This podcast is sponsored by Blue Diamond Garden Centres. Fill your garden with beauty and heritage with the National Trust Collection of bulbs seeds and plants specially created by Blue Diamond Garden Centres. Working together for the love of nature. Hello and welcome to the National Trust podcast. I'm Kate Martin, lead ranger at the National Trust. And today, I'm somewhere very different to my usual coastal workplace. I've come to London, 80% of the UK population now live in urban
homes where many have limited or no access to green areas. So how can we encourage nature to thrive in different ways? I'm off to meet a couple of people who can show me how to grow in unconventional urban spaces. LONDON UNDERGROUND ANNOUNCEMENT: The next station is Oxford Circus.
In November 2019, The Greater London Authority reported that London has the lowest levels of green space availability in all of the UK. Just 20% of London is made up of publicly accessible parks even though 47% of the city's land overall is classed as green space. LONDON UNDERGROUND ANNOUNCEMENT: Please stand clear of the doors. I'm on the underground train now heading to a London borough that can really see the evidence of inequality to access to green space, which is Kensington and Chelsea.
I'm going to meet activist, local resident and gardener Tayshan Hayden-Smith, who is trying to change all that. I've got off the tube and I am walking through Meanwhile, Gardens, I've been through all sorts of different landscapes. I've been through a skate park, more sort of wooded areas and now I'm somewhere different and this must be Tayshan - Hi, I'm Kate. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Hey Kate, welcome.
Thank you. This is just glorious. So where we are, I'm stood by beautiful ponds, surrounded by colourful bushes and trees, but also surrounded by high rise buildings. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Yeah. Well, this is the iconic Trellick Tower which overlooks this garden almost guards it in ways. And what's like really does stand out to me is the biodiversity of especially the trees in this space. You've got cherries, eucalyptus over there. You've got mimosa, a new thing to see at every corner really.
And so this area is called Meanwhile Gardens. So why Meanwhile? TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: So in the seventies, a gentleman called Jamie Mcculloch, I think he was just passing on Great Western Road and saw this derelict kind of unused, barren bit of land. And so he came in here and decided that he was gonna turn it into a beautiful garden for the community and he asked permission for the council to do something with it. In the meanwhile, hence the name Meanwhile Gardens and it's just
flourished since then. I'd like to think it's more than meanwhile, now. It certainly looks pretty well established to me. I don't think I'd think it was a meanwhile place. So, what's your involvement with this wonderful garden? TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: This is a space that I've cherished growing up. Often as a youngster, I'd be up to so much mischief in Meanwhile Gardens, whether it's kind of running through here or there's a skate park just down, down over there.
So I used to come with a few friends play a bit of football. But, yeah, as I've got older, I've come to really appreciate it for the colour, the character, the nature, the wildlife. And, I just think it's a really amazing sanctuary. You've got a railway track over there. You've got a busy road over there. You could probably hear the police sirens here and there, but actually within this space, all of that is forgotten. And that's just a rarity in inner city London.
It's incredibly peaceful. I mean, I am a country girl. So to me, you know, TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: You're back at home I am, it's beautiful. I mean, this is obviously something that's really important to you. Where does the sort of love, I suppose, gardening and the outdoors come from. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: My mum had a massive influence on my adoration for nature. My mum was terminally ill from when I was like 12-13 years old. I think that completely flipped the way that she saw life.
She had, she was a single mother of four of us. we lived in a council house and, you know, I think she really started to hone in on just how healing nature can be and it wouldn't be that mum sat us down at the table and went right. You're gonna have to understand how nature heals you and how it, no, it was just in the way that she acted in a way that she did things and how engaged she was with the natural environment.
Walking to school, she'd change her routes every time so that the routes were scenic and she would go, oh, you know, look at the beautiful bark on that tree. And she had this thing for bird song. She would ask us what the birds were saying, what, what were they singing today? Which kept us really engaged and connected. And at times, obviously, we would shrug it off and go, oh, I like no one cares about that. Leave us alone. But it really
has planted that seed. When I was growing up, my, my ambition was to be a footballer. And at about 14-15, I realized, OK, this is something that I could really make a career of. I mean by no means was I a premier league footballer. But I went through certain academies so played for Brentford, QQR, been at Wimbledon, had stints at Newcastle and then finally got my break in about 2015/2016 where I signed for a third division, Austrian club called FC Kitzbuhel.
Things had suddenly started to fall into place. So I was, you know, playing professional football and I was looking ahead to playing in the season after - I think we had one more game left. And I, I remember on the night of June the 14th, 2017, my phone, maybe at about midnight, started pinging off and I was thinking, you know, who's trying to get hold of me at this time,
you know what's going on. And it was my sister who'd sent a picture of quite a contained fire in Grenfell where my mum's place is literally in the shadow of Grenfell. So I had to get loads of other messages from loads of other people. And it was quickly realized that this fire was engulfing the Grenfell Tower, a place that I had kind of played in at the base of Grenfell Tower. There was a place called Green Pitch, which is a football pitch.
You catch me there every day. And so when I started to see images of, of the building in flames, you know, not knowing the impact of that, not knowing the consequence of that at the time, I just made a decision, I'm gonna book the first flight home. So I got back early in the morning of the 15th. It came back to absolute chaos. This still burning building with, with people running around trying to find their children,
trying to find their, their mothers, their friends. And so in those moments, people took to the streets in search for justice, for understanding and in search for solace. It was in those moments that nature came to my rescue. It all started with just picking up litter from this, this barren derelict patch of land. People would see me and they would come and join me and that would then create a softer access point to having
conversations. And there was something so unique about how nature allowed people to connect despite you know, their differences. It doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, your age, your culture, your background, your religion, this garden was welcoming to all. That, that epitomises Ladbroke Grove. You know, this was just the way that we were instinctively reacting to something so traumatic, something so tragic where 72
people had lost their lives. Nature just became the the healer for all. When people think of a community garden, they might not necessarily think of an open access area, they might think it's not really for them. So how important is it for you that people do recognize that this area is for anybody.
TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: There's these perceptions around who can be a gardener, who can be in nature that are really divisive and offensive and not so kind and, and I guess by existing in that space, I was breaking those barriers down, but I still felt a sense of oh like this doesn't feel familiar.
What will my friends think of me? How have I got from playing football to now, you know, planting flowers and it's just about building those bridges and connecting people in with these spaces so that they feel like they have a sense of place.
You know, if you think about someone, who's living in Trellick Tower who's in, like, let's say survival mode, you know, maybe there, you know, just trying to put food on the table, you know, what business do they have, you know, what time do they have in bringing their kids to this space or coming down to this space? Well, actually, we need to all work as a community collectively to try and create that capacity for people to engage a space
like this. To better their mental health, their physical health, their well being, you know, air pollution and having a say in that, having a say on wildlife and biodiversity and creating these corridors for pollinators and wildlife and insects to, to exist, you know, because it's all about coexistence and these spaces allow that. So we've got to see ourselves as part of the ecosystem rather than outside of it.
I think nature is a common language. There's something sort of primal in all of us, doesn't matter where you are, what your background is. You know, I think everybody feels moved in some way when you're out in a place such as this. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Nature is a right. It's not a luxury. It's just about making people feel comfortable in that. You may see concrete every day, but look at the tree as you walk past it,
look at its form, look at the leaves. It's just about engaging your, your senses really. You know, and I make the link between, like with my boys, we all grew up playing football in parks, using trees as goalposts and you know, your bent shot going into a bush and you have to wade through it.
All of that is access to nature. It's just about changing the way that we see it, the way that we think about it and every one of those experiences, no matter how big or small they're all so important, we all deserve safe healing, beautiful space. You know, because you're doing it on the ground, grassroots, you must see that direct impact it has on people's lives. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: I kind of see myself on the side of the
fence of the people that I'm trying to help. I live in a council flat with two young children - access to nature is limited. I struggle to find capacity within my own situation, let alone what I'm advocating for. So I'm a bit of a hypocrite in ways but seeing how some of the projects, some of the activations, some of the campaigns and the impact that it's had on community has been really heartwarming. We did a, a garden in a local school. There's a green roof in
there. There's lots of trees, there's fruiting trees and shrubs and bushes. The children use it every day and when I go in there to do a bit of maintenance work where we have to shut it off, maybe for an hour they'll all be with their faces up to the fence going like, can we have our garden back? Like, and that really speaks to that sense of ownership and the communities that it benefits, they should be involved in that. We've walked through all these beautiful
gardens and they're really varied. We went through one that I like a tiled floor and everything. It was amazing. And now we finished up in what can be decided is a beautiful sunny little courtyard. It's absolutely gorgeous. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: This is actually a seat that I was I helped build. Oh amazing, it's like a planter bench. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Yeah. So the idea is taking some really simple materials to create nature immersion. And just to sit down and relax and have a chat.
Fantastic! And we're surrounded by herbs mainly, some chives. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: You've got thyme over here. Rub your hands through that. I love that smell. So is there ways that people can kind of bring nature into their space indoors? TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: A window sill can bring so much beauty and so much produce. It could also enable wildlife. But then there's also balconies or rooftops. Rooftops often have full sun so great for growing stuff then and also shared
space. And if space doesn't feel shared or is gated, ask the question, get to know your neighbours, get to know people in your community. But I, I always say that the first point of access comes from understanding and observation. And so this is something that I like to call the small space revolution. And when we talk about space, we're talking about spatial space, we're talking about mental space, spiritual space. It's all about really creating that capacity.
If someone says'garden' to me, I do think of somebody's perfectly manicured lawns with lovely little perfectly regimented plants that go all around it. But I think one of the things that you've described so beautifully as you've gone through today is that a garden can be anything. And I suppose it's about just changing that mindset. TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: And it's really just creating those easy entry points for people to understand that it's not take a
step into, you already are nature. You're already part of the garden. But we have to help people on that journey really support the most marginalized people and the most disconnected people and the most detached people from nature. Then once you've opened that door, then they can find their own path from there, can't they? TAYSHAN HAYDEN-SMITH: Exactly. And hopefully that path is full of flowers and bees and butterflies. Fingers crossed. Community gardens are an incredible access point for
nature and urban landscapes. I'd like to explore the idea of bringing nature inside our homes and growing in more challenging spaces. I've headed east and come to Hackney, a London borough that makes me think of music, art, great bars, pubs, restaurants, and very cool creative residents. But surprisingly, it's also home to a unique National Trust property. One of London's last remaining Tudor Houses. Sutton House is a three story red brick building that as you can hear buses, cars
and bikes whiz past on the busy road it sits on. It's opposite a college and within walking distance to a hospital, it really is an unexpected gem. And even more unexpected is the award winning garden next door that just 10 years ago was an industrial wasteland. And that's what I've come to see. Hello, you must be Ryan.
Hi, Kate. Good to see you.
You too. So you're the site manager here at Sutton House. So tell me a bit about it.
Yes, that's right. So Sutton House is originally a Tudor residence. It was built in 1535. It's undergone a lot of changes since then. It's been a school. It's been a church institute and in the 1980s, it was used as a squat by the local community.
So the history of the house sounds very interesting. But what I've come to see is the garden.
Well, we can go through these gates and I've also got Chris who is one of our garden volunteers.
Hello, Chris, nice to meet you.
Hello Kate, and you.
The first thing I noticed are these big metal industrial looking gates.
Yes. So these gates are a hint to the industrial past of this space. So it was actually used as a car breaker yard in the 1990s and early 2000s before being given to the National Trust.
And it is a really interesting garden. I can't see any grass, but I can see fantastic paved walkway and plants grown in every conceivable type of container, including what looked like cattle troughs, old trailers. There's tyres.
Yes. Being that it was a breaker's yard, the grounds very contaminated. So that's why they're all in containers.
Well, I'm keen to see more of this Chris as we sort of move on in. I imagine that there were probably all the challenges working in this sort of environment.
I mean, with everything in needs to be in planters, there's a lot of watering. And the ground, you know, it's gravel, it all gets quite hot at times and you find the plants start drying out and things you need to keep on top of them and we've got a quite a bit of sun around here at the moment. But the problem is in this area in the city, it does get shaded by other buildings. So you have to be careful what plants you
plant. So they thrive. I mean, it's quite an interesting one here, which is a curry plant. You might be able to smell it, it is quite powerful.
Oh, wow. Really strong, almost looks like sort of pasty lavender. But it smells very different and it seems to grow very nicely in it in its trailer. One of the things that I am absolutely blown away by is the trees. You don't really think about trees growing in pots or, or containers. And in fact, is that a palm tree?
Yeah, there's a palm type tree.
I was not expecting to see a palm tree in London.
It really is a reference to what was in Hackney in the 18th and 19th century - the Loddiges nurseries and they were a family who had nurseries and they bought plants from around the world and set up greenhouses and glass houses off Mayer Street.
I think people think of when they're thinking about gardens, think about National Trust Gardens and they think about these massive spaces and there's like, you know, a nice shrub there and then there's a nice shrub there. And this just shows that, you know, you can think vertically as well as horizontally when you planted gardens and it's particularly important in urban places like this.
That's the thing really.
So what's really sad to me is that Friends of the Earth estimate that roughly one in five of us in the UK are deprived of green space. And I found that absolutely heartbreaking. But I think this garden is such a great example of how you can grow and actually get plants to absolutely thrive in quite an unusual industrial urban space. So, is there any other plants that grow well sort of, in confined spaces, indoors?
Yes mint is a good plant
If you want to follow me through to the courtyard.
Oh, wow. What a completely different space.
Yeah. Really unexpected here in the middle of the building. It's not quite silent but it's as quiet as you could hope to get in a bustling part of London like Hackney.
Loads and loads of plants. There's a bay tree behind me in a big planter, a beautiful holly tree over there. But I'm intrigued by the mint.
You get a great variety of different mints. You get the usual ones like spear mint. But our most interesting one, probably the chocolate mint.
Oo Chocolate mint.
I'll just take a leaf off. See what you think.
Roll it, gonna get the oils out. Chocolate is exactly what it smells like. Smells just like an After Eight or a Twilight. So, what else have we got?
Well, it's quite an interesting one along here, actually. It is actually very strong and it's a bit reminiscent of certain toilet cleaners.
You're really selling it! Oh, wow. Yeah, I get it. It just smells like really lemony. I mean, I would have said maybe lemon grass or lemon balm and not toilet cleaner. Each to their own. Is mint good for growing in containers?
Yeah, I mean, it's quite a hardy plant and really, you need to put it in a container. You shouldn't really put it in the ground because it will spread and then it's quite difficult to get rid of, it takes over your garden.
And I think obviously what's great about mint particularly is, you know, I'm assuming most of these are edible. Yeah. So you can grow it on your windowsill, do a bit of cooking. Or if you like me, enjoy a nice Mojito
You can get it from supermarkets and then just keep growing.
Yes it doesn't have to be expensive. I mean, I've inherited plants, you know, particularly a lot of the indoor plants like aloe vera or spider plants, somebody will have one and you just take a cutting and, you know, it's a case of paying for a plastic pot, a little bit of compost and off you go.
And I mean, that's what you can do with many plants. So you can propagate them just by taking a fresh leaf off and then, you know, sometimes just putting them in a bit of soil and keeping the water and see how they go.
Yeah, you can try these things and see what works and learn from your mistakes as we all do as gardeners.
That's it yes.
I actually look after a Tudor house with gardens up north. It doesn't look like this in any way, shape or form. And I think this is just eye opening and wonderful to see what you have managed to do in a really unusual space, growing in a really different way. So thank you both so much for showing me around, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Spending the morning with Tayshan in the Meanwhile Gardens and then coming to see the work here that's done in the Breaker's Yard has really opened my eyes to what can be grown in what are quite unconventional and small urban places. I'm a ranger and you know, for us, we like to let nature grow where it wants to, how it wants to. But that isn't something that can be done necessarily in these urban areas.
So being able to see what can be done in these small places and seeing the benefit that has to the people who live here, to the communities and also for the climate in general is absolutely inspirational. Thank you for listening to the National Trust podcast. If you'd like to learn how to garden in unconventional or urban spaces, please check out the links and resources in our episode show
notes or search for gardening tips on our website. To make sure you get new episodes of this podcast, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be back soon. But for now from me, Kate Martin, goodbye. Fill your garden with beauty and heritage with the National Trust Native Tree Collection, specially created by Blue Diamond Garden Centres. Working together for the Love Of Nature.