Okay, we're love how this is William Ramsey. Welcome to William Ramsey Investigates on Tonight Show. Have a very special guest. His name is Robert L. Bryan and he has written a book titled Crime Staying Safe, Quick and Easy Ways to Avoid becoming a crime Victim. It's very interesting. I read through it and took a lot of notes and learned quite a few things about how to avoid becoming a victim of a crime. This is not mister Brian's first book. He has over twenty books, many of them
on Amazon. There's fictional books titled Missing a Findlani New York City Mystery Books, so there's one of five of those. There's also Dark Knights, but he's also written in nonfiction. One of those nonfiction books is The Last Apostle, an unholy alliance has brought New York City to its knees. And then there's another one, Seacase, an Unlikely journey from a transit cop to Internal Affairs Bureau Squad commander from
twenty eighteen. So maybe we can reference a few of those today, but we're again we're going to talk about, you know, staying sit avoiding becoming a victim of crimes. So, Robert Albern are you there? Yes, awesome, Well, thanks for greeing to the interview for people and may not know your background. Can you talk about your background and what led you to write this book Crime Staying Safety.
Sure, and first of if it's a pleasure to be here, thanks for having me. I've spent my whole life in the fields of law enforcement, security, and academia. I'm a retired captain from the New York Sate Police Department. I spent twenty years on the job. Before that, my first job, real job in law enforcement, I was a Board of Patrol agent. I spent two years on the California Mexican border.
I'm currently the chief security officer for a very high security New York State government facility, and I also teach. I'm an adjunct professor at a local Long Island.
College where I.
Teach courses in physical security. So I guess, coming right down to it. When I first started writing, one of the articles that I had read on subjects to write, and what kept coming up over and over again was authors should write what they know. And I just felt that if I was going to be writing nonfiction, a book like this like crime staying safe. This is an area that I know my whole life has been involved in this subject, right.
And so you definitely have a knowledgeable background. You include that in there in this book. But one of the main questions you ask, and a lot of crime victims to ask, is why me? So can you elaborate on that concept of crime victims?
Sure, and it's a common question and there is an answer to it, because the central premise of the book is what is it that a person does, whether they do it consciously or unconsciously, what is it that they did or didn't do that made them attractive to that criminal to make that criminal choose them? Because I don't I don't believe there's there's Again, nothing's ever one hundred percent, and that's one of the things about crime. There's no constants that are one hundred percent. But it is very
very rare that a victim is chosen randomly. And people may dispute that because saying, well, the plenty of times the victim, there's not no the perpetrator. That's true, But even if it's only a few seconds of thought process, there are things that go on in that criminal's mind that made them make the selection to victimize that particular the person, and it's usually something characteristic about that person or something they did or something they didn't do, something
they showed, something they didn't show. So again it's victimization is very much a too primed approach. It involves understanding the mindset of the criminal, but it also involves understanding the mindset and the actions of the victim.
Right, So, I mean, I think that's really important is that it's both parties and you have a lot of research and background into this the different you know, the victim and the criminal in your book, but you know they talk about different things. You talk about kind of rational choice theory and what the criminals looking for. What are the criminals looking for in a victim?
Yeah, it's it's rational. There are many many theories of criminal behavior. Some of them I don't and I don't want to say waste time, because it's never a waste, but there are too many theories that just go out of that way to blame the victim. I'm looking at primarily at the rational choice theory because that's what makes most sense to me, because when a person decides to
commit a crime, they're making a rational choice. They're looking at the entire situation and they're weighing risk versus reward. They're saying, what's my risk if I try to break into this home? If I try to rob this person? What is my risk? What's my chances of getting away with it? And also what's the reward? Is there something that I can see or I feel is going to be worth my while? Is there do I know that
this person has money? Do I know that there's an expensive car that I can get, there's expensive jewelry in the home, or the person's carrying some expensive items on them. These are all things that the criminal weighs before making that rational choice.
Right, So they're definitely thinking. So the criminal is of weighing all of these probabilities before whatever crime. It could be burglary, rape, anything, and that's really your targeting probability. So how does the victim come out on top in the situations where this person is thinking about committing a crime.
If we're talking about the because I break down the book into basically two main categories, the place and the person. And with the place, I mean we could you could really go on and write book after book after book on different types of environments and places. I focus heavily on residential home and the crime of burglary, and it's with the place like that, it's a matter of hardening targets, understanding where your vulnerabilities might lie, and trying to decrease
those vulnerabilities. There's a concept that runs throughout crime prevention, especially when we're talking about issues like burglary septet crime prevention through environmental design, where how the built environment can either increase or decrease the chances of having a crime occur. Things like is the UH is the area or the
home is there maximum visibility? Or maybe there's all kinds of tree, shrubbery bushes that would make it easy for a criminal or burglar to hide themselves while they're trying to break in UH. Again, it's how the how the the the physical environment appeals or doesn't appeal to a criminal goes into that rational choice.
Right, So you can definitely take steps to minimize burglar reaes. And also there was it was interesting something I learned about this is there was research into how a predator or a criminal selects victims and there's certain things you can do to minimize your risk. Even walking down the street.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
It was a very I found it a very interesting study done a good number of years ago in New York City where there was and it was a big study. I think there was over one hundred people who were a survey. And I say people because you have to look at the experts in the field, and it may seem weird, but the experts in victimology are the criminals. The people are selecting victims, and the researchers studied the responses of criminal, violent criminals, by the way, too, people
have committed robberies, rapes, assaults. And they showed them videos of people just walking down Manhattan streets, and what they found, they were very fascinated by that. It wasn't their choices. They were asking them, by the way, I'm leaning this out, asking them point out people who you might be prone to say that's a person going to look at as a victim, just from seeing them walking in the video. And they found that the choices were very consistent and
it wasn't based on gender, age, race. It was based on things like you know what did how was the person walking was the person walking with a very kind of a weird gate about them. Did they look to be exploitable? Were they were they walking like they didn't know that where they knew where they were going, that they didn't look athletic, they didn't look they weren't walking with their shoulders back, they were shuffling their feet, they were you know it just there's a term called exploitability.
People that walk kind of in a very timid fashion, looks like they're not aware of their surroundings. They appear to be more exploitable as opposed to someone who's walking at a fast a steady shoulders back, you know, walking the walklets say, making it look like they're very confident in what they're doing and where they're going.
Yeah, I found that very interesting. So the criminals were taking nonverbal cues or signals from each person and they just like it was almost like likening it to the serengetti, where you know, they're looking for the weakest member of whatever heard that is like the slowest, most distracted. So I think that's a warning to everybody, particularly as things become more the streets are getting mean or meaner, particularly
in New York City. It's something to think about. And also, like the submissiveness is something that they keyed into as well.
Right, yeah, it again it comes out if a person who now there's now again there's a fine line to be drawn here because if somebody has a gunpointed to their their head and they're being demanded that they candle over the wallet, usually the best choice is going to be to submit to that and turn over that property
and then get out of there. But again, but when making that choice, somebody who they're see, the criminal is making that decision of saying who they think they can best control, who they think will submit easily to them, and based on these physical characteristics, they're making that choice because just like we said, how the the lion or whatever wild animal or predator is going to pick the weakest or the slowest in the herd. The criminal is
not looking for the toughest time. They're not looking for the who will give me the best battle. They're looking for the easiest way for the best reward.
Right. And I think that's kind of like goes back to your targeting. You know, your your rational choice theory is like, well, who's this person vulnerable or what's the risk? And I mean you also kind of go into not just the individual, but the situation. You talk about a lot of residential burglaries, but also what to do kind of and large scale events or situations that may not be ordinary. Can you talk about how to minimize risk in those environments that A.
Lot of that comes down to this term situational awareness, which is a very fancy term for just understanding and knowing what's going on around you and when you're going. It can be difficult when you're going to a one off type of event, you're going to a concert, you're going to a stadium, a sporting event, you're going to some gathering where you've never been before and you don't
plan on being back there again. It can be difficult, but again it's important that you do things like recognize first how many people do you understand are supposed to be at this event? Have you checked out social media beforehand to see is there any buzz about protest taking place? Anything like that? Out of the ordinary you are you able to get and check out online the layout of the location, or once you get there, are you identifying
where you are, where are your potential exits? Anytime you go someplace, you should always identify from where you're standing or where you're sitting you should identify the nearest exit and then the next one. You should always have this mindset of saying, Okay, I'm in my seat. If something happened right now and I had to get out of here quickly, I would go over there to the left, And if there was I was unable to get to there, I know I would go to the right to that
exit I see over there. That should be something that's thought out before the crisis happens and you're trying to make this decision out of the blue.
Right, And I mean you think you look back at some of these events, whether it's kind of like the terrorist attacks in Paris or the shootings in Las Vegas, like some of the people the situation, they just had zero situational awareness. They were not prepped and not in the right mind space to you know, effectively respond to those situations. And uh so knowing those things out, I
mean you also talk about kinesics. Can you tell you know, you talk about the marine combat profilers use on battlefield. I think that's important in some ways just to think about when you expound on that.
Yeah, there's again, there's there's there's like the this is kind of like the study of uh, you know, the physical relationships between people. I'm not talking about uh you know, whether a person is a friend or a close friend or a relative, But it's talking about the uh you know, the relationship of one person to another physically, how close a person is, what type of physical actions a person
is taking. It's it can tell a lot when you know, when you were able to recognize something that might be out of the ordinary based on that person's proximity to you or other people, and or based on the specific actions that a person might be taken. Again, it's it's all comes down to being aware of of what's going on around.
You, right. And you also kind of also talk about and I think that this is a recent potential now that what's kind of happening in the world is that we have to recognize situations where there could be terrorism. Can you explain what your approach is if somebody's in that situation?
Well, you're right. Unfortunately, it is a fact of life that you have to be aware that you know, not only do you have to be aware that you could be victimized by one single gunman who wants your wallet, but you could be victimized by somebody who's looking to you know, kill or name as many people as possible.
And that's why again it's a special important in a crowd setting that you understand where you are and you're looking for any anomalies taking place, because just having a couple of seconds of warning before everybody else does might be the difference between life and death. And again, knowing the layout, knowing the exits and look, see there's a
there's a baseline for behavior in any environment. Uh, if you're in some type of a restaurant, you know, the baseline is normally going to be people who are just quietly sitting, eating, drinking, having quiet conversations. If you're at a rock concert, the baseline's a little different. There's loud music, there's screaming, there's shouting. But if you're at that restaurant and they're screaming and shouting, that's an anomaly, that's that's
not the baseline for normal behavior in that location. So understanding what the baseline is for your location, for your environment, and reacting to situations that go against that baseline of normal behavior and at least preparing yourself for some type of an action, whether it's fleeing or whether it's fighting or whether it's hiding, is could be crucial, right, And.
I think you mentioned a Carnegie Mellon study that said the more threat is expected, the more likely it is to be detected. So if you're expecting it, you can detect it. What I mean you also kind of address trying to avoid revictimizations, so not just in a burglary, but an individual setting. What are your tips on avoiding or if somebody experiences a crime, what to do next?
Well, if you mean to avoid it again.
Or I mean I think let's see it's yeah.
Yeah, Well that gets into understanding learning from mistakes or learning from even if it's not necessarily a mistake, learning from what happened, if if it's if it's act, if you're victimized from your location, let's say your house was burglarized, well then you know And that's something important too, because studies have shown that just because you're burglarized once, it
doesn't mean you're off the hook. There's actually more chance that you're going to be burglarized again once you're burglarized the first time. So understanding that if it was because of the fact that that person got in through a weak lock, Well, you got to harden that that environment. You got to get a better lock. If if they got in because they were you were away for a week and you're mail built up there and it showed them there was nobody home, then you got to make
sure that you're showing those signs. You're not showing signs of that of that home not being occupied for an extended period of time. You know what whatever contributed and whatever you think contributed to that crime, whether it be physical or whether it be something you didn't do, you got to.
Correct that, right and you actually like to avoid Burley. Do you kind of have some advice on kind of almost playing the burglar? Right?
Yeah, you should go around and look and see. Okay, if I if I was looking to get in here right now and I couldn't help how it would be my best way to get in without being detected. Do I you know, if I go into my if there's a side entrance to a gate next to my house and I go into the backyard, do I have a fence up right now? That's that's you can't see through
and nobody could see me from the street. Would I be able to work on this window or this door where none of my neighbors could see, nobody from the street could see. Or basically unless unless somebody came out of my house and looked at that specific spot, no one would notice me. Or you know, do I have
lighting that's good? Do I have Do I have fields of natural surveillance that that some who would be trying to get through a back door or a window, if they were going to be there for five to ten minutes, they'd be open to anybody that happened to be passing by. Or do I have too many shrubs or bushes or trees that would block their deir view? Again? Do I have am I able to push through to push through a crumy lock that I have on my door myself?
Again understanding you know, basically doing your own security survey in LUA where I should point this out too. Many many police departments throughout the country have programs crime prevention programs where individuals can contact a crime prevention officer or a crime prevention unit and they will send an officer there that actually will do this survey, this type of survey to show you where your vulnerabilities lie.
Wow, I didn't know that, And like, do you talk about like all kinds of things you can do to become less vulnerable. You kind of say, like women could get a dog. One of the interesting thing was like one of the criminals said if he saw a pair of construction boots outside of a house, he would just keep going if he was a record rapist. So like any woman should just put a size thirteen pair of shoes in front of their in front of their door, just to leave it there. I thought that was interesting.
Yeah, I mean anything that that that's giving anything that is giving a signal that there may be occupancy. And in this case, if they're if they're showing that, you know, I mean you could go crazy with this hang boxing
gloves outside or something. Uh you know, but but uh, you know the idea of showing occupancy, whether it be with boots like that, or whether it be with some type of timer for lights going on and off or the timer for the TV going on and so that there's noise coming from inside, because that again, that gets back to the rational choice. A burglar doesn't want to incal burglar. If somebody's looking to attack somebody, that's a
different story. But a burglar is not to find someone in there that's a the terrent if they think that somebody is actually in the.
Residence, right, and you actually advocate for being like one room in the house or the place to be kind of a safe safe room, like just in case, right.
Yeah, that there's there's actually I mean there's there's a formal science behind that, and unfortunately a lot of people wouldn't have the means. I mean, if you have a large house that's uh, you know, almost considered like a mansion, I mean, you could actually devote a room. And there's some of them on some of these homes are designed that all right, here's your here's your three or four or five bedrooms, here's your living room, and by the way,
here's your safe room. This is this is exclusively designed for that where if someone was in your house, you running here and you lock that door and you're safe in there. But unless you have the means for something like that, again, knowing that you know you have some place in your house that would probably be the best
place for you to secure yourself. Or again, just like at the event, if you know that someone is coming in through your side window, that you know the best thing for you is to go out the front door or the back door, you know, knowing where you're gonna go in in the event that that that that situation presents itself.
Yeah, it's almost like the the more vulnerable victims aren't aware and they're not like prepped to move into action. It seems like that's a common theme in all of those and all whether it's a burglary or rape. Like I think he wrote that even some women who have a tendency or who I think it was the the stats where the woman couldn't or the women who were raped did not respond to nonverbal communication as the ones who who weren't so like they didn't pick up on cues.
Correct and and you know, and again and some of these things, you know, be very difficult practice on. But then but there are some things that just in general victimization where you started mentioning before, it's very important because many times the reason why people do get attacked by surprise, people do get burglarized successfully is because the events never happened before, and it's really not something that is within
a person's their own personal realm of possibility. They don't think this is going to happen, So when they're walking down the street, and they might actually pick up some kind of cues regarding the actions of somebody who's walking parallel across the street with them, or coming towards them, or seems to be following behind them. Because of the fact that that person might be a predator is the furthest thing from their mind and has never happened before.
They don't plan for that. They don't think about, oh, what am I going to do now if this person does turn out to be somebody who has bad intentions for me?
Right, and then then they're you know, they get to the point where they have to ask the question why me? But a lot of that prethinking before you become a victim, I think is vitally important. What would be your advice for kind of today's situation considering kind of uh, maybe the breakdown of policing is not as as you know, firm maybe as was in the past, and there seems to be more criminality and urban environments. What are your what's your outlook or advice?
My advice is to always stay aware. Again, if there was probably the most important, let's say, theme I think that I have in the book is this concept of situational awareness of always knowing what's going on around you. You know, being aware, like I said, of a potential threat even seconds before you know it occurs, can be can be crucial. And then observation skills with that of a important observing as much as possible and practicing observation skills.
It's you know, understanding there's a There's another concept that
works against a person. That's called inattentional blindness, where it's a phenomenon where you could be you could have something or someone, a scene could be completely within within your field of view, but your brain doesn't really process it, you don't really see it, and it can be and that has to do it because it's it's usually such an unexpected event that that works against in the field like law enforcement and security, because someone's not expecting someone
to attack their facility. That many times the threat is not even seen until the attack occurs or the threatening object is is actually discovered. So again, understanding that there are limits that a lot of times people play on themselves and repetition and planning, even if it's just mental preparation, even if it's just thinking about you know, I got to be aware of the you know, potential problems going
out at night at this location. I'm thinking about what potentially could happen and what I would do, what actions I would take.
Yeah, And it seems like you can just see so many terrible stories about people making mistakes like drinking a you know, mickey at a bar, or getting into the wrong uber and he just goes back to that same thing. They're not situationally aware, they don't expect so I think if they particularly if they read your book, they can learn all these instances where they should be more aware. They should be making decisions that, you know, not go the same route at the same time every night and
kind of mix things up. I mean, there's a lot of little things that add up that make you less vulnerable as a victim. Is there anything I miss or anything you'd like to add before we wrap up the interview.
No, I think the only thing I would say in caution is that it's all about also about playing percentages. You know, you don't want to get people the wrong idea. You can be as situationally aware and as alert and observant as is humanly possible, and you could still end up being a victim. But it's again, it's playing percentages. You want to make it as least likely as possible
that you're going to have a problem. And there are these things that you can do that will push those percentages into your favor in your.
Favor right, And do you have social media or working people reach out to you email or website?
They could reach out to me at I do have on Facebook. I have a page Robert Brian Author. I also have my own Facebook that's just as Robert L. Brian and I have an Amazon page. They could reach out with me, which again, if they just use Robert L. Brian, they'd be able to get to my page on on Amazon.
And is that the best place to buy your books is Amazon?
Amazon?
And uh again, the title of the book is Crime Staying Safe, Quick and Easy Ways to Avoid becoming a crime victim by Robert L. Bryant. Robert Brant, thank you.
So much, Oh, thank you so much for having me.
All Right, that's done. Yeah, that was great