Okay, we are alive. Hi. This is William Ramsey. Welcome to William Ramsey investigates on today's show with a very special guest or attorney guest. He was one of my earlier guests when I first kind of started doing interviews for my YouTube channels, which I recently got back. They magically appeared a couple of months ago. His name is Joe Zimhart. His last name is spelled sz im Hart, and he came to my attention. I came across this book on Amazon that I thought was interesting because of
his background. The full title of that book is Santa Fe, Bill Tit and Me How an artist became a cult interventionist. And I've always been kind of focused on cults and coursive cults and kind of mind control maybe where it overlaps. So he was a great fit and we did that show and I actually restreamed it recently, so people can check that out on YouTube or Rumble or acts now or a Twitter, which is really becoming a great place to stream to, at least for me. But that's not
the only shows we've done. We also did one on psychiatrist Lewis Jolly and West Joe knew him personally. He has a much different take on West than kind of people in my kind of maybe alternate media environment, like a much different take which I suggest people look at. People got really angry at me for posting that, but you have to give people their people are multifaceted. And also we also talked about a course in miracles Is It a Miracle? That was in twenty twenty three, So
this will be a fourth show. And Joe came to my attention. I've kind of following him on YouTube. Sometimes I'll come across or is YouTube channel will be pushed to me on YouTube and I'll see his research. He's interested in same things I am. I think the title or subtitle of his YouTube channel was tracing the occult in the A culture. So it's like that word for me is like, you know, turns a light on in
my mind. So I followed some of the stuff. And when he did a recent video on teal and his anti Christ lectures, which were kind of bandied about, people talked about it, but they weren't to my understanding, they weren't published. I know that he went to the Commonwealth Club and gave the little lecture on the Antichrist. And for people who don't know what the Commonwealth Club in California is, it's probably one of the elite premier clubs.
You're very exclusive, super swanky, very nice in downtown LA. I think there may be other chapters, but I think he was talking to a pretty rarefied audience. So I'm glad to have Joe back to talk more about the Antichrist. Check out his video too. I'll put a link to his YouTube channel, but he's going to talk about that in his background. So Joe sim Hert, welcome back to the show.
Yeah, thanks for having me again, William, It's good to be here.
Awesome.
We've got an interesting topic. It seems to be buzzing about the media and podcast airways.
So yeah, for sure. For people who hadn't heard our other shows, Joe May or other three shows, or may not be aware of you, your background, your experiences, maybe you can talk about that and then just lead into what you think about Teal and his anti Christ lectures.
Okay, I mean, you know, anyone can read my book which is answering that question, and or look at my
website which will put a link to. But basically I've been around this cult territory or cultiverse since the seventies, when I was involved in metaphysical pursuits and like ideas following teachings of Theosophy, the Theosophical Society, the Agony Yogu Society, the i AM Activity, and then I got involved with a group that combined all that called the Church Universal on Triumphant, currently known as the Summit Lighthouse, which was
its older name. So I was involved for about a year a year and a half and not in the inner core, but deep enough to make it very difficult for me psychologically to break away, and which I did in nineteen eighty In the fall. After I broke away from the group, some of the members that knew me, that recruited me, wondered why I quit, and so I sat down and talked to them, and within a few hours of discussing my reasons, they quit. You know, there
was a handful of them. And then I had interaction with a young woman while I was a portrait artist in Santa Fe when I'm back here again, who was trying to recruit me into a Bible call, like a four square Bible call. She was nineteen years old, and she asked me to do a portrait for her fiance. Well, we got talking over the weeks I was there at this mall and lo and behold. After talking to me about her group, which was very similar to the esoteric
New Age group, I left. She quit the group and I met with her parents that came to pick her up afterwards, and they were just overjoyed that they hadn't talked to her in six months because the cult cut her off. That was my first experience of in exit counseling, and it was Inadverton. You know, I wasn't looking and her mother came up to me and said, you know, we were praying for her and we think God sent you. Well, I wasn't sure if I was going to believe that,
but it was a circumstances that just happened. And so I got involved in the intervention field professionally around nineteen eighty six, and I made my living as a deprogrammer, exit counselor for about twelve years, and then I worked twenty five years in a psychiatric hospital, which I worked there until the last winter, and my wife and I moved back here to Santa Fe after being away for thirty three years and so I'm starting a LLC, a business,
a consulting business to help people and educate people about this cult problem, occult matters and that kind of thing which I've been spending forty five years exploring. So that's about it. And you know, Peter Teo and others that have what I call speculative metaphysics or speculative ideas about the Gospel come to my attention. A lot of people ask me about that, So I did a couple of videos my reaction to Teal.
And so that's it.
We can get into mister Peter Thiel and what's going on with his Antichrist motif.
Yeah, I mean he's super influential. He's influencing politics and culture and the economy, and so he's got a lot of you know, hands and a lot of different things. So I think it's important if he when he's talking, he's telling people stuff. But my understanding of his anti christ lecture is that it's not really consistent with Christian theology. It uses Christian terminology, but it's not really consistent. Would you agree with that, Yeah, I'd agree with it.
I mean just the basic concept of what he thinks the Antichrist is you know, he projects, and a lot of people do fundamentalists do in religion, project these kind of cosmic ideas or myths into an agent that there's going to be some kind of an agent. The Antichrist is going to be a person on a throne, you know, leading world affairs, or the Antichrist is going to be some system, some algorithm running the economy of the world,
or you know whatever. In my understanding, as I grew up Catholic and I was an ultra boy back in the day, but you know, the idea of Antichrist is about behavior, and that's why I call myself a behavioral consultant in terms of cults.
The Gospels teach me that, you.
Know, if if you follow the Sermon on the Mount and your behavior is according to christ like principles or godly principles, then you are pro Christ and you're Antichrist. When you don't do that, when your behavior is not in line with kindness and goodness and honesty and and all of that, it's it's you know, the beliefs are there, but beliefs have to result in behavior. So with with thel, you know, he's coming up with a system what's called a cult of ideas or or there's different ways to
form cults. He can form cults around a person, idea movement, and you know, certain behaviors that you define. But you know, so he has this idea of the Antichrist, and he seems to derive it from uh someone Carl Schmidt to some degree, and they also borrow it from I forget his name. So, yeah, Gerard's theory, and you know, Gerard
basically broke away from this. I think he doesn't agree with all this, but uh, the idea is that there's some kind of a catacoon they call it, or something out there which will hold back the coming of the Antichrist. And it comes from Thessalonians Paul in the Gospel. And this whole speculative version that Peter Deal puts out is expanding on that idea that that this Antichrist is is somehow coming up. And uh, and so he he uh sees the idea of the crucifixion. I think as uh
that there's this scapegoat idea that comes up. Maybe you can speak about that a little bit.
I just know that your Gerard did something that all societies need escape. Yeah, and Schmidt was like kind of a Nazi philosopher, is my understanding. So he's using this catacoon idea. It's it's pretty suspect like he thinks. But my understanding is that he doesn't believe in the literal Antichrist. The Antichrist is the things that are keeping people from moving forward. Did you get that impression?
Yeah? I got that as kind of like a system that's in place or or you know, he deal is not specific. He tends to dance around what he's trying to say, at least from what.
I read, And uh so.
There's this vagueness involved in the way he approaches this. But you know, one of his critics is this guy, Wolfgang pal Pelaver I think his name is, and who he knows. They know each other and they are somewhat friends, but they don't agree on how this whole thing is
supposed to work. So you know, I'm going to read from what I downloaded here, says Pelaver says, you need to first understand that he, Peter Deel, is human, and he said, what I've observed are traces of deep fear, he told me, fear of death, fear of terrorism, and it all comes down to a lack of trust and a craving for security, So he sees Peter deal More as an immature philosopher when it comes to the idea of Antichrist or whatever. I don't think he takes them seriously.
This deel takes himself, so, you know, and maybe because Theel but basically isolates this idea of of of of anti Christ in his own subjective formulation, which is called is of Jesus, when when you look at hermeneutics, he's not doing egs of Jesus. In other words, it's not very applicable in a broad sense to Christianity. It's very
much subjective and personalized. And because he's extremely wealthy, people take him seriously because you can throw money into something and make it work socially affect society, you know, much as any totalist cult leader might might do in terms of their influence. So I don't know if that's his intention a you know, I really don't know. I just think that he has gotten into territory with this concept of of of Antichrist, which is over his head theologically.
Yeah, I don't. I think that he's he's not really addressing it from a Christian perspective. I think in Ephesians or something, I mentioned it. But I think that if he's part of the Builderberg Society and all of these secret things, and he's got friends in places, and he wants to actually become a resident of the Isle of Malta, so he's an international So I think that he's trying to create a philosophy that benefits himself. I think that's it.
I think he criticized Greater Thunberg too, because somebody who's like a backwards person. So I think his ideas of Antichrist are more consistent with somebody like it's consistent with his ethos of like the the well and the well meaning individual who's make change in the world kind of like, I think that's it. So people who resist that are the forces of Antichrist. I think that that's his view because he's really I don't think he's he's like one
of these guys at the Dark and Enlightenment. I just did a show on that. I think that they can make their own, you know, reality, better than these political systems can. Did you get that impression, Yeah, I get that.
I mean it's it's kind of like the extravagance or of the.
You know, of power.
Somebody's in power and they feel they're chosen and their ideas are God's ideas, and therefore they share these with the world. I mean, this happened with just about every one that gains a lot of power, and and it's difficult to criticize someone like that because he doesn't have to listen to anybody. So in fact, a lot of people listen to him because is you know, his money
means something. You know, for instance, getting JD. Vance into the vice presidency had a lot to do with his influence and power in terms of finances.
But I think.
The the concept of Antichrist that that he's putting out here is again it's it's kind of fundamentalist. It doesn't have the rigor of the Gospel to it. So I think he's outside of that realm, and you know, almost in kind of a neo Gnostic realm of seeing the world divided into black and white and radical dualistic ideas, which is what gnosticism is based on, and and that somehow the metaphysical is much more important than the physical, meaning that.
Uh, you know, he's like I think you mentioned in your video, there's no like he's a deconstructionist, like there's not as many external truths for him. Would you agree with that?
Yeah, I agree. It's it's basically ideology of a sort. And you know, like you know, when you when you think about the idea of Antichrist, and and it's it's something that works in the world, as the world works. It's not something which is going to be imposed from the cosmos onto the earth, you know, like some kind of a virus that passes through and uh uh. This is just something we deal with. Is if you're a Christian,
the Antichrist is constantly around. It's that little whispering demon in your ear telling you not to help that person on the street that just fell over and is vomiting. You know, maybe they need to go to a hospital, you know, and you've got to get the work. You know that that to me is Antichrist.
It's not this uh.
Mystical uh demonic uh power that is somehow going to change the economy, uh and keep wealthy people from getting wealthier.
I think in the Christian system it's both like this the spirit of Antichrist and then a personage too, So it's like it's doublely kind of confusing from Christian theological perspective. I think you're right.
I mean, there is metaphysics and christian is in Christian teaching obviously, especially when you get to the Gospel of John, it gets pretty out.
There even revelation too, right, So well, that's even further.
Yeah, that's much more abstract and metaphorical and uh interesting. And you know, and in the early Church there was a big debate of whether to even include Revelation considered extra biblical in the sense of the essential teachings that they were trying to hand down, but it was included, and we're still dealing with it because people keep thinking
that we're in the end times. Every generation seems to come up with some interpretation of revelations and applying it to themselves or to the current state of affairs.
It's very true, like there are end times, has never gone away. We're always at the end times. People are always looking for the end times. The other thing is that you kind of also see Teal as somebody kind of in the eyes of it or seem as a kind of cult leader where he's creating a self sealing social system. Can you explain that?
Yeah, Well, I've used that term self sealing social system to describe what happens when cult formation takes place.
And the.
Central idea behind it is that there's some kind of a transcendent attraction, some sort of a transcendent statement, which which is true of every religion, you know, good or bad. And then there has to be a leader that defines that or that translates that.
To the public.
You know, you have Moses going up on the mountain and then he has to come down and somehow explain what happened to him up there with the burning bush. You know, when we can look at that as metaphorical or as a vision, we don't know what it really was, but.
You know.
And then the third thing I look at is is the how something circles around this central idea. And so there's some kind of activities, circular activity, which which is the cult activity. Now that doesn't mean it's good or bad. It just means it's gotten tighter, and there's a certain belief inside and outside the system. And the last thing is is what Robert Lifton called the dispensing of existence, for the idea that that you decide who is saved
and who is not saved. You know, who is real and who is not real, who's elite and who's not elite. You know, who's a gnostic and who's not a gnostic. You know, it's that kind of a decision. And once that happens, then you end up with a self sealing social system when you decide who belongs and who doesn't, you know who's among them.
So, you know, Peter.
THEO goes in very elite circles, and you know, people that can afford to be in those circles or at least are invited into it, and they can form self sealing systems, you know, because of who they invite and who they don't invite, and and that can diminish dialogue, productive dialogue, you know. And another way of looking at it is beyond's ideas of WRB on who I really like is a way of looking at self sealing systems. But the more open way is sometimes more messy. Where
closed systems tend to be appear cleaner. It's a lot easier to control what's right and what's wrong. He called them basic assumption groups. When people fall into basic assumptions, working groups tend to be more open. They tend to be more like the way the US was conceived as three powers in government and more democratic democratic republic. It's a little bit messy. It doesn't always get things right,
but it's self adjusting as time goes on. Whereas when you get more toward basic assumption, groups which tend to be totalistic in their ideas based on the ideas of a leader, they can collapse into dictatorships rather quickly, which we've seen throughout history. Theocracies tend to collapse into dictatorships. You know, depending on what God you represent, whether it's some variation of the God of the Christians. We have different totalist systems within Christianity. We call them calls, and
there's thousands of them. You have the same thing in Hinduism. You can have, you know, these totalist cults and different religions depending on how they begin and form. So, you know, I'm not sure if what's happening around Peter Theal's ideas is driving toward another totalist cult and government, but it could because some of the elements are there.
I think I think you're right, Joe, he really is. He's very influential, and this guy Advance is kind of a creation of so he's really kind of a teal cutout, and my understanding the rumors that I heard is that he selectively invites people to his inner circle or his inner kind of core, like people, cultural figures, comedians come to my dinner, come and sit down, or go on
Joe Rogan and say things. And it's kind of like, so's he's very much I would say, very involved in kind of culture maintenance or almost like what a cult leader would do is like this is the person I want to influence. So he's selectively selecting influencers for his own are almost like the the scientologists did the Celebrity Center, you know how they did that. They selectively targeted influential members of the culture. I think he's involved in this
culture creation. When he talks about the Antichrist and his version of it, it's it's seating our culture. I don't think there's any question about it. I think he's meant to set it. I think, like you said, like this is his kind of like casting out on a net to see who buys into his worldview.
Well, it's a way of owning a word. I mean you bring up a word antichrist as a buzzword. You know people have been using it especially a fundamentalist Christianity. It's always a big deal to name who were what the Antichrist is, and there's constant interpretations of it, you know, but I think it's best to keep it pretty simple. It's when you don't follow the goodness that Christ taught, you know, you don't follow the sermon on the mountain, that's where it lives.
But when it.
Becomes theoretical and cosmic, you know, this dissension of the Antichrist is going to take over the world. There's some kind of a dark force. Then you get into territory where I was in with the cult. I was in the Church Universal on Triumph and or some of the lighthouse that went into all kinds of metaphysical, theosophical definitions of what that was, and you kind of got into that that idealism, subjective idealism of the group and lost what it really was, which was, you know, whether you're
treating your family correctly. And a lot of people in the cult began to reject their family, condemn their family for not believing the way they did, you know, And there's this inside and outside dichotomy that gets exaggerated, and I think that's what can happen here if people get to pick up on this.
But it's also the use of language. Like you talked about the use of language. You did the with Wittgenstein quote, And that's almost a common theme in cults too, is like a scientist going back to scientology. They have almost like a whole new, different version of the English language. Right, And do you think that, I mean, it's very similar to what Deal's doing. I mean, yeah, it's a stretch. Well.
Well, one of the heroes I have in this field of cults or whatever is Robert J. Lifton, who wrote the book Thought Reform in the Psychology of Totalism came out in nineteen sixty one, and in there he one of the eight themes of a totalistic system is loading the language. So you come up with a very special language and own the insiders can understand, and it can bend the minds of outsiders that want to try to
find out what's going on. And so if you load the language with what exactly the antichrist is, you can bend that term to fit a definition.
And that's what he's done, because he's not talking about the standard antichrist. No, he's talking about people who are resisting human progress based upon technological themes, which is what he's involved in his bounters. I think it was at one point one of the new top one hundred biggest companies in the US. Yeah, which is crazy.
So it's kind of self serving selfish, if you want to call it that, which is one of the definitions of the devil, you know, being selfish rather than serve oriented.
The I have this video you sent me to do you mind watching it right here? Yeah, let's see.
Play for you. One of the most chilling clips I've ever heard. And just hold on and trust me, because it's not that chilling until you realize what it means.
The basic idea was that we could never win an election on getting certain things because we were in such a small minority. But maybe you could actually unilaterally change the world without having to constantly convince people and beg people and plead with people who are never going to agree with you, through a technological means. And this is where I think technology is this incredible alternative to politics.
That's tech billionaire in Republican Megadonor Peter Thiel speaking at a Libertopia a libertarian conference in twenty ten. He's basically saying that his political ideology is so unappealing that it'll never win elections. And that's one thing he right about, because he's railed against women having the right to vote, complained so much about diversity, and written some really disgusting
stuff about sexual assault and consent. But he knows that he can use technology as a unilateral alternative to politics, and that should really freak you out. Teal is one of the co founders and biggest investors in Palenteer, a CIA funded technology company that has contracts across the government for their data software. Here's their CFO speaking a few years ago. We continue to advance our mission of becoming the US government's central operating system as we extend our
footprint across defense, healthcare, and civilian agencies. And while both President Obama and Biden did sign Palenteer contracts, President Trump is taking it way further. There are new contracts with ICE something literally called Immigration OS and the irs. So fifteen years ago, Peter Teel, like the supervillain in a movie explaining his plan to the hero, admitted that he can use technology to get his ideas across when they're unpopular,
completely subverting democracy. And today one of his technology companies is gaining more and more power within the government, building the very systems our government relies on. And oh yeah, this is the CEO.
The central risk to Palage here and America and the world is a regressive way of thinking that it's corrupting and corroding our institutions. That cause itself progressive but actually and is called woke, but is actually a form of a thin pagan religion.
If you're a progressive, if you have progressive values, meaning you just I don't don't care about other people, the CEO of the company building America's technological back end thinks of you as the central risk. He thinks of you as the enemy. Are these the people you want running the systems you rely on, or worse, the systems that surveil you.
Yes.
So the clip is interesting in that, you know, you're getting into this big brother kind of Orwellian world, which we're very close to because we're actually feeding into it with our cell phones. We are mobile devices. We're continually letting people read us all around the world. And you know that information can be used against this in some ways, and I don't see any way around it. You know, we love to communicate that's who we are, we're social beings.
But that can.
Backfire in terms of who's controlling the system and the information and bending it a certain way.
Right, if it's Teal who says it's and technologies and end around against the political system, then we're in a new sense of politics really.
Right, Well, you know, in the end, all technology is human generated, and humans have flaws, and unless we're self correcting or corrected from some outside force, like a democratic government is supposed to be self correcting the way it's set up, and you can vote people out every four years.
And if you look at the illiberal democracies like Hungary for instance, with they got rid of the idea of democracy and the undermine the whole principle in Hungary, much like in Russia, where the leader stays in because the country would be too unstable if the leader left. That's
the excuse. So you begin autocracy. So this experiment, this American experiment, is very fragile, and we've seen it go through different phases, and we're kind of lucky to have it, you know, because it's generated wealth and a lot of freedom of expression of ideas. You know, the the marketplace of ideas is still very rich in America, but and in democracies around the world. But that can be taken away. You can end up with, you know, a global North Korea.
I mean, you can see that coming someday too. And I don't think it would be that easy, but who knows. You know, if you get one big catastrophe where the whole world is under some sort of high stress, it's easy to collapse into totalism what Robert Lifton called totalism, you know, reading that the trilogy The Three Body Problem by Sitch and lou he talks about that in the second book, where there's this it took five minutes for a whole culture that's on this like a starship to
become totalistic because of the stresses around it. And he refers back to the experiment done by a high school teacher in nineteen sixty seven in California, and there was a movie called The Wave that came out of it, and he does an experiment on his high school class, trying to teach them about Nazi Germany, and he turns his whole class within a week, the ten days of it two weeks into a Nazi type of Nazi youth group.
And they didn't know what was happening to them. But it shows that there was a film done on that, so that came out in this book. You know, it shows very clearly that totalism can happen very quickly, and especially if a culture is under a lot of stress, and we're getting under more and more stress globally. So these totalistic systems can begin to take over democratic systems because they offer simple, quick, rapid solutions.
And safety too. Right, So this is they.
Give you a kind of if you side with that, then you feel safe.
Yeah. Right. And it was interesting that Carp in that video says that the enemy is this thinly veiled paganism. Like wow, so this kind of view is pagan and we are the antib that puts him into the anti pagan forces. Tell you want to talk about totalist religion, It's like buy a simple binary, right, this is like woke is thinly veiled paganism. It's interesting, yeah, it is.
I mean, you can you can impose totalism using any religion. You can use Buddhism, you can use Hinduism, you can use Christianity. It depends how you dumb it down, how you define it and impose it on people. You can twist the words of Jesus, and many cults have done that, thousands of them. So you can twist the words of Lenin, You can twist the words of Tolstoy, you know you can. It just depends on how open the debate is around
whatever is being said. And that's probably the key to this whole thing, is to keep the debate open and allow other voices to be to be heard, like you would in any democratic society. But it seems like, you know, there is this exaggerated pronouncement of what's evil and what isn't and it allows for totalism to take place for government, like in Hungary. You know, it was evil to allow all of these these immigrants into a very small country of ten million people, and they were afraid of losing
their gran identity, you know, being overwhelmed by immigrants. And that fear was taken up by urban victor Urban and people bought into him, at least enough people to elect him. And now he's pushed it even further where now he's aligned with Putin more or less than he is with Russia. And you know, there's a lot of American so called Christians gone to Hungary and kind of thought that what Orbon is doing is interesting. It might work in America,
you know, but it's it's called illiberalism. It's not not what our founding fathers conceived of here.
No, that's what Jarvin thinks. He thinks that there's like this concept of a cathedral and it should go away, and there should be some kind of like almost a technique who should run everything, and that it would be more equitable in not regard.
Oh, it would be more efficient.
Efficient.
You know, we don't have an efficient society. It's kind of messy. And one thing that a totalist does not like is messy, you know. In other words, if you have people gendering themselves, you know, for a while during their lives, it's kind of messy. You don't know whether it's a he, she it or what. And it irritates people that tend to be conservative, you know. So we've been going through that problem and also the idea of immigrants.
You know, our country has been founded on immigration, and a lot of our farming systems, especially in the southwest and in the eastern New Jersey, depend on immigrants to come during the picking season, you know, the harvest season, because they weren't cheaper, you know they and Americans don't like to work for five bucks an hour or whatever it is. So you know, that's part of our culture. It doesn't mean it's evil or bad or it's going
to undermine the culture. It just has to be managed properly. But now we got this whole thing about, you know, ceiling off the border and you know immigrants that come in quote illegally or even temporarily or you know. So, so we're going through some changes right now. I don't know how long the American public will tolerate it. But Peter Thiel, you know, he got his guy into office and he couldn't be president.
He sure did. They all did. If you remember when Trump was elected, sitting behind any more all of the great big tech, all the Google, Teal musk, I mean, the Liska, a guy from Apple whose name I can't remember right now, but they're all there. Like he was showing that tech was on board with him. And you did. You did a video on teal Speculative religion, Luminous Lux says, I can't even pinpoint what belief system teals out any ideas?
Do you do you want to expand on that or talk about his speculative religion.
Well, I don't know if he has one.
You know it.
There there is a HARKing back to who is it Leo Strauss and his ideas. It seems like he had Ostraussian moment and that still seems to be part of his his theme here, and that's basically, uh stating that that democracy can't work, not in a modern ad. It's too messy. And so the idea of a theocracy or something resembling that, you know, and is better to manage society because you you know, there's too many people displaying too many power moves, like you know, gendering themselves in
eleven different ways rather than having two genders. You know, so that's a big deal to these people. Overall in society is not that big a deal. There aren't that many numbers in terms of people doing that kind of extreme self gendering. But but yeah, Leo Strauss's ideas I think influenced this whole idea of applying a kind of a theocracy back into society because that would help us manage it better.
It's simpler, you know, you you.
Don't have the messiness of American democracy.
Democracy is messy, that's like the whole thing. It's like, you have dispersion of powers, and there's always the temptation for centralization. But the people who founded this country resisted that temptation.
But yeah, they didn't want a king, you know, that that was what was some kind of a fickle human who could be influenced, you know, based on his own jealousies and prerogatives and not really seeing what's.
Good for the people. You know. So we got rid of kingdom.
You know, it was risky and in fact, you know, in the early days, some of the Americans around Washington that were still favoring some of the British system wanted to make George Washington king, you know, and he.
Stepped out of that.
There was a movement you know, toward that to kind of re established that because it's simpler, it's a lot easier to define. We're still defining democracy, you know what it means. We have bills and amendments and you know, and and government, some say has gotten too fat because of that, you have, you have too much government, and that's part of the.
Appeal of having.
You know, the the more lean government of the Trump claims to represent is to pare it down, to get rid of it. But the problem is when you get rid of that, you also can get rid of those forces which are there to protect the rights of the people, right, you know, And and when you erode that, then you begin elevating back into an autocracy, a kingdom or whatever you want to make.
These guys on the right, the alt right or whatever that include this guy who's kind of coming up, Nick fount Is they all and this includes Teal two is the power and the centralization of the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Empire. They like that, they like Stalin. So these are tells, guys, these are dangerous things like but you can.
Yeah, yeah, you can see this also in Russian politics under Putin. You know, he's adopted something called cosmism. And if you look at the history, but it started in nineteenth century and appeals a lot to people that want more totalism and government, more power at the top than with the people. And I mean, if you look up cosmism, it's a very interesting history behind it. But it also was aligned with the idea of the spread of technology
and going into space. And you know, part of cosmis theory is that that we're going to discover the original Eden, you know, somewhere, and that everybody that died will be able to resurrect it. Sometimes because we're all space to us after we die, but there's gonna be a way to resurrect everybody. It's it's very bizarre.
Uh.
But uh, but but that's taking hold of Putin and some Russian leaders, is this idea of cosmism. But but all that basically is is the same thing as if you applied theism, let's say too to a democratic nation, then you end up destroying the democracy. You can't have a theistic you know, dictator on top, uh in a true democracy.
Right.
It's uh, it's there's a lot of temptation. I guess there should be a book called like the Temptation to Centralization because it always happens, you know, it's always going on in US. Is really unique in that sense that it's still it's happened more and more as DC has become more powerful and federalization, but still it it wasn't intended to be the centralized. It was supposed to be independent states. Guys. If anybody has any questions for the guests,
you know, put them in the chat please. They all come in for people who don't know you're on different sites. When you and you're using stream yard, if you're on any sites, they all get centralized to me, so you may all not see the entire chat. I tried to have the ticker run so that you guys could see it, but I'm also trying to manage it too. We've got two hundred and fifty live listeners, so everybody, thanks for tuning in, and hopefully you know you can follow up
with Joe and check out his YouTube channel. He has a hard stop so we might follow up with another follow on to this, But yeah, I mean he does talk. Teal talked about there was a Hoover Institute a lecture that I looked at, and he'd mentioned Girod and this love of the Roman Empire. He didn't say love with the Roman Empire, but the admiration for these big, giant, powerful organizations like the Roman Empire and uh, the Catholic Church, which is still very powerful and centralized. I mean, you
want to talk about centralization, I mean something else. And I did a show on Nick not like Nick Land, who is a bad guy, but also Jarvin who's kind of influenced these guys. Yeah, it has that kind of centralized you know, we can do better than the current system view. Yeah, so I think that's a good point.
You know, we we have, uh, this idea of of centralized government. You have to have some of that, but it has to be moderated continually. You can't as end up with a dictatorship. And uh, you know, in any company that you form, you have to have some kind of centralized government or so we can't function. There has to be rules and regulations and a leader and and uh you know, but but there's also has to be
a mechanism to get rid of the leader. You know, if if they're not functioning properly in any corporation, in any church and any name or that that calls themselves democratic. But when you have going on now, is this push toward centralized leadership that that gains more and more power like a corporate leader might have and doesn't want to let go of his holdings.
You know, So you have this.
Back in the cult I was in the Church Universal on Triumph, it used to call this the capitalist communist conspiracy, you know, to take over the world. There was some truth in that, except that the cull. The Church Universal at the time, run by Elizabeth Prophet was acting like what it was criticizing.
You know, it's like, well it goes back to Giran, right, So she had her scapegoat, but it's a deflection. These scapegoats often are deflections from the real right, you know, the real perpetrator of these centralizers, like clear profit was really something else. I want to talk about some of the techniques of like cultism and language and manipulation of language.
What was all there and and and that that cult blended everything from you know, fundamentalist Christianity, the the theosophical stuff, Indian religion. It blended everything together, you know. So when I was involved in that, it gave me an insight into a wide variety of cult behaviors out there because of its it's uh syncretism. It just blended everything into this great white brotherhood of masters that run the universe
and influencing the earth. And this one person, Elizabeth Prophet, was their spokesperson.
No one else could do. They're always the same or so, guys, it's me or Ulbert actually called himself source I remember, Okay, yeah, pretty wild. Yeah he did, he did. Joe we are at the fifty minute mark. If anybody has any questions, put him in the chat. I'll see if I can go through and find something.
Why don't you find one or two? Because I do have to go heart you have a heart stop for me.
Sorry, thanks for working around my schedule. Let's see. I wonder if the LDS Church and all authorities, mister Dan and Armagudon, maybe they believe in armageddon. This whole concept of armageddon is around. There's no question. See anybody have any questions, great stream, Thanks eucle tud Thanks everybody for listening on short notice. And if anybody has any questions, put it out here. Nick Land and Jarvignat they both
go together. These are guys who believe in this. They also think this aggregation of power, but they never see They never provide a way out, like how does this power stop or disperse? That's one of the giveaways is like they're never saying, oh, well, you can intrograte this power and then give it away for free. It never works out like that. There's very few incidences in history where people give away power they usually used to be they would die or something like that, like Washington quitting
his job after eight years was very unique. That was unique.
Yeah, and it's set a precedent which we hopefully can continue to do, unlike happening in Hungary and Russia and other places.
Yeah. Well, YouTube is saying ten people watching, but I'm seeing two on fifty overall platforms. That's that's what you don't get, spam hunter. These comments come from three YouTube channels Rumble, Twitter, Acts, Rock Finn and they're coming in. So you may only see ten people on one YouTube channel. I don't know which one of my YouTube channels I made. I was really dumb when I when they started censoring me because I would just start a new YouTube channel
and that they cancel that. There's actually another YouTube channel of mine out there that they had not giving back to me. So yeah, Dystopinc sixty seven on her YouTube channel. Any thoughts on Gerard's book on scapegoating, Uh, Joe.
I haven't read it, so I read about it, but I don't know what.
Do you know about it? Maybe I could cut in on that. I don't know much. I've heard it in a different instances. Gerard seems to be a philosopher, French philosopher. People are going back to but I remember it's kind of concepts on the counter initiation, so kind of coming out of certain enchantments of people and things like that.
Okay, there was something I printed out just the reference, but from this essay on Peter Theo from Wired, and it said for some Girardi is this was a breaking point. The memetic theorist Bernard Perree Lambast advanced his billionaire mentor in a French political journal, accusing them of casting a shadow over.
Lost Joe. He seems to have come up. Maybe it's me on my side. But no, there you go, you're back. Maybe a good way to end. Do you remember do you have that witt Stein quote that you said in the field thing? Yeah, that's.
Only I looked at Vixen Side, one of my favorite philosophers. He was kind of a contrarian in some ways. But you know he also uh privately maintained his Catholic religious faith, but it wasn't something he dealt with philosophically. He said that philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of our language. So we can get caught.
Up in our own words.
They can become an echo chamber you know, we keep hearing the same words and totalistic societies, and Robert Lifton called it loading the language. If you load the language of a culture, you can actually bend the way they think.
So, uh, it's Erwellian rights speaking.
Yeah, that's that's basically what it was often called it loading the language. But but but yeah, so vickensign's good to look at in terms of that, and his idea of philosophy was just the way to to break down what some people said here the word magic, you know, the magical spell that words can cast over us. Vickenstein always attacked that and and try to find a way to break that apart.
You know.
So we see a lot of these word games going on around deal and and that that we are a crowd of billionaires that are influencing government in the world through Trump at this point. Uh yeah, it's it's a little alarming, but it's America and things can change, you know, people do sometimes wake up and bothe these guys out.
So, yeah, this is Joe's channel. If you're watching this, so check it out. I'll put a link in the show notes you can go see these waves. Yes, yeah, the wave is the name of the movie Rights. It's called The Wave.
It came out nineteen sixty seven and it was based on a classroom experiment out in pallow out to California.
Yeah, I hit the like guys hit like on any YouTube channel there. Lily says, you can find the truth through language. Also use myths as code words you have to do. And I think that some of these things that Teal's talking about is like the power of search and myths and things like that, or his his view of armagedd and Antichriser somewhat meant they're not tied in Christian theology in my opinion. But we had two hundred
and fifty live listeners. Check it out. Joe, where can people find you other than your YouTube channel and your book?
Well, I have email. They can look that up. It's Jasim hard at gmail dot com. And you know I tend to answer people with a email me, so that's one way to find me.
Yeah. And you have a lot of videos. You put a lot of material. I have a lot of videos.
You have a lot of different over one hundred by now a different topics.
Including this one. Yeah, so go check it out. Put a link to that. And again it's Joe Zimmart s Z I M H A R T. So check that out. You can just dipe it into YouTube. And today we talked about the concept of Peter Teal's anti christ. I think these subjects and the importance of them is not going away. So I think it's important to watch these guys. And they're all kind of they have their own philosophies. They're just they're so impactful. It's important to see like
where they're going, guys like deals. So is there anything else you'd like to add? I know, you got a run.
Yeah, I got it going in a about thirty seconds here. Yeah, we can we can follow up on this, Okay, great, Maybe be a little more specific because this is like a broad general topic about Deal. And the thing is he's he's changing a bit too. I don't know if he's going to get out of this this bubble he's in. You know, he's he's caught up in himself because so powerful, which.
Happens to wealthy people, sure does. And people check out our other interviews. We covered a course in Miracles Lewis and Jollian West, and also Joe's writing about becoming a cult interventionist and all his involvement and stuff like that really great book Santa fe bil tating me How an artist became a cult interventionist. And again the guest is Joseph Simmart. Joe. Thanks until next time. Thanks so much, appreciate you