¶ Lizzie Borden
Hello Wanderers , I'm Hannah and I'm Jess , and this is Wicked Wanderings . Hello Jess , hello Hannah , welcome to part three of Lizzie Borden . Yes , and today , if you haven't noticed , we have a special guest , is that ?
a guest , is that ?
who that is . So for our episode today , I have my brother , jonathan , who is a wealth of knowledge of everything , but also Lizzie Borden , so I'm very excited to have you here , jonathan . Thank you for being here , and you're our first guest .
Oh , my goodness , that's so exciting . Hello , wicked Wanderers , it's so nice to meet you all over the microphone .
I feel like we should give him , like a award or something that said first person , a gold star like one of those little ribbons you got in first grade . Yes , Doing something special , a little gold skull I can wear on my lapel to work there we go , If we ever make sweatshirts or t-shirts or something like first person to go on as a guest .
Consider it done Momentous and .
I also know that you just got your first patron . We did Lynn from Springfield , that's so exciting First guest , first patron , y'all are rolling .
We are . So if you guys want to be one of our lovely patrons and have a shout out , go to WickedWanderingspodcastcom and help us pay Rob for all he does .
Making us sound amazing , because if you guys heard , like the real cut yeah .
It's not good .
It's amazing . We're hilarious , but I feel like we're more hilarious to ourselves than to other people .
But yeah , because sometimes we're like squirrel and then we're like we know . Let's go back to what we were talking about .
It's that , producers at it . It makes it all beautiful .
I thought people automatically sounded that good . Really , it's production that makes us .
It's really Rob .
Yeah , it's really Rob . Thanks Rob , thanks Rob , thanks Rob . So today we're finishing up . Lizzie Borden we're going to talk about the verdict , we're going to talk about her life after the trials , and then some spooky haunted stuff .
Yay , excited , okay , especially for the spooky haunted , I know .
Monday , june 19th 1893 . The defense is giving their spiel to the jury . They want Lizbeth to look innocent and talk through all the necessary points . Jess , I am not sure if I talked to you or my brother about this , but one of you mentioned how there was a theory that Lizbeth had a sexual relationship with her father .
Yes , from Dead Files . Oh , that's where you heard it . That show , yeah .
Oh , have you ever watched it ? Yes , I have . Okay , I wasn't impressed .
Yeah , I mean some of her episodes are cool , but I wasn't impressed with the Lizzie Borden one because that's what she picked up when she was in the house A lot of incest between her and her father and her sister , and I was like .
Oh , okay , yeah , oh , is this person like a medium ?
Yes , like they sang .
Interesting .
So the basis of the show is she goes in and does her readings . You know they block everything out . Well , I mean , she would have to know she's going to Lizzie Borden house and then there's a retired New York City homicide detective that goes behind the scenes and finds like the actual facts .
And then they come together at the end and discuss it and see like if they line up .
You mentioned how wow . What she did not know is she's going to Lizzie Borden house . So that's what I like about Kindred Spare to the Amy Bruni , because Chip Coffee , who is their medium , they'll blindfold him because it's just to see the Lizzie Borden house , you're like , oh yes , this one was traumatized and I think she killed her parents .
But with him , they blindfold him before he gets there and then . So everything he senses is completely real . At least it should be real , yeah normally she doesn't know where they're going .
Who knows ? It's all TV .
The defense went on to talk about how Andrew never wore any jewelry except the ring given by Lizbeth . She has his name as her middle name and they want to paint this picture of love . But they paint it too hefty because the author mentioned it can be misconstrued as a sexual relationship , not a father-daughter relationship .
I can't comment on the potential incestuous relationship that she may or may not have had with Andrew , but everything that you guys have been talking about before in these episodes about how simple of a man he was I mean , when we're talking about the 1890s , we're talking about what's commonly described as history and says the gay 90s .
The stock market was , people were making money in the industrial space , including Andrew Borden , hand over fist . This is the age , this is the gilded age . This is the time where America is just zooming in terms of economic growth and Andrew kind of stands apart as a really simple man . You guys have talked about that before , with how simple the house was .
So I'm kind of not surprised that all the trappings of a proper gilded age industrialist or something he didn't grab on to , but yet he held on to this one piece of jewelry because it was his daughter . I'm not discounting any of the other theories , with him saying it kind of fits the narrative and the profile you guys have investigated .
Jess , he makes us sound smart .
I can you come every time ?
That's what we were trying to say this whole time .
Thank you you guys did say that synopsis and call me readers digest .
Yes perfect , but I also feel like people look for that kind of nasty stuff when it's not necessarily you know . They look into the bad , into everything .
Yeah , that's . The prosecution said their piece in front of the jury by bringing up such things as the note that they believe does not exist , that apparently her stepmother had gotten to see a friend . It is impossible for Elizabeth not to hear the fall of her stepmother also , and there's nowhere to hide in the house between the gap of the murders .
But the thing that intrigued me was the prosecution talked about how sloppy Abby's murder was . They described how messy and inaccurate the swings were and how they were all over the place . The argument was it was the hand of a woman and not a man of strength and precision who knew how to handle a hatchet A theory I thought of .
What if Lizbeth did kill her stepmother , changed her clothes , bathed in the basement with the blade towels and fabric are found and then changed in . Someone else killed her father .
You know , I have not thought about that until this very second that you mentioned the sloppiness of Abby's murder .
I thought that was really fascinating because from where Andrew was murdered it was from behind and it was kind of very you obviously had to have a good muscular hand , but with Abby it was sloppy and the hatchet works were everywhere .
And then she also got hit in the back , which could have been the initial swing , especially if you can't lift the hatchet too far above your head . You know , with a man you could hit the head , probably no problem with the height , but maybe it was a woman .
That is such an interesting theory . I've never , actually heard a theory about dividing the actual perpetrators before what you just mentioned .
Using my noggin , I have solved it , but I mean it also goes to the idea of passion .
I mean it's sloppy , it's not just the maybe the unskilled hand with an axe , but it's also passion . It's I need to move forward with this but , it's actually so interesting that you bring up that the Andrew's murder was different . I kind of I like that idea . Yeah , I mean too , I'm on board yeah .
And you think of , like crimes nowadays , when they can tell if there's like two shooters or not , or how if there's two people involved , based on you know .
So that would make sense , especially if Elizabeth couldn't had a close relationship with her father and wouldn't be able to do that , and maybe the other person was her uncle , was a man and wasn't related to him and part of a plan . Just saying .
And one to approach from the back , because he would know , yes , he was supposed to be gone by that point .
And Andrew wakes up and goes who the hell are you ?
Yeah .
What are you doing here ? Yeah , I totally feel that .
Whether Lizbeth did it or not , the sexism in this case is abhorrent and I know I've been talking about this for a couple of episodes like just absolutely abhorrent . So I'm actually going to read again from Cara Robertson's book that I've been talking about forever I feel . But I absolutely love this book . I finished it this week . It was absolutely fabulous .
So , and I quote , lizzie Borden's behavior at the scene of the murder suggested a masculine courage , highly suspicious and a woman . Nolan contrasted her quote and quiet demeanor at the sense of the scene of the crime , excuse me with the agitation of a man in the same position 15 minutes afterwards .
Nolan also emphasized her willingness to go into the room containing her late parents bloodstained clothing , the night after the murders commenting .
All I propose to make of that incident is to emphasize from it the almost stoical nerve of a woman who , when her friend not the daughter or the stepdaughter of these murdered people , but her friend could not bear to go into the room where their clothes were , should have the nerve to go down there alone and calmly enter the room .
For some purpose had I know not what connections with this case , he reminded the jury of Lizzie's comments after failing the egg experiment reported by Reagan . That was the only thing she had ever put her mind to that she could not do so .
The whole point was he's like so she could look at the skulls with no problem , she could look at the bloody clothes , she looked at the murder scenes with no problem , but yet her friend was fainting over it . I don't necessarily think that means she did it . I just think maybe she just yeah , she just didn't care . Maybe her friend's a pussy .
Well , she does sound like a pussy . Actually , that woman sounded like a definite pussy .
I would also add , just based on what you guys have also been talking about , is that it seems Elizabeth , if I'm saying that correctly was also a really stoic character from the line that you guys have investigated . But also she was under the influence of a tremendous amount of drugs .
Yes , so I think her natural proclivity to and I'm not trying to defend her in any way , but if she actually did it , I think that there was a lot going on that might have made her . She's kind of still in shock . She's under a tremendous amount of stress .
Her doctors are giving her a tremendous amount of what we would now consider like illicit , crazy drugs Cocaine , that was actually one of my favorite anecdotes , you were like yes , cocaine , it was so awkward , but you know what it's funny story . I absolutely adore that , but there's also a lot going on .
I would hate to be and go and say like she did it because she was so stoic about it . Maybe she was just a lot of morphine .
Yeah , and she probably was disassociating a lot of the time too , because that's an enormous amount of stress and her friends also said like that's just Lizzie , she just is that way .
Very private .
Yeah , I don't think there's anything wrong with that , but apparently she's not very feminine because of it . Her and her broad shoulders . Man , her and her broad shoulders . How dare she ?
¶ Lizbeth Borden's Trial and Life After
One of the judges gave Lizbeth a chance to speak for herself before they did the verdict and she said , I quote I am innocent . I leave it to my counsel to speak for me . A woman , a few words .
And well coached . Yes , that's something your lawyer tells you .
Yes , the jurors were sent to deliberate and it only took them an hour and a half to come up with the verdict not guilty . And Lizbeth sobbed , so that's probably the most emotional , so there's some emotion . That's probably like a emotional reaction , like relief .
Later it was found out that the jury had their verdict in an hour but stayed put for another half hour , basically to make it look like they were really doing their job and discussing .
You know that sounds like such a man thing to do . No offense for the men in this room . No comment .
No comment your first guest and already being asked to leave . No , I'm absolutely joking . No , that totally sounds like a a heterosexual man .
Yes , gender white male thing . Yes , lizbeth headed home to Fall River where 2000 people waited outside for her , but she ended up staying somewhere else that night , which I don't blame her . Lizbeth had many correspondences that she replied to as well , so people like wrote her letters and stuff and she actually had to write back .
Another thing is that the jurors took her a picture with her .
They wanted to take a picture with Lizzie after the trial she had to like shake all of their hands and thanked them .
I think it's hanging up at the house , so they might tell you about that , I hope we see that .
Yeah , so everyone might as well just tell you now . So my brother is surprising me with a trip to go there tomorrow . I'm so excited , yay .
It's our annual spooky , spooky tour .
Sibling trip how fun .
I also hope , and this is up to you and Jess that at some point that we can do a wicked wanderings trip .
Yes .
And it's like an annual trip and I'm happy to organize it . But we could do a different wicked wandering spot for year .
That would be so fun . I didn't even need to hear the end of it . I was like , yes , yes , please , absolutely .
I think I have an idea . If you're interested in that , wanderers , absolutely yes , get in touch . Yes , because we will put your name on the list and we'll go somewhere .
Like I mean , we've gone to Salem and now we're going to Fall River and some spooky spots in Rhode Island , you know where I want to go , but both of you have already been to Savannah because you guys talk about how spooky it's there . Oh yes , I'll go back . I adore Savannah .
This is a little off topic , but it's still spooky stuff .
Totally off topic . If you're interested in going on Wicked Wandering 's Tour , list now .
Yes , oh , maybe that could be like a thing ?
Oh , it's totally a thing , but only for patrons .
There we go . Oh yeah , and mom , I guess Lynn from Springfield is a what going with us .
Maybe a tour for plus .
Rob , I'm sorry , rob and Kenzie , of course , oh yeah .
Pups are loud .
Lisbeth decided to stay in Fall River . To the surprise of Benny , after the trial , people that were originally happy for her returned their backs on her . She attended her church in July , the church that she was extremely involved with and started to be shunned by all around her .
Lisbeth and her sister moved to Maplecroft on French Street , but still kept the house on Second Street . Lisbeth changed her name and started attending the theater in Boston . Ladi , that's Lisbeth stopped her church charities , but she did pay for her pew till 1905 , which I thought was really interesting . Was it just like kind of like a fuck you ?
So yeah , so they paid , she paid for it , even though , even though she wouldn't go . I mean , I could go off on how religious people aren't as spiritual and Christ like as they claim to be .
Yeah , seriously , Prime example but maybe it was like well , maybe she thought if she did , then she would get some type of forgiveness from God , type thing . Yeah , I don't know , that's going probably a little deep .
But who knows ?
I mean we also have to . Just an additional facet to this very multifaceted conversation about Lisbeth Borden and religion was that when you got to a certain socioeconomic status in the 19th century and even 20th century , you had to pay for your pew .
It was .
it was not just I want to sit in the front . It was an understanding that I am middle class and up , and this is my spot . So many churches you would not be able to get a seat on the first floor unless you paid for it . You had to be in the balcony .
And if they didn't have a balcony , well , certain churches especially like New York City where I live you wouldn't be able to church there unless you physically purchased your pew .
It was also a way of it wasn't just I want to hire a seat , I'd pay more money , which is also true but it was also a way of paying for expenses to the building and outreach efforts and soup kitchens and things like that .
So I think she probably thought it was just a normal duty to be able to continue to pay for the family pew and also probably a hope that at some day she'd be proved innocent and she'd be able to sit there in her own you know , told you so moment , just as a different perspective .
I like your perspectives though .
But yeah , I mean , this is also , I will also say , a really interesting time and just religion and middle and upper class churches period over the United States . Because the 1890s into the early 19th century is also a excuse me early 20th century . It's also really interesting time because it's the beginning of the movement and moving away from paid pews .
It was the idea of pledging or like tithing , or like giving money because you wanted to , not because you were hoping to make sure that Mrs Fafani didn't move up to pews because you lost release .
Yeah , so I mean , that's how the Mormon church has gotten so rich .
By Ryan .
Pugh's no ties .
Oh , I'm a moved out in 1905 after disagreeing with Lizbeth's decision in life and never spoke to her sister again , which is so sad wait .
What decision in life ?
There was . There wasn't really like much on it , it was . It was just kind of like she didn't agree with how Lizbeth was living her life and decisions that she was making and I was like , screw it , I'm leaving .
Oh , going to Boston and partying with the theaters . Those , those party people act is this the moment where I'm allowed to mention my little fact about Mabel Croft ?
Yeah , yeah , okay , of course beloved host .
So I have read about Lizzie Gordon . She's me Lizbeth , for years Probably , since I was like five .
The way you're not gonna worry about here . We come from a weird family , we know , we know beloved sister so this was totally normal .
But when she moved to Mabel Croft If you haven't seen photos , totally Google it . It's on Zillow . It was sold a couple of years ago $700,000 . If I had $700,000 I'd be living there now , maybe doing the podcast from there . Gorgeous , beautiful Queen Anne home with a tower what gay doesn't want a tower ? I want a tower . But when ?
you look at it if you're a historian or like a historic house fan and you look at it and you're like why is the whole front porch blocked in by glass ? It's all covered in windows . It's not an open porch , though the back porch is open .
Well , the reason for that was when she moved in there were so many Gawkers you know fans of this kind of macabre celebrity that she had turned into that she wanted to be able to enjoy the porch with more privacy , so she had all the windows installed .
So if you look it up online and you look at Mabel Croft , lizzie Borden's home on French Street and Fall River , massachusetts , you'll see the house with all the glass windows and those are all original from her time .
Wow , I love that . I love it . But it's also sad that she had to do that just to enjoy her piece .
You know I Love the fact , I should say not , not why she did it .
I'm also kind of glad I will say this , and I knew you have so much more to tell us but for me , after everything she had to deal with and the whole trial and Everything she had to deal with with her father and her stepmother and all that you know the chaos of the real estate deals that you guys have outlined it's kind of nice to know that they were
able to move up the hill , mabel Croft , and she was able to get her own house in a place where she thought that she should be . Yeah , it's kind of her own fulfillment . It wasn't perfect . It was absolutely a A broken diamond , but a flawed diamond but , it was hers .
It was hers , absolutely . Lisbeth found companionship in her dogs and treated her staff's children with care , like she would give them ice cream and stuff , and I just think that's so sweet .
Okay , a life with just your dogs .
I mean that doesn't sound too bad right , that's my kind of heaven , just did you did you want to talk about her dogs , because I know you have a fun fact .
Especially dogs so While I've been researching this trip to Fall River with my sister Hannah , I Was like I want to see where her grave is .
So of course I looked it up and there's a beautiful Boarding plot in the local Fall River cemetery for the upper crust and it's beautiful and as a big I don't think it's an obelisk but some sort of a big monument For the boardings and she's buried there with her family Labeled , is you know , on her tombstone . This is Lisbeth .
It's not Lizzie , which I love as well . She kept her name that she wanted . But then it immediately led me to the , the search and this these forums about where her dogs there remains , had there in hurdle home . So apparently her dogs that she loves so much pre-deceased her .
So it's understood that they would have been buried on a plot in Her , her property at Maplecroft . But after her death they need to sell the home , so her executors moved to them to a cemetery in dead of Massachusetts which is outside Boston . So if you kind of look at a map it's quite a bit of a far distance from Fall River . And why is it so far ?
It's because it's one of the oldest , if not the oldest , animal cemetery in the United States this is kind of the first . You know your late 19th century people adore their pets . They want a place for them to rest eternally , just like family members , because they are family members and so they're buried there . And it doesn't stop there .
Very cool thing is that your executors actually created a miniature version of the Borden family plot . That's in Fall River , at the animal cemetery in dead of Massachusetts , with the same but miniature scaled Monument that the Borden's had to .
If you want to Google it , lizzie Borden's Pop cemetery , basically in dead home , and you can go see and it's a miniature version of the Borden family plot .
Doesn't that so cool , that's adorable , oh my god .
Different spooky tour .
Yeah , add that to the list .
She passed away at Maplecroft on June 1st 1927 and she wanted to be buried at her father's feet . Funeral was small and her grave bricked to prevent disturbance so no one could be digging it up , Okay she wanted to be buried at her father's feet .
Yeah , okay , if you killed your father , you wouldn't want to be buried at his feet .
I don't she killed happy . I mean , look , that's at least my theory . Well , that's the pronouncement . I guess she did .
But no , I totally hear you , jess , Right , yeah , it makes no sense .
Right , you would want to be as far away from him as possible . Yeah , 10 days later Emma passed away and they were all reunited together in the family plot area .
So I'm actually going to read out of the book again , because I love this book and I quote it is tempting to speculate about Lizzie Borden's motivation for remaining in Fall River and enduring the ostracism of the community whose good opinion she had so assiduously sought .
But perhaps half a century earlier , nathaniel Hawthorne penned the most convincing explanation for his fictional outcast and the Scarlet Letter . And then it gives a quote from the Scarlet Letter , but I won't bore you with that . Lizzie Borden herself never publicly commented about the case that altered the course of her otherwise drab life .
Like the town that bred her and then ostracized her as she aged , lizzie Borden turned inward , reclusive and above all , silent . I mean , I don't blame her , I don't want to talk about it , you know .
¶ Lizzie Borden's Theft and Hauntings
So do you know about the theft that Lizzie Borden , Elizabeth Borden , was accused of post trial ? No , I don't know much about it at all , so this is like a little known fact and so I'm getting my information from the Hatchet , which is a journal of Lizzie Borden and Victorian Studies . It's a blog , something I've read years ago .
This is one of their posts from July of 2018 . So the idea is that this is years after the murders and the trial . She's living up at Maple Crop , she's in her post trial life and she was apparently arrested for a theft in Providence , rhode Island . So it's a little bit of background . We're talking about late 19th century 1890s .
Fall River and Providence are huge economic powerhouses . They're probably not as important as New York City , but they're still really important . So you'd be able to get really wonderful imported goods in Fall River . But one step up would be Providence , and Providence is not that far away from Fall River . So the Providence Journal from the 16th of February 1897 .
So not that long after the trials Reads Lizzie Borden . Again a word for her arrest , issued by a local court . Two paintings missed from Tilden Thurber company's store Said to have been traced to Miss Borden's home in Fall River . Officials loathe to furnish information of affair . The warrant was issued some time ago and has not been served .
It is understood that Miss Borden is now claimed to have purchased the articles and that she retained them .
So the idea is that she came in from Fall River to Providence on a shopping trip to Tilden Thurber , which was a high end department store , and she basically just pocketed these two what would have been miniature paintings on marble , and then got back on her boat home . It got her . So is Murky in the end about what happened .
She wasn't in the end arrested , she didn't get into major trouble , maybe she just gave cash to Tilden Thurber , the department store . But it's a really interesting anecdote like what Four years after the proceedings of the court ended .
That's interesting . And thank you for saying miniature , because I'm imagining Lizzie holding these huge buildings , the paintings , trying to walk out of the building .
I was thinking the same thing . I'm like damn , that's a big dress or coat she has . To stuff these under here .
Didn't we talk earlier in the episode about her wide shoulders , her ?
broad shoulders . Maybe she was wearing her steel cape , I don't know . I should hide a picture .
Michael Angelou's David .
I swear .
I just bought it Exactly , but I just love this idea that she had a life after the trials . And she was active in a variety of things , including Boston Theater . Maybe shoplifting .
So in the book the author does talk about how she was getting accused of shoplifting , but I didn't know she actually did it . I thought , from what I have read , it sounded like people were just trying to get her in trouble just because she was Lizzie Borden .
I mean she may or may not have a history of stealing things like streetcar tickets Right right , Because there was that robbery in the home that I think Andrew thought was happening with one of his girls .
Which is why he locked the doors in the house .
And the jewelry and the money .
I didn't even reconnect that , that's actually that's a good point . Because that earlier theft , I was always thinking of putting something inside . I want some streetcar tickets so I can have movement . I want some cash to be able to move around , but I never reconnected . Maybe it was just like a thrill .
So she may have had a disorder which I can't think of the name of the disorder right now , where you just Cliptoe .
Cliptoe maniac . Thank you , Rob . I don't know if that's the official .
Strip from our producer Cliptoe maniac .
Thanks , Rob .
I mean there's a lot of different things . One , she could have totally hit like kleptomania , like she could have just like wanted to steal things . Two , she could be completely innocent and people were just like that is Lizzie Borden . And we want to create a story in the Providence Journal Three , she could be on a rush , which is kind of kleptomania .
Or she could have been bored .
Maybe she needed some excitement . Yeah , see if I can get caught .
I got away the first time , but murder just stealing art , I mean , you know it's interesting , like the cases .
I've done that . There's been a pattern with women stealing things because more Murray was stealing things .
I was just thinking the same thing and she did it for yeah , she's gonna have the money .
Yeah , if you haven't heard that episode . It's episode one . Go listen , Subscribe and like .
Well , and then the uncle was on the streetcar during the murders with the six priests , so I wonder why those streetcar tickets were stolen . A little too convenient , it was all really suss though with him .
Like he remembered too many details for like I can't remember what I did yesterday . And you're like , yes , I did this and it was this streetcar number and this conductor with the number on his hat and there were this many people . That seems really suspicious .
That sounds like someone who needs an alibi . Right exactly , You're amazing .
Exactly so this I am so excited about because I'm such a nerd . So cool fact . I love cool facts . Remember Robinson , who was one of her lawyers , yes , and was also a principal at Chick-A-B-High ? Yes , come to find out . In 1866 , robinson founded a firm that is located on Main Street in Springfield and there sits in a locked cabinet the Lizzie Bordenfile .
So it's like down the street , let's go .
Seriously , she's so close Like I just want to get a job there for a couple of days , just be like , hey , you know , can you open that cabinet over there ? Take a look , see .
Is it Markey Salamone ? No , no , it's not .
But the author of this book actually interviewed someone about it . So since Robinson left it in the firm's hands , they are still bound by client confidentiality . Because the other lawyer had his files at home . So his family just kind of sent it to the Historical Society . But since they're still within the law's hands , they can't do it .
I mean they could destroy them , but the guy's like why would I do that ? This is history .
When does that expire ? Does attorney-client privilege ?
expire ? It doesn't , according to this book . It doesn't . It's like a time capsule . So I wanted to read another quote . Like Robinson Donovan's senior partner , jeffrey McCormick , who learned about the file when he arrived at the firm in 1977 , said it would be abhorrent to dispose of something as such historic value .
So there in Springfield , massachusetts , locked in a five-door filing cabinet , the file languishes More than 125 years after Lizzie boarded gloved hand and Robinson's arm walked out of the new Bedford courtroom of Free Woman .
I need to know , I need to see that box .
Right , isn't that crazy . When I read that I was on cloud nine , I thought that was the coolest piece of information I've gotten . I want to get into some hauntings and I want to tell our wicked wanders out there .
If you want to follow along with what I'm talking about , it's actually on the Lizzie Borden House website and you go into the about tab and then you go to hauntings and they actually have like a little story with either a picture or a video . So I just I think Jonathan and Jess , you both have them up , so you know what I'm talking about .
I'm on it .
Excellent . Okay , so the first one is called haunting in the dining room and is actually a video . So it says on eight seven 22, . Two guests staying at the Lizzie Borden House in Fall River Massachusetts had a chilling , unexplainable experience before the nightly ghost hunt .
Vicki and her daughter Emily , from Pennsylvania were exploring a first floor of the house in a closet door , unlatched , and slowly began to open by itself just after the lights went out on the guests . The two guests were completely flabbergasted but now have one of the best ghost stories to tell their friends .
So I watched it and I just like , like , like creak open and the mom just like slams it shut . It freaks her out so bad . I don't necessarily know if it was a ghost , I don't know . It just looked like an old door swinging open .
But creaky old house .
Yeah Bad hinges . Yeah , they actually showed it at the house , like the tour guide , so I don't know if they'll do that when you guys go , but they what ? They showed this video at the house , oh really .
They're very proud of the open pantry . Not to put shame on the house we're about to see tomorrow .
¶ Eerie Encounters at Lizzie Borden House
This one actually really creeped me out . So it's a picture of a family member . Is that Lizzie in that picture ? Can anyone tell me ?
Oh , this one here yeah . No , that's not Lizzie .
It's a family member , right ?
So the story goes obviously related , but I mean they have the same Bad shoulders yeah Her shoulders aren't very broad , so I don't think it's Lizzie .
So this gentleman , aaron , was in the basement on the extended part of the house tour in October of 2022 , when these photos were snapped Shortly before this . Aaron remembers feeling very cold upstairs while getting spikes on his EMF detector . The photos are unedited and you see Aaron's reflection taking the photo , so you see this red shirt kind of right there .
However , one features an eerie reflection of what appears to be a woman . This coincides with many of the reports of guests and staff who have also felt the presence of a woman in the basement , but nothing this discernible has ever been captured before . I looked at this .
It actually freaked me out , because you can plainly see a woman on the right hand side , her left shoulder .
Let's see here on her left shoulder . Yeah , it's not very yeah Like facing .
Do you see it ? No , is it lower ? So it's the right side , but her left shoulder . Can I say something from a different perspective ? Absolutely , absolutely .
So I've worked in historical homes as a docent or a .
That's right . Tell the house that you were in Boston .
Oh , so I've worked in a few . I've worked with the Gibson House in Boston , which is a fabulous 19th century row house in Back Bay Preserved in what they call Victorian amber I mean , this sounds like a commercial . They are not a sponsor but they should be and basically it has not been updated since they last installed electricity in the 19 teens .
Wow .
And I have felt poltergeist activity there , like I have heard voices , I have seen things and I have heard they have a wonderful back staircase . This should be a whole separate episode and we should actually go there .
It could totally make that happen .
Oh , I could totally make that happen .
It's an amazing home in Back Bay . It really is . It's extraordinary .
When and where .
Producer Rob was so freaked out by the presence of the fair .
Poor Rob . It also was Halloween time , so I was freaked out .
And then I've worked for the trustees of reservations , which is an amazing historical organization in Massachusetts that preserves land in historical homes . They've worked with Mission House and NomeCake , which is aMission House , is a 18th century house in Stockbridge and NomeCake is a 19th century mansion in Stockbridge .
I've worked for the Stephen Hopkins house , which is a 17th century into 18th century home of one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence in Rhode Island .
So there's a lot that I've seen and I've seen poltergeist activity in most of these , but it's always by people who want to be there Like they love , to this home where they had wonderful times there and they want to express their activity .
It's not Elizabeth showing up her shoulder in the reflection of a photo of a distant boarding family member in the house where she may or may not have killed her stepmother .
So I'm just a little bit skeptical there , I don't think it's Elizabeth , though , because I totally , 100% agree with you . Why the hell would she still want to be there ? Because I think she's at Maplecroft . I agree this is Abby Because I know so . Kindred Spirits is one of my favorite shows and Jess me and you when she's the Amy Pruitt who is a ?
fabulous paranormal investigator and she even says she's like it's just Abby and Andrew here . There's Elizabeth is at Maplecroft , like why would she want to hang out on Second Street that she hated so much ? That makes no sense .
I'm so glad she said that because I totally agree with that . Yeah , I 100% agree .
I think that looks like a pirate . The woman looks like a pirate , Like the white just over her shoulder . Looks like a pirate wearing sunglasses to me .
Well , I guess wanderers you'll have to find out for yourselves .
Is it Lizzie Borden ? Is it a pirate ? Is it the stepmother who knows you should do ?
an Instagram poll . Yes , I was just going to say that That'd be perfect . Be like and you'll understand when you listen to this week's episode . The next one is titled Andrew's face in the dining room question mark .
While on a house tour , lori snapped this photo in the dining room and unknowingly captured the spooky image of what appears to be a face staring back at her . Even more creepy is that the face looks eerily familiar . Perhaps Mr Andrew Jackson Borden himself ? It's difficult to tell for certain , but we'll let you compare the images yourself .
So there's a couple that you can see . They circled and they did like a side by side of Andrew's face . I think it's looking for something in the light .
Yeah , I think . To me it does look like a face , but it could be a flash of shadows and light .
Yeah , I don't think it's much of anything .
Because even if I was murdered in a house like that I might haunt around the couch where I was murdered , but also considering that I had been poisoned probably twice from Badminton and something else I may not want to hang around the dining room . Maybe I'd be salty about it , but I don't know .
The next one that I really liked is the shadow figure in the parlor . Stephanie and her friends Chris and Chrissy shared enough forgettable experience in the front parlor of the Lizzie Borden house . Chris she'll , laying on the couch reportedly asked the spirit of Mr Borden about his reputation as a penny pincher shortly before this photo was snapped .
When Stephanie later reviewed the photos , she could not believe what was captured . A shadow figure appears to be entering the room on the left side of the photo .
Okay , that's probably more realistic for me .
The shadow figure .
He was like I'm not a pinchy pincher .
I'm kind of curious , so I'm looking at this now . You see that this gentleman has decided to be in the position that Andrew Borden was in when he died . Do you think that could be the murderer ? Yes , that would be more clear .
What a great idea .
Honestly . But the murder has womanly features in the face though , but the height of a man , I don't know . What do the shoulders look like .
It looked a little sloped . I think it's the ankle .
I'm wondering that he was like I'm here for the penny pincher . I wonder if anyone's asked if John Morris is there because everyone wants to talk to Abby or Andrew , because anyone tried talking to John Morris .
He'd probably be tied to the place regardless of where he died .
And what about ? Do you guys believe in residual energy ? This is a very traumatic event and maybe just going through the motions of the murder , the repetition yes .
We also have to consider , and the way I kind of understand it is that we know to say you're cooking something right and you're using a wooden spoon . The wooden spoon heats up a little bit . It can conducts energy in its own way , how scissors are built of wood and metal they conduct energy , they hold energy .
Yeah .
I'm not surprised if some sort of weird energy stays in the place that is so dramatic as you were saying Absolutely yeah , guys .
I think that's that yes .
That's my favorite .
Yep , absolutely my favorite so far .
The person over the shoulder .
I can't wait until to hear back after your tour . I'm so excited Because there's this part in the basement that they try to work up and have you take a picture of it .
And I called BS on it and he's like I probably will be posting some pictures to it , please do , and I know that Jonathan said that he would take pictures of me at certain places on our spooky trip .
Oh , totally yes . So group photo with Elizabeth the cemetery or something at Mabelcroft .
See if the pirate shows in the back of your pictures .
I just think an important thing is , especially entering these homes that have so much history and dark history like this , is just to be respectful . Respectful , yeah , I think that , like I bring up Amy Brony again , but I love how she's respectful and she tries to get the facts right .
You're not going in there like I know you did it , leslie Like look what you did and just like like interrogate them and say mean things . Just go in there respectfully , like hey , I'm just going to come out , hang out for a minute , don't mind , even if you don't believe it . I think , just respecting the space , I agree what you need to go .
So there was another funny story when I went to the Lizzie Boardhouse is afterwards I think everyone was supposed to go outside but they went back into the living room and I was in the hallway because I don't like being in crowds in small places and as I walked by , the lamp in the hallway it like turned on , oh , oh . So I'm like , well , that's interesting .
And the tour guide was talking to the other people in the room . I'm like , hey , quick question . He's like , yeah , lamp , a motion lamp . He goes . Yes , it is Mike . Okay , but I was nonchalant , mike , I Thought it was funny . I love it . Not as funny as the cocaine , okay .
Or teats , yes , we get to hear more about teats next week . Yes , I'm so excited for the teats it's in my secret parts . Well , thank you both and John , and thank you so much for being on this episode . I hope to see you in episodes upcoming .
Thank you both so much . This was an honor to be able to join Wicked Wanderings .
You made us so smart , so anytime . Well you are smart .
Interesting , and this was just such a joy .
Thank you , thanks for coming .
Thanks for listening today . The show wouldn't be possible without our amazing producer and editor , rob Fitzpatrick , who works tirelessly behind the scenes to bring you the best content and a special thanks to Tyga sound prod for providing the captivating intro music .
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