Ep. 78: The Yorkshire Ripper: Part 1

I can only imagine , rob , do your worst , because that was 26 minutes , I believe , of Hannah and Courtney trying desperately to keep Mark on the line and figure out the switchboard . Another reminder why , if you are trying to start a podcast , you desperately need a producer like good old Rob . You really do , you really do .

And I'm so sorry because of Mark . Oh , my God , that's okay , most people would be like fuck this , shit , shit , I'm gonna go do what I was doing exactly but we are happy to have you here and we are excited to hear about .

Whatever it is that you wanted to tell us about , okay .

Hi , I'm Hannah and I'm Courtney . Join us as we delve into true crime , paranormal encounters and all things spooky .

Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with us .

This is Wicked Wanderings , Hi Courtney , Hi Hannah , and we have a special guest Drumroll . Please , Cousin Mark In the flesh sort of In the virtual flesh .

I am always happy to be here hanging out with you , beautiful ladies .

Oh shucks .

Don't give us airs . He's really laying it on us now , today , guys .

Sitting here with my cool Wicked Wanderings douche canoe t-shirt that I have .

Wicked cozy tees . I mean , honestly , I just want to like tear up because , like Court , I know that you've been a wanderer forever and you came to this podcast willing and able to do it with me . But , like from the beginning , like that shirt , I'm just like , oh my God , that's like the beginnings of Wicked Wanderings .

Absolutely . I love it All right . So I have today a very nice young man called Peter .

Sutcliffe

Better known as the Yorkshire Ripper .

Oh , okay , so nice ? Maybe not so much , but I guess , like Bundy was described as nice , right ? Oh , don't get Bundy involved . Mark the record , don't do it . One minute and 54 seconds in and Courtney brought up Bundy involved .

Mark the record , don't do it One minute and 54 seconds in and Courtney brought up Bundy , not Hannah , oh boy . So Peter Sutcliffe , he was a piece of work , that one . He was born in 46 . You know , had two normal parents , you know , as they went along and he was born premature .

I mean it was the 40s and 50s , so true , I suppose a little amount of trauma , naturally , is sprinkled in there .

Well , his father didn't beat his mother .

Okay , yep , there's the trauma . There's the trauma we're talking about .

He didn't beat the kids , it was just mom .

Okay , I mean not great , but still yeah , Okay .

Yeah , a little better . But you know , as a smaller child and having some difficulties , you know his mother doted on him . She was like he's the greatest thing in the world . You know my baby boy and whatnot . As she goes along through life she doesn't have the common stereotypes that a serial killer would have Interesting .

Right Kind of all those classic things that we've heard about so many times when you're reading about serial killers .

Yeah , he went to college .

Okay , so he's educated .

Yeah , and he had a girlfriend from high school and she also went off to college During the week . He didn't get to see her . He only got to see her on the weekend . Then there were times where during the weekend she wouldn't come home so he wouldn't be able to see her . Well , come to find out she was cheating on him . He was beside himself .

Okay , so they did ultimately end up staying together . I felt like I was like here's the dark turn . He's going to say that he , that he already killed this woman , or that he killed the other guy . Okay , you got me on my toes .

Yeah , so he's getting older . He takes a job at a graveyard .

Oh , now it's getting dark , okay .

So , while he's working at the grave , he just jumped down into one of the graves and decided to take a nap after digging the hole .

Not something I would do . I'm sorry , take a nap .

Take a nap after digging . He was tired In the grave .

Without the body , though .

Yes , without the body .

I guess it's only a hole , then you know what I'm saying it's only a hole . Then you know what I'm saying it's it's . It's a hole that will be a grave soon , but it's only a hole .

Exactly , I mean .

I guess I would be tired too .

Yeah , it's kind of so . As he's sitting in this hole , he starts hearing voices .

Okay .

Imagine that .

Yep , yep , yep .

Imagine that you hear voices . He comes out of it and the gravestone is talking to him . Oh , that's where the voice is coming from from one of the gravestones .

So the stone itself , not the person .

It was talking yeah , all right .

Okay .

Kind of like the son of Sam David Berkowitz , His neighbor's dog , he said , was talking to him .

I mean , at least a dog is like an actual living being , though right , I mean like a gravestone , is a little bit different .

Well see , here's the thing with that . He was devotely Catholic , yeah , so he says that's got to be God talking to me .

Yes , Of course god in the form of gravestone yeah , that checks out .

I don't know why you wouldn't think that exactly .

I have to say I'm sorry , like growing up very religious , there were so many men , never women , really . Uh , they were like oh god , talk to me , I'm like . Well , why you like ? Like ?

why of all the human beings right you you .

I mean you say that , anna , because he said that God was talking to him personally , if it wasn't just him personally then everybody else would hear God talking to them .

God was focusing on him . I just feel like the last couple years , the relationship okay , this might be getting personal , but the relationship I have with god , right is just it , just it boggles my mind with the amount of people that are in the world , right , why them ?

I don't think people are in that position like , especially if you're laying in graves to sleep . I don't think you're in the position to be like . You know what this magical man has chosen me and why I think we're just really stuck on the .

He chose me I just I I don't know , like this supposed really big being right , and if you're not gonna believe in the big bang or whatever , like kudos to you , like whatever you believe in , why would they choose you ? Yeah , but also struggle with that .

Yeah , I don't know but also why would god let all these bad things happen ?

yeah , I guess that's where people's different gods come into play , because we hear that a lot with different serial killers or people who are aggressive towards other people , and I think that's a very good point Because , mark , being a person that grew up in the church , and you might appreciate this as well why , if you have a God that is all-knowing , all-being ,

it , not even just allow it to happen . Why would they encourage it ? I get that .

I get that . Why would you allow these people to be anyways ?

Well , everyone says that God created man in his own image . Okay , man in his own image . So a psychopath you know a serial killer says well , if he made us in his own image , he must be just like me psychotic , unfeeling . But you talk to other people and they're like oh no , god's good , god made us perfect Things like that .

Which raises a lot of questions , right Like it's just .

Exactly .

It's interesting ? It certainly is interesting .

Yeah , sorry we derailed you . Yes , please keep going .

No , that's OK . That's OK because you just made me remember that before his and I'm upset that I missed this , but before he got the job as a gravedigger , he was also in a motorcycle accident and had a traumatic brain injury .

And that will really throw a lot of things for a loop . A traumatic brain injury really puts you through some stuff . Yes , it does , yes , it does so , then , it's like are you hallucinating or are you having a psychotic break ? Or is it the traumatic brain injury ? There's a lot more to play there .

And what are the years for this ?

again , I'm sorry he was born in 46 , so we're not know a lot they did not know a lot , I really consider true brain injuries to be that serious yeah nope , rub some dirt on it and get back out right right yeah , so sad . So he has the motorcycle accident . He has his father beating his mother . He has his girlfriend cheating on him .

Ah , ok , and I'm sure that's a really negative image towards women for him . They're all cheaters .

Well , his father found out where the mother was meeting her man . Oh boy , Peter and his father went to the hotel room and caught them .

So he brought his son with him to do that .

They brought him with them and humiliated her in front of everybody , and he ends up grabbing the purse from her and pulls out the lingerie that she was going to wear while she was there .

Oh , yikes , yikes , yikes .

So this whole thing is that he's now seeing women as liars .

Right , exactly .

After he found that his girlfriend had cheated on him , he was going to go cheat on her with a prostitute .

Oh , and here we go , bringing the prostitute . I feel like serial killers at a certain point are very similar the lying , and cheating prostitutes .

He goes to have sex with her and she just walks in , strips down and says , all right , let's go , and he's like wait a minute . That's not how this is supposed to go .

It is when you're paying by the hour . Oh my God .

The first time with a prostitute and he's going wait a minute . I thought there was going to be some . You know something romantic , you know some foreplay or something ?

definitely not . You pay extra for that .

Yeah , exactly so he's like all right , I can't do this , you know , let's call it quits . And he had given her a 10 pound note which back then at that time , was like 50 bucks now .

So he just sent her on her way . He was like thanks , but no thanks .

Oh no , he said you were supposed to give me change when we got here . You haven't done that because it was supposed to be five dollars . And she says , well , bring me back to where I was and I'll give it back to you .

Yeah , that reinforces again women are liars she said exactly I'm going to get the change and come back . And obviously her pimp was like no , we're not doing that .

So between then his first murder he had attacked a few women , but they survived because he didn't actually know what he was doing yet . So there were a few attacks , but no one died . No one could identify him or anything .

When you say attack , do you mean like physical attack , or is it like a sexual attack and a physical attack ?

No , just physical . The police didn't know about the attacks until later because you know , nobody had come forward , because it was really nothing to come forward about , because they didn't know who it was .

And I didn't imagine it was going to be sexual in nature , just because it doesn't seem like if he's the kind of guy who couldn't have sex with a prostitute who was standing right there in front of him , he's probably wouldn't be the kind of guy who could do it Very good point For aggression and things like that . Yeah .

But I also think back then , like it was different when you're reporting these types of attacks ?

Yes , yeah , especially women who are not believed .

Right ? Well , especially at that time , and especially being a prostitute , you know they don't want to bring attention to themselves if they don't have to Right .

If you're going to report a sexual attack , it's like , well , that's your job , well , but they weren't sexual , they were just physical attacks .

But I also feel like at that time women , they were just physical attacks . But I also feel like at that time women were supposed to be seen , not heard , Objectified . They were objectified .

Yeah , absolutely .

Yeah , but at this time there were a lot of mills in the area for the industrial age that were shutting down because the war's over and they didn't need all those things anymore . So people were having trouble making money because the jobs were disappearing .

So that's why a lot of women started to turn to prostitution , because it was a quick way to make money . Yeah , work what your mama gave you Exactly so .

I mean we talked about this in the Gary Ridgway episode where you know mothers would look at their kids and say , why are you being a prostitute ? You can come work at the diner . It's like I'm going to make like half the money at the diner in three hours as a prostitute .

Absolutely , 100% . Agree with that , absolutely All right .

So we've established that Peter Sutcliffe does not like women . Established that Peter Sutcliffe does not like women . You know , his parents didn't really do much to dissuade him from disliking women . So we now come to October of 75 , where he takes his first life . There's a mother of four named Wilma McCann , and she was only killed 150 yards from her house .

As if more than once was necessary . Yeah , stabbed her .

Well , see , this is where the previous attack where people survived that he started to realize that he needed to be more aggressive when he did this .

So was that a pattern of his Showing up behind somebody and beating Okay ? Okay , that makes sense .

And hitting them with a hammer .

Specifically , he had a lucky hitting hammer .

So he ended up stabbing her with a screwdriver After he hit her with the hammer . Poor woman .

or did they just mistake her for a prostitute ?

No , she was a prostitute . Okay , all right . And when the news got a hold of it , the news started calling them good time girls . Oh I hate that Instead of prostitutes .

I hate that , that's not a cute way to say prostitute . Stop that shit yeah .

So that was in October of 75. , january of 76 , he ended up taking out Emily Jackson , who was a mother of two okay , so we're seeing mothers .

We're seeing mothers as a trend so far it is .

Yeah , he was also staged now mothers and prostitutes . It just so happened to be they were both so with Emily she was staged , so when whoever found her , her legs were spread open and made for a shock value .

So the same exact spikes .

This one was also stepped on , so they were able to retrieve a footprint from her thigh , which they ended up determining was a size 7 .

Oh , so he's a small man .

He's a small man . Yes , yes , has the small man syndrome .

Right , and that kind of narrows it down .

I'm assuming , as a search too , because you're like OK , we're looking for somebody with a somewhat specific size , Very tiny Seven is actually kind of small for a woman's foot too .

Yes , Absolutely .

Yeah . So we now move to April of 77 , over a year later , and she ends up killing 28-year-old Irene Richardson . She was also struck in the head and stabbed repeatedly , so she has the same MO of killing , and what the police determined was that all three were not sexually assaulted . So that's starting to remind people of another famous killer in England .

I don't know who could it be ?

That would be our good old friend Jack .

Jack the Ripper .

And since he was from the Yorkshire County , they dubbed him the Yorkshire Ripper .

So , knowing what we know about Jack Ripper now , with who he is , right They've decided who he is , which is kind of sad about .

We've talked about that a few times where it's like lost its luster because of that .

Which is so sad .

I have to preface by saying like we are so sorry for the victim's families because obviously , like they all , should get their justice .

It would have been an interesting twist .

Yes , it really would have . It really would have . Knowing who Jack the Ripper is supposedly now . Does that lose anything for the case you have for us right now ?

I'm sorry , does it what ?

Lose anything like any luster for what you have for the case now .

No , of course not Okay .

Does it prove anything ?

Because everybody everybody's their own , their own individual .

Yeah .

He's escalated a little bit quicker now and he's on to June of 77 , where he attacks 33 year old Patricia Atkins . She was the first one that he actually killed at home In her home correct . Yeah , because she was a prostitute and he made it to her place for their transaction when he killed her .

That's a great way to put that , mark . I love how you were like for her transaction .

Well , it's a business . It is a business .

Respect the hustle .

As he's in there and he kills her , he ends up tracking footprints through the house Again . So now they have footprints to test against other footprints . So at this time the police are narrowing it down to the dislike of prostitutes and the media is putting out there that if you're not a prostitute then you're safe .

Who was clearly not a prostitute .

Clearly not a prostitute . So was it a mistake ? Or is he just angry at women and not prostitutes ?

Or maybe it was an opportunity thing . I know we've definitely talked about that for other cases too , like absolutely Even with the OCCK , like you know , jill Robinson's case . I think about that where it was like was she , why was she shot , and everybody else was strangled . Was it one of those things where it was like oh shit , she's not dead ? Is it ?

So at this point the public's outraged because the investigation is not going the way it should and they haven't found any suspects yet . So the head of the police decide to bring in new investigators to re-jump the investigation . But at this time , you know , there's no DNA because he hasn't done anything to leave any DNA .

Right . Probably the size seven shoe narrows it down more .

Yeah , we got that . So now we're in the July of 77 where he attacked Maureen Long , but she survived .

Oh , no , not again .

He's a couple . There's a couple in his murder spree that end up surviving . She was hit in the head like the rest , but apparently she was able to survive it Shit .

And that makes me wonder . The head injuries ? Well , also well , but like if he's normally , like the other women . He hit in the head and then he stabbed them , so he didn't stab her . But for what reason did he really think that the blow to the head had done the job ? Did somebody startle him ? Did he not have enough ?

That's a good question to have . I don't remember if they said anything about him

So he's smart . At least he knew that . He must have known she survived .

Yeah , well , she also had some brain damage too and couldn't remember much .

From the poor woman hits the head . I'm sure , yeah , damn it .

So at this point , after they've regrouped the investigation , they had an incident room that they had over 270 people working on this case , and then we come to October 77 , where he kills 20-year-old Jean Jordan . She was found nine days after she disappeared .

I'm sorry her tits were what Cut off .

He cut them off .

So he was really taking his hate out on women , right ?

do we know if this was post-mortem or not ?

not that I know well , after hitting her in the head and smashing her face .

I'm sure the rest of it was just anger , yeah , and that shows his character too , where it makes me think that he didn't intend to leave the other person alive , and it was like look at all this anger and rage . I have pent up about how angry I am that the other one got away .

Oh , my God .

Oh God , Because it's far more violent than the other ones .

I mean , the other ones were violent . The other ones were violent , but that one was fine . Oh , that's insane .

Well , that's the thing . She was found in Manchester , which was a long way from Yorkshire , but she hid her in a hedge and when she wasn't discovered , he went back and moved her .

He liked the attention .

Yes .

Okay , so he's an attention guy .

That's important to know . It also looked like he was looking for something and he couldn't find it , and Also looked like he was looking for something and he couldn't find it , and then he flashed the body out of anger .

So a lot of that was postmortem OK . So it was unclear if he was like really upset about the other person getting away or just people not catching on and giving him that like attention and that credit maybe .

Well , no , what happened with this was he had given her a five-pound note . Okay , okay , and apparently at this time in England the companies hand out pay packets , so all the money that's in the packet has been analyzed and can be traced , if need be . Okay , so when he gave her the five-pound note , he was going to kill her and take it back .

OK yeah , because that could have been tracked .

Yeah .

OK , and that leads yeah .

And that leads them to interviews of the males in factories where the packet would have been handed out . And that's one of the things . As this investigation went on , he was interviewed nine times . God , that's insane . And they never figured it out . So it's very possible that during that he was one of the people that were interviewed throughout the factories .

Wow , that's a lot of paperwork .

That's how they were talking millions of pieces of paper , and they were getting phone calls and tips nonstop . We now move to March of 78 , where he has taken 21-year-old Yvonne Pearson . So she was hidden a little more than some of the other ones were , because a passerby saw a hand sticking out of the garbage pile that she was underneath .

Right , like hiding in plain sight .

Yeah .

Yeah .

Well , that was like . That was BTK Dennis Rader . When nobody was reporting on the murder that he had committed , he was calling up news stations and telling them that they were going to find someone somewhere .

Right Wanting that attention , when that attention is the biggest component Because , if you think about it other than I mean , some people get satisfaction out of killing in general . I can't imagine it , but it is true . Other than the satisfaction of killing , what else is this person getting out of killing these women other than attention ?

Nothing . Yeah , yeah , yeah . So Hannah will know BTK was getting upset because Bundy was getting all this publicity Jealousy . No one knew anything about him . So he had written a letter to the news channel and it said how many people do I have to kill before

Apparently more yeah .

No kidding .

Which is just terrible .

It's terrible .

Yes , no kidding , which is just terrible . It's terrible , yes , it is . So we get to May of 78 , where he kills 41-year-old Vera Millward .

That seemed to be like the mo yeah , a lot of these guys like , yeah , I think I was in the car and somebody said I'm having some car trouble .

Figure it out yourself , buddy , I'm staying in the car . And somebody said I'm having some car trouble . I'd be like , figure it out yourself , buddy , I'm staying in the car .

Or even if I had car trouble , I will figure it out myself . I'll just stay locked in this car . I'm good , thank you .

Well , on that sad note , we're going to have to do a two-parter for you guys , because Hannah and I were reckless . Cousin Mark was on topic . Rob's gonna kill us , but everybody should look forward to a part two .

Absolutely .

Sorry , cousin Mark , we can do a pick a card any card . Pick a card any card .

Here we go . I have the queen of hearts and it's theresa corley . Uh , it's familiar really . Yeah , on december 8th 1978 a 19 year old girl was found strangled in a ditch off route i-495 in bellingham . She went missing from franklin . If you have any information , please call 1-855-MA-SOLVE that one sounds really familiar the picture is very familiar .

Let me see yeah oh yeah , no , the picture is very , very familiar , right , I'm wondering . I definitely have read an article on her , but there's also a couple of really big podcast episodes about her , so that could have been it too also can we discuss what happened in ?

what was it waterbury connect it ?

what happened there ?

there was a person that was held hostage for like 20 years .

Yikes , when did that come up ? Oh , was that the kid , the stepson ?

Yes , yes and yes . And he , he had like basically no water , no food , he was malnourished and he set fire to the house just so he could get out . I mean smart .

Yeah , I remember hearing that .

Yeah so that yeah , so the stepmom is on trial , but she got out on bail . That's like what gets me on bail ? Well , they don't think she's a flight risk . So Well , I guess the father died a year ago . So she's like , oh , it was all the father's fault , but yeah but like a year ago .

Why didn't he get let out ?

Mm . Hmm , oh , it was all the father's fault , but yeah , but like a year ago .

Why ?

didn't he get let out ?

yeah , but yeah he set fire with a piece of paper hand sanitizer and a lighter . I just looked it up . Right , yeah , was it . Was it waterbury ? Yeah , yep , yep . She was arrested on wednesday and charged with first degree assault , second degree kidnapping , first degree unlawful restraint , cruelty to persons and first degree reckless endangerment . What was ?

disgusting about it is that they he was pulled out of school when he was 11 and filed on the family and nothing was done .

That's what's disgusting , like I do think is is so like I'm just scrolling the first article that I found , obviously , and there's a quote from uh , the chief of waterbury police , saying 30 years in law enforcement and this is the worst treatment of humanity that I have ever witnessed yeah , so , and they see some things too .

Yeah , they see things right but , like this family was filed on and nothing was done , there was locks on the outside of this door , like if you did any type of investigation .

Yeah , it's sick .

Yeah , that's crazy , just as much as anybody .

the DCF system is broken oh yeah . It's completely broken and I know that a lot of people feel hindered by the fact that they get involved , but it's like their job is to get involved to determine if there's a threat or not . Yeah , they really . I've heard just so many cases where they don't get involved and there's this bigger thing going on .

It's really troubling yeah .

Thanks for joining us , cousin Mark . We always love to have you , especially when we give you no notice and we just blow up your phones with a what you do . I 100% just slid right into Mark's DMs and was like hi , what's happening ? What you want to ?

do what's up , Marky Mark ?

I called him Marky Mark , all right . All right , we will see you guys next time . Goodbye , hannah , bye .

Thanks for listening today . Wicked Wanderings is hosted by me Hannah and co-hosted by me Courtney , and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick music by Sasha M . If you enjoyed today's episode , don't forget to leave a rating and review and be sure to follow on all socials . You can find the links down in the show notes .