Okay, we're live.
How does William Ramsey Welcome to William Ramsey investigates on today's show of a very special guest, a returning guest. His name is john Ney, and we've talked twice in twenty twenty one. The first time was about a book he rais written many books this one. The first one was The Next Great Reformation ninety six, theces for Reclaiming
Jesus's Everlasting Kingdom. And then we talked about a book he published this year as well, and it's about his kind of experience in the movie industry and about Joseph as somebody who I'm interested in as well. And that title of that book was seventy a D. I think it was published in April twenty twenty one, and we
talked about the book in June twenty twenty one. And so a list of some of his other books are Perfect Ending for the World twenty eleven, A Greater Jesus twenty twelve, Off Target eighteen, Bulls Eyes Exposed twenty twelve, Unraveling the End twenty fourteen, and Hell Yes, Hell No published twenty fifteen, and Once Mighty Faith twenty sixteen.
His website is www. Prophecy refi dot org. So it's prophecy r e f i dot org. You also has a YouTube channel titled Greater Than We Believe.
And uh, I think it's a very timely subject, this creation of evil and what it is. It's a real it's definitely kind of like a stumbling block for people when they look at certain religions, particularly Christianity.
But John can talk more about that show. John Noy, welcome back to the show. Thanks for coming back. Yeah, William going to be with you once again, even for the second time today. Huh right, it feels like aw all over again.
Uh.
I'm gonna let your audience in on a little secret here. Okay, we already did the opening of this for about ten or twelve minutes, and because of the nature of what we're doing, somebody cut us off. That's right. There was definitely some form of interloper. Now I'm not gonna say it was evil, but and by the way, I am
not an expert on evil. Now, I've read a lot about evil, I've written about evil, but I have not experienced a lot of evil, So I can't say that cutting us off after the first twelve minutes of our interview earlier today was an evil thing, but it could have been.
Well, I think that's an important way to look at it. Is what is the definition of evil? We talked in our earlier conversation that that's the finish of the Lord's prayer is delivers from evil. But how do you define evil? Is evil different? Is there an external understanding that everybody can agree to or is it a subjective kind of definition?
What do you think? How about the opposite of God's love? How about this? I mean, you know, we could we could get into all sorts of esoteric kind of discussions on that, but I'm going to suggest we start at the beginning. Okay, good, How does that sound for you? Sounds great? And the best way I have found William to get involved in a serious subject like this, and even a depressing subject like this for some people, is with a little humor. So what do you say we
do it that way? Okay? Can you see this cartoon? Yes? You can? Your viewers see that? Am I holding it right now?
I think You've got it just right. That's perfect right there. That's in your book, that's in the intro at your book.
It is and it's a picture of a guy going up to a information booth in a shopping mall and the lady is sitting behind it, and he asks her this question. He says, if God is all knowing and all good and all powerful, why does he allow evil? And her response and the response is or the caption now below it in the bottom says, improper use of shopping mall information booth. Now, when we did this the first time, you laughed. Still interest, it's still amusing. Still.
You know, when you hear a joke for the second time, you usually don't laugh, right right, So, so that's kind of typical.
But this joke, I mean, it's kind of a very He hits her with a very profound philosophical question.
Is why is that? And yes, I.
Mean sometimes that people could give her that blank stare right back right, Well.
No kidd, no kidd. So uh so that's fast forward here. And do you do you have any idea who most people are? Are are who most people would how most people would answer when you ask him the question, well, who's responsible for evil? Who created evil? I mean, how come we have all this evil on planet Earth? And you know, how can we turn on TV and we see all this evil? I mean, who put it here in the first place? Who do you who do you think would be most people would say would be responsible
for that? Human beings? Yes, that that that's the number one culprit in the literature. Most authors have written on this and so forth ascribe the existence, our presence, our creation of evil to human free will. And it goes all the way back to Adam and Eve, you know, in the opening chapter chapters of the Bible, in Genesis two, when Adam and e Eve disobeyed God and ate the apple, and then all hell broke loose, you know on planet Earth. Now, what do you think the fall call what we call
the fall? Right? They say, that's the creation of evil. Well, that's not the creation of evil. What do you think the second most popular culprit for being the originator of evil? The devil? The evil? The devil? Right, absolutely, and and and demonic angels and all all this kind of stuff. And it kind of goes back to I've called Wilson theology, you know, member Flip Wilson and his famous saying the devil made me do it.
I used to say that much more. Now that I'm older, you don't hear that much more. But well, it was much more longer.
Than the seventies and eighties. Yeah, Flip Wilson is no longer on TV. That's that one reason why. Now, the third culprit that in the literature for being the origin or the creation of evil is something that not very many people know about, and it's it's very minor as far as the volume that ascribed to this, to this third source. But it's called pre creation chaos. In other words,
that theory, and it is a theory. That theory is that before God created, all that is there existed, believe it or not, evil forces in the creation stratosphere or whatever you might call it, whatever that is. Nobody knows really what it is or can define it. But it's just a just a theory. The fourth culprit, however, is kind of mysterious, and that fourth culprit is it's a mystery.
It's a mystery. And in fact, Timothy Keller, a very well known Christian author and pastor and so fourth in his book Walking with God Through Pain and Suffering, I'm gonna quote him here, he said this. He said, evil is neither simply the result of flawed individuals, that would be the free will source, nor merely a single powerful being like the devil, which was a number two culprit
if you remember. He says, it stems from both as well as from the effects of a corrupt created order, and ultimately we can't see all the roots and sources of evil. It is a mystery. Well, how are you going to deal with a mystery? I don't know.
If you can't define something, then you how it makes it a lot harder to deal with.
I would say, that's right, you got that right, So let's deal with it anyway. Okay, that's right. Let's do it very important. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So I'm gonna present a proposition to you and see what see what you think about this? Okay, here's my it's it's it's what you might call a theological proposition. Here it is. You ready? Yes? See? If you agree, you tell me agree or disagree? All right? Okay? No evil, no Christianity agree. Agreed.
Without evil, there would have been no need for progression of covenants or grounds or the law and the prophets throughout the Old Testament. Without evil, no reason for Israel or its animal sacrifice, blood temple system. Agreed, Man, You're easy to get along with I know, I just say, okay,
we're not done yet. Okay, you still with me? Without without evil, no rationale for sending the christ right agreed correct, No reason for him to lower himself or to be crucified on across right, right agreed, without evil, no basis for redemption or resurrection without evil, no purpose in pouring out the Holy Spirit. Probably yeah, yeah, absolutely, And here here's my last one. Without evil. No churches agreed, no past, no Bible, no Gospel, no Christians.
Yeah, it's a it's an it's an essential part of the whole story of humanity from the beginning, from the past. That's it's an essential part.
That's real. Critical in identifying the proper origin and creation of evil is that recognition that that that you've you've verified for me of who, of who, of why it's essential and what made it essential? In other words, no evil, no Christianity, there's some all that up now. Few in Christian history, William have seriously contemplated this possibility of the
interconnectionness of evil as being a necessity for Christianity. Few, I know, I've done, I've done the research on this, or recognize this condundrum and That is why theologians and philosophers and pastors and even atheists alike have traditionally been accustomed to referring to and treating evil as the problem of evil, as opposed to the necessity. Very important distinction, Yes, very important distinction. Uh. And one scholar, another scholar, this
happens to be Gregory Gasolet in a book. In a book titled God and Evil, The Case for God in the World Filled with Pain, he writes this. He said, Christianity requires there to be evil. If no evil existed, we would know that Christianity is false. Furthermore, Christianity requires a great deal more than a superficial amount of evil. If evil had to be, evil had to be so significant that the highest sacrifice is warranted. What are you looking at that Christianity? This is the last sentence in
this quote. Christianity is a story of God entering the world and paying the highest price price to deal with the root of evil. In other words, no Christianity or no evil, no Christianity.
Think that they're oppositional. The Christianity is supposed to solve the issues of evil.
That's right, that's right. So in this book, that little shameless promotion here in color, in color, much better, a little bit of color. My twofold focus, William, was to number one, dispel faulty beliefs, which we've begun to do so far, and number two, to cast better light on this whole idea of a mystery of evil and realize that it is not a mystery. What it is isn't essential. Huge difference, huge, huge difference. Okay, so you want to get into it a little bit, Yes, let's do it,
all right, let's fast forward here. Gordon Spikeman, who was one of the theologians whose textbook The Reformational Theology of Paradigm for Doing Dogmatics was one of my required text in my doctoral program, wrote this. He says, if we get first things wrong, last things will also turn out wrong. Well wise, we're going to see here we've gotten first
things really wrong. And what we're not going to see here because we don't have time to get into it, but which I've written a number of other books on, is we've also got last things really wrong too, And the primary reason is because we've gotten first things wrong. Gotcha? So all right? So where did evil come from in the first place? N? T. Wright, the very famous theologian maintains that the origin of evil itself remains a mystery.
See he's still hung up in that mystery stuff. But the biblically correct answer and the sole solution for the problem of evil is this, first and foremost, evil was put on this planet by who do you think? The creator? God? First and foremost, He did this before, before the creation of Adam and Eve. He he placed evil on this
planet before the fall. And the number one culprit, as we previously talked about people describing to the as the origin of evil is human free will, Well, he placed evil on this planet before, before the fall, before Adam
and Eve were even created. The Bible clearly tells us that in Genesis chapter one, you know, like in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, right, okay, And on the third day of Creation week, God created all the seed bearing plants and trees on the third day of creation week, and he saw that that was good.
And then in Genesis two eight, a small portion of that original creation was was a part of the what we what we what he now called the garden of Eden on that planet, right, And one of the trees in that garden which was created on the third day of Creation week, and in the middle of that garden was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and evil? Right, So it's right there there it is who put that tree there, God, the Creator. God did not not Adam and Eve were even created yet, were they? Nope?
Not in, not in, not to hear it, not till the seventh to day.
Right, uh, sixth day, sixth Sorry, I shouldn't know that, okay, okay. So, so certainly it was not human free will to put it there, and certainly it was not the devil who put it there, right, and certainly was not It's not a mystery who put it there? I mean, it was God to put it there. Can we agree with that from a scriptural biblical yes? Okay? So who placed Adam and Eve in the guard next to that where that tree was located? God? God who gave them permission to
eat from all of the other trees. God who placed the prohibition of not eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and evil on Adam and Eve. God who turned the devil or Satan into a serpent and put him in the garden with them. God, that's right, And who gave them access or who gave him access to Adam and Eve to tempt him? God? That's right. And God could have cast Satan to a number of other places after he threw him out of heaven, right
he and his cohorts? I mean, he could have thrown him to uh oh what Plutou or the moon, or to the other side of the earth, or to Uranus or a number of places. Right. Who gave Adam and Eve access to the Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil? God, so they would have the opportunity to
disobey him? Yes, that's right God. Now God could have put an angel, you know, with with with with a flaming sword, flashing back and forth around that tree to protect it, so they couldn't have gotten to it, couldn't he which he would use an angel later on to do that to keep mo out of the garden of meeting. Or more simply, he could have never planted that tree there in the first place. Right, So in a court of law, William, we would call that culpability, would we not? Yes?
And and if if if it was, you know, if that was being judged by a jury, he'd be gilly right correct? Okay, So he also created Adam and Eve. See if you agree with this or not agree with the capacity to be susceptible to tradition to you mean temptation? Yes, yes, Okay, Now he could have created things differently, couldn't he, so that they would never have had been succumbed to that temptation? Or or he could have turned the other cheek and
just kind of ignored it and fluffed it off. Right, agreed, Yes, but he didn't did it? So, But but if he could have made it, he could have made this whole world creation free of evil and free of sin and free of suffering. Right, and a lot of Christians believe that someday that's what he's going to do, is make this whole whole planet new again and not have any evil or sin or suffering in it whatsoever. Well, why did he do that in the first place? Right? Huh right?
Good question? Yeah? Yeah, how about that being a good question? Yeah? So who is responsible for the creation of evil on this planet? God? There you go? Yeah, the creation of you? Not not human free will, that's not that thought. Who's responsible? We we can't create anything, you know, not not the devil. Devil's not responsible for that. He can't create anything. And it's certainly uh not uh uh you know, pre existence, chaos or anything like that. And it's certainly not a mystery.
I mean, it's plain to see. God created the tree of the notche, of good and evil, and and and and the whole circumstances there for everything to transpire. Now you want to know something even more uh, indicting and culpable than even that. Yes, you sure you can have already I'm sitting there. I mean, I mean, you're not ready to shut me down yet, are you. No, But we're past the twenty one minute mark, so we're in good shape. Okay, all right, all right, let me ask you this, when was Christ slain?
Well there's a little variation, but it's eighty thirty or eighty thirty three.
Well, there's more variation than that. Worse what Oh well, now you're getting like, yes, right, come on, people, I mean before the creation of the world, right now, yes, yes, you know where that's you know where that is? No, where is that? It's in the Bible, in the Bible, right you know where it is in the Bible. No Revelation, Chapter thirteen, verse eight. Now, the Bible is a progression
of Revelation. You know, we start within the beginning. God created the heavens and the earth right, and we progress all the way up and God throughout that Bible. As you progress from the Old Town, through the Old Testament and up into the New Testament, and through the New Testament up in the Book of Revelation, God progressively reveals more and more and more and more and more. Right,
it's called progressive revelation. And so in Revelation thirteen eight he reveals through the Angel there that that God, that Jesus was slain before the foundations of the world, So even before the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was placed in the physical cosmos creation, Christ was slain. In other words, that God had had all planned and locked in place. So no christian no no evil, no Christianity. Jesus explained prior to that, and it was all locked
and fixed in place. Now does that? Does that? Does that blow blow you away? Just realizing that? I think so.
I think it's very much of a difference, like free will or something. It really goes back to the foundation, the garden trieve the knowledge of good and evil.
Yeah, now you want you want some more? That will even blow you away even more about some of our listeners. And you ready, I'm I'm wall I'm not making this stuff up. I mean this is scripture, scripture. I mean, I mean, you know, anybody could have read this. You know, it's not me just coming out with something new. All right, as asked to get to more proof. All right, here we go, all right, by by by by by b up Isaiah. Now this is part of the progressive revelation,
right Old Testament, Isaiah the prophet. In Isaiah forty five seven, God is talking to Isaiah. And here's what God reveals to him. I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. Isaiah forty five seven, King James version. So not only did God create evil in the first place, but even in the Old Testament he says he keeps
creating evil that he doesn't now. The Hebrew word translated as evil there in Isaiah forty five is the Hebrew word raw r a, and it comes from the Hebrew verb raw awe, meaning to spoil. Some versions of the Bible, like the NIV, for example, in the NAS they don't translate that word raw as evil. They translate. They try to soften it, you know, they try to distance God from from further creation of evil by translating it as
disasters or calamity. But that word raw, there is the same word that's used back in Genesis when when God created the tree of the knowledge of good and raw. It's the same word. And no version of the Bible translates that that I know of in Genesis the word raw as disasters are calamities. And that that word raw is used some oh numerous let's see if I can't even remember how many times, some five hundred raw is used in some five hundred verses throughout the Old Testament,
and in a consistently applied manner. And that's that word translated as the creation of the good and evil, that something.
And in this book I have about eleven pages, eleven pages, if I can find these things real quick here for you, O. Here they are about ten or eleven pages listed of some of those see that of some of those five hundred places in Genesis and Exodus and Leviticus, in Deuteronomy, and Joshua and Samuel first and second, in Kings, first and second, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, lamentations, Ezekiel, Micah, Zechariah, and so forth throughout there, stating God saying I create evil,
I create evil, and examples of him doing it and doing it, I cause evil and all this stuff. So not only did he create it in the first place and put it in the in the pre fall original garden, and set up the whole circumstances for them to be tempted and to fall and fail, and sent Satan down there to do the do the tempting and all that stuff. Cast him to the earth in that very particular E could has cast him over into uh what is now Australia or America. You know, he didn't have to put
him there, right in that little bitty patrick ground. However big that that was. And and my goodness, gracious, I mean, I mean this is a so so you know, who is a source of evil? Who is the creator of evil? Now, the question is, all right, if God did all this, why did he do it? I mean, he didn't have to do this this way, did he? No? And again, as I mentioned earlier, you know, most Christians are bleeved, have been taught and believed that one of these days
God's going to come back and fix it. And he's gonna fix it my room, moving all all the bad stuff he put in here in the first place. Now does that sound like that's kind of like an oops to you? Yeah, it doesn't sound like you believe that. Well, I believe in an all powerful God and all knowing God. You know, do you think he's he's he's learned better as he's aged.
No, I think that he's already had all the issues of what he already settled in the mind of God.
Absolutely, absolutely so. So let's take a look at maybe why God put that here. How much time do we have left?
Lots We're twenty eight minutes, twenty eight minutes, take all right?
All right, now, I'm just kind of going. I mean, this is a huge topic, huge important, very important, very important. I can make the argument it's the most important.
Well, that's because again I'll go back to spiking this coach.
If we get the first things wrong, we're going to get last things wrong. And guess what. If we get first things the last things wrong, we're gonna get present things wrong. And guess what we have, Yes, we have big time. We need to get this stuff all straight down, by the way, which is the topic of my next book. Okay, when's it coming out? Well, I don't know, we'll see. I'm going to be floating it out next year, which
comes in a couple of days. You want to hear the tentative title, Yes, the Late Great Faith Robbery.
That sounds good. What do you think sounds good? It reminds me of the Late Great Planet Earth.
That's intentional. Do you know that that book has sold over forty million copies?
It's incredible. It's really one of the best selling so called Christian books next to the Bible. I mean, it's out sold the Left Behind series and they had all sorts of books.
In their series. It's been translated into over fifty languages. I mean and and and William. That book came out in a oh, I think it was sixty nine or seventy in that range when I first came out. And uh, oh my goodness. It's just there's never been another book utilizing the phrase late Great No, never been. No. I didn't know that. I mean, I I've checked that out.
How How what's your opinion on its on its predictions? Do you think that a lot of I thought it was totally wrong?
That's what I thought to totally unbiblical. But the popular view in evangelical Christianity.
Unfortunately, a lot of those popular views are not some of the other ones today that kind of have that so called prediction uh pathetic voice.
Often they don't.
They don't work out the way.
I don't want to name names, but well names, why are you so bash?
You go?
You told me about what I don't know about about who else? I'm just saying that.
I think that I would just say this, John, is there are books out there in the similar vein of late great planet Earth, oh that make predictions that haven't come true or we're off the mark tons of them, and they're they're like you said, they're popular, they're kind of easy to be digestible, but they're not.
We have we have a long trail of failed predictions and and and you you would think that you know that that would totally discredit Christianity.
It does to a certain extent. And also you think that it would just discredit the people who authored those.
Books, you would think, But they just keep coming out with them.
They just come up with the next one. When you were kids, many times it is a fun game, is free.
That's what we're doing. We just keep kicking the can down the road, coming out with more books and sell them more, and the and the prophecies come and go. And yeah, I can name names, and I do in some of my books, but uh, I won't do it here because we've got we're talking our different topic. Okay, here's one of the reasons God created good and evil and put it in the pre fall garden and still creates evil and still creates good. And that is what I call the dynamic of polarity, and it and and
and uh. Everything in God's creation is created in a polarity type manner, or polar opposites. Let me give you some examples. Okay, from the physical creation North, what you do the opposite north.
So east, up, down, high, left, right, in out cold, hot, soft, part.
Light dark or have light heavy okay light.
Dark, light heavy, sorry, okay, wet, dry, clean, dirty, mountain, Oh, valley fast, slow, large, small, open, closed, empty, full positive plus minus protons protons. Uh. I don't know how scientific you went against me? All right, day, night, winter, uh, summer, past, present, our future future loud Uh loud would be silent, yeap sweet, uh sweet or savored Uh savor, savory, I don't know, Uh set savory the opposite of sweet, I don't know.
Okay, okay, beautiful, ugly Yeah, beginning ending, yes, no, true.
False, fact, fiction, right, left, wrong, love, pete, sacred, profane. Yeah, I'm surprised you got that one right, miss the easy one? Uh joy, sorrow, laughter, sadness, our tears, justice injustice? Well, well, ill, are sick hope? Pope pope or pagan pope? Or what's the opposite of that? Pope or despair? Oh? Hope, I thought you said pope? Sorry, Hope? Is I you said? Okay? Pleasure and fast, famine, blessings, cursings, riches, uh, poverties, right, success, failures, victory, defeat,
peace or uh contentment, contentment, strife or anger or whatever. Forgiveness, Uh vengeance, our bitterness, reward a reward, reward. Opposite of reward is punishment. Reward and punishment yes, gain gain and uh loss yes less more, uh growth.
Uh growth, Uh desiccation, close, decay young old young old.
Birth death Uh thesis antithesis yes, good and one more ready Okay good. That's why in order to have one, you have to have the opposite. Theesus antithesis. This dualistic dynamic William I present in my book permeates and penetrates almost, if not everything around us, as nature always has a double aspect.
And it goes all the way back what you said pre pre garden in the foundation of creation.
So why would God structure his creation this way? As we can further explore, maybe in another program, because I don't know how much longer time we got here. Okay, God in his omniscience, now omniscience means all knowing, and his omniscs knew it would be necessary in order to accomplish his purposes for us humans morally, emotionally, spiritually, and eternally, to put us in a temporary situation such as this. And when we've been there, not here, ten thousand years,
perhaps we'll be able to appreciate it better. We didn't. I can't remember which missive of Paul's it was, but it was a letter. I can't remember which one, but it was part of God's wisdom that you would come from the fall and rise to the grace and savior through Christ. And it was part It kind of goes about how man's progression was. I wish I could remember that line. I don't know if that comes to mind for.
You at all, But no, he said something was about the great plan of God, like this was the great plan to come from Sin to Greece. I wish I could remember that, but it kind of comes to me like that duality of just like people's pre you know, Christian in life and post Christian life. Oh, I wish I could remember that off line.
God's whole creation, both the physical creation and the spiritual creation or the covenant creation. Uh. You know it is based on on polarity, you know, opposing forces concepts and so forth, and and and and a major physical force on planet Earth, of course is gravity. Uh. And it's essential because we couldn't even walk we didn't have gravity, right, we could we couldn't even drink water. Watch this, there it goes. I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that
if we didn't have gravity. Ah, and and a whole host of other activities. Well guess what in a similar manner, uh, you know, we have the uh moral and spiritual growth that we are put here. Uh, We're put here to to to seek him, to seek him. We have to have a reason to seek him. You know, if there was no evil here? Why would we want to seek God? All right, Sue, isn't that true? That's deep, isn't it? Uh?
I mean? How and how else? William? Could we uh develop virtues like truthfulness and patience and courage and and and handle adversity and be and be loyal and merciful and compassionate and faithful and and have and and forgiveness and repentance. And how can we develop and flourish in these if there were no opposites from which to discern and to differentiate and to choose.
All right, there you go, And it goes back to the tree. That's the knowledge of good and evil?
Yeah? And who put that there? God? Before the fall, before human free will had anything to say about God? Did so? Who who's the creator of evil? God? And he tells us that. He tells us that as we looked at Isaiah forty five seven, I, you know, create darkness and evil? I create I God do it and set up the system for it. He is culpable. Now he's also supreme. But if you don't like it, if you don't like it, guess what right?
And you could actually do the opposite the creation of evil? You could go through scripture and typing good and see like all the different profits and just saying do good focus on good Moses, you know, all the way through.
I think Moses was very simple one. He just to choose good. Yeah. Now there's a lot of different dimensions we could go to from here, because there's a lot I just kind of laid out, you know, the beginning of it and a lot of ramplications here.
Let's leave it there and people can get the book and look into it in greater depth. I think that's a good introu to the book. Like we hit forty two minutes and there's a lot more in this book. There's a lot more chapters and information, but you really go deeper into this. You talk about, you know, dualities that like you talk about dualities of evil natural a lot of quotes, yeah, naturally, you know out of theologians, Like you really covered a lot of theology theologians as well.
I do, I quote a lot of them. Yes, John, Where's the best place for people to get the Creation of Evil? Amazon dot com. Amazon's the best way. And people want to read all my books are on Amazon dot com.
And you're you're thinking about your new book is going to be out early twenty twenty two or later.
Oh no, don't know, because we're going we're trying. We're trying to get it majorly published like the late great Planet Earthwise. Gotcha good? Now you know that that that and a dime will buy you a cup of coffee? Nor luck, I mean three bucks now and back when that's saying published Planet Earth? Do you know? Do you know what publishing house did? I believe it was Bandam I remember, right, that's a cash I think it was. But I I could look on the ill looking to myself.
I maybe you know off and the best place that people want to reach out to you, John knowie it's no oe. Is your last name is www prophecy refi dot org. Correct, Yes, that's so they can contact you any questions or anything like that.
Right, I have five more books, William, I'm on my bucket list. Nice, and then I'm done, and that'll be a total of twenty two. Twenty two is your number? Huh? Nice? Well it is. Some of them are out out of print now.
But well, you know the thing is now a lot of people are getting their books through audio. They're listening to the audiobooks and stuff like that. So if you feel like you're out of challenges, you always go back through and update them with I need to do that myself, is go back and update them with audio versions. But that's a whole other story. Yes, John, great, great to talk with you again.
It's great. Thanks a lot for coming back. And yeah, I enjoy you. Yeah, me too.
And again the title of the book is the Creation of Evil by John Nowe, published twenty fifteen.
Thank you for a time, all right, thank you