All right, Hi, this is William Ramsey. Welcome to William Ramsey Investigates on today's show. I'm a very special guest, a returning guest. We spoke back in August about his book titled Crime Quick and Easy Ways to Avoid Becoming a Victim. His name is Robert L. Brian. But today we're going to talk about another book. The title of that book is Sea Case, An Unlikely Journey from transit cop to Internal Affairs Bureau squad Commander. And again the
author's name is Robert L. Brian. Really interesting book traces his career and some of the really interesting things he did for the IAB or the Internal Affairs Bureaus. So I'm delighted to have them back. So Robert Brian, welcome to the show.
How are you very good? Thank you for having me.
Aweimer, thanks for returning. For people who may not have heard our earlier interview. Can you talk kind of a little bit about your career and what led you to write this book Sea Case.
Well, I've spent my entire adult life in law enforcement and security. I had started off after leaving college. After graduating college, I spent a couple of years on the Mexican Border as a Border patrol agent. And then I'm a lifelong New Yorker, so that was the only time I was out of New York City. And when I returned, I joined the New York City Transit Police Department. I did twenty years there, retiring at the rank of captain.
And it's during the time after I become a lieutenant is when I went into two years with the Internal Affairs Bureau.
Gotcha, and they kind of had this assignment where they make you become an IAB member, right.
Yeah, that was that was an interesting thing at the time because this was right after. As I said, I was a member of the New York City Transit Police. New York City for most of the twentieth century, before until when the other departments began to exist, had three separate police departments. You always had since the middle of the eighteen hundreds had the New York City Police Department.
But in the nineteen thirties and then shortly thereafter, the New York City Transit Police and the New York City Housing Police came into existence. So Transit dealt with policing the subways, while housing was the New York City housing projects. So in nineteen ninety five, however, there was a merger which brought all three departments together under the New York City Police Department. So in nineteen ninety five when its
merger occurred, I was a lieutenant. So at that time I was working in what became a patrol command in the Transit Bureau, and I had learned that the New York City Police Department had a career path or sergeant's lieutenants, where you would apply for an investigative position. With the caveat that was known, I went into this with my
eyes wide open. This wasn't a surprise, was that anybody who was accepted into this, Before you could get into either the Organized Crime Control Bureau or the Detective Bureau, you would have to do two years drafted into the Internal Affairs Bureau.
Right, So had you had to go into the separate bureau that investigates the other police. Can you talk about what it was like just beginning in that. I think you went in as a in an authoritative position, right, you had to kind of manage other people who were already there.
Right, Yeah, when it is a lieutenant and the basic the basic formation of an IAB group, they're called groups. I was in Group twenty seven. Is there are several teams of investigators that are headed by a lieutenant who's the commander of that squad. So when I went in as a lieutenant, I became the commander of one of
the squads within Group twenty seven. And it was something that was very, very challenging because I was coming from Not only was I coming from just several months earlier being with the Transit Police Department, but my time had been on patrol, and I had done some time as a police Academy instructor also, but I really had no real investigative background, and now I was thrown into a position where I was managing a squad of seasoned sergeants
and detectives who had worked many years in detective squads, in an arcotics division, in organized crime control. So that was a very challenging assignment.
So they had all these experiences. So some of these other people were not on the same career path as you, right, they came from other departments or got assigned there from other places.
Is that corupt Well no, pretty much everybody got a sign in the same way. But like, for instance, the sergeants that I had in my squad. One of them had been a detective in what's known as OCID, the Organized Crime Investigation Division, which is it's an elite investigative unit. Now, when he made sergeant, he is, you know, not going back to OCID. He's going out on patrol and he has to let anybody else he has to put in now for this career path as a sergeant or lieutenant.
So when he gets selected, he has to do his two years and ieb just like anybody else. So the thing was, though, I was kind of unique in that a lot of other people that were going through their two years were coming with a background as detectives before they got promoted to sergeant.
I see, so you had done the transit and they had come from a different kind of angle. But I mean, you've talked to some of these other guys that were very experienced interrogators and actives, and so you kind of had to make you could basically kind of were thrown into it like sinker swim right.
Yeah, And that's where I had to write from the start, I had to make a decision that if this was going to work for me, I certainly couldn't go in
there and try to fake that. I, you know, I knew it all because I knew very little and especially compared with the knowledge that was in my team, And so I tried to manage the actual logistics of the unit, the case assignments, keeping up with you know, how a case was going, and assignments and closing cases, while I learned from them actually how to run an investigation.
So you had to do that. And I think you said, like each person in your twenty of the squad had almost twenty five files that were working on concurret the Can you talk about what it was like kind of juggling all those different investigations and then working within the group.
I liked to Maya, my first commanding officer of the group, the way he put it in the way that I thought about it, because this kind of re you know, I kind of grabbed onto this and said it makes sense. He said, this case manage him and is like a murray go round. He said, when when cases come in, they get assigned, they get thrown onto the murray go round, and now your job is to try to pull them off the murray go around as quickly as you can
thoroughly investigate him. But don't keep them on that Murray go round for any any minute longer than they have to be right.
And I think you said that when you came in, you assigned somebody a case, and he said you should take this case because this will give you as some experience. Right.
Yeah. The first case that I went out on that I was with was that was one of the more interesting ones because it actually and again I had to learn this also that many times there were cases that when you started getting used to it, that you just kind of knew by the allegation you had to be objective with it, but you kind of knew that it was going to go no place either either it was obvious that there was nothing there, or even if there was something there, there was no way you were going
to be able to prove it one way or the other. But sometimes, like with this first case, there was a live complainant. There was a gentleman who was an account accountant, and he sounded very credible on the phone, and when I was interviewing him on the phone, his allegation was that there was a NYPD sergeant who had broken into his apartment and was stealing possessions property out of his apartment that he had done this on more than one occasion.
Now that's a very bizarre allegation to begin with, but he sounded very credible. And it even became more bizarre are when I went with a sergeant to interview him and he was in a high rise apartment building in Queens. It was it was a nice building, a nice building, and he was up on one of the like i'll say, maybe the fifteen sixteenth or one of the higher flaws. And when he led us in again, everything was making sense.
As far as he was articulate, he was lucid, He you know, was very you know, by the numbers and talking about what had happened. But as I'm talking to him, and I'm trying to figure out because it looks like this is an apartment, there's only the front door to get into the apartment, and there's a balcony, and the balcony is fifteen floors up, and I can't grasp how this sergeant would be getting in if he wasn't coming through the door. So I finally get around to really
pressing them on. I said, sir, I'm not really grasping this if he's not coming in through the door. I said, he's coming into that fifteenth floor balcony here, and he just, matter of fact he says no. And I said, you're really losing me here. If he's not coming into the door, he's not coming in through the through the balcony, how is he getting in here? And he just very matter of factly said, oh no, he comes in my dreams. And at that point I was said, okay, you know,
let's wrap this up. But my partner at the time, the sergeant, he was going to begin now because he wanted to have some fun with this as far as you know, asking him what does he do, what does he say? And uh, And the guy was very seriously answering all these questions, you know, he h oh, yeah.
He sometimes he curses at me. Sometimes he says, I see your underwear, and so it just you know, that's that was the opening case where I realized that, you know, not everything here is going to be a crime of the century, and probably, like most of them, was gonna end up being nothing right.
And I mean, you're kind of in that thing where you're in to getting the other police officers, what is the opinion of the internal affairs while you were there amongst you know, the blue line or so to speak.
Well, that's why, that's why, in my opinion, that the MYP went to this draft system for for sergeants and lieutenants because you know, naturally i AB is not a very popular assignment, not a very popular unit within the police department because you know, whether it's in police culture or any other culture. I mean, let's face it, one of the worst things you can be perceived as is
a rat. And you know, of course, if you have any type of logical thought process, you have to understand that any police department, especially a department as large as the m YPD, needs some kind of an internal investigation branch too, because any time, I mean, I'm I'm a big fan of cops. I you know, I don't think
there's a more noble profession on the planet. But if you put at the time there was forty thousand people in the MYPD, you put forty thousand apples in any in barrels, you're going to find a whole bunch of rotten ones, certainly not going to be near the majority. Same thing. The you know, probably well over ninety five ninety eight percent of cops are hard working doing the
right thing. But you do have the police departments in microcosm of society, you know, so just like you have murderers, drug abusers, drug sellers, uh, you know, domestic abusers in society, you're going to find them in a department with forty thousand people. So but still there wasn't will always be
a stigma attached to working internal affairs. And I think that draft system helped to fight that stigma a bit because you know, people realized after a while that when you were in IAB, you were going through that two year draft.
Right, so you weren't in a position of total antagonism. You're in a short short you know, kind of doing your duty in getting out. And you I mean you had so many different cases too, like you had the full Swath or a murder, to insurance fraud to criminality shot shoplifty. Can you talk about that? I mean one of the introductory chapters is the guy who had some kind of interesting insurance claims. Can you talk about like some of your investigations that one in particular.
Yeah, that one, you know, and these when I said before that I spoke to the claimant on the phone. We're not just answering phones that some somebody's got a number and calls in a complaint. Everything in IB works
through what's called the Action desk. Whether it comes in because a police officer in the field is given the allegation from a member of the public and he or she reports it, whether it whether it comes from a letter to the Police Commission, however the complaint comes in, it works its way to the Action Desk, which was
a unit in IB headquarters. Then they assess it, They assess what the complaint is, and then they send it out as they seem appropriate, whether it as they deem appropriate, whether it should be sent out as which is the title of the book, as a c case, which is a corruption case, which is the you know, the bread and butter of ID investigations. That's something which if it was proven, could be a crime or would be a crime. There were less serious ones that were m cases, some
type of misconduct. There could be complaints from other departments, other city agencies that were they never just told, never told the complaint, we don't take this. They always took the complaint and referred it as necessary. But in this case, the the they call them a log. We'd get logs that would come in say you know uh C number C one four, five to eight, and it says gives
the information on it. And in this case, there was an insurance investigator had called made a complaint to actually to i AB direct that this police officer had made a really absurd insurance claim. And when you looked into it, it really was because it ended up the uh it started off with was a fender bender, and all the documentation it was an off duty fender bender, by the way, and all the documentation from the accident report, and it was in Narsau County, not New York City. Everything was
reflective as an actual just offender vender somebody. It really was an accident. This elderly gentleman had just kind of rolled into the subject at a when he was stopped at a light, and he just rolled into him at like maybe two miles an hour. But he must have seen some had an opportunity here, and he he went to the He didn't go to the hospital with ambulance.
He ended up going by himself. And when they tried to kind of throw him out after they said, okay, we'll treat you here, but there's nothing wrong with you. He then stayed in the waiting room all night. This is I got this from interviewing a nurse and emergency
room nurse. So because he wanted to be able to say, he spent the night in the hospital, and then he went and with his insurance company, he put in this claim that just went on and on that he had in the accident, he had broken he was wearing some collectible Superman watch that was worth a lot of money, he had some rare tea set from Japan, and the trunk even when as far as they had a leg of lamb that got destroyed that was in the car. There was a whole long list. And that was just
the beginning. Because then he put in a claim that he because of his back being injured, he had to get permanent in the wall air conditioning unit put in his house because he could no longer play take them in and out of the window. He needed to get a gardening landscaping services. He couldn't do it himself. He had to get a home health aid to bathe them several times a week. And the kude g raw was that he had claimed and was what was the most
monetary damages he was he was or compensation. He was seeking was because he said that he could no longer perform sexually, and he had a notarized statement from his fiance attesting to that. But then as you as you just start covering bases on how to handle things, you start names that are involved in it. You start you're running those names to see if they come up anywhere. And two of the names showed up as police department employees.
The person that he had listed as the home health aid and the person he had listed as his fiance. They both, you know, miraculously, both of them also worked in the same unit that he worked in. And it didn't take too long to determine that the home health aid who really did have this is why he probably did it. She really did have a New York State home health aid license, but she hadn't gone and done
any kind of spongebaiting form. He had just she she gave a statement that said that he had just said, you know, there's some money in it for you if you just say that, you know, a couple of times a week, you do have to perform this for me. And it turned out that the fiance was not a fiance, It was just somebody that worked in the same office and the same thing. He had told her, Look, I'll give you X amount of dollars if you say that we were engaged and that I can't perform anymore. And
they both folded very very quickly. We did what is called in the investigative jog and has offered them clean for a day. Picked him up on the street and just said, look, you don't have to come with us, you don't have to talk with us, but it'll be in your best interest and this is a one time deal. If you do not talk to us now, you're not going to get this opportunity again. And they both talked, and they both threw him under the bus really really quickly.
And then he was yeah, he was a homosexual too, so.
Like yes, So the whole idea this was a female that you know, he was saying, was the That was the first thing she did. She left and she said, fiance, he's he's gay.
And so what I mean in your book you kind of show what the outcomes are. So in some of these cases, the DA doesn't always prosecute, but there are administrative steps that are taken.
Right, Yeah, there's really two there's two steps in these processes that could be criminal, you go to within the District Attorney's office, and in this case in Queens, there's a publicly called a Public Integrity Department. They're the ones that actually work on cases that have anything to do with whether it's prosecuting a police officer or any other
type of a of a government worker. So you always have to go through them and keep them abreast and then when you finally get because you can't move administratively if there could possibly be a criminal aspect of it, you can't do those at the same time. So what happens is once if there could be criminal you go
there first, and once the DA makes a decision. In this case, for whatever reason, the DA decided now we don't want this, We're not going to do it, then we go departmentally, and departmentally he got fired, which is which is not an easy thing in in the police department. You have to you have to do something pretty heavy to actually lose your job.
He got fired, right because there's other things you said, like there's administer, there's misdemeanor m cases or other things were the police could take other steps, right, So not necessarily environment So unfortunately for him, he crossed that line. And you had other cases. You talk about the one guy who's a police officer who was had some suspicious connections to a chop shop. Can you kind of explain what that is and what he did and why you investigated him.
Okay, The allegation that came in was that this particular police officer had ties with an auto body shop that had organized crime connections and it was in looking at it wasn't known chop shop that it had several complaints
in auto crime. Now, a chop shop is a on face value, it's in autobody shop, but in reality it's actually taking in stolen cars, chopping them up for parts, and then they're getting rid of the parts and it makes it appear as if the car never existed and they have some kind of an avenue to actually dispose of or sell these parts, you know in the black market of auto parts.
And some of those parts are super expensive. They need some care. They were just taking rear view mirrors from Mercedes Benzes, and each one of those mirrors is like on the street, my value was like crazy three hundred and fifty bucks or something like that.
So yeah, in my area right now, I don't know if there's just nationwide or just New York wise, there's a big thing now with catalytic converters getting taken out of cars. You know, it's always going to be the you know, the auto parts industry is always going to
have this criminal aspect to it. But in this case, you know, it's one of these things where you kind of hope you can get this off the murray go around quickly, and because it's very vague as far as that allegation goes, so the easy way to do this is to just watch that that shop for a little while and see if this guy ever shows up there. And the problem was, after a couple of days, sure enough, he does show up there, and he does spend several
hours in there and actually with sending. So actually I was the one that went inside and made like I was looking for some kind of servicing for my car or repair work, and it did appear that he was actually more than just some kind of a customer in there. So now you know, we have to do this full
blown with surveillance and seeing what he does. And that's where it got a little more complicated because what didn't make sense and still today day doesn't make sense is in doing the surveillance of him, it turned out that he was going to Laguardier Airport a lot, a lot, to the point that and we would always lose him in there and we're wondering where he was going, And it turned out he was actually working for one of the airlines in there. It's working as a baggage handler.
And so now you have the question, if you know, if this guy is hooked up with OC, what's he doing hauling bags at the airport. But we ended up in all the surveillance of this guy, he was, you know, on face Valley who was a happily married family man. But everything that we saw during our surveillances you do is call a lifestyle and you see where he goes, what he does, who he associates with. One of the profiles that was coming through loud and clear is that
he was a real ladies man. So what we decided to do to bring this to a head was that since he always parked this truck in the same place, which was a public, public municipal parking field at the airport, we tried to create a situation where there would be a female in distress that he could come to our aid. So we were able to get a rental car parked right next to his truck and we disabled that car. There was a just a switch in the trunk that disabled the gas. I think it's I think it's there.
I'm no car guy, but I think it's if there was ever an accident and impact and it would stop the gas from flowing and you'd have less chance of some kind of a fire. But if you just flipped the switch, it would stop the gas frow. So naturally, if you'll start trying to start the car, it's not
going to turn over. So we had an undercover. There was a unit with an IEB that did just add supplied undercovers for investigations, and he had a female undercover that was wired up so we could we were sitting maybe one hundred yards away in the lot, we could hear the conversation going on, and when he returned from his shift, we were going to have her there trying to start the car and unable to start the car and standing with the hood up and looking very confused
and hoping he would actually come to a raid and then that his instincts would go from there and it worked. It worked a little too well that first night, because after about five minutes of conversation, he actually offered to take the car back to his shop. And one of the other things I'm leaving out is she was throwing in there in the windows, like this car has been nothing but a money pick for me. I wish I
could get rid of it. And he actually offered to take it back to his shop, and the sergeant that I'm sitting with when we're listening there is like, Okay, you know it's your call. What are we going to do?
Because that's the one thing I hadn't planned on. I hadn't planned on him offering to take it right there, because now I have visions of we rented this car, we don't tell the rental company what we're using it for, and I have visions of now, first off, that he's going to have to be taking this undercover inside this shop, and I wasn't comfortable with that. And secondly, now by the time I got a warrant and got in there,
that car could be in a million pieces. And so we had a thing that worked out where we had a cell phone with the sergeant calling her up and playing the role of a brother and saying so she could say, first off, he was able to tell him, no, don't go through with this, and tell him that your brother's coming to pick you up here now, so it's okay. But he took her phone number, and we were hoping he was gonna call her, and sure enough he did, so they went out on a date, and that we
had the whole thing again wired up. We have teams in different restaurants in this area because we told her, look, if he wants to bounce from one restaurant to another, make sure that you go from here to here so we can always keep eyes on you. And she was wired up, and we got a lot of interesting stuff
on the on that on that recording. You know, he had excuse me that he had he had said that in the there that he had he had did have some type of an interest in that uh in that water body shop, and that one of the first week or two that he was in there, that some guys came in and said, where your new uh, you know, waste disposal company, And he said, I don't need a
waste disposal company. I came in and took this over and there's a waste disposal company here, and he said, I don't think you're reading us where you're a new waste disposal company. And he said, get out of here. I don't need you. And he said about an hour later, he's in the office, it's at night, and all of a sudden, his front window gets sprayed with automatic gunfire, machine gun fire, which he's hitting the floor and hoping
he doesn't get hit. You know. So I had a lot of stuff on on the on the on the audio recording like that, and you know it was you know, he had a lot of similar statements like that too. But it ended up where he he wouldn't really commit to taking the car that night because he was more focused on his date and it was starting to get She even called from the bathroom once that she's getting uncomfortable. It's starting to get very physical. So I knew I had to I had to cut this off and try
to do it another day. And she was able to get away from him that night without any damage, let's say, but it just never She tried a few times to get an the day, but I don't know what he was if he was getting raised up or anything, but never got it going. Again to the point where I said, now it's got to get off the murray ground here. So we closed this by just bringing him in and they called it GEO fifteen, where you officially interrogate the individual,
you know, for departmental purposes. And I'm also leaving one thing important now, all the surveillances we did at the airport where we could see him out working hauling bags
on the tarmac, and this was during the summer. It must have been over one hundred degrees out in that tarmac and over the couple of week we did this surveillance, he was out sick from the police department at the time, which that's actually a pretty heavy departmental violation where you know, you're not only are you working a job, the second job that you don't have authorization for where you need if you're going to work a part time job, you
need to get departmental authorization for it, which he didn't have and he was outsick working that job. So you know, that was another issue that actually sunk him more because when we interrogated him, we did that official interview, I got to give him credit because he was one of these guys that was really cool as a cucumber. Like when when I actually played the tape for him where he's talking about the machine gun fire, he just sat back and he said, Lieutenant, what do you want me
to say? You know, I like to impress girls. I go out with him. Sometimes I tell him I'm a cowboy. Sometimes I tell him I'm a I'm involved with organized crime? Is I'm a bullshit artist with the girls. What do you want me to say? You know? So it was actually it was a pretty good answer actually because he showed up with his attorney too, right, So I mean, yeah, yeah, union attorney with that. Yeah, but he was in trouble
actually departmentally, it was the same thing. He he couldn't he had no way out of that being out sick, and he ended up also he got fired with that because that was that was a kind of a heavy duty thing with being out sick with on an open working another job for several weeks out sick.
With no authorization, right, So I mean, being sick you have to like fill out forms and things like that.
You actually have to with the police department. You actually have to stay in your house because since since the NYPD has unlimited sick you don't have twelve six days, twenty six days. That's the beauty of it. You could be sick for months and months and you just have unlimited sick But there are a lot of controls on that.
So when you call out sick, you have to stay in your primary residence and you have to call a sick desk to get permission to actually leave, to go to a drug store to go get some to eat. And there are actually investigators sergeants that go out and visit. They'll knock on a door to make sure the person's home. So this sick leave is a big thing with the with the police department.
Wow, really interesting, And there's other controls, like you're also doing these integrity testings to see if these people are engaging corrupt behavior. Can you talk about some of the things that you did kind of to see if police officers remained on the up and up.
Yeah, that was that was kind of a There were a lot there was. I mean, this iab experience for two years. For me, it was the greatest learning experience I had on the job during the twenty years. But there was some distasteful parts to it, and this integrity
testing was one because the main thing was. It took up time from trying to work these cases because you had to do I forget if it was one a month or a couple of months, but every team had to do these integrity tests where you would set up an artificial circumstance to try to see if the cop would do the right thing or the wrong thing, and it was sometimes it was very difficult to set things
things up. So we used to do what we called throwing a bag, where you'd have a lady's pocketbook and we had a lot of different props, and we'd throw like persons with identification, all kinds of things that would make it look like a lady's active pocketbook, and we'd
throw cash in there. And then we'd either let's say, have a have one of our guys who had rented a cab that would now pull over, get the attention of some cops either on patrol or in a vehicle or an R and P and say, hey, a lady a while back, I just noticed that she left this in the cab, Or call in an anonymous nine one one call for a very benign very you gotta be careful with this, couldn't be a serious you couldn't say there was a robbery in progress or something, but just
something like it may look like somebody's selling drugs in a park or something, something that's going to prompt a response, and then have you know, a bag sitting there. And you know, the one that I remember is because we tried to get away from just throwing the bag, because the CEO at the time was having a problem with that. Everything everybody was going out, all the teams were going out and just using handbags throwing bags. So we did
a little variation of it. We got some simulated narcotics pills in a bag just then we put them in a brown bag and put it in a next to a trash can in a public park in Cleans and then called in a job on nine to one one that you know, suspected drug deal and just we're gonna
you know, sit back. We had a surveillance van that was useless, and sit back and see what happens that you know, what should happen is the cops show up, they take the bag that has the pills and we have cash inside the bag also, they take it back and then a day later we go to the command and there should be what's called a voucher, a property clerk's invoice that shows that there were simulated narcotics and x amount of dollars that were vouchered, and in this case,
ultimately that happened. But there was while this call was out there there were a couple of more serious jobs that went over the air in this sector. A motor vehicle accident with injuries, which is natural, they're going to go to that first. So myself and the sergeant that I was with were in this surveillance van that was insanely hot inside of it and trying to hopefully, you know, that they were going to show up, you know, sometime soon.
And you know, during the time, he's doing all kinds of things to keep busy, you know, going back and forth in the van. And there it was in a park. There was somebody to pull up next to us, and since the van was sitting up higher, I could actually see out through this little peephole thing there that the guy was sitting there, older gentleman was sitting there. Looks
they just reading the paper. But at one point I also noticed that it looked like he took note of the fact that the van was brocking back and forth because he was just getting very antsy inside there and kind of moving back and forth. My partner was so finally, finally the cops show up. They go to where this report was for the trash can, they see the bag, they look inside, they take it, and they leave so
we can finally come out. They opened the door. We're drenched in sweat, and then as we are standing there, all of a sudden, this guy that was next to us, he backs out and goes to leave, and as he's leaving, he just looks at us and yells, you freaks. And it took a minute for me to understand what was going on there, and it was actually the sogeant my partner,
who started cracking up and got it. He said, this guy just thinks he goes he's sitting there and he's seeing this van rocking back and forth, and then he sees two sweatsiak guys compiling out of the side of the van. He says, he thinks we've been We've been sitting in this parks parking lot in there, having a good time with each other back there.
And it's funny, because you there are these funny moments all through this book, like you guys make you know, I have jokes for each other, and you can see the kind of camaraderie and things to do while you're doing the job. I think that comes through in the book. There's a lot more in the book too. I mean, you cover a murder case, shoplifting, all kinds of really different variety of different challenges. It was really interesting.
That was the thing with I why I said it was the greatest learning experience because you know, just like you have, like I said, at microcosms society, just like you have murders in society. Somewhere in the NYPD with forty thousand people, you've got a murderer there too, you know. And so one day, you know, we're working a murder case. The next day we're working a drug case, the next day we're working a fraud case. It ran the gamut of all these different investigations.
It's really fascinating. Like you heard the stories about the internal investigation groups, but this is really the insight. So I recommend people check this out. Where's the best place to get this book?
Robert Amazon and go on to my author page and just look up. Look up Robert O'Brien on Amazon and you'll find that book and my other books.
Yeah, tons of other books too. How many books have you written at this point.
I'm close to thirty right now. Wow.
Yeah, either it was a long list. And do you have like social media.
Or h I do have. I have a Facebook page Robert O'Brien, and I also have a group that I moderate police books. And I do have a website Robert Brian author.
Robert Brian author. If people want to reach out to you, they can do it through that website Robert Elbrian dot com. Really interesting book and conversation. Thanks so much for your time. Again, the title of the book is CCASE, An Unlikely Journey from Transit cop to Internal Affairs Bureau Squad Commander by Robert Lbrian And there's a lot more stories and things in there, so people take that step and go check out this book. So thanks so much for your time, Robert,
my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Take care,