¶ Ted Bundy's Victims
so yesterday I was in the car with my mom and she's driving and she has serious xm , so she's just kind of like going through the channels and she gets in the 90s . She's like , oh my god , I love this song . You won't believe what it was . I don't , I don't know what was it ? No scrubs by tlc . She's like singing it like her anthem .
She was cracking me up .
I was like , oh my god , mom , this is just iconic right now , that's how I know that I can be friends with your mom , because you cannot be my friend if you don't know all the words like you just , can't , you just ?
I just think it's so funny , I'm like so relatable . This is also the woman , though , back in the day when she still worked for hasbro . So at this point I think I was just like a pre-teen when florida's um big song came out , um that one . What was it called ? Low ? It was low .
Yeah , she had that as her ringtone , never mind you , right , because back then we didn't mind having our phone off silent right . That was a thing we have now . My phone lives inside . It went off in a meeting , so you can imagine , I mean , my mom was probably like in her late 40s by then .
I'm like , oh my gosh , it's just like people that meeting must have been like what ?
what's happening here ? Okay , okay .
Hi , I'm Hannah . Join me as I delve into true crime , paranormal encounters and all things spooky . Grab your flashlight and get ready to wander into the darkness with me . This is Wicked Wanderings , hello .
Courtney . Hi Hannah , how are you ? I'm great . How are you ?
Good we are Rob-less , rob-less Again . Sad face , sad face . But he's probably having a grandiose time at the Big E right now , probably .
Yeah , he probably doesn't even miss us .
Yes , and then , for those of you that may not know , the Big E is like the world's biggest fair , I feel . I mean probably not the world's biggest , but it feels the biggest to us . It is pretty big and it's a lot of fun .
There's a lot of good beer so if you know Rob , you know that's where he's going to be at . He is working , though he is . All jokes aside , he's a hard-working man he is . We have got to during this season we've got to give him up a little bit , but does we appreciate him for that ? Yay , shout out to rob . Shout out to rob .
don't edit this out , love you uh , last episode , or probably like two episodes ago , but this is the second half of ted bundy and I'm gonna . This episode's gonna be a little different because how because I'm I'm gonna delve really deep into the victims . I love that . And this isn't even all the victims . I haven't even done them all Like there's .
What I really like about Anne Rule with this book is that she gives details on them , like things about their life that they weren't just like a body . That was found .
Yeah , and that's so important . I feel like we try really hard to make sure that the victims are identified , understood and really given that kind of time that they deserve so . When she says second half everybody , she means this is the second part . Half implies there's two . To me I don't think there will only be two .
If you know Hannah and you know Ted Bundy , there's probably at least going to be four parts .
There's probably going to be at least four parts . I have these .
So if you don't like ted bundy , just go to the next episode that doesn't say anything about bundy . We'll help you guys out and clearly label that for you so let's begin .
So I'm gonna go a little bit back and forth between two different sources here , so I apologize for all of the people , but sorry . So the first one is joni lens . She actually survived the attack , oh wow , okay . Uh , obviously she's still a victim , because that's traumatizing as all get out uh , so her traumatic event happened on january 4th 1974 .
Uh , joni was a student at the university of washington and she was raped with a bed post . Oh , but she survived the attack . Like I said , god , some of the interesting information that I thought about like the whole thing happened to her was that happened during the night . Okay , she had a basement apartment .
Okay , keep that in mind because there's a lot of repetitions , um , clear pattern , the clear patterns . But what's also interesting is that there was this happening over multiple states , right on the western coast , and there seemed to be nothing that was giving Ted away .
And what I mean is , when you look at some of these serial killers , they leave their mark somehow , yeah , and there was nothing , like nothing that stood out . Like , okay , she was strangled . Okay , her face was beaten to a pulp , okay , but nothing that was like definitive Ted Bundy to link all of the women together .
Do you think that for some serial killers , leaving their signature is like part of the power that they get from the entire thing , like taking that ownership kind of like , I mean and not that I view it this way , but like a of art where you put your , your watermark or your signature on the back ? Maybe for him it wasn't so much about that ?
Like he , he was getting his power from something different . It didn't have to do with the recognition from other people , right ?
I , I , yeah , that makes total sense . Absolutely as morbid as that sounds . Yeah , and so she lived , but she had severe brain damage from the beating that she got , so she was in a coma and , uh , when she finally woke she obviously she didn't remember anything .
She actually was called back in by the police to try to give any identifying marks or who he was , and she's like I can't like I , she's loved you , but yeah so that really interrupted her whole life , unfortunately sometimes I think the brain also plays a role in helping you forget things oh yeah traumatic .
I mean , maybe that sounds too out there in left field , but I think sometimes the brain is like okay , we're protecting ourselves . Right , we could remember this , but we're just not going to , because we're not going to get through this the next one is linda ann healy .
She was 21 . She died february 1st 1974 . Healy was a University of Washington student . She was kidnapped and her body was found in 1975 on Taylor Mountain near Issaquah , washington . So Linda Healy was also taken from a basement basement apartment . I see the correlation already . She wanted to work with handicapped children .
That's what she was going to school for and I knew that would just like .
It just tugs a little extra at my heartstrings for the obvious reason yeah , so I really liked that one , donna Gail Manson .
She died March 12 , 1974 . After confessing the Mansons' murder , bundy said he burned her skull in Liz Kendall's his girlfriend's fireplace . Oh my gosh . Yeah . So Donna Manson was a small woman . She was only five foot only , weighed about 100 pounds , and that's also a pattern you're going to see with a lot of these women .
They were very , very petite , okay , very tiny . She was a gifted musician . She was a flutist . A flutist yes , that's a fun word to say flutist and it was not abnormal for her to just go off for a few days , okay , uh . So she was not reported missing right away , more like a free spirit , yeah , very free spirit , big hitchhiker .
She sometimes would hitchhike and then she would have these grandiose stories to come home you said this was the 70s , correct .
Yes , that makes sense .
That wasn't , as it wasn't looked at the same way that we do now , right , uh , so yeah , it was not abnormal for her to go missing , which , honestly , that happens with a couple of these women Like , oh , she goes off , she's a free spirit , right , looking for adventure . The next person is Susan Rancourt . She was 18 . And she died April 17 , 1974 .
Rancourt was abducted on campus at Central Washington State College and her skull was later found near Taylor Mountain where Bundy placed several skulls over the years . Her skull was later found near Taylor Mountain where Bundy placed several skulls over the years .
So , to talk a little bit about Susan Rancourt , she differed from the other victims , so we've been looking at women with brown hair , right , and she had blonde long hair , okay , and blue eyes and he did have a physical type .
I remember talking about that last time . Yes , he had a very distinct physical type . Yes , so I don't know with this one if it was just opportunistic .
Wrong place , wrong time yeah .
She saw something .
Yes , so she was working a lot to pay her way through school , so a lot of these women were attending college . Yeah , he liked those college campuses . It was easy for him to get young females .
His type yeah , to get young females . His type yeah , yep .
And also there was a lot of talk about the areas that he was going into , and especially in Utah . They were big Mormon societies where women weren't scared to leave their homes .
And something interesting too is that I actually talked about Bundy with my mom one time and she couldn't even talk about it because it was just that time when she was growing up , where , like it freaks her out still now .
She remembered the moments when he was out there and they didn't know who he was Right , and even though it was happening on the Western Coast , most of it doesn't mean he can't travel .
And the inspiring piece of serial killers , right ? I mean , how often do they have those moments where they're like this is not the work of the serial killer we thought we were chasing . This is somebody else who's trying to be like them .
It's a copycat , which is scary too , because you're putting all that media coverage up to try to catch the person and you're giving these other people kind of some ideas of things to do .
The next victim is Roberta Parks and she was 20 . She died April 17 , 1974 . And Parks was abducted from Oregon State University and her skull was found during the same search at Taylor Mountain that found Susan Rancourt's skull . Bundy said he raped and killed her .
That was two April 17s . The one before that was April 17 , wasn't it ?
It was Actually . That's something I talk about . Sorry to get ahead of you . No , no , no , Don't , it's okay . So Roberta Parks people close to her wondered if she committed suicide . Okay , that was another reason why people weren't surprised if she went missing , was there indicators for her ? Yes , so I guess she could be going to these depressive states .
Okay , it sounds like she really tried to live a happy life . Right , it sounds like she really tried to live a happy life . But no , she was killed by Bundy . But that's why she wasn't reported missing right away either . Our next victim is Brenda Caraball . She died June 1st 1974 . Ball was abducted from a town south of Seattle .
Like many of Bundy's victims , her skull was also found at Taylor . Mountain , that seems to be his spot Right . Just the skull ? Yeah , yeah , I guess . So I think it seemed like where he was dropping bodies . It was pretty dense for us , so I wouldn't be surprised if just animals just took bones away and make sense brenda was a free spirit .
It took 19 days for them to claim that she was missing . Wow , uh , she was very petite . She goes with the mo .
¶ Bundy's Method and Victim Selection
She was last seen talking to some handsome brown-haired man with his arm in a sling . Hmm , yes , which is another thing that's gonna keep coming up a man with arm in a sling or he having a cast on his leg .
So he was definitely trying to work some kind of I'm injured , I need assistance , right , because he was also , it sounds like , preying on women who were compassionate . Yes , they were free spirited , they had that . I mean , the one woman I'm sorry I forgot her name was wanting to help handicapped children .
I mean , yes , it seems like she was going after a certain type of small person , big heart kind of thing , right ?
And also with Bundy , which we talked about in the other episode , like he was a pretty clean cut man . Yeah , handsome man with brown hair Handsome that he was very charismatic . He was very intelligent when he spoke , so he didn't come off as that creep Right .
That you would imagine .
Right when you're imagining a serial killer who attacks young women , you imagine a creep like when you think robert picton , okay , like he looks like a creep , but ted bundy just didn't right sheep and wolves clothing and sheep's clothing yeah , george ann hawkins is next . Um , she went missing june 11 , 1974 .
Hawkins disappeared while walking to her boyfriend's house and her body has never been found . Bundy confessed to knocking her unconscious and then killing her . So , with George N Hawkins , she was a good student , she was big into Greek life , as was her boyfriend .
So when you know I don't know much about Greek life in college , but it sounds like when you have Greek row , all the houses are in a row , right , typically , yeah , obviously in a row . You don greek row , with all the houses are in a row , right , typically , yeah , um , obviously in a row here , I don't know .
And so , um , she was in one and then her boyfriend was in another and it was only the span of like a couple hundred feet .
Yeah , the house was usually like the frats in one side right for turning something so she went to go visit her boyfriend one night and then afterwards she said good night , left , left and literally like people like saw her outside of their windows , like oh , there she is walking home . She went missing , 90 feet from her house .
Like literally she was almost home and then she went missing .
That makes you wonder , like , was he strategically targeting these people or was he just ? Hey , I'm going to be in that area . If something comes up , it comes up .
It seemed like like he . It may not have been a long-term stalking , but some other uh victims that I'm gonna get into he seemed to almost what's the word I'm looking for case like case an area for a while to see if he could find his type right .
And then it was like if you were the first person who made that description . Lottery drawn in your not favor , I guess . So this .
Something is really interesting . So Ann Rule , who was the author of the book , and that new Ted Bundy . She talks about a psychic that she knew that was really big into astrology . And what's interesting is that this psychic was trying to find a pattern with all of these missing women . And she contacts Ann Rule and she's like I think I found a pattern .
And he's like all right , whatever . So she said he either or this person because I didn't know it was Ted . Yet this person will only has only been attacking during these three moon cycles . And she's like I have an envelope here and you cannot open it until such and such date . And she's like I want you to give it to one of your , your detective friends .
And so ann's like listen , these cops are not gonna believe in astrology she's like please just humor me , give it to them , you'll find someone .
So ann rule ends up going to this conference and this , this big um conference , for I guess you could say Cop conference , yeah , and she's sitting there and they're all talking about these cases of these missing women , and the gentleman up there is like listen , I will take any , any lead you can give me , even if it's something from a psychic .
And so Anne has this envelope in her pocket , burning a hole in her pocket . I might as well .
She's like I'm going to get laughed at by these guys because already she's a woman Right and they're like OK whatever , and so she gives it to the gentleman .
She said you cannot open it until this date and just hold that thought and I'm going to go over some more victims and we're going to come back to that Remember that everybody . Remember that there's an there's an envelope and we're not allowed to open
¶ The Lake Sammamish Abductions
it . Our next victim is janice ought , and she was 23 and she died july 14 1974 . Ought was also abducted from lake sammamish state park on the same day as denise nasland . Her body was also found in the same location in issaquah .
So , janice , she went to this local beach , which seemed to be a lake beach , to get some sun and she was approached by this man with an arm sling and he's like , asking for her help . He's like I got to get my boat attached to my car but I only have one arm . Is there any way that you can help me ?
Of course she goes with him and no one sees her again . Of course she goes with him and no one sees her again . Her husband was actually away at some I think it was like a basic training , military training and he was waiting that night for a call from her . He's like my wife always calls me at night , why am I not hearing from her ?
And so he ended up falling asleep and he says distinctly that he heard his wife calling his name and basically calling his name and saying asking for help , like please help me . And then he woke up and he got the phone call that his wife was missing . Wow , isn't that so sad that is very sad .
Oh my God , it's just like . Oh , I got like chills thinking about it , it just tells you , like when your gut is telling you about something like you're like okay .
Sometimes , like him , he couldn't do anything about it . Right , but he was right , he was right , he . This is strange . Next victim is denise naslin , who was 18 and she died on july 14 1974 . Naslin disappeared from lake sammamish state park . Two months later . Her body was found on a hillside near isaac now with denise naslin .
She went missing the same day as janice did and on that same beach .
I was just gonna say that that was another 14th .
Yes , so denise gets approached hey , can you help me with my boat ? And of course , again she all right , go and help . And of course , she went missing . What is really interesting about this is that they happened four hours apart . Hmm , okay , I'm thinking about this . I'm like why , why ?
two women in one day At the same place At the same place . So I thought that was very strange . It makes me wonder , like the dynamics of that place . Is it a crowded place , Is it ?
a desolate place . It sounded like a hot spot , like a hot spot for people to go to during the summer .
So there were tons and tons of people there . Maybe there was just more than one person who met his type . So he was like , well , the opportunity's here . It sounds ballsy to me . To me too , it's almost like he was seeking that adrenaline . Yeah , Remember that envelope .
Right , that envelope was the prediction of another victim during that weekend , and then there were two . So not only was the psychic correct .
She was correct . Times two . Yes , now again . So was the date of opening the envelope , like on the Monday after that .
It was the envelope said between that Friday and Sunday there's going to be another murder and there were two .
Doesn't that make you wonder ? I don't know how much of that psychic stuff I am interested by it , but I don't know how much of it . I believe and maybe there's because there's some people who are actual psychics and some people who are like media psychics . But that's crazy . How do you just predict that ?
people probably assumed she was the one killing people maybe , but I will say that she was not correct after that . But it is kind of weird that why ? And I mean , I don't think bundy understood that he might have been affected by moon signs . No , probably not .
I think that even from my religious background , I think that we are more connected to the earth and the atmosphere than we know . Oh , a hundred percent , like . I mean , even the tides affect us somehow , you know . So I I don't know , I think there's something to be said for it .
It's definitely really interesting , especially because it was too . Did he have other days in the same year where he had taken more than one victim ? Not where he had taken more than one victim Not from what I understand yet , but I mean there could be , or that we're just not aware of . In general , Right .
So , like I said before , there was four hours apart . They searched the surrounding woods , they sent divers into the water , they looked at people's developed photos of that day , not because they wanted to see the happy people having a cookout on the water . They wanted the guy in the sling in the background . Exactly Nothing . Nothing could be found .
They actually used infrared . They went up in a helicopter , they looked at . They had like these infrared cameras of some sort . So they said . So they said when there's vegetation move like that , it should turn up red . But every time they found it it was just like a dead tree , right . No bodies could be found .
Women underwent hypnosis in order to like do you remember seeing a man in a sling ? Do you have any identifying markers ? Nothing , and the people that were going to that lake afterwards dwindled dramatically and if they did two in one day ?
yeah , would you let your kids go there ? No , probably not . Would you go there yourself ? Probably not definitely not .
Uh , women would double up to go to the bathroom . After that , women would hold knives or guns under their blankets just in case , like people were petrified . Uh , so people did start returning to the lake after that was kind of like you have this big event happen everything dwindles and that's like all right , everything seems fine again .
Everyone started to forget about it .
Forget about it if it's not close to home though I think something to talk about , too , is the cops and the detectives , and what I appreciate again about and rule is that the focus isn't all on bundy like this was affecting a lot of people , not just people being scared , but , like the officers that were running these cases , they started developing like heart
issues .
Oh , stress of not being able to figure it out .
Yes , heart attacks were ensuing , just the overall health of all of them was declining .
The sprawl of the impact that these types of cases have , I feel like , is often lost on people . The psychological impact it can , I mean , because even though there were some people who went back to the beach right , I'm sure there are people who lived for a long time just terrified of bodies of water and they're not even sure why .
But it relates all back to that .
So of course people are circulating all kinds of stories about I saw , no , I did , I did uh . So things that people were looking for was obviously a man with arm in a sling or a cast on his leg . He would usually ask people to help him carry something .
Sometimes he would have like a briefcase that he would just keep dropping that he would ask women to help him with . So smart , yeah , volkswagen bug . Oh , okay that we know about the famous bug , if you know anything about Bundy . Sometimes he would ask them to help start his car because because he couldn't get it started .
But that would also a way for them to get in the car right and just knock them out and push them to the passenger seat . And then one interesting thing was that a woman said that there was no passenger seat , which creeped her out . It gave her a really bad vibe , which I could see why it would . I mean , it's a perfect place to put a body .
But right , yeah , and most of the time , like even cars that people remove the back seat of , it's like okay , because they're not going to have people in the back , but every car you're like okay . Well , I would want the ability to take one person someplace if I needed to I'm actually going to read a quote and here I am quoting , thank you .
So here I am quoting , and so I kept on trying to find the answer to the awful puzzle , believing that the killer , when he was found , would prove to be a man with a record of violence , a man who should never have been allowed to walk the streets , someone who must surely have shown signs of a deranged mind in the past , someone who had been let out of
prison too soon . That was ann writing that and I just I underlined it because I thought it was interesting , because , like again I'm gonna bring this up he did not look like a killer , right like he . He really was such an upstanding citizen and like , yeah , he had his quirks , but who doesn't ? But nothing .
That was like , oh , that couldn't be our ted , like someone you just wouldn't think of doing that .
I feel like you read about that so commonly , too , where I and I know the episode that I just did um about tony costa . He was definitely somebody that caused a lot of attention , so people were very much like there's something wrong with that guy , but they never knew just how much was wrong with him , right ?
I feel like a lot of times and hindsight is 2020 people are like , okay , this person doesn't fit the description , but it's because we are , as a society , super judgmental of people , so we think like if they're going to be a serial killer , surely they must already be a criminal , surely they must be a low life , surely they must not have any money , they're
dirty , etc surely we would know right , but the bottom line is what people visually present , as is not who they are on the inside , and I think we know that , but we don't know that , no matter if that makes sense , and I think we all have .
I shouldn't say I mean , we all have our weird quirks , right , but I think when you're not looking at everything put together and you're just seeing the puzzle pieces , you disregard it ?
yeah , absolutely . I mean , somebody could look at the fact that you and I sit here for fun on a sunday and do this and they could say , well , those two girls , that's a red flag , sure , and you know what .
Honestly , if somebody else has said , I'd be like you know what , you're probably right , but there's so many things that could be a false red flag or green flag about something ? yes , absolutely .
That's why I think dating apps are so scary too , like , oh god , yeah , think about like the , and I've always thought that , like , dating apps are like the perfect place for somebody who's trying to meet people online . So everybody be cautious about dating apps .
Yes , please , I mean even just be cautious in public too , but Everybody be cautious about dating apps .
Yes , please , I mean even just be cautious in public too , but definitely be cautious of the dating apps .
¶ Safety and Caution in Online Dating
I met Rob on a dating site and I mean I look back now and I met some sketchy guys before Rob .
And I've been on dating apps too and it's there is some , some very interesting people where you meet them and you're like yeah , I , I have questionable choices and things that I've done . I've you know . They're like , oh , just come , and you're like OK , yeah , oh yeah , I sorry , mom .
I entered some guys homes that I probably shouldn't have and then found out some fetishes that were just not .
OK , right , right .
And I had a hard no for myself on dating apps where it was like I'm driving myself to the date , I'm meeting you there , we're going in public , and I think part of that for me was that if I was in public , I could probably get away , which is so sad that women and men right People have to think about those kinds of things now , whereas , like when I'm
talking to my parents , they didn't have to think about that kind of thing . And , of course , online dating wasn't a thing but being set up with random people , you could easily get set up with somebody who is not on par with the rest of society .
Right , right Very easily . So everyone just cautious on the dating app . Cautious , stay weird , make a scene .
Know who you're going out with . Honestly , I share my location to Hannah constantly . She shares hers to me . Hannah knows every single thing I'm doing in life . If she sees me in a certain town past a certain time , she's like what are you doing out there , even if I'm working folks , it's just it sounds crazy .
But find someone you trust , share your location , let them know where you are , you know .
Because before that was a thing , it could save somebody's life . It could , and before it was a thing with the location . I remember writing notes on my bed Like if I'm not back by this time , mom , this is where I am Like to to , to North Street .
Just so you know . Right , right , and now it's easier , I mean , and of course your phone could always be put someplace else , but you know , I have friends who are out there doing their thing and they'll share their location just for the day even . Hey , I'm going out with this guy .
If I'm not home by this time , I want you to call me with an excuse so I can go home , absolutely so stay safe Be weird . Dating advice , as told by Hannah and Courtney .
So Erin , at this point , was in her feels , as I'm going to put it In her feels , got it ?
It couldn't be her ted not dead right , not ted , not ted , not my ted that sat with me in a crisis center , that helped me save people's lives , that gave me marriage advice , relationship advice , walked me to my car at night and made sure I was in there before he walked away but the more you say those things , the more it does make sense , because we've
talked about serial killers serve different functions .
Just like you know people and behavior and anybody who knows ABA , we have functions for behavior . Serial killers are not just . I mean , sometimes I guess , but he was not somebody who was doing this just to do it . There was a purpose , there was something behind it , and so he wasn't attacking people close to him . Those people were , I somehow get the vibe .
They were off limits which I found interesting , like the women that he dates or in relationships with no violence . No violence even , like I know , old wasn't his thing , but he had these women with children in his life or older couples , and he respected them .
Yeah , and he loved them and he really respected them . Yeah , he gave them advice , he protected them . It's almost like it almost reads from his dating history that he felt so wronged by these young women because that was a lot when he was younger that now he's taking it out on other people who match their description .
but he would never hurt them because he loved them and I , I did try finding which is probably a weird thing for me to google , but I tried finding what his mom's height and weight was , because really , yeah , but I mean she did have him young , right , right and was she dark haired ? Right , well , I really . I was like , how much is she weight ?
Was she petite ? But I couldn't find it .
Right , sometimes people will do the opposite . Yeah , sometimes people will . You know , really , those mommy issues deeply rooted , I mean going from the same type .
Right , because it sounded like he respected his grandparents , especially his grandfather , so I'm like they did a lot for him . So I'm like maybe it's a mommy issue Could be .
It's definitely an issue . It's definitely an issue . It's definitely an issue .
So Ann knows people on the force , right . So she contacts someone and she's like can you look up Ted for me , ted Bundy , to see if he has a car ? She's like because I know he doesn't have a car , but can you just see ? They're like yeah , sure . So they look him up . Sure enough , got a car . What does he have bug ? He has a bug .
She's like no way , there's no way , you're joking . He's like no , really like I see a volkswagen bug registered to theodore bundy . So this , of course , puts her like in the weirdest situation , right . And so the guy's like I'm gonna go on patrol , go to this address .
Sure enough he doesn't see one , but he ends up on a list , but it's there , he has it in the system Right . And Ted at this time wouldn't show up for work . Sometimes he would say he was sick , he was acting irregular .
Which , of course , I'm sure those days lined up with the missing women , but probably document keeping wasn't Probably right , Because the Suicide Hotline probably has a ton of employees who work for it . Oh , this wasn't even the suicide hotline at this point .
This was his regular job .
This was a different job . Okay , yeah , the suicide hotline's done . This is a different job . And they just were like oh , Ted , like you gotta show up for work .
That's just Ted .
So remember Meg , who he was dating . Yep , treating like shit . Yeah , friend shoved a newspaper in this girl's face and she was like does this guy look familiar ? Because at this point I'm sure there's been sketches or descriptions and they're like .
And because people are like , I know his name was ted , because he was giving a real name , and she's like this is your ted . And she's like no , no , it can't be like . Poor meg , she's head over heels for this guy , giving him money , giving his time , and he's in love with someone else .
He was in love with someone else , even though he he threw off a lot of engagement , but like meg was like a safety thing for him that she'll always be there . And her friend didn't like bundy like . She was like absolutely not , this has to be him . So two things that have pissed this friend off is that bundy treats her friend like shit .
He treats Meg like crap and she's like I don't like this for you , which is a good friend , right ? Yeah , hell , yeah , you know , if my man wasn't treating me right , you'd be like Hannah , what the fuck . Like , nah , I'd be like Rob , what the fuck . And secondly , she found him in her backyard late at night for no reason .
So he wasn't sleeping there , no , he was just stalking her backyard , and her and her friend don't live together . No , so wait . Yeah , I would have called the police for starters . I don't know if she did , because to me that's just extra weird and I feel like I'm trying to put myself in the perspective of Meg , right , she really loves this guy .
She thinks he's the one . There's lots of red flags . We've all been there , right , ladies ? We've all been there , and someone's telling you no , no , no , no , no . And she's the mother of a child . So , like , how do you look past ? He was lurking around in my backyard and you don't live together .
All I'd say was that he didn't have an excuse to be there , so I'm curious what he possibly could have said a lot like .
It's not like it was meg's house where he could say oh , I thought I dropped my keys yesterday when I was leaving , or he was looking for a lost dog .
I don't know , I don't even have any guesses okay .
So meg has some justifiable , meg's friend has some justifiable reasons yes , got it , and it really deteriorated their friendship , unfortunately I'm sure meg's friend just couldn't take it anymore .
She was like I was like , honestly , sister .
You poor meg . So she ended up losing the person that she loved , who she thought was the one out of this , and her best friend , yeah poor meg and she still had her daughter to take care of poor meg , I know .
So meg noticed that bundy's pulling away and he's having no sex drive . But let's be honest here , 2020 , right , hindsight's , 2020 . Looking now , I mean his needs have been met , yep , and changed , not for the better . So the poor thing is she's like she's so okay . So he finally got into law school , right , but it's in a different state .
He's going to utah and she knew he was gonna have to move and she was already sad he's gonna be far away . So they're long distance , right . So she throws him a going away party and she's like all right , this will get his sex drive going , like he'll want to make love to me because I did this nice thing for him . Wrong , wrong , ain't wrong .
So when he said goodbye the next day , she just got a peck of a kiss . That's it , bye-bye .
Ted Wow , yep Douche .
Douche , Total douche . Next victim Nancy Wilcox . She was 16 . That's kind of young for him . It seems to range between 16 and 23 .
Okay .
That seems to be his sweet spot . She's missing since October 2nd 1974 . Wilcox went missing in Holiday , utah after she went out to buy a pack of gum , but her body has never been found . Bundy confessed to sexually assaulting and strangling her , then burying her body near Capitol Reef reef national park located about 200 miles south of state lake city .
Salt lake skitties , salt lake city , salt lake city . Next victim is melissa smith . She was 17 . She died october 26 1974 . Smith , the teenage daughter of the midvale police chief in salt lake city , oh boy , was raped and beaten by bundy and her body was found in the mountains nearby . So a little bit about melissa .
Uh , so interesting , and didn't always talk about every victim , so , but I'm trying to give a little backstory on some of them . She was getting ready for a sleepover and obviously , with her father being a cop , he wants her to be careful , right ? Uh ?
So she was getting ready for a sleepover and obviously , with her father being a cop , he wants her to be careful , right ? So she was getting ready for this sleepover . She calls the house that she's supposed to go to . No one answers . She's like all right , I guess I'll wait a little bit . So then she gets this like panic phone call from her friend .
She's having this argument with a lover and the friend needs comfort and the friend worked at a local pizza joint . So she's like all right , I'll come to you , we could talk this out . She's being a good friend , right ? Unfortunately , the route that she has to take is not direct and it's not all on main roads of course not .
She has to go like down an embankment , she has to go through like a wooded area , all for trying to be a good person , trying to be a good friend . So she gets there and she stays till about 10 pm when it closes and she's like all right , now it's time for me to go home , get my stuff for the sleepover and then go to sleepover .
Unfortunately , she didn't even make it home and nine days later they found her body and I guess it was really , really gruesome , like he's getting really violent .
And I feel like he and maybe this is just the location and I'm not sure yet how I feel about it entirely but it seems like some bodies he goes to great extent to hide and some he's like , eh yeah , it sounds like he has like dumping grounds and some he's like , eh yeah , it sounds like he has like dumping grounds and some he's like this one can be a
pedestal , like it makes me wonder about which ones the skulls go to I believe it was Taylor Mountain and which ones he's like I'll bury that one someplace in this woods . But there's got to be some type of pattern that we don't know about , whether it's distance to that area , whether it's mindset when it happened or type of crime .
There's got to be something that correlates those things , because we keep hearing either they went missing and he confessed , and then nobody ever found their body , or it's like oh yeah , they were on Taylor Mountain , or at least their head was yeah .
I agree .
I agree . There's something interesting about that .
There wasn't just one dumping ground .
And then , like you said , like sometimes it seems he just I'll just roll them down this hill , right , maybe they'll get found , or maybe they , or maybe it's like he was in an area , I mean , and obviously not understanding what that area looks like . He also moved during his crimes , so he went from one area .
Then he got into law school , as you mentioned , so perhaps , as he was getting to know the new area , he hadn't established a dumping ground yet . Yeah , it's all very good points .
Our next victim is Laura Aime , and she was 17 . And she went missing October 31st 1974 . Oh , happy Halloween , I know . After disappearing on Halloween night , aimee's body was later found frozen in Provo Canyon . So something different about Laura . She was almost six feet Too tall for him .
This girl was a freaking beast Too tall for him , I know Right , yeah , too tall for him . This girl was a freaking beast too tall for him . I know right , yeah . So she went missing halloween night , like I said , and she . This is so sad . Her father ended up identifying her on thanksgiving day in the morgue gosh and her face was unrecognizable . It's terrible .
And so the only way that he knew it was her was because she had scars on her left arm from when she was 11 years old and her horse like , threw her off and she got her hand all in barbed wire , so that was the only identifying mark that he could find that is that is so sad .
They did find alcohol in her system , but not enough like where it would have impacted her to be able to run away or fight back , right . But Anne makes a really good point in the book where she's like even if someone did hear her scream I mean , it's Halloween night , it's not unusual to hear
¶ Surviving Ted Bundy's Attack
screaming .
The perfect crime . Right Blood , the perfect crime . Weird things the perfect crime , Right . Did the perfect crime . Weird things the perfect crime , Right . Did she match the ? I don't know if they said this . Did she match the rest of his description ? The dark hair slender ?
or was it I ?
think , I think it did okay let me check , because I actually I'm just curious now . I'm like trying to profile him myself .
I did mark all of them with their initials . So it did say she had model like slimness , but it doesn't say what color her hair was I'm assuming , if it was not the same , they would have called attention to that as well . Yeah , yeah , but pretty long-haired girl , slender and slim , okay , so perhaps she just caught his eye .
And so then , at this point too , Meg's friend who's not really her friend anymore heard the news about these , Because I guess she had family in Utah . And she finally contacted Meg and was like listen , you need to call . You need to call and tell him your suspicions about your boyfriend . And so finally Anne did , and it put his name back in the system .
So , just like ann had got his name in the system , meg now yes meg was like two and two isn't for him , but , like I said , the friendship ended and she didn't have her anymore , unfortunately which is sad because I'm sure , as all this came out , that was an emotional situation as well .
I can't actually imagine how you would feel knowing that somebody you were with harmed that many women and that you were spared . It's probably really alarming to think like , wow , I was that close to all of this . I had no idea , could I have saved those people ?
I can imagine your own trauma emotionally from being just close to oh yeah , absolutely and actually having a young daughter too must have been .
Do we know how ?
old the daughter was when they were dating . No , like an eyeball of like , she was a little girl . I don't know why I want to say at 11 for some reason yeah , so she was almost like scarily approaching where he would have started to consider Mm-hmm , which makes you wonder like , was he just staying with her for the money piece ?
Was it which makes you wonder like , was he just staying with her for the money piece ? Was it honestly ? She was processing her own trauma from her ex that right went to federal prison . So , oh , poor man , she doesn't want to be like , no , there's no way , I made the wrong choice twice . Yeah , our next victim is carol durant . She was 18 .
She survived the attack okay so it's only two now so far who have survived . Yes , okay , yep , uh .
November 8th 1974 in the ted bundy tapes , which that's a tall size , so it's only two now so far who have survived . Yes , only two , november 8 , 1974 . In the Ted Bundy tapes , which that's a tall size , so it's something you can look up if you want to see it or read it or watch it . The Ted Bundy tapes , that was .
Thank you . Whatever you want to do , we can put the link in the show notes . Thank , you .
Courtney Durant says that Bundy identified himself as a police officer , told her that her car was broken into and asked her to go down to the station . As he attempted to handcuff her , she fought off Bundy and escaped . So she gets approached . She goes to the mall . She loves going to the mall . It was around like 6.30 pm .
And she decides to go into Walden Books .
You know like a book really does right Girl after her own heart . And this gentleman just like comes up alongside her and was like hey , are you driving such and such car ? Yeah , can you tell me where your license plate is ? So she does .
I would have said no and he's like , yeah , I think uh , my fellow cop friend is uh detaining someone that tried getting into your car . And she's like okay , this is very strange . Like how did you know I was the one driving that car right and if he wasn't in uniform again .
Again , ladies , be aware of your surroundings . Don't go with a random man .
So he knew too much , which was freaking her out . Like you said , he cases them Right , so she walks out with him . She's like can I see your ID , right ? He laughs it off , keeps going Again . I would not have left the world in books .
So she asked him his name and he claimed to be a police officer , gave her a fake name , so this time he did not address him as Ted . Normally he says Ted , yeah , right . And again she's like can I see your badge ? So finally he just flashes something gold , really quick . She doesn't see a number , she doesn't see anything that says police station on it .
But she's like okay , so they get her car and he's like I want you to unlock it and see if there's anything missing . So she goes through the driver's side , she's like no , like everything seems fine . And he's like well , now I want you to check the other side , go on the passenger side . And she's like no , like everything seems here .
He tries jiggling the handle to get in that way but can't weird . Okay , handle must have been broken or something , so he's like well , I want you to try to identify the person that we caught . So he walks down it sounds like a strip mall .
He walks down the strip mall in the back right near the dumpsters , tries to enter the back door and he says oh , we're gonna go to um , a substation , never mind that this was a laundromat . He was trying to get into um , but she didn't know that at the time .
So she thought this was a laundromat he was trying to get into , but she didn't know that at the time . So she thought this was a substation , right , jiggling , the handle can't get in . He's like all right , well , why don't we get in my car together to go to the headquarters ? And Red flag , I'll follow you , of course . What kind of car is it ?
Bug , it's a bug , she's like this get into a cop car . It's not a cop car . You know what , though ? This girl's awareness and having been like a red flag red flag , he was sloppy and the fact that she was able to see all that was why she was able to get away , because she was half expecting it .
Yes , consciously or unconsciously , she was half expecting it she gets in the car and he tells her to put on her seatbelt and she's like I'm not putting on my seatbelt , which gave her props for because she wanted to be able to run away if possible .
He starts going in the opposite way of the police station , so by this point I could just hear sirens in my own brain . Jump out the car Jump out the car so he pulls into the school parking lot , handcuffs one of her hands . By this time she's screaming .
No one can hear her right , because I'm sure it's a weekend or it's after hours .
You said 6 , 30 , so there's nobody at the school she's full-on panicking , moving around a lot trying to get him off . So he's trying to handcuff her other hand . Mrs ends up handcuffing the same hand , so he has both the handcuffs on one hand and he puts a gun to her head . She falls out of the car .
He comes back around the gun had already fallen out of his hand . When she's like , oh my god , this , maybe this is my time to escape right ends up , he has a crowbar in his hand and tries to beat her in the head . It seems like adrenaline must have taken over this girl , because you hear about those moms that like lift the whole car .
Yes , so she all of a sudden had all this strength to hold off his hand so she doesn't get hit with the crowbar . She kicks him in the cojones yes , talking about starts running away . She hits the middle of the road . She's screaming profusely . This couple ends up stopping because , first of all , like who the hell is ?
running . Why is she got handcuffs on one hand ?
yes , they see her , they put her , they put her in the car . They're like oh , you're safe , we're going to bring you to the police station . The gentleman of the couple ends up carrying her into the police station because she can't even walk , she's so scared , and she ends up giving her account of what happened . So the cops are like all right .
So they go to the police station , you report it and then you go home and I think that's the part people don't talk about and then you go home and this person you know what they look like and they know what you look like , they know what you were driving so if your car is registered to yourself or she was young so to her parent , he now can figure out
where you live , he can show up at your house . I mean , you're talking about a whole world of being afraid . I can't imagine that . Yeah , I don't think I'd ever want to leave that police station . I think I would just be like I live here now . Thank you , I know , give me that first cell , I'll make it pretty .
You probably never want to go to a bookstore alone at that point , I mean it makes you free to do anything alone , I'm sure , but she made it out alive , which is a blessing in itself , unlike the poor other women , right ?
so it's only two , just to have it again , it's only two people who have ever survived so far the next one is deborah kent .
She was 17 . She died november 8th 1974 bungee confessed day november 8th .
Yeah , you're right , that's the same day again . You are so right .
Good catch , I didn't see that he's got a lot of duplicate days happening in there but I'm sure by this time he had an itch .
Yeah , at least the first I'm sure the other girl was first , so when she got away he was like shit , like I have to get this itch . Yep , and I'm sure the other girl was first , so when she got away he was like shit , like I have to get this itch Yep .
So Buddy confessed to murdering Kent and burying her body in the same area as Nancy Wilcox .
Was it more violent , this time again , I'm assuming when somebody gets away , he probably takes that out on the next victim .
So I think that was the same for his last pattern . If you think about it , somebody had Well , something that I actually just noticed , since you mentioned , it was the same day . So , it ended up happening at a school which I didn't notice it before At the same school .
So Deborah ended up attending like a musical at a high school with her parents , okay , and her little brother didn't want to go , so they dropped him off , kind of like an escape park .
Okay , so Deborah- ended up attending like a musical at a high school with her parents .
Okay , and her little brother didn't want to go , so they dropped him off , kind of like an escape park , okay , some place nearby , and Bundy was found inside of the theater in this school and he actually approached someone backstage at first and he's like I need help , I need help Something with my car , and the woman's like I'm too busy , I'm trying to get a
play started here , right , and then finally she sees him again . He's just like standing around , like pacing , like it was odd , it was an itch .
It was definitely an itch . It was like that woman didn't fall for it . Now I need to find a third woman to approach for the day .
She's like why is he here ? Right , this is a high school musical . Too young to be a parent of a high schooler , why are you here ? I know you're not helping creepy . Yes , so the play
¶ Ted Bundy's Mysterious Disappearances
. The play went longer than expected . So deborah's like why don't I go pick up my younger brother ? You guys finish the play , I'll come back and get you . And her father had apparently suffered a heart attack not too long ago . Okay , so for her not to come back was strange .
Apparently she never left , so when she didn't even get in the car to leave to go pick him up .
The car was still there outside oh my gosh , the car was still there . The family , both the brother and the parents , were like what the hell , hell , why is no one picking me up , right ? So they called the cops and they actually found the key to the handcuffs in the parking lot , the same key , the one that was on the other girl's wrist .
And it fit that , because they took the handcuffs , I would fit it . So they were also saying , like you know , smith and Wesson , right , they actually have handcuffs too , which I didn't know . I thought they were just yeah , no , they do that .
And and the guns , um , so the those handcuff keys don't fit the official police handcuffs like smith and wesson , so it's probably like those cheap ones you can get like a store somewhere , right , but it fit those keys . They're like , okay , that's interesting , but there's like nothing else that showed us .
And from the girl before they tried fingerprinting like the doorknob he touched at the laundromat nothing . Fingerprints on the handcuffs nothing everything was smeared .
From what I know now it sounds like they really tried everything and they nothing , and that's tough too , because if he was out of school during the time of a play , if he had touched any doorknobs or things , tons of people that day alone have touched them I guess the neighborhood apartments had heard a scream around like 10 30 , but they walked out into the
parking lot and didn't see anything . No , and like I mean , if you live in a neighborhood where there's people , I mean I , I do , and I live in a relatively like commercial and residential area . Sometimes people drive by and they just shout , just to shout .
So if I went outside every time somebody shouted , I would be outside like three , four times a night right , living in the city there's so many noises I hear I just disregard it , I mean there's people out there screaming right now for all we know we've got headphones on right right , exactly .
So it's not uncommon for people to just be like , oh okay , I didn't think much of it again , right haunting so ted is in law school .
As we know , he's doing shitty .
He can barely keep a c average . I mean he's spending most of his time killing people , so right exactly .
His grades are just going under , which is unlike the earlier ted we talked about . That was an exceptional student very dedicated , yeah , wanting to learn mandarin because china was the future like right this is not the same ted . He was seen drinking a lot more .
Uh , he wasn't faithful , as we know , to meg um , and though he would get really angry if meg was not home when he called .
So he was controlling , so he wanted her home and he wanted her to be available to him 24 7 available and faithful , that was the word . Well , yeah , I'm sure that was like a home , a home base for him secure and her ex-friend would still get phone calls from ted .
Where is she ? Why isn't she home , which , I'm sure , pissed her off even ?
more .
I'm sure she's probably like the fuck , if I know it's your fault november 18 , 1974 , and rule talks about a surgery that she had to have . I don't know what the surgery was , but her mom had to come and watch her children right , she had to be put under .
She wakes up from the surgery and her mom's like you got a really strange phone call and she's like they asked for you by name because at first she was like , oh , strange phone call , it's probably like a wrong number or whatever right , right she's like no , they asked for ann by name . She said it was a man .
Like I said , asked for her by name , wouldn't leave a message because mom's , like she's not available , may have been drunk . She said he was disoriented , he was panicky , he was talking really fast and hung up hmm , I'm assuming it was ted .
I assume so too , because they were close and he had given her advice , so perhaps he had done something , or he just needed her advice because she said like he was maybe in the back of her mind , but she hadn't seen him in a while , since , like a christmas party that they went to- right and I think like that's like any old co-worker I used to work at old
starbridge village and there are people who I definitely think about from time to time , but I don't talk to them all the time the last victim I'm gonna talk about for today and we're gonna have to wait for a part three .
Everybody , I know everybody's excited so the last victim we're going to talk about today , her name is I think it's Karen , it's C-A-R-Y-N . Karen Karen , yeah , yeah , yeah , campbell . Karen Campbell , she was 23 . She died January 12th 1975 . Campbell was heading to her hotel room in Aspen when she disappeared . Her body was found naked and beaten next to a road .
So I don't know why this one just tugs at my heartstrings . She was young , but she was engaged to an older male , okay , who was a doctor , he was a cardiologist , okay , and he had two children of his own from a previous relationship . Okay , and she basically just all she wanted to do was get married .
She wanted to start her life right and he her , her fiance at the time was attending this cardiologist convention in Aspen . So she's like great , let me and the kids go , we'll go skiing while you're at seminars . So they all get together together that night for dinner and she's not feeling well , everyone's having a cocktail .
She's like , oh , I'm just gonna have my stew and a glass of milk and a glass of milk .
So they all end up hanging out afterwards and like , kind of , like the lounge lobby area and the kids are doing their thing , he has a newspaper and she's like you know I'm gonna go upstairs and get that magazine I want to look at and she has the only key to the room , okay .
So supposedly she goes upstairs , she's seen , uh , she talks to a couple other doctors that she had met and goes right up to the room . She's taking forever . He's like why something that should take her 10 minutes ? Why is she gone this ?
right right and I guess , as she had talked to those doctors , she never even made it back to the room because her husband got concerned he's like I know she wasn't feeling well , or her fiance , I should say right so he went back to see if she was okay , went back to the room because , like the kids are getting arrested he couldn't get in because she's the
only king correct . So he's knocking , waiting for her to maybe come out of the bathroom . The lobby person that let him in , exactly so he finally has . So he's like , oh my god , maybe she fainted and the magazine is in there . But she's not right . Magazines in there , nothing's tussled , everything is the way it is .
He must have grabbed her or something either , because there was no sounds heard , so she must have . Ted must have said something right .
She went with him to do something , to help with something that's obviously his mo but like , why was he at this hotel , the skiing one ? yeah , that seems kind of cardiologist convention . That's very different than yes , unless he was casing someone else and the opportunity presented itself .
Right , maybe because he goes after younger women who seem to be in their studious phase . I almost feel like for him he likes to be the head honcho , like he likes to be the guy who knows all the stuff . Yeah , so I don't think he would go for a woman who was a cardiologist or who was a doctor , unless he was casing her the whole time .
I mean , and then there's that , right . He also . That was his first flip out of the 17 , 16 , 17 range , because the last few were 16 , 17 and then he went back up to 23 .
I think she was the oldest . We had a couple 22-year-olds , I think A 17-year-old , a couple 16 , yeah , 16 to 17 , something like that . I really focused on the victims this time and I know I still have a couple more to go , but I think telling their story is just as important as explaining Ted's , if not more , if not more right , absolutely .
It's definitely a hard thing to swallow . I think hearing everything .
Yeah , yeah , I think it's so easy to have like a list of names , but hearing what their stories are and I don't know , I think it's because September 11th just passed , yeah , but you have walls with their list of names of the victims of that day , but if you hear their stories , it just makes it so much more impactful and sad .
Yeah , and talking about that sprawl again , too , of like how many people were actually his victims , directly or indirectly , every person who something traumatic happened to . They have their whole family , their friend group , the people who are near them . I mean he really impacted overall a lot of people , a lot of people . Yeah Well , thank you Hannah .
I look forward to part three .
Do you want to do your ?
state card test . Oh yes , pick a card , any card . I'm filling in for Rob here . I'm not going to do it the right way , but pick a card , any card , all right .
All right , I have the Five of Clubs and this is Kevin Heath or Kevin , it's K-E-I-V-A-N . On May 29 , 2016, . The victim attended a Memorial Day party at 8 Needham Road Inland Field . During the party , a fight broke out in a crowded room of the house when the victim was shot . If you have any info about this case , please call 1-855-MA-SOLVE .
That was a more recent one .
So sad it really is , especially when there's that many people there , right , right it makes you wonder about what kind of happened if it was a bigger .
I don't know much about linfield , but is anybody known ? I think it must be I don't know .
I just feel like we're just so far west . Yeah , everything is , they say we're the dragons let see , I'll look up where Linfield is .
Let's see . It sounds like it would be out that way . It says Linfield is about an hour and 46 minutes from here . It is sort of near the Boston area . It's kind of near like it's between like Lawrence and Boston , you know kind of southeast Okay , so it's over there .
Um , it's kind of closer to salem , actually in peabody , oh okay , so it's out in that kind of area . So , yeah , definitely more city , more city than what we're used to yeah bigger house party ? I guess yeah , to me a house party from the berkshires is like six people , you know in your living room . So you would definitely know .
But if anybody knows anything for Kevin , just call the number .
Yes , please Well . Thank you , Wanderers , for dealing with my tight obsession and being on this journey . Cannot wait to do part three . Me too , I'm really looking forward to it .
I really want to buy the book , but I'm like I can't buy the book until after Hannah's done , because then I'll be like wanting to say things and I'll be ahead for sure . So I'll buy the book after Hannah is done with her 13 million part .
It's a good book . I'm thinking of buying every Anne Rule book she's written . Has she written other things too ?
Yeah , Do you have any of those titles ? No , I do not . Okay , well , I'm going to look that up too , because I think that she sounds like a really cool author based on her perspective , I do enjoy her Awesome . Well , bye Wanderers , it's been fun .
Bye . Thanks for listening today . Wicked Wanderings is hosted by me , hannah , and it's produced by Rob Fitzpatrick , music by Sasha N . If you enjoyed today's episode , don't forget to leave a rating and review and be sure to follow on all socials . You can find the links down in the show notes .
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