem. That's not even close to a problem. No, but how to celebrate. How do you celebrate that? I don't know the answer. I don't know what to do. Yeah. As I mentioned, let me go back to... This, as I mentioned, that's not what I wanted.

We are celebrating our 20th anniversary on Sunday. And I didn't really know what to do either. We got... Patrick, I think Patrick Norton's coming back. Kevin Rose. sent me a note and said, you know, I just got off the plane. I went to Switzerland. Stockholm and now I'm going to Sweden and then I have to go to Santa Fe. So I don't, I'm busy. Wow. I said, you're doing, well, he's like a big shot now, right? So I said, no problem. You're doing great. Thank you.

We're going to have a good show anyway, because Patrick will be there, one of the originals. along with Samable Samet, who's our car guy, has been with us for a long time. And he's a good person to celebrate, Alan Milventano, also former host of This Week in Computer Hardware. And most importantly, videos. from our fans that have been fantastic. Keep sending them. It's not too late.

I want to just, you know, celebrate our audience because that's really what makes all of our shows exist. We wouldn't be silly for me and Richard and Paul to get together once a week and talk to each other. that'd be weird damn it damn it i know but uh thanks to you we have an excuse so we're going to celebrate that that'll be this sunday uh twit now you're maybe you could recommend a little something a little uh

A beverage, a little coif to go along. So we'll call this the MVP collection because coming into the MVP summit, I have been given a lot of whiskey. Six or seven bottles. Is this a tribute thing? What happens there? I don't know. I think people listen to the show they really like.

the whiskey bit. And so knowing they were going to see me at the MVP summit, they literally asked, can I bring you a bottle? Oh, you are sure. That's awesome. So this is one of them. This comes from my friend Charlotte. She prefers to be called Lottie. And now Lottie's not a whiskey expert, but her brother. is in an adjacent business in London. And so wanting to get me something unusual, achieve that with the heart cut.

I see it's mostly gone now, by the way. We all drank it together. It's only a 500 mil bottle. It's a smaller bottle. It's quite little, actually. Sure. It's the bottles that got small. I understand. Yeah. This comes from a distillery called the East London Liquor Company. So this is in the east end of London, which is literally an area defined. almost 2000 years ago as the east side outside the roman walls around londinium god wow and today the the eastern edge of that was further changed when

at 1066 and the battle of Hastings. And then the white tower gets built, which now known as the London tower is now that east edge of that wall. so that's you know 1078 is when the tower goes up so the east side has been the east end has been the east end for a long time north of the thames but east of the walls

Now, we're talking a little bit more contemporary time. The East London Liquor Company is on Regents. It's actually on the Hereford Union Canal, which you go up the Regents Canal to get to by Victoria Park. It was created by a fellow by the name of Alex Wolpert. And Alex Wolpert is a former actor and producer. And while he was an actor, he was also a bartender because he liked to eat. And so he became enamored of cocktails. and ended up opening his own restaurants and bars.

and in 2014 decided to expand one of his bars to have a distillery in it, a small one. But right away making gins and vodkas is that's how you make money. You can produce very quickly. Took a few years. to actually get to whiskey making. The stills are very small, a 2000 liter wash still, 650 liter Holstein style hybrid still, very small. But because it was deeply connected to the bar community of London, this is where he sold this stuff. And today he does make a single malt.

made out of barley out of Norfolk. He tends to use a mixture of spring and winter barley, so winter barley being harder and higher protein counts. and he does a couple of his own barrelings, including a version that's currently laid up in an Eiley barrels. We don't know exactly which one, but you can also get your own casking if you care to. It's about 3,500 pounds.

And you can lay up a casking in a bourbon cask for yourself and get a couple hundred bottles from it. In fact, this particular edition I have here is one of only 344 bottles. but it's actually derived from his whiskey known as London Rye. which is 55% rye, 55% barley, fairly common. The original edition are released in 2018. But this bottling was not done. by East London Liquor. It was actually done by a third party called Drinks One.

And so drinks one is based in London and they select barrels and various alcohols from various sliders to create a select group. And that's what this is. So it's from the East London Liquor Company, but it was actually. produced by drinks one. And in this case, they barreled it in. Hackney Brewery chocolate stout cats. Oh my God. So the Hackney Brewery again, a local London brewery making their own beers. They make a very sturdy stout. And so this was aged for about four years.

in the stout casks. And so look at the amount of color that comes in that for what is such a young whiskey, three, four years old. And again, only 344 bottles. I don't know if there's any left. It comes at about 50% alcohol, about 60 pounds, about $75 US. And it's mostly- Yeah, but you won't be able to find it if there's only 344 bottles. It is very, very good. My goodness. Here he goes. He's drinking. The reason is 344 bottles. My goodness.

I'm so jealous. Lottie, you did good. Yeah, because there's only 500 ml bottles, so they actually got far more from what they would typically get from a cask. Normally, there would be only about 200 ml bottles. So that's a single cask. single cask bear does it taste like rye whiskey at all or did the it definitely has that rye spice to it the bang of of being rye forward And then but it's got that chocolatey, like literally makes your mouth salivate.

Like a Guinness or a very strong dark beer is right there on the tongue. So you're a little confused because you thought you were drinking whiskey. And yet you still kind of got that creamy, rich feel from the from the beer. I'm always confused. That makes sense to me. Yeah, but it's a it's delightful. And so when it was brought to me, when they Lottie and a few other friends.

came up and stayed at the boathouse before we all went down to the MVP summit together. So we drank this together and I thought it'd save a little. for you all but just sitting off frame here are some of the other whiskeys like this is a Tasmanian this one's a Hawaiian who knew so I'm researching them now for later editions And the summit was very, very good to me.

You can't buy it in the US. I'm trying to buy it. Yeah, I think we might have to take a trip to London, see if we could still scroll. You know, you can go on the website, but it won't let me buy it. They're not going to deliver to the U.S. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's they're not alone anymore. Nope. We feel alone. I feel alone. We Brexited. We Brexited the world. We Brexited the world. Oh, boy.

Wow. Now, you made my mouth water. That looks really good. That's happening to me, too, and I had a taste. Yeah. Wow. Very nice. Nice job, Lottie and all the others. i'm gonna call everyone out the the one i did a couple of weeks ago the the kempish ver is from my that's the belgian peated and i talked about a couple weeks ago that was from my friend hannes who was also up here which is why i did that one early But the other two that I'm going to talk about...

will have come from the MVP Summit. So we'll definitely call. Gifts from the MVP Summit. Yeah. It's a new series. We're going to start on YouTube. Yeah. A couple of the others were ones I've already talked about in the past, like the Kavalan, which is the Taiwanese. I got a fresh bottle of that. Those are always welcome, too. Yeah, I got the new Casper brought me the stunning, the new edition of the stunning peated, which is.

I haven't opened yet, but I know it's going to be great, but we've already talked about stunning. Don't feel you have to be original, but if you are. Well, I'm not always original, but what I am. I figure once we get through all of them, then I'll go back and do different editions of the first one. That's who Richard is, the most interesting man in the world. I don't always drink whiskey. Yes, I do.

No, I pretty much always drink whiskey. And I usually a different one each time. There's like five of them sitting on the desk, right? Unbelievable. Gifts are welcome. Please feel free. And we'll be put to work. Yes, most importantly. Richard Campbell is at runisradio.com. He also does .NET Rocks with Carl Franklin. You'll find both at his website, Run His Radio. dot com joins us every week so good to have you richard thank you

Paul Therat is at therat.com, T-H-U-R-R-O, double good. It's also, he's got his books, Windows Everywhere, the Field Guide to Windows 11 at leanpub.com. How'd that sale go? Good. I made a lot of 73 cent sales. It was nice. No, it's good. You know, 73 cents there, 77 cents here. It adds up someday to come. I don't know. Pretty soon you have some sense.

you guys tacos i finally have some sense we do windows weekly as i mentioned every wednesday 11 a.m pacific i hope you will join us if not of course you could download a copy of the show please do Join the club again. Annual memberships are back. If you're currently a monthly membership member, you just check the box in your subscription page. It'll change automatically.

We thank you all for being here. And we look forward to seeing you again next week on Windows Weekly. Thank you, Paul. Thank you, Richard. Pleasure. Bye-bye.